Mfg Home electrical panel
posted on November 18, 2009 05:30:33 pm
Did inspection on mfg home today and in electrical panel found main ground wire bonded to neutrals??? nothing to grounds and was not bonded togeather. Was not sure what to do so said I would follow up about this. In the picture the ground wire is at bottom and feeds to the right and is on the netural bar. Len Couey

neutral at a/c disconnect
posted on November 18, 2009 09:07:21 am
This house has a panel downstream of the service entrance being used as the service disconnect for the air conditoner condensers. The disconnect switches in this panel are also the over current protection for the a/c units (two properly sized circuit breakers). There is another larger circuit breaker at the se panel that provides the protection for this panel. I know that here typically is no neutral for 240 branches for a/c units. My question is, with this panel being used not only as a service disconnect but also over current protection, should the neutral feed from the se panel be connected to an isolated bus? With the overcurrent protection, does the panel at this point become a "sub-panel" (sorry Jerry) requiring four wire service? They have cut the neutral off and taped it up, see photo below.

Question RE: UL 489
posted on November 17, 2009 11:43:22 pm
*The UL 489 Standard allows for two types of ratings. Standard circuit breakers cannot exceed a maximum of 50°C temperature rise at the wire terminal connection at 100%current in 40°C open air. 100% rated circuit breakers may have a temperature rise of 60°C at the wire terminal connection in the smallest allowable enclosure if the circuit breakers are connected with wire rated at 90°C wiring insulation sized to the 75°C chart * Just wondering when they speak of "rise", are they referring to the CB being at a 40 degree C exterior ambient temp and then allowing a 50 degree C rise?

Tamper Resistant Receptacles
posted on November 17, 2009 08:07:33 pm
I know we discussed this in another thread recently, But I have recently come across the facts from the expert who helped write the section of code being discussed. I wanted to pass this information along so we all can continue to learn:) There seems to be some confusion as to where tamper resistant receptacles are required bt the NEC. Some are under the impression that tamper resistant receptacles are not required in cabinets , like those for microwaves, dishwasher, and disposals, and they are not required on receptacles over 5 1/2' off the floor like the garage door operator outlet. In this months IAEI ( International Association of Electrical Inspectors) magazine this topic is discussed in the "Focus on the Code" section. A person wrote in asking about Tamper Resistant receptacles in a soffit, in cabinets and garage door openers. This is the abridged version,( I will scan it and post the article later this week) The Bold print is direct quotes from the article's writer, underlining is mine. Tamper Resistant receptacles are required in All areas specified in article 210.52. *" This language clearly indicates that all receptacles in the areas specified in 210.52 are required to be tamper resistant.This includes those receptacles specifically required by 210.52 as well as _any other receptacles installed in those areas "_* This includes those installed in cabinets and those over 5 1/2' off the floor. Article 210.52 address's AREAS of the home not specific receptacles. "*Garbage disposals, microwaves, and diswashers are in a kitchen which are mentioned in article 210.52(B) must be tamper resistant."* *"soffits are covered by 210.52(E) Outdoors or by 210.52(A) General* *"Garages are covered under 210.52 (G) so the garage door opener receptacleis required to be tamper resistant as are other receptacles installed in the garage"* *"The only receptacles that could possibly be a non-Tamper Resistant are those installed in dedicated mechanical rooms or attics as these rooms are areas not covered by 210.52 unless they are also considered to be habitable rooms of the types listed in 210.52 (A)"* The person who wrote the article and who I directly quoted is: Tim Owens. Mr Owens sits on Code Making Panel 18. Code making Panel 18 is the Panel that wrote article 406 . So there we have it from the "horses Mouth", the expert who Knows the intent of the code making panel and where tamper resistant receptacles are to be installed. The issue of " not required in a cabinet, or over 5 1/2' off the floor" is wrong as they ARE required in those locations.

Doorbell tranformer
posted on November 17, 2009 08:04:13 am
Does anyone know if a doorbell transformer can be on the inside of an electrical panel? It is common to see then on the outside, but I ran across one bolted to the inside the other day.

Service Conduit With Expansion Fitting
posted on November 16, 2009 10:36:33 pm
This is obviously less than 6 feet in lenght. However, it is subject to extreme temperature changes. Do you recommend an expansion fitting. It appears there has been previous movement along the joint.

Did a little arc welding today
posted on November 16, 2009 07:22:49 pm
Tapped the panel before I touched it. OK Started taking out the screws. Got to the middle one and ZAAPPPPP! After I took off the cover I saw a wire was pinched between the screw and the side of the panel and the insulation was worn thru. Fun times.

Cutler Hammer cross reference
posted on November 15, 2009 11:44:32 pm
Finally found something that clears up one question - Can Cutler Hammer BR breakers be used in the older panels? These letters from the UL say YES! :) This one is a letter from UL: http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcS...=1016115403174 (http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&&dDocName=1016115403174) This one if a cross reference for larger breakers: http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcS...=1060734795662 (http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&&dDocName=1060734795662) This document is a cross reference chart: http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcS...=1081453631966 (http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&&dDocName=1081453631966) I know, I know, it can't be that simple. There's still questions like this one below - the Seimens breaker in this Cutler panel. This is new construction and was supposedly inspected and approved. The label says use only CH breakers. Go figure. :confused: They say warranty is void with that other breaker, but on their website, they say the AHJ has the final say. Does that mean there is a warranty after all? :confused::confused: The last pic is of a panel that I think the UL says is OK, a 1958 Westinghouse panel with a new CH BR series breaker.

AFCI breaker new 2006
posted on November 15, 2009 03:22:10 pm
Does anyone out there if you can still install AFCI breakers, such as one that was new in 2006, and never been installed. There are electrician out there that haven't used up there stock.

Need some info for this panel.
posted on November 13, 2009 09:31:31 pm
Ran into this yesterday but have never seen this before. This serves 2 panels in the garage both 100A each side by side. I assume they are the SEPs. Any idea are the other center two sets of conductors are for? There were only the two panels on the property.

SEC back into the meter panel?
posted on November 13, 2009 03:07:00 pm
Whole house electrical FUBAR! Power comes out of the meter on #2 CU and feeds new panel. Then goes back into the meter (which has no tamper seal) on #2 CU. I think it is spliced to #4 ALU inside the meter which goes to the original main panel inside the house. As I said everything else is wrong, how wrong is this part?