I'm a celebrity!

[Jim Luttrall]

I was called for a phone interview from someone from Angie's List since they got my name from reading information here at IN about CSST.
While we spoke for quite a while, the article seems pretty close to what I said.
Autographs available for a fee.:D

I hope this link works since the magazine is a subscription for members only.
Angie's List Magazine (http://magazine.angieslist.com/story/special-report_flexible-gas-lines-bear-inspection)

[Gunnar Alquist]

Jim,

I am having a bit of difficulty cutting my penny in half, but as soon as I do, I will get it in the mail. Hope I am not overpaying for your autograph. :cool:

[Gunnar Alquist]

Jim,

The link worked for me. I had a good laugh at this comment, it's a load of crap:

"Manufacturers require training before a contractor can buy CSST, but Tim Scanlan, general counsel with one of the largest CSST makers, Omega Flex, said the certificate doesn’t prove the person is qualified to install CSST. It only indicates they’ve been trained. “The jurisdictions, the local municipalities and the states are going to require that people have certain credentials to perform that work,” he says. “It’s not the manufacturer’s job to make sure the person buying the product and putting it in knows what he’s doing. Ultimately, someone has to enforce those rules and the states have those rules. We can’t do it. The state does because they look at every installation.”"

Not the manufacturer's job? No, their job is to sell it until it is found to be faulty and then disclaim all responsibility and blame the installers, who were inadequately trained by the manufacturer to begin with.

Sheesh.

I also liked your comment about wood not passing muster today. I disagreed, but I laughed.

[Jerry Peck]

Jim,

The link worked for me. I had a good laugh at this comment, it's a load of crap:

"Manufacturers require training before a contractor can buy CSST, but Tim Scanlan, general counsel with one of the largest CSST makers, Omega Flex, said the certificate doesn’t prove the person is qualified to install CSST. It only indicates they’ve been trained. "

What a joke.

The FIRST (yes, *FIRST*) section in the Design and Installation Instructions manual states:

(bold is theirs, red text is mine)

SECTION 1.0 — USER WARNINGS

The TracPipe® gas piping material (CSST Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing ) must only be installed by a qualified person who has been trained or otherwise qualified through the TracPipe Gas Piping Installation Program. Any installer must also meet qualifications in accordance with state and/or local requirements as established by the administrative authority which enforces the plumbing or mechanical code where the gas piping is installed.

Right there, "or otherwise QUALIFIED through the TracPipe Gas Piping Installation Program."

Good work, Jim.

To bad no one caught them in that lie 'we train them, but that does not mean they are qualified' versus 'they get qualified through our training program' - Huh? It one or the other, OmegaFlex can't have it both ways.

[Richard Mobley]

I would like to know more about what to look for in a CSST installation being properly grounded and bonded. Does anybody have any links or photos to share? Is it the same system as used with black iron or is it different?

Thanks
Richard

[Jim Luttrall]

Here is the NAHB paper on CSST http://www.toolbase.org/pdf/techinv/csst_lightningconcerns.pdf

Seems to be a pretty good overview if you can look past the propaganda about whose fault it is and no finding of fault, etc.

Lots of other information out there, seems that lots of links were posted here in past threads. Do a google search of the web and here on this site.

[mike huntzinger]

There is a case of a re-roof when they smelled gas a day later, found the gas line to close to the sheathing with a nail in it, no fire but it could have..

[Jim Luttrall]

Yep, there were a couple of cases here in the Dallas area that were covered in the news.
Very likely when you consider the way that CSST from the meter is typically run up through the outside wall and curves gradually at the top plate up close to the bottom side of the decking.
Roofing nails will penetrate right into the CSST if it is too close.
Due to the flexible nature, it could be several inches away when you inspect and then it gets kicked, pushed, etc. Additional protection anywhere there is potential for movement would be a good idea.
Most of what I see has very limited support, goes back to training and proper installation.

[Gunnar Alquist]

What about CSST when it is an addition to an existing black pipe installation? It seems to me that as long as the black pipe is properly bonded, then the CSST addition should be as well. Would this be an accurate assumption?

[Jim Luttrall]

I rarely see iron pipe bonded, but you are iron pipe correctly bonded would satisfy the bonding of the CSST. In fact, that is listed in some of the manufacturers literature.
From Wardflex: http://www.wardflex.com/images/Technical_Bulletin_WF2008.pdf


! The bonding clamp is attached at one point within the piping system to a segment of rigid

pipe or a pipe component such as a nipple, fitting or manifold provided it is manufactured
with an appropriate and Code listed material. The bonding clamp must be attached such that
metal to metal contact is achieved with the steel pipe component. Remove any paint or
applied coating on the pipe surface beneath the clamp. See Figures 1 and 2 for guidance. The
corrugated stainless steel tubing portion of the gas piping system shall not be used as the
point of attachment of the bonding clamp at any location along its length.

[Gunnar Alquist]

I rarely see iron pipe bonded,

I see gas bonded on most of the new stuff and rarely on existing. I still recommend installation/upgrading of bonding.

[JB Thompson]

Does anyone have a picture (they wouldn't mind finding and sharing) of a properly bonded CSST?

I, for one, would be very appreciative.

thanks
Bruce

[Jim Luttrall]

Here is the diagram from the Wardflex manual:

[Gunnar Alquist]

Pretty clear that you cannot actually bond the CSST and that it is necessary to bond a section of hard pipe. I hope the metal-to-metal connection is uninterrupted throughout the system.

[Jerry Peck]

I hope the metal-to-metal connection is uninterrupted throughout the system.


So do I as that metal-to-metal connection is what seals the gas in. :)

[Ted Menelly]

So do I as that metal-to-metal connection is what seals the gas in. :)

The metal to metal connection has to not be interupted? :)

[Jerry Peck]

The metal to metal connection has to not be interupted? :)

When you are using CSST and black iron, even copper, yeah - you have metal-to-metal contact ... or you have a leaking joint. :D

[Ted Menelly]

When you are using CSST and black iron, even copper, yeah - you have metal-to-metal contact ... or you have a leaking joint. :D

What???? Leaks are bad?? You mean I should have been writing up past gas leaks??? What's up with that???

[Mike Schulz]

They have been bonding it here since the last code update. I also recommed to clients before that date to have it installed.

[JB Thompson]

I did a construction inspection and saw the bonding wire near where the gas will come into the house--traced it back to the panel and had me a little skoolin' :)

OK stupid question time: in the future, if I am not able to visually confirm the bond, is there a way to verify with a meter of some sort? Or for an electrician or plumber to verify it?

Bruce

[Jerry Peck]

Use an ohm meter or continuity meter / tester to confirm there is no (very little) resistance / continuity between the gas line and a ground, nearest the gas meter / ground rod is the best place to check, but any place along the gas line where you find a ground nearby will work, however, the resistance will steadily go up the more gas line there is between you and the bonding-to-ground point.

Added with edit on re-reading the above: I am not saying "(very little) ... / continuity", my intent was "(very little) resistance" *or* *have "continuity"*.

[JB Thompson]

thanks