Has Anyone Heard as of Yet?

[Rick Hurst]

Who won the election? :D

Of all the posts today, I don't see one comment about our new President elect Obama.

Whats up with you guys?

Of course my man did not win, but I'll accept that we have a Man that the majority voted for and I wish him all the luck. He is coming into an office with much work ahead of him that is for sure.

I do hope that the people of this country can come together for the better of all.

GO AMERICA!!!!

Rick Hurst

[Jim Luttrall]

Amen, Rick. Big job ahead.
Very thankful we are in a country that has a peaceful transition of power without either party trying to set up a dictatorship.
Those founding fathers were some pretty smart guys.

[Ted Menelly]

What ?

There is going to be a new President? When did that happen?

[Scott Patterson]

It is what it is. I voted Right but it went Left.

One thing I have always told my children is that you might not like the person but you respect the postion that they hold. Funny how this holds true in just about every aspect of life.

[Ted Menelly]

I said it last night. I feel sorry for him. He has way to much going on out there to even concider any of his campaign promises. Anyone to be Pres in this day and age I would feel sorry for. As long as he has something good to me working steadily I will invite him to next Thanksgiving dinner.

God Bless America

[Ron Bibler]

He is going to need all our support. He is our Pres.:cool:

GO USA. GO PRES. OBAMA.

All eyes are on him.:cool:

Best

Ron

[Billy Stephens]

I said it last night. I feel sorry for him. He has way to much going on out there to even concider any of his campaign promises. Anyone to be Pres in this day and age I would feel sorry for. As long as he has something good to me working steadily I will invite him to next Thanksgiving dinner.

God Bless America
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If it makes you feel better " I feel Sorry for You Ted." :D
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*is that you on the left? :)
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[Ted Menelly]

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If it makes you feel better " I feel Sorry for You Ted." :D
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*is that you on the left? :)
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Darn it Billy. You were not suppose to release the family photos yet.

[Jerry Peck]

Of all the posts today, I don't see one comment about our new President elect Obama.

I felt that enough had been said about the election before the election, and that the election said enough for itself, thus, no need to say anything.


I voted Right but it went Left.


Scott,

I voted right and it went right. ;)

Actually, I voted Centrist, and it went Centrist. :D

[Rick Hurst]

Meaning of Centrist for those inquistive minds.

Centrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrist)

[Jack Feldmann]

I'm in a BNI group and we meet Wednesdays at 7:30 am. Only one other person in the group admitted they were Obama supporters. It was kind of quiet this morning.

But I'm used to being on the "other" side, since my main computers are Mac's.

It sounds like he is getting his transition team together. I just hope that Bush does not mess up the next couple of months, and that Obama's team can hit the road running.

[Billy Stephens]

It sounds like he is getting his transition team together. I just hope that Bush does not mess up the next couple of months, and that Obama's team can hit the road running.
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Yeah,

Like not removing all the O's from the Computer key boards. :rolleyes:
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[Gunnar Alquist]

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Like not removing all the O's from the Computer key boards. :rolleyes:.

I think it would be funny if they switched out all of the keys for Ws.

[J. Gonzalez]

Right On! and for the better for the world at large too. I also voted for the other guy. But it didn't happen. But we have some historical moments happening here too. I don't agree with one big issue with our New President Elect, but then the other one didn't have it all together either. Thanks Rick.
Regards!
JohnnyRocket--->
Straight Street Home/Building Inspections:)

[Jack Feldmann]

Refresh my memory, which white house team switch the keys? and was it typewriter keys?

[Scott Patterson]

Refresh my memory, which white house team switch the keys? and was it typewriter keys?

That would be President Billary! :D

Supposedly everyone who had a computer removed the "W" key from their keyboard in the Whitehouse. I think it was around 100 keyboards that were replaced.

[Billy Stephens]

Refresh my memory, which white house team switch the keys? and was it typewriter keys?
......
TRASHING THE WHITE HOUSE WHEN CLINTON'S STAFF LEFT (http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/trashing.htm)
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[Jerry Peck]

Meaning of Centrist for those inquistive minds.

Centrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrist)

Rick,

This is the applicable meaning as I've used it:

"In politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics), centrism usually refers to the political ideal of promoting moderate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderate) policies which land in the middle ground between different political extremes. Most commonly, this is visualized as part of the one-dimensional political spectrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum) of Left-Right politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-Right_politics), with centrism landing in the middle between left-wing politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics) and right-wing politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics)."

As also found here at: centrist - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/centrist)

centrist

one entry found.

Main Entry: cen·trist
Pronunciation: \ˈsen-trist\
Function: noun
Date: 1872
1often capitalized : a member of a center party
2: a person who holds moderate views— cen·trism \-ˌtri-zəm\ noun — centrist adjective

[Jerry Peck]

For those of you who do not read very far past the headlines ... :D

... from the link Billy provided:

The vandalism allegations proved to be a political tale that would not die, despite the absence of any nourishment in the form of new facts. On Jan. 29, Rep. Robert L. Barr Jr. (R-Ga.), one of the first House members to push for Clinton's impeachment, asked the GAO to look into the matter. The GAO's first stop was the General Services Administration, which manages government property. The GSA said in a letter to Barr on March 2 that "the condition of the real property was consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy."

In a letter to Barr on April 27, the GAO said the White House had said there was "no record of damage that may have been deliberately caused by the Clinton administration."

[John Arnold]

There you go again, Jerry. Trying to confuse people with the facts! If there's anything we learned from GWB, it's that we can ignore the facts and create our own reality!

[Billy Stephens]

For those of you who do not read very far past the headlines ... :D

... from the link Billy provided:

The vandalism allegations proved to be a political tale that would not die, despite the absence of any nourishment in the form of new facts. On Jan. 29, Rep. Robert L. Barr Jr. (R-Ga.), one of the first House members to push for Clinton's impeachment, asked the GAO to look into the matter. The GAO's first stop was the General Services Administration, which manages government property. The GSA said in a letter to Barr on March 2 that "the condition of the real property was consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy."

In a letter to Barr on April 27, the GAO said the White House had said there was "no record of damage that may have been deliberately caused by the Clinton administration."
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The Story does continue on past the above "quote " and does portray both sides. ;)
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[Jerry Peck]

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The Story does continue on past the above "quote " and does portray both sides. ;)
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Yes it does, but it also relates to this quote above it:

Clinton administration officials said the size of the list did not measure up to the luridness of the allegations. Former presidential press secretary Joe Lockhart said the vandalism allegations were part of a failed Bush strategy to "make the new administration look good by comparison to the last one."

"If anyone did anything that harmed government property, that's wrong," Lockhart said yesterday. "But to have suggested there was an organized effort that ran into hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage is grossly wrong and misleading."


Would I, or almost anyone for that matter (especially after seeing his history of misuse of his office) , really suspect that 'W' and his stooges would stoop that low to make themselves look better? YOU BET! IN A HEART BEAT!

:D

Thus, anything he says happened *is suspect*, especially with no paper trail and investigation (and 'W' supporters know that an investigation by him would result in torture to the extent that "confessions" would have been all over the place, yet there were none).

[Jack Feldmann]

True or not, it's pretty funny.
I would bet that there are pranks every time the administration changes.

Got to remember that in January, there are a bunch of people out of jobs. I read a book a while back about a guy that built a boat out of wine corks. Well he was on Clinton's staff, so when he left office, he was out of a job, and went on this project of building this boat. It's a very interesting book, but also brought home the fact that a bunch of people are out of work.

[Billy Stephens]

Yes it does, but it also relates to this quote above it:

Clinton administration officials said the size of the list did not measure up to the luridness of the allegations. Former presidential press secretary Joe Lockhart said the vandalism allegations were part of a failed Bush strategy to "make the new administration look good by comparison to the last one."

"If anyone did anything that harmed government property, that's wrong," Lockhart said yesterday. "But to have suggested there was an organized effort that ran into hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage is grossly wrong and misleading."


Would I, or almost anyone for that matter (especially after seeing his history of misuse of his office) , really suspect that 'W' and his stooges would stoop that low to make themselves look better? YOU BET! IN A HEART BEAT!

:D

Thus, anything he says happened *is suspect*, especially with no paper trail and investigation (and 'W' supporters know that an investigation by him would result in torture to the extent that "confessions" would have been all over the place, yet there were none).
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Quote taken from GOA Report page 48.

One former Clinton administration offical said that he found the reports of keyboards with missing "W' keys to be believable but regrettable and indefensible.

Made it all up to Look Good?

Did Not Keep a Paper Trail on damaged Offices and Materials?

After weeks of Blocked Access to The White House,On Going Court Action, (but the Clinton staff stated as many as 500 people going through was the cause of damage) the very First concerns was to accuse the Previous administration of acting childish by putting glue on desk tops, altering phone lines and damaging keyboards to Look Good ? :confused:

There is more than one River in Egypt (De-Nile. ) :rolleyes:

* hope the new guy can produce that Born In The USA Birth certificate. :)

www.gao.gov/new.items/d02360.pdf

[John Arnold]

* hope the new guy can produce that Born In The USA Birth certificate...

I thought you meant McCain, there, for a second, since he was born in Panama.

[Billy Stephens]

I thought you meant McCain, there, for a second, since he was born in Panama.
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correct:

Admiral McCain was station in Panama on active duty with The United States Navy when John was born.
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[Tony Mount]

I like what my brother said " I think it will be an ObamaNation"

[Jerry Peck]

I like what my brother said " I think it will be an ObamaNation"

Tony,

You need to get your plumbing fixed ... so you will be 'working as intended', until then ... you need to write yourself up. :)

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

stock market down 700 points since election

CHANGE--WHAT CHANGE

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

HEY
speaking of market under dirt--how about my cemetary post

any help

[Bob Harper]

Well, I'm not one of you soft hearted touchy-feely types. I think we proved we're a country of O.J. jurors to buy into this socialist nut. I think he is going to push the most radical leftist socialist issues he can and get his 250,000 man Gestapo/ KGB to do it as he said. He's going after anything and everything with no fear or shame. His speech talked about getting away from the nasty partisanship and childish back-biting so he hires the most radical one minded uncooperative psychotic liberal in Congress as his Chief of Staff. Great start at being partisan....

If you look at the cast of characters he has hung out with, you will see the people who shaped his beliefs and that ought to be enough to scare anyone.

I am not ashamed to say I think we're going to hell in a hand basket. I think the blacks are going to rise up thinking Massa Obama, their new Messiah, will give them all our homes and money and jail anyone who crosses them. Another 40 acres and a mule scheme. I sincerely think we're headed for civil race war, esp. if some crazy red neck tries to pop a cap on him. Biden has already promised us a major international crisis and that we won't agree with his handling of it. The fact all the radical nuts of the world were pulling for him and many provided tons of $$ to his campaign tells you what they think of him.

He has promised so many entitlements, bailouts and buyouts, each starting at $50 billion apiece, if he tries to deliver on 10% of his campaign promises, we will certainly be in a depression. Tranferring wealth to unproductive people is economic suicide, not to mention socialism/ fascism. Oh, he'll go after the first amendment using the "fairness" doctrine. Words like 'fairness' an 'share' are socialist's right hand tools. He will go after guns and the NRA by taxing guns out of reach for all but Bill Gates then later confiscate all guns using his 250,000 man Gestapo. The White House will become the new Kremlin West.

I'll spare you the rest but you see my attitude towards this maniac. We're screwed.

[Jack Feldmann]

Nice to know we have some racists here on the forum.

BY the way, in case anyone still believes that birth certificate crap, they should look at Snopes. They will find that Obama was born in Hawaii, and it was the 50th State at the time.

I was talking to my financial planner today asking about the stock market and what the election had to do with it. By the way, he is a big McCain fan. Anyway, his opinion was the dip was the result of several layoff announcements, and not the election yet.

[Richard Moore]

Well, I'm not one of you soft hearted touchy-feely types. I think we proved we're a country of O.J. jurors to buy into this socialist nut. I think he is going to push the most radical leftist socialist issues he can and get his 250,000 man Gestapo/ KGB to do it as he said. He's going after anything and everything with no fear or shame. His speech talked about getting away from the nasty partisanship and childish back-biting so he hires the most radical one minded uncooperative psychotic liberal in Congress as his Chief of Staff. Great start at being partisan....

If you look at the cast of characters he has hung out with, you will see the people who shaped his beliefs and that ought to be enough to scare anyone.

I am not ashamed to say I think we're going to hell in a hand basket. I think the blacks are going to rise up thinking Massa Obama, their new Messiah, will give them all our homes and money and jail anyone who crosses them. Another 40 acres and a mule scheme. I sincerely think we're headed for civil race war, esp. if some crazy red neck tries to pop a cap on him. Biden has already promised us a major international crisis and that we won't agree with his handling of it. The fact all the radical nuts of the world were pulling for him and many provided tons of $$ to his campaign tells you what they think of him.

He has promised so many entitlements, bailouts and buyouts, each starting at $50 billion apiece, if he tries to deliver on 10% of his campaign promises, we will certainly be in a depression. Tranferring wealth to unproductive people is economic suicide, not to mention socialism/ fascism. Oh, he'll go after the first amendment using the "fairness" doctrine. Words like 'fairness' an 'share' are socialist's right hand tools. He will go after guns and the NRA by taxing guns out of reach for all but Bill Gates then later confiscate all guns using his 250,000 man Gestapo. The White House will become the new Kremlin West.

I'll spare you the rest but you see my attitude towards this maniac. We're screwed.
I really wanted to stay out of this, but that has to be the most overtly racist and bigoted post I've ever seen in this forum.

"I am not ashamed to say...etc, etc" Damn...I would be!

Bob, how is it that you self-proclaimed super-patriots can't get your heads around the single most important thing that actually makes this country great? I'm talking about DEMOCRACY!!! You want truly Un-American, Bob? It's preaching hatred and not accepting the will of the electorate just because, this time, you didn't get your personal preference. You do realize that the country will get to vote again? Try reading the constitution, slowly. It's a great document but it doesn't work if people don't agree to follow the whole thing and not just their favorite bits.

Sorry everyone else...rant over.

[Ron Bibler]

Thanks Richard. Lunch is on you!!! L.O.L.

Never invite a FAT man to Dinner. More, More, More.


Best

Ron

[Richard Moore]

Sorry Ron, I screwed up the names. I did see your post and liked it. I have edited mine.

If you want to delete that last, I can delete this.

Once again, my apologies.

[Billy Stephens]

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BY the way, in case anyone still believes that birth certificate crap, they should look at Snopes. They will find that Obama was born in Hawaii, and it was the 50th State at the time.
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Snopes? ( National Inquirer of the web.)
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Mr. Obama ( Now President Elect) was asked to produce this Document several months ago and could have stopped the speculation but refused to respond.
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The Election is over the Majority have Voted ( for change? ) don't start Wailing when you get what you Voted for. :)

*keeping head down & hand on wallet. ( mental note need new mattress with deposit slot.) :D

[Jack Feldmann]

Billy,
I'm not sure if you bothered to actually read what Snopes had to say.
1. FALSE
2. I know there were a lot of words, and it would have taken a while to read, but near the bottom it said that Obama submitted it in 2008.

The thing that is crazy about this rumor stuff, is that don't you think the national media would have picked up on something like this instead of the Rush types that like to take innuendo and run with it.

I thought that one of the classiest things McCain did during the campaign was when he was at a rally, and a woman in the crowd started going on about how Obama was a muslim, McCain corrected the woman and told her that Obama was not a muslim.

Of course, I wonder how the many muslim Americans thought about having their faith called a dirty word.

Snopes? ( National Inquirer of the web.) Maybe I missed something, but I thought that Snopes was the place to go to find out if things had basis or fact, or they were false.

[John Arnold]

Billy,
I'm not sure if you bothered to actually read what Snopes had to say.
1. FALSE
2. I know there were a lot of words, and it would have taken a while to read, but near the bottom it said that Obama submitted it in 2008.

The thing that is crazy about this rumor stuff, is that don't you think the national media would have picked up on something like this instead of the Rush types that like to take innuendo and run with it.

I thought that one of the classiest things McCain did during the campaign was when he was at a rally, and a woman in the crowd started going on about how Obama was a muslim, McCain corrected the woman and told her that Obama was not a muslim.

Of course, I wonder how the many muslim Americans thought about having their faith called a dirty word.

Snopes? ( National Inquirer of the web.) Maybe I missed something, but I thought that Snopes was the place to go to find out if things had basis or fact, or they were false.

I think what the woman actually said was "Arab", but it amounts to the same thing. As if there is something wrong with being an Arab. Say, don't we buy a lot of our oil from Arabs? Say, isn't that George W. Bush holding hands with the King of Saudi Arabia? No doubt this ignorant woman thinks we are at war with all Arabs.
Did anyone see Colin Powell on tv talking about this and describing the mother mourning her son who died fighting for the good old USA. He was a Muslim! Bigotry and racism are alive and well in our country and one of the unintended consequences of Obama's election is that the racism deniers are going to now say "See? ONE OF THEM got elected president, so quit complaining, there's no longer any such thing as racial discrimination!"

As for birth certificates, I can't remember ... when did GWB produce proof he was born in Texas?

[Billy Stephens]

Come On Guys,

It's a New Day.

Bush is on his way out, ( although ) he will continue to be the Goat when things are not " Shaping Up, Change Will Take Time, The Previous Failed Administration, The New Puppy Ate the ( Ain't it great Change Legislation.) If only that ole Bush hadn't of We could Move This nation forward." :rolleyes:

Just saw Madam Speaker on the tube with the Three Big Us Auto Makers, the first of many to hold their hands out ( looking for a Bailout,using our Tax Dollars.) :eek:

[John Arnold]

For those of you non-Obama-haters, here's a great website. Takes a little time to load, but it's worth it. Click on individual papers.

Obama Grabs Headlines (http://obama2008.s3.amazonaws.com/headlines.html)

[Tony Infelise]

I was talking to my financial planner today asking about the stock market and what the election had to do with it. By the way, he is a big McCain fan. Anyway, his opinion was the dip was the result of several layoff announcements, and not the election yet.

You should be talking to you planner about this.
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts (http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=5081)

[Bob Harper]

What did I say that was racist? I am vehemently against racism. I have worked hard to break down the barriers and help everyone I grew up with do the same. I felt bad about those first black kids to were forced to attend my school back in the 60s, scared to death. Within one year, my best friend was a black. I spent 13 yrs as a paramedic saving the lives of countless blacks who got all the compassion and care as anybody else, which was quite a lot. You don't know me so don't put labels on me!

I was merely pointing out what I see as a sad eventuality based upon responses from the blacks around here and in the news. I sure as heck don't wish for it or condone it but I think it's going to get ugly. I do think more idiots (read--idiots) will plot to shoot Obama, as they already have. Again, idiots, not me. I think when you have large groups of blacks dancing in the streets proclaiming Obama to be the next Lincoln, there will be strife. We will go through a long period of civil unrest at best and possibly race war because a large number of blacks are chanting that Obama is going to give them new homes and all our money. That is not the road to peace and prosperity. When it finally hits them how all of this socialism is actually enslaving them to the liberals, they will see Obama, not as a Messiah but a thief in the night. I don't think Obama is going to be healthy for our country and he certainly is not going to be healthy for the black community in the long run.

You know, racism goes both ways. Do you have a few hours for me to describe all the experiences I have with reverse discrimination? Still, I look the other way. However, if it gets to talk about 'reparations for the slaves', who btw are all long dead and buried, I would point out FDRs New Deal, LBJs Great Society, and Clinton's Community Reimbursement Act as just a few forms they have already received.

If you cannot discern the difference btw someones core beliefs and them prognosticating then I cannot help you.

Take your labels and go pound sand.

[Jack Feldmann]

"I am not ashamed to say I think we're going to hell in a hand basket. I think the blacks are going to rise up thinking Massa Obama, their new Messiah, will give them all our homes and money and jail anyone who crosses them. Another 40 acres and a mule scheme. I sincerely think we're headed for civil race war, ......... "

New label: Racist in denial.

[Bob Harper]

Jack, are you really that dense? You cannot differentiate btw making predictions verses preaching hate?

For the record for all you knee jerks: I do not support racism of any kind-period! I do not condone bias towards or against any one group because of their race or skin color.

A sportscaster predicts who will win or lose a game so that makes him for or against those teams? That's what you're trying to apply here.

I'm not hoping for these events-- pray things go smoothly and I earnest pray Obama does a great job getting this country stable and secure. However, being pessimistic based upon events and things I am hearing and personally seeing does not make me a racist. No, to you, a racist is anyone who does not love, embrace and support Obama.

Jack, let me ask you for your assessment of our future: given the promises Obama has made and the expectations voiced by the black community, do you forsee this as making for more peaceful, cooperative times btw blacks and non-blacks? Just yes or no.

[Michael Thomas]

Suppose they gave a race war, and nobody came?

-----------

Above all else, I find comments like Bob's puzzling.

In the last week before the election I carpetbagged myself down to Indiana (Illinois being such a blue state) and spent several days canvassing for Obama, mostly in low-income areas that were 50-80 African-American.

I encountered an enormous amount of pride in Obama's having gotten as far as he had, but one of the things that struck me most strongly was precisely the lack of belief in Obama as some kind of “Messiah” either for the country in general or for American blacks in particular.

American blacks aren't idiots - they are American voters - and like other American voters they've seen plenty of politicians - both black and white - in action. So they have a heavy dose of skepticism about what any politician can achieve, and about how accurately even a highly successful politician will reflect the beliefs and desires of the people who elected them once they get their backside into a comfortable chair in Washington.

They aren't counting on a massive confiscation of Whitey's property and a deluge of dollars from Washington, to the extent they're hopeful the politicians can do anything at all to improve their position they are hopeful about many of the same things as a lot of other struggling Americans, “I got a job, but I don't have healthcare”, “I'm really worried about the school my children are attending”, that sort of stuff.

Of course, you've got black politicians and political groups that push for “reparations”, and it hitch their wagon to eternal “affirmative-action”,carry-on about ongoing discrimination, and so on.

But one thing that was very clear to me - and this was a common topic of discussion amongst the lower level campaign staff I got to meet - was that Obama is about the worst thing that ever happened to the Jesse Jackson style 'Entitlement” politician - it's a lot harder to claim that Marion County Indiana is somehow still part of the antebellum South when you have a black man sitting in the Oval Office, especially if it's a black man who availed himself of many opportunities - starting with respect for education - that are disdained in some of the same parts of the African-American community.

As for “Race War”, and the folks over on free Republic.com ranting about organizing militias to protect themselves, in my view that's just crazy and absurd, and to believe that these are even remote possibilities just means that you're not paying attention, or that you only paying attention to the more extreme right-wing media.

Based on what I saw there was only one potential for even brief violent disruption of America associated with the Obama campaign, and that would've been his assassination - we've already seen that his election was not - as some predicted - the cause of civil unrest, and while you can't prove a negative nothing I saw in Indiana or experienced here in Chicago has given me reason to believe that his electoral defeat would've been the cause of massive civil unrest either.

So I just have to shake my head in bemusement at some of the more extreme sorts of fear present in parts of White America... folks, this is just politics as usual.

The conservative movement starting with Ronald Reagan had a good run, it corrected some of the excesses of previous Democratic administrations, it degenerated into ideological posturing and overshoot, it became complacent and sometimes corrupt, drifted further and further from focus on the concerns of typical voters, and now it is losing influence as the pendulum swings.

The Democrats will come to power to address some of those issues, some of their efforts to improve the lives of typical voters will succeed , some will fail. Eventually, the pendulum will swing again as the voters accept the changes that are successful and reject those that are not.

Rinse, and repeat - this is what happens in countries where voters have a reasonably large measure of influence on how they're governed. It's not atypical, or surprising, nor ought to be frightening, and conservative fears that the Democrats are going to somehow magically extinguish the candle of American constitutional government is no more reasonable or rational than the left-wing fears that Bush and Cheney would never allow the elections to proceed. Perhaps someday we will find fundamental American political freedoms under assault, but neither side in this election was the agent of that kind of change, nor needed to be to achieve success.

As for Obama himself, and the Democratic and Republican parties of the future, I think it's worth noting that Obama would fit comfortably in the moderate wing of the conservative party in the UK which is likely soon to be returned to power - a party that achieved great popularity and success under Margaret Thatcher, crashed and burned in the name of ideological principle, and emerged rebuilt and reengaged with the voters not as a party attempting to turn the clock back to 1950 but as a party attempting to look ahead to 2050.

The Tories accepted programs such as national healthcare which were anathema to Thatcher's “There is no such thing as 'society', only individuals and families” worldview but which were demanded by voters unwilling to accept that society lacked the ability to protect individuals and families who would play by the rules from bad luck - and conservatives are making their electoral way by asking how to make society more efficient without making it more cruel.

IMO, that's the political challenge of the 21st century: there is wide agreement that some sort of market capitalism is the most efficient engine of economic progress, and there is increasing agreement that some sorts of redistributive programs are necessary underpinning to allow the market work reasonably well for most participants. The question is no longer how to create wealth, but rather how to achieve a degree of redistribution that allows a reasonable level of opportunity to the majority of citizens in the way that least cripples and economic growth. That's a complicated debate, and one that can only be settled by experiment and experience: you try things, some things work out, some things don't, you embrace and improve what does, you discard or radically redesign what does not - always keeping in mind that what works today may not work tomorrow, if only because human beings have an enormous ability to “game the system”.

But as long as the voters retain the ability to elect people to perform the experiments, judge the efforts by their result, and pass their verdict at the ballot box to swing the pendulum one way or the other I'm pretty optimistic about the eventual outcomes and I don't feel a sense of extreme distress when one side or the other has it's sway for the decade or so such swings usually seem to require.

And looking at the current American political scene, I'm pretty confident that's the way things will work out under Obama..

[Ted Menelly]

I also think the black/white thing is a disgrace. No matter what. I have heard from the so called white folk and the so called black folk some pretty rediculaous things. Some whites not voting for Obama because he is black. And then some black folks (multitude) voting for Obama just because he is black. I have also heard from whites about the blacks thinking that they think they are now finally going to get a fair shake and the blacks thinking that now they have one of there own (one of their own?) as President they are finally gpoing to get what they deserve.

As far as a fair shake. We just elected a black American as President. I did n ot vote for him but it had nothing to do with him being black.

What a bunch of crap from the whites and blacks.


I was a forman for a company for a short time when I first moved to Florida. I was told by several blacks that I had my job because I was white. I was also told after questioning the remark and then the conversation turned into the fact because I was white I owed them something. My Grandparents were Italian on my fathers side and came over on the boat. My grandparents on my mothers side was and Irish imigrant father and a cherokee indian mother. I owe no one nothing. That discussion ended as fast as conversations with white folks that I had about the place of the whites and the blacks.

Racism is rampid throughout the world. The world. Not just the US.

If there was never anything mentioned about racism from anyone there would be no racism.

Oh well, just my 2 cents. Do not, and I repeat, do not turn this into I am a racist. I have never been a racist and have not discriminated against anyone until I hear something from someone that makes me become discriminitory, as in, You are white and you owe me something. Or, what are you hangin around with hime for, he is black. Then yes, I can become discriminatory.

Mr President elect is now, or will be, our president. I wish the best for him and hope and pray he does not screw things up worse than what they are. I will respect him for the palne and simple fact that he will be our President. I may like or may not like what he does or does not do.

Lets all keep our fingures crossed and a little hope and even a prayer that he and the rest of the majority Dems don't get out of control.

[Michael Thomas]

(BTW, Obama has consistently opposed reparations targeted to black Americans as least since his Senate run, his stated reason is that they would be divisive.

I'm told, but not bothered to research it, but this has been his position at least since his law school days

If you go back and try and trace the source of the concern that he supports reparations you discover that the argument is always a form of guilt by association: he attended a church where the leadership is supportive of reparations, he had political associates were supportive of reparations, that kind of stuff.).

[Ralph Stakely]

HTTP://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

[Jack Feldmann]

Bob,
A racist to me is someone that uses terms such as " Massa Obama, their new Messiah"

[Billy Stephens]

Bob,
A racist to me is someone that uses terms such as " Massa Obama, their new Messiah"
.
Give It a rest Jack. ;)
.

[Ted Menelly]

Jack

I think in that case he was just repeating as in Messiah. I saw several interviews where folks were referring him as such and terms like our savior.

Not taking sides here at all. Just stating what I did earlier. I am hearing all kinds of crazy stuff from both sides and I am hoping what I hear is from the minority of folks.

I have seen more than I want to of that u tube clip where folks are convinced of what that lady is saying. Like I say, crazy stuff. There are a multitude of folks that were convinced by others where they believe our new President is some kind of Saviour and they will not have to worry about anything anymore. That is pretty sad that people do crap like that.

We now have a new President. Not a new Black President. Or Saviour.

I wish him all the best.

[Brian Thomas]

[quote=Ted Menelly;61731]


If there was never anything mentioned about racism from anyone there would be no racism.

quote]

Tell that to jesse jackson and al sharpton! Those guys get involved with any race issue under the guise that they are fighting racism. When in reality, all they do is promote racism and keep it in the forefront!

[Ted Menelly]

[quote=Ted Menelly;61731]


If there was never anything mentioned about racism from anyone there would be no racism.

quote]

Tell that to jesse jackson and al sharpton! Those guys get involved with any race issue under the guise that they are fighting racism. When in reality, all they do is promote racism and keep it in the forefront!

That is exactly what I am talking about. My point exactly!

[John Arnold]

...If there was never anything mentioned about racism from anyone there would be no racism...

Racism is not caused by talking about it. It has historical and cultural roots, and, if you ask me, is also rooted in human nature.
The only hope we have of exterminating racism and bigotry is by talking about it, not by putting our heads in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist.

[Jack Feldmann]

Billy,
Pot calling the kettle black?

[Jerry Peck]

Jack,

I agree with you on everything you said about Bob H.'s posts and Billy's posts.

Some look in a mirror and see something they are not, then degrade everything they really are, denying that they are what is really looking back at them in the mirror.

[Bob Harper]

Ted wrote,"I think in that case he was just repeating as in Messiah. I saw several interviews where folks were referring him as such and terms like our savior."

Well, at least one person on this list got where I was coming from. I am simply echoing what I have already seen and heard. Go look up the definition of racism in the dictionary.

The "Massah" thing was a reference to the slaves referencing Massah Lincoln and how they viewed him as their savior. I have heard "Massah Obama" used by blacks recently---not my words, theirs.

After the Civil War, slaves were promised 40 acres and a mule. Ever since then, there have been various methods and attempts to provide special treatment to blacks as reparations for slavery. We now have over 50 yrs of civil rights in this country at an enormous cost and some are begining to question when, if ever will the special treatment and entitlements end or has Pandora's box been opened for good. If you think that merely asking the question how much more for how long is racist, then you are utterly hopeless.

I want you all to know I do not appreciate the personal attacks on me here. If you disagree with my prognostications, then, by all means say so. However, to imply or extrapolate racism out of my predictions is simply fantasy. Apparently, you all are in a big hurry to bash someone or else your own consciences are gnawing at you so you feel the need to assert how politically correct you are. You make my point how the right to free speech is being curbed. You distort the truth into something convenient to you. Just like the media: "don't the the truth get in the way of a good story".

Just in case you bottom feeders still don't get it, by truth here, I am referring to my observations of others. I don't claim these to be my wishes. Inspectors don't always like what they report but if they are doing their jobs, then the truth is simply stating facts about their observations. Apparently, most of you have a problem with that.

Out of here,
Bob

[Jerry Peck]

Just in case you bottom feeders

Now we are "bottom feeders"?


Out of here,
Bob

Bob,

Is that "Out of here" permanently because of this, or an "Out of here" on this issue?

[Jack Feldmann]

Jerry,
I would reply to Bob, but he's out of here, so he doesn't care.

Just between the two of us, I can't say that I have heard any people use the word Massa in a long time. Come to think of it, I think the only time I did hear it was from a white person making racist comments to or about blacks.

Well, since Bob is out of here, there doesn't seem to be much use in going further with this.

Bottom feeder? Don't get the connection....
See ya
JF

[Billy Stephens]

Billy,
Pot calling the kettle black?
.
Maybe you just like to Stir the Pot?
.
If only a fraction of what has been Said about Bush on this Site was directed at President (Elect) Obama I could could only Imagine the " Outrage!" :rolleyes:

Can't have it both ways fellows ( Demonize one and dare not make a peep about the other.)

It's part of the Job Description as President (as long as we still have freedom of speech.)

You can not Govern All The People if every criticism is turn into "The Race Card" rebuttal.

[Ted Menelly]

Bush? Who's Bush? What's a Bush? Bush where?

The worse 8 years we ever had. Ah, not! As if Bush was to blame for all this mess.

All those wonderful schmucks were the problem with the economic turned down.

I did not hear anyone complain for all the work they had over 8 years.

[Billy Stephens]

Jack,

I agree with you on everything you said about------- Billy's posts.

Some look in a mirror and see something they are not, then degrade everything they really are, denying that they are what is really looking back at them in the mirror.
.
I see very well Thank You. ( as long as I have my bifocals on.) :)

Don't even fell like a Grandpa in the AM. ( after that first cup of coffee and an Aleive.)

Hopefully ( someday) we may speak about denial and what is really looking back (and in).;)

[Mike Schulz]

Bob, I for one hope you don't go away. I for one also think you are the only one with the balls to say what he truly feels about the situation.

Calling someone a racist because of a few choice words is beyond me, you guy's need to lighten up. If you really want to speak about racism think about this:
It has been edited to remove words that I am sure some of you would of barked back.



I have been wondering about why Whites are racists, and no other race is.
Proud to be White
Michael Richards makes his point...

Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.

This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act.
He makes some very interesting points...


You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You have Yom Hashoah.
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi. You have the NAACP. You have BET...
If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists
If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.

Wonder who pays for that??

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships...You know we'd be racists.

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US .

Yet if there were 'White colleges' That would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.

If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it.

But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.


I am proud...But you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists??

There is nothing improper about this e-mail..
Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on.
I sadly don't think many will. That's why we have lost most of OUR RIGHTS
In this country. We won't stand up for ourselves !
BE PROUD TO BE WHITE !
It's not a crime yet, but getting real close!


I know now some of you are going to think I am a racist for posting this and I am not but so be it............

One more thing, I do hope Obama does well. We really need it now. We are on a hair trigger and the wrong move will be disastrous. Here is one move I think he is going to mess up.
Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video of Obama, coal bankruptcy (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/03/video-of-obama-coal-bankruptcy/)

[Jim Robinson]

Another urban legend. I don't think he ever even had to appear in court.

snopes.com: Michael Richards - Proud to be White (http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proudwhite.asp)

I don't think Bob's comments were particularly racist, but the prediction of a race and/or civil war was a little over the top, in my opinion. We've had black governors, mayors, senators, and judges for a long time, and the sky didn't fall down.

I do get a kick out of the increase in gun sales. If I was a gun or ammo manufacturer, I would be fanning the flames of the rumor mill. The president can send legislation, but cannot pass it. I highly doubt that a significant gun control bill is even on the agenda, because it ends up being a waste of time and energy What was the last significant gun control measure, the Brady Bill? It didn't end up making much difference in gun ownership, as far as I could see. I don't imagine the government has time to even start thinking about a serious gun control bill at this point in time.

And of course racism isn't limited to whites. It happens all the time in border states where native hispanics are very intolerant of illegals or new immigrants. Lots of whites just lump them all together, but amongst themselves it is a different picture. It happened quite a bit between various European ethnic groups in the earlier parts of the last century, again based on new entrants into America "stealing jobs". If your visit parts of Europe, you will see widespread dislike of Gypsys, who look the same visually as the majority of their counter parts. Northern Ireland is another area where protestants (mainly from Brittain) and Catholics (mainly from Ireland) have been in conflict for almost 100 years.

Iraq, Rwanda, Darfur and other problem areas are based on ancient tribal conflicts, which is just another version of racism. Humans by nature are tribal, and want to belong to a group. It can be a street gang, fans of a pro sports team, or even an internet forum, and all points in between. One common aspect is that our group is better than the other groups.

Also, I'm not sure I have ever heard someone freely admit that they "were" racist. It's something that a lot of people have been accused of, but almost never admit to. Just a thought.

[J. Gonzalez]

Thanks Jim, What's with some folks about race? Heck, I'm as human as earthlings can get, what's with the color problem? Does someone have an issue with that, Proud to be White? What a small messed up mind. Proud to be an alien earthling period, an E-legal from cyber space. For those stuck on race, go race to another website. End of story...