Deforming vinyl siding

[Ernie Simpson]

I did a consult for a homeowner today. His vinyl siding on the northeast side was all deformed. Normally, this is due to the installer not allowing for movement in the siding (nailing too tight). I popped a piece off and the nailing - at least at this spot - was properly done (the siding was floating). So what the heck is causing this? There is a 3/4 inch thick layer of foam board under the siding with an older clapboard siding under that. The roof is newer. There was no evidence of water penetration through the siding and underlayment, nor was there evidence of excessive moisture levels in the home. No other siding sections showed this. No heat related issues on this side either (it doesn't get much sun). I'm stumped...
Any thoughts on this.

[Michael Thomas]

The way the damage proceeds down along a diagonal and the fact that there is damage to the shutter makes me wonder if something on the ground could have been reflecting concentrated sunlight onto the wall,

[daniel nantell]

Looks like a weiner roast that got out of control -2 logs to many causing the vinyl to relocate.

[Jon Randolph]

I have to go with heat also. Maybe a window reflecting the sun on that side???

[Billy Stephens]

I have to go with heat also. Maybe a window reflecting the sun on that side???
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Like from a Big Ole RV.
* or maybe a school bus driver lived there and The Rig sat outside until The Afternoon Run. :)

[Jay Markanich]

Ernie - there's damage to the windows there too. Ask the owner if he sprayed something on that siding to clean it. Siding cleansers use a lye - maybe he put something on there acidic? Garden chemicals? Bug sprays? Any of that which reacted to the sun? The fact that it is so localized seems to indicate that something got on it or reflected to it, as suggested above.

[Jim Zborowski]

Only two possibilities I can see 1) high heat reflected or flash flame
2) solvent based product applied to diding

[Scott Patterson]

That really looks like reflected heat damage (sunlight) from the neighbors window(s). I have seen it many times and it looks like the photos.

As for that rectangle window in the bathroom, that looks like moisture damage to the frame. Either from the inside or outside.

Finding the cause is not really your job, it is a benefit of your inspection if you can discover it but not really your primary job. If the home next door does not have any windows that face that side of the house, then I would simply report that you don't know what caused it.

Even though you did not see any sunlight being reflected onto the wall during the inspection, that does not mean it is like that all day. Early morning sunlight reflecting can be very hot. Don't forget that at this time of the year the sun is lower on the horizon so it might be seasonal.

[Tom Phillips]

Has there been a fire at the home next door? Looks alot like heat damage to me. Saw a home with that type of damage that had an out building burn down next to it.

[Ernie Simpson]

Thanks all. I think all of the suggestions are possibilities. I'll go over with the owner whether the neighbors driveway (ten or so feet away from this side) has had a bus or large truck stored in it. Also, I'll ask about the chemicals. Reflected sunlight is possible - but why don't we see this more often? Possibly there is just the right angle with the neighbors windows? I need to ask the owner a few more questions....
Ernie Simpson

[Bob Fisher]

Earnie,
I have seen the exact same thing on a deck where a grill was. Heat is the culprit.

[Erby Crofutt]

See the light! (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/building-envelope-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/10311-i-have-finally-seen-light.html)

or

See the Fire! (http://b4uclose.tripod.com/cockamamiephotos/index.album/dont-melt-your-siding?i=35)




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[Joseph P. Hagarty]

Siding is damaged and in need of replacement.

What is the question?

[Jerry Peck]

Siding is damaged and in need of replacement.

That is understood.


What is the question?


Joe,

The question is Why and How? As in Why was the siding damaged, how did it get that way?

Those answers will lead to answering the question or not of 'Should vinyl siding be put back up, or should a different type of siding be put up?'

There is a great need to know Why and How? That is the only way to best help your client understand what needs to be done.

Would it make any sense to replace that heat damaged vinyl siding with new vinyl siding when you can see what caused the first failure and you know there will be a second failure?

The answer is no, that maybe a different type of siding be used on that side of the building, if not all over.

[Joseph P. Hagarty]

The one photo showed an exterior stairway to the side of the damaged siding.

Most likely BBQ Grille damage which is very prevalent in this market area....

[Jerry Peck]

Most likely BBQ Grille damage which is very prevalent in this market area....

Without knowing for sure, are you going to let the seller off the hook and place your client on that same hook over a "Most likely"?

[Joseph P. Hagarty]

Not letting the Seller off the Hook.

My original comment still stands....

"Siding is damaged and in need of replacement."
:)

[Vern Heiler]

Playing the Devel's advocate here! Is the siding not functioning as intended? I don't see a problem with it being an effective rain screen. Though more expensive than paint, it still is cosmetic damage.

Well just looked again and saw the gap at the butt joint. It there were not any gaps, as I see mostly, would it be more than cosmetic?

[Joseph P. Hagarty]

Playing the Devel's advocate here! Is the siding not functioning as intended? I don't see a problem with it being an effective rain screen. Though more expensive than paint, it still is cosmetic damage.

with the open gaps and separations, it is arguable that the siding is functioning as intended unless this is an acceptable manufacturing defect....

not....

[Vern Heiler]

Joseph, you beat me to the punch. I am sitting in the dark while wife watches TV and can't see the keys.:D

[Billy Stephens]

Most likely BBQ Grille damage which is very prevalent in this market area....
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That sure is One Big B.Q. Grill ( e ??? ) is that the two story Model? :D
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[Ted Menelly]

That's funny. I was going to say barbecue myself.

Even if there were not gaps at the joints. It is destroyed and needs replacement.

You don't always know the cause and in the case of a home inspector, if you don't know, oh well. It still needs replacing. Of course that does not mean anyone has to replace it just cause you wrote it up.

[Joseph P. Hagarty]

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That sure is One Big B.Q. Grill ( e ??? ) is that the two story Model? :D
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I have personally seen where a 35,000 BTU grille completely burned the siding off the rear wall of a home.

It is not the size of the grille that determines the damage but the placement in proximity to the siding....

[Vern Heiler]

It is not the size of the grille that determines the damage but the placement in proximity to the siding....[/quote]

Is it inversly proportional to the I.Q. of the user?

[Billy Stephens]

I have personally seen where a 35,000 BTU grille completely burned the siding off the rear wall of a home.

It is not the size of the grille that determines the damage but the placement in proximity to the siding....
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I have seen this as well ( after the Fire Department Released the Scene.) ;)
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btw what is a Grille? :confused:
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[Jim Zborowski]

You have to remember, the major function of siding is aesthetics.
So. if it doesn't look good, it's not performing as intended.

[Mike Schulz]

the major function of siding is aesthetics.

The major function is to shed water and keep the wall assembly dry, aesthetics is built into the design.

For a shutter to warp like that it was heat. Did the neighbors burn there leaves to close to the home?
Does that side face the east or west? West being the worst in the heat of the day.
I have seen this happen from reflection of a window into the inside corner of a wall. It also had foil board substrate. Never seen it on any other type of wall assembly except foil. Have seen grills melt siding though but that has nothing to do with sun or reflective heat from the foil.

[Jerry Peck]

The major function is to shed water and keep the wall assembly dry,

Not vinyl siding.

Vinyl siding is required to have a WRB behind it because everyone KNOWS water will get behind it. It IS NOT designed to be water tight.


aesthetics is built into the design.

And that "design" has been affected, has it not?

Thus, that siding "is not" performing its intended purpose, and that applies to 'both' "intended" purposes:

1) Keeping most of the water off the WRB behind the siding. With it warped like that, that "intended function" just ain't gonna happen.

2) Looking pretty. With it warped like that, it does not look "pretty".

Thus, that siding has failed both of its intended functions. Meaning that siding IS NOT performing its intended function(s).

[Jim Zborowski]

HMMMMM ..........wonder why they make so many styles and colors of siding, maybe it affects their ability to shed water?

[Mike Schulz]

Let me re-word that Jerry because you are correct about Vinyl.

The major function is to shed water, aesthetics is built into the design.


Jim do you really believe that siding is only there to look good?

[Jim Zborowski]

Nope. It's ALSO there for weather protection. However, people agonize over the appearance of it. That explains the color and style choices. Therefore, the appearance is a major function of the siding, particularly since the average buyer doesn't even consider the fact that it provides weather protection, they just want it to look good.Incidentally, if it is severely deformed at the edges, its ability to function as weather protection is most likely compromised as well.

[Mike Schulz]

Jim I agree but you had it backward in your statement.


You have to remember, the major function of siding is aesthetics

Function first (shed water) looks second.

And yes no one is disagreeing that that warped siding should be replaced.

[Jerry Peck]

Jim I agree but you had it backward in your statement.

[quote]You have to remember, the major function of siding is aesthetics


Mike,

Jim didn't have it backward as much as he did just one word off ... ;)

"the major function of siding" should have been "a major function of siding ".

BOTH are 'major functions of siding'.

Just like I say with paint: Paint is not cosmetic, the COLOR of the paint is cosmetic, but the PAINT is not.

Same thing for roof tiles: The roof tiles are not cosmetic, the COLOR and STYLE of the roof tile is cosmetic, but the TILE is not.

[Steve Lowery]

Grille.

I blame all unexplained spellings on the French. I hope they're paying royalties on the ones they use on paper but not in pronounciation.

:D

[Billy Stephens]

----- Grille.....:D
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....
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[Steve Lowery]

Jeez, Billy, how's a guy supposed to get to sleep tonite with that image in mind?:eek:

[Billy Stephens]

Jeez, Billy, how's a guy supposed to get to sleep tonite with that image in mind?:eek:
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.....
.:D