Can a Water heater be in a kitchen area?

[MaMa Mount]

This home is rather old and has a water heater located in the dining area of the kitchen. It is real common in these old houses to see them as such.
The water heater is not located in any type of closet so I am wondering about combustion air issues.
Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?

I understand that the burner chamber could be easily accessed by a child and could lead to injury.

Any help or additional comments would be appreciated.

Mama Mount

[Jim Luttrall]

This home is rather old and has a water heater located in the dining area of the kitchen. It is real common in these old houses to see them as such.
The water heater is not located in any type of closet so I am wondering about combustion air issues.
Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?

I understand that the burner chamber could be easily accessed by a child and could lead to injury.

Any help or additional comments would be appreciated.

Mama Mount
Yes.
depends (but not always required).
No.

[Jerry McCarthy]

Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
Yes, if the area (space) in question contains adequqte cubic footage of combustion air.
Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
No. (see answer above)
Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?
No.

[Billy Stephens]

Can a water heater use combustion air from inside the house?
Yes, if the area (space) in question contains adequqte cubic footage of combustion air.
Should there be combustion air vents on the floor and ceiling?
No. (see answer above)
Can a TPR drain line terminate to the crawlspace?
No.
.
Unless of course It Has it's own Privacy Screen. :D:D:D
.

[John Arnold]

How 'bout the door smacking into it?!

[Rick Hurst]

Across the room, it appears to be a 30 Gal. GE unit.

What? No drain pan either!

rick

[Ted Menelly]

This is one of those matters I always get in trouble on.

Personally I could care less what the code book says on any of that.

For personal safety I do not think a water heater should be IN any room of the home. Unless that room has a closet that the unit can be enclosed in. For safety matters, and none really have to be mentioned here, it should be in an enclosed area with proper combustion air and ventilation.

This of course is my own opinion. Does it fly. Well if I express it well enough to my clients and they install it away from harms and childrens way and doors cannot be bumped into it and the TPR is safely drained to the exterior and there is a drain pan under it and, and, and. After all that they may as well build a closet in the corner.

Just my opinion and I express it strongly to my clients

[Gunnar Alquist]

Across the room, it appears to be a 30 Gal. GE unit. What? No drain pan either! rick

Rick,

I see a flue pipe. But, then again, maybe youse guys in Texas have flue pipes on your electric water heaters. :rolleyes:

[Rick Hurst]

Yeah, whats your point?

GE makes gas WH's.

Maybe you boyz in Cali. have seen too much of the other pipe. :D

rick

[Rick Hurst]

GE brings good things to life.

That includes Gas Water Heaters too!

[Dan Hagman]

If there is a kitchen hood exhaust that vents to the outside and they ran it for a long time it could cause a negative pressure in the kitchen and down draft the water heater vent and allow flue gas into the house.

[Wayne Carlisle]

If there is a kitchen hood exhaust that vents to the outside and they ran it for a long time it could cause a negative pressure in the kitchen and down draft the water heater vent and allow flue gas into the house.


Not in the old houses I've seen. Now maybe the pilot light blowing out from a draft! :)

[Jerry Peck]

On a side issue, I like those 4 locks on that door. Must be a real safe neighborhood? :)

[Ted Menelly]

On a side issue, I like those 4 locks on that door. Must be a real safe neighborhood? :)

Any rental in Texas has to have 2 dead bolts. One cannot be accessed from the outside for security. It is nick named the X dead bolt. I guess that would be for past tannants and x husbands/wifes.

[Dan Hagman]

Not in the old houses I've seen. Now maybe the pilot light blowing out from a draft! :)

If the pilot light is blowing out from the draft , then that means the flu gas is also comining back down when the burner is on. I have seen it before, I agree, it doesn't happen too often in an old house that is open and not very tight. All I was saying is that is could be a possibility. I'm not there to see the situation. The only way to know for sure is to turn on the exhaust fan, water heater and test the draft and test for CO. :)

[Jim Luttrall]

Ted, do you have any more specifics on that?
I have seen a similar requirement when doing section 8 QC inspections, but never on any rentals that were not HUD.
They also accepted the big round plates that blocked the door closed so long as there was no possible access from the outside.
I am wondering what state agency would be requiring anything on rental?

[Ted Menelly]

Ted, do you have any more specifics on that?
I have seen a similar requirement when doing section 8 QC inspections, but never on any rentals that were not HUD.
They also accepted the big round plates that blocked the door closed so long as there was no possible access from the outside.
I am wondering what state agency would be requiring anything on rental?

I will dig it up. I have it some where. I'll get back to you.

[Ted Menelly]

This is not what I was looking for but it should do.



Texas Property Code


Disclaimer
Below is our interpretation of the basics of the Texas Property Code with regard to landlord responsibilities. While our locksmiths ensure property code compliance on a daily basis, we are not lawyers. Since this is the case, you may want to review the full text of Chapter 92 - Residential Tenancies - Texas Property Code (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PR/content/pdf/pr.008.00.000092.00.pdf).

Landlords in Texas are required to follow specific Property Code requirements with regard to "Security Devices" in rental properties. Did you know that your failure to follow the lock laws gives your tenant a free and legal walk-away cancellation of the lease agreement? It also places you in a position of greater liability in case of a break in. Why risk it?

Here are the basics of what you must know and abide by. Please contact us (http://www.rekey.com/contact.htm) if you have any questions.



Upon change of tenants, you have within 7 days of your new tenant moving in to rekey the locks. This expense cannot be passed on to the tenant, even if the tenant agrees. It is illegal to charge tenants for re-keying locks in Texas.

All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed. The garage leading from the inside of your home into the garage is considered an exterior door.

All exterior doors in your rental property must have a door viewer (peep hole) installed.

All sliding patio doors must have a pin lock AND either a locking handle or a charlie bar installed.

Exit doors, such as an upstairs passage door leading to a balcony, are not required to have keyed deadbolts or locking doorknobs, but must have a keyless deadbolt installed.

Other Tips:
Proper Handling of Keys
Property Managers and Landlords should NEVER label keys with the property address. Always use a code or cryptic initials in case the keys are lost or stolen.
Double Cylinder Deadbolts
Double Cylinder Deadbolts, which require a key to open the deadbolt from the inside and exit, can create a fire trap. They are not illegal, but it would be prudent for you to consider the possible liability of a tenant or children trapped inside your dwelling during a fire.
Contact us (http://www.rekey.com/contact.htm) if you have any questions at all about your property or the laws that must be followed when renting residential real estate.

Rekey.com
877-211-5397 (KEYS)
Home (http://www.rekey.com/index.html) | Services (http://www.rekey.com/services.html) | Texas Lock Laws | Contact Us (http://www.rekey.com/contact.html)

[Jerry Peck]

All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed.


Ted,

That is not requiring *two* locks on each door, it is only requiring *one* "keyless deadbolt" on each door.

The door latch is not required (at least not there) to be a "keyed" entrance type. It could only be a "latching" type.

The deadbolt would be providing the security.

[Jim Luttrall]

Thanks Ted,
Here are some of the pertinent sections from the actual code in case anyone wants to see just the sections on security.

Jerry, note sections 2 and 5



Texas Property Code

Sec.A92.153.AASECURITY DEVICES REQUIRED WITHOUT NECESSITY OF
TENANT REQUEST.A (a)AAExcept as provided by Subsections (b), (e),
(f), (g), and (h) and without necessity of request by the tenant, a
dwelling must be equipped with:
(1)AAa window latch on each exterior window of the
dwelling;
(2)AAa doorknob lock or keyed dead bolt on each exterior
door;
(3)AAa sliding door pin lock on each exterior sliding
glass door of the dwelling;
(4)AAa sliding door handle latch or a sliding door
security bar on each exterior sliding glass door of the dwelling;
and
(5)AAa keyless bolting device and a door viewer on each
exterior door of the dwelling.
(b)AAIf the dwelling has French doors, one door of each pair
of French doors must meet the requirements of Subsection (a) and the
other door must have:
(1)AAa keyed dead bolt or keyless bolting device
capable of insertion into the doorjamb above the door and a keyless
bolting device capable of insertion into the floor or threshold,
each with a bolt having a throw of one inch or more; or
(2)AAa bolt installed inside the door and operated from
the edge of the door, capable of insertion into the doorjamb above
the door, and another bolt installed inside the door and operated
from the edge of the door capable of insertion into the floor orSec.A92.154.AAHEIGHT, STRIKE PLATE, AND THROW
REQUIREMENTS--KEYED DEAD BOLT OR KEYLESS BOLTING DEVICE.A (a)AAA
keyed dead bolt or a keyless bolting device required by this
subchapter must be installed at a height:
(1)AAnot lower than 36 inches from the floor; and
(2)AAnot higher than:
(A)AA54 inches from the floor, if installed before
September 1, 1993; or
(B)AA48 inches from the floor, if installed on or
after September 1, 1993.
(b)AAA keyed dead bolt or a keyless bolting device described
in Section 92.151(6)(A) or (B) in a dwelling must:
(1)AAhave a strike plate screwed into the portion of the
doorjamb surface that faces the edge of the door when the door is
closed; or
(2)AAbe installed in a door with a metal doorjamb that
serves as the strike plate.
(c)AAA keyed dead bolt or keyless dead bolt, as described by
Section 92.151(6)(A), installed in a dwelling on or after September
1, 1993, must have a bolt with a throw of not less than one inch.
(d)AAThe requirements of this section do not apply to a keyed
dead bolt or a keyless bolting device in one door of a pair of French
doors that is installed in accordance with the requirements of
Section 92.153(b)(1) or (2).
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 357, Sec. 3, eff. Sept. 1,
1993.
Sec.A92.155.AAHEIGHT REQUIREMENTS--SLIDING DOOR SECURITY
DEVICES.A A sliding door pin lock or sliding door security bar
required by this subchapter must be installed at a height not higher
than:
(1)AA54 inches from the floor, if installed before
September 1, 1993; or
(2)AA48 inches from the floor, if installed on or after
September 1, 1993.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 357, Sec. 3, eff. Sept. 1,
1993.

threshold, each bolt having a throw of three-fourths inch or more.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry, note sections 2 and 5

Texas Property Code

Sec.A92.153.AASECURITY DEVICES REQUIRED WITHOUT NECESSITY OF
TENANT REQUEST.A (a)AAExcept as provided by Subsections (b), (e), (f), (g), and (h) and without necessity of request by the tenant, a dwelling must be equipped with:
(2)AAa doorknob lock or keyed dead bolt on each exterior
door;
(5)AAa keyless bolting device and a door viewer on each
exterior door of the dwelling.


Jim,

Neither requires a keyed entry lockset AND a deadbolt. The deadbolt is suitable by itself.

(2) door knob lock OR keyed dead bolt
(5) a keyless bolting device

[Trent Tarter]

I would recommend a closet be built around it. I would also recommend that minimum clearances be maintained and that vents in ceiling and floor be provided for combustion air. I might also recommend moving it to a better location if there is one.

[Gunnar Alquist]

Yeah, whats your point? GE makes gas WH's. Maybe you boyz in Cali. have seen too much of the other pipe. :D rick

Rick,

My point is that I am an idiot and am unable to read. Somehow, I thought you wrote that you saw an electric water heater. :o

[Rick Hurst]

Gunnar,

Don't feel bad. I got to thinking maybe only Texas and Oklahoma must be receiving gas WH's from GE. :D

I honestly thought for a moment that that you really had never seen a gas WH from GE.

But I know better. :D Maybe.

rick

[Ted Menelly]

This is not what I was looking for but it should do.



Texas Property Code



Disclaimer

Below is our interpretation of the basics of the Texas Property Code with regard to landlord responsibilities. While our locksmiths ensure property code compliance on a daily basis, we are not lawyers. Since this is the case, you may want to review the full text of Chapter 92 - Residential Tenancies - Texas Property Code (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PR/content/pdf/pr.008.00.000092.00.pdf).


Landlords in Texas are required to follow specific Property Code requirements with regard to "Security Devices" in rental properties. Did you know that your failure to follow the lock laws gives your tenant a free and legal walk-away cancellation of the lease agreement? It also places you in a position of greater liability in case of a break in. Why risk it?

Here are the basics of what you must know and abide by. Please contact us (http://www.rekey.com/contact.htm) if you have any questions.





Upon change of tenants, you have within 7 days of your new tenant moving in to rekey the locks. This expense cannot be passed on to the tenant, even if the tenant agrees. It is illegal to charge tenants for re-keying locks in Texas.
All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed. The garage leading from the inside of your home into the garage is considered an exterior door.
All exterior doors in your rental property must have a door viewer (peep hole) installed.
All sliding patio doors must have a pin lock AND either a locking handle or a charlie bar installed.
Exit doors, such as an upstairs passage door leading to a balcony, are not required to have keyed deadbolts or locking doorknobs, but must have a keyless deadbolt installed.


Other Tips:

Proper Handling of Keys
Property Managers and Landlords should NEVER label keys with the property address. Always use a code or cryptic initials in case the keys are lost or stolen.
Double Cylinder Deadbolts
Double Cylinder Deadbolts, which require a key to open the deadbolt from the inside and exit, can create a fire trap. They are not illegal, but it would be prudent for you to consider the possible liability of a tenant or children trapped inside your dwelling during a fire.
Contact us (http://www.rekey.com/contact.htm) if you have any questions at all about your property or the laws that must be followed when renting residential real estate.

Rekey.com
877-211-5397 (KEYS)
Home (http://www.rekey.com/index.html) | Services (http://www.rekey.com/services.html) | Texas Lock Laws | Contact Us (http://www.rekey.com/contact.html)






I probably mis spoke. I guess I am concidering that all homes have dead bolts and can be unlocked from the outside to get in. For security reasons once yuou are inside

"All exterior doors in your rental property must have a keyless deadbolt installed. The garage leading from the inside of your home into the garage is considered an exterior door."

[Jerry McCarthy]

Didn’t know Texans had to have doors locks? Hmmm... I thought everybody packed?

[Rick Hurst]

Jerry,

We don't here in Texas. We leave the door wide open with a 12 gauge leaning against the back of the door frame for any rowdy people or some wild game that might come by.

Mama Mount is in Oklahoma. Things are a bit different north of the river.:D

rick

[Wayne Carlisle]

As far as the 3 locks...the door probably had a regular door knob, a dead bolt. Then the law was passed and apartment owners had a time frame in which to install the locks on the interior of the door. The renter probably installed the chain too. That's probably what happened.

[Jim Luttrall]

Jim,

Neither requires a keyed entry lockset AND a deadbolt. The deadbolt is suitable by itself.

(2) door knob lock OR keyed dead bolt
(5) a keyless bolting device

Point is a dead bolt or keyed lockset is not enough, there must be a keyless deadbolt or equivalent present in addition to whatever else is present.

[MaMa Mount]

YOU GUYS ARE SOMETHING ELSE.:p HOW DO YOU GO FROM A SIMPLE QUESTION OF MINE TO ALL OF THIS TALK ABOUT DOORS? THIS HOME WAS NOT A RENTAL EITHER. IT HAD LOCKS ON THERE BECAUSE OF THE CRAPPY NEIGHBORHOOD OR HOOD IT WAS IN.

MAMA MOUNT

[Wayne Carlisle]

You take every situation and learn from it. I think these types of conversations only help others, myself included, to learn as much as possible about our "not so easy" jobs!

[Jerry Peck]

there must be a keyless deadbolt

Jim,

That's not what it says.

To explain, I will ask a question: What is a ... (see underlined part of phrase)


(5)AAa keyless bolting device and a door viewer on each
exterior door of the dwelling.

I can tell you what it is not, it is not a "keyless deadbolt" *only*. That "keyless deadbolt" term came from that REKEY.com page, not the actual code you posted.

[Jim Luttrall]

SUBCHAPTER D. SECURITY DEVICES
Sec.A92.151.AADEFINITIONS.A In this subchapter:
(1)AA"Doorknob lock" means a lock in a doorknob, with
the lock operated from the exterior by a key, card, or combination
and from the interior without a key, card, or combination.
(2)AA"Door viewer" means a permanently installed device
in an exterior door that allows a person inside the dwelling to view
a person outside the door. The device must be:
(A)AAa clear glass pane or one-way mirror; or
(B)AAa peephole having a barrel with a one-way
lens of glass or other substance providing an angle view of not less
than 160 degrees.
(3)AA"Exterior door" means a door providing access from
a dwelling interior to the exterior. The term includes a door
between a living area and a garage but does not include a sliding
glass door or a screen door.
(4)AA"French doors" means a set of two exterior doors in
which each door is hinged and abuts the other door when closed. The
term includes double-hinged patio doors.
(5)AA"Keyed dead bolt" means:
(A)AAa door lock not in the doorknob that:
(i)AAlocks with a bolt into the doorjamb;
and
(ii)AAis operated from the exterior by a key,
card, or combination and from the interior by a knob or lever
without a key, card, or combination; or
(B)AAa doorknob lock that contains a bolt with at
least a one-inch throw.
(6)AA"Keyless bolting device" means a door lock not in
the doorknob that locks:
(A)AAwith a bolt into a strike plate screwed into
the portion of the doorjamb surface that faces the edge of the door
when the door is closed or into a metal doorjamb that serves as the
strike plate, operable only by knob or lever from the door’s
interior and not in any manner from the door’s exterior, and that is
commonly known as a keyless dead bolt;
(B)AAby a drop bolt system operated by placing a
central metal plate over a metal doorjamb restraint that protrudes
from the doorjamb and that is affixed to the doorjamb frame by means
of three case-hardened screws at least three inches in length.
One-half of the central plate must overlap the interior surface of
the door and the other half of the central plate must overlap the
doorjamb when the plate is placed over the doorjamb restraint. The
drop bolt system must prevent the door from being opened unless the
central plate is lifted off of the doorjamb restraint by a person
who is on the interior side of the door.
The term "keyless bolting device" does not include a
chain latch, flip latch, surface-mounted slide bolt, mortise door
bolt, surface-mounted barrel bolt, surface-mounted swing bar door
guard, spring-loaded nightlatch, foot bolt, or other lock or latch;


Your point is?

[MaMa Mount]

IS ALL THESE RULES YOU GUYS ARE POSTING ONLY REQUIREMENTS FOR RENTAL PROPERTIES?

MAMA MOUNT

[Jim Luttrall]

Yep, and only in Texas.

[Jerry Peck]

Your point is?


What is a ...

"keyless bolting device"?

Does that mean it is a deadbolt which does NOT take a key? Possibly uses a combination or button locking system?

Or does that simply mean a surface mount barrel bolt installed on the inside of the door?

[Ted Menelly]

"key-less bolting device"?

Does that mean it is a deadbolt which does NOT take a key? Possibly uses a combination or button locking system?

Or does that simply mean a surface mount barrel bolt installed on the inside of the door?


Jerry

A key-less dead bolt. You are reading and analyzing way to much into it. A key-less deadbolt. No key slot at the exterior. Just thumb turn on the inside.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry

A key-less dead bolt. You are reading and analyzing way to much into it. A key-less deadbolt. No key slot at the exterior. Just thumb turn on the inside.

Ted,

Not reading too much into it, pointing out that you are (you as in the plural, not as in 'you specifically').

What you suggested is 'one option' in the language of the code. The rekey.com page re-worded what the code says, and the code does not say that at all.

*I* am strictly reading what the code which was posted says: "key-less bolting device".

You reading it as "deadbolt with no key on the outside" is not what it says. A surface mount barrel bolt is a "key-less bolting device".

I went beyond that to show some other examples of what a "key-less bolting device" could be.

Now, that is all based on what has been posted here. Somewhere there may be a definition of a "key-less bolting device" which eliminates the surface mount barrel bolt - but if so, that has not been posted here and is not available for my viewing and reading pleasure. :)

[Billy Stephens]

Boy's, Boy's

Why not Look at The Texas Definitions :rolleyes:

*see 92.151 (6) A and B.
.

[Jerry Peck]

Boy's, Boy's

Why not Look at The Texas Definitions :rolleyes:

*see 92.151 (6) A and B.
.

Thank you, Billy.

That is just what I was referring to as not having been posted and what needed to be posted.

While that "key-less bolting device" 'is not allowed to be' the surface mount barrel bolt I described, it also 'is not required to be' a key-less dead bolt either. As I was saying, that is 'just one option'.

Read 6(A), 6(B), and 6(C) for all options.

[Jim Luttrall]

Billy, thanks for the clarification (but I could not get it to work) but
Ted already posted the entire statute link, Jerry is just trying to be difficult for some reason.


Point is a dead bolt or keyed lockset is not enough, there must be a keyless deadbolt or equivalent present in addition to whatever else is present.


(6)AA"Keyless bolting device" means a door lock not in
the doorknob that locks:
(A)AAwith a bolt into a strike plate screwed into
the portion of the doorjamb surface that faces the edge of the door
when the door is closed or into a metal doorjamb that serves as the
strike plate, operable only by knob or lever from the door’s
interior and not in any manner from the door’s exterior, and that is
commonly known as a keyless dead bolt;


Jerry, do you really not understand what they are asking and enforcing or are you just trying to be argumentative for the sake of arguing?

[Billy Stephens]

Read 6(A), 6(B), and 6(C) for all options.
.
Did that Before I Posted. ;)
.

[Jerry Peck]

Ted already posted the entire statute link, Jerry is just trying to be difficult for some reason.

Jerry, do you really not understand what they are asking and enforcing or are you just trying to be argumentative for the sake of arguing?

Jim,

Are you just arguing for arguments sake? Did you even bother to READ the definitions?

CLEARLY (read them for yourself) CLEARLY a "key-less bolting device" is allowed to be more than just a "key-less deadbolt".

Says so right in the definitions.

Before criticizing me, YOU SHOULD READ THE DEFINITIONS.

Hey, *I* did not write them, but *I* can read them.

Can you?

[Billy Stephens]

Billy, thanks for the clarification (but I could not get it to work) but
Ted already posted the entire statute link,

.
Jim,

Sorry the pdf did not open for you.

Ted did not post the entire statue.

try google keyless bolting device :)
.

[Ted Menelly]

Now I have to admit. The only other type of dead bolt system I have seen is the round flat plate that is screwed into the door jamn and extends ot beyond the face of the door and you slide that flat round plate into it which does act as the same thing. The reason I forgot about that is because they are seldom used. They like to place keyless deadbolt an equal distance away from the door knob as a dead bolt is incase entry need be gained and they do not want to destroy the door. They can simply drill a hole and use a screw driver to turn the deadbolt and then they mount a plate (scewed on from the inside) over that drilled hole to patch the hole later.

Those are the only 2 types I have seen used. A face mounted sliding deadbolt is never used for such. Or any other type of bolting device.

[Jerry Peck]

Those are the only 2 types I have seen used. A face mounted sliding deadbolt is never used for such. Or any other type of bolting device.

You mean you've never seen: (underlining is mine)


(C) by a metal bar or metal tube that is placed across the entire interior side of the door and secured in place at each end of the bar or tube by heavy-duty metal screw hooks. The screw hooks must be at least three inches in length and must be screwed into the door frame stud or wall stud on each side of the door. The bar or tube must be capable of being secured to both of the screw hooks and must be permanently attached in some way to the door frame stud or wall stud. When secured to the screw hooks, the bar or tube must prevent the door from being opened unless the bar or tube is removed by a person who is on the interior side of the door.

Question: Is that even allowed? Would not that set up require "special knowledge" to open in case of an emergency?

[Ted Menelly]

You mean you've never seen: (underlining is mine)


(C) by a metal bar or metal tube that is placed across the entire interior side of the door and secured in place at each end of the bar or tube by heavy-duty metal screw hooks. The screw hooks must be at least three inches in length and must be screwed into the door frame stud or wall stud on each side of the door. The bar or tube must be capable of being secured to both of the screw hooks and must be permanently attached in some way to the door frame stud or wall stud. When secured to the screw hooks, the bar or tube must prevent the door from being opened unless the bar or tube is removed by a person who is on the interior side of the door.

Question: Is that even allowed? Would not that set up require "special knowledge" to open in case of an emergency?

Th only ones I see allowed are the ones I described. Most officials do not like the round metal plate deal. If someone has all their doors safety locked and then they leave by the garage and the garage door stops working the only way to access a home is to break in the door (or window). The keyless deadbolt (with thumb turn) is what I see recommended where ever I go. These are always the same distance as a regular dead bolt and a drill thru the door and a screw driver can disable this type and the fix is quite simple and non destructive.

[Wayne Carlisle]

Did this thread get completely off topic or what? From a water heater allowed in a kitchen to a bar across a door! No place but here!! :)

[Ted Menelly]

Did this thread get completely off topic or what? From a water heater allowed in a kitchen to a bar across a door! No place but here!! :)

I think what we all need is a bar across from our door. Then it would get real interesting :D