could use a tad more clearance

[John Arnold]

Between the heating pipes and the flue connector, this was not fun.

[Ron Bibler]

Thats just great.

Best

Ron

[Nick Ostrowski]

Oh come on John. Just put your teflon helmet on and dive right in there.

[John Arnold]

Oh come on John. Just put your teflon helmet on and dive right in there.

I think I singed what's left of my hair!

[Jerry Peck]

Between the heating pipes and the flue connector, this was not fun.


Unless the photo is an optical illusion, that is also against code, working space-wise. But I know you knew that.

[John Arnold]

Unless the photo is an optical illusion, that is also against code, working space-wise. But I know you knew that.

The photo is an illusion. It's actually much worse than it looks. Standing up straight, there were two heating pipes AND the flue connector directly in the way. I had reach over, under and through these things to get the covers off.

[Nick Ostrowski]

Unless the photo is an optical illusion, that is also against code, working space-wise. But I know you knew that.

Don't be silly Jerry. There's no such thing as code in these Philly row homes John and I frequent. There are three categories we go by: BAD..........ABYSMAL..........RUN AWAY

[Jeff Remas]

In our area, the electric utility companies require 50" in front of meters and service equipment. This above the NEC req

[John Arnold]

In our area, the electric utility companies require 50" in front of meters and service equipment. This above the NEC req

Thanks, Jeff. What is your area, anyway? It would appear on your posts if you would edit your profile by clicking UserCp at the upper left.

[Jeff Remas]

John, I fixed my area. How's that?

[John Arnold]

John, I fixed my area. How's that?

Outstanding.

[John Steinke]

We see many silly things, and I find, at the root of many, one common thing: ignorance.
That is, electricians don't know the building code, plumbers don't know the electrical code, etc. Often the work atmosphere encourages a 'hurray for me, who cares about anyone else?" attitude.

Looking at the waterheater, I suspect that the installer wasn't a qualified plumber in any event. I mean, a rigid pipe to the tank? Chances are the flue needs a fan as well.

The second contributing factor is .... a failure of the architect to provide adequate space for the "mechanicals" of a building. To them, it's far more important that the window casings match the fascia ... than it is to provide for servicing the furnace. This situation is only made worse as our needs increase (say, replacing the 30 gal heater with a 100 gal one), or when the building is remodeled for a different use.

The second is why, when I see an older building, I try to identify what was the original floor plan and construction method.

[John Arnold]

... Looking at the waterheater, I suspect that the installer wasn't a qualified plumber in any event. I mean, a rigid pipe to the tank? ...

John - I assume you're referring to the copper pipe? Around here, that's what we have, except on much newer construction. As for the installer being a qualified plumber - you're probably right. We see tons of work done by non-professionals. I was going to call them amateurs, but a true amateur is someone who loves what he/she is doing, and isn't doing it primarily for compensation.

[Jerry Peck]

We see tons of work done by non-professionals. I was going to call them amateurs,
but a true amateur is someone who loves what he/she is doing, and isn't doing it primarily for compensation.

John,

I broke that into two quotes because, in the first quote, you are correct in using the term amateur.

In the second quote, I've never head that definition before "a true amateur is someone who loves what he/she is doing" ... not remotely resembling anything I've ever heard describing amateur before.

Typically, an amateur is someone who is lacking experience and competence in whatever they are doing.

I looked it up on Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online (http://www.m-w.com) and two of its definitions (see 1.) could be used to support what you said - that part is what I've never heard before in relation to amateur, as the rest of the definition does not.

One entry found.

Main Entry: am·a·teur
Pronunciation: \ˈa-mə-(ˌ)tər, -ˌtu̇r, -ˌtyu̇r, -ˌchu̇r, -chər\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Latin amator lover, from amare to love
Date: 1784


1 : devotee (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/devotee) , admirer (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/admirer)
2 : one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession
3 : one lacking in experience and competence in an art or science
— amateur adjective
— am·a·teur·ish \ˌa-mə-ˈtər-ish, -ˈt(y)u̇r-, -ˈchu̇r-, -ˈchər-\ adjective
— am·a·teur·ish·ly adverb
— am·a·teur·ish·ness noun
— am·a·teur·ism \ˈa-mə-ˌtər-ˌi-zəm, -ˌt(y)u̇r-, -ˌchu̇r-, -ˌchər-; -ˌtə-ˌri-, -ˌchə-ˌri-\ noun
synonyms amateur (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amateur) , dilettante (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dilettante) , dabbler (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dabbler) , tyro (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyro) mean a person who follows a pursuit without attaining proficiency or professional status. amateur (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amateur) often applies to one practicing an art without mastery of its essentials <a painting obviously done by an amateur>; in sports it may also suggest not so much lack of skill but avoidance of direct remuneration <remained an amateur despite lucrative offers>. dilettante (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dilettante) may apply to the lover of an art rather than its skilled practitioner but usually implies elegant trifling in the arts and an absence of serious commitment <had no patience for dilettantes>. dabbler (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dabbler) suggests desultory habits of work and lack of persistence <a dabbler who started novels but never finished them>. tyro (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyro) implies inexperience often combined with audacity with resulting crudeness or blundering <shows talent but is still a mere tyro>.

[John Arnold]

John,

I broke that into two quotes because, in the first quote, you are correct in using the term amateur.

In the second quote, I've never head that definition before "a true amateur is someone who loves what he/she is doing" ... not remotely resembling anything I've ever heard describing amateur before.

...

I was going back to the original derivation of the term, from the French for "lover". Not that I'm a scholar or anything. Over the years I've heard of that definition of amateur a number of times.
Anyway, I used to use "amateur" in inspection reports, and have decided "non-professional" is better on account of it has more syllables.

[Jerry Peck]

Anyway, I used to use "amateur" in inspection reports, and have decided "non-professional" is better on account of it has more syllables.

Using "non-professional" by itself may be incorrect in that the (whatever) was actually done by a "professional".

I went through using several things and ended up with: "amateurish and un-professional". That way, even if a "professional" actually did it, *their work* was still "amateurish and un-professional".

Just a thought.

With "amateurish" having this meaning: "amateur (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amateur) often applies to one practicing an art without mastery of its essentials"

[Dom D'Agostino]

I understood John's Arnold's definition, and there are references that support the notion that an amateur is a person doing something for love & fun instead of pay.


amateur definition | Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/amateur)

Amateur (http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/amateur)

[John Arnold]

Using "non-professional" by itself may be incorrect in that the (whatever) was actually done by a "professional".

I went through using several things and ended up with: "amateurish and un-professional". That way, even if a "professional" actually did it, *their work* was still "amateurish and un-professional".

Just a thought.

With "amateurish" having this meaning: "amateur (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amateur) often applies to one practicing an art without mastery of its essentials"

Well, of course, being a home inspector, I don't actually say the work WAS DONE BY A NON-PROFESSIONAL. I say it APPEARS to have been done by a ... yada yada yada.
Hmmm... maybe "appears to have been done by a yada yada yada" would work?

[Jerry Peck]

Well, of course, being a home inspector, I don't actually say the work WAS DONE BY A NON-PROFESSIONAL. I say it APPEARS to have been done by a ... yada yada yada.
Hmmm... maybe "appears to have been done by a yada yada yada" would work?

John,

It does not really matter *who* did it, or *who* it appears did it, what matters is *how* it was done.

The (whatever) was done/repaired amateurishly and un-professionally (or) was repaired/done in an amateurish or un-professional way/manner/etc., there are many ways to state this, but the main ingredient is *how*, not *who*.

Ummm ... same letters, though, just switch the "h" and the "w". ;)

[John Arnold]

I understood John's Arnold's definition, and there are references that support the notion that an amateur is a person doing something for love & fun instead of pay.


amateur definition | Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/amateur)

Amateur (http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/amateur)

Right. For instance, I am, or was, at least, an amateur photographer. That doesn't mean I was a lousy photographer! It just means I did it for the love of it and not as a way of making a living.

[Ron Bibler]

[quote=Jerry Peck

Ummm ... same letters, though, just switch the "h" and the "w". ;)[/quote]

Jerry your brain is on over load...:D

Best

Ron