I just saw Obama and Gore on TV.

[Ron Bibler]

Need a little help? I saw Obama and Gore in TV. "Obama the time has come to end out need for foreign OIL". Now I'm not looking for a political point of view. My Q. is I just got a new truck runs on gas and my Wife Mini. run on gas. if we stop all the foreign OIL. And we are not going to Drill here for OIL. Just what am i going to put in my truck to get to my Inspections? And what is it going to cost?

I don't care what i put in my truck as long as the thing runs on it.
And its just not my truck but your truck/car/van... and all 200MIL. of us.

If you understand just how this is going to work please post a reply.

Best

Ron

[Ron Bibler]

Sorry Ron, Obama bashing is not allowed on this forum. You will be banned yet.

Fritz.. Thats not what i was doing. dang. I was asking if you understand what his plan is. I for one do not understand how this works. Do you?

I like the Guy!!!

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

That's like the guy who just bought the new Hummer and the price of gas goes to over $4 a gallon ...

Dang, guy, you KNEW that sucker uses 5 gallons to the mile before you bought it ... don't blame us. :eek:

Ron, you knew that new truck ran on *gas* when you bought it, so don't blame ... :)

:D

[Ron Bibler]

That's like the guy who just bought the new Hummer and the price of gas goes to over $4 a gallon ...

Dang, guy, you KNEW that sucker uses 5 gallons to the mile before you bought it ... don't blame us. :eek:

Ron, you knew that new truck ran on *gas* when you bought it, so don't blame ... :)

:D

So Jerry are you saying that all our cars, truck and Vans need to go?

How is this going to work? I know Toyota can come up with something but can i get the conversion for my new Toyota truck and my Wifes MINI.

And do you think the fed will have a loan program to do the conversion to? I don't known!!!

I'm game for anything just want to understand...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Ron,

Did you see the :) and the :D ?

:D :D :D

[Ron Bibler]

Ron,

Did you see the:D and the :) ?


Jerry I'm not playing a blame game. I'm looking for answers to a Q.

How will this work. We have what 150MIL. Cars,Trucks and Vans in America. How will this work?

You can't just shut the Oil Valve off...:eek: Can you!!!

Best

Ron

[Richard Pultar]

Google ..... challenge 2030.....for a paradigm shift

[Jerry Peck]

You can't just shut the Oil Valve off...:eek: Can you!!!

Now we have something to work with.

No one is saying "just shut the oil Valve off". They are saying "reduce our dependence on oil.

There is a big difference between "reduce our dependence on oil" and "just shut the oil Valve off".

I suspect that, at best, it will be a 20 year plus operation of turning the oil valve off to get it "most of the way" off. I doubt it will ever be "off", at least not in our lifetime, and probably not in our children's children's lifetime. By the way, my "children's children" are in their 20s. :) (Well, except for my wife's children's children, she is only turning 3 on Jan. 3, 2009. :D )

[Jim Robinson]

I agree with JP. In my opinion, what they will "try" to start with is stopping imports from the Middle East and Venezuela and other countries that don't like us very much. Our top four are currently Can, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Venezuela. A big start would be to move SA and Venezuela down in imports, as our transportation costs are much lower from Mexico and Canada.

Every president since Nixon has said this exact same thing, and Carter was the only one when we actually dropped our consumption of oil during his term. The former presidents didn't have China and India's economies taking off like our next president has, so foreign demand was much, much less.

Back to your question, the elimination of "foreign" oil would not necessarily mean the end of gasoline or internal combustion. We are averaging about 5 million barrels / day, and they do expect that to rise to 5.25 with a new platform in the Gulf Coast and something in Tahiti. I'm not sure how we have that as part of our domestic production, but whatever works. There is some more oil out there, and we'll get to that sooner or later. Probably sooner. We import about 8.4 million bbl/day (Sept. 08), so we're not as far off as a lot of people think. If we decrease consumption from 13.65 million barrels / day to about 9 million, we could cut out Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. That's a big nut to make, but we're not talking overnight. This is basically a lifetime project for people our age. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries (http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html)

EIA - Short-Term Energy Outlook (http://www.eia.doe.gov/steo)

[Markus Keller]

I agree with Jerry it's not a debate about 'shutting the valve off'.
We will continue to need and have oil/gas for our vehicle's for a while yet. What it will cost, who knows.
But consider the relatively easy steps we could take as a society to reduce consumption and thereby dependence on foreign oil.
- retrofit existing government buildings with solar/geothermal as possible
- mandate all new government buildings be built with solar/geothermal to get to as close to 0 daily energy use as possible
- Finally get beyond (my pet peeve) the R13 exterior wall insulation standard that has been used at least since I was a kid. I am finally seeing some movement towards R19 exterior wall insul in our area. Imagine how much less natural gas we would use every winter.
- Stop packaging the living crap out of every thing
- Require commercial spaces turn off more lights at night
- Increase rail infrastructure
- Require suburban areas to actually have sidewalks so people can walk to a store instead of driving
Hey, what do I know?
I did one of my routine constr insp yesterday. What did the HVAC guy do once again? Install one wild return in the hallway in a big duplex unit. So much for good air distribution and return. I estimate wild returns increase energy use by at least 20% on both heat and cool sides. Imagine if ductwork were actually installed properly in all the recent Condo buildings. I'm working on a formula to calculate this more scientifically so I can use it as a hand out to clients.
Anyway, enough.

[Richard Pultar]

what is a wild return?
you might find www.architecture2030.org/ interesting

[Markus Keller]

Wild return = essentially filter size hole cut on the side of the furnace. Variations are as follows:
- return grille screwed to side of furnace box, no filter rack
- filter rack, screwed to side of furnace then a grille
- ductwork sleeve extending from side of furnace through the adjacent wall to the edge of the drywall with a grille screwed onto the drywall
- Typically the wild return opens into a hallway or open floor plan living room/kitchen setup; but hey sometimes even into a bedroom
- When they are doing really classy work there might be a vertical 5'-8' duct on the side of the furnace so they have a high and low return
I'm sure guys around the country have some other term for it but that's our jargon around here.

[Markus Keller]

Richard, Thanks for the website link! Great info, totally the stuff I'm interested in.