Chinese drywall

[John Arnold]

It seems the latest lovely product to come out of China is drywall that's contaminated somehow with toxic sulfur compounds. Seems to be mainly in Florida?
Anyone running into this?
When I do a Google news search, I'm mainly finding small publications, but there is one MSNBC story:
Chinese drywall: What to look for - News- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28356420/)

[Michael Thomas]

Hum... bought some cabinet grade plywood just last week at Home Depot, noticed it'd been imported from China, noticed it had at odd smell in the truck, and found myself thinking "Who knows what this stuff is outgassing?".

A while before that I bought a stainless steel hose clamp at HD to install a sump pump at a rental property, six months later the tenant called called because there was a geyser in the basement - turned out the clamp was actually mild steel ... I'm sure someone got a nice bonus selling 500,000 of those to the pumpkin patch for an extra four cents apiece as they were stainless.

These folks have some serious problems with quality control.

[Jim Luttrall]

<LI itxtvisited="1">
This specific drywall is made of waste from coal-fired plants. The material that wouldn't burn was recylced into the drywall instead of being taken to a landfill. But it is recycled...
Isn't green better??:eek:

[Ted Menelly]

I can see sneakers but drywall and plywood. How do they manage to produce these heavy products and ship them overseas for less than we can dig gypsum (we have more than most) up and turn it into drywall and rail car it everywhere. Drywall compared to most products as far as manufacturing is a very automated business

[Jim Luttrall]

The article said price was not the issue on this one but the material shortage during a building boom of a specific time frame.
Not to worry, we won't be having another boom for a while.:rolleyes:

[Ted Menelly]

The article said price was not the issue on this one but the material shortage during a building boom of a specific time frame.
Not to worry, we won't be having another boom for a while.:rolleyes:

Jim

You did not hear yet????

The next boom is starting a week from tomorrow in the north Dalls area. The housing sales is also about to take off. The only bad thing is, every home inspector in the country is moving north of Dallas :D

[Paul Kondzich]

Drywall complaints go up | news-press.com | The News-Press (http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008812230384)

I just read this last week. If it rots out your evaporator every year think what it does to your lungs.

[Jerry Peck]

The articles seem to be all talking about copper refrigerant piping, but what about copper water piping, or ... copper wiring?

Copper wiring getting smaller in size is not going to be a good thing, no siree. :eek:

[Nick Ostrowski]

We need to stop importing anything from China before it kills all of us.

[Wayne Carlisle]

I had a discussion with Texas Department of Health and one of the issues with the China drywall is that it contains more asbestos in it than allowed by US standards.

This has been a problem with the drywall sold at building supply chains (Home Depot here).

I asked the representative how China was shipping us products inferior products and no one was checking it. He said the way they were getting around it was by shipping it to Mexico and then Mexico would ship it to the US. NAFTA is the culprit on this one! When the US signed an agreement with Mexico for "free trade”, it opened up a channel for inferior products to be shipped into the States!

[Paul Kondzich]

Some more info.Firm: Drywall complaints confined to Fla. | news-press.com | The News-Press (http://www.news-press.com/article/20090110/RE/901100363/1075&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL)

[steeler mom]

We are investigating problems with Chinese drywall in Florida homes. For more information, please visit: DEFECTIVE CHINESE DRYWALL LAWSUIT - Parker Waichman Alonso LLP (http://www.defective-chinese-drywall-lawsuit.com/)

[Ted Menelly]

I am not saying it is not true or warranted but the propblem lies in the first article stating

"In Lee County, the residents of a Fort Myers home were forced to vacate in late December due to the problem. Florida Health Department officials said they have fewer than 50 complaints spread over nine counties about the drywall."

The article by Steelers Mom states that there are thousands of homes affected and please fill out the online form to join the lawsuit. Are far as it smelling like rotten eggs in some cases I am sure it does. I was involved with drywall all my life in one way or another and some drywall hot off the press stunk like hell and other times it just smelled as it should.

A mass law suit is not the way at this time. The health issues are questionable and as far as thousands of homes being affected the proof is just not out there.

If your homes smeell like rotted eggs then go thru the builder or the builders attorney and if not satisfied threaten with legal action. Just the threat of leagal action takes care of most claims especially when there is a known concern. If it is a health issue follow the thread "Another gold mine" I posted and spend your 1800. If there is a true health concern then it will be added to the law suit if a law suit is needed later.

Good luck to all those that are/may be affected. I truly feel for those that have real building complaints.

After all that said I will say that this has the potential to be something pretty big.

[Jerry Peck]

The article by Steelers Mom states that there are thousands of homes affected and please fill out the online form to join the lawsuit.


Ted,

BONK! (upside the head with the 2x4) :)

Didjafergit?

This is a slow economy, does not take as much to get the sharks circling their perceived prey.

:rolleyes:

[Ted Menelly]

Who needs drywall anyway? I live fine with out it.:p

M. Mount


Thats like way to much info

[Billy Stephens]

Who needs drywall anyway? I live fine with out it.:p

M. Mount
.
.....
.

[Scott Patterson]

Had an email from EMSL labs saying that they can test drywall for this. Just the lab part of the test starts at $600 and goes up.

[Ted Menelly]

Had an email from EMSL labs saying that they can test drywall for this. Just the lab part of the test starts at $600 and goes up.

I put the whole email on the "another gold mine" thread

[Paul Kondzich]

ALL IS WELL!Drywall sulfur levels not a health risk, toxicologist says : Lee County : Naples Daily News (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jan/22/drywall-sulfur-levels-not-health-risk-toxicologist/)

[Jerry Peck]

ALL IS WELL!Drywall sulfur levels not a health risk, toxicologist says : Lee County : Naples Daily News (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jan/22/drywall-sulfur-levels-not-health-risk-toxicologist/)


Unless you consider all being well as well. ;)

"The studies did not take note of individuals’ health issues or any corrosive effects, he said. And Goad declined to release the locations where the tests were administered."

Let's see that says 'I found very low levels ... but I ain't gonna tell you where I found them at ... ' Huh? Makes it real believable, doesn't it?

Regardless, "The studies did not take note ... any corrosive effects, he said.", so ... the study did ... exactly what? :confused:

I'm not saying the study is bogus, but when someone is selling me a 'pig in a poke' and I here a meow ... I get suspicious ... :rolleyes:

I *am not* going to be the one to 'let that cat out of the bag'.

[William Levy]

Hi all

I got a soil related call from one of our engineering firm clients in the Tampa area and he mentioned they have cases of 100% drywall replacement required after evaporator failure. I see ESML has just started offering a sulfur testing test for gypsum products.

Jerry, I don't think anyone thought about Cu wiring or plumbing..the ac's
use very thin Cu and hope the oil in the refrigerant keeps internal corrosion


Bill Levy
Associated Radon Services

[Ted Menelly]

Hi all

I got a soil related call from one of our engineering firm clients in the Tampa area and he mentioned they have cases of 100% drywall replacement required after evaporator failure. I see ESML has just started offering a sulfur testing test for gypsum products.

Jerry, I don't think anyone thought about Cu wiring or plumbing..the ac's
use very thin Cu and hope the oil in the refrigerant keeps internal corrosion


Bill Levy
Associated Radon Services

Who is replacing the drywall ? Is the cost of replacing the drywall including carpet removal and replacement, trim replacement, attic insulation replacement, painting etc, etc, extended stay in a suitable living, moving and moving back of furnishings and belongings, stress and pain and sufffering etc, etc.

One would think that there would be a serious court battle before the manufacturer paid for its first case so it did not snow ball into thousands of homes.

[Jerry Peck]

One would think that there would be a serious court battle before the manufacturer paid for its first case so it did not snow ball into thousands of homes.

Actually, sometimes, with things like this, if the manufacturer jumps in and eats the cost, 'the problem' costs much less than fighting it out, less than the bad publicity, less than the attorneys fees, less than ... etc.

[Danny O'Donovan]

Has any of the homeowners asked Home depot to stop stocking the drywall from that particular supplier?

[Scott Patterson]

I learned a good deal about this toxic drywall this past week while attending InspectionWorld. I had the opportunity to talk with several inspectors from various parts of the country who have actually seen this stuff.

If is a problem in areas that had a large amount of construction during the past five or so years. It is seen mostly in areas that had drywall shortages. The gypsum that is used is not the problem. In a way to get rid of coal ash from various plants they combined the coal ash with the gypsum and then it is used in the drywall manufacturing process. The Chinese are getting rid of their toxic waste by putting it into other products that they then ship out of their country!

If the home was built in an area that does not have a good amount of humidity then it might not rear its ugly head for several more years. Moisture is the key ingredient that is needed to start the off gassing.

Everyone that I spoke with felt that this is a major problem in just about every state in the country.

On the back of the drywall it does say "Made in China". A German company by the name of Knauf was the major importer of the product. It was made in one of their subsidiaries in China.

[William Levy]

Radon note,

Coal ash (Fly ash) used by some cement producers found that there was enough Ra226 to present a radon emanation problem there are several papers published on the subject..some from China !!

Bill Levy
Associated Radon Services

[Jerry Peck]

Radon note,

Coal ash (Fly ash) used by some cement producers found that there was enough Ra226 to present a radon emanation problem there are several papers published on the subject..some from China !!

Bill Levy
Associated Radon Services


Bill,

Nothing like surrounding oneself with radon emitting material, is there?

Have you ever thought about testing one of those houses?

[William Levy]

Jerry we do all the time with the concrete emanating radon all over FL and now show up Ga, Tn, etc etc. but the drywall is new .. We have tested a few '' green " drywall samples for someone in California with almost no radon emanation..If any one comes across some of the china sheetrock send me a sq ft sample to through in the chamber..

Bill
Associated Radon Services

[Rick Souter]

Looks like this product is just hitting the fan here in Canada. The media has just discovered that a lot of it came through the Port of Vancouver and people are lining up. This will be interesting.



Wed, March 10, 2009
VANCOUVER — Homeowners from several communities in B.C.'s Lower Mainland have joined the flood of callers to a U.S. consumer group investigating Chinese drywall that has allegedly begun to sicken North Americans. Thomas Martin, president of America's Watchdog, says that in the past two weeks about a dozen Lower Mainland callers have all reported experiencing the same nose bleeds, breathing problems and allergy-type symptoms that have affected homeowners across the U.S. Continued exposure could result in severe health problems, the group says.
"This type of drywall was produced with materials that emit toxic hydrogen sulphide gas and other sulphide gases," says a copy of one home inspection report obtained Canwest News Service on an affected Florida home where Chinese drywall was installed. "These sulphide gases are also alleged to cause serious health conditions and illnesses, such as shortness of breath, dizziness, headaches, fatigue, insomnia, eye irritations and respiratory difficulties."
"It's scary, it's a nightmare. We think we are looking at the worst case of sick houses in U.S. history," Martin said. "I'd liken it to the problems you find in a meth house (where an illegal lab has been operating)," he said. "If you have had any experience with a meth house, you know it will have to be bulldozed. Like in a meth house, the emissions permeate everything, the two-by-fours, the trusses, the fabric in your furniture, your clothes."
The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission said last week it was investigating complaints about the Chinese-made drywall. All houses affected have shown a common symptom — blackened, scorched wiring behind switch plates and wall plugs — and, coupled with homeowner health symptoms, that's allowed research to proceed, Martin said.
Martin said the group has also fielded calls from worried Canadians who bought property south of the border when the Canadian dollar was high. The drywall in question was imported from China between 2001 and 2007. According to Martin's research, at least 929,000 square metres were imported through Vancouver between 2001 and 2006, all bound for Canadian destinations.
So far, research shows some appears to have landed on the Prairies, some in Toronto, he said. One possibility is that the Chinese drywall was made using gypsum that was first used in slurry containing carcinogens to de-sulphur coal. Chemicals remaining in the wallboard are sufficiently toxic that as few as three sheets of drywall may be enough to contaminate a home to the point it may require bulldozing, Martin says.
The difficulty for inspectors is that walls may have been built with drywall from as many as four sources — so simply pulling one clean sample is no guarantee of safety. Martin said supplies in the U.S. can be tracked where they were used by licensed builders and insurance may pay for the damages. But anyone using small firms or paying for renovations under the table will be difficult to find and help.
Few Canadian labour or industry officials are aware of the issue. Tiziana Baccega, public relations manager for Home Depot in Canada, said the chain has never sold Chinese-made drywall in any of its Canadian or U.S. outlets. Other major suppliers and retailers could not be reached.
Several lawsuits, including one by a group of Florida homeowners, have been filed against German drywall maker Knauf Gips KG, its Chinese plasterboard units and several U.S. home builders.
© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service


Rick

[John Kogel]

Looks like this product is just hitting the fan here in Canada. The media has just discovered that a lot of it came through the Port of Vancouver and people are lining up. This will be interesting.

Rick

One useful tip gleaned from that article - check copper wiring in a few outlets, look for black tarnish, if so, then evacuate and call the lawyers.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome (http://www.allsafehome) .ca

[Scott Patterson]

One useful tip gleaned from that article - check copper wiring in a few outlets, look for black tarnish, if so, then evacuate and call the lawyers.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome (http://www.allsafehome) .ca

A pretty good article on Chinese drywall can be found in this months ASHI Reporter. Taking a Look at Issues With Drywall from China | ASHI Reporter (http://www.ashireporter.org/articles/articles.aspx?id=1630)

[William Levy]

Hi all & thanks for the link to the ASHI reporter article Scott ..Remember that there can be similar copper oxidation from excess Ozone produced by a few super air filters..

I am still trying to get a sample to test for 226Radium or other radioactive elements found in coal flyash.. if these are present a single channel gamma scan might be able to be used to ID specific "hot" drywall boards in place.. If somone runs into a tear out project let me know & I'll send a UPS label.. wet chemistry testing seems VERY expensive Thanks

Bill

William Levy
Associated Radon Services
wlevy@radonserv.com

[Victor DaGraca]

Drywall from China blamed for problems in homes - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2009-03-16-chinese-drywall-sulfur_N.htm)

[John Arnold]

Is anyone else getting calls or emails about this subject? I've gotten an email (without spam) and a phone message, both from south Florida, asking for info about Chinese drywall. I suggested to the email guy that he contact some of you Florida inspectors. I didn't actually give names, but since he appeared to be reading IN, I figured he could find you.

[Scott Patterson]

Is anyone else getting calls or emails about this subject? I've gotten an email (without spam) and a phone message, both from south Florida, asking for info about Chinese drywall. I suggested to the email guy that he contact some of you Florida inspectors. I didn't actually give names, but since he appeared to be reading IN, I figured he could find you.

Yes, I have received calls from LA, FL and NC over the past few weeks. I have some information on my website and this is how they are finding me. All of them were wanting testing done on their homes. I just referred them to inspectors that I know in their area. I also told them that any testing would be very expensive. Last figure I saw from EMSL was around $1200 for just the testing of the drywall.

[Terence Pete]

Hum... bought some cabinet grade plywood just last week at Home Depot, noticed it'd been imported from China, noticed it had at odd smell in the truck, and found myself thinking "Who knows what this stuff is outgassing?".

A while before that I bought a stainless steel hose clamp at HD to install a sump pump at a rental property, six months later the tenant called called because there was a geyser in the basement - turned out the clamp was actually mild steel ... I'm sure someone got a nice bonus selling 500,000 of those to the pumpkin patch for an extra four cents apiece as they were stainless.

These folks have some serious problems with quality control.


Thanks for your newsletters. They are very informative and effective with up-to-date data. I read with great interest the CNN article on Chinese Drywall. I would like to assure you and your team that The Home Depot does not sell such materials. I have attached a link to our web site so that you may pass this along as you wish. We at The Home Depot strive for 100&#37; compliance in all matters.

I cut and pasted the following from our web site:

www.Homedepot.com (http://www.homedepot.com/) > corporate info > About The Home Depot > Our Company > Fact Check
“The Home Depot: Fact Check
INTEGRITY OF DRYWALL PRODUCTS
The Home Depot sells domestically-produced drywall. The Company has not and does not sell drywall made in China or other overseas sources. Simply, shipping drywall from such a distance is not cost effective for us or our customers and is a practice we have not pursued. On the matter of quality, we have very strict policies and procedures in place to ensure the integrity of the building materials sold in our stores, and we take pride in our ability to partner with suppliers to maintain these standards for our customers following significant weather events.”

[Michael Thomas]

Seems I'm not the only one who's noticed the difference between Chinese and domestic plywood:

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Archives/SS112/SS112_Clamp_Caddy_files/images/Choosing_Plywood.pdf

My sense of smell has changed after working with Chinese plywood - by CutsTwiceMeasuresOnce | LumberJocks.com :: woodworking community (http://lumberjocks.com/topics/7092)

And home Depot certainly DOES sell Chinese manufactured plywood - or at least did as recently as a few months ago.

[Brad Russell]

***Disclaimer***
I work for AssuredBio, a laboratory that does Chinese drywall analysis. If it is against any rules for me to discuss this, please delete the post and politely let me know.


Chinese drywall was mostly imported between 2004 and 2007, but has been found in homes built as early as 2001. It off gases disulfide compounds and may include hydrogen disulfide and/or strontium sulfide. Chinese drywall is of a lower quality than other drywall types. It contains air pockets and often crumbles easily. Signs of corrosion include "rotten egg" sulfur smell and black corrosion on copper in HVAC systems or refrigerators. The off gasing is relative to temperature and humidity.

If you know drywall is Chinese, it needs to come out and probably doesn't need to be tested. A Knauf logo on the drywall or blue and yellow side tape indicate Chinese drywall, but it isn't always labeled. Our website has more information and images of the stickers here: Chinese Drywall Information (http://chinesedrywalltests.com/chinese-drywall-info.html)

I hope this isn't inappropriate advertising. We offer two types of analysis, a positive-negative and analysis with contaminant identification. The positive/negative uses Near Infrared (NIR) imaging and is $95/analysis. The analysis with contaminant identification uses Fourier Transformed Infrared (FTIR) technology and is $159/analysis.

Like most of you, we are constantly learning more about this issue. If you have any questions feel free to call me at 1-866-547-1727 from 8-5 EST Mon-Fri. I won't try to sell you anything, I will just try to answer your questions.

Brad

[Daniel Lawrence III]

Oh great another compromised Chinese product that should be recalled. That is the price paid for outsourcing to any unqualified interests that are not aligned with the highest of values and interests. It appears there is little virtue in commerce where the botton line rules.

I smell another big class action law suit.

[Paul Peck]

Hi all. http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1620/wavewaveuo2.gif
Long time reader first time contributor. (no relation to Jerry P.)
Thank you moderators for great website. http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9530/clapper.gif

I'm a Drywall and Painting contractor here in Central Florida. I've been following this chinese drywall thing over the last several months. Thankfully none of my suppliers carried any of the suspect drywall. I wanted to post some of the information that I have gathered.

Here's a link I think all of you will find useful http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1311/cheersx.gif: ------>Florida Department of Health website (http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environment/community/indoor-air/casedefinition.html)

[Jerry Peck]

If you think you may have Chinese drywall in your home, or just aren't sure and would like to find out, there is a cheap and easy to use test kit at (DELETED LINK TO AVOID ADVERTISING FOR THIS CRAP)

It's pretty simple, and can be reused to test all over the house. Also, it doesn't require cutting holes in your drywall, which is a plus.

(DELETED LINK TO AVOID ADVERTISING FOR THIS CRAP)



A charlatan multiple posting the same crap on each thread - DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY of this crap.

[John Lugger]

Anybody have a few samples. I know a real laboratory - not the $29.95 kit variety.

I would like to have it tested to make sure we know what is going on.

samples?

[Jerry McCarthy]

A good friend of mine (home inspector) was retained to inspect a relatively new home and when he arrived for his inspection there where 11 Shoalin Priests going through the home chanting and spreading smoke from some type of ornate lantern. After my friend descended from the attic area he told the agent that the drywall appeared to be the suspected Chinese Gypsum imported by the Knauf Company. He had noticed the rotten egg odor while in the attic and pulled back the insulation to read the back label. Apparently an English speaking Priest overheard him and after a short conference with his fellow monks they all left in a hurry. Later he found out the Priests advised their client not to buy the home as it was filled with evil spirits. The agent is pissed at my friend for speaking aloud about the suspected gypboard and the home owner wants to sue the religious order of Shaolin Priests for smoke damage to her home. And this is only the begiining!

[Jerry Peck]

the home owner wants to sue the religious order of Shaolin Priests for smoke damage to her home. And this is only the begiining!


I agree, let them smoke up their own home, not mine.

That said, that buyer was probably the seller's best hope for dumping the house, and now she is really pissed ... having to deal with the Chinese drywall thing and all.

Egad! What times we do live in.

[Shawn Burdolski]

The company I work for is based in SW FL. I started at this company in July of last year. We preformed over 3000 inspections last year throughout the state of Florida. I myself have preformed 328 inspections last year, out of those 328 homes 36 of them had defective drywall installed in them. The owner of the company developed the protocols for inspecting for defective drywall in February of 2009. So far 38 out of the 50 states have confirmed cases of defective drywall. Some drywall manufactures imported bad drywall from China and put their labels or stamps on it. There have been many clams that US made drywall such as USG is defective as well. I have not seen anything that supports this as of yet.
The oldest home so far that has been confirmed to have defective drywall was originally built in the 80’s but was remodeled within the last 5 years. I personally have inspected a home that was built in 1991 and it too had been remodeled with defective drywall. The most predominate year for defective drywall was 2006. This is based on all the homes that the company inspected that had defective drywall installed in them.

[Paul Kondzich]

Shawn, I sent you a Private Message. Please check it out and get back to me.

[Jerry Peck]

The company I work for is based in SW FL. I started at this company in July of last year. We preformed over 3000 inspections last year throughout the state of Florida. I myself have preformed 328 inspections last year, out of those 328 homes 36 of them had defective drywall installed in them. The owner of the company developed the protocols for inspecting for defective drywall in February of 2009.


Shawn,

Post your inspection method here, if I feel it is legitimate I have a person I can give your name to in your area, however, if I feel it is crap and rip-off, I will also tell you that too.

Has your inspection method stood up to peer review, or is it something super secret and really not forthright and not above board?

[mark tyson]

For those of you interested go to this link for the protocal for inspecting homes that may contain defective drywall. note i said defective not Chinese. Chinese Drywall Syndrome (http://chinesedrywallinfo.com/)