Marco Fireplace

[Dave Hahn]

Looking for some insight as to why a Marco Fireplace (m/n 792863B) that states "intended for use with solid wood fuel only" on its nameplate, (i) has a gas log set installed (as have all the ones I've come across before), and (ii) has some reference to "when using gas..." on the nameplate.

Can a gas log set be installed or not?

Dazed and Confused (OK, just confused).

[Jerry Peck]

Well, the nameplate states:

Fireplace intended for use with solid wood fuel only.
(something washed out in flash) See Marco MFG installation and (partially washed out in flash)erating instructions for this (washed out in flash)uel.

I am presuming that say something like this:
(filling in the blanks with the underlined all caps)
Fireplace intended for use with Solid wood fuel only.
See Marco MFG installation and OPerating instructions for this WHEN USING GAS Fuel.

That would indicate that, yes, this fireplace can be used with gas logs provided the installation is installed and used in accordance with the requirements of the installation instructions.

I search the internet also and could not find the installation instructions.

I would report what you observed and recommend the fireplace be inspected by a Certified F.I.R.E inspector. They will be able to clear up any misunderstandings and incorrect installations (or advise removal/replacement if needed).

That is like calling for a contractor for repairs - you inspected it, you found this stuff 'not quite right', you recommend an expert to make necessary corrections and repairs as needed.

If they confirm that there is nothing wrong with the installation, your client got their money's worth, if the confirm that is incorrect, or find other things which are incorrect, your client got their money's worth.

[Dave Hahn]

Jerrry...thanks.

FYI - It says "model" and not "fuel" (another photo included).
So it says "See MARCO MFG Installation and Operating Instructions for this Model."

Pretty standard stuff. Nothing in it referencing the potential use of a gas appliance. Thus leaving me with my original quandry...the reference to use with a gas appliance: "when using gas..."

Obviously, before reporting anything I'm trying to gain enough information to better understand what I observed (or didn't observe), and to potentially save my client further expense by being able to make an intelligent and accurate reporting of my findings. Which may be, "this is OK."

When I can't, or if I can determine its incorrect or unsafe, I'll punt.

(Brian - off message: I'm selecting "Instant email notification" but not getting the notification. I used to, and I do get the regular "digest" updates from InspectionNews.net)

[Jerry Peck]

I see the warning you are referring to (unless I have made yet another mistake) in the lower right corner where it states: Warning: When burning gas (edge of photo) adjust damper to the fu(edge of photo).

That label, as I see it (barring another mistake on the gas part) indicates the fireplace is "Intended for use with solid wood fuel only." and the gas part would be for a gas igniter, NOT a gas log set.

*IF* that is the case, then that fireplace is NOT being used as it was tested, listed, and labeled for.

THAT is a no-no.

[Jim Luttrall]

Contact the manufacturer if the label does not tell the tale.
Here is a quote from another of their products.




DO NOT OVERFIRE. USE ONLY: SOLID WOOD FUEL OR
LISTED DECORATIVE GAS APPLIANCE. DO NOT USE A
FIREPLACE INSERT OR OTHER PRODUCTS NOT
SPECIFIED FOR USE WITH THIS PRODUCT. IF DOORS
ARE USED OPERATE FIREPLACE WITH DOORS FULLY
OPEN OR CLOSED ONLY. WHEN BURNING A
DECORATIVE GAS APPLIANCE IN THE FIREPLACE,
ADJUST DAMPER TO THE FULLY OPEN POSITION.






WARNING! THIS FIREPLACE HAS NOT BEEN TESTED WITH AN UNVENTED
GAS LOG SET. TO REDUCE THE RISK OF FIRE OR INJURY, DO NOT
INSTALL AN UNVENTED GAS LOG SET INTO FIREPLACE.
WARNING! THIS APPLIANCE IS NOT FOR USE AS COOKING EQUIPMENT.

[Dale W. Feb]

Dave,

Here is the history and development of these factory-built fireplaces.

The first factory-built fireplace systems were approved for solid fuel and DID NOT have any means to install a gas line through the side wall of the firebox. Some individuals decided to punch holes through the metal voiding the listing and posing a fire hazard.

The manufacturers then supplied listed means to install the gas lines for the log lighter ONLY. This application is detectible by the physical design of the side wall (sometimes bottom) refractory. Both of these applications will clearly state on the manufacture’s label “for use with solid fuel only”.

The next series of fireplaces have different statements on the manufacturer’s labels due to changes within the testing standards.

The first was something similar to the following, “for use with solid fuel only and approved decorative gas appliances”. The decorative gas appliance refers to a gas log set. AS far as the “Approved” comment, that was a little sketchy.

The next was something similar to “for use with solid fuel only or listed decorative gas appliances”.

The next was something similar to “This fireplace is approved for use with solid fuel or for use with a vented gas log approved to ANS Z21.60, Z21.84”.

Then there was “This fireplace is approved for use as a wood burning fireplace or for use with a vented gas log approved to ANS Z21.60, Z21.84 or RGA 2-72 standards or for use with a vent-free gas log heater approved to ANS Z21.11.2 standard.

All of which may be followed by the warnings below.

WARNING! THIS FIREPLACE HAS NOT BEEN TESTED WITH AN UNVENTED GAS LOG SET. TO REDUCE THE RISK OF FIRE OR INJURY, DO NOT INSTALL AN UNVENTED GAS LOG SET INTO FIREPLACE.

WARNING: When processed wood fuel fire logs are used, do not poke or stir the logs while they are burning. Use only fire logs that have been evaluated for the application in fireplace and refer to fire log warnings and caution markings on packaging prior to use.

WARNING: Do not install a fireplace insert in this box unless the manufacturers instructions with the insert specifically state this fireplace has been tested for use with the insert.

So the rule is, if it does not say that it is approved for use with a specific product, then it is not. It must be clearly stated on the attached label as required by the UL 127 testing standard.

Recap:
Solid fuel (no gas supply).
Solid fuel (with gas supply for log lighter).
Solid fuel with gas supply for log lighter and gas log set
Solid fuel with gas supply for log lighter, gas log set and vent-free gas logs.
Beware of any application with an insert into a factory-built fireplace (no standard developed).

Fuel for thought.

[Nick Ostrowski]

Dave, I saw the same exact thing with a Marco wood burning fireplace yesterday that was converted to gas. Manufacturer info plate stated just as yours "FOR USE WITH SOLID WOOD FUEL ONLY".