arc fault and bus bar

[SAL IACONO]

Wanted to know if its Ok to tie the nuetral and ground together in the same hole on the bus bar (box is a C-H)? Also new TREC guidelines state arc fault protection required in the following areas :

(17) the lack of arc-fault circuit
interrupting devices serving family rooms,
dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries,
dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreations rooms,
closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas;

Does this include lights? i noted a few breakers labeled lights and was wondering if those needed to be listed as deficient as well.

What is the best method to test these breakers?

[Jim Luttrall]

Yes, it includes lights.
You might as well develop a blanket statement covering AFCI deficiencies since I doubt you will see a fully compliant installation until the municipalities in your area adopt and fully enforce the 2008 NEC.
Kind of like GFCI's for us years ago.
Basically every light and outlet in the house that is not required to be GFCI protected needs AFCI protection.

No, the neutral must be by itself in the terminal.

[John Arnold]

Wanted to know if its Ok to tie the nuetral and ground together in the same hole on the bus bar..


No. 2006 IRC E3606.4.

[Jim Port]

The neutrals need to terminate one per hole. They cannot share with another neutral or grounding conductor.

The only recognized way to test the AFCI function is with the test button on the breaker.

The NEC says that the protection is for the outlets. The definition of outlet is " A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment". This includes lights and receptacles. Smoke alarms also need this unless local rules have overridden this.

[John Arnold]

...
Basically every light and outlet in the house that is not required to be GFCI protected needs AFCI protection...

Could you explain this? Since GFCI and AFCI are two different beasts, why do circuits with GFCI protection not need AFCI protection?

[Jim Luttrall]

I can't explain it, just what the code says.
I am guessing the AFCI manufacturers gave this to the code writers since there would be a problem getting both types of protection on the same circuit.

[John Arnold]

I can't explain it, just what the code says.
I am guessing the AFCI manufacturers gave this to the code writers since there would be a problem getting both types of protection on the same circuit.

I'm just trying to understand this from a technical standpoint. Why is it a problem getting both types of protection on the same circuit? If you have an AFCI breaker protecting a circuit with GFCI receptacle outlets, do they interfere with each other in some way?

[Jim Luttrall]

Maybe in 2011...
Again. I can't explain it, maybe someone else has a better idea.

[SAL IACONO]

Thanks for the speedy input y'all !!!!!! :)=

[Jim Port]

There is no problem with having a GFI receptacle on a circuit protected with AFCI protection.

As was just said it is not required by code.