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Scott Patterson
05-24-2007, 08:46 AM
This has gone under the radar. Georgia General Assembly - SB 334 (http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2007_08/search/sb334.htm)

Does anyone have any information about this legislation? On the surface it looks like a fairly good bill.

Bob White
05-24-2007, 02:15 PM
I've heard nothing in the local grapevine....

It doesn't seem to be drawing a lot of interest pro or con around these parts.

Jim Luttrall
05-24-2007, 03:16 PM
Be careful guys, if GA legislature is anything like TX, you could be in for a fast ride where you don't want to go. Watch "em!

Bob White
05-24-2007, 04:44 PM
In the proposed bill for licensing of home inspectors in GA, paragraph 43-39B-5 (b) says (in part):


(b) A person shall be eligible for licensure as a home inspector if he or she:

(1) ....
(2) ....
(3) ....
(4) ....
(5) Prior to or within one year of the effective date of this chapter, has passed a valid, reliable examination designed to test competence in home inspection practice and developed pursuant to accepted psychometric standards promulgated by the American Educational Research Association or similar organization acceptable to the board.

I assume that the above refers to the NHIE. Is there another exam that meets the above proposed requirement? Please don't bother to list the ones that don't meet the standard.

What are the similar organizations to the one above?

Scott Patterson
05-24-2007, 09:05 PM
In the proposed bill for licensing of home inspectors in GA, paragraph 43-39B-5 (b) says (in part):



I assume that the above refers to the NHIE. Is there another exam that meets the above proposed requirement? Please don't bother to list the ones that don't meet the standard.

What are the similar organizations to the one above?

The testing requirement is poorly worded, but it does leave it up to the board to choose what will be acceptable.

Yes, the NHIE meets those requirements. It is also the only non-association bias exam for home inspectors. I think that NAHI has been trying to get their exam validated as well, so they might be able to meet the requirements in the future. But for now it would be the NHIE.

Joseph P. Hagarty
05-24-2007, 10:54 PM
The testing requirement is poorly worded,.....

....the NHIE meets those requirements.

It is also the only non-association bias exam for home inspectors.

I think that NAHI has been trying to get their exam validated as well, so they might be able to meet the requirements in the future. But for now it would be the NHIE.

The NHIE (ASHI Exam) meets the Poorly worded requirements of a Non-Associational biased exam.

Interesting observation Scott.

I agree with you...

Scott Patterson
05-25-2007, 08:22 AM
The NHIE (ASHI Exam) meets the Poorly worded requirements of a Non-Associational biased exam.

Interesting observation Scott.

I agree with you...

The NHIE is not only used by ASHI as one of their membership exams. AII uses it for their exam, NAHI allows it, 2 municipalities and 19 States require it for their licensing exam.

If GA adopts HI licensing, that will mean that all of the Southern states, except for Florida will have home inspector licensing (VA is in the left field of licensing). I would bet that Governor Crist will sign the bill into law for Florida.

Rick Hurst
05-25-2007, 01:36 PM
They should all be required to have a license and have to carry E&O insurance.

Seems only fair. :p

Why should one state be any different from another, right?

Scott Patterson
05-25-2007, 01:53 PM
They should all be required to have a license and have to carry E&O insurance.

Seems only fair. :p

Why should one state be any different from another, right?

Yep, kind of like state required Car Insurance. Some have it and some don't.

Harvey Hempelstern
05-25-2007, 06:52 PM
Licensing solves nothing.

Rob Thomas
05-26-2007, 08:00 PM
Why does Bushart post here using the name Hemplestern and repeating his inane "licensing solves nothing" mantra?

It's just sad.

RT




Licensing solves nothing.

Deleted Account
05-26-2007, 08:02 PM
Does licensing solve anything?

Scott Patterson
05-27-2007, 09:40 AM
Does licensing solve anything?


Well, that would depend on how the law is written. A poorly written law(and we have a few stinkers) does nothing for anyone. A law that is written well, establishes a benchmark or an entry requirement for those who want to work in the profession. A good law offers a level of protection to the consumer and the home inspector; you do not have this in an unregulated environment.

If you are offering a service, you should be accountable for your actions if you screw-up. Conversely you should also be afforded a level of protection if you are properly performing to a set of required guidelines and or standards.

What is wrong with this?

Deleted Account
05-27-2007, 12:25 PM
Well, that would depend on how the law is written. A poorly written law(and we have a few stinkers) does nothing for anyone. A law that is written well, establishes a benchmark or an entry requirement for those who want to work in the profession. A good law offers a level of protection to the consumer and the home inspector; you do not have this in an unregulated environment.

If you are offering a service, you should be accountable for your actions if you screw-up. Conversely you should also be afforded a level of protection if you are properly performing to a set of required guidelines and or standards.

What is wrong with this?

Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you? Answer me this how is ASHI going to fix the screw-up in New York?

Licensing is about as useful as tits on a bull and you know it.

Rob Thomas
05-27-2007, 02:50 PM
Why does Burkeson ask a question and then berate the one person who was gracious enough to answer it?

Patterson should have known that anyone who uses the terms 'socialism' and 'porridge' in discussions about home inspection isn't likely to understand a cogent argument no matter how many times he sees it.

It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.

RT




Does licensing solve anything?

Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you? Answer me this how is ASHI going to fix the screw-up in New York?

Licensing is about as useful as tits on a bull and you know it.

Scott Patterson
05-27-2007, 03:59 PM
Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you? Answer me this how is ASHI going to fix the screw-up in New York?

Licensing is about as useful as tits on a bull and you know it.

Hi Joe,

Sounds like a little of the Napoleon syndrome!

I have nothing to gain or loose as states become licensed, but apparently you do.

As for what ASHI is going to do with the New York "Screwup" as you say. ASHI national does not get involved, with the individual states it is up to the folks in that state to take care of their own issues.

IMO, part of the problem in NY is that the inspectors let the PE's run over them. As with most licensing efforts, you will find that a small group of folks do the work while the majority sit back and watch. Come to think of it, that holds true with just about everything.

And it is "Teats on a Bull"! :D

Deleted Account
05-27-2007, 05:08 PM
It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.

RT


I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment, after all I am not just an ASHI member but I also sit on the board of my local chapter. In regards to boots... I wouldn't even let you shine mine.

Jack Feldmann
05-27-2007, 06:17 PM
I can only guess that some chapters are in such dire need for volunteers they will accept anyone to fill a position.

Deleted Account
05-27-2007, 07:08 PM
I can only guess that some chapters are in such dire need for volunteers they will accept anyone to fill a position.


To me it looks like the whole association is a bit dire these days, creating quite a mess for the profession at large and sticking their nose into places where it doesn't belong. :)

Thom Walker
05-27-2007, 08:37 PM
Why does Burkeson ask a question and then berate the one person who was gracious enough to answer it?

Patterson should have known that anyone who uses the terms 'socialism' and 'porridge' in discussions about home inspection isn't likely to understand a cogent argument no matter how many times he sees it.

It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.

RT

A blog where everyone agreed would be deservedly short lived. Grant it, most of the time Joe sounds like he graduated Summa cum laude from the Don Rickles school of charm. And most of the time it is clear that his motives for hating licensing are motivated by self serving reasons. That is not the same thing as his arguments having no merit and not worth consideration instead of automatic rejection.

It has been to the detriment of American society that anyone who opposes government regulation is quickly labeled a whiner and a nut case.

As a proponent of responsible licensing, those that accept it as it is; without question, deserve the consequences they may suffer. The weakness in Scott's argument is in his last sentence.

"Conversely you should also be afforded a level of protection if you are properly performing to a set of required guidelines and or standards."

"Should" is the operative word. In Texas, they have sought the right to suspend your license before you have been found guilty of anything. Yet I have seen no request for a means of compensating the Inspector should he be absolved. I think that means that the outcome is predetermined or at least presumed.

Consumers should be protected and fair and impartial licensing is a good way to do it. The question is, How do we get fair and impartial licensing authorities? What measures are in effect to keep consumers from making outrageous claims against Inspectors? Remember, it does not have to be your Client.

Rob Thomas
05-27-2007, 08:49 PM
I really don't mean to be critical, but this last post of yours is just gibberish.

Why would you post a message quoting me, and then state that you hope Scott addresses it? It seems that you would have had that discussion with Scott and just left me out of it until you and he had reached some kind of agreement.

And why did you reference ASHI in response to my comment? I didn't mention ASHI, or any other organization. I mean, it's just strange. You whine for years about ASHI involving itself in state licensing initiatives, and then when I opinie about the reasons an organization would RESIST licensing, the only organization you can think of is ASHI. That's just nonsense. What's more, everyone reading this knows it's nonsense.

And, after attempting to smear ASHI with your ridiculous statement: "I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment", why would you then boast about being a member of that organization, and why would you further boast about being a board member? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not impressed to learn that you are a board member of an organization you despise. That seems to me to be a miserable existence.

Finally, why would you assume that I would want to shine your boots? Did you think I would find such a comment from such an individual to be insulting? When you wrote that comment, did you imagine that people would think less of me, or less of you?

I really didn't intend to get into a contentious discussion here. I just wanted to know why Bushart was posting under the name of Hemplestern.

RT





I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment, after all I am not just an ASHI member but I also sit on the board of my local chapter. In regards to boots... I wouldn't even let you shine mine.

Rob Thomas
05-27-2007, 09:03 PM
Apparently, this message board has a feature called "Private Messages". I was surprised to see that someone had sent a private message to me, given I have been here for only a very short time.

I copied the message here, because I wanted everyone to benefit from Burkeson's insights, if not from his spelling and proofreading skills.

RT

You said... It's clear to me that the last thing members of an organization that manufactures its own credentials want is for the state to interfere with their little scam. That might limit the number of recruits for their 'boot camps'.


Ate you talking about ASHI?
__________________
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." ~ Thomas Jefferson

Jerry Peck
05-27-2007, 09:11 PM
Rob,

You will learn to ignore Joe's comments.

Basically he is against anything and everything that is not designed to help Joe out.

He's even against things designed to help him out if those things also help other out.

I tried to get to know Joe at some of the FABI meetings he came to, I even tried to help him in his fight with/against ASHI, but Joe would have no help if one does not think exactly like Joe thinks.

So I have learned to let him rant, occasionally I will prod him on, he is so much fun to watch rant on, especially about licensing ...

Oh, and guns, and ... :D

Deleted Account
05-27-2007, 09:41 PM
I really don't mean to be critical, but this last post of yours is just gibberish.

Why would you post a message quoting me, and then state that you hope Scott addresses it? It seems that you would have had that discussion with Scott and just left me out of it until you and he had reached some kind of agreement.

And why did you reference ASHI in response to my comment? I didn't mention ASHI, or any other organization. I mean, it's just strange. You whine for years about ASHI involving itself in state licensing initiatives, and then when I opinie about the reasons an organization would RESIST licensing, the only organization you can think of is ASHI. That's just nonsense. What's more, everyone reading this knows it's nonsense.

And, after attempting to smear ASHI with your ridiculous statement: "I just hope that Scott jumps in here to defend ASHI from your rude comment", why would you then boast about being a member of that organization, and why would you further boast about being a board member? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not impressed to learn that you are a board member of an organization you despise. That seems to me to be a miserable existence.

Finally, why would you assume that I would want to shine your boots? Did you think I would find such a comment from such an individual to be insulting? When you wrote that comment, did you imagine that people would think less of me, or less of you?

I really didn't intend to get into a contentious discussion here. I just wanted to know why Bushart was posting under the name of Hemplestern.

RT


What kind of troll are you?

Rob Thomas
05-27-2007, 10:12 PM
A better question would be: Why do you continue sending me private messages? What force on earth could convince you that I am interested in anything you could write?

I deleted the last unsolicited message you sent without reading it. If you are too ashamed of your literary efforts to post them here in an open forum, maybe you should keep them to yourself.

I apologize for having so little regard for your opinions and observations.

RT



What kind of troll are you?

Deleted Account
05-28-2007, 08:06 AM
I apologize for having so little regard for your opinions and observations.

RT

No apology necessary, it is a free country. So, let me guess, your belief in licensing has been shaken and now you are going to show all of us who oppose the government socialization of our profession a thing or two, right?

Please, share your pain, since licensing are there now more inspectors in your market performing inspections at 1/3 of your price or is it the burden of useless CEU's which do nothing but line the pockets of the training institutes that have you out of spirits? Or maybe it is the disgust over the thousands of dollars you pissed away on membership to an association who has lost touch with their members and no longer control the standards of practice for the profession?

Come on Rob tell us how licensing protects the public promotes the profession and creates profits to those stooges who are willing to exchange freedom for conformity. Life is a difficult game. You can win it only by retaining your birthright to be a person, good luck with yours.

Dan Harris
05-28-2007, 11:52 AM
[QUOTE=Jerry Peck;7051]Rob,

You will learn to ignore Joe's comments.

Basically he is against anything and everything that is not designed to help Joe out.

He's even against things designed to help him out if those things also help other out.



Joe has been an interesting guy to follow..
For years he was one of the most anti ASHI guys around, [ untill Bushart showed up]
It will be interesting to see what it will take to change his position on Licensing.:)

Thom Walker
05-28-2007, 01:06 PM
No apology necessary, it is a free country. So, let me guess, your belief in licensing has been shaken and now you are going to show all of us who oppose the government socialization of our profession a thing or two, right?

Rob, forgive me for interjecting. I recognize that you are capable of addressing Joe, or any of the rest of us who at some point may spit in your Cheerios. :) As one of the "stooges" I felt I had earned the right to comment.

Joe, I have defended your right to dissent on several occasions. I can't defend your right to ignorance, because you have no rights there. Usually, when someone expresses the level of disdain that you do for formal education and structure, it's an indication that they possess little of either.

Get some education so that you understand the basic concepts of governing. NOTHING you have ever ranted about has a damned thing to do with socialism. Licensing is not inherently Socialistic any more than ins is inherently unbridled Capitalism. The abuses of either throws them in and out of many social constructs.


Please, share your pain, since licensing are there now more inspectors in your market performing inspections at 1/3 of your price or is it the burden of useless CEU's which do nothing but line the pockets of the training institutes that have you out of spirits?

Please explain under what scenario that a restrictive construct like licensing actually increases the numbers of any trade or profession?

Regarding CEUs, you have to understand, Joe that you are the only human being who can't learn something because you already have the sum total of all knowledge. The rest of us might occasionally learn something, therefore not all CEUs are useless.

Or maybe it is the disgust over the thousands of dollars you pissed away on membership to an association who has lost touch with their members and no longer control the standards of practice for the profession?

I assume you refer to ASHI. News Flash, as much as they may sometimes want you to believe it, they never controlled the SOP, at least not in Texas.

Come on Rob tell us how licensing protects the public promotes the profession and creates profits to those stooges who are willing to exchange freedom for conformity. Life is a difficult game. You can win it only by retaining your birthright to be a person, good luck with yours.

Licensing does protect the public when it removes the licences of those who abuse the public trust. It does a disservice to the public when it becomes a profit center for a State's general fund and when the licensing authority hasn't the courage to stand up to politicians who would influence it for their own personal gain. It provides a disservice to the public and the licensee when it fails to provide real protections for both.

How does licensing create profits for us "stooges who would exchange freedom for conformity?" It doesn't, because licensing or the lack of licensing can't create profits. Factors like demand, supply, marketing skills, product quality, frivolous lawsuits, unfair taxation, stupid decisions, education levels, personality, working habits, etc. all can create profits. There are more inspectors because there is a perceived need for them and a perception that it a trade that some feel will earn them a better living than they make at whatever they are currently doing. There are more doing inspections at 1/3 of someone else's price because 1. there are more inspectors and 2. because the majority of self employed persons are not very good businessmen, at least not in the beginning. They erroneously think they can make up their losses with volume.

To equate freedom with non conformity is a child's argument. Nonconformity may be a privilege of freedom, but it by no means defines freedom. As you obviously don't (won't) understand the differences between socialism, capitalism. communism, and autocracy, neither do you choose to recognize the critical differences between freedom and anarchy.

Deleted Account
05-28-2007, 01:19 PM
Thom,

I am not here to provide you with a platform whereby you can spout your pro-licensing propaganda or to provide you with talking-points. My agenda is simply to express the other side as succinctly and often as possible.

Just so that we understand one another, I'll not be answering your questions in regards to home inspector licensing, nor do I care what opinion you and yours might have of me. As far as my education and ability to freely think goes, my guess is that it will be able to keep up any deep thoughts you might come up with. :)

Joe.

Jerry Peck
05-28-2007, 01:25 PM
... ability to freely think ...

Joe, you have every right to freely think, but some day, you should try to 'think freely'. :D

Without all that baggage you are carrying around clogging up what you are thinking. :eek:

Harvey Hempelstern
05-28-2007, 08:06 PM
You can attack the messenger all you want, but it does not change the facts that Mr. Burkeson has presented. No matter how hard you might wish it to be different, licensing has solved nothing.

For the proponent who supported it in order to limit his competition...he found brand new schools pumping out hundreds more.

For the proponent who supported it to "enhance the profession"...he found minimal standards becoming the definition of "qualified and competent" inspectors.

For the proponent who (chuckle) sought to "protect the consumer"...he still finds evening news reports in May and November that reveal shoddy home inspections.

Not one single proponent of licensing - anywhere at any time - has provided documented evidence that a problem that existed prior to a HI licensing law was eliminated by enacting that law.

Licensing solves nothing...and no one can prove otherwise.

Jack Feldmann
05-29-2007, 04:33 AM
When I moved to Knoxville in 1994 there were ten home inspectors in my area, and two other ASHI members.

Prior to licensing in July 2006, there were about 50 inspectors and close to 20 ASHI members.


When licensing took affect, a few established inspectors quit the business (1 moved out of state). A bunch of new guys (and girls) started up. As of a week ago, I counted 71 licensed inspectors in my area (an a couple unlicensed ones). ASHI picked up a few new members along the way too.

There are two things licensing did for the profession here. It made all the new guys take the NHIE, and required ALL inspectors to have E&O insurance.

While many may argue that the NHIE is very easy (too easy?), it's probably the best exam out there. Passing it at least proves that the inspector has some basic inspection knowledge. It is way better than what we had before, which was grab a flashlight, print some cards, and get going.

While the issue of insurance has been battered around here many times before, there is one positive aspect of requiring it. It places a financial commitment on the inspector. Regardless of how we as inspectors feel about it, I think it does give the average Joe Public a feeling of comfort.

Licensing has not made much of an impact on my business. The fee for my license is minimal, and I always carried insurance anyway. The increased number of inspectors has maybe made an impact, but not much.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens to the numbers when we have to send in our insurance renewals. I'm going to guess there will be a bunch of inspectors drop out when they have to shell out another $4000 for insurance this year, and they try to balance it out with how much business they got this past year.

Licensing did not change the way I did inspections, or conducted myself in any way, except I now have a signature page in my report, and include a copy of my license.

JF

Deleted Account
05-29-2007, 06:32 AM
I think it will be interesting to see what happens to the numbers when we have to send in our insurance renewals. I'm going to guess there will be a bunch of inspectors drop out when they have to shell out another $4000 for insurance this year, and they try to balance it out with how much business they got this past year.



I always thought you were a two-faced charlatan, thanks for proving me right. Your confession that you expect licensing and all that goes with it will reduce your competition warms my heart and drives home the point that licensing solves nothing. I suggest that you work on improving your skill set instead of attempting to hide behind bad licensing laws to keep you in business.

Legislation has a way of disappointing its staunches supporters whereas improving one's skills is like chopping wood, it warms you twice.

Scott Patterson
05-29-2007, 07:55 AM
I always thought you were a two-faced charlatan, thanks for proving me right. Your confession that you expect licensing and all that goes with it will reduce your competition warms my heart and drives home the point that licensing solves nothing. I suggest that you work on improving your skill set instead of attempting to hide behind bad licensing laws to keep you in business.

Legislation has a way of disappointing its staunches supporters whereas improving one's skills is like chopping wood, it warms you twice.

Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you?

Those that fear licensing have the most to loose!

Deleted Account
05-29-2007, 08:21 AM
Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you?

Those that fear licensing have the most to loose!


First of all... Do I really look or act afraid to you? Get a grip.

Scott Patterson
05-29-2007, 08:42 AM
First of all... Do I really look or act afraid to you? Get a grip.

It would appear so!

Those that fear licensing have the most too loose!

Deleted Account
05-29-2007, 08:51 AM
It would appear so!

Those that fear licensing have the most to loose!


Dream on oh bloviated one there is nothing to fear but fear itself. :)

When will you guys learn that licensing solves nothing!

Scott Patterson
05-29-2007, 01:29 PM
Dream on oh bloviated one there is nothing to fear but fear itself. :)

When will you guys learn that licensing solves nothing!

Oh, Yes it does. It would make you a really pissed off person! :D

Those that fear licensing have the most too loose!

Thom Walker
05-29-2007, 01:49 PM
Scott,

You need either one more "o* in "to" or one less "o" in "lose." In the case of what you meant, either would work.:D

Jerry Peck
05-29-2007, 02:17 PM
that a problem that existed prior to a HI licensing law was eliminated by enacting that law.

Let me get this straight, then, ...

*YOU* have documented evidence which shows there are problems existing in home inspections?

*YOU* have no solution for those document problems other than to continue the status quo.

*YOU* have no reason to believe the status quo of home inspection problems will change ...

... "with or without" licensing, yet *YOU* are unwilling to try something which "might" be able to alter the status quo and solve a few problems?

What does that make *YOU*? One of the participants of those home inspection problems who are afraid *YOUR WAY* would be altered for some potential benefit?

I know, I know, ...

YOU will respond with something about 'licensing does not solve problems' while ignoring the fact that NOT HAVING licensing has been proven to 'not solve problems' too.

Please provide your answer, I can't wait to see it.

Deleted Account
05-29-2007, 05:06 PM
YOU will respond with something about 'licensing does not solve problems' while ignoring the fact that NOT HAVING licensing has been proven to 'not solve problems' too.



I believe what we have here is a perfect example of... "First do no harm" clause as outlined by Hippocrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates) around 450 BC in a document we now call the Hippocratic Oath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath).

At this time there is no creditable evidence that licensing solves anything, what we do know is that in general when a state adopts licensing there is in a very short time more inspectors in that state because a path to inspector status was provided by the state and beyond that those newly licensed inspectors have a skill set far below the average skill set of the inspector pool prior to licensing.

Furthermore, we are also very aware that in 90% of the cases the standards adopted by the state are far below the currently accepted professional standards. This has the effect of actually lowering the "standard of care" the public now receives under licensing.

All in all the legislators would be wise to study Hippocrates prior to making any hasty decisions in regards to home inspector licensing.

Jerry, I would like to thank you for providing a platform for the discussion of home inspector licensing and its failures to date.


Fearlessly, :)

Joe Burkeson

Harvey Hempelstern
05-29-2007, 05:41 PM
Let me get this straight, then, ...

*YOU* are unwilling to try something which "might" be able to alter the status quo and solve a few problems?

Mr. Peck,

*YOUR* solution of licensing has already been tried --- and has subsequently failed --- in over 18 states, to date. What makes you think the 19th state will be any different?

Indeed, I am unwilling to marry a woman with 18 ex-husbands. I hope your Governor is, too.

Jerry Peck
05-29-2007, 05:46 PM
I believe what we have here is a perfect example of... "First do no harm" clause as outlined by Hippocrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates) around 450 BC in a document we now call the Hippocratic Oath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath).

However, for those civilizations which have progressed beyond 450 BC, once 'First, do no harm" has failed because if inaction, the alternative is action, doing as little harm as possible while trying to control the blight.

Thus, throughout the centuries, the survival of the masses many times leads to pain for a few. Not referring to human sacrifices, but to the fact that to protect many, a few may, regrettably, be hurt.

Civilization as we know it, as you know it, and as you enjoy it, is not possible without some being hurt, and other feeling hurt, whether they are hurt or not.

To save the patient, a leg is amputated ... first, do no harm ... then save the patient ...

Refusing to amputate a leg because you want to do no harm could be negligence and malpractice.

Harvey Hempelstern
05-29-2007, 05:47 PM
Refusing to amputate a leg because you want to do no harm could be negligence and malpractice.

Amputating YOUR leg because MY nose is running is not a solution, either. Licensing solves nothing.

Scott Patterson
05-29-2007, 05:50 PM
Joe,

Wow, now that is an improvement. We knew that you could do it!


Mr. Peck,
*YOUR* solution of licensing has already been tried --- and has subsequently failed --- in over 18 states, to date. What makes you think the 19th state will be any different?

Indeed, I am unwilling to marry a woman with 18 ex-husbands. I hope your Governor is, too

Now if we could only get Harvey Bushart to figure it out. Heck he thinks that only 18 states are licensed! I think at last count it was around 33 states with either regulation or licensing (Yes, and about 7 or so are real stinkers).

Resistance is Futile!

Deleted Account
05-29-2007, 05:56 PM
Refusing to amputate a leg because you want to do no harm could be negligence and malpractice.


Let me just say this and leave it at that... A man has gotta know his limitations. The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein



Fearlessly :)

Joe Burkeson

Jerry Peck
05-29-2007, 06:02 PM
Let me just say this and leave it at that... A man has gotta know his limitations. The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

And refusing to amputate ones own head would be one of those limits, but not ones own leg.

Like that guy caught in that rock a couple of years ago. He had two choices: 1) Die there. 2) Amputate his own arm off.

The one lacking genius dies there, the other lives on.

Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump :D

Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. Forrest Gump :cool:

Harvey Hempelstern
05-29-2007, 06:06 PM
Heck he thinks that only 18 states are licensed! I think at last count it was around 33 states with------------- either regulation ----------------or licensing (Yes, and about 7 or so are real stinkers).

Resistance is Futile!

Scott,

I am surprised that you would endorse the demise of your own association who pushes its only real benefit - that being a provider of "credentials" - as an alternative to licensing. To me, seeing ASHI membership dwindle with each law that is passed is the only positive thing to come from licensing...but that is for another thread.

There is a difference between registration and licensing. My numbers, as stated, are very close to being accurate...depending upon how one would interpret the laws of a couple of states.

Illinois already has as many unlicensed inspectors operating as licensed inspectors writing reports and the state has no means or desire to enforce this marketing plan...I mean...law. It's starting to happen in Tennessee, too.

People are asking themselves why they should carry the burden while others ignore it.

Not only is resistance not futile...but resistance to laws in place are already gaining momentum to the degree that it is repeal...not licensing...that is truly inevitable.

Jack Feldmann
05-29-2007, 06:39 PM
Joe,
I'm not sure what part of my post made you think that I was a " a two-faced charlatan". I was just making an observation, and commenting on something that licensing did for the state.

Licensing DID require everyone to pass a test AND have insurance. I think that is positive. As I said, it is better than the old way.

I have been up front and honest with ALL of my posts on this forum. That is a lot more than I can say for some others here.

I think you should look in the mirror when you call someone "two faced". Not that long ago you were bashing ASHI every chance you got, now you are bashing NACHI with the same venom, and adding your claim to fame of being on the BOD of your local Chapter. I can only wonder what could be wrong with that chapter to not only allow you to be a member, but to want you to serve in a leadership position. It reminds me of a book written by John Kennedy Toole.

Speaking of charlatans - someone that won't post under their own name. What a joke.
JF

Deleted Account
05-29-2007, 07:07 PM
I think you should look in the mirror when you call someone "two faced". Not that long ago you were bashing ASHI every chance you got, now you are bashing NACHI with the same venom, and adding your claim to fame of being on the BOD of your local Chapter. I can only wonder what could be wrong with that chapter to not only allow you to be a member, but to want you to serve in a leadership position.



I don't allow anyone to dictate how my life is lived and it appears that my style of leadership is apparently attractive to many as I not only sit on a local ASHI board but on the prestigious Leadership Hillsborough (http://www.leadershiphillsborough.com/) board also. Don't look now but I have also been asked to join the National ASHI legislative Committee, I've been told my voice is in demand, something about not being pussy whipped.

Your behavior which I described as two-faced is predicated on how you preach that HI licensing somehow protects the consumer in one breath then how HI licensing reduces your competition and protects your market in another.

You call yourself loyal ASHI brother but it appears to me that all you want to do is put people out of work, you should be ashamed of yourself. Tell me what have you done for your community or association lately? I have a laundry list of items with many hours devoted to local ASHI training, ask anyone, then bug off.





Fearlessly, :)

Joe Burkeson.

Rob Thomas
05-29-2007, 07:48 PM
At this time there is no creditable evidence that licensing solves anything, what we do know is that in general when a state adopts licensing there is in a very short time more inspectors in that state because a path to inspector status was provided by the state and beyond that those newly licensed inspectors have a skill set far below the average skill set of the inspector pool prior to licensing.

I think you mean “credible” evidence. It’s hard to make a convincing argument when you don’t understand the language.

Furthermore, we are also very aware that in 90% of the cases the standards adopted by the state are far below the currently accepted professional standards. This has the effect of actually lowering the "standard of care" the public now receives under licensing.

That’s gibberish. The only “currently accepted professional standards” are those in the ASHI SoP, and most states have adopted a standard that deviates very little from it. State licensing doesn’t change the applicable standard to any measurable degree, it changes the level of accountability.

And, by the way, if the “we” to whom you refer are you and Bushart, then no one will have any confidence in the data you regurgitate or your ability to analyze it.

RT

Rob Thomas
05-29-2007, 08:11 PM
Scott,

I am surprised that you would endorse the demise of your own association who pushes its only real benefit - that being a provider of "credentials" - as an alternative to licensing. To me, seeing ASHI membership dwindle with each law that is passed is the only positive thing to come from licensing...but that is for another thread.

Bushart, your analytical powers haven’t improved with your name change. ASHI will continue quite nicely I’m sure, because the best in any business always want to associate with the best. Your little group of pretenders at NACHI will do ok and will always be larger, because most of the room in any pyramid is at the bottom.

If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don’t, you would know that ASHI resisted licensing because it invariably lowered the bar to a point that only the newest non-proctored, online test-taker couldn’t reach it. ASHI offered model legislation that mirrored its own requirements, so that licensing would have real value for consumers. The people who resist the ASHI model are you and your ilk who can’t hope to meet the requirements.

I must say I agree with your decision. If I had a tag line as stupid as “licensing solves nothing”, I’d change my name too.

RT

Rob Thomas
05-29-2007, 08:19 PM
I don't allow anyone to dictate how my life is lived and it appears that my style of leadership is apparently attractive to many as I not only sit on a local ASHI board but on the prestigious Leadership Hillsborough (http://www.leadershiphillsborough.com/) board also.

How prestigious can it be when it’s a “volunteer” board? What a joke. You involve yourself in local activities to network, hoping you might squeeze one or two inspections out of the people who don’t know you too well. Trolling for business is hardly a community service.

RT

From the website: Leadership Hillsborough is a non-profit organization governed by a volunteer Board of Directors.

It was founded in 1989 to promote harmonious relations and enhance communication by unifying all sectors of Hillsborough County through encouraging interaction among business, professional and community-oriented individuals.

Jerry Peck
05-29-2007, 08:33 PM
Blow me!

Wow!

Coming from someone who usually tags their spiels with "Fearlessly".

Seems like someone just put the fear of something in you.

All I can say is ... Wow! A new low ... even for Joe B.

Rob Thomas
05-29-2007, 08:35 PM
I can't. I'm too busy laughing at you.

Maybe you could volunteer for the Supreme Court. That would really look good on your resume.

RT



Blow me!

Jerry Peck
05-29-2007, 08:35 PM
This thread does seem to have degenerated into a pissing match and it may be time for the thread to 'disappear' and allow everyone to cool their heels a bit.

What do y'all think?

Richard Rushing
05-29-2007, 09:04 PM
All I can say is Rob T... where have you been, boy. You been gone much too long.

This stuff is like watching people with Tourette Syndrome F@(+ ... it ain't fun to watch but is entertaining as hell!! :D

Heck... this thread hasn't disentigrated enough yet.

Jack Feldmann
05-29-2007, 09:09 PM
Joe,
You need to read my post again. I was making observations (about insurance). First of all, I don't think there is anyone in business that wouldn't mind having fewer businesses in competition. That said, I would never do anyting to try to put someone OUT of business. For you to suggest so shows just how much you don't know me at all.

As far as what I have done for my association and community? Get real! I think you would have to work overtime to get even close to my involvement with ASHI.
Just off the top:
president Mid South Chapter
COR rep for 4 years
founding president east Tennessee Chapter
3 years ASHI director
vice president East TN ASHI - 2 terms
Cor rep for 2 years
Served on national committees 1994 - 2004 every year
report verifier for 4 years
instructor for paid verifiers
education chair for East TN ASHI
Served on various projects for EBPHI
Officer nominating committee
mentoring program @ East TN ASHI
I'm sure there's more...

As far as community..
Various church committees - youth, etc.
Habitat
Fight for Diabetes
Teach non credit class at UT
Teach Realtor continuing ed class
Local community business association

again, just a few off the top

I take many many guys on ride alongs, or mentor them over the phone or e-mail, and not just ASHI guys. Have been doing this for a decade.

There, I showed you mine.
JF

ESAFT

Thom Walker
05-29-2007, 09:15 PM
Richard,
As the brother of a guy with polio, I hope you'll reconsider before ever saying something that ignorant again. It is far beneath who I imagine you strive to be.

I promise you, there is nothing entertaining about it.

Rob Thomas
05-29-2007, 09:52 PM
Thanks.

RT


[quote=Richard Rushing;7295]All I can say is Rob T... where have you been, boy. You been gone much too long.

Harvey Hempelstern
05-30-2007, 03:17 AM
What do y'all think?

I think that, since you have obviously lost your argument, you now would prefer that this thread disappear so as to do with censorship what you could not accomplish in debate. Attempts made by others to distract the conversation from the facts relating to the topic and turn this discussion into personal attacks should simply be ignored.

Thanks for asking.

Thom Walker
05-30-2007, 04:37 AM
I think that, since you have obviously lost your argument, you now would prefer that this thread disappear so as to do with censorship what you could not accomplish in debate. Attempts made by others to distract the conversation from the facts relating to the topic and turn this discussion into personal attacks should simply be ignored.

Thanks for asking.

I tried to debate by giving my position and by answering Joe's accusations/assumptions. I asked one question.

Please explain under what scenario that a restrictive construct like licensing actually increases the numbers of any trade or profession?

The answer I got was:

"I am not here to provide you with a platform whereby you can spout your pro-licensing propaganda or to provide you with talking-points. My agenda is simply to express the other side as succinctly and often as possible.

Just so that we understand one another, I'll not be answering your questions in regards to home inspector licensing, nor do I care what opinion you and yours might have of me. As far as my education and ability to freely think goes, my guess is that it will be able to keep up any deep thoughts you might come up with. "

So much for debate. A debate involves expressing your reasons for you opinions followed by an EXCHANGE of ideas based on an answerable question. It's not digging a trench and hurling your opinions at the other side.

Rob Thomas
05-30-2007, 05:05 AM
Thom, what you don't seem to realize is that Burkeson and Bushart (who is so ashamed of himself that he now uses the name Hemplestern) have no facts on which to base their assertions. They are simply NACHI shills.

And pretty sorry ones at that.

RT



I tried to debate by giving my position and by answering Joe's accusations/assumptions. I asked one question.

Please explain under what scenario that a restrictive construct like licensing actually increases the numbers of any trade or profession?

The answer I got was:

"I am not here to provide you with a platform whereby you can spout your pro-licensing propaganda or to provide you with talking-points. My agenda is simply to express the other side as succinctly and often as possible.

Just so that we understand one another, I'll not be answering your questions in regards to home inspector licensing, nor do I care what opinion you and yours might have of me. As far as my education and ability to freely think goes, my guess is that it will be able to keep up any deep thoughts you might come up with. "

So much for debate. A debate involves expressing your reasons for you opinions followed by an EXCHANGE of ideas based on an answerable question. It's not digging a trench and hurling your opinions at the other side.

Jerry Peck
05-30-2007, 05:26 AM
I think that, since you have obviously lost your argument, you now would prefer that this thread disappear so as to do with censorship what you could not accomplish in debate.

Harvey, Jim, Billy Bob, Jim Bob, Bobby Joe, whoever you are,

No, I have not lost my argument, I was offering a way for this to go away for Joe after his grade school remark.

As for "censorship", that is done *without asking*, I asked.

If the majority do not want to relent and give old Joe B. a reprieve, and to get this back to cooler heads, there is no "censorship", and, if they do, there STILL IS no "censorship" - it's called 'democratic action', but those from some association(s) do not know what 'democratic action' is, only 'dictatorship' rules to follow.

You can be your own guide through the forest, but here's a hint for you finding your way out: Once half way in, you might as well keep going, it's just as long to go back the way you went in.

Deleted Account
05-30-2007, 05:53 AM
Thom, what you don't seem to realize is that Burkeson and Bushart (who is so ashamed of himself that he now uses the name Hemplestern) have no facts on which to base their assertions. They are simply NACHI shills.

And pretty sorry ones at that.

RT

I would prefer to be known as an ASHI shill if you don't mind. :)

I say keep the BS coming, this thread shows the weakness of the licensing Nazis in all their glory, the best they could do is attack the messenger. This thread and the attacks I have received here changes nothing. Licensing is still the worst way to attempt to control your competition or your market share and in the end we will begin to see these bad laws repealed.

Fearlessly, :D

Joe Burkeson

Thom Walker
05-30-2007, 06:43 AM
Thom, what you don't seem to realize is that Burkeson and Bushart (who is so ashamed of himself that he now uses the name Hemplestern) have no facts on which to base their assertions. They are simply NACHI shills.

And pretty sorry ones at that.

RT
Thanks for your response, Rob.

I'm pretty sure that everyone understands that there is no way of "winning" this argument with either guy. I do realize who they are and I understand that both are capable only of inductive reasoning. It's the only thing that allows them to hold onto their opinions. Ex: There were bad inspectors before licensing, there are bad inspectors after licensing. Conclusion, licensing is ineffective. Ex: There were fewer inspectors before licensing. Conclusion, licensing increases the number of inspectors.
I thought I'd pitch in a question that couldn't be supported by inductive reasoning because there is no anecdotal incident to support their conclusion. Not surprisingly, I did not get an answer.
Anyway, the link has deteriorated sufficiently that I'm out of here.
As I know at least one really good Inspector who is also a NACHI member, I'll decline painting that group with such a wide brush.

Bob White
05-30-2007, 07:16 AM
Back to the thread.


This has gone under the radar. Georgia General Assembly - SB 334 (http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2007_08/search/sb334.htm)

Does anyone have any information about this legislation? On the surface it looks like a fairly good bill.

The bill was written/sponsored by a state senator from Gwinnett County (no other sponsors)....

It was read and assigned to the appropriate committee on April 19.

It has to go through the committee process, a senate debate, vote, then to the house for debate, re-drafting, debate, vote, then to another committee for final changes etcetera, etcetera, etcetera......


The bill is so young, it has sparked virtually no interest yet in Georgia (in contrast to the 'spirited' discussion here).

It is, I think, the second try for some sort of regulation of HI's here in GA. The first bill died a few years ago ( I believe it was sort of a companion to the General Contractor licensing bill that was passed a few years ago).

Is it a 'good' bill? I don't know. Good or bad, I think it is certainly not worth the venom displayed in this forum.



I take myself seriously from time to time, then I remember how small I am.

Brian Hannigan
05-30-2007, 07:55 AM
Since I have received several e-mails from members asking me to watch this thread I will post the InspectionNews Rules/Agreement below.

Bob, thank you for getting the thread back on topic.



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Rob Thomas
05-30-2007, 09:58 PM
Brian,

If you are willing to allow Burkeson free rein to spew his obnoxious comments to anyone and everyone who is good enough to acknowledge him, you shouldn’t be surprised when the conversation deteriorates. On top of that, you have Bushart/ Hempelstern calling your participants “hooligans” on the toxic wasteland that is the NACHI board, and then using your service to spread his all-consuming fear of licensing. Don’t blame me when I expose these thugs for who and what they are.

You didn’t ask for my advice, but it would be to add to the quality of your message board by subtraction.

RT


Burkeson asked: Does licensing solve anything?

And to Patterson’s response he wrote: Blah,blah,blah. I've heard it all before, nothing to back it up but wishful thinking on your part, please get some new material would you? Answer me this how is ASHI going to fix the screw-up in New York?

Licensing is about as useful as tits on a bull and you know it.

To Feldmann from Burkeson: I always thought you were a two-faced charlatan, thanks for proving me right. Your confession that you expect licensing and all that goes with it will reduce your competition warms my heart and drives home the point that licensing solves nothing. I suggest that you work on improving your skill set instead of attempting to hide behind bad licensing laws to keep you in business.

Then this to Feldmann: You call yourself loyal ASHI brother but it appears to me that all you want to do is put people out of work, you should be ashamed of yourself. Tell me what have you done for your community or association lately? I have a laundry list of items with many hours devoted to local ASHI training, ask anyone, then bug off.

He continued his downward spiral with this: Blow me!

And completed it by calling anyone who disagrees with him a Nazi: I say keep the BS coming, this thread shows the weakness of the licensing Nazis in all their glory, the best they could do is attack the messenger. This thread and the attacks I have received here changes nothing. Licensing is still the worst way to attempt to control your competition or your market share and in the end we will begin to see these bad laws repealed.

Jack Feldmann
05-31-2007, 04:13 AM
Joe,
I've yet to see your laundry list (of your vast involvement in ASHI training).
JF

Rob,
I think if Brian were to ban some of these folks, they would find a way to re-enter under an assumed name, and start spreading their vitriolic rhetoric once again.
Jack

Scott Patterson
05-31-2007, 08:30 AM
Joe,
I've yet to see your laundry list (of your vast involvement in ASHI training).
JF

Rob,
I think if Brian were to ban some of these folks, they would find a way to re-enter under an assumed name, and start spreading their vitriolic rhetoric once again.
Jack

Now if you have a problem with a particular person(s) you can add them to your ignore list. This is a new feature that the board has.

Harvey Hempelstern
05-31-2007, 02:44 PM
Ignore the people you choose to, but the facts do not change.

Licensing solves nothing.

Jerry Peck
05-31-2007, 05:07 PM
Licensing solves nothing.

Doing nothing solves nothing.

Doing ANYTHING ELSE is an attempt to solve it.

Harvey Hempelstern
05-31-2007, 05:12 PM
One of the funniest stories collected among the many failures of the licensing effort comes from New Jersey where a state senator got a bad inspection (says it cost him $100,000) and went to work on making a law...initially, one of the toughest in the country. Once it was passed, the very first license was issued to the guy who inspected his house. Seems that the grandfathering clause saved his bacon.

Then there was the inspector in Massachusetts credited for the media push for licensing in that state. Multi-inspector firm that had a string of lawsuits a mile long. Licensing becomes law and....guess who gets a seat on the state licensing board. LOL

It's great.....and all goes to prove....licensing solves nothing.

Jack Feldmann
05-31-2007, 06:19 PM
Harv,
As I said before..In TN licensing did provide that all licensed HI's will have E&O insurance. THAT solved something.

In TN licensing provided that all inspectors would have passed the NHIE. THAT solved something.

Now, it may not have solved whatever is on your agenda, but it did, at the very least, make all inspectors meet those two criteria. Now if Joe Public is any safer because of that - I don't know. But it DID solve those two concerns. Those two concerns were the highest on the list of requirements that the Realtors and Builders wanted.

As a home inspector that fought licensing for almost a decade in TN, those two things were something I could certainly live with. They were not unreasonable requirements.

As I said before, licensing has not really changed the way I do business at all, except for the fee for the license.

I guess the big question is what will you (and Joe) do when licensing comes into effect in your state? Will you get a license? Will you quit the business? Will you continue in business and break the law?

Like it or not, no matter how hard you fight, at some point you might just find yourself in a licensed state. I would like to know what your plans are.
JF

Deleted Account
05-31-2007, 08:24 PM
Joe,
I've yet to see your laundry list (of your vast involvement in ASHI training).
JF


I never let my left hand know what my right hand is doing. :)



Rob,
I think if Brian were to ban some of these folks, they would find a way to re-enter under an assumed name, and start spreading their vitriolic rhetoric once again.
Jack
Not true, we would leave and this place would become a ghost town like the TIJ board... crickets.

It is only vitriolic rhetoric if your a licensing Nazi, otherwise its is representative patriotic discord.

Fearlessly,

Joe Burkeson

Jack Feldmann
06-01-2007, 04:17 AM
"I never let my left hand know what my right hand is doing."
So in other words - YOU GOT NOTHING.

"Not true, we would leave and this place would become a ghost town like the TIJ board... crickets."

I think many of us would welcome the silence. Why not give it a try?

"I would rather have some crickets than be infested with lice" - The Bug Man 1967

Harvey Hempelstern
06-01-2007, 04:40 AM
Joe,

They start threads on state legislation...and call for the banning of those who oppose it. Bless their hearts.

Losing this debate should be almost second nature to them, by now.

Someone posted earlier the "logic" that passing a law requiring the NHIE "solved" the problem of not having the NHIE. They admit that it may have done nothing to improve the quality of home inspections, but they have at least "solved" the problem of not having the NHIE. I'm going to refer to that, often.

I think we should leave these folks alone for a while. Their frustration over having no argument to defend their illogic is making them a bit testy.

Deleted Account
06-01-2007, 06:36 AM
I think we should leave these folks alone for a while. Their frustration over having no argument to defend their illogic is making them a bit testy.


Agreed, but not before I inject a bit of freethought logic of my own.


We all know the notion that licensing somehow raises the bar is at best just a straw man argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) that has never been proven to be true. The reality is that legislators set the bar so low that those who would have never thought to have become home inspectors are found filling up classrooms and taking exams just to enter our profession.

Plain old unfettered American capitalism does a much better job of ridding our profession of undesirables then any law has up to this date. This profession is still mostly a referral business and regardless whether your referrals come by word of mouth or through other sources such as Realtors the truth is... incompetent and unskilled home inspectors do not last for very long in our profession. Capitalism has time & time again just proven itself to be a better defender of the public than legislation in regards to eliminating inexperienced, uneducated and non-skilled inspectors from the general pool of home inspectors.

Rob Thomas
06-01-2007, 08:48 AM
According to Godwin's Law, which I'm sure he will need to research at Wiki, Burkeson loses again.

He should certainly be used to it by now.

RT






It is only vitriolic rhetoric if your a licensing Nazi, otherwise its is representative patriotic discord.

Fearlessly,

Joe Burkeson

Rob Thomas
06-01-2007, 09:01 AM
Bushart is so mentally challenged that he doesn't know the difference between opinion and fact. But then, what should be expected from someone who is too ashamed to use his own name when he posts here.

I say, if you have an argument that supports your position, Bushart, make it. Maybe you will convince someone (and maybe pigs will fly).

You won't, because you can't. You lost any credibility you had when you attempted to deceive the good people here by posting under an assumed name.

RT





Ignore the people you choose to, but the facts do not change.

Licensing solves nothing.

Deleted Account
06-01-2007, 05:28 PM
According to Godwin's Law, which I'm sure he will need to research at Wiki, Burkeson loses again.

He should certainly be used to it by now.

RT



I have nothing to lose should licensing become a reality I will simply become licensed, end of story. You are the big loser here, because it is you who has pinned your future on licensing to "raise the bar" and limit your competition, a marketing plan doomed to failure.

My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell. :D

Jack Feldmann
06-01-2007, 06:45 PM
"We all know the notion that licensing somehow raises the bar is at best just a straw man argument that has never been proven to be true."

WOW! Is that not the pot calling the kettle black?

I believe I have proven it to be true. HI's in TN were not required to have insurance prior to 7/1/06. They were not required to have passed ANY exam prior to 7/1/06.

Since these two requirements were part of the licensing bill, I submit that (even if you don't think the NHIE is a valid test ) the bar WAS RAISED.

I don't believe these two requirements are such a hardship that it really restricts someone from entering the profession.

"...due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan." I don't believe ANYONE here has posted that they put licensing as any part of their business plan, much less a primary support pillar. I know I HAVEN'T! IN fact, licensing isn't even mentioned in my business plan.

"Tell me what have you done for your community or association lately? I have a laundry list of items with many hours devoted to local ASHI training, ask anyone, then bug off." Well Joe, I did tell you what I have done for my community and ASHI lately - I've yet to see your "laundry list". I did ask some FL people and got NOTHING with regards to your "many hours".

Since you did not respond, I have to assume you are woefully short with your list. You and harv will be missed.
JF

Deleted Account
06-01-2007, 06:51 PM
Since you did not respond, I have to assume you are woefully short with your list. You and harv will be missed.
JF




Asked & answered. The only way you are going to miss me is if you move away. Jack, I came to play and I'm here to stay, get friggin' used to it already. :)

Licensing is a pox upon our profession and I will continue to pick at the scab whenever possible.

Fearlessly,

Joe Burkeson

Jack Feldmann
06-01-2007, 08:06 PM
Sorry, I misunderstood I guess. When you said "Not true, we would leave and this place would become a ghost town like the TIJ board... crickets." I just assumed you were planning on taking off, to leave the rest of us listening to the crickets. My mistake.

Not sure I understand your "asked and answered" comment. You implied that you had a laundry list of your vast accomplishments.

I guess I have to assume you are either a liar or fraud, or possibly both, since you have not come forth with your list.

If you want to be known as a scab picker, so be it.
JF

Deleted Account
06-01-2007, 09:58 PM
Sorry, I misunderstood I guess. When you said "Not true, we would leave and this place would become a ghost town like the TIJ board... crickets." I just assumed you were planning on taking off, to leave the rest of us listening to the crickets. My mistake.

Not sure I understand your "asked and answered" comment. You implied that you had a laundry list of your vast accomplishments.

I guess I have to assume you are either a liar or fraud, or possibly both, since you have not come forth with your list.

If you want to be known as a scab picker, so be it.
JF


I said I never let my left hand know what my right hand is doing, furthermore I don't owe you anything not a laundry list, not even a how do you do, you are just attempting to pick a fight over losing any argument in regards to home inspector licensing. I never lie, there is never any need.

You & yours are simply pissed off that all your efforts to advance your restrictive home inspector licensing agenda has been an abject failure. But what really makes your head spin is knowing that the all efforts of a organized licensing coalition that has spent thousands of dollars and expended hundreds of man hours pushing legislation like a crack-whore can have their whole house of cards come tumbling down around their asses with very little effort from the opposition.

What irks you and causes you to lose sleep is the fact it is so much easier to prevent a bill from passing into law then to get one passed, I laugh at your feeble and weak forays into state politics thinking you have crossed all your t's and dotted all of your i's only to see it all be flushed down the toilet year after year. It is you who are the fraud & liar, sadly it is yourself who you have been lying to all these years, nobody else really cares.

Licensing is a pox upon our profession and I will continue to pick at the scab whenever possible.

JB

Rob Thomas
06-01-2007, 09:59 PM
I have nothing to lose should licensing become a reality I will simply become licensed, end of story. You are the big loser here, because it is you who has pinned your future on licensing to "raise the bar" and limit your competition, a marketing plan doomed to failure.

RT: Why do you waste your time writing such foolishness here? You don’t know how I earn my living; you don’t know how I spend my time; and you obviously have no idea what my position is re: state licensing of home inspectors. Oddly, your vast ignorance hasn’t diminished in the least your willingness to publish your opinions, all of which are based on nothing.

My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell.

RT: I have $10,000 I’m willing to wager that you’re wrong about what I’ll be doing in a year from now. Are you willing to match it? Are you willing to risk a month’s work that you know what you’re writing about?

You have two choices here. You can wager $10,000 on your prediction, which by the way is based on an incorrect premise; or you can show everyone how fearful you really are to back up the foolishness you post here.

I say you don’t have a clue what you’re writing about. Prove me wrong and take 10,000 of my dollars for your trouble.

If you accept my challenge, we will both send cashier’s checks for $10,000 to someone on this board who we both trust. Next June 1st, this person will cash the checks and issue another cashier’s check for $18,000 to the winner, and keep $2000 for his trouble.

If you don’t have the money to risk on your prediction, I’m sure one of your supporters here will lend it to you.

I have the money, and I’m about to double it.

RT

Deleted Account
06-01-2007, 10:31 PM
I have nothing to lose should licensing become a reality I will simply become licensed, end of story. You are the big loser here, because it is you who has pinned your future on licensing to "raise the bar" and limit your competition, a marketing plan doomed to failure.

RT: Why do you waste your time writing such foolishness here? You don’t know how I earn my living; you don’t know how I spend my time; and you obviously have no idea what my position is re: state licensing of home inspectors. Oddly, your vast ignorance hasn’t diminished in the least your willingness to publish your opinions, all of which are based on nothing.

My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell.

RT: I have $10,000 I’m willing to wager that you’re wrong about what I’ll be doing in a year from now. Are you willing to match it? Are you willing to risk a month’s work that you know what you’re writing about?

You have two choices here. You can wager $10,000 on your prediction, which by the way is based on an incorrect premise; or you can show everyone how fearful you really are to back up the foolishness you post here.

I say you don’t have a clue what you’re writing about. Prove me wrong and take 10,000 of my dollars for your trouble.

If you accept my challenge, we will both send cashier’s checks for $10,000 to someone on this board who we both trust. Next June 1st, this person will cash the checks and issue another cashier’s check for $18,000 to the winner, and keep $2000 for his trouble.

If you don’t have the money to risk on your prediction, I’m sure one of your supporters here will lend it to you.

I have the money, and I’m about to double it.

RT

What a fool, you refuse to discuss the pratfall known as home inspector licensing and instead It appears you are breaking the law in regards to gambling and furthermore attempting to seduce me as your accomplice. I believe the authorities need to be notified of your little scheme, they can decide if the law has been breached and act accordingly.

Rob, I never discuss my finances publicly, but truth be known I live well, you know couple acres, gated community 3-car garage, pool, no mortgage (http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=27.858069&lon=-82.293326&z=19.6&r=0&src=ggl). My guess is you ain't got two nickles to rub together let alone $10K, checked out your website nchomeinspectors.com (http://nchomeinspections.com/), I was nonpulsed. BTW the knock at the door is probably the FED's, smile. :D

Licensing is a pox upon our profession and I will continue to pick at the scab whenever possible.

Harvey Hempelstern
06-02-2007, 03:44 AM
Joe, are you as amused as I am by the bitterness and venom that is spewed from those who are losing the pro-licensing argument?

BTW, Bushart sends his regards and we both continue to hope for the best for you guys in Florida. It looks as if your governor might be looking to take the easy way out.

Rob Thomas
06-02-2007, 06:55 AM
Point 1: That's the wrong door, wrong guy, wrong website.

Point 2: I never gamble.

Point 3: You won't risk your money because you are afraid you're wrong. I'm not risking my money because I know I'm right.

Point 4: I haven't discussed licensing because I'm not interested in it. I entered this thread asking why Bushart was posting under the guise of Hempelstern.

Point 5: Everyone here knows who issued the challenge, and everone knows who was afraid of it.

Point 6: Everyone here now knows Hempelstern is Bushart, who is to afraid to post under his own name.

Point 7: My only interest here was to pull your strings and watch you and Bushart jump. Thanks for playing along.

RT

Jerry Peck
06-02-2007, 07:45 AM
Joe B.,

Let me get this straight:

1) You made a statement about Rob.

2) Rob is willing to put up $10,000 that you are wrong.

3) You refused to match it.

4) Rob called your bluff and you folded.

That is THE ONLY WAY to read what just went on.

From this point on, whatever you say has no meaning, no integrity , no practical standing at all the realm of things as honesty and forthrightness goes.

You need to stand down and, maybe your foolishness will disappear over time, in which case maybe others will start to give you some credibility again (or maybe not), but ...

... for now, you have none.

You just folded and left your integrity on the table, might as well get up now and walk out into the night.

Deleted Account
06-02-2007, 11:28 AM
Joe B.,

Let me get this straight:

1) You made a statement about Rob.

2) Rob is willing to put up $10,000 that you are wrong.

3) You refused to match it.

4) Rob called your bluff and you folded.

That is THE ONLY WAY to read what just went on.

From this point on, whatever you say has no meaning, no integrity , no practical standing at all the realm of things as honesty and forthrightness goes.

You need to stand down and, maybe your foolishness will disappear over time, in which case maybe others will start to give you some credibility again (or maybe not), but ...

... for now, you have none.

You just folded and left your integrity on the table, might as well get up now and walk out into the night.


Jerry,

It is you who have no credibility here, this ain't your argument you have no dog in this hunt and for your sake walk away before this escalates into something that may cost you even more.

Rob Thomas is a walking/talking joke, I owe him nothing and that is what he will get, nothing, were he on fire I would not spit on him.

I am no ones fool, I choose the time and place and games to which I play, no one chooses for me, no one especially a clown like you.

Hey Bob here is the challenge. Bring your ass and your $20K in cash down to Tampa to the Hard Rock Casino (we will give it to the Casino to hold while we play) and we will play heads-up Texas Hold EM in public, winner take all. It would be a pleasure to take your money and send you back to North Carolina on a greyhound bus. :D The challenge you offered me is bogus because I can't even prove that you are in business today. :) You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?” - Clint Eastwood


P.S. Rob, Before I reserve the table, send me a picture of either your money or a bank statement, you have already seen a picture of my house. :D



Fearlessly,

Joe Burkeson

Jerry Peck
06-02-2007, 12:00 PM
Jerry,

It is you who have no credibility here, this ain't your argument you have no dog in this hunt and for your sake walk away before this escalates into something that may cost you even more.

This is Brian's Casino, I'm volunteering as Pit Boss for this table. :D

Your bluff was called, you then started counting your money at the table to try to show the others why they should not challenge you.

You've got to know when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em, when to walk away, and when to run, never count you money 'til the dealin's done (something like that - Kenny Rogers)

You folded and started counting your money, in doing so, you left it all on the table, including your integrity.

No one wants to play with a ... how do we say this tactfully ... well, it rhymes with 'beat' ...

The unfortunate thing is that, as a volunteer Pit Boss, I have no authority to grab you by the collar and toss you out the door, Brian, though, is watching from those windows way up there, he does, it's his casino. :D

Harvey Hempelstern
06-02-2007, 12:14 PM
Looks like those losing the licensing argument and who also lost their bid to censor you are now baiting you into being banned from their very small club, Joe.

You would think with all of this unused webspace, there would be room for opinions other than theirs (wink).

Jerry Peck
06-02-2007, 12:23 PM
You would think with all of this unused webspace, there would be room for opinions other than theirs (wink).

There is, his AND yours. :D

Except that Joe is espousing more than opinions about inspections, licensing, etc., he is taking it personal to others. The casino owner says that's now how you play nice together. ;)

Joe made a boast, he was told to back it up of shut it up, Joe backed down but did not shut it up, he just raised his ranting level. :eek:

Joe lowered the level to a whole new level - like that found on the NAXHI board (from what I remember of it). They seem to like down and dirty fighting, ranting and raving. Boasting about things and then not backing it up.

Here, we except more from participants than that. We expect the participants to be adults, at least most of the time. :D

Deleted Account
06-02-2007, 01:08 PM
There is, his AND yours. :D

Except that Joe is espousing more than opinions about inspections, licensing, etc., he is taking it personal to others. The casino owner says that's now how you play nice together. ;)

Joe made a boast, he was told to back it up of shut it up, Joe backed down but did not shut it up, he just raised his ranting level. :eek:

Joe lowered the level to a whole new level - like that found on the NACHI board (from what I remember of it). They seem to like down and dirty fighting, ranting and raving. Boasting about things and then not backing it up.

Here, we except more from participants than that. We expect the participants to be adults, at least most of the time. :D

Funny, you lose the licensing argument, you are a pit boss who gets no respect from the players, and whats more you are powerless over me, what else can I say?

You even tried to conjure up Brian's spirit to save you from embarrassment all to no avail. I am now triumphantly (in your face) leaving this thread until Rob either meets my challenge or we get back to the topic of this thread... HI licensing, as you have proven yourself to be painfully unamusing and I am fresh out of insults.

Fearlessly,

Joe Burkeson

Jerry Peck
06-02-2007, 03:47 PM
I am now triumphantly (in your face) leaving this thread until Rob either meets my challenge

Joe,

(sigh)

You have no clue do you?

You are leaving with your tail between your legs as you have not yet said yes to Rob.

Not agreeing to Rob's deal makes any deal you are offering valueless.

(sigh)

Ol' Clueless Joe

Scott Patterson
06-02-2007, 04:05 PM
It is apparent that Burkeson & Bushart (Harvey Hump...) know that their diatribe against home inspector licensing is not working outside of the NACHI realm.

Those that are against licensing do not realize that if they do not become involved in the process and help to write or attempt to have input on licensing legislation, that others will do it for them. Builders, Realtors and Trial Lawyers love to write legislation to govern home inspectors.

Deleted Account
06-02-2007, 05:56 PM
Those that are against licensing do not realize that if they do not become involved in the process and help to write or attempt to have input on licensing legislation, that others will do it for them. Builders, Realtors and Trial Lawyers love to write legislation to govern home inspectors.

Thanks for bringing this back on topic, it is obvious that Peck now has far too much time on his hands or his meds need adjusting.

Anyway. Those of who are opposed to licensing are truly cognizant that joining coalitions or discussing how "good licensing" might be implemented is plain and simple compromise and in the end compromise = licensing.

Once you open Pandora's box to the notion that the "pig" can be dressed up and made acceptable you in the end will accept any friggin' slop that is offered. A perfect example of this is FABI's endorsement of the current licensing proposal, most members will be far worse off if this licensing bill becomes law but that fact did not stop them from endorsing the bill hook, line & sinker. All of FABI's members will be lumped together with the lowest common dominator, the bar will have been lowered and FABI's members will step off the curb and gain equality with everyone else in the gutter. It will most likely lead to the demise of their organization as we know it now. Bravo for licensing.

Harvey Hempelstern
06-02-2007, 07:01 PM
Those that are against licensing do not realize that if they do not become involved in the process and help to write or attempt to have input on licensing legislation, that others will do it for them. Builders, Realtors and Trial Lawyers love to write legislation to govern home inspectors.

That scare tactic used to work, Scott, back in the early period when people thought licensing might be a good idea and believed the rhetoric as to how it was inevitable.

Now, after having seen it fail in so many places ... while efforts to stop licensing is succeeding in almost every state where it is opposed ... that dog just won't hunt, anymore.

Nice try, though.

Rob Thomas
06-02-2007, 07:23 PM
Rob Thomas is a walking/talking joke, I owe him nothing and that is what he will get, nothing, were he on fire I would not spit on him.

What a spiteful thing to write ... just because I provided you with the opportunity to make a fool of yourself. You offer opinions that have no basis in fact, and you run from them when given the opportunity to back them up and take my money in the bargain.

I am no ones fool, I choose the time and place and games to which I play, no one chooses for me, no one especially a clown like you.

Hey Bob here is the challenge. Bring your ass and your $20K in cash down to Tampa to the Hard Rock Casino (we will give it to the Casino to hold while we play) and we will play heads-up Texas Hold EM in public, winner take all.

Here is Joe at his finest. He reads my earlier post wherein I state:

Point 2: I never gamble.

And then he challenges me to gamble on a card game. It doesn’t take much courage to challenge someone to an activity in which he has already stated he never participates.

It would be a pleasure to take your money and send you back to North Carolina on a greyhound bus. The challenge you offered me is bogus because I can't even prove that you are in business today.

That’s irrelevant. You didn’t opine that I was or wasn’t in business today. You predicted:

My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell.

I offered to risk 10,000 of my dollars that you are wrong (as usual), and that I will not have “gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan” in a year from now. It occurs to me that, if I am not even in business today, your odds of taking my money increase exponentially, because startups in this profession take a long time to build steam.

My challenge isn’t bogus. It’s very real, which is why you are afraid of it.

You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?” - Clint Eastwood

I never depend on luck.


P.S. Rob, Before I reserve the table, send me a picture of either your money or a bank statement, you have already seen a picture of my house.

Actually, you’re wrong again. I didn’t waste my time clicking the link you embedded in your previous post. I don’t care where or how you live; I only care if you have the guts to put $10,000 where your mouth is. If you need to mortgage your house to raise the $10,000, that’s your business.

You need to realize that I don’t read the private messages you send, I don’t look at the photos your post, I am not interested in the prestigious (volunteer) boards you have joined, I don’t care if you are poor or rich, and I don’t care if you are a success or a failure. I just want to give you the opportunity to pay dearly for the foolishness you post here.

Attached is a photo of the important part of the May 14, 2007 statement of my personal checking account, proving that when you wrote:

"My guess is you ain't got two nickles to rub together let alone $10K"

You were wrong ... again.


Fearlessly,

Apparently, ‘fearlessly’ has a different meaning than I had always understood.

RT

Jack Feldmann
06-02-2007, 08:04 PM
You & yours are simply pissed off that all your efforts to advance your restrictive home inspector licensing agenda has been an abject failure. But what really makes your head spin is knowing that the all efforts of a organized licensing coalition that has spent thousands of dollars and expended hundreds of man hours pushing legislation like a crack-whore can have their whole house of cards come tumbling down around their asses with very little effort from the opposition.

What irks you and causes you to lose sleep is the fact it is so much easier to prevent a bill from passing into law then to get one passed, I laugh at your feeble and weak forays into state politics thinking you have crossed all your t's and dotted all of your i's only to see it all be flushed down the toilet year after year. It is you who are the fraud & liar, sadly it is yourself who you have been lying to all these years, nobody else really cares.

Joe, I'm not sure where you got your information. Did you miss the part about my part in fighting licensing for over a decade? I have no idea what you are talking about when you say I am part of an organized licensing coalition. I believe it is in fact YOU that has been visiting those crack whores, since I have never been part of any such thing.

Now if you are talking about ASHI, then yes I am a member, but then you claim to be also, so you must be part of the same coalition.

From your posts, it is clear to me that you not only have no idea about who I am, how I run my business, how I feel about things, or ANYTHING about licensing in TN or it's history. In fact, from your posts, it is pretty clear that you don't have much in the way of rational thought on any subject. If anyone ever fit the definition of delusional, it is you.

You and harv are a pair - and deserve each other. You guys can pick each other's scabs. Have fun.

Rob Thomas
07-07-2007, 12:17 AM
Well, June has come and gone. Burkeson is one month closer to losing $10,000 (I realize he was afraid to accept my challenge, but a loser is a loser), and in a cool market I inspected more homes in a month than Bushart/Hempelstern has inspected in his whole life.

Now that there are more sellers than buyers, the buyer can dictate the terms of the contract of purchase, including extending the window of time to have an inspection. Buyers can now wait two weeks or more to get the experienced inspector they want, rather than having to take whoever is available on short notice (always the new, inexperienced "inspectors").

Licensing is irrelevant. Experience solves everything.

RT




I have nothing to lose should licensing become a reality I will simply become licensed, end of story. You are the big loser here, because it is you who has pinned your future on licensing to "raise the bar" and limit your competition, a marketing plan doomed to failure.

My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell. :D

Deleted Account
07-07-2007, 09:15 AM
You will just have to come to Florida to collect, better eat your friggin Wheaties girly-man.

Rob Thomas
07-07-2007, 10:42 PM
You're wrong again. I don't HAVE to do anything. I have been able to sit right here and illustrate to everyone you have tried to impress on this site that the messages you post aren't worth the time it took to read them.

Since you can't hold your own in a debate, you (and Bushart) try to demean your opponents in an effort to save face. When your bluff is called, all you can do is hurl insults and make veiled threats.

After this little exercise, I can't imagine there is anyone here who has any question about the content of your character.

RT




You will just have to come to Florida to collect, better eat your friggin Wheaties girly-man.

Deleted Account
07-08-2007, 10:37 AM
You're wrong again. I don't HAVE to do anything. I have been able to sit right here and illustrate to everyone you have tried to impress on this site that the messages you post aren't worth the time it took to read them.

Since you can't hold your own in a debate, you (and Bushart) try to demean your opponents in an effort to save face. When your bluff is called, all you can do is hurl insults and make veiled threats.

After this little exercise, I can't imagine there is anyone here who has any question about the content of your character.

RT

The obvious problem with you is jealousy, the fact that people look up up to me for direction has your panties in a knot. As far as debating you, why would I choose to provide a platform for the drivel you preach? Needless to say I don't debate fools like you I pity them.

Is it true that this is one of the questions out of the North Carolina Home Inspectors Exam?

Q: A front porch is constructed of 2x8 pine on 24-inch centers with a field rock foundation. The span is 8 feet and the porch length is 16 feet. The porch floor is 1 inch rough sawn pine. When the porch collapses, how many hound dogs will be killed?

Rob Thomas
07-08-2007, 06:39 PM
The obvious problem with you is jealousy, the fact that people look up up to me for direction has your panties in a knot.

You’re right. I’m jealous of all clueless, short, balding, middle-aged men with waist sizes that equal their IQs. Of course, as we all know, the only people who look up to you are known collectively as “the departed”.

As far as debating you, why would I choose to provide a platform for the drivel you preach?

I don’t know why you do any of the ridiculous things you do, but I do know that I can make you jump any time I want by posting a short message here. You’re as predictable as the next day of the week.

Needless to say I don't debate fools like you I pity them.

And yet you feel compelled to respond every time I post a message. It’s true you don’t try to defend your indefensible positions, but you do try mightily to insult your opponents instead in an effort to keep them from hanging around and exposing your inadequacies in an exchange of ideas.

Is it true that this is one of the questions out of the North Carolina Home Inspectors Exam?

Q: A front porch is constructed of 2x8 pine on 24-inch centers with a field rock foundation. The span is 8 feet and the porch length is 16 feet. The porch floor is 1 inch rough sawn pine. When the porch collapses, how many hound dogs will be killed?

True to form, you offer the comment above. I don’t know if you are trying to insult me; to insult the entire state of North Carolina; or to provide proof that I have accurately described your lack of character. Given any choice at all, we are left to wonder why anyone would allow you into his home.

I’ll be back next month with an update of my business volume, since there is so much money riding on your prediction. Taking two weeks off will undoubtedly have an effect, but I expect to still complete more inspections than you.


RT

Deleted Account
07-08-2007, 08:08 PM
The obvious problem with you is jealousy, the fact that people look up up to me for direction has your panties in a knot.

You’re right. I’m jealous of all clueless, short, balding, middle-aged men with waist sizes that equal their IQs. Of course, as we all know, the only people who look up to you are known collectively as “the departed”.

As far as debating you, why would I choose to provide a platform for the drivel you preach?

I don’t know why you do any of the ridiculous things you do, but I do know that I can make you jump any time I want by posting a short message here. You’re as predictable as the next day of the week.

Needless to say I don't debate fools like you I pity them.

And yet you feel compelled to respond every time I post a message. It’s true you don’t try to defend your indefensible positions, but you do try mightily to insult your opponents instead in an effort to keep them from hanging around and exposing your inadequacies in an exchange of ideas.

Is it true that this is one of the questions out of the North Carolina Home Inspectors Exam?

Q: A front porch is constructed of 2x8 pine on 24-inch centers with a field rock foundation. The span is 8 feet and the porch length is 16 feet. The porch floor is 1 inch rough sawn pine. When the porch collapses, how many hound dogs will be killed?

True to form, you offer the comment above. I don’t know if you are trying to insult me; to insult the entire state of North Carolina; or to provide proof that I have accurately described your lack of character. Given any choice at all, we are left to wonder why anyone would allow you into his home.

I’ll be back next month with an update of my business volume, since there is so much money riding on your prediction. Taking two weeks off will undoubtedly have an effect, but I expect to still complete more inspections than you.


RT




Like I said before, spend a few bucks of that money you cheated your customers out of girly-man and spring for a bus ticket to Florida then we can chat about whatever has your panties in a knot.

Hey, did you know that the tooth brush was invented in North Carolina, yeah, yeah, had it been invented anywhere else it would have obviously been called the teeth brush. :D

Jimmy Breazeale
07-19-2007, 06:09 PM
Well, folks, I got in rather late on this discussion, having only just joined Inspection News yesterday. I have finally, belatedly, and only recently given up trying to use reason to sway the opinions of some of the virulently anti-licensing crowd over on my beloved NACHI home. You may as well beat your head against the wall arguing with Mr. Humplestump, or whatever (whom I actually like, btw), and J.B. For the life of me, I can not understand why anyone would prefer to have to compete against the woefully incompetent jokers who don't know the difference between drip edge and dripping sinks. Well, maybe I can understand some of them, but that would be a different argument altogether. Since I can't seem to resist the urge, I'll take what seems to be the main and oft-repeated propaganda statement against licensing and make one statement, from a political science perspective, and then, I swear, I'm going to shut up.

"Licensing solves nothing."

No law ever enacted by any government in the history of mankind has ever enjoyed universal compliance. To even intimate, never mind reiterate, that a licensing law will actually solve completely any or all of the problems associated with our industry would be pure folly. To attempt to use the fact that universal compliance to that law would not be achieved as ammunition to oppose licensing is just so much horsey dookey. Licensed lawyers get disbarred. Licensed realtors have their licenses revoked. Licensed drivers have their licenses revoked, all for reasons, and in most cases good ones. The deterrant for bad lawyers, bad realtors, drivers, and, yes, even home inspectors, is that there exists a license to revoke. In the absence of a license, we only have the word of the individual that he/she can practice law effectively, inspect a home properly, or even drive a truck.

Some oppose licensing because it most likely would cause them to have to purchase E&O. They see this as putting a target on them for a lawsuit. This is an expression of a fear of possible consequences.

Some oppose licensing simply because they believe fervently government involvement in our business environment is a bad thing. A Jeffersonian view, but then, Jefferson's vision of America was a nation of genteel farmers living in small, contiguous communities. This is an expression of a fear of government intrusion, the Big Brother concept.

And then, there are those who oppose licensing because they know they lack the knowledge to ever pass an exam which only sets a minimum standard, and having to do so would put them out of business forthwith. This crowd is, for obvious reasons, mostly pretty silent, but they are the main reason we need sane licensing laws, with well-funded enforcement teeth. I do have some thoughts on what would constitute a fair and effective licensing law, and in all fairness to the anti crowd, most states don't measure up completely. The irony of all this is, if one filters through all the bantie rooster posturing on the subject, there are actually good ideas on both sides of the issue that could be included in the language of licensing laws.

Everyone should read James Madison's notes on the Constitutional Convention to gain an insight over how a consensus was finally reached. Our problem as an industry is that we can't seem to stop disparaging each other long enough to come to the conclusion that we need to have a round table discussion. The absence of that discussion creates a power vacuum into which other entities have stepped to have their versions of licensing laws enacted which serve their interests, not ours.

Put that in your slop jar and sniff it.

Rob Thomas
07-29-2007, 08:55 PM
Here it is the end of July, and I was booked solid, except for the time I was vacationing. It looks once again like Burkeson's prediction is as unfounded as everything else he writes here. I'm one month closer to that $10,000, and Burkeson is one month closer to earning the coveted title "The Biggest Loser".

True story: While I was in central FL, I asked a FABI member who was inspecting a house near the one I was renting if he knew a friend of mine in the area to whom other inspectors look for advice. He asked: "Joe who?"

You can't make this stuff up.

RT




I have nothing to lose should licensing become a reality I will simply become licensed, end of story. You are the big loser here, because it is you who has pinned your future on licensing to "raise the bar" and limit your competition, a marketing plan doomed to failure.

My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell. :D

Deleted Account
07-29-2007, 09:29 PM
Hey, lookie who slithered back and they said you wouldn't make bail, well raise my rent, you know the slogan, come down to Florida on vacation, return on probation. Damn, you came all the way to central Florida and never stopped in, hell now I have to feed the dog.

How is that bullshit career going, tell us how many old folks did you cheat out of their social security check this week? BTW, ASHI says they never heard of you, what gives? But they do know Harvey for sure. :D

Rob Thomas
07-29-2007, 09:50 PM
I pull the string, and the puppet jumps, just like I said he would.

I'll be back in a month or so with an update on my business volume. I don't have time to visit everday like Joe Who does, because I actually have homes to inspect.


RT



Hey, lookie who slithered back and they said you wouldn't make bail, well raise my rent, you know the slogan, come down to Florida on vacation, return on probation. Damn, you came all the way to central Florida and never stopped in, hell now I have to feed the dog.

How is that bullshit career going, tell us how many old folks did you cheat out of their social security check this week? BTW, ASHI says they never heard of you, what gives? But they do know Harvey for sure. :D

Deleted Account
07-29-2007, 10:31 PM
I pull the string, and the puppet jumps, just like I said he would.

I'll be back in a month or so with an update on my business volume. I don't have time to visit everday like Joe Who does, because I actually have homes to inspect.


RT

Each & every time you open up your mouth I'll oblige and put my foot in it, what did you expect... Candy?

BTW, when is a sophomoric hack writer like you gonna begin using a spell-checker? You're an embarrassment.

Rob Thomas
07-29-2007, 11:07 PM
05-29-2007, 10:21 PM Joseph Burkeson (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/joseph-burkeson.html) This message has been deleted by Joseph Burkeson (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/joseph-burkeson.html). Reason: Posted when my feelings were hurt, should have realizes who I was addressing.


Embarrassed? I make fewer typos than you and inspect more homes than you. You should have realizes that.


RT




Each & every time you open up your mouth I'll oblige and put my foot in it, what did you expect... Candy?

BTW, when is a sophomoric hack writer like you gonna begin using a spell-checker? You're an embarrassment.

Deleted Account
07-29-2007, 11:18 PM
05-29-2007, 10:21 PM Joseph Burkeson (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/joseph-burkeson.html) This message has been deleted by Joseph Burkeson (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/joseph-burkeson.html). Reason: Posted when my feelings were hurt, should have realizes who I was addressing.


Embarrassed? I make fewer typos than you and inspect more homes than you. You should have realizes that.


RT


Yeah, maybe, but who really cares about a stupid metric like that? Bottom line... Any way you count it, I live better. :)

Rob Thomas
07-29-2007, 11:42 PM
You're on the internet at 2:30 in the morning trying to convince me how well you live? What kind of life is that?

I suppose that when you have no appointments, time is of no consequence. That's good, though. No customers to get in the way of your good life.

RT




Yeah, maybe, but who really cares about a stupid metric like that? Bottom line... Any way you count it, I live better. :)

Deleted Account
07-30-2007, 05:26 AM
You're on the internet at 2:30 in the morning trying to convince me how well you live? What kind of life is that?

I sleep very little maybe four hours a night no doubt it is part of my overall success, what is your sorry excuse, surfing porn while your wife snoozes?

Rob Thomas
09-03-2007, 11:20 PM
On 06-01-2007 at 08:28 PM Burkeson wrote: My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell.

On 06-02-2007 at 12:59 AM I responded to Burkeson’s supposition that I will be earning a living with one or more menial jobs by issuing this challenge: RT: I have $10,000 I’m willing to wager that you’re wrong about what I’ll be doing in a year from now. Are you willing to match it? Are you willing to risk a month’s work that you know what you’re writing about?

You have two choices here. You can wager $10,000 on your prediction, which by the way is based on an incorrect premise; or you can show everyone how fearful you really are to back up the foolishness you post here.

Today is September 4, 2007. As everyone is aware, Burkeson didn’t have the confidence in his prediction to put his money where his mouth is. That’s because he knows what he hopes no one else here knows: that everything he writes is baseless rhetoric. When he can’t prevail in a free exchange of ideas (which is never), he resorts to personal attacks.

I say: Let’s give Burkeson another chance. While he was spending endless hours on the internet this past month posting messages here and monitoring any other inspection-related site that would allow him access, I spent my free time purchasing another investment property, and photographing a wedding. After I replace the kitchen cabinets in the flip, I would love to have granite countertops installed.

That’s where Burkeson can help. I propose that we double the wager to $20,000. How about it, Burkeson? Are you really fearless? That extra $10k will go a long way toward my new granite.

I won’t hold my breath, because I don’t think Burkeson is as fearless as he pretends to be.

RT

“Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that Burkeson has a clue." ~ Harvey Hempelstern

Billy Stephens
09-04-2007, 06:03 AM
Gentlemen,

I'm not sure who reactivated this thread as it appears the last post was 6-02-07.

Is this conversation worth pursuing?


Billy

Jerry Peck
09-04-2007, 11:38 AM
Billy,

Rob is trying to make a point to show us that what Joe B. says has no meaning, however, others have made that point, and Joe B. has proven it to be so, so many times before that, at this point, Rob is looking like the 'Bully' by keeping on kicking sand in Joe B.'s face while Joe is down, not that burying Joe B.'s head in the sand does not have its benefits, but, repeated walk-by kickings do not help the kicker ...

... nor does it make us feel sorry for Joe B. ...

... it's just petty 'picking on' Joe B. at this point, whether he had it coming or not. :)

Rob needs to show us what he's made of ... can he ignore Joe B.'s rantings and ravings like most of the rest of us?

Richard Rushing
09-04-2007, 12:29 PM
Prediction:

The next post will have one of the following phrases in it--

Peck-er head
Nazi jack-booted thugs
girly-man
Licensing is bad
business is great (or couldn't be better)

Deleted Account
09-04-2007, 08:34 PM
Prediction:

The next post will have one of the following phrases in it--

Peck-er head
Nazi jack-booted thugs
girly-man
Licensing is bad
business is great (or couldn't be better)


Nice prognostication, but can you pull a rabbit out of a hat?


PS You forgot... There is no bad press. :)

John Michael
09-04-2007, 11:01 PM
I take it all back and offer my sincere apologies to Mr. Gromicko. While I was complaining about him he was helping me behind the scenes.

Deleted Account
09-05-2007, 05:50 AM
The government isn't your problem. You have a bigger monster eating your and my lunch. And don't bother calling him. He'll tell you to perform a bizarre physically impossible sex act.


Just because your paranoid, doesn't mean that there not out to get you. :D

But you might be right about the Remax preinspection thingy, Move In Certified (http://www.moveincertified.com/) is one of Nick's best (NACHI) ideas to date... Resistance is most likely futile. :)

Billy Stephens
09-05-2007, 07:35 AM
WOW!!!!

A 3,700 sq. FT. $3.75 MILLION built in 1936 with 5 minor defects reported in the LA Times
section of link. Boy Howdy them boys in CALe FORN ya Really know there stuff. Can I sign up for a correspondence course???

Billy

Rob Thomas
10-27-2007, 04:12 PM
On 06-01-2007 at 08:28 PM Burkeson wrote: My guess is that you we won't be able to carry on this conversation a year from now as you will have gone back to flippin' burgers or some other menial task due to depending on home inspector licensing as one of the primary support pillars of your business plan. Tough to milk a cow or the public for that matter when sitting on a two-legged stool, time will tell.

On 06-02-2007 at 12:59 AM I responded to Burkeson’s supposition that I will be earning a living with one or more menial jobs by issuing this challenge: RT: I have $10,000 I’m willing to wager that you’re wrong about what I’ll be doing in a year from now. Are you willing to match it? Are you willing to risk a month’s work that you know what you’re writing about?

You have two choices here. You can wager $10,000 on your prediction, which by the way is based on an incorrect premise; or you can show everyone how fearful you really are to back up the foolishness you post here.

Today is October 27, 2007. As you all know, Burkeson was too frightened to put his money where his mouth is. It’s a good thing, too. I had the busiest September and October in years, and I acquired another little investment property that will provide me with a better return in a couple of months than Burkeson’s burger-flipping NACHI buddies will earn in a year.

The only reason this is important is that it illustrates the ridiculous statements Burkeson makes here at IN are baseless.

RT

Jerry Peck
10-27-2007, 05:16 PM
The only reason this is important is that it illustrates the ridiculous statements Burkeson makes here at IN are baseless.

Actually, Rob, that is not anymore important to anything than Joe B. is (not the importance he thinks he is, but how important he really is) to anything of relevance.

Well, other than it is also pathetically important to you that we know this too - I seriously doubt any of us really care about it, it is between you and Joe, and the rest of us here know enough about Joe by now to have already formed our opinions of him (which he continually manages to re-affirm and downgrade himself, but that is up to Joe to do or not do).

Richard Rushing
10-28-2007, 10:13 AM
Actually, Rob, that is not anymore important to anything than Joe B. is (not the importance he thinks he is, but how important he really is) to anything of relevance.

Well, other than it is also pathetically important to you that we know this too - I seriously doubt any of us really care about it, it is between you and Joe, and the rest of us here know enough about Joe by now to have already formed our opinions of him (which he continually manages to re-affirm and downgrade himself, but that is up to Joe to do or not do).


The sad thing is... he doesen't even realize how bad he continues to portray himself as.

Jim Luttrall
10-28-2007, 10:47 AM
Brian H., thanks for the ignore feature. I am able to add certain individuals to my ingore list that only stir up s**t without contributing anything of value to the forum.
I wish I could just ignore entire threads though since it tends to be like a car wreck, I just can't help looking when it pops up on the new post even though I know I shouldn't. But at least I can block the individual poster's comments.

Deleted Account
10-28-2007, 05:23 PM
I truly enjoy my popularity on this HI board of small repute, it provides me the opportunity to hone my writing skills and get my political jollies off (I'm only laughing on the inside), a great man once said... "there is no bad press". Oh, yeah I remember now... it was Nick Gromicko. :)

The only thing you pro-licensing kool-aid drinkers can possibly do is band together and get Brian to do something bold, cause neither I nor my message (look for a new anti-licensing thread coming soon) is going away. Ball is in your court, deal with it! :D

Billy Stephens
10-28-2007, 05:57 PM
Joe,

That's it?? :confused:

Of all the discrediting comments made over the last couple of days on a couple of threads.

I like to shoot my mouth off and irritate people. Get use to it.

No proof to the contrary of not even one statement against you?

And Oh theres a new thread coming.(as soon as Some One gives you your talking points?)

Credibility? :rolleyes:

Deleted Account
10-28-2007, 06:32 PM
Joe,

That's it?? :confused:

Of all the discrediting comments made over the last couple of days on a couple of threads.

I like to shoot my mouth off and irritate people. Get use to it.

No proof to the contrary of not even one statement against you?

And Oh theres a new thread coming.(as soon as Some One gives you your talking points?)

Credibility? :rolleyes:




Sorry, you can either go screw yourself, or get a ticket and stand in the big line of the of people who can kiss my ass... but I (like Jesus before me) will not defend myself against any accusations brought forth here, nothing I can say would appease my detractors anyway. ;)

A person must be clear in their mission, your opinion of me whether good or bad is inconsequential and has no bearing on the message I deliver. Actually, it is better for me to be publicly opposed as it helps developing pinpoint clarity while removing any touchy-feely personal considerations. :)

I contend that it is the members of this board that have created the personal animosities that exist, you don't like my message so ... you don't like me. You don't like the fact that someone with my credentials could possibly be against licensing, and the fools that you are also believe that I am alone in my thinking. :D

It doesn't matter, you see the message has nothing to do with me or you, the message alone is the only thing that matters.

Billy Stephens
10-28-2007, 06:38 PM
Aw Joe,

Did I say I didn't like you?

Rob Thomas
10-28-2007, 07:38 PM
>I truly enjoy my popularity on this HI board of small repute,

It’s odd that you describe this as a board of small repute, given that it is the only place you have to express yourself besides the NACHI board, where they threw you off the only pseudo-committee they had allowed you to belong. Getting booted from a NACHI committee is a rare feat indeed.

>it provides me the opportunity to hone my writing skills

It’s a shame you have never availed yourself of that opportunity. You could use the practice.

>and get my political jollies off (I'm only laughing on the inside), a great man once said... "there is no bad press". Oh, yeah I remember now... it was Nick Gromicko.

It is no surprise that you describe Gromicko as a “great man”. No doubt you are also an admirer of the great success of Charles Ponzi.

>The only thing you pro-licensing kool-aid drinkers can possibly do is band together and get Brian to do something bold, cause neither I nor my message (look for a new anti-licensing thread coming soon) is going away. Ball is in your court, deal with it!

Why would Brian need to do anything “bold”? Why would Brian need to do anything at all? You don’t cause any trouble for anyone. You have no message, and you have no influence. The fact that you propose to post another message on a board you feel is of “small repute” is proof that you are desperate to have someone, anyone, acknowledge that you exist. You are nothing more than a minor irritation; a small hemorrhoid that flares up from time to time begging for attention.

It is telling that you repeat endlessly in your messages on this board and others that you are ‘here to stay’ and that others should ‘deal with it’. You have found in your life one tiny ray of notoriety – the ability to go on public message boards and be obnoxious. You tell others to ‘deal with it’ because they have no more control of the resource than you. The truth is you are able to join the conversation only because you insinuate yourself. You have never been asked for your counsel, and you will never be.

Has anyone other than I found it interesting that for 15 years Florida rejected the idea of licensing home inspectors, but adopted it very shortly after Burkeson relocated there? Not only did he lack the influence to stop licensing in his own back yard, he was probably the one inspector who illustrated the need for it.

Ironic, ain’t it?

RT

Deleted Account
10-28-2007, 08:50 PM
Rob,

I find your commentary quite comical, you, a food-service refugee lacking any prior experience, education or meaningful credentials applicable to the home inspection profession questioning me. Tell the truth now, your house has wheels, right? I stand on my statement you won't be in this business a year from today furthermore, no one will miss you when you are gone.

It is understandable that people here do not like my anti-licensing message, I refuse to use my station in life, leadership positions, community standing and financial worth to help the government limit my competition through bad licensing legislation. I believe in free markets & free speech and will continue to share my message and you are impotent to stop me. What I find really hysterical is that most people here like you even less, you have no supporters on this board and no one speaks well of you.

Furthermore, I sense your jealousy in regards to ICC Certification & training, I also know that you possess none of these certifications yourself due to laking the intelligence and work ethic required to attain any meaningful certification. BTW, who did you get to take your NC License exam it is fairly obvious to all that you don't have what it takes to be a home inspector?

I also like that you have no respect for NACHI and am thankful that you are not a NACHI member (I realize not everyone can pass the exam) it would be a shame to one day find you sporting a NACHI logo on your website, Oh, I forgot you have no website, business, or meaningful life to speak of, too bad. :D

The other thing that brings a chuckle to your detractors and those who read your posts is the public display of your girly-man weakness to do anything to change any of the insignificant things you consistently piss & moan about. Everyone realizes that you are way over your head in these arguments and are powerless to implement any program to save your self esteem or extricate yourself from this mess without becoming the point of ridicule. Don't expect any help from me either. :)

Oh, BTW, when I mentioned your name at ASHI, the consensus was... lightweight punk still wet behind the ears, probably won't be in business a year from now, what can I say?

Lewis Capaul
10-28-2007, 09:07 PM
I truly enjoy my popularity on this HI board of small repute, it provides me the opportunity to hone my writing skills and get my political jollies off (I'm only laughing on the inside), a great man once said... "there is no bad press". Oh, yeah I remember now... it was Nick Gromicko. :)

The only thing you pro-licensing kool-aid drinkers can possibly do is band together and get Brian to do something bold, cause neither I nor my message (look for a new anti-licensing thread coming soon) is going away. Ball is in your court, deal with it! :D

Joe, You can have all the anti-licensing threads you like,but what are you down to now 15 States, with 2 or 3 more considering regulqation? You celebrated the defeat of the Florida legislation here and on your association's MB, but you went down in flames anyway, that should have been a hint.

Several months ago you and Bushart also celebrated the defeat of licensing in Washington, refusing to listen to the people who live and do business here. You, along with your buddy James thought you knew more about Washington politics than those of us who live here, just like you both knew more about Washington laws, even more than the Washington Attorney General, mean while your own State passes HI legislation, it seems you were paying attention to the wrong place, so go ahead and post all the anti-licensing threads you like, they seem to be working well for the pro-licensing folks.

You probably don't do as much harm to your cause as your buddy Bushart does, his rants and demonstrated idiocy are the best demonstration pro-licensing people can show for the need for licensing, people up here are amused by his, and many of your ramblings about anarchy and Libertarianism, or at least your interpretations of both.

Remember several months ago when I discussed political "timing" with you, about when the best time to push for passage of HI legislation, here's an article from a Olympia, WA paper that shows that someone else appreciates the proper time to start putting real pressure on the politicians, the public has a short attention span, why would those who want licensing passed have wasted their time on the public before the issue got out of the
sunrise Committee?

State report makes case for licensing home inspectors - South Sound - The Olympian - Olympia, Washington (http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/254024.html)

Keep on posting Joe, but keep in mind that posting your anti-licensing crap on HI Message Boards accomplishes nothing, the audience is wrong, the public and the politicians are the ones that you should be targeting, but your rants, name calling, and threats won't get you very far there. It only takes a few examples of HI incompetency to convince both the public and most politicians of the need for licensing, they're worried more about getting screwed by an incompetent Inspector that may cost them thousands of dollars or about losing votes from people who believe they need the "protection" that they believe licensing will provide.

You're just preaching to the choir Joe, and most of the choir doesn't agree with you, not even the InterNachi choir.

Rob Thomas
10-28-2007, 10:39 PM
Rob,

I find your commentary quite comical, you, a food-service refugee lacking any prior experience, education or meaningful credentials applicable to the home inspection profession questioning me. Tell the truth now, your house has wheels, right? I stand on my statement you won't be in this business a year from today furthermore, no one will miss you when you are gone.

If you really believed that, you would try to raise the $10,000 that it would take to back up your hollow predictions. You lack the conviction, and the courage, to do so.

Let me tell you the truth. None of my houses have wheels.

It is understandable that people here do not like my anti-licensing message, I refuse to use my station in life,

You’re the only person I have ever encountered on any site who claimed to have a “station in life”. What is yours, exactly?

leadership positions,

You boast about them; name them.

community standing

Are you talking about that volunteer board you joined to try to get a few inspection leads? Does anyone in your community even know you?

and financial worth

It should be easy for you to risk $10,000, then. Funny that you won’t, isn’t it?

to help the government limit my competition through bad licensing legislation. I believe in free markets & free speech and will continue to share my message and you are impotent to stop me.

Of course I can’t stop you. What a silly comment. Anyone in our free land can express his ideas to all corners of the world with a cheap internet connection. You have the unlimited ability to speak; what you lack is the influence to be heard.

What I find really hysterical is that most people here like you even less, you have no supporters on this board and no one speaks well of you.

As with most everything you write, that’s just not true. On top of that, it wouldn’t matter, even if it was. You are the one who craves attention and acceptance, not I. You are here every day. I seldom visit.

Furthermore, I sense your jealousy

You “sense my jealousy”? That’s a neat trick. You don’t seem to have any sense.

in regards to ICC Certification & training, I also know that you possess none of these certifications

I hate to break the news to you, but it was you who needed ICC certification to feign competence as a home inspector, not I. I was able to squeak by with years of practical experience, and years of inspection experience.

yourself due to laking the intelligence and work ethic required to attain any meaningful certification.

I may lack intelligence, but I can spell “lacking”.


BTW, who did you get to take your NC License exam it is fairly obvious to all that you don't have what it takes to be a home inspector?

Be honest. What is fairly obvious is that I have made enough posts in the technical section to illustrate that I have a passing knowledge of home inspection. This is in direct contrast to yourself, who has neither the ability nor the charity to help other inspectors on this resource you selfishly use for your own gain.

Let me tell you the truth. I passed every exam I ever attempted.

I also like that you have no respect for NACHI and am thankful that you are not a NACHI member (I realize not everyone can pass the exam)

You also realize, of course, that Arnold Ziffel passed the NACHI exam with a 98 in 8 minutes. I vowed never to join an organization that would admit a pig.

it would be a shame to one day find you sporting a NACHI logo on your website, Oh, I forgot you have no website, business, or meaningful life to speak of, too bad.

If this were true, would you spend so much time trying (unsuccessfully) to discredit me? I think not. Try making a comment that has a least a ring of truth.

The other thing that brings a chuckle to your detractors and those who read your posts is the public display of your girly-man weakness to do anything to change any of the insignificant things you consistently piss & moan about.

If you care to re-read my few posts here, you will find that I moan only about Bushart posting here under an assumed name; and NACHI pretending that its “members” are “elite”, or even competent.

Everyone realizes that you are way over your head in these arguments and are powerless to implement any program to save your self esteem or extricate yourself from this mess without becoming the point of ridicule. Don't expect any help from me either.

Be honest. You know that everyone here knows that you were, and still are, afraid to put your money where your mouth is. You also know that everyone knows that I am willing and able to call your bluff to the tune of $10,000.

You are also wrong about me doing anything to effect change. I have found working as an expert witness to be very effective.

Oh, BTW, when I mentioned your name at ASHI, the consensus was... lightweight punk still wet behind the ears, probably won't be in business a year from now, what can I say?

Be honest. That was a complete lie. You didn’t mention my name “at ASHI”, as if “ASHI” was a place or even an assembly of people. There was no consensus, because it never happened. I hope your lack of honesty doesn’t bleed over into your work.
Let me tell you the truth. There are quite a few ASHI members who know me, but none of them would waste his time having a conversation with you. Really.

RT

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 04:58 AM
If I'm so powerless why would an dipstick like you have to bother to prove anything about himself to me. I would never waste my time trying to prove anything to you as I have no respect for you to begin with and your opinion is worthless. I can only laugh, out loud and if you were here in your face, what a maroon!


Don't forget, when I mentioned your name during my last trip to Florida, the inspector with whom I was chatting answered "Joe who?" when I asked if he knew you. And that was just over in Clermont.


Clermont is a white-trash magnet, a place where people end up a when they can't afford to either live in Orlando or Tampa, Its a dreary little whistle-stop on Route 52 and I am thankful that no one from that hell hole knows me, I must be doing something right. BTW, I am sure you found Clermont charming as many houses there have wheels. To sum up, Clermont is never anyone's destination it is a 2nd or 3rd place people settle for when they can't afford what they really want, you know... like where you live. ;)

Florida is a peninsula surrounded by water and Clermont is a place where you can talk to crowds who have lived in Florida for decades and have never been to the beach. I find it hysterically funny that you would come all the way to Florida only to end up in a place like Clermont where people are either born or sentenced there due to bad choices, very fitting. :)

Hey does it bother you that I don't answer your lame-ass questions or attempt to counter your liquor-induced accusations... well I hope so. Too bad you couldn't get just one loser like yourself to stick up for you, I mean here is a thread with close to 2,000 hits and you have zero, zilch, nada supporters, no is going to step-up for you, Oh the humanity. :D

Jerry Peck
10-29-2007, 06:19 AM
but I (like Jesus before me) will not defend myself

I know you think you put that statement in there to imply some sort of greatness, but, you have to remember that Jesus saves ...

... at the same place his brother's Juan, Julio, Jorge, and his sister Juanita save - they keep their money under their bed.

Like you, they don't trust anyone.

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 06:55 AM
I know you think you put that statement in there to imply some sort of greatness, but...



Jerry! - Jerry! - Jerry! (Oops, wrong show) you know me, It was strictly a tongue-in-cheek remark, but since you are here can you find in your heart to give my North Carolina Nemesis an amen? He is feeling a might poorly seeing as how he initially set out to drain the swamp but he soon found his self up to his ass in alligators. :D

Rob is convinced the world would be a much better place without the likes Joe Burkeson, Nick Gromicko & NACHI, the only problem is like all of his other life plans... he is powerless, impotent and lacks the necessary funding to see his vision through. I on the other hand view Rob as one of life's useful idiots, someone who was placed here as an example to others of what not to do. ;)


Ways things would be different if Microsoft was headquartered in North Carolina

1. Their #1 product would be Microsoft Winders;

2. Instead of an hourglass icon you'd get an empty beer bottle;

3. Occasionally you'd bring up a window that was covered with a Hefty bag;

4. Dialog boxes would give you the choice of "Ahh-ight" or "Naw";

5. Instead of "Ta-Da!", the opening sound would be Dueling Banjos;

6. The "Recycle Bin" in Winders '95 would be an outhouse;

7. Whenever you pulled up the Sound Player you'd hear a digitized drunk redneck yelling "Freebird!";

8. Instead of "Start Me Up", the Winders '95 theme song would be Achy-Breaky Heart;

9. PowerPoint would be named "ParPawnt";

10. Microsoft's programming tools would be "Vishul Basic" and "Vishul C++";

11. Winders 95 logo would incorporate Confederate Flag;

12. Microsoft Word would be just that: one word;

13. New Shutdown WAV: "Y'all come back now!";

14. Instead of VP, Microsoft big shots would be called "Cuz";

15. Hardware could be repaired using parts from an old Trans Am;

16. Microsoft Office replaced with Micr'sawft Henhouse;

17. Four words: Daisy Dukes Screen Saver;

18. Well, the first thing you know, old Bill's a billionaire;

19. Speadsheet software would include examples to inventory dead cars in your front yard;

20. Flight Simulator replaced by Tractor pull Simulator;

21. Microsoft CEO: Bubba Gates;

22. Redman plug'n'play interface;

23. They could still use Ky-row as code name for next upgrade, but Albenny would be the one after that;

24. Screen saver would be a kudzu vine which would consume your program manager;

25. Instructions for use would include "mash the control key.";

26. The HQ building will be a double wide on cinder blocks, because MICROSOFT is hyear to stay.

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 07:51 AM
Burkeson’s latest post proves a number of things:

He doesn’t have any inspections, so he can play on the internet all day;

He’s not only a liar, but a thief. He lifted his little list from the internet, and edited it and re-posted it without attribution. Here are excerpts from an article on one site with the title:



Things Would Be Different If Microsoft Were Located In Georgia!



· Their No. 1 product would be "Micr'sawft Winders." It comes with a background pitcher of General Lee superimposed on a Confederate flag.

· Instead of an hourglass icon you'd git an empty beer bottle.

· Occasionally, you'd bring up a window that was covered with a Hefty bag and some duct tape.

· Instead of asking "Where do you want to go today?" it's more like "Hey mister, can I ketch a ride in the back?"

· Instead of "Ta-Dah!", the default opening sound would be "Dueling Banjos."

· The "Recycle Bin" in Micr'sawft Winders95 would be an outhouse, and labelled as such.

· "My Computer" is called "This Infernal Contraption", "Dialup Networking" is called "Good Ol' Boys", "Control Panel" is known as the "Dern Dashboard", "Hard Drive" is referred to as "4-wheel drive", and floppies are them little ole plastic disc thangs.

· New Shutdown wav: Y'all come back now, Yah hear?

Since Burkeson never has an original thought, he must steal the work of others and pass it off as his own.

RT

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 09:30 AM
Rob,

Are you still here? This morning I challenged all your crooked cronies and felonious friends to step up to the plate and support you on the limb you have found yourself out on and all hear are crickets. It is beginning to appear that for all the supposed good you accomplish you are still about as popular around here as a fart in church, imagine my surprise. ;)

Maybe you should call over to ASHI and get a bunch of your pro-licensing goons to come over here and support you in your thus far failed efforts to have me silenced, what you think? Don't worry I'll loan you the friggin' quarter. :)

BTW Do ya really think anyone thought that I wrote the Microsoft / North Carolina thingy?

You know, the way you come round here every so often to piss & moan about everything is leading me to consider that Rob just might be short for Roberta, if that is truly the case you might want to try Midol for those monthly cramps. :D

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 04:02 PM
Rob,

Are you still here? This morning I challenged all your crooked cronies and felonious friends to step up to the plate and support you on the limb you have found yourself out on and all hear are crickets. It is beginning to appear that for all the supposed good you accomplish you are still about as popular around here as a fart in church, imagine my surprise.

I don’t know to whom you refer, but you can raise your concerns with them directly. I’m not responsible for your fantasies.

Maybe you should call over to ASHI and get a bunch of your pro-licensing goons to come over here and support you in your thus far failed efforts to have me silenced, what you think? Don't worry I'll loan you the friggin' quarter.

Who wants you silenced? If I wanted you to be silent, I wouldn’t keep goading you.

BTW Do ya really think anyone thought that I wrote the Microsoft / North Carolina thingy?

Apparently, you think plagiarism is acceptable if everyone knows you stole someone else’s intellectual property. Personally, anytime you post something that is spelled correctly, I assume you lifted it from the internet.

You know, the way you come round here every so often to piss & moan about everything is leading me to consider that Rob just might be short for Roberta, if that is truly the case you might want to try Midol for those monthly cramps.

Here’s where our approaches differ. I comment about the things you write, and the things you have done. I’m perfectly happy to give you the opportunity to make a fool of yourself as you try to explain the inexplicable.

You fabricate stories about me and anyone else who doesn’t agree with you because you:
· can’t support any of the incredible claims you make about yourself,
· can’t offer a legitimate criticism about my ability or experience, which far surpasses your own,
· don’t have the courage to put your money where your mouth is.

How desperate would someone have to be to attend a class you teach?

RT

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 04:14 PM
If I'm so powerless why would an dipstick like you have to bother to prove anything about himself to me. I would never waste my time trying to prove anything to you as I have no respect for you to begin with and your opinion is worthless. I can only laugh, out loud and if you were here in your face, what a maroon!

“an dipstick”?

You write that you would never waste your time proving anything to me, yet you spend an inordinate amount of time responding to every message I post. I know, and everyone else here knows now, that you would jump to prove your boasts if you could. Every time you are challenged, you tuck your tail. For a guy who pretends to be wealthy, $10,000 sure means a lot to you.

Clermont is a white-trash magnet, a place where people end up a when they can't afford to either live in Orlando or Tampa, Its a dreary little whistle-stop on Route 52 and I am thankful that no one from that hell hole knows me, I must be doing something right. BTW, I am sure you found Clermont charming as many houses there have wheels. To sum up, Clermont is never anyone's destination it is a 2nd or 3rd place people settle for when they can't afford what they really want, you know... like where you live.

Florida is a peninsula surrounded by water and Clermont is a place where you can talk to crowds who have lived in Florida for decades and have never been to the beach. I find it hysterically funny that you would come all the way to Florida only to end up in a place like Clermont where people are either born or sentenced there due to bad choices, very fitting.

You pretend that you won’t take the time to verify any of the information that that you publish here, as if your time was important, yet you are willing to write two paragraphs of insulting garbage about a place I stopped to buy gasoline. That tells me you have plenty of time, but nothing to say.

Hey does it bother you that I don't answer your lame-ass questions or attempt to counter your liquor-induced accusations... well I hope so.

I know you hope so, but it isn’t to be. I know you won’t answer any of the challenges I make, because you can’t. I don’t challenge you to learn the truth I already know, I do it so you will spend your time showing yourself to everyone else here. I come along every month or so just to pull your string and watch you jump.

Too bad you couldn't get just one loser like yourself to stick up for you, I mean here is a thread with close to 2,000 hits and you have zero, zilch, nada supporters, no is going to step-up for you, Oh the humanity.

I don’t need any help shooting fish in a barrel. In fact, my plan is proceeding perfectly.
RT

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 06:00 PM
Robin, WTF kind of name is Robin, I'll bet you used to get your ass kicked daily on the way home from school and that is why you are as screwed up as you are today. :D

It figures that someone who shoots their mouth off the way you do has some deep dark secrets, Is ASHI aware that your name is Robin and not the kinder, gentler Robert, how about the licensing board? What else have you lied about? Why would you use a bogus website address for your ASHI listing? Do you drive up to inspections in your Batmobile (http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ofX-vblHoxo)? :)

ASHI Listing:
Robert Thomas
R. Thomas & Company Home Inspections
Raleigh, NC 27615
(919) 870-7437
nchomeinspections.com (http://nchomeinspections.com)

NC Licensing Board Listing:
Robert S Thomas # 748
7474 Creedmoor Rd., PMB 124
Raleigh NC 27613
(919) 870-7437
NC Home Inspections - R. Thomas & Company - home inspector wake county (http://www.rthomascompany.com/)

Copied Directly Off Your Website:
7474 Creedmoor Rd., Suite 124
Raleigh, NC 27613
Office: (919) 870-7437
Pager: (919) 899-5407
Fax: (919) 846-5159
Email: robin@rthomascompany.com

BANG! I think I heard the pistol shot! ;)

Game Is On - No More Secrets! :D

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 06:29 PM
That's not me, moron. Really.

Thanks for wasting your day on this fool's errand, though. While you were obsessing about me, I was inspecting a townhouse.

Maybe you should try marketing a little to fill some of your free time.

RT

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 07:04 PM
Oh yeah you are a liar for sure, let's walk through the evidence.



Robert Thomas
R. Thomas & Company Home Inspections
Raleigh, NC 27615
(919) 870-7437
nchomeinspections.com (http://nchomeinspections.com)

Robert S. Thomas is an ASHI Inspector who has met the rigorous requirements to be a provider of The ASHI Experience, a professional home inspection that combines the highest technical skills with superior customer service. Use the contact information form below or call the home inspector directly to ask questions and schedule your home inspection.




There is only one Thomas in North Carolina who is a member of ASHI, here is the ASHI search link so if this ain't you then you are lying about being an ASHI member either way you are a liar. I'll bet $10K it is you, put your money where your mouth is liar. :)

Find a home inspector | ASHI, American Society of Home Inspectors (http://www.ashi.org/find/)




Here is the list of North Carolina Home Inspectors (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/HILB/Documents/DirectoryAlphaHI.pdf).

There are three NC Licensed Thomas's listed in the state directory, which one are you? Only one is an ASHI member.

Norman Thomas # 1995
1729 Leonard Road
Salisbury NC 28146
(704) 213-1890

Robert S Thomas # 748
7474 Creedmoor Rd., PMB 124
Raleigh NC 27613
(919) 870-7437

Robert B. Thomas # 1507
379 Whispher Park Court
Wilmington NC 28411
(910) 686-9081




I think the real reason that you are attempting to hide your identity from us is your documented incompetence (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/HILB/Documents/HILBActions.pdf), you should be ashamed of yourself a certified incompetent inspector causing problems for the rest of us.

THOMAS, Robin
License 748
Complaint filed: January 6, 2003 (Raleigh)
30 day suspended license; one year probation; 8 additional hours of CE (four hours in structural and four hours in report writing); submit three reports for review.

You might want to consider becoming ICC Certified, might prevent your license being suspended in the future. :D

Wait till I post this story over on the NACHI board, I can't believe you are such a certified screw up.

Yes I agree... shooting fish in a barrel. You just can't make this stuff up... :D

Hey Peck do you believe one of his good buddies gave him up? Think he will pay up? Who would have thought, can't wait for Rob, or Robert or Robins response should be a hoot!

That is what makes me the perfect anti-licensing abmasador... intelligent, certified, experienced, proven leadership, connected & squeaky friggin' clean. :)

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 07:44 PM
Apparently, you think plagiarism is acceptable if everyone knows you stole someone else’s intellectual property. Personally, anytime you post something that is spelled correctly, I assume you lifted it from the Internet.



Yeah, maybe but I am a rock-solid certified inspector. :)

Apparently you think you are a competent home inspector, but it looks like the North Carolina Licensing Board disagrees (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/HILB/Documents/HILBActions.pdf). ;)

I am hoping is is just a case of simple incompetence and you were not out deliberately cheating customers, in any case you have established yourself here as someone who should not to be looked up to or to be trusted in any leadership position.

I was surprised when no one on this message board ever came to your defense, now I understand, most likely they knew about your run in with the licensing board and were just embarrassed for you,

I believe ASHI needs to look into their membership prerequisites, looks like you fell through the cracks and were not ready to be listed as a full member. The NACHI requirements would have most likely screened you out.

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 07:49 PM
That's not me, moron.


RT




Oh yeah you are a liar for sure, let's walk through the evidence.





There is only one Thomas in North Carolina who is a member of ASHI, here is the ASHI search link so if this ain't you then you are lying about being an ASHI member either way you are a liar. I'll bet $10K it is you, put your money where your mouth is liar. :)

Find a home inspector | ASHI, American Society of Home Inspectors (http://www.ashi.org/find/)






I think the real reason that you are attempting to hide your identity from us is your documented incompetence (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/HILB/Documents/HILBActions.pdf), you should be ashamed of yourself a certified incompetent inspector causing problems for the rest of us.

THOMAS, Robin
License 748
Complaint filed: January 6, 2003 (Raleigh)
30 day suspended license; one year probation; 8 additional hours of CE (four hours in structural and four hours in report writing); submit three reports for review.

You might want to consider becoming ICC Certified, might prevent your license being suspended in the future. :D

Wait till I post this story over on the NACHI board, I can't believe you are such a certified screw up.

Yes I agree... shooting fish in a barrel. You just can't make this stuff up... :D

Hey Peck do you believe one of his good buddies gave him up? Think he will pay up? Who would have thought, can't wait for Rob, or Robert or Robins response should be a hoot!

That is what makes me the perfect anti-licensing abmasador... intelligent, certified, experienced, proven leadership, connected & squeaky friggin' clean. :)

Billy Stephens
10-29-2007, 08:02 PM
Fellas,

IF I could interrupt a moment.

Joe,
You might want to pack you Snow Shoes and head for Canada. You now Anti-licensing
where ever it bla-bla you know the rest.

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 08:10 PM
How desperate would someone have to be to attend a class you teach?




Becoming ICC certified in one or more professional categories represents a significant accomplishment that offers national recognition of your achievement; increased earning and career advancement potential; and proof of your knowledge, technical expertise and commitment to protect public health safety and welfare.



Education & experience help inspectors in understanding what is required to perform competent home inspections. Assurance Check, LLC (http://assurancecheck.net/) has been responsible for helping over two hundred home inspectors gain ICC (http://www.iccsafe.org/) Certified Building Inspector status. Of all of the our students across three states we know of none who have had to be sanctioned by their state licensing board for infractions (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/HILB/Documents/HILBActions.pdf) like you have.

My partner Greg Bell has just been voted the president of Florida NACHI, one of his goals over the next three years is for each & every Florida NACHI member (about 600 members) to be certified as an ICC Residential Combination Inspector (http://www.iccsafe.org/certification/2007/pdf/2007Bulletin_CodeProfessionals.pdf). I think it is a worthy goal, what are your plans?

Dan Harris
10-29-2007, 08:11 PM
I believe ASHI needs to look into their membership prerequisites, looks like you fell through the cracks and were not ready to be listed as a full member. The NACHI requirements would have most likely screened you out.

Joe... Are you competing with Harvey Hempelstein for the next nacho member of the year ?? :) :)

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 08:28 PM
I believe ASHI needs to look into their membership prerequisites, looks like you fell through the cracks and were not ready to be listed as a full member. The NACHI requirements would have most likely screened you out.

Joe... Are you competing with Harvey Hempelstein for the next nacho member of the year ?? :) :)




No, the facts (check out my previous posts) are the facts, Rob, Robin whatever is an incompetent home inspector who has been sanctioned by his state for violating some portion of his states home inspection law. Furthermore he has been in my face for months attempting to prove his superiority when in fact he most likely (based on his record) would not be able to pass the NACHI exam or prerequisites. Prove me wrong.

Rob is the poster boy of why licensing doesn't work and why legislation is unable to raise the bar. The law was written to prevent Rob's incompetence from effecting the public and who did the state issue a license to... Rob.

Rob Thomas is both an embarrassment to our profession in general and ASHI in particular, I am just very thankful that he does not represent NACHI.

Rob, you out there... what say you, are you gonna let this go unchallenged?

A man has gotta know his limitations. :D

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 09:15 PM
That's not me, moron.


RT




Prove it, who are you and what is your North Carolina license number (it is public knowledge), or have you lied and you are performing home inspections in North Carolina without a license?

If you are not Rob Thomas ASHI Inspector, North Carolina License #748 then WTF are you. There is only one North Carolina ASHI inspector named Thomas, if it ain't you, then you have lied about being an ASHI inspector.

Obviously the Rob Thomas who is the ASHI inspector is the very same Robin Thomas who the licensing Board sanctioned, now WTF are you?

Or maybe you have just lied about your InspectionNews identity, if that is the case may be you should research your alias prior to stealing a name and find one that hasn't been sanctioned by the North Carolina Home Inspector Board. :D

Let us know what story works for you loser. :)

You know what, I'm just gonna send this whole thread over to the North Carolina licensing board in the morning and let then figure out which friggin' Thomas you are.

BTW you can use your standard response to me... listing each of my statements then answering them. Get your story right. :)

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 09:26 PM
I have proven you to be wrong, I have proven you to be untruthful, and I have proven you to be a plagiarist.

Now, in an apparent effort to assist me, you are determined to prove your own ineptitude by claiming some guy in Raleigh is me.

Here’s what you can do to prove to yourself how wrong you are. See if the guy in Raleigh was in Florida this summer. I suspect he wasn’t.

In contrast, I was.

Or, you can see if he is in Raleigh tomorrow. He probably will be. I’ll be in the mountains. I hope they have WiFi.

Or, you can ask him about the bad wreck that blocked I-77 between 18 and 36 today, but since he was in Raleigh, he probably doesn't know about a traffic jam across the state.


I told you that you were wrong, but you wouldn't listen.


Facts can be a real pain in the ass sometimes, can't they?

RT




No, the facts (check out my previous posts) are the facts, Rob, Robin whatever is an incompetent home inspector who has been sanctioned by his state for violating some portion of his states home inspection law. Furthermore he has been in my face for months attempting to prove his superiority when in fact he most likely (based on his record) would not be able to pass the NACHI exam or prerequisites. Prove me wrong.

Rob is the poster boy of why licensing doesn't work and why legislation is unable to raise the bar. The law was written to prevent Rob's incompetence from effecting the public and who did the state issue a license to... Rob.

Rob Thomas is both an embarrassment to our profession in general and ASHI in particular, I am just very thankful that he does not represent NACHI.

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 09:36 PM
I have proven you to be wrong, I have proven you to be untruthful, and I have proven you to be a plagiarist.



You have proved squat, but I am sure the North Carolina Licensing Board will be able to get to the bottom of it, there are only so many inspectors named Thomas legally performing home inspections in North Carolina.

What about your ASHI status are you a member or a liar?

You have lied in some way about your identity and you can bet your ass I will leave no stone unturned in finding the slimy rock you are hiding under. ;)

Lewis Capaul
10-29-2007, 09:41 PM
Education & experience help inspectors in understanding what is required to perform competent home inspections. Assurance Check, LLC (http://assurancecheck.net/) has been responsible for helping over two hundred home inspectors gain ICC (http://www.iccsafe.org/) Certified Building Inspector status. Of all of the our students across three states we know of none who have had to be sanctioned by their state licensing board for infractions (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/HILB/Documents/HILBActions.pdf) like you have.

My partner Greg Bell has just been voted the president of Florida NACHI, one of his goals over the next three years is for each & every Florida NACHI member (about 600 members) to be certified as an ICC Residential Combination Inspector (http://www.iccsafe.org/certification/2007/pdf/2007Bulletin_CodeProfessionals.pdf). I think it is a worthy goal, what are your plans?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy all your members the InterNachi Certified Master Inspector designation. You accused some one of possibly "cheating" their customers, don't you think that the many Nachi members who purchased that designation when it was first offered, most of whom are no where near the 1000 inspection the CMI website says they have, are cheating or at least deceiving their coustomers.

How much money do you and Greg plan on making off your members from your ICC Boot Camps and other Vendor provided training courses of unknown worth? It seems all the Nachi hierarchy are Vendors, preying on a captive membership, of course that was Nick's goal, to gather newbie Home Inspectors into a cluster where they would be easy targets for anyone with plans and training of dubious worth for sale. Do you offer Free Nachi Membership like the rest of Nick's Vendors?

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 09:54 PM
Rob,

Here is my plan, let me know what you think, I am gonna contact the North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board and send them this thread.

I am going to explain that there is some home inspector using the name Rob Thomas on this message board who is performing home inspections in North Carolina but claims he is not the Robert Thomas listed on the North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board website, think they will be interested? If you ain't that Rob Thomas, then that probably means that there are unlicensed home inspections being conducted, see where this is going.

I am sure when the board contacts Brian he will be forced to share with them your full identity just to get to the bottom of the inquiry.

Hey, are you feeling me, still think licensing is a good thing, still want to play? :D

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 09:56 PM
Every word I have posted is true. Otherwise, what would be the point?

You, on the other hand, have made some incorrect assumptions about the limited information I have provided, and I have been only too happy to allow you the freedom to be wrong.

To be fair, though, I told Bushart 2 years ago that the guy in Raleigh wasn't me. That post may be available in the archives, if you don't believe me.

RT



You have proved squat, but I am sure the North Carolina Licensing Board will be able to get to the bottom of it, there are only so many inspectors named Thomas legally performing home inspections in North Carolina.

You have lied in some way about your identity and you can bet your ass I will leave no stone unturned in finding the slimy rock you are hiding under. ;)

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 10:06 PM
if you don't believe me...



I don't, but since you are in a licensed state there are no secrets, let me know what you think of my plan.

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/22937-post158.html

Rob Thomas
10-29-2007, 10:27 PM
Please proceed with your plan. Also please explain to them why Bushart was posting under the assumed name of Hempelstern, and why you wrote so many unflattering things about the state of North Carolina, and licensing in North Carolina. Make sure you don’t edit the thread in any way. There are probably some sanctions involved if you try to defraud a state board by offering incomplete or altered records.

Also please ask Brian to open those unread private messages you sent to my inbox and have them forwarded to the licensing board as well. I don’t know what you wrote, but I’m sure it will give the commissioners an accurate impression of your character.

Since I am fully authorized to perform all the work for which I have issued reports, and since I have provided every client with a service that exceeded expectations, I am completely certain that the commissioners will see you for the fool you are, and wonder why you wasted their time.

RT




Rob,

Here is my plan, let me know what you think, I am gonna contact the North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board and send them this thread.

I am going to explain that there is some home inspector using the name Rob Thomas on this message board who is performing home inspections in North Carolina but claims he is not the Robert Thomas listed on the North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board website, think they will be interested? If you ain't that Rob Thomas, then that probably means that there are unlicensed home inspections being conducted, see where this is going.

I am sure when the board contacts Brian he will be forced to share with them your full identity just to get to the bottom of the inquiry.

Hey, are you feeling me, still think licensing is a good thing, still want to play? :D

Deleted Account
10-29-2007, 10:30 PM
Please proceed with your plan. Also please explain to them why Bushart was posting under the assumed name of Hempelstern, and why you wrote so many unflattering things about the state of North Carolina, and licensing in North Carolina. Make sure you don’t edit the thread in any way. There are probably some sanctions involved if you try to defraud a state board by offering incomplete or altered records.

Also please ask Brian to open those unread private messages you sent to my inbox and have them forwarded to the licensing board as well. I don’t know what you wrote, but I’m sure it will give the commissioners an accurate impression of your character.

Since I am fully authorized to perform all the work for which I have issued reports, and since I have provided every client with a service that exceeded expectations, I am completely certain that the commissioners will see you for the fool you are, and wonder why you wasted their time.

RT




Game is on then, you play it your way and I'll play it mine. :D

Deleted Account
10-30-2007, 06:39 AM
(a) Licensees shall discharge their duties with fidelity to the public, their clients, and with fairness and impartiality to all.
(b) Opinions expressed by licensees shall only be based on their education, experience, and honest convictions.
(c) A licensee shall not disclose any information about the results of an inspection without the approval of the client for whom the inspection was performed, or the client’s designated representative.
(d) No licensee shall accept compensation or any other consideration from more than one interested party for the same service without the consent of all interested parties.
(e) No licensee shall accept or offer commissions or allowances, directly or indirectly, from other parties dealing with the client in connection with work for which the licensee is responsible.
(f) No licensee shall express, within the context of an inspection, an appraisal or opinion of the market value of the inspected property.
(g) Before the execution of a contract to perform a home inspection, a licensee shall disclose to the client any interest in a business that may affect the client. No licensee shall allow his or her interest in any business to affect the quality or results of the inspection work that the licensee may be called upon to perform.
(h) Licensees shall not engage in false or misleading advertising or otherwise misrepresent any matters to the public.



It appears the North Carolina Home Inspector Code of Ethics (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/HILB/Documents/HILB_SOP.pdf) forbids home inspectors from engaging in false or misleading advertising or otherwise misrepresenting any matters to the public.

InspectionNews is a public message board, the question becomes does the public have a right to know the identity of any licensed North Carolina home inspector who publicly posts on home inspection websites, or is it acceptable by the licensing board of North Carolina home for inspectors to use false identities on public message boards to shield their remarks from the public?

Furthermore is the operator of a public message board where home inspectors regularly post under any obligation to the public to make sure those who post on their message board are not using false identities to circumvent state law so as to misrepresent themselves and mislead the public for private gain?

I believe these are valid questions that need to be asked both of the operator of this message board and the North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/hilb/engineering_hilb_contact.asp), what do you think? We will soon find out.

Brian Hannigan
10-30-2007, 12:40 PM
This has gone under the radar. Georgia General Assembly - SB 334 (http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2007_08/search/sb334.htm)

Does anyone have any information about this legislation? On the surface it looks like a fairly good bill.


Out of the 162 replies to the topic " [/URL] Georgia home inspector license in the works (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-commercial-inspectors/#)" I think only about ten deal with Georgia legislation.

Do not post anything else here unless it is on topic and more importantly complies to the message board rules.

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I do not actively monitor the board so if you see a post that does not comply to the rules and/or is disruptive of peaceful, ethical inspection related information or education please click the " http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/images/ca_evo/buttons/report.gif (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/report.php?p=22948) " button in the objectionable post. As soon as I can I will check the post and take appropriate action.

Rick Cantrell
10-30-2007, 01:19 PM
Columbus Georgia has had special requirements for an HI licence a few years now. The requirements are essentially the same as the state proposed requirements.

Brian, glad to see you intervene.
Oh yeah, thanks for the spell check.

Lewis Capaul
10-30-2007, 01:30 PM
"InspectionNews is a public message board, the question becomes does the public have a right to know the identity of any licensed North Carolina home inspector who publicly posts on home inspection websites, or is it acceptable by the licensing board of North Carolina home for inspectors to use false identities on public message boards to shield their remarks from the public?

Furthermore is the operator of a public message board where home inspectors regularly post under any obligation to the public to make sure those who post on their message board are not using false identities to circumvent state law so as to misrepresent themselves and mislead the public for private gain?

I believe these are valid questions that need to be asked both of the operator of this message board and the North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board, what do you think? We will soon find out."

Joe you should ask those same questions of Bushart and your CMI's, a designation created to deceive clients into believing they are hiring a qualified Master Inspector, instead of as Nick, Bushart (Harvey H.) and others Nachi leaders have stated, to allow an inspector to raise his rates. As a self proclaimed Nachi leader, you live in a glass house when it comes to misrepresentation and deception, you shouldn't throw stones.

Bob White
10-30-2007, 02:18 PM
Columbus Georgia has had special requirements for an HI licence a few years now. The requirements are essentially the same as the state proposed requirements.

Brian, glad to see you intervene.
Oh yeah, thanks for the spell check.


Rick, is that the city of Columbus, or the a county governmental body?

I'm not likely to (read, I'll never) get that far south for a job, but on the rare happenstance that someone from "out of town" rolled into Columbus to do an inspection, does he/she need to be licensed locally?

Scott Patterson
10-30-2007, 02:19 PM
"InspectionNews is a public message board, the question becomes does the public have a right to know the identity of any licensed North Carolina home inspector who publicly posts on home inspection websites, or is it acceptable by the licensing board of North Carolina home for inspectors to use false identities on public message boards to shield their remarks from the public?

Furthermore is the operator of a public message board where home inspectors regularly post under any obligation to the public to make sure those who post on their message board are not using false identities to circumvent state law so as to misrepresent themselves and mislead the public for private gain?

I believe these are valid questions that need to be asked both of the operator of this message board and the North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board, what do you think? We will soon find out."

Joe you should ask those same questions of Bushart and your CMI's, a designation created to deceive clients into believing they are hiring a qualified Master Inspector, instead of as Nick, Bushart (Harvey H.) and others Nachi leaders have stated, to allow an inspector to raise his rates. As a self proclaimed Nachi leader, you live in a glass house when it comes to misrepresentation and deception, you shouldn't throw stones.

I really don't think that this is a public board. Yes it can be viewed by the public but it is owned by a single person who allows folks to use it. When a person signs up an email is sent to the email address that they sign in with, if it is fake I don't know of any method that would detect it. If they respond then they are granted permission to use the board. This is the verification process. This is the same process that NACHI uses on their board. Same process that TIJ uses as well.

Deleted Account
10-30-2007, 02:50 PM
I really don't think that this is a public board. Yes it can be viewed by the public but it is owned by a single person who allows folks to use it. When a person signs up an email is sent to the email address that they sign in with, if it is fake I don't know of any method that would detect it. If they respond then they are granted permission to use the board. This is the verification process. This is the same process that NACHI uses on their board. Same process that TIJ uses as well.



I hear what you are saying, but I think the board is public in the sense that people from outside the home inspection profession can and do browse the messages.

That being said, I realize that you are correct in there is really no foolproof method to prevent someone who is hell-bent on being duplicitous from acquiring a log-in.

Maybe a policy that Brian might consider is full disclosure in regards to name, address, email to cut down on those who hide behind an alias.

Rick Cantrell
10-30-2007, 03:45 PM
Bob
"Rick, is that the city of Columbus, or the a county governmental body?"

Columbus Consolidated Government.
was the first City/ County government in Georgia to consolidate, 1967 I think.

"I'm not likely to (read, I'll never) get that far south for a job, but on the rare happenstance that someone from "out of town" rolled into Columbus to do an inspection, does he/she need to be licensed locally?"

Yes
They could have a business license from any City/ County in Georgia, but would still need the HI license from Columbus (or any government that has essentially the same requirements).

Bob White
10-31-2007, 09:08 AM
OK, Rick, you've got me wondering, here....

I wonder how many towns/localities in GA have similar restrictions?

I guess I'd better start researching all the towns/cities/podunks in my NW GA area.

Rick Cantrell
10-31-2007, 09:22 AM
To my knowledge only Columbus requires it now.
Columbus was also the first to require a General contractors license (about 25 years ago), Georgia will have a state GC 01/01/08 (or is it 09?).

Bob White
10-31-2007, 09:26 AM
To my knowledge only Columbus requires it now.
Columbus was also the first to require a General contractors license (about 25 years ago), Georgia will have a state GC 01/01/08 (or is it 09?).


I wouldn't be surprised if the back that out another year or two (again)... 2020?

Rick Cantrell
10-31-2007, 09:36 AM
I hope so, sent my paperwork in last year and have not heard back yet. My Dad sent his in at the same time, his was returned "DENIED". Seem he made an error on a form.