Zip System Sheathing

[Dylan Whitehead]

Has anyone had any experiance with this?
What are your thoughts on it?

ZIP System Wall - Huber Engineered Woods (http://huberwood.com/main.aspx?pagename=zipsystemwalloverview)

[Jerry Peck]

My thoughts?

When they put a tongue on the panels and then touch tongue-to-tongue they have not created "self spacing" panels, they have simply reduced the amount of sheathing in contact with the other sheathing which will crush against each other.

Then, when you look in the installation instructions, it states that the 1/8" "spacing" is only maintained along the long edge of 8' panels, with only half that where long edge meets a short edge (giving only 1/16" of real spacing to the now 1/16" tongue) and no spacing where 4' edges meet (installer must still manually space those edges).

From the #S Reports linked to on their site: " ... wood structural panels and is overlaid on one side with a medium-density, phenolic-impregnated, kraft paper overlay".

How will is that "kraft paper overlay" stand up to stacking, sliding, moving, scraping, walking on, eating lunch on, etc., which happens to all structural panels delivered to job sites - they make the best tables for everything, including 'working on' for other trades?

I'm thinking it is *NOT* something I would want to waste my money on and would *NOT* want it on my house.

[Dylan Whitehead]

Okay, let me ask a more direct question.
Would this system have to have a house wrap installed over it or can they attached the bick ties and continue as is?
Their reports that are linked on the site says that it meets the 2006 IRC and that it is substituted as the WRB.

I guess this is what I was looking for thoughts on.

[A.D. Miller]

Okay, let me ask a more direct question.
Would this system have to have a house wrap installed over it or can they attached the bick ties and continue as is?
Their reports that are linked on the site says that it meets the 2006 IRC and that it is substituted as the WRB.

I guess this is what I was looking for thoughts on.

Dylan: House wrap would be superfluous with this system. Unlike JP, I like this stuff.
;)

[Scott Patterson]

I have been seeing this product for about 3 years. I have not seen any problems with it, but it is still on the early side for problems to start rearing the ugly little head. I have only seen it used on brick homes in the $400,000+ market.

If it is going to fail it will be at the joints and seams. The sticky mastic type tape can not be repositioned if it is placed wrong. A new strip must be used. I have seen several tape joints that had crooked tape and some tape just hanging in place.

I guess we need to just give it a little more time.

Like Aaron, I kind of like the product.

[Dylan Whitehead]

Thanks for the input. This was the first time I have ever ran across this, granted this house is not in that price range, but the owner has also installed a complete storm sheltered bathroom which is a neat feature.

[Gary Anglin]

I've swapped some emails with their products folks. I had plans to use it if/when we ever build the new house. Over on Contractors Talk site there were equal numbers of pro and con.

Long and short of the info. from Huber was that the only problems they have had were the result of improper installation. The main one was installation that placed the panels down on a concrete ledge for example. Any exposure to water build up will cause the sheathing to swell at the bottom.

[Jeff Remas]

I believe this is the stuff that you can span trusses that are 24" o.c. and not require H clips.

[chris mcintyre]

FWIW,I have used it and one advantage over house wrap is the air seal it gives you if you are trying to achieve an Energy Star rating.

Like the others said time will tell, but so far so good.

[Door Guy]

My concern is with the installation of doors and windows. You can't install the drip cap or window flange under the building wrap as it is fastened to the OSB. Your back to relying on caulking and window tape. How have you guys been seeing the installation of windows and doors?

[A.D. Miller]

My concern is with the installation of doors and windows. You can't install the drip cap or window flange under the building wrap as it is fastened to the OSB. Your back to relying on caulking and window tape. How have you guys been seeing the installation of windows and doors?

DG: For windows with nailing flanges, caulking the flanges before installation and using "window tape" as you refer to self-adhesive butyl flashing is the preferred method as per ASTM and AAMA, which are listed references in the ICC literature. What do you know that no one else seems to know?

[Door Guy]

DG: For windows with nailing flanges, caulking the flanges before installation and using "window tape" as you refer to self-adhesive butyl flashing is the preferred method as per ASTM and AAMA, which are listed references in the ICC literature. What do you know that no one else seems to know?

A.D. Sorry, I'm not completely sold yet on the butyl tape for flashing. I live in a cold climate (atleast the winter) and it doesn't seem to stick well when it's cold or even when it's applied warm and gets cold. We now install windows by cutting an upside down martini glass in the building wrap. Then cut small 45 angle cuts in the upper corner, caulk under the wrap, and slip the window flange under the building wrap. This acts as a drip cap over the window. We also use the butyl tape and caulk in conjunction with this method. I can give you a link if you want. One of them is to my site, but I don't want anyone to feel that I'm trying to advertise. However, I'm not the only one that knows this secret. :D

I really like the idea of the Zip System. How great to have sheathing with everything applied. It's even somewhat protected just lying around. I don't have any concern with the edges having the stand-off tongue and expanding together. In fact I wish all OSB had something like that. We normally use an 8d. nail as a spacer gauge in OSB, that works well. Have you have much experience with it A.D.? I would like to try it, especially for a roof deck.

[James DeLaPlaine]

My associates and I have inspected three apartment projects during construction where this system was installed. Two were in Florida. We assisted with the details to integrate the waterproofing at windows, doors, and wall penetrations with the Zip System panels. As long as all the panel joints were properly taped and all penetrations were integrated and sealed (to the panels), the Zip System performed as intended without an additional weather resistive barrier under brick, stacked stone, and siding. Building paper was installed under stucco, though more as a protection course and bond breaker than as waterproofing. The first phase of the first project (in Florida) was completed about one year ago and there have been no reports of problems to date.

[Door Guy]

My associates and I have inspected three apartment projects during construction where this system was installed. Two were in Florida. We assisted with the details to integrate the waterproofing at windows, doors, and wall penetrations with the Zip System panels. As long as all the panel joints were properly taped and all penetrations were integrated and sealed (to the panels), the Zip System performed as intended without an additional weather resistive barrier under brick, stacked stone, and siding. Building paper was installed under stucco, though more as a protection course and bond breaker than as waterproofing. The first phase of the first project (in Florida) was completed about one year ago and there have been no reports of problems to date.

Thanks James, Did the other complex happen to be in a cold climate. I was just wondering about the ice barrier requirement on roofs, extending 2' above the interior wall line? Do you know how that is being addressed?

[chris mcintyre]

ice barrier requirement on roofs, extending 2' above the interior wall line


Roof Guy (aka Door Guy),
Not that it would ever be an issue here, but what is this.

Just curious.

[Door Guy]

Roof Guy (aka Door Guy),
Not that it would ever be an issue here, but what is this.

Just curious.

I like that (roof guy aka door guy) that's a good one.:D

The Michigan code (really an IRC replica) section 905.2.7.1 In areas where there has been a history of ice forming along the eaves causing a backup of water as designated in talbe R301.2(1) , an ice barrier that consists of a least two layers of underlayment cemented together or of a self-adhering polymer modified bitumen sheet, shall be used in lieu of normal underlayment and extend from the lowest edges of all roof surfaces to a point of at least 24" inside the exterior wall line of the building. AKA Ice and Storm Guard...

I'm sure you don't have this issue there. Just wonder how it's addressed with the Zip System?

[chris mcintyre]

I like that (roof guy aka door guy) that's a good one.:D

The Michigan code (really an IRC replica) section 905.2.7.1 In areas where there has been a history of ice forming along the eaves causing a backup of water as designated in talbe R301.2(1) , an ice barrier that consists of a least two layers of underlayment cemented together or of a self-adhering polymer modified bitumen sheet, shall be used in lieu of normal underlayment and extend from the lowest edges of all roof surfaces to a point of at least 24" inside the exterior wall line of the building. AKA Ice and Storm Guard...

I'm sure you don't have this issue there. Just wonder how it's addressed with the Zip System?

Thanks for the info, that's a good question for the Huber people.:)

[James DeLaPlaine]

Thanks James, Did the other complex happen to be in a cold climate. I was just wondering about the ice barrier requirement on roofs, extending 2' above the interior wall line? Do you know how that is being addressed?

None of the referenced projects were in cold climates, and the Sip System was only on the walls. Are you contemplating using this sheathing system on a steep slope roof?

[Door Guy]

None of the referenced projects were in cold climates, and the Sip System was only on the walls. Are you contemplating using this sheathing system on a steep slope roof?

When I first saw the product, I thought what a great idea. I would like to try it, but I am a little hesitant until I know what is working for ice protection. I am also concerned about the tape over the joints. If it holds up in the cold? Is the paper on the OSB slip resistant?...

[James DeLaPlaine]

When I first saw the product, I thought what a great idea. I would like to try it, but I am a little hesitant until I know what is working for ice protection. I am also concerned about the tape over the joints. If it holds up in the cold? Is the paper on the OSB slip resistant?...

Again, I don't have any experience with this system in cold climates or its application as roof sheathing.

[Marcel Cyr]

It's an excellent product, used it last summer. Windows are flashed in the same way, no WRB, and no felt paper on the roof.
Here is a picture for you.


http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/mcyr/SDC11041.jpg




This is the link on the product;

http://www.huberwood.com/main.aspx?p...endtozipsystem (http://www.huberwood.com/main.aspx?p...endtozipsystem)

When installed properly per the Manufactures Instructions, there was no problem with the sheathing being exposed to inclement weather for 3-months.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/mcyr/SDC10789.jpg


:)




[/IMG]

[Michael Patton]

The previous post references the use for roof sheathing without felt paper. Anyone know if the roofing/shingle manufacturers have bought into this as I remember the felt is also part of the fire rating for shingles?

[Marcel Cyr]

Good question Michael, I asked myself the same when it came out.

Here is some write-up on it;

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geusMalApLQWcBpZVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzaHY1MXZ oBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4MjNfMTA1/SIG=140fmh58r/EXP=1259070874/**http%3a//www.tamko.com/Portals/0/documents/Huber%2520Engineered%2520Wood%2520Zip%2520System%2 520%2520final.pdf

Page two of the ESR;

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geut8ylQpLBSsAvkZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzNnN1ZjR nBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y4MjNfMTA1/SIG=12fn2a2va/EXP=1259071154/**http%3a//www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-1473.pdf

Hope this helps.:)

[John Kogel]

Thanks James, Did the other complex happen to be in a cold climate. I was just wondering about the ice barrier requirement on roofs, extending 2' above the interior wall line? Do you know how that is being addressed?From the pdf posted by Marcel above, under section 5 Conditions of Use -
"5.6 An ice dam membrane must be provided ...."

[Marcel Cyr]

Your correct John, and I believe that the ice and water shield requirement is soley to meet the local code requirements adopted. :)