PDA

View Full Version : Water Heater Clearanance?



Rick Hurst
03-11-2009, 06:50 PM
Bradford White water heater located at attic space next to return air duct. What is the minimum clearance? I'm thinking (5) inches from the front of the water heater casing but not for sure.

Yeah, yeah, I noticed I spelled Clearance improperly. Why can't we edit the title's, Brian?

Rick

Jim Luttrall
03-11-2009, 07:02 PM
MINIMUM CLEARANCES
WARNING
Failure to adhere to these installation and operating instructions may
create a hazard to life and property and will nullify the warranty.
This installation shall allow access to the front of the water heater and
adequate clearance shall be provided for servicing and operating this water
heater.
This is from a Bradford White manual
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/manuals/238_44219_00G.pdf

Nolan Kienitz
03-12-2009, 06:26 AM
... AND ... no sediment trap on gas supply black pipe. :o

Rick Hurst
03-12-2009, 06:46 AM
Nolan,

You are correct, no sediment trap present.

Also you can't see it in that picture, but in this one you can see that some water was in the pan below.

rick

Jerry Peck
03-12-2009, 07:04 AM
Rick,

You get freezing temperatures there?

The installation instructions Jim linked to state: (bold IS IN THE instructions)

The location of this water heater is of the utmost importance. Before installing this water heater read the Installation section of these instructions. After reading these Installation and Operating Instructions, select a location for the water heater where the floor is level and is easily accessible to gas and water supply lines. DO NOT locate the water heater where water lines could be subjected to freezing temperatures. Make sure the cold water pipes are not located directly above the gas control so that condensate during humid weather does not drip on the controls.

Regarding clearance, from the 2006 IRC.

- P2801.3 Location.Water heaters and storage tanks shall be located and connected to provide access for observation, maintenance, servicing and replacement.


No "provide access" dimension given, but that photo sure looks like it does not "provide access for" those listed actions.

Jerry Peck
03-12-2009, 07:13 AM
Nolan,

You are correct, no sediment trap present.

Also you can't see it in that picture, but in this one you can see that some water was in the pan below.

rick

Rick,

Look at that pan drain connection, that fitting is not sealed to the pan, it is just loosely stuck through the pan into the coupling on the other side. That male adapter fitting tightened down into the coupling on the other side, but did not tighten down to the pan. :eek:

Yep, water in the pan, that's why I wrote up water heaters setting down in the pan and not up on blocks of some kind to keep the water heater above the overflow level of the pan, otherwise the water heater will prematurely rust out. I referred to it as water heaters are not listed or labeled for being installed submerged (or partially-submerged) in water.

I had a big go around with A. O Smith on that issue, their position is that, no, water heaters are NOT listed or labeled for being partially submerged, therefore (instead of requiring the water heater to be raised) their position is that if water gets in the pan that "someone is to immediately towel dry the water out of the pan". :rolleyes: Yeah, right, like someone is watching it 24/7 *just in case* water gets in the pan.

brian schmitt
03-12-2009, 08:38 AM
plumbing code requires a 30"x30" working space on the control side of a water heater. don't see it.

mathew stouffer
03-12-2009, 08:59 AM
Ah, now that wet piece of paper is a great idea. Now I won't have to listen to "I don't see any water in the photo."

Jerry Peck
03-12-2009, 08:59 AM
plumbing code requires a 30"x30" working space on the control side of a water heater. don't see it.

The "plumbing code" does, but the IRC does not, and the "plumbing code" is not applicable.

At least I looked for it in the IRC (because I thought it was there, used to be in the older codes) but could not find it.

If it is in the IRC, please point that out to me, I looked and looked and ... well, could not find it.

Thanks.

brian schmitt
03-12-2009, 10:50 AM
what's irc?

John Arnold
03-12-2009, 11:06 AM
what's irc?

International Residential Code

Ted Menelly
03-12-2009, 11:32 AM
what's irc?


Brian

Are you an ASHI graduate. They say 30 inches in front of a water heater. That is more than likely where you got that. Years ago I believe ITA taught that. Also just scanning around the net for different states they have particular requirement for working clearance in front of water heaters for services. I have seen 24 inches to 36 inches for clearance. There is a distance from combustibles for the hood and flue area and I guess you could use that.


Yes you do need working space in front of any water heater for servicing the unit. That is going to depend on the area you are and the manufacturers installation. I do believe Rheem tankless require 2 feet in front of those units.

Anyway you do need space and Ricks installatioin with a duct in front of it is more of a question of good building practices and it is just dumb and needs adjustment even if it is just turning the water heater to gain access to the working area.

brian schmitt
03-12-2009, 11:48 AM
ted,
the uniform plumbing code section 509.4.4 on appliances in attics states " a level working platform not less than 30 inches by 30 inches shall be provided in front of the service side of the appliance(nfpa 54:9.5.3). i don't think jp thinks this matters because it is not part of the ircdom!:D i don't feel the duct allows sufficient clearanance.

Jerry Peck
03-12-2009, 12:13 PM
ted,
the uniform plumbing code section 509.4.4 on appliances in attics states " a level working platform not less than 30 inches by 30 inches shall be provided in front of the service side of the appliance(nfpa 54:9.5.3). i don't think jp thinks this matters because it is not part of the ircdom!:D i don't feel the duct allows sufficient clearanance.



i don't think jp thinks this matters because it is not part of the ircdom!:D

Oh, JP KNOWS it matters ... in CALIFORNIA ... but Rick is in TEXAS, which is IRCdom. :D

Do I think the photo shows "adequate" space for servicing? Guess you did not READ my post, did you? (underlining and red text are added)

No "provide access" dimension given, but that photo sure looks like it does not "provide access for" those listed actions.

Sheesh, I don't mind getting kicked when *I* screw up, but when *YOU* can't read? :D

Next question: Do I think that 30" is sufficient and adequate clearance for water heaters ... *ALL* water heaters?

Not only do I think it is insufficient working space, but I KNOW it is insufficient working space? Why, because I asked about *ALL* water heaters and that includes "electric" water heaters, and "electric" water heaters REQUIRE 36" by 30" working space. :p

Rick Hurst
03-12-2009, 01:14 PM
Jerry,

I had to make a second trip back to the house today so I checked out the drain line connection at the drain pan. You were correct. It was loose as a goose. If that pan had any sigificant water it would have leaked at that loose connection.

Thanks again,
Rick

brian schmitt
03-12-2009, 01:35 PM
jp,
thanks for the clarification. the uniform mechanical code(section 305) states almost the same requirement verbaitum. yes, i know it is na in ircdom but it can be used to present a case.thanks again.

Ted Menelly
03-12-2009, 02:15 PM
Jerry,

I had to make a second trip back to the house today so I checked out the drain line connection at the drain pan. You were correct. It was loose as a goose. If that pan had any sigificant water it would have leaked at that loose connection.

Thanks again,
Rick


And you would have been in big twubble

Rick Hurst
03-12-2009, 02:34 PM
Ted,

Probably not. See when the plumber had to move the water heater away from the return duct he would have to relocate that pan also which would necessitate disconnecting the drain line from the pan and then re-securing them.;)

rick

Ted Menelly
03-12-2009, 02:38 PM
Ted,

Probably not. See when the plumber had to move the water heater away from the return duct he would have to relocate that pan also which would necessitate disconnecting the drain line from the pan and then re-securing them.;)

rick


Ah yes. The old Plumber did it. Actually he did in the beginning.

H.G. Watson, Sr.
03-12-2009, 05:56 PM
Did you get the code on the control? Two or three batches of them are on recall (silent).

Doesn't the manufacturer reference the National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54) regarding required clearances, etc. for installation? I believe that was a valid reference.

Most have several labels on them that reference installation and clearance warnings for operation. Covering those instructions and cautions would be of issue - part of accessibility is the ability to get to and read those labels.

Realistic Servicing clearance would be the "man zone" plus the diameter of the cover plus about 2-6 inches to remove the burner and run a cleaning brush. Air path for combustion air and volume also outlined in NFPA 54.

I do not believe a sediment or drip leg on the black pipe is required at the water heater if that was the highest point of the gas supply, since this is an attic install that may well be the case (in other words, likely not required but would be required below where the riser is).

Jim Luttrall
03-12-2009, 06:04 PM
I believe the sediment trap is required after the service valve and as close as practical to the equipment.

G2419.4 Sediment trap. Where a sediment trap is not incorporated as part of the gas utilization equipment, a sediment trap shall be installed downstream of the equipment shutoff valve as close to the inlet of the equipment as practical.

Jerry Peck
03-12-2009, 08:09 PM
I do not believe a sediment or drip leg


Correct on the drip leg as it would serve not purpose up there, but the sediment trap is required.