Hardi-board Mottled Paint

[Jeff Fodi]

I'm dealing with a situation where the acrylic stain applied to Hardi-board on a 7 year old home is mottled (the original color was yellowish and a greenish color is appearing in mottled fashion across the entire surface). The siding hardi-board was primed and factory finished with one coat and a subsequent coat was applied during installation. Cabot stain was used both for the factory application and the touch up (the homeowner still has the original paint cans).

The homeowner is asking what might have caused this and wants to know if just applying another coat on top of the existing stain would resolve the situation.

The attached pictures from the homeowner show the original finish and some progression of the deterioration. P1080035.jpg is the most recent photo.

[Jim Luttrall]

I can't make out much in you photos, but from what I remember, Hardie says not to apply stain to their product. I would go to their instructions for info. Beyond that, I don't do cosmetics and I would not comment on the paint job.

[Jerry Peck]

I would call Cabot stain and have them send out a factory representative to take some samples of both the good and the bad areas, reporting back what their chemical analysis finds.

From there you should have a direction to go.

Being as yellow and blue make green ... and it was originally yellowISH and in now greenISH in some areas ... I'm thinking it is something in the stain some blueISH tinting may have chemically separated from the bonding with other particles leading to the greenish coloring. Just a wild guess on my part as I am not a chemical engineer and know nothing (very little) about that stuff.

[Jerry Peck]

Jim,

I'm taking it as the first finish coat was applied at the factory (Hardie or which ever company made it).


The siding hardi-board was primed and factory finished with one coat and a subsequent coat was applied during installation.


but from what I remember, Hardie says not to apply stain to their product.


At least that was my take on it.

[Jim Luttrall]

Q. Do I have to paint HardiePlank® siding?

A: Yes, HardiePlank® lap siding must be painted or you may order many James Hardie® products with ColorPlus® Technology (http://www.jameshardiecolorplus.com/). If painting, 100% acrylic topcoats are recommended. Do not paint when wet. For specific recommendations, please refer to JH Technical Bulletin No. S-100 or refer to paint manufacturers specifications. Back rolling is recommended if the siding is sprayed. Within 180 days for primed product and 90 days for unprimed. DO NOT use stain or oil/alkyd base paints on James Hardie® products.




And, James Hardie backs its ColorPlus technology finish with a 15-year warranty that covers both paint and labor.2



Both the siding and the paint manufacturer would be the place to go for answers. It seems though that the original installation was screwed up with the wrong material, but you won't know that until you ask or even get them out to look at it.

I would doubt that applying more of the same would be the correct solution.
I have heard this "Definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

[Jerry Peck]

And, to go along with what Jim posted:

From the James Hardie HardiePlank installation instructions:


PAINTING JAMES HARDIE® SIDING AND TRIM PRODUCTS WITH COLORPLUS® TECHNOLOGY

When repainting ColorPlus products, James Hardie recommends the following regarding surface preparation and topcoat application:
• Ensure the surface is clean, dry, and free of any dust, dirt, or mildew
• Repriming is normally not necessary
• 100% acrylic topcoats are recommended
• DO NOT use stain or oil/alkyd base paints on James Hardie® products
• Apply finish coat in accordance with paint manufacturers written instructions regarding coverage, application methods, and application temperature

That said, though, *IF* the factory applied the finish, then the finish would be an 'approved finish'.

Also, that is addressing "ColorPlus" products.

For non-ColorPlus James Hardie HardiePlank products the requirements are similar:

PAINTING

DO NOT use stain on James Hardie® products.
James Hardie products must be painted within 180
days for primed product and 90 days for unprimed.
100% acrylic topcoats are recommended.
Do not paint when wet. For application rates refer to
paint manufacturers specifications.
Back-rolling is recommended if the siding is sprayed.

[A.D. Miller]

And, to go along with what Jim posted:

From the James Hardie HardiePlank installation instructions:


PAINTING JAMES HARDIE® SIDING AND TRIM PRODUCTS WITH COLORPLUS® TECHNOLOGY
When repainting ColorPlus products, James Hardie recommends the following regarding surface preparation and topcoat application:
• Ensure the surface is clean, dry, and free of any dust, dirt, or mildew
• Repriming is normally not necessary
• 100% acrylic topcoats are recommended
• DO NOT use stain or oil/alkyd base paints on James Hardie® products
• Apply finish coat in accordance with paint manufacturers written instructions regarding coverage, application methods, and application temperature

That said, though, *IF* the factory applied the finish, then the finish would be an 'approved finish'.

Also, that is addressing "ColorPlus" products.

For non-ColorPlus James Hardie HardiePlank products the requirements are similar:

PAINTING

DO NOT use stain on James Hardie® products.
James Hardie products must be painted within 180
days for primed product and 90 days for unprimed.
100% acrylic topcoats are recommended.
Do not paint when wet. For application rates refer to
paint manufacturers specifications.
Back-rolling is recommended if the siding is sprayed.

JP: Please refer to:

James Hardie Building Products - 1-888-JHARDIE - Paint Mfrs. Spec Sheet (http://www.holdenhumphrey.com/jh/paintspecs.htm)

SAMUEL CABOT INC.
100 Hale Street
Newburyport, MA, 01950
(800) US-STAIN
PrimePlus Field: 1-2 coats of, The Finish w/ Teflon Surface Protector, or O.V.T. Solid Color Acrylic Stain.:D
Factory: 1-2 coats of Factory Finish, or C3 Cement Coat.

[Jerry Peck]

I'm taking it as the first finish coat was applied at the factory (Hardie or which ever company made it).


That said, though, *IF* the factory applied the finish, then the finish would be an 'approved finish'.


JP: Please refer to:

James Hardie Building Products - 1-888-JHARDIE - Paint Mfrs. Spec Sheet (http://www.holdenhumphrey.com/jh/paintspecs.htm)

SAMUEL CABOT INC.
100 Hale Street
Newburyport, MA, 01950
(800) US-STAIN
PrimePlus Field: 1-2 coats of, The Finish w/ Teflon Surface Protector, or O.V.T. Solid Color Acrylic Stain.:D
Factory: 1-2 coats of Factory Finish, or C3 Cement Coat.

Aaron,

As I said :D "then the finish would be an 'approved finish'." :)

[Jeff Fodi]

The quick, detailed reply is greatly appreciated.

The link to Jame Hardie's recommended paints proved helpful and showed the stain listed:

SAMUEL CABOT INC.
100 Hale Street
Newburyport, MA, 01950
(800) US-STAIN
PrimePlus Field: 1-2 coats of, The Finish w/ Teflon Surface Protector, or O.V.T. Solid Color Acrylic Stain.
Factory: 1-2 coats of Factory Finish, or C3 Cement Coat.
I've reached out to Cabot, who's been very responsive and sent some additional photos (also included here). These are close-ups of just below the center window located above the wall separating the garage doors.

Will be interested to see what they come back with.

[A.D. Miller]

The quick, detailed reply is greatly appreciated.

The link to Jame Hardie's recommended paints proved helpful and showed the stain listed:

SAMUEL CABOT INC.
100 Hale Street
Newburyport, MA, 01950
(800) US-STAIN
PrimePlus Field: 1-2 coats of, The Finish w/ Teflon Surface Protector, or O.V.T. Solid Color Acrylic Stain.
Factory: 1-2 coats of Factory Finish, or C3 Cement Coat.
I've reached out to Cabot, who's been very responsive and sent some additional photos (also included here). These are close-ups of just below the center window located above the wall separating the garage doors.

Will be interested to see what they come back with.

Jeff: Cabot is a good company that makes an excellent product. I have used their stains for 20 years with no problems and have found their responsiveness to questions professional.

[Ted Menelly]

I tried stain on hardi plank in the past and never had good results.

Another thing with stains is the air temp and humidity. Cooler temps with higher humidity I always had bad results. I think hardi should have stuck with their "don't use stain"

A little edit here

Did you notice the caulked butt joints under the window pic?

Another little edit here

I don't like the mass use of spray painting everything. You just do not get the same coverage with spray because you have to be careful of runs. A brush just does a much better coating of any material.

[A.D. Miller]

I tried stain on hardi plank in the past and never had good results.

Another thing with stains is the air temp and humidity. Cooler temps with higher humidity I always had bad results. I think hardi should have stuck with their "don't use stain"

A little edit here

Did you notice the caulked butt joints under the window pic?

Another little edit here

I don't like the mass use of spray painting everything. You just do not get the same coverage with spray because you have to be careful of runs. A brush just does a much better coating of any material.

Ted: Agreed. Hardie states that sprayed material must be back rolled, but Juan and Jose interpret that as a tortilla technique, so it never gets done.
Brushes and rollers are for real painters. Airless sprayers are for splatterers, or splatadores.

[Ted Menelly]

Ted: Agreed. Hardie states that sprayed material must be back rolled, but Juan and Jose interpret that as a tortilla technique, so it never gets done.
Brushes and rollers are for real painters. Airless sprayers are for splatterers, or splatadores.


Now that is good. I will remember that quote