I love asking the client this question

[John Arnold]

Did you know there was a fire?

[wayne soper]

Me too, but I usually ask " did the seller disclose that there was a past fire in the home"? Either that or " did you ever smell teen spirit"

[Michael Thomas]

"Did anyone mention when the fire occurred?" is my usual question.

[Mike Schulz]

I like "Did you get this home at a fire sale" :D

[PacificInspect]

The motto is NOT: "What you don't know can't hurt you".
:D

Look at the bright side, termites wont chew into charred wood!

[Jerry Peck]

The motto is NOT: "What you don't know can't hurt you".
:D

Look at the bright side, termites wont chew into charred wood!

Hey, PacificInspect ... we use our real names here so we can get to know each other.

Please click on the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page and ask Brian to reset your user name to your real name. Makes it better for all to use our real names.

[Rick Sabatino]

I like it more when the seller tries to paint fire and/or water damage. That gets the client talking. Usually to their attorney.

[brian schmitt]

rick,
painting fire damaged wood with kilz or equal that is still structurally sound is an accepted practice for eliminating the barbeque smell.

[Randy Aldering]

It's even more interesting when, after finding out there had been a fire, my client asks the seller about the history of the fire damage, and the seller doesn't know any thing about it. And then they say some thing like "and we had it inspected, too!" The chop-licking attorneys can be heard lining up at the door, ready to take names and file papers. About that time, I find myself thinking about how nice it would be to be at the beach.

[Jerry Peck]

I like it more when the seller tries to paint fire and/or water damage. That gets the client talking. Usually to their attorney.


rick,
painting fire damaged wood with kilz or equal that is still structurally sound is an accepted practice for eliminating the barbeque smell.

I believe Rick was referencing 'when not on the seller disclosure' ... the clients are then looking up their attorney's speed dial number ...

[brian schmitt]

ohhhh i understand now jerry:rolleyes: i didn't think anyone would ever try to cover up anything like that. that's downright unethical !what's this world coming to?:D

[Jerry Peck]

what's this world coming to?:D


An end. :eek:

Friday, the 13th. :)

Just which "Friday, the 13th" I have not figured out yet. My complex future time calculator suffered a full system failure and will not reboot. :D

[JB Thompson]

my world ended on Friday, June 13, 1986. I got married

Wait, honey, that was a joke... I didn't know you were looking over my shoulder....:o

[Jerry Peck]

my world ended on Friday, June 13, 1986. I got married


Nah, you only think so, the real end is when you get divorced!

That's where you give all the money you have to some stranger (your attorney) so that you get to keep what is left (nothing). :)

Then you get to fight with your ex for years and years and years :( until the kids are grown and they have kids :eek: , because she won't give up on anything. :rolleyes: And that is for an 'good' divorce. :D

[Tom Edwards]

rick,
painting fire damaged wood with kilz or equal that is still structurally sound is an accepted practice for eliminating the barbeque smell.
If the wood surface is "checked" it is no longer structurally sound, assuming the member is a 2x. By the time this type damage has occurred the structural integrity of the fibers is substantially degraded. All "checked" wood should be replaced. All "merely smoked" wood may be painted with a sealer to prevent ongoing smoke odor in the dwelling.

[Jerry Peck]

All "merely smoked" wood may be painted with a sealer to prevent ongoing smoke odor in the dwelling.


"Merely smoked" wood may have been overheated such that it has been affected structurally it within the heat of the fire.

[Derek Lewis]

Greetings All,

When I was still wearing a tool belt, my company would do an occasional insurance job.
One particular house had a fire in the kitchen that reached into the attic (no fire stops).
I observed charred rafters that looked like blackened alligator skin about 1/8" thick . The local building inspector poked it with her screw driver it sounded solid underneath the charred wood and said we did not need to replace/reinforce the rafters.

We also sprayed the entire attic area with a stain kill product per the insurance company to contain the smell of burnt wood.

[Jerry Peck]

Wood Thermal Degradation ( http://files.engineering.com/download.aspx?folder=42d1f979-39b0-4e96-8ead-cdcfe6fc6b3b&file=Wood_Thermal_degradation.pdf )

When reading the above, note the following temperatures:
- 65 degrees C = 149 degrees F
- 100 degrees C = 212 degrees F
- 200 degrees C = 394 degrees F
- 225 degrees C = 437 degrees F
- 300 degrees C = 572 degrees F
- 370 degrees C = 698 degrees F
- 450 degrees C = 842 degrees F

I picked this up from another source ( http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplr/fplr2202.pdf ) Second to last paragraph on page 4: The charring rate for wood is 1/30 to 1/50 inch per minute or about 1-1/2 inches per hour. As heat penetrates slowly ahead of the char, the temperature 1/4 inch ahead of the charring is only about 360 degrees F.

Note that in the first information 360 degrees F falls between 100 degrees C and 200 degrees C and falls into:

- 1.1 Temperature Regimes of Wood Mass Loss
- - Thermal degradation above 100°C can be broken up into four temperature regimes:
- - - (i) Between 100°C and 200°C, wood becomes dehydrated and generates water vapor and other noncombustible gases and liquids including CO2, formic acid, acetic acid, and H2O. With prolonged exposures at higher temperatures, wood can become charred. Exothermic oxidation reactions can occur because ambient air can diffuse into and react with the developing porous char residue.

Thus, there is wood degradation at temperatures lower than the charring point and 1/4 inch deeper than the charring depth. As to what level and amount of degradation of the structural rating and ability of that wood is - well, that is WAY beyond me and my knowledge, but suffice it to say that there is degradation.

How much degradation and how it affects the structural integrity of the member is up to an engineer with more smarts than me to figure out.

[brian schmitt]

Greetings All,

When I was still wearing a tool belt, my company would do an occasional insurance job.
One particular house had a fire in the kitchen that reached into the attic (no fire stops).
I observed charred rafters that looked like blackened alligator skin about 1/8" thick . The local building inspector poked it with her screw driver it sounded solid underneath the charred wood and said we did not need to replace/reinforce the rafters.

We also sprayed the entire attic area with a stain kill product per the insurance company to contain the smell of burnt wood.
derek,
my father was a contractor who did mainly insurance repair work in the san francisco bay area and ditto to your statement. the insurance companies and the inspection departments would approve the 1/8" charring. jerry has a valid point about having an engineer evaluate the lumbers' structural integrity when in doubt. if trusses are present i always require an engineer's approval!

[Mike Truss Guy]

Me too, but I usually ask " did the seller disclose that there was a past fire in the home"? Either that or " did you ever smell teen spirit"


"Did anyone mention when the fire occurred?" is my usual question.


I like "Did you get this home at a fire sale" :D

Do you remember any especially warm weather since you have lived here?

[Caoimhín P. Connell]

Oh, DUDE!

You mean, that's NOT toxic black mould?

I'm in trouble...

CaoimhÃ*n

[Mike Schulz]

"Oh, DUDE!" He said Dude.......
What have we done to this Forensic "Dude":eek:

[Mike Truss Guy]

Oh, DUDE!

You mean, that's NOT toxic black mould?

I'm in trouble...

Caoimhín

I wish I could claim all my memory loss on mold.


...and not just that I'm getting old. :p

[Robert Mattison]

Now you know where the kids go when they play with matches.


Must had happen a long time ago, is you didn't smell that smell.


Great picture,. again, the true meaning as to why picture is worth a
thousand word.:cool: