Obama Turning the Tide

[A.D. Miller]

Less than 6 months in the office and Barack is digging us out of the Bush Hole.

Total US jobless rolls drop sharply to nearly 6.7M - Builder Magazine (http://www.builderonline.com/null/total-us-jobless-rolls-drop-sharply-to-nearly-67m.aspx)

Republicans take your besst shot.:D

[Ted Menelly]

Less than 6 months in the office and Barack is digging us out of the Bush Hole.

Total US jobless rolls drop sharply to nearly 6.7M - Builder Magazine (http://www.builderonline.com/null/total-us-jobless-rolls-drop-sharply-to-nearly-67m.aspx)

Republicans take your besst shot.:D


Mon Sewer


You really have to quit with all that malarkey. "The Bush hole" was certainly not the Bush hole but a hole dug by Republicans, Democrats and the rest of the human populous.

Now before you get off on the Sibal side. I am neither a Dem or Repub which makes me a little less Sibal than you.

It was not a republican hole. It is the entire world, in case you never took notice, including me, you, Jerry Peck and even Bill Stevens that dug this hole.

Now you before you say "not me" well, did you by that expensive gas, make any purchases of goods made in China. Drink that extra Margarita?

Yes, you me and everyone else. Make any investments???????

With the dems having majority for years they did not seem to do anything about it. Of course not, they were getting fat as well.

[Rick Cantrell]

" WASHINGTON - The total number of people on the unemployment insurance rolls dropped for the first time since early January, the government said Thursday, while new claims for benefits rose slightly. "

The "Unemployment Rate" is not how many people are unemployed, but rather, how many people are receiving unemployment pay from the government. Big difference there.
The unemployment rate does not include the people whose unemployment payments have run out, and are still out of work. It does not include the people that are not eligible to receive unemployment payments, self employed people (like us), people that don't have "regular" jobs (day workers). Of course it does not include the 100s of thousands ( my number) of underemployed people. Again, people a lot like us, that do not make near as much as we did 2-3 years ago.

I think it's great that you support President Obama.
But as for your view of Bush, with all respect, keep it to yourself, or go to a forum better suited for that type of discussion.
Discuss current political events in this forum, yes sometimes.
But to hate all things Bush. What for, and what will change?
Bush has left the building.
Get it, get over it, and get on with it.

[Ted Menelly]

How about this


Taxing health benefits...........Really....................It is income. They should have been taixing it all along.

Now the unions are saying "Don't tax our pay....I mean health benefits."

Thousands a year in pay...I mean health benefits and never taxed ? After all, you can write off on what you pay out to medical.

What say you Mr Aaron???????????

Edit

Lets keep going with this

No one wants to pay a tax or what ever sourse mught be chosen to pay for others to retire or SS or medical.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Who do they think are paying for their retirement, benefits, sick days etc etc etc. Anyone who purchases goods or services from any company that pays these benefits to their employees are already paying for their retirement, sick days, vacation days etc etc etc.

So....They do not want to pay taxes on their benefits or pay for anyone elses benefits but they want everyone else to pay for theirs. Hmmmm............what a serious weird train of thought. Have the public pay for all their benefits but they want to pay into no one elses benefits.

I think everyone in the US should be paying for a comfortable retirement and benefits for me!!!!!!
I like the sound of that. How about you. Would you not like the worlds populas to pay for a nice retirement for you but you not pay for them.

What say you.

Of course this is all in jest but something to think about.

Matter as fact I want 100,000.00 of spendable cash to live on for the next ten years and then I still want someone else to pay for a retirement of at least 50,000 a year plus medical coverage.

What say you???????

[Scott Patterson]

A few thoughts:

I just would like to know how his lordship plans on paying for everything he is doing!

I think it was pointed out that one reason unemployment numbers are down is that many have used all of their unemployment up and they are now off the list. If you don't collect unemployment then you are not included in the numbers.

At what point will our current political leadership and others realize that they need to take ownership and stop passing the blame to those who are no longer around.

Why do we tolerate folks like Barbara Boxer? The General said Yes Ma'am (this is how the military refers to others in formal settings) and he was called on the rug and told to call her Senator.

Why have we not heard anything about the Inspector General that was fired for questioning how money was being spent. Ahh, I think this is his job!

When will the media honeymoon be over for Obama? Camelot is looking more like Disneyland.

Will you be willing to pay a 40% tax on your income to support the health care program (Obamacare) that is being looked at? Or would you be willing to pay a 10% VAT tax on everything you purchase?

And yes I'm a conservative Independent.

[ken horak]

What we really need is a FLAT TAX !
Would be the best and most fair to everyone. Everyone pays the same tax rate.
If the US would go to the flat tax at a rate of 20% of their earnings ( pay ,investment dividends,interest payments etc) the government would have more then enough money to operate and have a social security system for the retired.
But the few that make the laws (or influence those who do) will never let this happen as they are the ones who have the tax shelters and own business's that pay less tax then I do.
The US is in serious trouble and it's not getting any better in the real world , just on paper.

[Billy Stephens]

Mon Sewer.
.
Yeah Mr. Sewer, :D
*sorry Ted too easy of a Target.
.
SEWER Meaning and Definition - Dictionary - eLook.org (http://www.elook.org/dictionary/sewer.html)
.

[Ron Bibler]

If Uncle Sam needs more money he just make 2 calls. one to us saying make a deposit please:D. and another to the mint please print me some more money please....

Better go make your deposit...

Or may-be you should set up a payment plan...:eek: that way you just don't see it going away:D

Its going to be a long time before you see any of your cash again...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

A few thoughts:

I just would like to know how his lordship plans on paying for everything he is doing!

Why, the very same way King W was paying for that very expensive war and rebuilding effort.

How else do you think? And why do you think this is different than that?

Sometimes I am just stunned by otherwise smart conservatives who cannot see the blanket pulled over their head by their King, but then decry anything and everything done or attempted by another. :rolleyes:

[Ron Bibler]

but then decry anything and everything done or attempted by another. :rolleyes:


Jerry have you set up your Tax payment plan yet ? :D

Happy days are hear %**^ (%( (% (*&_(e again :eek:

The tax man commeth...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry have you set up your Tax payment plan yet ? :D

Happy days are hear %**^ (%( (% (*&_(e again :eek:

The tax man commeth...

Best

Ron

Ron,

Yes I did, I had to under your King W.

The tax man already cameth ...

:rolleyes:

[Ron Bibler]

I will give this to Obama... he has let to Bush Tax cut stand...FOR NOW... and because of this my New $ 13K IR Camera is a wash as a 100% wright off:D

What do you think that will do to Aaron's taxes... L.O.L. Pay up Aaron...

thank you Aaron.... L.O.L.


Best

Ron

[Reggie Russell]

I really wanted to comment on this, even though this is not a political forum, but Scott said it so well that all I can do is echo his sentiment! :cool:

[mathew stouffer]

Amen Scott, Amen. My camera was a pretty sweet right off as well. Plus the truck, oh yes the truck.

[Jerry Peck]

When will the media honeymoon be over for Obama? Camelot is looking more like Disneyland.

That's because it is being brought back from the brink of looking like Iraq.


the health care program (Obamacare)

With the other choice being BushIgotmineYou?Idon'tcare lackofhealthcare plan.


And yes I'm a conservative Independent.

And yes, I am a middle of the road Independent who got fed up with King W and his King's Court.

The best thing I can say to all you conservatives is to give it the same 8 years King W got, and you will see that Camelot has returned.

Right now, I'll chose Disneyland over The Grinch Who Stole Christmas ... And Never Wised Up To Understand ANY Consequences To His Actions

'Cause he wanted to play army, and as President of the United States, HE COULD "play army".

[Ron Bibler]

Jerry you known better then that. G.W. Was not a conservative. he was so far to the left most conservative were sick of him and the way he went along with the Lift... spend spend spend. and now we have a nother spend freak in the White house.

But you support this spend freak... Why i don't know? Bush is gone lets look at the new guy and live in the hear and now.

Spend Spend Spend...

Best

Ron

[Ted Menelly]

.
Yeah Mr. Sewer,[/b] :D
*sorry Ted too easy of a Target.
.
SEWER Meaning and Definition - Dictionary - eLook.org (http://www.elook.org/dictionary/sewer.html)
.


Yes Mr Willie

That was a dig to get Aaron going. I try that now and then but he knows what I am doing and does not bite. I knew he was dropping his little political thing and then sat back and laughed. He knew it would get the juices going.

[John Dirks Jr]

I got one word for you. Skeptical. No, two words. Very skeptical.

I'm willing to wait it out but I think the love affair is clouding the waters, not to mention that some are just flat out closing their eyes.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry you known better then that. G.W. Was not a conservative. he was so far to the left most conservative were sick of him and the way he went along with the Lift... spend spend spend. and now we have a nother spend freak in the White house.

But you support this spend freak... Why i don't know? Bush is gone lets look at the new guy and live in the hear and now.

Spend Spend Spend...

Best

Ron

Ron,

You will never understand, you are too committed to your stance to think about other options.

[Ron Bibler]

I understand that if i run up my city bank card to the max im going to get a biil i can't pay:eek:

Obama is running up our city bank card and we do not have the money to pay that bill.

Dang man...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

I understand that if i run up my city bank card to the max im going to get a biil i can't pay:eek:

Obama is running up our city bank card and we do not have the money to pay that bill.

Dang man...

Best

Ron

You just will not get it, it seems.

Like talking to a tree, and I am not one to waste my time talking to trees.

[Michael Larson]

Why, the very same way King W was paying for that very expensive war and rebuilding effort.

How else do you think? And why do you think this is different than that?

Sometimes I am just stunned by otherwise smart conservatives who cannot see the blanket pulled over their head by their King, but then decry anything and everything done or attempted by another. :rolleyes:I'm sure you're right Jerry. Nothing to worry about here.:eek:
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/03/21/GR2009032100104.gif

SOURCE: CBO, White House Office of Management and Budget | The Washington Post - March 21, 2009

[Ron Bibler]

I'm sure you're right Jerry. Nothing to worry about here.:eek:
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/03/21/GR2009032100104.gif

SOURCE: CBO, White House Office of Management and Budget | The Washington Post - March 21, 2009


Excellent Michael... :D

Best

Ron

[Matt Vozzella]

..IR Camera is a wash as a 100% wright off


My camera was a pretty sweet right off as well.


http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb315/geekyMary/LJ%20Icons/facepalm2-1.png



For what it's worth, I'm registered Rep. but couldn't stand GW and most of his administration with the exception of Powell.
Hope for the best............prepare for the worst.


write - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/write)

[Scott Patterson]

A few more observations:

Did it not bother anyone when the President of France told Obama that he was trying to provide and do to much and that he needed to slow down? France the most socialized country in the World was saying Obama was doing to much!

Why is China starting to cash in their US dollars for gold?

Why have mortgage interest rates started to rise?

Did it not bother you when Obama apologized to his middle east audience last week for the US reaction to 9/11?

[Matt Vozzella]

Did it not bother you when Obama apologized to his middle east audience last week for the US reaction to 9/11?

Source? If you were referring to the speech in Cairo I scanned the text and only came across this:



And finally, just as America can never tolerate violence by extremists, we must never alter our principles. 9/11 was an enormous trauma to our country. The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable, but in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our ideals. We are taking concrete actions to change course. I have unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States

That doesn't sound like an apology.

[A.D. Miller]

JP and the Few Others on this Board with Common Sense:

I only posted this so that the Refublicans would have a place to vent and play. It was simply a way to prevent so much of their neo-con blather on other threads.

Please not that the original article posted was from the NAHB. A more died in the wool conservative group cannot be found. If the builders are backing the administration that shines a very strong light on those who are not. It means that the detractors are the Neanderthals they appear to be.

Didn't I just read an article about how the Homo Sapiens eliminated the competing Neanderthals?

I'll take mine medium rare, please.:D

[A.D. Miller]

And, by the way, the guy pictured below already has the title of "Most Conservative Man of the Year". Rush, Newt, and other wanabees move over.:)

Though you may think your god's weenie is bigger than his god's, you are all in the same sick boat.:D

[Michael Larson]

JP and the Few Others on this Board with Common Sense:Here is wishing both of you can find some:confused:

I guess facts and figures are meaningless compared to the emotion of GWB hatred.

[Scott Patterson]

Source? If you were referring to the speech in Cairo I scanned the text and only came across this:

And finally, just as America can never tolerate violence by extremists, we must never alter our principles. 9/11 was an enormous trauma to our country. The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable, but in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our ideals. We are taking concrete actions to change course. I have unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States


That doesn't sound like an apology.

The section I highlighted does not sound like a US President that I would want defending my country. It sounds like a politician trying to get everyone to like him.

[A.D. Miller]

The section I highlighted does not sound like a US President that I would want defending my country. It sounds like a politician trying to get everyone to like him.


SP: And, with the glib PC diplomacy that you ooze, is that not exactly what you do as well? Is that not what makes a politician a politician?:D

[Ron Bibler]

Aaron and Jerry From what i can see you have no understanding what a conservative is or what we want as true conservatives. if you under stood this you would not alway point to GWB as a conservative.


A true conservative is me or you on our own doing what we want when we want to do it. True individualism...:D pay your own way.


A true Liberal wants to tell me i can't do what i want when i want
to do it.:eek: but they will will turn and do what they want at our expense.

And you say I'm an oak?

Best

Ron

[A.D. Miller]

Aaron and Jerry From what i can see you have no understanding what a conservative is or what we want as true conservatives. if you under stood this you would not alway point to GWB as a conservative.


A true conservative is me or you on our own doing what we want when we want to do it. True individualism...:D pay your own way.


A true Liberal wants to tell me i can't do what i want when i want
to do it.:eek: but they will will turn and do what they want at our expense.

And you say I'm an oak?

Best

Ron

RB:

According to Webster's a conservative is one who adheres to the philosophy of conservatism. Conservatism is a disposition in politics to preserve what is established.

These are not my definitions, but Webster's, meaning that they are accepted by the majority of English speakers in this nation.

So then, if we are agreed on terminology, let's take a brief look at what that means. To conserve what is established is to eschew change. The only thing in this life that you can be assured of is change. Therefore, conservatism is counterintuitive. It is a ridiculous stance that is only taken by those who exercise the necessary amount of a combination of both hubris and ignorance that leads them to believe that stopping change is an option.

It is not.

[Ron Bibler]

RB:

According to Webster's a conservative is one who adheres to the philosophy of conservatism. Conservatism is a disposition in politics to preserve what is established.

These are not my definitions, but Webster's, meaning that they are accepted by the majority of English speakers in this nation.

So then, if we are agreed on terminology, let's take a brief look at what that means. To conserve what is established is to eschew change. The only thing in this life that you can be assured of is change. Therefore, conservatism is counterintuitive. It is a ridiculous stance that is only taken by those who exercise the necessary amount of a combination of both hubris and ignorance that leads them to believe that stopping change is an option.

It is not.

You just provied my point :D You want to control others and what they say and what they do.

Thank you very much but i will do as i dang well please...

Go your own way and control you own life...

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

According to Webster's a conservative is one who adheres to the philosophy of conservatism. Conservatism is a disposition in politics to preserve what is established.

These are not my definitions, but Webster's, meaning that they are accepted by the majority of English speakers in this nation.Gee, I thought modern day conservatives. stood for small government, strong defense, maximum freedom, minimum government intrusion, low taxes, LEGAL immigration, adherence to the Constitution.....etc.

Boy, I'm sure glad you straightened me out.;)

[A.D. Miller]

Gee, I thought modern day conservatives. stood for small government, strong defense, maximum freedom, minimum government intrusion, low taxes, LEGAL immigration, adherence to the Constitution.....etc.

Boy, I'm sure glad you straightened me out.;)

ML: Nothing could straighten you out.

[A.D. Miller]

You just provied my point :D You want to control others and what they say and what they do.

Thank you very much but i will do as i dang well please...

Go your own way and control you own life...

Best

Ron

RB: You sir, are clearly bordering on idiothood.

[Ted Menelly]

RB: You sir, are clearly an idiot.


Man oh man.

I tried to get you to bite yesterday but you must have been waiting for particular bones like Ron and Michael.

I could not get a smirk going on those socialist lips of yours and these guys fired up your barbeque.

I don't know. Whats a man to do.

[A.D. Miller]

Man oh man.

I tried to get you to bite yesterday but you must have been waiting for particular bones like Ron and Michael.

I could not get a smirk going on those socialist lips of yours and these guys fired up your barabeque.

I don't know. Whats a man to do.

TM: Though you are certainly deserving of a shot of your very own, you did, after all, eventually land in Texas. That says something for you that can never be said of these two chumps.;)

[Reggie Russell]

Most people, when they read '1984', were scared. When Barack Obama read it, he started taking notes.

[A.D. Miller]

Most people, when they read '1984', were scared. When Barack Obama read it, he started taking notes.

RR: True, because most people are sheep.

[Michael Larson]

Chump eh?

Texas is too warm for my blood..

I sure notice how quickly weeny liberals(oops is that name calling:p) default to name calling instead of reasoned argument.

So tell us Mr. Miller, just what has Obama accomplished besides not being Bush?

I'm sure there must be something you're quite proud of.:D

[Markus Keller]

Looking for work? Check if your Community is getting NSP funding. Involves Insp work, possibly lots depending on how much mort fraud in your area.

[Michael Larson]

Does discussing politics bother you Markus?

[A.D. Miller]

Texas is too warm for my blood..


ML: Mine too, and yet, here I am.



I sure notice how quickly weeny liberals(oops is that name calling:p) default to name calling instead of reasoned argument.


ML: Slip of the tounge corrected if you noticed.



So tell us Mr. Miller, just what has Obama accomplished besides not being Bush?


ML: That, in and of itself, would be enough for me.

[David Nice]

ML: That, in and of itself, would be enough for me.


It is sad that there are people so intrenched in the climate the media spent 8+ years to destroy public confidence in GWB. Through the better part of his terms, the economy was thriving and growing. Day after day the media worked to convince the public that the economy was bad. Next they took on the Iraq war and hammered away the public until the public got tired of the war and many began to stop supporting it.

Obama spent 2 years as a community organizer strong arming banks and mortgage companies to offer mortgages to unqualified people. Barney Frank and others worked to make it easier to provide these risky loans. Even when Fanny and Freddy were in deep trouble it wasstill full steam ahead, building a disaster waiting to happen.

Even GWB got on the banwagon and spoke at a state of the union message about how everyone who wanted a home should be able to get that part of the American Dream and lent his support to what congress was doing. His biggest mistake was acting like a democrat on domestic issues.

The financial community did what the finacial community does and created profitable fund packages that included risky mortgages. Mind you, not a Democrat on the planet believed that these mortages were "risky", uit apparently it is all the financial community's fault for using them as investments. After all, every good Democrat believe these loans were made to deserving people who would pay the loans back just like qualified people would do.

Even if the financial community did not touch those loans, we were still facing the biggest home forclosure rate (possibly) ever!

As far as I can see, we now have the foxes guarding the hen house, thanks to people like A.D. who have been successfully manipulated by the media and would (and probably did) vote for anyone as long is it was not GWB.

Not exactly the kind of "critical thinking" American voters need.

[Ron Bibler]

Only the ones that have an interest in something will be redirected by there new understand that some one is after what they have... If the Dem's can keep you thinking you will get something for nothing then the masses will fallow in step. If i have understood anything in my 53 years is that people walk in there own understanding and they have moved away from the things this country was founded on... A true conservative looks at the things that are under attack in this country...Only the ones that looks at these things with something to loose will understand this issue.

So if you see Obama as some one that is doing things you say are good ? Then i would say to you you are looking for something for free... and your core thinking is not directed by the things this country was founded on.

Answer this Question and you will understand what say.

Q. At what point would you say you are paying to much in TAXES ?

Is it 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90%

With the amount of spending Obama is has been doing in the last 6 months we are going to be paying taxes on the upper end at some point.

If he had you paying 70% or 80% even Aaron would say OUCH:eek:

Best

Ron

[A.D. Miller]

If he had you paying 70% or 80% even Aaron would say OUCH:eek:

RB: Maybe. That would depend upon what I was getting in return for my investment.:D

[Michael Larson]

RB: Maybe. That would depend upon what I was getting in return for my investment.:DIf you get through the government I can personally guarantee it will cost you more than buying it yourself.:D

[A.D. Miller]

If you get through the government I can personally guarantee it will cost you more than buying it yourself.:D

ML: No argument there. The question is this, can you even procure some things without the aid of government? For one isolated example, how would you proceed in protecting yourself against WMD. I mean the actual things and not those dreamt up by GWB and crew.

[Markus Keller]

ML: No I don't mind talking about politics. I generally avoid it though, especially with conservatives. Conservs have a tendency to hone in on a particular portion of a problem or statement and only discuss or account for that part of the overall situation that reinforces their opinion. Forget the bigger picture. The unwillingness to pull back and view the broader picture and remain ignorant of available facts to make a better long-term decision is rather remarkable.
In politics, as in life, proper decisions are based on a multitude of views and variables.
I'm not a huge Obama supporter. Some of what he is doing is I like, some not so much. The amount of spending is worrisome. However, do you really think GW's successors and cronies would be spending less in the next 8 years? I doubt it. They would be more low key about it.
Conservs love to talk about traditional american values and freedoms. Yet it is their very own politicians who have worked feverishly to curtail those freedoms (Patriot Act, TSA).
We have a President who says torture is NOT Ok. That's traditional american values. Not some jerk-off who wants to mince words about what is or isn't torture.
I saw the beginnings of the mortgage crisis in 03. Didn't understand fully what I was seeing until probably 05. Both sides are to blame. Our culture is to blame. Not everyone should be a homeowner for many reasons. Not everyone should get lots of credit.
When we finally throw off the prehistoric shackles of the US vs. THEM, then maybe we can speak in a more cohesive voice. It is, WE THE PEOPLE. Our country and our people need to seriously alter our life model to prosper in the future. Our current model is not sustainable.
BTW, our best and brightest minds don't run for political office, then know better.

[Ron Bibler]

Markus. you make my point way better then i could. Only when something effect a person will they open there eyes. This is why people will turn on one another. Be it perception by the new media like the War or a Big Tax bill thats coming.

Markus you see that comming... You pointed that out in your post:eek:

Best

Ron

[David Nice]

...Not some jerk-off who wants to mince words...

Completely out of character for BO, but I guess you gotta give the devil his due.

[Michael Larson]

ML: No I don't mind talking about politics. I generally avoid it though, especially with conservatives. Conservs have a tendency to hone in on a particular portion of a problem or statement and only discuss or account for that part of the overall situation that reinforces their opinion. Forget the bigger picture. Funny I find it very difficult to talk with most liberals.

I actually enjoy it when I find one that is a true believers and knows why and can articulate his opinions instead of relying on emotional appeals, straw men and fuzzy logic.

With all the real issues before us you find it necessary to bring up the particular issue "torture" without defining what it is or if the US has even done it.:rolleyes:

It is such a small issue in the big picture as to be laughable.

We are facing very serous challenges as a direct result of Obama's policies and profligate spending and not because of his stance on water boarding.

I'm asking what has Obama done that is changing things for the better?

[Markus Keller]

It isn't worthwhile to get into a tit-for-tat in regards to what Obama has or has not done. That isn't a discussion, it's a set-up for an immature argument. If you can't see/find ANYTHING that the President has done to improve the situation moving forward then no amount of discussion is going to make a difference. You won't change thought because you don't want to.
I find it appalling that you would consider the previous President, having adopted torture as standard operating practice, 'a small issue as to be laughable'. You should be ashamed of yourself. Our founding fathers were greater Men than that. This country was founded in part by people escaping tyranny and torture. It never ceases to amaze me how people can revert to primal behaviour when they allow their ignorance to create fear that overtakes reasonable thought.
Once again a Conserv diverted from the overall picture of torture and honed in on waterboarding to make his point. I never mentioned waterboarding. Last I heard, a few days ago actually. There are probably only 2-3 'verifiable' instances of waterboarding. The request that I should define torture for a guy who uses the lead from clock work orange as his avatar is really pretty funny.
As stated previously, I'm not a huge Obama fan. I like some of what he has done, some of it not so much. It's amazing how people love to blame a guy who's only been in power for 6 months. The short term mentality in this situation is indicative of our society's need for immediate gratification. GW got us here, Obama will likely get us out of it. Regardless of who is in power it is a minimum 2-3 year cycle to get even keel. Then probably another 1-3 to get the party rolling again.
As long as politicians and special interest groups can keep the people divided, short term personal benefit will reign in DC. Unfortunately our politicians, and many Americans, don't have to balls or brains to take on the difficult problems that provide virtually no immediate benefits. It is tackling those issues that will keep America great into the future.

[Ron Bibler]

Dude water boarding is not torture... If some one was after my Grand kids they would understand what torture was real fast. Biker style...

Get over the Pansy stuff...

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

It isn't worthwhile to get into a tit-for-tat in regards to what Obama has or has not done. That isn't a discussion, it's a set-up for an immature argument. If you can't see/find ANYTHING that the President has done to improve the situation moving forward then no amount of discussion is going to make a difference. You won't change thought because you don't want to. Tit for tat may be fun but not helpful to address our very real and systemic problems.

I am willing to give Obama credit for what ever truly positive things he may have accomplished and I am only asking what those may be from others perspectives.
They either exist or they don't.



I find it appalling that you would consider the previous President, having adopted torture as standard operating practice, 'a small issue as to be laughable'. You should be ashamed of yourself. Our founding fathers were greater Men than that. This country was founded in part by people escaping tyranny and torture. It never ceases to amaze me how people can revert to primal behaviour when they allow their ignorance to create fear that overtakes reasonable thought.I find it interesting that you are wiling to call waterboarding "torture". For me, it pales in comparison with the cutting off heads and body parts or doing real permanent damage to one's person. It was carefully thought out and supporting legal opinion and procedure were carefully followed.


Once again a Conserv diverted from the overall picture of torture and honed in on waterboarding to make his point. I never mentioned waterboarding. Last I heard, a few days ago actually. There are probably only 2-3 'verifiable' instances of waterboarding. The request that I should define torture for a guy who uses the lead from clock work orange as his avatar is really pretty funny.If you are not willing to define it, the term becomes nothing more that a play on one's emotions. We all hopefully think real torture is bad and beyond what Americans are willing to or should do. Do you know of other torture that was carried out by Americans?


As stated previously, I'm not a huge Obama fan. I like some of what he has done, some of it not so much. It's amazing how people love to blame a guy who's only been in power for 6 months. The short term mentality in this situation is indicative of our society's need for immediate gratification. GW got us here, Obama will likely get us out of it. Regardless of who is in power it is a minimum 2-3 year cycle to get even keel. Then probably another 1-3 to get the party rolling again.As I see it, Obama is only doing more of the very same that got us into this mess and hoping for a different result. Isn't that the working definition of insanity?
Perhaps I am wrong, please correct me.


As long as politicians and special interest groups can keep the people divided, short term personal benefit will reign in DC. Unfortunately our politicians, and many Americans, don't have to balls or brains to take on the difficult problems that provide virtually no immediate benefits. It is tackling those issues that will keep America great into the future.Should those of us who strongly disagree with Obama's policies just shut up?

How else can we effect real change?

Debate is healthy in a free society. I hope you agree.

[Ted Menelly]

A little off thread here but I will post it anyway

Right after we moved into Iraq, or should I say about 20 days after, we started finding a multitude of mass graves. One they found almost right away was a mass grave of 3200 Shea's or however you spell that sect. They were slaughtered and half were buried alive for defying Sadam in 1991.

The total to date on the mass grave seen is over 300,000 soles that Sadam put in "their place" for defying him.

You want to talk about torture. The people involved in all that slaughter should have been rounded up, tried and if found guilty of involvement, locked up and then tortured at least once a week or until the day of their death in prison.

The folks involved in Africa that were involved in going from village to village hacking entire villages up with machetes just to instill fear on the coming event at the next village should be rounded up, tried, if found guilty, put in prison and tortured once a week for the rest of their lives until their day of death in prison.

The raper of a 8 year old girl, if tried and found guilty with out doubt should be locked up and tortured once a week for the rest of the days until his death in prison.

If hitler was captured he should have been locked up and little tiny pieces of his body should have bean burned off weekly until the day of his death in prison.

Sadam should have been locked up and for his partaking of burying people alive, gassing them, torturing them, slaughtering them should have had the same done to him over and over until the day of his death in prison.

Now before anyone goes spatting that our founding fathers did not have that intention in mind for the American people and all that guff let me say this.

I would not have done or would I expect anyone else to do all that I have just mentioned but it is certainly a wonderful freaking thought for certain soles in this world.

Is water boarding torture....absolutely not, especially when our government laid it all out to the world that we are going to be all smiley and forgiving for all their horendous acts like downing our jets and blowing up New York and killing thouisands.

Hey (who ever) go blow up all those folks with explosives and nails in this package and don't worry about getting caught because all the US can do is give you a spanking. Oh yeah, the spanking won't be that bad because they cannot leave any marks. They cannot even yell at you to loud or to long.

Yes, we are loving caring and giving smiley human beings and should treat everyone with forgiveness and smiles.....no matter what they may do to thousands of other happy, smiley, giving, caring, loving, forgiving human beings.

[Billy Stephens]

Less than 6 months in the office and Barack is digging us out of the Bush Hole.

Total US jobless rolls drop sharply to nearly 6.7M - Builder Magazine (http://www.builderonline.com/null/total-us-jobless-rolls-drop-sharply-to-nearly-67m.aspx)

Republicans take your besst shot.:D
.
WowThe Number of People RECEIVING Unemployment Benefits are down. :rolleyes:
.
BLS: Tennessee mass layoffs jump in May - Memphis Business Journal: (http://memphis.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2009/06/22/daily18.html)

[Markus Keller]

Another God and country loving conservative gets busted cheating on his wife. At least this time it's with a woman. You know how those right wingers feel about equal rights for all.

[Billy Stephens]

.

:D " It All Depends on What Your Definition of Is Is. " :D
.

[George Bronx]

I generally avoid it though, especially with conservatives.

Funny I find it very difficult to talk with most liberals.

The definition of conservative and liberal only depend on who is in power. Even the most vocal liberal becomes a staunch conservative after the revolution.

[Michael Larson]

The definition of conservative and liberal only depend on who is in power. Even the most vocal liberal becomes a staunch conservative after the revolution.Will there be a revolution?

I don't know.

It depends on how many people want their country back from the liberal elite who insist we are too dumb to manage our own lives.


The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
-Thomas Jefferson

[A.D. Miller]

Another God and country loving conservative gets busted cheating on his wife. At least this time it's with a woman. You know how those right wingers feel about equal rights for all.

MK: I just came back to check on the ruckus here and find your words of wisdom tucked neatly here among the water-boarding and blood-letting blather.

You, my friend, have obviously stumbled into the wrong thread. Come back out here with the rational folks.:D

[Michael Larson]

MK: I just came back to check on the ruckus here and find your words of wisdom tucked neatly here among the water-boarding and blood-letting blather.

You, my friend, have obviously stumbled into the wrong thread. Come back out here with the rational folks.:DStill waiting for the Obamites to tell us just what he has gotten right so far.

There must be something.

[Tony Infelise]

Another God and country loving conservative gets busted cheating on his wife. At least this time it's with a woman. You know how those right wingers feel about equal rights for all.


Wow a politician is a sex scandal. That never happens. Top 10 Democrat Sex Scandals in Congress - HUMAN EVENTS (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17357) Heck, the Elliot Spitzer affair didn't even make this list.
By the way, isn't this the guy that embarrassed the current administration and refused to take the stimulus money? And this comes out now.
Coincidence? I'll let others decide.

[Brent Crouse]

Some things Obama has done right so far:

1) Realizing that the unnecessary war in Iraq needs to come to an end, and move forward with a plan to do so.
2) Send more troops to Afghanistan.
3) Agree with it or not, he actually has a plan to turn the economy around.
4) Again, agree with it or not, he has a plan to improve health care. Our health care is currently run by the insurance companies. How many of them have you seen go out of business lately? People will say they don't want the govt between them and their health care, but I'd rather have that than the insurance companies between me and my health care. Every year, insurance premiums go up, coverage goes down, and more claims are denied.

Things he hasn't done so well:

1) He does not seem to be backing single payer health care. I believe this is the way to go. Albeit via taxes, we would be paying for our own health care, which we currently are anyway, except that the insurance companies are making HUGE profits.
2) Not sure why he wants to close Gitmo. Why can't the problems just be resolved there. Sounds like it's going to cost more to close it than to leave it open.

I know there are more items in both categories, but those are just a few off the top of my head.

Like Obama said, if it was easy, it would have been fixed a long time ago. This will take a while, some good things will happen, and some bad things will happen.

[Ted Menelly]

How many billions and billions of dollars did we spend monitoring those fools in Iraq for years and years. Everything the world did to monitor him he always made like he was actually hiding the mass weapon thing and how many countless times di he delay sites to be investigated like he was hiding things and how many times did he say that the Americans would die in a sea of glass (the big bombs that melt glass such as weapons of mass destruction) if we tried to take over their country. Weather it was good info or bad info he lead the world to believe that he was hidingn all kinds of nasty stuff.

As far as spending more billions and billions and billions of dollars monitoring him for all eternity and then when he died and his crazy ass sons to over monitoring them and the even crazier stuff they would have done. Also did you read my post above. Over 300,000 plus, plus, plus people in mass graves from his slaughter and thousands and thousands buried alive.

Could we or can we ever stop those folks from killing each other that have been killing each other for what, 7 or 8,000 years now, probably not. At the least we got the biggest nut case out of there and now even when we leave we can keep an eye on the next nut case and have easy acces back to blow the crap out of them.

Should we be the worlds monitor.......................Who else is there. Even the Russians are helping to supply the Taliban. Yes move are folks out but leave at least a strong influence there to help control the insane things that happen after we leave (mark my words). Move our men back into afganistan and move from one end of the country to the other again (the only way to do it). Leave a seriously heavy handed amount of men along the Pakistan border and move in and out as needed.

As far as health care. There is nothing the governemnt can do to get everyone health care and there is no plan and never will be for that. It would cost biullions and billions a year from yours and everyone elses pocket to do that. Tax medical benefite for those who get most of it paid for.....well......it is income. The only reason it was almost free from employers because there was a ban on pay increases back in the depression to hold cost down to the floundering economy so employers added health benefits in leu of raises. That time is long gone. The unions say don't tax OUR health benefits, they are already giving away to much. They have been over paid and over benefitted for all time and guess who pays for that US you and me when we buy a car. What a freaking joke.

What no one understands or does not understand, there is already someone else already paying for their sick days, holidays and health care alread.....YOU AN ME when we buiy any service or product coming from their company that they work for.

Why is it that everyone wants someone else to pay for their benefite and retirement and health care but they do not want to pay for everyone else.

This can go on and on and on and on. There is no magic pill for any of these items under discussion.

The useless uneeded war in Iraq.....We were already there. Fleets of ships and air craft and truck and tanks etc etc. Tens of thousands of troops and supplies and so on and so on and so on.

Afganistan..........................What.......... ................The Taliban>>>>>>>>>>>what......leave them in control..............You cannot be serious. Both those wars would have happened sooner or later, period. The problem with later would have had them better supplied and more American lives would have been waswted

I cannot believe the ifs , ands, and whats are still being talked about on this thread. I guess it is healthy to have such discussions but the IT WAS A BAD WAR FROM THE BEGINNING AND THERE WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ETC ETC ETC, really is the proverbial beating of the dead horse. It was absolutely innevitable that we would have been in both places anyway, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

The health care thing.....well.....give me free health care but I do not want to pay for anyone else.

Oh yeah. Part of that big health care discussion is to give illegal alliens free medical for all there hard work. Lets see.....Oh yeah....they chose to come here for that hard work because they would have made a fraction of the amount in there own country. Work is gone.........go home now. Don't hang out here so we can pay all their rents and mortgages and free health care and free food stamps.

WEARE ALREADY DOING THAT. IT IS TIME TO STOP. Our car companies and millions of others have no work but we are suppose to pay for them and their families in other coun tries when we cannot pay for our own....Seriously

I am done. I spent to much time in an unconditioned inspection this morning and was alread boiling and boiled some more on here.

Put controls on the big wigs and their multi millions for running companies into the ground and let us have the country back so WE THE PEOPLE can put it back together again. Humpty dumpty even got put back together again. We can do it.

I was for the quick bail out of the first fewq big banks and insurance companies to to keep the avalanche from happening. All the rest were just looking for a paycheck but were going to file anyway.

Every program the Dems have wanted to do for decades is trying to be blasted thru in a huge rush so no one has a say in it. I say bring an amendment or bail out to the table and let the people vote on it.

By the way. Before anyone comes back. I am not a Republican or a Democrat so do not put me in one of those happy boats.

[Michael Larson]

Some things Obama has done right so far:

1) Realizing that the unnecessary war in Iraq needs to come to an end, and move forward with a plan to do so.Too bad he did not support the very reason leaving has become possible. It was called the surge.

2) Send more troops to Afghanistan.Agreed but these plans were already in the pipeline.

3) Agree with it or not, he actually has a plan to turn the economy around.I not only disagree with it but consider it more of the same that hasn't worked in the past and on top of that it has been raised to a dangerous level.

4) Again, agree with it or not, he has a plan to improve health care. Our health care is currently run by the insurance companies. How many of them have you seen go out of business lately? People will say they don't want the govt between them and their health care, but I'd rather have that than the insurance companies between me and my health care. Every year, insurance premiums go up, coverage goes down, and more claims are denied.Insurance premiums continue to rise because of govt. mandates and low medicare reimbursement rates forcing the companies to raise rates so you can subsidize the non payers and under payers with your premium. Obama's lack of support for tort reform also is a contributing factor that raise rates and forces doctors to order test in the hope of avoiding frivolous lawsuits.


Things he hasn't done so well:
1) He does not seem to be backing single payer health care. I believe this is the way to go. Albeit via taxes, we would be paying for our own health care, which we currently are anyway, except that the insurance companies are making HUGE profits.Single payer systems are failing around the world.

2) Not sure why he wants to close Gitmo. Why can't the problems just be resolved there. Sounds like it's going to cost more to close it than to leave it open.He is fulfilling a campaign promise made to his far left supporters.


I know there are more items in both categories, but those are just a few off the top of my head.

Like Obama said, if it was easy, it would have been fixed a long time ago. This will take a while, some good things will happen, and some bad things will happen.Yes the problems we face are not easy.
The politicians are masters at kicking the can down the road for someone else to deal with but eventually someone has to pay the price.

I don't see how any of Obama's plans face this reality as he is borrowing and spending $Trillions that will have to be paid back at interest. The risk is that as soon as those who buy our debt refuse to buy anymore, the game is over.

[Brent Crouse]

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!

[mathew stouffer]

One vote for removal of this thread, it's nonsense.

[Michael Larson]

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!OK class warrior. Who are you to decide how much someone should be paid?

Buyer Beware: The Failure of Single-Payer Health Care (http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/hl702.cfm)

Canadians begin waiting for surgery before getting on the “wait list” (http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_07mar2006_e)

[Ron Bibler]

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!

Why don't you get off your ^*^% and become a CEO.:D

Will smith makes 100M a movie and the guy that brings them lunch makes $20bucks an HR... What an out rages:eek:

This has got to be one of the ^&^^%&^ things i have ever saw on this site...

Sorry bub get a life... (LIFE IS NOT FAIR)

I'm better looking then you deal with it...

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

More evidence that the tide is turning:
NOT

U.S. Economy: Jobless Claims Rise in Sign Labor Market Stagnant (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=anCtVrRFvn1U)

[Brent Crouse]

OK class warrior. Who are you to decide how much someone should be paid?

I really don't have that much problem with someone making that much money, as long as it's not by taking advantage of others. But they should have to pay a reasonable amount of tax.

$20/hr for getting lunch....where do I apply.

[Michael Larson]

I really don't have that much problem with someone making that much money, as long as it's not by taking advantage of others. But they should have to pay a reasonable amount of tax.They do Brent

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/top_50__of_wage_earners_pay_96_09__of_income_taxes .Par.0008.ImageFile.jpg

[Brent Crouse]

Michael,

Your stats are based on total dollars taxed. Of course this then shows that the people who have high incomes pay a large portion of the overall tax. I just think that 28% should not be the highest tax level. Now I also do not think that it needs to go back to the 70% that it was years ago, but I think it could go up to 50% or so. If I made $10 million per year, I would have no problem paying Uncle Sam $5 million of it.

[Michael Larson]

Michael,

Your stats are based on total dollars taxed. Of course this then shows that the people who have high incomes pay a large portion of the overall tax. I just think that 28% should not be the highest tax level. Now I also do not think that it needs to go back to the 70% that it was years ago, but I think it could go up to 50% or so. If I made $10 million per year, I would have no problem paying Uncle Sam $5 million of it.If you made $10 million why would you do that?

Did you earn it or not?

What gives the government to right to take more money from one citizen than another.

Does the high tax paying citizen receive more or fewer government services?

Doesn't a flatter tax system make more sense?

I would have no problem with everyone paying the same percentage on income.

Would you?

[Brent Crouse]

I don't think anyone "earns" $10 million per year. They have been fortunate enough to have a talent that allows them to make that income. I don't think the sports athlete that makes $10 million does 100 times the work someone who makes $100k. He/she is fortunate to have that talent. Same goes for the CEO's.

Now if someone comes up with a cure for cancer, I would say that they deserve to make $10 million or so.

[Billy Stephens]

.
If I made $10 million per year, I would have no problem paying Uncle Sam $5 million of it.
.
:D That sounds like the old Joke,

If I had 2 million I'd give you 1.

If I had 2 cars I'd give you 1.
*ect.

Can I have 1 of your pigs.

No ! You know I only have 2.
* never meet a liberal that had a problem My Money would not Fix. :rolleyes:
.

[Michael Larson]

I don't think anyone "earns" $10 million per year. They have been fortunate enough to have a talent that allows them to make that income. I don't think the sports athlete that makes $10 million does 100 times the work someone who makes $100k. He/she is fortunate to have that talent. Same goes for the CEO's.

Now if someone comes up with a cure for cancer, I would say that they deserve to make $10 million or so.Trust me, if hiring a ball player for $10 Million did not produce a return on investment he would not have received the offer.

Never forget that sports is a business.

Would you be in favor of capping ball players salaries?

[Brent Crouse]

I fully understand why they make that kind of money, and I don't have a problem with it. Just think they should not have a problem paying a higher tax rate.

[Michael Larson]

I fully understand why they make that kind of money, and I don't have a problem with it. Just think they should not have a problem paying a higher tax rate.Why are you so willing to confiscate what someone else has earned.

If I make a $1 Million and pay 28% it's $280,000.

If you make $10 Million and pay 10% it's $2,800,000 but by your own admission you think you should pay $5,000,000.

It doesn't seem fair to me but I'm not a progressive.:)

[Ron Bibler]

I don't think anyone "earns" $10 million per year. They have been fortunate enough to have a talent that allows them to make that income. I don't think the sports athlete that makes $10 million does 100 times the work someone who makes $100k. He/she is fortunate to have that talent. Same goes for the CEO's.

Now if someone comes up with a cure for cancer, I would say that they deserve to make $10 million or so.


Dude you need to go live in another country. ever things you are stating is fascism/socialism with a capitalist veneer. This is not FREEDOM. And i do not need you to tell me how much i can make, how i can make it and how i need to spend it ( thank you very much )

I like my Freedom to come and go any way i want...:D

You all your socialism buddy need to pac-your bags and go live together. then you could tell each other what to do when to do it how to do it and then you would find out just what a mess that type of system offers.

best

Ron

[Brent Crouse]

I understand that some people would not want to pay that much. I honestly would not have a problem with it. My view is that I'm still making more money than I realistically need.

I wish I did make that kind of money. I can think of a lot of lesser fortunate people that I would be able to help out.

[Brent Crouse]

Dude you need to go live in another country. ever things you are stating is fascism/socialism with a capitalist veneer. This is not FREEDOM. And i do not need you to tell me how much i can make, how i can make it and how i need to spend it ( thank you very much )

This is a socialist country. Maybe not as much so as some other countries, but it still is.

So I guess you don't want a govt run military, police, fire, etc. These are all "social" services. Guess, you can take care of yourself!!!

[Michael Larson]

This is a socialist country. Maybe not as much so as some other countries, but it still is.

So I guess you don't want a govt run military, police, fire, etc. These are all "social" services. Guess, you can take care of yourself!!!Baloney.

The military is constitutionally mandated.

Police and fire protection are not the responsibility of the federal government.

BTW- if you are convinced yo make more than you jneed send it to Ron and I to put to good use.:D

[Ted Menelly]

I am all for a flat tax

Go for it

If the part time wlamrt folks pay 10% it would not kill them. If someone makes 100,000,000 they pay ten million. They don't get hurt. The governmrnt would have to be looking all over the place to spend all the money. As it sands now a very large majority of folks do not even pay a federal tax

[Michael Larson]

I am all for a flat tax

Go for it

If the part time wlamrt folks pay 10% it would not kill them. If someone makes 100,000,000 they pay ten million. They don't get hurt. The governmrnt would have to be looking all over the place to spend all the money. As it sands now a very large majority of folks do not even pay a federal taxAgreed. Far too many people pay little or no taxes and so have no skin in the game.

They are more than willing to vote for politicians that promises them goodies.

[Brent Crouse]

Constitutionally mandated, but still govt run.

I said I wish I made that much money. Unfortunately, I'm no where near.

[Michael Larson]

Constitutionally mandated, but still govt run.

I said I wish I made that much money. Unfortunately, I'm no where near.That doesn't make them socialist.


My view is that I'm still making more money than I realistically need.Well send what ever you have extra then.;)

[Brent Crouse]

Agreed. Far too many people pay little or no taxes and so have no skin in the game.

They are more than willing to vote for politicians that promises them goodies.

Although I don't agree with a 10% flat tax, I fully agree with this quote!!!!

Wow, that only took 10 or so posts to find some common ground!!!

[Terry Sandmeier]

Here is something for all, Enjoy!!

http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/news/videos/player.html?mid=Reuters/6-09/Obama-Jib-Jab-6-22.asf&pimg= (http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/news/videos/player.html?mid=Reuters/6-09/Obama-Jib-Jab-6-22.asf&pimg=)

[Terry Sandmeier]

This a better video cklick on this one!!


YouTube - He's Barack Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVFdAJRVm94)

[A.D. Miller]

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!

BC: You can never win an argument with an ignorant man.

[Michael Larson]

BC: You can never win an argument with an ignorant man.A.M. You can never win an argument with someone who refuses to believe facts either but sure is fun making them look silly.

More Facts to chew on or ignore as you adjust your Obama blinders.

PERSONAL INCOME AND OUTLAYS (http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/pi/pinewsrelease.htm)
May 2009 (http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/pi/pinewsrelease.htm)

"Private wage and salary disbursements decreased $12.4 billion in May, compared with a decrease of $0.7 billion in April"

Keep telling yourself it's getting better folks.:eek:

[A.D. Miller]

ML: Keep telling yourself you are getting smarter.;)

[Michael Larson]

ML: Keep telling yourself you are getting smarter.;)Aaron, you make me look smarter every day. Thanks for this thread.

To the rest of you. Please notice that Aaron does not defend his assertions or engage in honest debate but rather engages in name calling.

Facts are troublesome to to certain people. Go figure.

[A.D. Miller]

Thanks for this thread.

ML: My pleasure. It was the least I could do. I tried uploading bananas and inntertubes for your playground, but alas the poor bandwidth!
Oy veh!:eek:

[Ron Bibler]

Quate: Michael Larson.
Aaron, you make me look smarter every day. Thanks for this thread.
To the rest of you. Please notice that Aaron does not defend his assertions or engage in honest debate but rather engages in name calling

Reply


ML: My pleasure. It was the least I could do. I tried uploading bananas and inntertubes for your playground, but alas the poor bandwidth!
Oy veh!:eek:


Bananas Aaron thats the best you can reply with :eek:

No debate, no ideas, no facts.

3 Strikes your out:D

Best

Ron

[Ron Bibler]

Quate: Michael Larson.
Aaron, you make me look smarter every day. Thanks for this thread.
To the rest of you. Please notice that Aaron does not defend his assertions or engage in honest debate but rather engages in name calling

Reply


ML: My pleasure. It was the least I could do. I tried uploading bananas and inntertubes for your playground, but alas the poor bandwidth!
Oy veh!:eek:


Bananas Aaron thats the best you can reply with :eek:

No debate, no ideas, no facts.

3 Strikes your out:D

Best

Ron

[Scott Patterson]

I had to check the web address, for a second I thought I was over at the INACH playground! Now 102 post of dribble.

[Brent Crouse]

More Facts to chew on or ignore as you adjust your Obama blinders.

"Private wage and salary disbursements decreased $12.4 billion in May, compared with a decrease of $0.7 billion in April"


You only pulled one stat out of that report. It also states:

"Real DPI increased 1.6 percent in May, compared with an increase of 1.2 percent in April. Real PCE increased 0.2 percent, in contrast to a decrease of 0.1 percent in April."

Also, see:

Personal income jumped in May - Jun. 26, 2009 (http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/26/news/economy/personal_income/?postversion=2009062609)

Bottom line is we could easily go out and pull stats to argue both sides.

[Fred Hughes]

Here's another view of "The One's" plan.

Education Gets A Failing Grade...America spends untold billions of dollars every year on primary and secondary education, but the National Association of Manufacturers say that the biggest problem hindering a strong and expanding manufacturing base in Americas is the lack of knowledge and skills of the American worker.. the human product of our education system is not competent enough to perform the work necessary for America to compete effectively in the global market...we are graduating students who can’t read, can’t figure, can’t spell, and can’t write a comprehensible paragraph...and a high percentage are dropping out, and not even finishing school ...

American education started going bad in the l960s, and got progressively worse with time...ill-conceived ideas like “open classrooms” and “new math” and “mainstreaming” mentally handicapped and slow learners and rambunctious children in with other students, and any number of other nonsensical initiatives dreamed up by the new breed of teachers coming out of our socially-brainwashing colleges, and “progressive liberal “ administrators, all of whom, under the socialistic guidance and direction of the NEA (the national teachers union) brought ill-advised and destructive changes to American education... instead of an institution of learning, it was transformed into a vehicle for “social change”...

We are paying for a product we are not getting, and the only thing our governmental and societal leaders can think to do is to pour more money into a failing system...and more government bureaucrats to administer it...teachers and administrators, and their union hierarchy, have been blaming poor pay, excessive class sizes, inattentive parents, poor facilities, and any number of other rationalizations for their poor performance for decades...but it’s THEM... they are the cause of our education dilemma...let there be no doubt about that...aided and abetted by Boards of Education, whose members are more concerned with their own political futures instead of student progress, the NEA has diminished America, more effectively than any foreign invading force could ever accomplish... as the old adage said “the proof is in the pudding”...

[Michael Larson]

You only pulled one stat out of that report. It also states:

"Real DPI increased 1.6 percent in May, compared with an increase of 1.2 percent in April. Real PCE increased 0.2 percent, in contrast to a decrease of 0.1 percent in April."

Also, see:

Personal income jumped in May - Jun. 26, 2009 (http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/26/news/economy/personal_income/?postversion=2009062609)

Bottom line is we could easily go out and pull stats to argue both sides.Not really and I understand why you may be confused. The MSM and the administration are spinning these numbers to make to think the recession is really over when it is not.

The DPI also includes money that the government either taxed or borrowed to get and then hand out and is not the result of people actually working and receiving a paycheck. It does not reflect an increase in economic activity or growth.

Sad but true. On top of that, 12% of mortgages are in default and that means they are not making house payments. That can't be good.

The number I quoted is relevant and the most important when indicating a turnaround. Read it again.

"Private wage and salary disbursements decreased $12.4 billion in May, compared with a decrease of $0.7 billion in April"

That is an astounding change month over month and it reflects the change in what employers are actually paying those with jobs.



Note:some of the above info is from a blog called the market-ticker.

[Michael Larson]

I had to check the web address, for a second I thought I was over at the INACH playground! Now 102 post of dribble.I for one did not consider it dribble when you posted this:

A few more observations:

Did it not bother anyone when the President of France told Obama that he was trying to provide and do to much and that he needed to slow down? France the most socialized country in the World was saying Obama was doing to much!

Why is China starting to cash in their US dollars for gold?

Why have mortgage interest rates started to rise?

Did it not bother you when Obama apologized to his middle east audience last week for the US reaction to 9/11?

[Brent Crouse]

The DPI also includes money that the government either taxed or borrowed to get and then hand out and is not the result of people actually working and receiving a paycheck. It does not reflect an increase in economic activity or growth.

You are correct. Well, almost. Some of this money is, like you say, govt "handouts", like unemployment checks (again, thank you to Reaganomics). But some of it is also from the Stimulus which is going out in paychecks to those workers employed by programs funded by Stimulus dollars. Some of it is also the tax reduction for those making under $250K.

[Michael Larson]

You are correct. Well, almost. Some of this money is, like you say, govt "handouts", like unemployment checks (again, thank you to Reaganomics). But some of it is also from the Stimulus which is going out in paychecks to those workers employed by programs funded by Stimulus dollars. Some of it is also the tax reduction for those making under $250K.If it is is reflected in paychecks then there should not be a dramatic reduction in money paid out by private employers.

The larger point is that there is no increase in the GDP or any indication of recovery from growth in the economy.

BTW-most of the "Stimulus" $$$ were back loaded and that money is not yet in the economy for the most part.

Even though it was sold as going for "shovel ready projects" the reality is far different.

Maybe this will help (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Stimulus-money-steered-to-social-programs-over-of-shovel-ready-projects-46913127.html)

"
"We all talked about 'shovel-ready' since September and assumed it was a whole lot of paving and building when, in fact, that's not the case," said Chris Whatley, the Washington director of the Council of State Governments, a trade group for state governments. He estimates states will get three times more money for education than for transportation.

Two-thirds of recovery money that flows directly to states will go toward health care."


And this:


StimulusWatch.org (http://stimuluswatch.org/)

As to the tax reduction that is more smoke and mirrors.

You cannot pay for all the massive borrowing since Obama took office without increasing taxes and fees. The math speaks loudly.

[Brent Crouse]

The larger point is that there is no increase in the GDP or any indication of recovery from growth in the economy.

The larger point is that the Bush economic divebomb has been leveled off. Actually, new construction is up. How about that, I was able to bring relevence to this website!!!



Even though it was sold as going for "shovel ready projects" the reality is far different.

Yeah, it does take time, but I've already seen a lot of new bridge replacement construction projects here in the Atlanta area.



Two-thirds of recovery money that flows directly to states will go toward health care."

Don't forget that Bush is the one that got us into all this mess with his unjustified multi-trillion dollar Iraq war, and total lack of economic sense (who would cut taxes during a war???). And how convenient that he didn't include the cost of the wars in the budget, so his huge deficit didn't look as huge as it really is.

Let's face it, the Stimulus would not have been necessary if Bush wouldn't have been such a disastrous president.

I have to admit that I'm a little worried about the cost of the Stimulus package. But with what he was handed, Obama had to do something. We'll just have to wait and see how things work out.

[Michael Larson]

The larger point is that the Bush economic divebomb has been leveled off. Actually, new construction is up. How about that, I was able to bring relevence to this website!!!
We can only hope.


Don't forget that Bush is the one that got us into all this mess with his unjustified multi-trillion dollar Iraq war, and total lack of economic sense (who would cut taxes during a war???). And how convenient that he didn't include the cost of the wars in the budget, so his huge deficit didn't look as huge as it really is.And who raises them in severe recession?


Let's face it, the Stimulus would not have been necessary if Bush wouldn't have been such a disastrous president.BS It goes back much farther than Bushes two terms.


I have to admit that I'm a little worried about the cost of the Stimulus package. But with what he was handed, Obama had to do something. We'll just have to wait and see how things work out.Politicians of every stripe always have to "do something".
They just can't leave things alone.

Obama may have been handed a pile of crap but he is making the pile much higher.

I think this chart says it all.

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/03/21/GR2009032100104.gif

[Brent Crouse]

I think this chart says it all.

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/03/21/GR2009032100104.gif

Umm, taxes have been cut for anyone making less than $250K. Taxes should be raised on the mega-rich (but we've been through that already).

I agree that it goes back further than Bush. Back to the originator of Reaganomics. You know, out of control capitalism, which just makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer.

That graph is exactly what I was talking about when I said that the trillions of dollars for the Iraq war were not included in the Bush budget. Include that and things look pretty similar.

[Michael Larson]

Umm, taxes have been cut for anyone making less than $250K. Taxes should be raised on the mega-rich (but we've been through that already).

I agree that it goes back further than Bush. Back to the originator of Reaganomics. You know, out of control capitalism, which just makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer.

That graph is exactly what I was talking about when I said that the trillions of dollars for the Iraq war were not included in the Bush budget. Include that and things look pretty similar.If you believe taxes have been cut for all below $250K when did that happen?

The chart is what it is. There is no missing Iraq money.

Are you saying the CBO is publishing a a false chart for the Bush years?

Please tell me what you are talking about. Got Link?

Capitalism is not what is destroying us but socialism is trying to and that goes back to at least FDR.

[Brent Crouse]

This graph shows just the Iraq war budget by year.

http://zfacts.com/p/447.html

[Brent Crouse]

Here's some interesting reading on "emergency appropriations" for the war (and other things).

The Trillion-Dollar War: The War on Terror is now more expensive than Vietnam or World War I—but the dishonest way Washington is paying for it may prove costliest of all. - Reason Magazine (http://www.reason.com/news/show/125438.html)

[Michael Larson]

Brent,

I get it you are against the Iraq war and the associated spending.

But your claim that funny numbers are in the chart I posted have not been demonstrated.

The chart reflects very real deficit spending numbers by Bush and Obama as scored by the CBO.

Maybe this will help you understand the problem with Obama's plans.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/charts/NationalGDP.jpg

[A.D. Miller]

Of course, there is no Devil. But, if there were, he would certainly have made me do this . . .

Rush (the Big, Fat Idiot) Limbaugh (http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/rush.html):eek:

[Michael Larson]

Of course, there is no Devil. But, if there were, he would certainly have made me do this . . .

Rush (the Big, Fat Idiot) Limbaugh (http://home.att.net/%7Ejrhsc/rush.html):eek:Do you have anything intelligent to say in the thread you started or do you just desire to share your fantasies? :D

[Mike Schulz]

Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
The Silver Bear Cafe (http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/05.09/mindingthestore.html)
YouTube - Obama Budget Cuts Visualization (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWt8hTayupE)

A.D you are funny, a true lefty who can never give facts and wants to twist the truth. You sheep is what going to take down this great country. Us herders will round you up and put you back in your place:cool:

You can't spend your way out of poverty.

I still have hope for the Pres but it's looking real tuff, lots of wind and spending.

[Matthew Brown]

The number one threat to this country is not terrorism.

The number one threat to this country is liberalism.

[Mike Schulz]

Have you noticed none of the lefties has replied about the two video's.........:rolleyes:

[Brent Crouse]

Have you noticed none of the lefties has replied about the two video's.........:rolleyes:

Oh, sorry. Yeah, I thought Aaron's Rush video was great!!! What a slimeball.

And yours.....you mean the one showing the Democratic representative exposing the stupidity of federal reserve inspector general Coleman? I love that one!!! I would have liked Obama to fire her a$$ immediately after hearing that interview. She's been on the job for over 2 years now, so you'd think she should be on top of things.

And the other one is more righty finger pointing about spending. Yeah, we know the budget is huge. Funny how the righties were absolutely mute for the past 8 years of Bush's trillion plus spending on Iraq. Really got our money's worth there, didn't we?

[Billy Stephens]

And the other one is more righty finger pointing about spending.

Yeah, we know the budget is huge.

Funny how the righties were absolutely mute for the past 8 years of Bush's trillion plus spending on Iraq.
.
Iraq War 684 Billion ( not Trillions )

Obama 750 Billion Bailout. ( So Far )

Freddie & Fannie $$$$ ????

Plus AIG, GM, Chrysler, Banks, ect.

If You want to See The Very Best Case for Nationalized Health Care Visit Your Local VA Hospital. :eek:

[Brent Crouse]

The Iraq war is not over. It will go well over the Trillion mark, and being Bush started it, I account that wasted money on him.

Most of those other numbers are from Bush's reign. For some reason the righties are trying to tie Obama to them. I will give you that Obama did vote for them while a senator under Bush though.

[Billy Stephens]

The Iraq war is not over. It will go well over the Trillion mark, and being Bush started it, I account that wasted money on him.

Most of those other numbers are from Bush's reign. For some reason the righties are trying to tie Obama to them. I will give you that Obama did vote for them while a senator under Bush though.
.
At the start of this thread Obama with less than 6 months is turning the Tide.

Check the Latest Jobs Decline Numbers.

I can Hardly Wait Till Next Year. :rolleyes:
lefties Spending Someone Else's $$$$$$$.

Your Guy is in Charge Let's See What He can do.

I surely hope He can ( We are all betting The Farm on it. )
.

[Ted Menelly]

The Iraq war is not over. It will go well over the Trillion mark, and being Bush started it, I account that wasted money on him.

Most of those other numbers are from Bush's reign. For some reason the righties are trying to tie Obama to them. I will give you that Obama did vote for them while a senator under Bush though.

Teds short rant

Stop with the Bush thing. Make believe George died. He is out of the picture. In your own admitance you stated Obama voted for half the garbage that took place along with most of the other Dems.

As far as the Iraq war when are any of you going to get the fact that if it was not George, while he was President then it would have been Obama getting the US into it. It was absolutely positively inevitable that we would have been in Iraq and Afganistan sooner or later. It WAS only a matter of time.

As far as all the rest of the making of this recession it is a natural occurance that it would have also happened no matter who was in office. The economy corrects itself over time and that is a given.

It is the DEMS and Repubs or conservatives and liberals that are responcible for all of this and if you folks that do not realise this there is no help.

And my disclaimer.

I am not a Dem or a Repub so don't even go there. As a matter of fact it is everyone around the world that got everyone else in the world into this. If you did not notice the rest of the world was on a ride to the bitter end to gain as much financially until it crashed and fell off the tracks.

No one party and no one person or groups of people around the world that was respocible for this. It was everyone making any money and wanting more and a better life style that was responsible for this. If you don't like this crash, just sit back, Waite, breath easy, get plenty of nutrition and hide your money under your mattress because the next one is going to make this one look like you lost your .10 before you bought your piece of candy. It will be a crash like you never saw.

There is not enough money to be made or taxes to be paid to pay back the entitlements to be paid out and loans to pay back and health care programs and energy programs etc etc etc

With the overwhelming restrictions that are slowly being set in financing everyone will be doing magic tricks on the street corner to survive.

If you think all the poor in the US are gpoing to be brought up the ladder from all these programs...think again. With out upper levels making money to put the poor folks to work or for them to contract work from they will be far worse off than they were before.

I am personally scared to death of the future economic situation that is taking place in this country.

[Don Sweet]

With all due respect Mr. Miller, are you brain dead or smoking dope?

Don Sweet
City Building Inspector

[Michael Larson]

And the other one is more righty finger pointing about spending. Yeah, we know the budget is huge. Funny how the righties were absolutely mute for the past 8 years of Bush's trillion plus spending on Iraq. Really got our money's worth there, didn't we?I have breaking news for you, Bush was not a conservative and conservatives deplored the reckless spending on Medicare part D and the expansion of the SCHIP program.

I was not mute about Bush and I now find it hilarious the lefties for the most part are giving Obama a pass on his spending even though it is an order of magnitude worse.

Hope and change baby.

[Ron Bibler]

Say a Michael do you not find it funny that. you and i as conservative. in a country like ours and in this day and age that we need to explain to people what a conservative is.

Some will say they are very smart and they are in many ways. but the understanding of what a conservative is just goes over there heads.


Points of a conservative.

1. You keep what you make.
2. Help your brother from your own pocket.
3. Support our country the USA first and above all.
4. Freedom of speech.
5. Own your own land.

These 5 give you the foundation of a conservative.

Now is there one person that say these things should not be so?

If you can say that these 5 things are bad then you are not a conservative.

An odd thing about these 5 thing.

They are all from the ten Commandments:eek:

Best

Ron

[Mike Schulz]

Here's A.D. way of thinking. A.D. jumps out of a plane without a parachute. Half way down he thinks to himself "so far so good".

[Michael Larson]

Say a Michael do you not find it funny that. you and i as conservative. in a country like ours and in this day and age that we need to explain to people what a conservative is.One of the reasons for that is the left painted George bush as a conservative even thought he was far from it.

When he ran in 2000 most conservatives where very concerned that was no where near conservative enough. That turned out to be true but it did not prevent the left from railing against him as some evil conservative.

When he got in bed with

Ted Kennedy on education
promoted amnesty for illegals
passed Medicare part D(drugs)
refused to use his veto pen until vary late in his term
decided to go along to get along

Most conservatives where appalled.

I think he did an outstanding job in protecting this country post 9/11 but the rest not so much.

[Ed Reynolds]

Some things bear repeating.

From a Church Marquee...

Declaration of Independence:

More Freedom

Not More Government!

[Robert Mattison]

Terry S.

Just a big thanks for the Obama video site.:cool:

[Terry Sandmeier]

Robert M.

Yea Man!

[William Layher]

Are you for real?

[Benjamin Thompson]

Less than 6 months in the office and Barack is digging us out of the Bush Hole.

Total US jobless rolls drop sharply to nearly 6.7M - Builder Magazine (http://www.builderonline.com/null/total-us-jobless-rolls-drop-sharply-to-nearly-67m.aspx)

Republicans take your besst shot.:D

Remember all these posts? How are things working out for all you Obama supporters?

[Billy Stephens]

.
Remember all these posts? How are things working out for all you Obama supporters?
.
Here Ya Go. :D
.

[Benjamin Thompson]

Ahhhhhh! Kool Aid! Did you draw that yourself, Billy?
Our comments will probably be deleted now that we are on the wrong side of political debate, you watch! Maybe the entire thread!

[Hank Spinnler]

Remember all these posts? How are things working out for all you Obama supporters?

Pretty good if $16 trillion in debt and ongoing unemployment rate of over 8% are considered positive. Of course, the apologists will defend him as they go over the falls.

[Jerry Peck]

Pretty good if $16 trillion in debt and ongoing unemployment rate of over 8% are considered positive.

Are you saying that 8% unemployment is NOT better than the 9%-10% he was given?

If you are, then I guess we need to go back to that 9%-10% your buddy W left him? Your math skills make no sense ... 8% IS less than 9%-10%, and that IS a POSITIVE thing.

[Billy Stephens]

.
Ahhhhhh! Kool Aid! Did you draw that yourself, Billy?!
.
I Wish ! ( I'm not Good ). :D
.

[Nick Ostrowski]

I'm having my best year since 2007 before the market took a crap. I've been consistently busy all year inspecting bigger houses and charging more. I can't speak for others but I'm doing fine. But it doesn't mean I'm OK with the way things are going in the country. I can't say I'm dissatisfied enough to vote for the guy with swiss bank accounts.

[Hank Spinnler]

Obama Turning the Tide... to Red

@Jerry, I believe he said that if he didn't cut the deficit in half and reduce unemployment to below 6%, he would be a 1-term president. Lord, I hope determined his own fate with that statement.

Nick, I am glad you are having an awesome year in business. Ditto here. You need to be charging more for increases in cost of living and to save for retirement. You dollar is not going to stretch quite as far. The high amount of National debt will be part of the reason.

Based on what you said, it seem it is against your conviction to vote for someone who is rich and has Swiss bank accounts. However, all taxpayers must pay for Obama to fly & to ride around the country campaigning and fundraising with his motorcade. He acts like it is HIS money and he is entitled to do whatever the heck he wants without producing. He has become renowned for playing golf, hosting more fundraisers than his predecessors, appearing on late night TV, shows like The View and giving interviews to People magazine. Many seem to care more about what he listens to on his iPod. When I watch him "Slow jamming the news" with Fallon, that's enough. Will not watch Michelle & Pelosi on Fallon. The White House Correspondents dinner, which was more like a celebrity roast, was embarrassing to watch. In my opinion, beneath the office of the president. Pardon me, but WTF?

B.O. is not attending to the duties of the Office. He hasn't met with his Jobs Council. Similarly, it's a long time since he's held a press conference. He has chief apologist, Jay Carney, out there defending him and telling reporters that he has not heard of this development or been apprised of that issue.

No matter what your age is, has the country every been more divided than it is now? Look at all the back and forth on message boards, no matter if it's an inspector message board or the major news hubs, it's everywhere. Why, because many of us are holdouts on the direction this country is going. The slow erosion of Liberty and individualism that liberals & progressives dismiss. Why should government initiate a class warfare debate and determine what is a reasonable amount of money to earn?

He has been doing a fair amount of pandering lately. I call it "shotgun pandering" to unions, students & other groups he needs to collect votes from. I guess it's easy to go to universities and colleges and pick off impressionable students who have not had as much life or job experience. Promise them loan forgiveness and continued low interest rates. I guess he is allowed to "evolve" on his opinion without being labeled a "flip flopper."

So Nick, look beyond your own back yard and see what's out there on the horizon. After all, don't you live and work in the birthplace of America, where the Liberty Bell resides and the Declaration of Independence was signed by our founding fathers?

You can pick apart all that I said and dismiss it as bullshit, but there are grains of truth in what I am saying. That is unless, some of you are too far gone to notice them.

"Envy is ignorance" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Jerry Peck]

@Jerry, I believe he said that if he didn't cut the deficit in half and reduce unemployment to below 6%, he would be a 1-term president.

Yes he did say that - with the full presumption that REPUBLICANS WOULD ALSO WANT WORK TOGETHER TOWARD HELPING THIS COUNTRY ... and the republicans chose NOT TO WORK TOWARD HELPING THIS COUNTRY ... and Obama cannot be blames for the republicans trying to destroy this country just so they can vote Obama out.

Seems some people are pleased with the republicans continuing to destroy this country and stop all progress toward a recovery. Those people would rather blame Obama now than to have helped with the recovery along the way, because if they had helped with the recovery along the way, all they could say would be 'Yep, what he said actually did work.', now they get to say that it did not work, but they ignore all the time and money they spent trying to make it NOT work.

So there is no need to post that $hit here. If you want to post that $hit, go to where you republicans hangout and talk about it while devising other ways to continue to try to make the recovery not happen.

[Nick Ostrowski]

I don't really trust either side Hank. They will all lie through their teeth and say what they have to in order to get elected. Like Jerry said, the dems and repubs would rather fight each other and try to undo and break apart what the other side accomplished rather than try to make something work. They may say they care about the American people but their actions don't show it.

Romney says he supports the 2nd amendment and doesn't want to add new laws regarding gun ownership but his actions during his tenure as the governor of Masachusettes says otherwise.

[Rick Cantrell]

I think if someone were to change their name to "None of the above" they would win. ;)

[Ted Menelly]

I dont know about you folks but IF I made millions a year I do believe I would have it in a safe bank off shore where I would not get beat to helll and back on taxes.

I guess I could keep it in one of our wonderful banks like all the ones we bailed out and then pay big taxes on it all. I guess those banks we paid billions towards that really did not need it and then they paid it back in record time and then continued to make billions and then to top it all off they all raise their fees and make millions and billions more just from those raised fees on top of all those billions they already made.

Take a check to a bank and cash it in a bank that is not your bank. Just for the privelage of saving the bank time and money utilizing a teller that is already getting paid for the day (poorly) and they will charge you 6 dollars or more in most banks. Eliminate the mail sorting and shuffling, bring the check directly to a banker that is already getting paid for the day, being cost effective and in reality maybe eliminating a job or so by doing the direct thing, and they charge you 6 dollars.

I wonder why someone that makes millions would put their money in an off shore account. Rediculous fees and rediculous taxes.

That is just one fine example.

One more thing. Instead of getting on someone for only paying 14% in federal tax that makes a lot of money how about the millions that pay absolutely no federal tax on their money. How about all the cuts to fammilies with children that can write of pretty large amounts from the taxes they pay even when that fammily is pulling in a 100,000 a year after taxes.

Way too much wrong in all directions and parties to even consider downing one side or the other or one person or the other for the foolshness that is going on.

If you make 100 dollars a week or 2,000 dollars a week you should pay a flat amount in federal taxes. Granted,, the far less you make the far less you pay but then no one in this country could be getting on anyone for what they do or do not pay in taxes.

In our state they pay the children of illegals 25,000 a year toward college ....per year.... that they never have to pay back. How about everyoine gets money for college and they all pay it back.

How about they tuition fees keep going up and up and up every year. How about the list on salaries from college empolyees does not even get under the 100,000 mark until after page 20 of the list. How about a college librarian making 60,000 some odd a year and a councelor husband making that or more. How about those jobs are not worth nearly half of that.

Gents there is a lot more going on here that needs to be corrected. What we really needed was a real recession where most of the make believe money that folks banked over 20 years disappeared and came back to reality and salaries came back to reality. Neighborhood and neighborhood of folks living in homes 4000 sq ft and up when decades ago a 4000 sq ft home would certainly not be the norm for the folks living in them and the salaries they made in comparison to today.

And our waitresses are still making mimimum wage and construction workers still making crap fo money. Police and teachers use to start out with the same money as construction workers. Granted cops and teachers eventually made more but now aday I have a couple of relatives in California that have both been teachers for a couple decades and they bring in over 100,000 a year after taxes between them. Fort worth cops start out with 53,000.00 a year after 30 days probation. The minimum retirement of a retired fort worth cop is .... about 53,000 a year plus full benefits for life.

Enough said. The country and the world has all got it wrong and sometime (probably after I am dead) there will be such a serious crash I would not want to live thru it.

Now, after that rediculous rant. Off to work in one of the better housing sales runs in several years. Will it last? Hope so but I know if it has to do with real estate it will run for a while and then drop again. I should have been a surgeon. Everyone will eventually need fixin.

[Mike Schulz]

Romney says he supports the 2nd amendment and doesn't want to add new laws regarding gun ownership but his actions during his tenure as the governor of Masachusettes says otherwise.

That's because he needs the NRA backing.
I have to admit Obama was shot down by the Dem's and Repub. not letting anything go through. Don't know if it won't work until you try it right? Need a law they can try their ideas on a short term basis and if it doesn't pan out as prescribed it gets thrown out. ..........Lets start with Welfare.

[Hank Spinnler]

Yes he did say that - with the full presumption that REPUBLICANS WOULD ALSO WANT WORK TOGETHER TOWARD HELPING THIS COUNTRY ... and the republicans chose NOT TO WORK TOWARD HELPING THIS COUNTRY ... and Obama cannot be blames for the republicans trying to destroy this country just so they can vote Obama out.

Seems some people are pleased with the republicans continuing to destroy this country and stop all progress toward a recovery. Those people would rather blame Obama now than to have helped with the recovery along the way, because if they had helped with the recovery along the way, all they could say would be 'Yep, what he said actually did work.', now they get to say that it did not work, but they ignore all the time and money they spent trying to make it NOT work.

So there is no need to post that $hit here. If you want to post that $hit, go to where you republicans hangout and talk about it while devising other ways to continue to try to make the recovery not happen.

I will post whatever $hit I want to unless the moderator chooses otherwise. As far as reaching across the aisles, the president has unilaterally passed the unpopular Obamacare without a single republican vote for it. Where was the transparency and televising it on C-Span? He had two years to turn the ship around, but instead, worked on breaking the record for the number of golf outings by a president as well as hosting "Star Wars" character parties at the W.H. Where was the transparency he pledged? None, but definitely some scandals including GSA, Secret Service, & Solyndra. Cap-and-trade, a failure. Over-regulating the coal industry. Keystone pipeline - ditched. Chevy Volt? I've seen four of them total in the last 2 years. By the way, I'm sure there will be one or two waiting for him when he returns to being a private citizen.

The word "progress" as this administration interprets it as "it's our way or the highway." Harry Reid is playing goalkeeper on your end. He's not letting anything come up for a vote. He needs to retire and attend to his pomegranate trees.

[Marc M]

A few thoughts:

I just would like to know how his lordship plans on paying for everything he is doing!

I think it was pointed out that one reason unemployment numbers are down is that many have used all of their unemployment up and they are now off the list. If you don't collect unemployment then you are not included in the numbers.

At what point will our current political leadership and others realize that they need to take ownership and stop passing the blame to those who are no longer around.

Why do we tolerate folks like Barbara Boxer? The General said Yes Ma'am (this is how the military refers to others in formal settings) and he was called on the rug and told to call her Senator.

Why have we not heard anything about the Inspector General that was fired for questioning how money was being spent. Ahh, I think this is his job!

When will the media honeymoon be over for Obama? Camelot is looking more like Disneyland.

Will you be willing to pay a 40% tax on your income to support the health care program (Obamacare) that is being looked at? Or would you be willing to pay a 10% VAT tax on everything you purchase?

And yes I'm a conservative Independent.

Well said...

[Aaron Miller]

With the upcoming elections it might be prudent to remember the old German saying: same trough, different pigs.

[John Ghent]

Just plain and simple folks. Keep it plain and simple. The republican mind has become warped beyond belief. I would surely like to keep church and state separate when it comes to politics. But with guys running for the Senate that believe in some form of "Legitimate" rape, and that a "woman can shut down her body to prevent pregnancy when she is raped" I get really really scared. How does the conservative religious beliefs that spawn these crazy bastards survive in a modern world? Do you want the government to dictate to ALL women that they MUST deliver a baby when they get pregnant regardless of circumstance?

This same superior attitude was evident in our Bush cabinet with Donald Rumsfeld telling us that he was sending the best equipped army in the world to Iraq. So how many men were killed and maimed before he started adding armor to the Humvees? Oh, remember little Georgie standing in his flight suit on an aircraft carrier announcing that the war was over? Let's see, that was about 7 years ago.

The troops are returning from Iraq thanks to Obama.
GM is still in business thanks to Obama. (and the treasury made a huge profit on their stock.)
We have a pretty decent shot at giving everyone good health care and to cut costs at the same time thanks to Obama.
The simple fact is that the Republican party has become so out there that our nation is in deep trouble. Where are the reasoned minds that saw public service as just that? Not as a career.

I am a registered democrat who voted for the man. I have in the past voted republican because of the man. But the latest round of nuts running for office have led me to believe that the politics that made this country the greatest democracy ever no longer exist. We are in deep **** and sinking fast.

[Aaron Miller]

We are in deep **** and sinking fast.

Yes sir.

[Billy Stephens]

.
Yes sir.
.
May I present 50 Dumb Liberal Quotes | The Stir (http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/109417/50_Dumb_Liberal_Quotes) :D
.
Don't get me Started on Joe :rolleyes: Biden Gaffe: Asks a Gentleman in a Wheelchair to Stand Up- YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRV5Y1JCGRI)
.

[Scott Patterson]

And all I'm trying to do is to figure out who built my business if I didn't!

A few of my thoughts.....

I simply want to provide for my family! I will pay my income tax as required, but I do not feel that I need to support folks that are not even citizens of the United States of America.

The government does not produce anything but debt, the small businesses across the country do produce and we are the ones that are punished more and more with regulations and tax.

I feel our current guy in DC has failed. I feel our leaders on both sides of the isle in DC have failed. Just watch a few mintues of CSPAN and you will have to remind yourself that you are not watching Romper Room!

[Dan Harris]

[QUOTE=
GM is still in business thanks to Obama. (and the treasury made a huge profit on their stock.)
We are in deep **** and sinking fast.[/QUOTE]



General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/)

[Randy Aldering]

What Obama is turning is this country, and he is turning it upside-down. He is dividing the People, and he is eliminating the Constitutional Republic of our founding. He is forcing us ever more close to an Administrative Republic. He is a traitor.

[Marc M]

Turning nothing but my stomach...

[Marc M]

And all I'm trying to do is to figure out who built my business if I didn't!

A few of my thoughts.....

I simply want to provide for my family! I will pay my income tax as required, but I do not feel that I need to support folks that are not even citizens of the United States of America.

The government does not produce anything but debt, the small businesses across the country do produce and we are the ones that are punished more and more with regulations and tax.

I feel our current guy in DC has failed. I feel our leaders on both sides of the isle in DC have failed. Just watch a few mintues of CSPAN and you will have to remind yourself that you are not watching Romper Room!
Yea..., this pretty much sums it up.

[John Arnold]

I wish we could just leave political discussions out of this forum. There are so many other places online to express political opinions. Why here?
I'm sorry I read any of the posts on this thread. The vitriol is kind of sickening.
See you all on the threads where we discuss home inspections.
And ... Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

[Billy Stephens]

. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Well you too !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJOe3CXE-mA

[Billy Stephens]

Well you too !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJOe3CXE-mA

one more :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=abEQ8WoNyCo

[Marc M]

one more :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=abEQ8WoNyCo

LOL.., nice...you go Billy.

[Billy Stephens]

LOL.., nice...you go Billy.

Don't Look John ! :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6TcpfBHlbs

[Garry Sorrells]

I wish we could just leave political discussions out of this forum. There are so many other places online to express political opinions. Why here?
I'm sorry I read any of the posts on this thread. The vitriol is kind of sickening.
See you all on the threads where we discuss home inspections.
And ... Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


"Why Here?" and "The vitriol is kind of sickening." Well why not and the truth can be sickening can't it.

Be happy that you still can voice an opinion without the thought police coming after you. Well for the most part.

Too many people in America refrain from political discussion. Which may be why we are in the position we are in now. They go for the warm fuzzy trust me possitions offered by many politicians. Or they buy into class and race warfare concept offered.

Be happy that you can still say "Merry Christmas" without retribution.

MERRY CHRISTMAS........

[Jerry Peck]

I wish we could just leave political discussions out of this forum. There are so many other places online to express political opinions. Why here?
I'm sorry I read any of the posts on this thread. The vitriol is kind of sickening.
See you all on the threads where we discuss home inspections.
And ... Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

I agree.

The problem with the people carrying on this thread is that they are the base of the New Republican Party in which its members are evangelical gun toting old white guys spouting the things about religion and not wanting anyone or anything who does not look like them or think like them ... just one problem with that New Republican Party - the only way for it to survive is for the men to have women to help reproduce and most of the women are now smart enough to realize that evangelical gun toting old white guys are relics of the past. :D

Sorry about that guys, but your rants are causing most folks to puke ... (sigh) :rolleyes:

This place would be better without all the political chest beating and showing non-acceptance of people different from you. :rolleyes:

[Billy Stephens]

I agree.
This place would be better without all the political chest beating and showing non-acceptance of people different from you. :rolleyes:
Wow!
I'm looking forward to the coming year with the kinder gentler more accepting Jerry Peck. ..:D

[Bill Parrish]

I agree.

The problem with the people carrying on this thread is that they are the base of the New Republican Party in which its members are evangelical gun toting old white guys spouting the things about religion and not wanting anyone or anything who does not look like them or think like them ... just one problem with that New Republican Party - the only way for it to survive is for the men to have women to help reproduce and most of the women are now smart enough to realize that evangelical gun toting old white guys are relics of the past. :D

Sorry about that guys, but your rants are causing most folks to puke ... (sigh) :rolleyes:

This place would be better without all the political chest beating and showing non-acceptance of people different from you. :rolleyes:
What an asswhole. . .

[Hank Spinnler]

I agree.

The problem with the people carrying on this thread is that they are the base of the New Republican Party in which its members are evangelical gun toting old white guys spouting the things about religion and not wanting anyone or anything who does not look like them or think like them ... just one problem with that New Republican Party - the only way for it to survive is for the men to have women to help reproduce and most of the women are now smart enough to realize that evangelical gun toting old white guys are relics of the past. :D

Sorry about that guys, but your rants are causing most folks to puke ... (sigh) :rolleyes:

This place would be better without all the political chest beating and showing non-acceptance of people different from you. :rolleyes:

Who's beating their chest Jerry?

Liberals get away with categorizing and stereotyping those with opposing views. I am not old, not evangelical and do not own a gun as of this moment. Why am I lumped in your "relics of the past" group Jerry?

Liberals said nothing but disparaging remarks about people who felt that they were "Taxed Enough Already" if you know what I mean. Phrases like "teabaggers" and such. Racist remarks that no one could prove. Spitting on folks that did not happen.

On the other hand, the occupiers got a pass from the president and from that bat $hit crazy Pelosi. White guy makes a remark and all hell breaks loose. Double standard in the media.

Do you believe we have a revenue problem or a spending problem Jerry? Did you have a career in government with a pension and believe government is good?

Liberals are the ones that don't accept others with opposing views like limited government. Liberal elites wish to regulate, educate and control the "unwashed masses" in order to create a more ideal or Utopian society. I know, I have a member of the family who is a PhD and she works for the federal government. She gets all the dead president days off and can usually shut if down after 5 pm to get home and watch Ellen. I don't have that luxury. She's always offering advice and trying "fix" everybody. Would she trust Obama and Biden with her checkbook? Hell no, but he catered to her demographic so she's hooked.

You know what makes me want to puke and roll my eyes? That often repeated campaign uttering of "fair share" and "fair shot" and his class warfare b.s. Dems created the fake war on women thing. That's insulting to intelligent women.

I am one demographic that he did not pander to. He covered all the rest of the bases with the "working class" rhetoric when campaigning to UAW workers, naive college students, and the gay & lesbian community. After all, if you run your own small business, that does not count. IRS simply wants you to be a productive worker bee. Hiring up to say 19,000 more IRS agents to enforce Obamacare. Now that's progress isn't it? Your rant didn't make me want to puke. It just made me mad. :mad:

[Jerry Peck]

I, and others, have ignored these political posts from the extremist wing of the republican Guard for most of this thread.

If those people do not like the opposite views to be posted ... go suck an egg. Sheesh! :rolleyes:

We''ve heard far too much blathering crap from those in the Republican Guard, and, if you want to see a kinder and gentler me in the new year ... well ... then all you have to do is stop the crappy Republican Guard posts, because, as you should now have noticed - only the blind may have missed this - I will be replying with posts which are increasingly aggressive ... don't like it? Then STFU.

Maybe this will get Brian to delete this thread - seems there are some here who simply cannot take what they are dishing out. To bad is my response. :rolleyes: :p :eek:

[Jerry Peck]

The thread has been reported, we shall see if Brian wants to delete it or leave it to deteriorate as it will.

[Jerry Peck]

By the way ... STFU ... ?

Stupid Typing For Unknowns :p

What did you think it meant? :D

[Billy Stephens]

Take 2 half breaths there Mr Understanding, Kinder & Gentler . :D
*don't get the ole pressure too high.

[Nick Ostrowski]

Good times.

[Garry Sorrells]

Jerry,
Disable the thread, why? Because it upsets you?

You are the one going over the top with your comments. Does sound like either you meds need adjusting or you just need to get on some good ones.

I tried reading your comments as if you were joking but seems that you may not be joking. If so then I'm sad...

Jerry, do you like and follow the NASCAR closely or just like watching the events?

[Benjamin Thompson]

I, and others, have ignored these political posts from the extremist wing of the republican Guard for most of this thread.

If those people do not like the opposite views to be posted ... go suck an egg. Sheesh! :rolleyes:

We''ve heard far too much blathering crap from those in the Republican Guard, and, if you want to see a kinder and gentler me in the new year ... well ... then all you have to do is stop the crappy Republican Guard posts, because, as you should now have noticed - only the blind may have missed this - I will be replying with posts which are increasingly aggressive ... don't like it? Then STFU.

Maybe this will get Brian to delete this thread - seems there are some here who simply cannot take what they are dishing out. To bad is my response. :rolleyes: :p :eek:

Right from the Democrat handbook. If you can't win the argument, marginalize the other side (along with some name-calling which also helps). Or, better yet, try to get the entire argument deleted!:rolleyes:

[Nick Ostrowski]

This thread is a microcosm of why I hate politics and political speak. Both sides would rather point fingers at each other, call each other names, and blame each other when things go wrong. And the way everybody labels each other and chooses sides just drags things down even further. I don't care about democrat this or republican that or liberal this or conservative that. Get rid of the parties, get rid of the labels, and get to working together on solutions.

Just fix it.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry,
Disable the thread, why? Because it upsets you?

Nope, to save you from getting upset in the very near future, and to save others from getting upset to where they ask Brian to delete the thread.

But ... if you and the others wish, and Brian agrees to let this thread continue, then so be it ... I've not even gotten started yet.

I don't know what Brian's political persuasion is, and I really don't care, but if Brian likes nice and quite on this board then he should respect all sides of the political spectrum and save this forum form exploding into chaos.

Not my call, Brian's call.

[Jerry Peck]

This thread is a microcosm of why I hate politics and political speak. Both sides would rather point fingers at each other, call each other names, and blame each other when things go wrong. And the way everybody labels each other and chooses sides just drags things down even further. I don't care about democrat this or republican that or liberal this or conservative that. Get rid of the parties, get rid of the labels, and get to working together on solutions.

Just fix it.

Ditto.

But some refuse to attempt to get along, and after a while of letting one side rant, the other side may soon rant too.

[Billy Stephens]

save this forum form exploding into chaos.
.
The Sky's Falling.:rolleyes:

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

....

Do you believe we have a revenue problem or a spending problem

Its not an "either" / "or" situation.

BOTH, and the spending is required, i.e. paying on the DEBT GW rang up. The puppet of Chaney and the Millitary Industrial and Privatized Service support Industry complex.

We've all been enslaved as have our generations yet to come, to perpetual indentured servitude to the debt Chaney and puppet led the sheep from the TV to the fixed touch screen vote and ran up on the heads of many yet to be born genertions to come.

[Garry Sorrells]

Jerry,
Disable the thread, why? Because it upsets you?

You are the one going over the top with your comments. Does sound like either you meds need adjusting or you just need to get on some good ones.

I tried reading your comments as if you were joking but seems that you may not be joking. If so then I'm sad...

Jerry, do you like and follow the NASCAR closely or just like watching the events?


Nope, to save you from getting upset in the very near future, and to save others from getting upset to where they ask Brian to delete the thread.

But ... if you and the others wish, and Brian agrees to let this thread continue, then so be it ... I've not even gotten started yet.

I don't know what Brian's political persuasion is, and I really don't care, but if Brian likes nice and quite on this board then he should respect all sides of the political spectrum and save this forum form exploding into chaos.

Not my call, Brian's call.


Jerry, Frankly it seems that you are the one upset. As for myself getting upset, well I can say that it does upset me that you seem to feel that a dissenting view requires termination or an attempt to berate the dissenter. Rather than an enlightened discussion based on fact and not on conjecture.

It seems to be your belief that you can not have a civil discussion. Nice and quiet is a great concept along with rational. Which would be a grand direction to take.

I think that it is possible for the forum members to act in a reasonable manor and to maintain decorum in their presentation of their thoughts. You can either promote chaos or not, a decision that you have to make.

[Garry Sorrells]

Jerry, Do you Like or follow NASCAR ?

[Nick Ostrowski]

Jerry, Do you Like or follow NASCAR ?

Waiting to see where this is going.

[Hank Spinnler]

Its not an "either" / "or" situation.

BOTH, and the spending is required, i.e. paying on the DEBT GW rang up. The puppet of Chaney and the Millitary Industrial and Privatized Service support Industry complex.

We've all been enslaved as have our generations yet to come, to perpetual indentured servitude to the debt Chaney and puppet led the sheep from the TV to the fixed touch screen vote and ran up on the heads of many yet to be born genertions to come.

The answer is clear to me Mr. Watson, Sr. Government is too big, they spend too much and tax us too much. The vote for D.C. - Obama carried 91%. I wonder why? It's because they were counting on the milk and honey to keep flowing.

GW rang up debt for sure. Instead of investing in our own failing infrastructure, education and financial problems, he sent our troops into harms way and bled us. I was vehemently against the invasion of Iraq. Others have assumed that since I am a conservative Republican that they had a talking point against me.

From the preamble of the Constitution:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do establish and ordain this constitution of the United States of America."

The six purposes of government are:

1. To form a more perfect union

2. To establish justice

3. To ensure domestic tranquility

4. To provide for the common defense

5. To promote the general welfare

6. To secure the blessings of liberty, for us and our descendants.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry, Do you Like or follow NASCAR ?


Waiting to see where this is going.

No where ... :) ... that one's in the pits with flat tires and blown engine. :D

Besides, the Telsa S ran it down and embarrassed it. :p

:cool:

[Hank Spinnler]

No where ... :) ... that one's in the pits with flat tires and blown engine. :D

Besides, the Telsa S ran it down and embarrassed it. :p

:cool:

I thought it was the Chevy Volt that caught fire and blew up. :p

[Jerry Peck]

Just plain and simple folks. Keep it plain and simple. The republican mind has become warped beyond belief. I would surely like to keep church and state separate when it comes to politics. But with guys running for the Senate that believe in some form of "Legitimate" rape, and that a "woman can shut down her body to prevent pregnancy when she is raped" I get really really scared. How does the conservative religious beliefs that spawn these crazy bastards survive in a modern world? Do you want the government to dictate to ALL women that they MUST deliver a baby when they get pregnant regardless of circumstance?

This same superior attitude was evident in our Bush cabinet with Donald Rumsfeld telling us that he was sending the best equipped army in the world to Iraq. So how many men were killed and maimed before he started adding armor to the Humvees? Oh, remember little Georgie standing in his flight suit on an aircraft carrier announcing that the war was over? Let's see, that was about 7 years ago.

The troops are returning from Iraq thanks to Obama.
GM is still in business thanks to Obama. (and the treasury made a huge profit on their stock.)
We have a pretty decent shot at giving everyone good health care and to cut costs at the same time thanks to Obama.
The simple fact is that the Republican party has become so out there that our nation is in deep trouble. Where are the reasoned minds that saw public service as just that? Not as a career.

I am a registered democrat who voted for the man. I have in the past voted republican because of the man. But the latest round of nuts running for office have led me to believe that the politics that made this country the greatest democracy ever no longer exist. We are in deep **** and sinking fast.

Worth repeating because John covered it so well.

[Hank Spinnler]

I don't believe the messiah should get credit for saving GM just yet. The story is still evolving there. He may have saved a shot out of the sand trap on his recent vacation to Hawaii. I heard reports that GM is lagging behind other automakers and that we are on the hook for debt that will never be paid back. All to save the UAW.

Fiat controls over 58% of Chrysler my friends. Obama meddled in the free market, trying to pick winners and losers. He did so well picking Solyndra and others didn't he? After all, it wasn't his money that was on the line. Pitching the Chevy Volt and saying he might just drive one after his gig was up. Result: Production halted. Get your heads out of the sand and think.

[Garry Blankenship]

Not sure what good a show of colors accomplishes, but irresistable none-the-less. The flat tax is a better than good idea. People with real money, ( what political party do they affiliate with ? ), would never allow their paying a fair share. I watched a pre-Obama Presidency not only break the piggy bank they said we do not need, but spend the possibility of ever having one virtually out of existence. I am also wondering, if during the Bush/Cheney administration, the world's largest contract ever "given", ( not competed for ), to Haliburton, the off the charts oil company profits and U.S. oil company access to Irac oil fields, ( all at the expense of the U.S. tax payer ), has any connection at all to the Adminstration of that period ? I don't like the debt either, but it's damage control for two wars on credit cards.

[Benjamin Thompson]

Get your heads out of the sand and think.
27703
They're tryin ta think but nuttins happenin!
27702

[Ken Rowe]

I'm not affiliated with any party. I'm not a follower. I tend to think for myself and make decisions based on facts. Both political parties (and people affiliated with them) tend to distribute half truths to try to "prove" their points and nothing either say can be trusted.

Let me make this clearer for you. In my opinion, anyone affiliated with either the Democratic or Republican parties cannot be trusted. The parties lie, and if you're a supporting member, you're a liar also. You're supporting the lies, so it's guilt by association.

I didn't used to feel this way...it started about 20 years ago. It's unfortunate, but now when I vote I have to pick the lesser of the evils. This past election I made my decisions based on how I was personally doing in 2008 compared to 2012. In 2008 I made about $40,000 working for someone else. I've since started my own company and nearly tripled my income. In 2008 I had approximately $60,000 in debt, not including my house. Today I have about $8,000 in debt. Personally I'm doing much better. In my opinion, the country is not. And that's directly attributed to the two party system.

[Dan Harris]

Jerry, Do you Like or follow NASCAR ?

NASCAR's kinda like politcs, you have 4 teams , chevy, ford, toyota, and dodge. Every weekend they spend millions of $s to go around in circles then crash in to a wall. Then the team and their fans blame the other guys for their failures, after the outrage they blow the sponsers $s to do it all over again :D

[Garry Sorrells]

NASCAR;
The design and philosophy is to go as fast as you can and only go left. No other direction is acceptable. Then continue to go in circles till you get where you want. :p

[Marc M]

Good times.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NcXjfJwaTOA/T3JfPJdCTVI/AAAAAAAAATw/y9je4NUr2Ag/s1600/popcorn.gif yea...

[ryan stouffer]

AD, I just wanted to check on that hole that Obama was getting us out of! Great job so far!

[Thomas McKay]

How soon we forget and are ready to cast the blame! Check this out...........

WMD AND THE "LIARS" WHO SAID SADDAM HAD THEM - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEIOtn1wk5g)

[Ted Menelly]

Don't talk about politics on this board.

Don't talk about politics when you go to the party tonight.

Don't talk about politics when you go to dinner.

Don't talk about politics hwn have a family get together.

Don't talk about politics when you get together. with your friends.

Don't talk about politics when you go to your aunts house.

Don't talk about politics when you go to the doctors.

Etc etc etc

What the hell do you think is wrong with this country anyway.

Nobody wants to talk about things that matter like your future and your children's future.

I wonder why nothing ever gets done in this country except for inflated prices inflated salaries inflated millions upon millions upon millions of dollars in the stock market still being made in a heavy recession by the way. Folks paying more taxes gtha bring home over 100,000 dollars a year. Oh my they might go under. They might only be able to afford a 35000 square foot home instead of a 4000 square foot home.

Etc etc etc

Let's just stop talking about everything and stick our heads up our behinds. Just about as much may still get done.

[Garry Sorrells]

AD, I just wanted to check on that hole that Obama was getting us out of! Great job so far!

AD was taken to the wood shed and dismissed from the forum for inappropriate comments and personal attracts in his posts.

[Marc M]

AD was taken to the wood shed and dismissed from the forum for inappropriate comments and personal attracts in his posts.

He was personally "attracted" to someone in here??;) :D