Condo Inspection

[John Dirks Jr]

After being in business for almost two years, I finally have my first condo inspection.

I've done all different kinds of townhouses, duplex's and single family homes.

I know to apply the same basic principles to the condo. However, is there anything specific I should be aware of with regard to a condo inspection?

[John Dirks Jr]

Oh..here is a pic. Maybe not the exact unit but similar.

[Billy Stephens]

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I know to apply the same basic principles to the condo.

However, is there anything specific I should be aware of with regard to a condo inspection?
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Expressly Exclude All Common Areas in You Signed Pre-Inspection Agreement. ;)
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[Ron Bibler]

I think this was from W Coast Jerry. Its what i use.

3. Initials: _____ FOR CONDOMINIUMS, TOWNHOUSES, AND SUBDIVISIONS WITH COMMON AREAS.
Common areas (e.g., walls, foundation, roof, garage, laundry, etc.), shared by more than one unit, common mechanical systems (e.g., water heater, plumbing, etc.) used by more than one unit, and areas typically under the jurisdiction of the homeowners’ association (e.g., exterior grounds, exterior structure, and exterior systems) will not be inspected.

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Condos are unique in that there is no structure or roof involved, those are common areas, so disclaim them, along with all other common areas.

That said, a failure to report something with that railing, which IS "common property" could definitely lead to trouble if something was not right with it and someone fell over or through it.

Are those three story condo units, or single story condo units like stacked like apartments.

I guess you get up to the units from the other side or a common interior corridor.

The a/c units are not common as I can see condenser units on the ground, so each has its own a/c system, which mean you may likely need to get on the roof for the condenser unit. When on the roof, even though you have disclaimed it, give it a quick look over for obvious problems and report any you see, and if you see *any* problems with the roof recommend the roof be inspected *prior to closing* and that your client verify reserves for repairs, such as the roof, parking and road surfaces, pool(s), etc., as many times there is no reserve and the buyer become liable for any and all special assessments made *after closing*, even though they just bought.

Get the seller to be responsible for roof and other obvious repair costs and special assessments.

[Billy Stephens]

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The a/c units are not common as I can see condenser units on the ground, so each has its own a/c system, which mean you may likely need to get on the roof for the condenser unit. .
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Looks like Window AC Units on 2nd & 3rd Floors.
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* I don't do Window AC Units. :D
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[Matt Fellman]

Just yesterday I did a condo and reported on a rotted deck and rotted beam holding up stairs to the unit and the one next door. These two parts are undoubtedly HOA responsibility but just given the potential safety risk I put them in the report. Of course, I very clearly stated that I didn't inspect any other outdoor components. I just couldn't walk by these two hazards without mentioning them.

Most problems and lawsuits stem from a misunderstanding and/or a lack of communication. As long as you tell your client what you're doing and not doing you'll be okay in most cases.

Even though condos are only interior inspections common sense tells me that the occupants have to get to the interior and are likely to use the deck attached to the interior.... therefore, I inspect those parts.

[Jerry Peck]

Looks like Window AC Units on 2nd & 3rd Floors.

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I don't see any window a/c units in that photo.
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I see what looks like an operable window. Or what could be (but I doubt it) through wall units like in hotel/motel rooms.
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Sure hope you check those things.
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[Jerry Peck]

Just yesterday I did a condo and reported on a rotted deck and rotted beam holding up stairs to the unit and the one next door. These two parts are undoubtedly HOA responsibility but just given the potential safety risk I put them in the report. Of course, I very clearly stated that I didn't inspect any other outdoor components. I just couldn't walk by these two hazards without mentioning them.

Most problems and lawsuits stem from a misunderstanding and/or a lack of communication. As long as you tell your client what you're doing and not doing you'll be okay in most cases.

Even though condos are only interior inspections common sense tells me that the occupants have to get to the interior and are likely to use the deck attached to the interior.... therefore, I inspect those parts.

Correct.

And when you see a common item which is deficient, you need to include it in your report, such as you said with that stairs and I said with the roof. That applies to any common item you walk past and notice that there is something wrong with it which could cause harm, financially or injury-wise.

[Wayne Carlisle]

Shouldn't inspecting the common areas be included if he is inspecting the entire building?

If he was just inspecting one unit then I would say that he shouldn't be inspecting common units.



EDIT: Never mind.....I hadn't had my coffee yet!

[Jerry Peck]

Shouldn't inspecting the common areas be included if he is inspecting the entire building?

A condo is not an entire building. Each condo is only a "unit of space" (for lack of a better definition) within a common owned structure.


If he was just inspecting one unit then I would say that he shouldn't be inspecting common units.



EDIT: Never mind.....I hadn't had my coffee yet!

Sorry, did not see the edit part until I was done.

[John Dirks Jr]

Thanks for the input everyone. Your insight is helpful. I'll take the things you've mentioned into consideration.

[David Wood]

These comments are based on Ontario. Things may be different down south.

Up here, the common elements could be anything from the entire building outside of the drywall, to just the roadway. You need to check the declaration to see where the unit boundaries have been defined.

Of the last three I have done, the common elements for the first was everything outside the drywall, one was the roof only (just sheathing and shingles) and the last one was just the roadway, sidewalks and site lighting (the driveway, deck, yard and the entire building were part of the units).

[Billy Stephens]

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I don't see any window a/c units in that photo.
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I see what looks like an operable window. Or what could be (but I doubt it) through wall units like in hotel/motel rooms.
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Sure hope you check those things.
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Might Want to Fire Up Your NASA Twin Super Duper Spy Balls. ;)
* or check Wal-Green's for some New Readers.
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[Jerry Peck]

Might Want to Fire Up Your NASA Twin Super Duper Spy Balls. ;)
* or check Wal-Green's for some New Readers.
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Or maybe you can point them out to me in that photo. :p
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[Jerry Peck]

These comments are based on Ontario. Things may be different down south.

Up here, the common elements could be anything from the entire building outside of the drywall, to just the roadway. You need to check the declaration to see where the unit boundaries have been defined.

Of the last three I have done, the common elements for the first was everything outside the drywall, one was the roof only (just sheathing and shingles) and the last one was just the roadway, sidewalks and site lighting (the driveway, deck, yard and the entire building were part of the units).

David,

IF that is a second floor unit, then they do not own the first floor or the third floor, or the walls between units, which means they do not own the structure, which means the structure is "common property" to the association, which would (I suspect) be made up of all unit owners.

[Billy Stephens]

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Or maybe you can point them out to me in that photo. :p
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Next Building ( Past AC Condenser on the ground. )
* you've admitted you can see that. :p

Second Story ( 3rd window, 1 set of cooling fins cut into external metal case.)
Same Building ( last window , with 2 sets of cooling fins cut into external metal case. )

* the system I"m on now does not have The Circles & Arrows software installed. :(

[David Wood]

David,

IF that is a second floor unit, then they do not own the first floor or the third floor, or the walls between units, which means they do not own the structure, which means the structure is "common property" to the association, which would (I suspect) be made up of all unit owners.

What about the windows? My in-laws are responsible for windows and doors, but not the walls or roof of their condo.

My point is that (at least around here) they are not all the same and you could get yourself into trouble by assuming something belongs to the common elements.

[John Dirks Jr]

It had window units. Had meaning past. They were gone an the holes were coverd with a wood planks that were falling out to allow the wasps inside to nest.

There was a common water heater in the laundry room. Man, I never seen a water heater that big. That thing was gianormous.

[Jerry Peck]

Looks like Window AC Units on 2nd & 3rd Floors.


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Next Building ( Past AC Condenser on the ground. )
* you've admitted you can see that. :p

Second Story ( 3rd window, 1 set of cooling fins cut into external metal case.)
Same Building ( last window , with 2 sets of cooling fins cut into external metal case. )

Ummm ... Billy ... look at the FIRST FLOOR UNIT in *THAT* building. :p

Looks like *THAT* building is all window shakers.

Now, back to the building in the foreground, where I pointed out that condenser unit, *WHERE* are the windows units in *THAT* building?

[Jerry McCarthy]

Ron
That wasn't my HOA disclaimer, the below is what I put together back about 16-18 years ago in concert with fellow CREIA member Geoff Lunt and even today many California inspectors use it. (so I’ve been told). For those that wish too please feel free to use it, modify it, or send it to the round file. I’ve long held the view that inspecting a condo unit is from paint to paint and no common areas. However, I do agree with EC Jerry that you can't just walk past an obviously serious defect in good conscience and not report it as a FYI to your clients. The maintenance stuff, or lack thereof, your clients can see for themselves.

Home Owners Association:
The residential dwelling unit was part of a complex that is managed, and maintained by a "Home Owners Association." Our inspection is limited to a visual survey and basic operation of the systems and components of the residential unit within the interior space defined by its walls, floors and ceilings.

Our Inspection will not include exterior systems or components including “Common Areas” under the direction and control of the Home Owner’s Association. “Common Areas” are defined as exterior systems and components such as, but not limited to; land, walkways, patios, decks, stairs, landings, porches, hallways, balconies, exterior siding, roofs, pools, spas, recreational areas/equipment, elevators, utility metering, fire suppression systems, alarms, parking stalls, storage facilities, drainage systems, building site conditions, and structural stability. Client’s questions or concerns of conditions at any “Common Areas” should be addressed to the “Home Owner’s Association” or their certified representative.

It is suggested that the Home Owner’s Association’s “Proforma Operating Budget” including a Reserve Study as required by California Civil Code section 1365 & 1365.5 and the Department of Real Estate be carefully reviewed by our client. The reserve study should provide awareness as to the anticipated remaining life expectancies of the major components and systems. The budget should also include a statement of present funds, and a funding strategy to cover future major repairs and/or replacements.

It is also recommended that the current property owner (seller) and the "Home Owners Association" be consulted regarding known past and current defects, and disclose all corrective work performed. Our clients are also encouraged to thoroughly review the "C.C.& Rs" and "Reserve Study" for disclosure of pertinent facts effecting the current condition, and market value of the residential unit, the complex's common elements, and areas, and any past, existing or pending legal litigation."

[Billy Stephens]

Oh..here is a pic. Maybe not the exact unit but similar.


Ummm ... Billy ... look at the FIRST FLOOR UNIT in *THAT* building. :p

Looks like *THAT* building is all window shakers.

Now, back to the building in the foreground, where I pointed out that condenser unit, *WHERE* are the windows units in *THAT* building?
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Where does John Say His Inspection was limited to the Fore Ground Pictured Units?

When & Where was the thread Limited to only " THAT" building?
* some Wal-Green Stores stay open 24 hours. :D
** readers on sale $2.99.

[Jerry Peck]

Where does John Say His Inspection was limited to the Fore Ground Pictured Units?

When & Where was the thread Limited to only " THAT" building?

*THAT* building is the one *I* commented on. *YOU* commented on what *I* commented on.

Thus, *THAT* building is what *I*, and you by commenting on what *I* said, was discussing. :p

:D

[Jerry Peck]

The maintenance stuff, or lack thereof, your clients can see for themselves.

WC Jerry,

This is what I said about maintenance and lack thereof in my contracts.

The lack of maintenance is usually just as readily visible as is exceptional attention to maintenance. This inspection looks beyond the maintenance, or lack thereof, and evaluates the structure and its systems regarding whether or not there are systems, items, or components which are NOT FUNCTIONING AS INTENDED.

[John Dirks Jr]

That first picture I swiped from the listing. Here are a couple I took myself. Now you can discuss over these.

[Billy Stephens]

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Looks like Window AC Units on 2nd & 3rd Floors.
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* I don't do Window AC Units. :D
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*THAT* building is the one *I* commented on. *YOU* commented on what *I* commented on.

Thus, *THAT* building is what *I*, and you by commenting on what *I* said, was discussing. :p [quote/]
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Huh??
* Hurry to Your Locale Wal-Greens. :p[quote/]
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:D


T\
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Now you can discuss over these.
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Run Don't Walk to Your Nearest Exit !
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[Jerry McCarthy]

John
For what its worth I, and almost to a man, all California inspectors disclaim plug-in window mounted ACs. I don't know if it's strictly a CA thing, but we consider those AC units portable, like a portable heater and therefore personal property.
In certain areas in California those condo units would go for 500 K and up. What was the price range where you are, and speaking of that, exactely where are you?

EC Jerrry, your disclaimer soumds very Celtic. (that's a compliment)

[Billy Stephens]

EC Jerrry, your disclaimer soumds very Celtic. (that's a compliment)
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Show Does . :D
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[Jerry Peck]

I inspect the same and charge the same for a condo, I also inspect the roof. Associations are fine, but guess what happens when the roof needs to be replaced? They assess the condo owners. Don't you think a potential buyer would like to know that may be coming?
I can almost guarantee that if you don't inspect the roof you will eventually buy one, no matter what your I.A. says.

Depends on the condo.

If the condo extends from first floor to top floor, then each owner turns out to basically be responsible for their own units roof cost-wise.

However, on regular condo buildings where the condos are stacked like apartments, then there is only one roof over 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or more apartments, in which case that roof section cost is divided up, in a typical 3 story building with 20 units per floor, there are 60 units under that one roof, with 3 units under each 25 foot wide roof section.

[John Dirks Jr]

John
For what its worth I, and almost to a man, all California inspectors disclaim plug-in window mounted ACs. I don't know if it's strictly a CA thing, but we consider those AC units portable, like a portable heater and therefore personal property.
In certain areas in California those condo units would go for 500 K and up. What was the price range where you are, and speaking of that, exactely where are you?

EC Jerrry, your disclaimer soumds very Celtic. (that's a compliment)

Jerry,

I'm in central Maryland. I don't keep up on property price ranges but they run the full scale. This particular unit is a short sale in a lower income area just outside of the D.C. line. The client seemed happy to be paying inly 35k for this unit. 1 bedroom 500sq ft.

[Markus Keller]

I have a typical condo only, not inspecting the whole building disclaimer. However towards the end of my report I have a section titled, 'Condo Assoc. considerations'. I look at the overall building condition and areas the buyer would normally encounter or use. In that section I note items that are either major deferred maintenance or deterioration concerns, hazards or obvious Code or occupancy concerns.
The point of this is not to inspect the building but to protect the clients' interest. Just like in a regular HI. The possibility of a special or higher assessment in the near future to take care of these items can make purchase of a condo in a particular building not feasible for the client. You are giving the client better info and allowing that client to make an informed decision about purchasing into that building. I've had many condo buyers back out of deals, even though they loved the unit, because of overall building concerns. I educate them on what to look for when going to other condo buildings. Most find a better building and call me for that purchase.
Often times the buyer will ask the Assoc. questions about items I have noted. When the Assoc. can't provide good answers, it's time to run.
I'm sure I'll get flack for this here, so let's hear it.

[Rick Bunzel]

John,

We included a phrase in out condominium inspection that as a courtesy we will give them an opinion of the exterior. We also encourage them to do there "do diligence" on the HOA. In the years I have been inspecting I have seen the sellers holdback on providing the CCR's, financials and meeting minutes. Knowing what I know now I would never buy a condo without having adequate time to review those but consider who is buying these units first timers and retirees. Realtors just want to get the deal done and so what if the association doesn't have any reserves.

Last year I was inspecting a condo in a 7 unit complex. Older wood structure with a torch down roof. Lots of differed maintenance throughout the exterior. Turns out I was inspecting the association presidents unit and she knew what expenses were being differed. Did she want to disclose it? Nope, not until my client (through my report) ask those questions. Then it got worse, another unit was being foreclosed, two other were delinquent on dues and taxes and two others were rental with out of state owners. Not a good situation for a buyer, he walked. What looked like an attractive deal without consideration of the common property suddenly didn't looks so good.

//Rick

[ken horak]

John Dirks - PM sent