Termite inspection

[Raymond Wand]

Hello my fellowship members/inspectors;

In April of this year I was secured by a prospective buyer to perform a termite inspection as the home was in a designated termite zone as set by the municipality.
After a rigorous and detailed inspection based upon visual due dilligence there was no indication of infestation whatsoever. There were some recommendations for the buyer to seal off numerous caches from exterior penetrations made for various services lines.,,,

forward to July 10.....received a call from the purchaser ( a aquasi Mike Homles contractor) for me to come by the home as there were a few issues. Upon my arrival to the interior of the home I was actually flabbergasted. Portions of all interior walls and ceilings were exposed to the wood membranes and within them were thousands of active termite tubes. Within of course where these destructive termites doing what they do.

The purchaser had secured a termite eradication company who stated that the infestation was far too serious for simple fumigation and that all wood members would have to be replaced meaning the whole wood structure would have to come down to the level of the foundation. The purchaser told me he was suing me for a minimum figure of $200,00.00 for the replacement of the building.

I had inspected the structure to the Standards of Practice according to NACHI as well as other association standards and DID NOT find any signs of termites. If so I would have recommended an exhaustive inspection into wall cavities notwithstanding.
I do not have errors and omission coverage and having said that I am of the assumption such coverage would not be applicaable as I would not have been able to open walls or any such concealed cavities without permission of the owners of presale property.
Can anyone out there please advise me how to proceed?

Kind regards



If the inspector held himself out as qualified to conduct a Termite inspection but not qualified to do such an inspection and if he were insured as a home inspector would his E&O coverage cover him?

[A.D. Miller]

If the inspector held himself out as qualified to conduct a Termite inspection but not qualified to do such an inspection and if he were insured as a home inspector would his E&O coverage cover him?

RW: That depends on several things. Is licensing a prerequsite for conducting termite inspections in the inspector's area? Does his professional liability policy cover WDI inspections?

[Jim Luttrall]

My E&O specifically denies termite coverage. But then a separate license is required here. The answers lie withing each individual inspectors insurance document.

[Ron Bibler]

There is something wrong with this. For one he states that the building had tubes all over the wall framing and that a FUMIGATION will not fix things. You do not Fumigate a home for sub-termites. its a ground treatment.

Ive been inspection home as a Calif State lic. inspector for 30 years in So Calif and No. Calif. this is one of the most infested location in the Americas. I have never had one inspection that required a home to be RIPPED down to the foundation. A section of a wall but not a complete home. Anytime I've had a section of a wall that needed major repairs there was evidence of the infestation that was accessible and visible.

This is B.S. Something is not correct:mad:

Best

Ron

[A.D. Miller]

This is B.S. Something is not correct:mad:

RB: Most likely true.

[wayne soper]

If your wdi report stated that interior walls blocked inspection you are covered. But if they were up that high couldn't you see them at the sill plate?

[Raymond Wand]

No inspector is not licenced to do termite inspection.
Inspector does not have E&O.

If no licence and not qualified to do Termite inspection and "if" he did have insurance I believe he would be out of luck regardless.

[Ron Bibler]

No inspector is not licenced to do termite inspection.
Inspector does not have E&O.

If no licence and not qualified to do Termite inspection and "if" he did have insurance I believe he would be out of luck regardless.

No matter Its a B.S. see if there is a case fiel with your county or where ever you got this info. its B.S.

bEST

rON

[Raymond Wand]

Ron it just happened to early for court rendering.
I think this maybe the house as this inspectors area of work is not far from this house.

The Wellington Advertiser - Complete Article (http://www.wellingtonadvertiser.com/index.cfm?page=detail&itmno=3804)

[A.D. Miller]

Where is the good stuff when you need it?

[Ron Bibler]

Ron it just happened to early for court rendering.
I think this maybe the house as this inspectors area of work is not far from this house.

The Wellington Advertiser - Complete Article (http://www.wellingtonadvertiser.com/index.cfm?page=detail&itmno=3804)

THATS THE BIGGEST MOUND OF CRAP I HAVE EVER :eek: I don't known what to say.

What kind of wack jobs do you have up there on that board... I'm sorry My wife is from Canada. But come on... where is the science for this kind of information.

Demo the building because you will never kill the termites.:eek:

They may infest the landfill and then infest the world:eek:

This is just to much... Some one get a back hoe fast because its getting to deep...

Maybe BAGDAG BOB Can help me out with the words I'm try to come up with. L.O.L.

Best

Ron

[A.D. Miller]

This is just to much... Some one get a back hoe fast because its getting to deep...


RB: Sorry, I don't have boots that tall . . . this is a veritable mountain of feces!:eek:

[Ted Menelly]

If the inspector held himself out as qualified to conduct a Termite inspection but not qualified to do such an inspection and if he were insured as a home inspector would his E&O coverage cover him?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

That is the question.

NACHI standfards for termite inbspection ??????????????????????? Is there really such a thing that means anything ????????

Inside wall cavities ?????????????? (termites are found all the time after termite inspections in wall cavities) does not mean they were visible outside the wall cavities.

Will any insurance cover hime in the case where is can conduct :eek: but cannot conduct :eek: but he is qualified thru NACHI Standards :eek:

Sorry

This is just to deep to fathom (that was cute, huh)

[Raymond Wand]

So... even if he did have insurance it would likely fall outside the policy provisions for termite coverage ? Therefore his E&O policy is void? But wait, he is not insured anyway.., and either way it looks like his Goose is cooked. Hope he has a good lawyer.

[Dan Popoff]

O Brother!
I am a Lic 7a also an HI and member of said org.
No way!!
To my knowledge no wdo would in one infestation bring an entire structure down. Sections, yes but to level to foundation and start over, please. Oh to be a lawyer in that part of the world.

Dan

[Raymond Wand]

In Seltzer-Soberano v. Kogut 1999 CarswellOnt 1520 (Ont. Superior Court of Justice), Justice Wright said (at paragraph 6):

The usual house inspection is general in nature and is performed by a visual inspection. A house inspector cannot be held responsible for a problem which is not readily apparent by a reasonable visual inspection. A house inspector would be held to a different standard of responsibility if requested to respond to a specific question, i.e., "we want to know if there is any evidence of termites in this house?" If that specific question was asked of a house inspector, the inspector, unless expert in that area, would probably tell the proposed purchaser to consult a pest control company.

[Jerry Peck]

O Brother!
I am a Lic 7a also an HI and member of said org.
No way!!
To my knowledge no wdo would in one infestation bring an entire structure down. Sections, yes but to level to foundation and start over, please. Oh to be a lawyer in that part of the world.

Dan


Dan,

No one has stated it was done in one infestation.

What was stated was that ... HE MISSED ... whatever visible evidence was there ... presuming there was visible evidence there to be seen if only one looked hard enough.

IF there was no visible evidence, then he did not miss anything.

There simply is not enough information to know whether or not he missed it or there was no evidence visible.

Granted, I've seen A LOT of termite damage and infestation (I used to be a Certified Pest Control Operator) and after doing a number of inspection you pretty much know what to check for and look for as termites will eat out to the pain and leave the paint, but ... there is nothing to support the paint, so the paint 'sinks in' creating depressions in the paint and THAT is "visible" and, if you know about inspecting for termites, you are looking for that.

When you see 'wrinkled paint' you KNOW termites are in (or were) there, just probe and you will confirm your knowledge.

[Dan Popoff]

Correct Jerry. Based on the info on the post one is left to "guess". Thinking the pco needs to be called in the suit. Why would they make an outlandish reconmendation for treatment? In dealing with sub-termites, treatment needs to be done even if replacement (repair) is in order.

My two cents.
Dan

[John Kogel]

I think I can explain the newspaper article and the claim that the home needs to be demolished. There were no termites in southern Ontario until recently. They are thought to have arrived in Toronto in pallets and are spreading out from there. No wonder some people are freaking out, it's an invasion! :)

I feel bad for the HI, but he said he was capable to do an inspection for termites. Why was he asked to do a termite inspection? Because someone thought they were there, so there was evidence most likely.

I wonder if he could have refused payment at the end of the inspection, in other words "I did not find any, but perhaps an expert could", he would not be getting sued now. It's definitely better when you do find them.

[Raymond Wand]

John

Fyi.

Brownjohn vs. Pillar to Post

failure to identify termite infestation;http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=Brownjohn&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2003/2003bcpc2/2003bcpc2.html

[Jerry Peck]

CanLII - 2003 BCPC 2 (CanLII) (http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=Brownjohn&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2003/2003bcpc2/2003bcpc2.html)

[A.D. Miller]

CanLII - 2003 BCPC 2 (CanLII) (http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=Brownjohn&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2003/2003bcpc2/2003bcpc2.html)

JP: That just about sums up my picture of franchise HI operations.:D

[Raymond Wand]

Why do you think its called Pillage to Plunder? :D

[A.D. Miller]

Why do you think its called Pillage to Plunder? :D

RW: Nice!:o

[Raymond Wand]

....and to quote you A.D.


What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety he makes up in clarity ;) :)

I've never been known for my subtleties! :D

[Raymond Wand]

While cruising around the Frea Insurance site fwiw.

WDI / WDO

Wood destroying Insect and wood destroying organism coverage is available through FREA. Wood Destroying Insect means arthropod life which damages and can re-infest seasoned wood in a structure, namely, termites, carpenter ants, wood boring beetles, wood boring wasps, carpenter bees, powder post beetles, and old house borers and wood decaying fungi. To be eligible for coverage, a minimum of twenty-five (25) WDI/WDO inspections must have been performed by the inspector. The WDI/WDO policy does not cover any WDI/WDO treatment or mitigation services.

[A.D. Miller]

While cruising around the Frea Insurance site fwiw.


WDI / WDO
Wood destroying Insect and wood destroying organism coverage is available through FREA. Wood Destroying Insect means arthropod life which damages and can re-infest seasoned wood in a structure, namely, termites, carpenter ants, wood boring beetles, wood boring wasps, carpenter bees, powder post beetles, and old house borers and wood decaying fungi. To be eligible for coverage, a minimum of twenty-five (25) WDI/WDO inspections must have been performed by the inspector. The WDI/WDO policy does not cover any WDI/WDO treatment or mitigation services.






RW: Does that mean legally performed?:D

[Earnest Colwell]

Simple...if you are truly qualified, you would have filed a report, in that report would be canned disclaimers regarding the scope of inspection including visable and accessible areas. What you don't mention is whether or not the structure was on a raised foundation or cement slab. Never the less, if someone want's to sue you, it doesn't matter if you have insurance or not...it will still cost you. Regarding the tearing down of the structure...this is only one contractors opinion if he really is a contractor and he may be best friends with the home owner. Worry about it if the home owner actually follows through and get your own professional opinions.

My professional opinion...If you are not in the structural pest control industry, don't claim to be a professionally trained and qualified wood destroying orgainism inspector. Stick to what you are qualified to do or get educated.

[Bill Gosch]

This topic of who should offer the termite inspection in Ontario Canada is not clearly stated in any documents, Real Estate or ASHI. In the Toronto area (GTA) many realtors will clarify to the purchasers to have a Home Inspection and a Termite Inspection. Termites are very active in southern Ontario starting In Leamington, and sporadic infestation in Windsor recently. I do not claim, offer or mis-lead purchasers about termite inspections, this area should be covered by the agents as a seperate inspection industry i believe. I have not discovered any information as to who should offer this service to the buyer, is it the area realtor who knows what is happening in the area or the Home Inspector who only does a visual inspection? :mad: Help. This will be frustrating for inspectors till the shi_ hits the legal fan.

[Ken Amelin]

If you offer a "Wood Destroying Insect Infestation Report" as an additional service, It should be performed to a specific standard. That standard should be stated in your form of contract. (example: NPMA -33)

Since we peform other inspection services under different standards, it is in your best interest to also state in your contract - that no other terms or conditions shall apply.

That would clarify a lot of this confusion.

Just for the record. If that person did have insurance - I am sure the insurance compnay would not pay anything - They would find some way or point to some clause in their insurance contract to get out of it. :p

[Donald Bissex]

I'm beginning to believe that 9 times out of 10, if you start taking apart a house you will find termite or other WDI damage. Happened on my own house yesterday (1928 colonial in Massachusetts). After taking the vinyl and old cedar shingles off, termites had been under the house paper on a large portion of the sheathing (pine t&g). This week the sill will be exposed for further inspection. I've lived in the house 23 years and never saw a termite.

I have "concealed conditions" language in my HI reports and WDI reports (NPMA-33), but what do others write to make sure the buyer understands the potential risks without being an alarmist kook?