There may still be hope and change in the future

[Dan Harris]

YouTube - Americas Freedom - Tea Party Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHieqM1hKsg)

[Mitchell Toelle]

This does give one hope, doesn't it?

[A.D. Miller]

Just more flag-waving, drum-beating, BS conservative blather from someone who is young enough to know better.

However, I did like the little inadvertently added touch of the smoke blowing in the background. All conservatives should have that when they speak.:D

[Michael Larson]

Just more flag-waving, drum-beating, BS conservative blather from someone who is young enough to know better.

However, I did like the little inadvertently added touch of the smoke blowing in the background. All conservatives should have that when they speak.:DI'm glad to see it bother you that an eleven year old has more sense than some old inspector and can articulate her argument at 11 when you can't at ??

Maybe you can grow but at your age the brain cells may not accept change.

[Raymond Wand]

How come Americans pronounce Iraq as eye-raq, when it should be pronounced Ir-aq? :D

[Mitchell Toelle]

How come Americans pronounce Iraq as eye-raq, when it should be pronounced Ir-aq? :D

Actually Raymond, it's eee-rock. Can you try that? Still, most don't get it right.

[Jerry Peck]

How come Americans pronounce Iraq as eye-raq, when it should be pronounced Ir-aq? :D


Actually Raymond, it's eee-rock. Can you try that? Still, most don't get it right.


Neither is correct.

From various internet search sources:


George W. Bush, as we know, says (http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushvsbush.htm) "Rack." I was just thinking that people used to pronounce it differently before he became President. Sure enough, Bill Clinton said (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec98/clinton_12-16.html) "Rock." Linguist Geoff Nunberg avers (http://www-csli.stanford.edu/~nunberg/iraq.html) that "Rock" is slightly closer to the correct pronunciation (he says it's rawq).


There are at least four common ways English speakers say the word “Iraq,” including “Ee-RACK,” “Ih-ROCK,” “Eye-ROCK,” and “Uh-RACK.” Which is correct? Technically, none. The Q at the end of the word is, in Arabic, a back-of-the-throat sound that doesn’t exist in English. Linguists call it a “voiceless plosive” (don’t worry, there won’t be a quiz on this later). The R is a little rougher as well, so a native Arabic-speaker would say something like “Ihhhr-RAHCH.” It doesn’t roll easily off an American tongue. The closest we can come is probably “Ih-ROCK.” But is that officially correct? “There isn’t any reason why there should be one single standard way of pronouncing it, because it isn’t obvious from the spelling whether there’s one way,” says Bruce Paulson, a sensible professor of linguistics at the University of Minnesota. And while there’s a strong argument for staying faithful to the original Arabic, there’s also a natural American tendency to alter foreign words to sound less, well, foreign.


Anyway, however hard Americans try to approximate the pronunciations of Arabic names, what comes out of our mouths is going to be pretty remote from the real thing to Arab ears. If you were really going to get the name of the country right, you'd say something like "EE-rawq," with that gutteral 'q' that doesn't have any English equivalent. And you'd start it with an "ayn," an h-like sound that's pronounced even farther back in the throat. I've had two Arabic linguists try to give me tutelage in that sound, but I'm not to the point of being able to reproduce it on the radio.

[Ron Bibler]

Thats one smart little kid... I like to see little ones like that.

( Out of the mouths of babes ) Funny how GOD will use a little one to confound the so called wise among us...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Thats one smart little kid... I like to see little ones like that.

( Out of the mouths of babes ) Funny how GOD will use a little one to confound the so called wise among us...

Best

Ron

Sure seem a lot smarter than those who say god had any thing to do with it.

If god had any thing to do with smart people and dumb people, and if god were as some believe, there would be NO DUMB PEOPLE, but there are, which is proof that god is not all good, and therefore the god which some believe in does not exist as they believe THEIR god to exist.

[A.D. Miller]

I'm glad to see it bother you that an eleven year old has more sense than some old inspector and can articulate her argument at 11 when you can't at ??

Maybe you can grow but at your age the brain cells may not accept change.

ML: "Ar-tic-u-late", huh? Congratulations for working your way up to four-syllable grunts. Keep at it. Who knows, someday you may be able to speak one whole sentence based upon cohesive thought.

Nah.

[Michael Larson]

ML: "Ar-tic-u-late", huh? Congratulations for working your way up to four-syllable grunts. Keep at it. Who knows, someday you may be able to speak one whole sentence based upon cohesive thought.

Nah.OK. How about we just call you out for what you are:

agent provocateur

[A.D. Miller]

OK. How about we just call you out for what you are:

agent provocateur

ML: Moi?:eek:

[Ron Bibler]

Sure seem a lot smarter than those who say god had any thing to do with it.

If god had any thing to do with smart people and dumb people, and if god were as some believe, there would be NO DUMB PEOPLE, but there are, which is proof that god is not all good, and therefore the god which some believe in does not exist as they believe THEIR god to exist.


Jerry I did not say that GOD made her smart or others dumb.

My words were (Thats one smart little kid)

Then I stated that: ( Out of the mouths of babes ) Funny how GOD will use a little one to confound the so called wise among us...

And you step in it... yuuuuk :eek:

How ever he did say ( I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion )

I other words some are created for destruction and other he will have mercy on and bless them.

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry I did not say that GOD made her smart or others dumb.

No, you just tried to imply that god made her smarter than some others, and I am simply pointing out that god had nothing to do with anything, and that IF YOU THINK HE DID, ... THEN WHY make some dumb if your god is so good?

Do you not even get the opposing ends of the same argument that your god is in some way good, without accepting the same reasoning that in the same sense your god is NOT really that good at all.

YOU are that one who brought YOUR god into this tread, all I did was point out the fallacy in believing in something supposedly good which does just as many bad things.

Your later part of your response ... were you implying that somehow those who are born dumb did something wrong and deserved being born dumb like that?

I hear your gears turning in mud trying to figure out how to respond that your god is good, for doing bad things, to good people, who have not done anything bad to anyone ... :rolleyes:

YOU did start this with your mention of you god, so don't look to me to stop it, you need to be the one to stop it ... just like you started it. :rolleyes:

[Michael Larson]

Jerry's would have his god create all with equal abilities.:confused:

Sounds terribly boring and is in fact idolatry because he has made a god in an image as sees fit.

I hope God touches him before it is too late.

[Jerry Peck]

Sounds terribly boring and is in fact idolatry because he has made a god in an image as sees fit.

So ... boring is good?

I hope to be so boring one day.

Michael,

After all these times you still do not comprehend what you read, do you? Or is it that you simply do not read?

You have no idea how I believe, or what I believe in, other than that I believe that if 10% of the earth's population believes the other 90% of the population of the earth are none believers and need to be converted ... that there is a 100% chance that that 10% of the earth's population is wrong and that the other 90% are correct.

Of course, though, we now have 10% saying this is right, another 10% saying this is the only way, 5% saying all who do not believe as they do will die, 20% saying that their way is the only way, and ... you get the idea ... either they are all: 1) ALL RIGHT; 2) ALL WRONG.

I'm thinking that they are ALL ... :p :rolleyes: :D

[Ron Bibler]

So ... boring is good?

I hope to be so boring one day.

Michael,

After all these times you still do not comprehend what you read, do you? Or is it that you simply do not read?

You have no idea how I believe, or what I believe in, other than that I believe that if 10% of the earth's population believes the other 90% of the population of the earth are none believers and need to be converted ... that there is a 100% chance that that 10% of the earth's population is wrong and that the other 90% are correct.

Of course, though, we now have 10% saying this is right, another 10% saying this is the only way, 5% saying all who do not believe as they do will die, 20% saying that their way is the only way, and ... you get the idea ... either they are all: 1) ALL RIGHT; 2) ALL WRONG.

I'm thinking that they are ALL ... :p :rolleyes: :D


Jerry what you have gone and done is to make your self a god...

and then you judge GOD. As you have stated that GOD is not good.

But at the same time you forget what condition you are in.

1.have you ever told a lie ? if yes that makes you a lair

2.have you ever stolen anything ? if yes that makes you? thief

3.have you ever looked at someone with a lust full though ?
if yes that makes you a adulterer in your heart.

4.have you ever used “GOD” or “Jesus Christ” as a curse word ?
if yes that makes you a blasphemer.

So if one answers any of these yes then this is what one is.

a lair, a thief, an adulterer in the heart and a blasphemer.

Then you as a man in this condition judge GOD ? How odd...

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

No ones logic will save them no matter how clever they may find it.

Good luck with your plan Jerry.

[Steve Zabarylo]

Only adults have god and in as many flavors as their imaginations can invent. Children have awe, that magical land of the unexplained that gets driven out of them by their fundamentalist parents and older peers. Reason doesn't have all the answers, never had and probably never will. If you want to worship something then how about questions and a profound appreciation for the beauty of what you can perceive but never explain. No supernatural claptrap required.

[A.D. Miller]

Only adults have god and in as many flavors as their imaginations can invent. Children have awe, that magical land of the unexplained that gets driven out of them by their fundamentalist parents and older peers. Reason doesn't have all the answers, never had and probably never will. If you want to worship something then how about questions and a profound appreciation for the beauty of what you can perceive but never explain. No supernatural claptrap required.

SZ: Agreed, in spades.:cool:

[Jerry Peck]

Only adults have god and in as many flavors as their imaginations can invent. Children have awe, that magical land of the unexplained that gets driven out of them by their fundamentalist parents and older peers. Reason doesn't have all the answers, never had and probably never will. If you want to worship something then how about questions and a profound appreciation for the beauty of what you can perceive but never explain. No supernatural claptrap required.

I second Aaron's agreed, in spades too.

The same thing applies to racism: Racism is not passed on through genes, it is passed on by ignorant older people confusing and convincing innocent children of the older persons wrong doing is some how right.

The same also applies to bigotry, skin heads, white supremacists, anti-Semitism, and all the other evils done by so-called "zealots" for their so called god(s).

[Michael Larson]

Newsweek Declares White Babies to Be Racist (http://www.prisonplanet.com/newsweek-declares-white-babies-to-be-racist.html)


Moonbattery (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/09/newsweek_declar_1.html) (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7d0c7a3a-9ca4-11de-ab58-00144feabdc0.html)
Thursday, Sept 9th, 2009
If you’re Caucasian, don’t think you’re ever clean of the moonbat answer to original sin. According to Newsreek (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/09/newsweek_declar_1.html), even babies are racist.
http://www.akawilliam.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/newsweek_racist_baby-226x300.jpg
At the Children’s Research Lab at the University of Texas — located in liberal Austin, the Berkeley of the Southwest — Birgitte Vittrup attempted to measure how effective propaganda is at instilling multiculturalist ideology in small children. She found that despite parents’ progressive intentions and the homogenous political correctness of everything they see on TV, children 5 to 7 years old tended to consider blacks but not whites to be “mean.”

[A.D. Miller]

If you’re Caucasian, don’t think you’re ever clean of the moonbat answer to original sin. According to Newsreek (http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/09/newsweek_declar_1.html), even babies are racist.


ML: Yes, that is "Newsreek" (your spelling, not mine - ask Freud why you wrote it), yet another Centrist pseudo news outlet reporting on something that may or may not have been written in Austin: 26 square miles surrounded by reality.

My, but your sources are authoritative!

Even if it were true - and I do not for one second believe it to be - I am not quite Caucasian enough to believe it. So then, please keep your white-bread propaganda to yourself - cracker boy.:D

[Jerry Peck]

children 5 to 7 years old tended to consider blacks but not whites to be “mean.”


Gosh ... when my two girls were that age ... way back then ... I never observed that with them or any of their friends, and, in fact, it was THE WHITE KIDS who where "mean", at their parents urging. "I'm WHITE, therefore I am ENTITLED to what you have." - coming from their parents.

Then, years later, with my wife's two girls, the same exact thing happened. It was the WHITE kids whose WHITE parents taught them to be that way.

Now, years later, with our granddaughter, it seems to be THE SAME THING all over again.

Why is it that WHITE parents think they are entitled to more just because they are WHITE?

That is the same feeling WHITE supremacists say.

And you are defending it, which makes you ... a white supremacist? :rolleyes:

[Michael Larson]

Jerry, none of my post above was written by me. Don't tell Aaron;)

You fail to see the irony of the Newsweek article after you posted that racism is not genetic.

Life is short Jerry. Learn to laugh, especially at yourself.

[A.D. Miller]

Jerry, none of my post above was written by me. Don't tell Aaron;)

You fail to see the irony of the Newsweek article after you posted that racism is not genetic.

Life is short Jerry. Learn to laugh, especially at yourself.

ML: There are, I believe, certain maladies, some adversely affecting the mental capacities of those beleaguered by them, which are in fact of genetic origin. You sir, certainly have first hand experience with this.:D

[Michael Larson]

ML: There are, I believe, certain maladies, some adversely affecting the mental capacities of those beleaguered by them, which are in fact of genetic origin. You sir, certainly have first hand experience with this.:DDon't you just hate it when your wrong?:p

[Raymond Wand]

Michael

Have you ever considered being a minister YOU certainly have a knack for preaching. And of course we know you don't have any racist animosities because you are holier than thou! :D

[Ralph Stakely]

Be careful of what you ask for...

If you don't know GOD, don't make stupid
remarks!

A United States Marine was attending some college
courses between assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and
Afghanistan .

One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the ACLU.

One day the professor shocked the class when he came in he looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, 'God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes.'

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, 'Here I am God.. I'm still waiting.'

It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Marine got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him,
knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold.

The Marine went back to his seat and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked, stunned, and sat there looking on in silence.

The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Marine
and asked, 'What the heck is the matter with you? Why did you do that?'

The Marine calmly replied, 'God was too busy today protecting American
soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid stuff and act like an
idiot.

So, He sent me.'

[Steve Zabarylo]

Be careful of what you ask for...

. . . . .and asked, 'What the heck is the matter with you? Why did you do that?'

The Marine calmly replied, 'God was too busy today protecting American
soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid stuff and act like an
idiot.

So, He sent me.'

WTF? Another fine example of a stunned moron imagining himself to be the righteous agent of some imaginary friend in the sky. That's how we get planes landing in tall buildings and moronic (or demonic) heads of state sacrificing more than a million Iraqi and American lives over imaginary WMDs. You flogging that one off on your kids along with Santa and the easter bunny there Ralph?

[Ralph Stakely]

Ouch!!!

Musta hit a nerve there...

Name calling??
Moron??
Is that all you can sink to.?. Oh, sorry, I see that you are already there. When y'all have nothing constructive to say, you resort to profanity and name calling. So sorry that you non-believers can't carry on a civil debate. If you think I'm mistaken, just check back through the posts (including other threads) and see who resorts to attempts to debase others' faith and beliefs. It's sad.. Makes me pity y'all. Really I do. I care about people and their welfare. I don't like to see anyone suffer.



If you will stop and REALLY think about it for a second, you will realize that all, yes all, are seeking something that is greater than ones self. That is why we have so many "religions" in the world. Everyone worships something, (money, rocks, trees, sun, moon, SELF, ..you name it, someone worships it) The difference is, mine is not a religion, it's a relationship with my God. You don't believe in my God, that's your perogative. Believe as you wish, I cannot and will not try to force anything down your throat. Yes, I know there are "religious zealots" who browbeat and try to scare others into submission. (That goes for both sides of the fence.)

Again, if you will check, and really read, all previous posts that I have made on this subject, you will see that I have NEVER tried to force anyone to believe in my God. I have stated my opinions of what I believe and why I believe what I do. It is not my "job" to convert anyone. I have no power to do so. My "job" so to speak, is to deliver the message. What happens after that is up to you and the Holy Spirit.

You have every right in the world to be wrong. You say,"What if you( I ) am wrong?" (I'm not) But nothing lost.
I say, "What if you are wrong? What then?" Eternity lost.

Think about it.

The eternal results is what counts. Where will you spend eternity? That is the question. You say there is "no eternity" nothing after this death?? We are born, live a short life, die, and thats it??? What is the meaning of life? Why are we here? To torment each other or to love and help each other?? OK. We shall see.

Yes my Friend "in the sky" is watching over me (and you).
Yes, The Easter bunny, Santa Claus, and The Green Hornet are all real. Just ask any 2 year old kid. :)

You have a great life here on this little world.

The best to you and yours.

Ralph

[Dan Harris]

Geeeez guys :) Do you think there is any hope that this topic will change, I really hope this site does not turn to all wacko stuff all the time, like the other open to the public HI site. :D

[Steve Zabarylo]

[quote=Ralph Stakely;101323]Ouch!!!

Musta hit a nerve there...

Name calling??
Moron??
Is that all you can sink to.?. Oh, sorry, I see that you are already there. When y'all have nothing constructive to say, you resort to profanity and name calling. So sorry that you non-believers can't carry on a civil debate.

RS My comments were not aimed at you or what you believe, that's none of my business. I was referring to the actions of the "hero" depicted in your "story". By any standard an assault was committed that should result in a criminal charge. No one has the right to commit an act considered criminal by the laws of the land because they feel their system of belief condones it. Other belief systems condone genital mutilation and honour killing and I'm sure they have fine stories about that too.

Kids generally seem to manage getting past their tooth fairy years but not enough are encouraged to develop the critical thinking skills to help them see the lie in the "that's the way it is stories" until they run afoul of the law. Pointing out the absurdity of your story is at least as constructive as your telling it. I do accept that the profanity and name tossing were not warranted and in fact detracted from the argument.

This is supposed to be a technical forum so I will stop my rebuttals if you will leave your statements of faith for some other venue. It is kinda fun though after spending 3 hours this evening in a class room having building code "preached" to us.

[A.D. Miller]

Isn't Ralph the guy you talk to when you've had one too many bottles of Boone's Farm?:D

Seriously Ralph boy, you are truly damaged goods, like 80% of the population here. That is why we have lost our place in the list of nations that matter. Your "God" does not seem to have been able to stop it either. Omnipotent, huh? Maybe there is some cosmic pharmacy dispensing Viagra for limp saviors. I'll ask around while you read this:

Answers to the Pop Quiz of Franklynch.org (http://www.fluni.com/answers_to_the_pop_quiz.htm)

[Ralph Stakely]

Steve Z.

Good thoughtful reply.
This IS the "non-technical" section of the forum. Says so right above this section. Seems all topics are acceptable, except for Christians or other religious opinions. Profanity, bad jokes, objectionable pictures/cartoons, political bashing, (both sides) demeaning name calling, etc. are just fine. (Just don't profess to be a Christian. As you can see by Mr. Miller's post.)

Yes, striking the professor was an act of assault. I, too, do not condone physical abuse of any sort. But, that was not the point being made. BTW, I did not write the "story." I doubt if it is even true. Just a point to indicate that God works in many ways. So be careful what you ask for.

I appreciate you "allowing" me to believe as I will. The keyword here is "will." And I respect your right to believe as you will. I have no animosity toward anyone. I just want all to be happy here for their short time on Earth and happiness and joy after leaving here.

So, as I stated before, have a good life and the best to you.

BTW. My "membership" date should read Mar 2001.. Seems Brian "re-enlisted" us when he change his format a couple years ago.

I used to be a regular poster until I was told to take my "moronic, religious nutcase, weak willed, kool-aid drinking, stupidas., damaged goods, etc, self to another forum that gives a sh.t. And you ,along with a few others, said it yourself, "This is no place for religion." WHY??

Ralph

[Raymond Wand]

Ralph

Don't leave, and I liked the story you posted. AD's tongue is to big for his cavern, it sometimes slips out and he trips on it. It seems he likes piss on his cornflakes much of the time, he seems to have acquired a taste for it. ;)

[Ralph Stakely]

"Mr." (term used loosely) Miller,

You just had to make the sarcastic remark about my name didn't you. Good way to start off a post. Yes, I saw the "big grin." Makes no difference, still an insult. But, I consider the source.

So, I'm "damaged goods?" How so? Because I don't drink the kool-aid that you do? Because I believe in a God that loves and cares for people?
Your own statement just proves my point. You said, "along with the 80% of the population here." So I guess your 20% non-believers are right and the 80% are wrong.. Hmmm, gives me pause to stop and consider that.

You also said, if God is omnipotent He could "stop" the problems going on in this country.
Wellll, young man, God does not force His will upon anyone. As a whole, our nation has turned away from Him.. He has not turned His back on us.
Yes, I read the "pop-quiz" and answers. You also noted (I hope) that the "downward" spiral started in the late 50's and early 60's. Guess what, Mr. Miller, this is just about the time that God got kicked out of our schools and any public arenas. He said, "I will honor your request and step back. I will leave you to your own way. When you want me back, I'll be here awaiting your call."

Again, you are free to make all the mistakes you want. That is your right that we still have (at the present.) Hopefully, we will still be able to openly state our opinions. But, if you (and a few others) had their way, Christians would not have that right.

I've seen and heard that Christians have no tolerance for others. Next time you say that, look in the mirror. If you had tolerance, you would not demean someone just because of their beliefs.. Practice what you preach, Brother.

So, now how many names can you call me this time?? I bet I've heard them all.

Rest easy... I know I do..

RES

edited for typo.. My bad

[Steve Zabarylo]

Hey ADM, we need something to gush about as an aside when we answer technical questions. How about membership in Dave Lettermans Hung Jury Club. You know, jury a reference to the number 12 and their members have members of a dimension that relates to that number! Hang in there bud!

[A.D. Miller]

Mr." (term used loosely) Miller,

RS: I can imagine that any English term would be used loosely by you.


So, I'm "damaged goods?" How so?

RS: Because you live in a dream world which dates back a few thousand years.


Because I believe in a God that loves and cares for people?

RS: Show me your "god".


So I guess your 20% non-believers are right and the 80% are wrong..

RS: Suck it up and live with it.


God does not force His will upon anyone.

RS: You obviously have not read your own "good book" if you believe that load of crap.


As a whole, our nation has turned away from Him..

RS: If that were indeed true, we would not be having this discussion.


Hopefully, we will still be able to openly state our opinions. But, if you (and a few others) had their way, Christians would not have that right.

RS: While it is true that you do have a right do believe in any sort of inane idea that you can dredge up from your psyche, it does not give you the right to proselytize with impunity. Your right to practice your quaint religion ends where my ears start. Keep it to yourself. I do not want to hear about it. And keep it out of the government, where it does not belong.



I've seen and heard that Christians have no tolerance for others. Next time you say that, look in the mirror. If you had tolerance, you would not demean someone just because of their beliefs.. Practice what you preach, Brother.


RS: You attribute someone else's ideas to me. I never said that Christians were intolerant, though I certainly believe that they are indeed not just intolerant, but also bigoted, ovine, anachronistic, irrational, obtuse, sanctimonious, self-righteous, hypocritical, and disingenuous . . . shall I go on?

Oh yes, let me add to that - dangerous. Just as dangerous as the morons with bombs strapped to their asses, maybe even more so. Both are stupid people living in another century acting out their obscene fantasies at the expense of rational, thinking men.

You may have the inalienable right, but I do not feel that you deserve to breathe the same air as I do. You have not earned that right. Take responsibility for your life, quit deferring your duties to a non-existent deity and you might someday gain the respect of folks like me. Until then you are just taking up much-needed space.

[Rick Cantrell]

Aaron
Why would anyone (Christian,Jew, Muslim, Atheist, or other) even care if they "...might someday gain the respect of folks like me.".
You have made 2440+ post on this forum, and of that 2440, only a handful or so were to offer help to someone. The vast majority of your post are critical of others. Not critical in a corrective manner.

You resort to insult, name calling, and slander when trying to make a point. Such as, but not limited to:
" but also bigoted, ovine, anachronistic, irrational, obtuse, sanctimonious, self-righteous, hypocritical, and disingenuous"
The point is, you show no respect for anyone, why should anyone show respect to you, and why would anyone even care what you think? They don't. People only care what you think, when you care what they think.

"I do not feel that you deserve to breathe the same air as I do. You have not earned that right"
What words of wisdom you come up with.


By the way, Self-righteous, is someone that believes they are righteous by their own thoughts and actions, without need of guidance or intervention from anyone, (God, Jesus, Mohammad, Bible, Koran, etc).

[A.D. Miller]

Why would anyone (Christian,Jew, Muslim, Atheist, or other) even care if they "...might someday gain the respect of folks like me.".


RC: They would not, and that is the problem with them. They (or their deities) already have all of the answers. So then, a discourse of any import is out of the question.



You have made 2440+ post on this forum, and of that 2440, only a handful or so were to offer help to someone. The vast majority of your post are critical of others. Not critical in a corrective manner.


RC: That's your opinion. Categorize each one in an Excel spreadsheet; send it to me; I'll make that decision.



You resort to insult, name calling, and slander when trying to make a point. Such as, but not limited to:
" but also bigoted, ovine, anachronistic, irrational, obtuse, sanctimonious, self-righteous, hypocritical, and disingenuous"


RC: Telling the truth is a hard job, but someone has to do it.



The point is, you show no respect for anyone, why should anyone show respect to you, and why would anyone even care what you think? They don't. People only care what you think, when you care what they think.


RC: Obviously it peaked your interest enough to reply. And your last statement is just pure BS. There are lots of folks on this earth who have things to say that interest me, not one of which would be excited about what I have to say about it.




"I do not feel that you deserve to breathe the same air as I do. You have not earned that right"


RC: Until now I might have thought otherwise, but that applies to you as well.



What words of wisdom you come up with.

RC: Agreed.




By the way, Self-righteous, is someone that believes they are righteous by their own thoughts and actions, without need of guidance or intervention from anyone, (God, Jesus, Mohammad, Bible, Koran, etc)


RC: Actually, it means narrow-mindedly moralistic, and you appear to be just that.

[Ralph Stakely]

Miller.

You WILL meet my God soon enough.. Be EXTREMELY careful what you wish for..

You said I should, "Read your Bible"".. I have.. evidently you haven't. Try it sometime. Perhaps you can show me where God forced Himself on anyone..

Respect is earned, not demanded.. You have a long way to go to earn anyone's respect.. When you dig yourself a hole and can't get out.. wise people stop digging.

Yep, I've heard'em all.. You'll have to do better than that to "get my goat."

It would be funny, if you weren't so pitiful.

Take care of yourself.. Because even God will reach the point of "turning you over to your reprobate mind and allow you go your evil ways."



To Rick Cantrell,
Couldn't have said it better myself. But I guess you know you have opened yourself up to Miller's rants and rages. Good luck.

RES

[A.D. Miller]

You WILL meet my God soon enough.. Be EXTREMELY careful what you wish for..


RS: Don't attempt to threaten me with your backwater religious mumbo-jumbo. That is really rich.



You said I should, "Read your Bible"".. I have.. evidently you haven't. Try it sometime. Perhaps you can show me where God forced Himself on anyone..


RS: I read your "good book" hundreds of times as a child under threat of severe beatings. I memorized much of it under the same sort of arrangement. You can tell me nothing of your "good book" that I do not already know.



Respect is earned, not demanded.. You have a long way to go to earn anyone's respect.. When you dig yourself a hole and can't get out.. wise people stop digging.


RS: The very last thing I desire in this life is to be respected by human refuse like you. I have not dug myself into anything, but if I had, I am perfectly capable of digging my way back out. Count on it.



Take care of yourself.. Because even God will reach the point of "turning you over to your reprobate mind and allow you go your evil ways."


RS: Your "god" exists only in your squirming little mind. If you could only see fit to keep him bottled up in there the world would be a much better place in which to live.

[Rick Cantrell]

Quote:

"I do not feel that you deserve to breathe the same air as I do. You have not earned that right"

RC: Until now I might have thought otherwise, but that applies to you as well.

Sorry you feel that way.

And thank you for your reply

[Ralph Stakely]

Ah Hah!!!! I see.. !! You have allowed an insight into why your thinking is so warped.

The truth has been revealed.

You are rebelling against everything that you have ever been taught. Just because you "feel" that you were forced to read the Bible by your "moronic, selfrighteous" adult authority figures, you are now rebelling against all or anything that "requires" you to use rational thinking to see the real world around you. Not to even mention the spiritual side of it. You are in the worst state of denial that I have seen in my entire 66 years on this tiny innnoculous speck of dust in the entire realm of things.

You are so self engrossed that you can't see the trees for the forest. Your mind is so distorted by your perceived injustices against you, that anyone with an opinion differing from your's is "human refuse," not deserving to even breathe the same air that you breathe.

No "attempted" threats were made against you. Just the truth, which you are so pitifully trying to deny.. IF you have "really read" the Bible as you say you have, then you know better.. "The truth shall set you free.""

You should seek profession help..

May God have mercy on your soul.


BTW.. You do not have to copy and post what I have said to reply. I know what I said and you are wasting Brian's bandwidth.

[Rick Cantrell]

Aaron
You said "that is the problem with them. They (or their deities) already have all of the answers. So then, a discourse of any import is out of the question."

An honest response, says a lot in a few words.
I'm unable to put into words what I would like to say, so I'll just say; there are enough lessons in that to last a month of Sundays.

[Jerry Peck]

Ralph and Rick,

Take your god rantings and bible thumping, etc., elsewhere.

This IS NOT a "religious forum" ... and it if were, YOU WOULD LIKELY be in the minority, just like YOU ARE IN THE REAL WORLD.

[Rick Cantrell]

"Take your god rantings and bible thumping, "

Jerry, seems like we had this talk before.
And just like then, SHOW ME.

"This IS NOT a "religious forum" "

Jerry you are right, this is not a religious forum.
All should recognize that, and not post their beliefs and/or dis-beliefs.
This is just not the proper place for that.

[A.D. Miller]

The truth has been revealed.

RS: You would not know the truth if it bit you in the ass.:D

[Ralph Stakely]

Miller...

DIG< DIG,, getting deeper..


Peck.
I wondered how long it would be before you jumped in and "TRIED" to censor this "non-technical" section of the board.. It is not YOUR place to tell others what , when, when, and how they can say anything...

Don't you get it?? You donot own, run , or control this site.


I believe his name is Brian..

If he tells me to take it somewhere else, I will expect any and all posts not directly relating to technical inspection issues to receive the same treatment..

RE

[Jerry Peck]

"Take your god rantings and bible thumping, "

Jerry, seems like we had this talk before.
And just like then, SHOW ME.

Rick,

You are correct, I read your posts and those of Aaron and Richard S. and mixed the comments of you and Richard S. together.

That had to have been due to MY NOT READING what I was reading (which is what I frequently tell other to make sure they do, and this time it's my foot in my mouth, and even mustard does not make it taste good). :o


"This IS NOT a "religious forum" "

Jerry you are right, this is not a religious forum.
All should recognize that, and not post their beliefs and/or dis-beliefs.
This is just not the proper place for that.

That is what I am always pointing out when someone bring up their god and how great she is.

Everyone's religious beliefs are best kept off this forum.

There are some here who try to throw in references to their beliefs whenever they get a chance, which is not what this board is for, and Ron B. is one of the people who does that.

[Jerry Peck]

STAKELY.

It never ceases to amaze me that some people, like you, are so insistent on making sure that everyone else thinks like them, and when other think differently, those people get mad.

No, that sure is a real christian thing to do and a real christian way to act and respond, isn't it? :rolleyes:

To the contrary, it exposes your lack of faith because you want all others to be like you, making you therefore acceptable to them in some way.

*I* have the same right to point out your fallacies as *YOU* have to point out what you consider to be those of Aaron, except that *YOU* think it is okay for you do to so but not okay for anyone else to do so - including *ME*.

Yet another fine example of your lack of true christian values, principles, and actions. :rolleyes:

[Ralph Stakely]

Peck,
Mad??? Me??/ Nah.. Just frustrated because you NEVER answer a simple question..

I asked you< "Who owns and controls this site??" HUH who??
You??? Nope.. !!



I?? ME?? Wants every one to believe as I do?? Don't think I'm always the one going off on tangents, calling names and telling them how stupid they are when they disagree with you..

How can someone that so loudly shouts atheism even know what and how a Christian should or should not act??

It's ok for you to "preach" the "religion of NO religion" but not ok for someone to even mention their beliefs... What a hypocrit!!!!

Yes, I know we have had this conversation before and I see that your heart is even harder than before..

Take a deep breath, Brother, eternity is a looong time..

Sorry, ole Buddy, but it's my Christian duty to spread the good News of the Gospel and hope that your hard heart is touched. And, you are not going to stop me. Not today, not tomorrow.

May God have mercy on your soul. (yes, you do have one, no matter how much you think otherwise.)

OK> Lower yourself a few more notches,,
Call me all the names you wish. I count it as a blessing for doing my duty.. It's up to you to decide what you want to do with it..

Brian H.
If you do not want "Religion" discussed on "YOUR" forum, you may delete this thread. If and when I return and this thread is deleted, I will "take the hint." I will continue to express my beliefs and convictions where every I find the venue. If I am banned from the board because of my beliefs, so be it..

Ralph Stakely
Adopted son of God Brother of Jesus Christ.
God's will be done.

I love you Jerry Peck..

[Ted Menelly]

WTF? Another fine example of a stunned moron imagining himself to be the righteous agent of some imaginary friend in the sky. That's how we get planes landing in tall buildings and moronic (or demonic) heads of state sacrificing more than a million Iraqi and American lives over imaginary WMDs. You flogging that one off on your kids along with Santa and the easter bunny there Ralph?


Santa????????? Easter Bunny?????? What are you trying to say???

Don't even try to tell me there is no Santa nd Easter Bunny!

That was the funny stuff.

But for the real stuff.

" heads of state sacrificing more than a million Iraqi and American lives over imaginary WMDs"

Are we actually still talking about imaginary WMDs

The Iraqu war was inevitable. If it was not Bush it would hav been Obama or the next in line.

Back to the Easter Bunny. You cannot be serious. I love Santa and the Easter Bunny.

Can you really be so serious in life to try and dismiss these guys.

Oh I get it. Your fantasies must pertain to Football players being someone or something other than an overgrown boy playing hero chasing an odd shaped ball around or someone other than Brad pit jumping his wifes bones dreaming it was you.

Fantasies?

Nothing wrong with fantasies. Some folks just have different fantasies than others.

[Jerry Peck]

Sorry, ole Buddy, but it's my Christian duty to spread the good News of the Gospel

It is your christian duty to RESPECT all other human beings, even those who do not dress like you, look like you, or think like you - it is not your christian duty to irritate others by trying to convince they your imaginations are real.

That is what crazy people do.

[Ralph Stakely]

Jerry ole Buddy,, You don't love me anymore???

Dang, I might just cry.

Wow!! Nice retort..
So now I'm crazy. Ok. Might be the case.

Respect??
I respect you enough to "irritate" you till the day you die, if it will keep you from going to Hell for eternity.. So live with it.. Or stop reading what I say. Your choice..

"Me thinks you protest too much." Am i getting to you?? Getting under your skin?? Making you think?? Evidently or you wouldn't be so adamant about trying to put me down.

I still have no answer..

WHO OWNS THIS BOARD??????

Love in Christ
Ralphie Baby ( as you have called me previously)

Are we having fun yet??

I am..

[A.D. Miller]

Are we having fun yet??

I am..


Simple perverted pleasures for simple perverted minds.

[Michael Larson]

It is your christian duty to RESPECT all other human beings, even those who do not dress like you, look like you, or think like you - it is not your christian duty to irritate others by trying to convince they your imaginations are real.

That is what crazy people do.No disrespect intended.

1 Corinthians 1:18-21

The Wisdom of God

18For the word of the cross is (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1&#37;20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28382A))foolishness to (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28382B))those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28382C))the power of God. 19For it is written,
"(D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28383D))I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE."
20(E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28384E))Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of (F (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28384F))this age? Has not God (G (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28384G))made foolish the wisdom of (H (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28384H))the world?
21For since in the wisdom of God (I (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28385I))the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, (J (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28385J))God was well-pleased through the (K (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28385K))foolishness of the message preached to (L (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28385L))save those who believe.

[David Nice]

1 Corinthians 6:2
Or (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John12:31;1Cor1:27;6:2;11:32;James4:4&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28470A))do you not know that (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John12:31;1Cor1:27;6:2;11:32;James4:4&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28470B))the saints will judge (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John12:31;1Cor1:27;6:2;11:32;James4:4&version=NASB#cen-NASB-28470C))the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

[Jerry Peck]

MATTHEW 7:1-5:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Oh ye who think thee is of faith, yet cast hypocritical judgment upon others those who dare to think differently and question thy faith, thy shalt cast thy wrath down upon thyself.

[Michael Larson]

MATTHEW 7:1-5:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Oh ye who think thee is of faith, yet cast hypocritical judgment upon others those who dare to think differently and question thy faith, thy shalt cast thy wrath down upon thyself.Very good Jerry.

Now as it is with any thing else you read, do you understand the context?

Who is speaking?
Who is being spoken to?
What is the occasion?
What is the meaning of the speaker?
What is the underlying principle?
What is the application as applied to yourself?

[Jerry Peck]

Michael,

I do understand it, AND IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE ... including you, Ron, Ralph, and others.

[Ron Bibler]

MATTHEW 7:1-5:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Oh ye who think thee is of faith, yet cast hypocritical judgment upon others those who dare to think differently and question thy faith, thy shalt cast thy wrath down upon thyself.

OK Jerry this is the fun part. That Verse gets a lot of use.

So let me pose it this way...:D

Who made you god to say the we can't not Judge someone or thing ? L.O.L.

Or imply of judge that my Judgment is hypocritical ? :D

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Ron,

Apparently you did not read what that says.

Try reading it again, then look in the mirror - your questions should all be answered there.

[Andrew Christel]

Very inspirational, And how ever you pronounce Iraq! here it is just another four letter word.

[Raymond Wand]

Boy there are sure a lot of cranky, opinionated posters here lately. Maybe its the time of month or a seasonal affliction, end of summer, end of bar-b-que season, kids back to school, economy. Hmmmm....:rolleyes:

[Rick Cantrell]

Who The #%&*@#! you calling CRANKY
:)

[Michael Larson]

Michael,

I do understand it, AND IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE ... including you, Ron, Ralph, and others.It is clear from your use of it that you don't.

Try studying the bible instead of using it as a club.

[Dan Harris]

Who The #%&*@#! you calling CRANKY
:)


That 11 year old girls speach sure got a lot of old farts fired up.:D :D

[Jerry Peck]

It is clear from your use of it that you don't.

Michael,

As usual, and as always, you are wrong again.


Try studying the bible instead of using it as a club.

I did for many years. My father is a retired minister (went into that after having been an electrical contractor for a long time), have been around religion all my life, have seen so many of the "So-Called Christians" show up on Sunday only to screw everyone the rest of the week that it only makes one puke at the thought of it.

I see the same senses, talking, writing, actions, and bravado here on this board from the "So-Called" christians.

One of the few on this board I respect for that is Scott P., he believes and understands that he does not need to try to bring it all the time to affront others here.

Others here make it a point to bring it up whenever they can, and for those, there is no respect in that department.

[A.D. Miller]

Others here make it a point to bring it up whenever they can, and for those, there is no respect in that department.


JP: None from this quarter either.

[Michael Larson]

I did for many years. My father is a retired minister (went into that after having been an electrical contractor for a long time), have been around religion all my life, have seen so many of the "So-Called Christians" show up on Sunday only to screw everyone the rest of the week that it only makes one puke at the thought of it.Then either you were a lousy student or he was a lousy teacher.

The passage you quoted is not hard to understand when taken in context of what is going on what lesson is actually being taught.

Hint: It is about one particular type of individual and his judging.

[A.D. Miller]

The whole history of these books (i.e. the Gospels) is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills. - Letter of Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, January 24, 1814.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. - Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787.

The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God, like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs. -Thomas Jefferson, Works, Vol. IV, p. 360.

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man - Thomas Jefferson.

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816

When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it.- John Adams, from Rufus K Noyes, Views of Religion

Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it. - John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816

God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.- John Adams, "this awful blasphemy" that he refers to is the myth of the Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of Religion

I can go on like this until the Hann runs completely out of bandwidth.:D

[Jerry Peck]

Then either you were a lousy student or he was a lousy teacher.

Seems to me that the only lousy student here is you and the only lousy teacher(s) was whoever you learned from.

Possibly related to the people I knew who professed to be very religious and very christian and that if you did not believe in their religion (yes, THEIR religion) and if you did not attend their church (yes, that one and only church) in which THEIR religion was taught, you were a sinner would would be condemned to hell.

Which, when you think about it, is only the same thing all christians believe, only on a more confined scale, making all christians and believers in only their one god as being the one god just a slightly different variation of those people.

There are some religions who believe in their god and accept your belief in your different god, but christians seem to think that they, and only they, know the only one real god.

That's like little kids believing that the entire world is what consists of 'on their block' because 'that is what they know'.

Kind of sad, really, once you understand the overall religious scope of the world.

As, I believe it was Ted, put it once a while back: If you only believe in your one god, you are 99.99&#37; atheist because there are 1000 gods or more for the 1000 or more religions out there (I know, I worded it differently, but the same meaning is there).

[A.D. Miller]

If you only believe in your one god, you are 99.99% atheist because there are 1000 gods or more for the 1000 or more religions out there


JP: I can certainly say that ML is 99.99% superfluous.:D

[A.D. Miller]

Thought I had better throw in a few more, in case ML did not recognize the founding fathers . . .

Creationists make it sound like a ‘theory’ is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night — Isaac Asimov

I don’t believe in God. My god is patriotism. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life. — Andrew Carnegie

All thinking men are atheists. — Ernest Hemingway

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches. — Benjamin Franklin

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. — George Bernard Shaw

Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile. — Kurt Vonnegut

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. — Frank Lloyd Wright

Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. — Denis Diderot

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. — Samuel Clemens

The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life. — Sigmund Freud

The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church. — Ferdinand Magellan

Not only is there no god, but try getting a plumber on weekends. — Woody Allen

It’s an incredible con job when you think about it, to believe something now in exchange for something after death. Even corporations with their reward systems don’t try to make it posthumous. — Gloria Steinem

[Jerry Peck]

Founding Fathers on Religion (http://antiwarrepublicans.com/foundingfathers.aspx)

[Ron Bibler]

Jerry you and Bagdad Bob are fun I must say... I do get a kick out of you 2...:D

Jesus said if you believe in your heart that he is GOD You will be saved. Not in your head but in your heart.

You and Bagdad Bob have your belief's set in your heads and in your hearts...

No man has a free well. for the will of a man is directed by his thinking not his will. So a mans will is lock up and healed captive by his thinking. Any man can be deceived at any point in his life. We are all subject to deception.

Every man thinks in his head he is a good person and deceives him self in his own pride. What is true is that Every man on the face of the earth is a lair, a thief, an adulterer in there heart and a blasphemer. But men can not look
in God's mirror and admit these facts So he deceives him self one more time day after day... I'm not so bad. I'm a good person:D

If a man can look at himself in God's mirror and see he is blind naked and dead in his sin... And cry out to GOD at that point A man can find grace form GOD and forgiveness. as Jesus said your shall known the truth and the truth shall set you free. In another place he said my sheep hear my voice and fallow after me.

Believe these facts or not they still stands. If you have ever told a lie. Your a Lire.
If you have ever stoled anything. Even a paper clip your a thief.

By our own words we are what we are...

God understands us better then we think he does. Thats why Jesus died for us. Because we could not save our selfs.

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Thats why Jesus died for us.

As did his brothers Juan, Julio, Jorge.

By the way, Jesus is pronounced Hay-Zeus or Hey-Zeus.

[Ron Bibler]

As did his brothers Juan, Julio, Jorge.

By the way, Jesus is pronounced Hay-Zeus or Hey-Zeus.


Its all in your head Jerry...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Its all in your head Jerry...

Ron,

You are a good example of what is being talked about, and why this stuff keeps coming up.

[Ron Bibler]

Ron,

You are a good example of what is being talked about, and why this stuff keeps coming up.

No Jerry I just pointed out these facts...

No man has a free well. for the will of a man is directed by his thinking not his will. So a mans will is lock up and healed captive by his thinking. Any man can be deceived at any point in his life. We are all subject to deception.

Every man thinks in his head he is a good person and deceives him self in his own pride. What is true is that Every man on the face of the earth is a lair, a thief, an adulterer in there heart and a blasphemer. But men can not look
in God's mirror and admit these facts So he deceives him self one more time day after day... I'm not so bad. I'm a good person...

These are facts...

Best

Ron

[Rick Cantrell]

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America (http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html)
The signers of the Declaration of Independence were a profoundly intelligent, religious and ethically-minded group. Four of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were current or former full-time preachers, and many more were the sons of clergymen. Other professions held by signers include lawyers, merchants, doctors and educators. These individuals, too, were for the most part active churchgoers and many contributed significantly to their churches both with contributions as well as their service as lay leaders. The signers were members of religious denominations at a rate that was significantly higher than average for the American Colonies during the late 1700s.

" I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men."
Benjamin Franklin
The religion of Benjamin Franklin, founding father (http://www.adherents.com/people/pf/Benjamin_Franklin.html)

[Michael Larson]

You can rail against "religion" all you like and I will join you but you're still a lousy interpreter.

That verse is not that tough if you pay attention.

But I seriously doubt you have the courage to give your preconceived notions a second thought.

Most people read the bible to reinforce their opinions rather than make an attempt to understand what the Author/author actually meant.

[Jerry Peck]

The religion of Benjamin Franklin, founding father (http://www.adherents.com/people/pf/Benjamin_Franklin.html)

That is your link.

Your forgot to read the first line. Like many "christians" you use selective reading to ignore the truth.

"Benjamin Franklin was raised as an Episcopalian but was a Deist as an adult. "

"
Deism - Deism has no church and no official organization, hence, it is not considered a religion. It is more a reason-based view of religion in general. Deism is sometimes referred to as a religious philosophy or a religious outlook. In general, Deism did not see Christ as the Son of God, did not believe in the Trinity, had no strong belief in miracles, and had no belief in atonement or resurrection. The Bible was not considered “sacred text” among most Deists, although most Deists were (like Franklin) Christian-friendly.
"

Religion and the Founding Fathers (http://www.earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm)
Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism)

[Jerry Peck]

Ron,

You are a good example of what is being talked about, and why this stuff keeps coming up.

Ron,

Don't feel alone, Michael L. is right there with you as a good example of what is being talked about and why this stuff keeps coming up and continuing.

[Ron Bibler]

Ron, Don't feel alone, Michael L. is right there with you as a good example of what is being talked about and why this stuff keeps coming up and continuing.

Its good to see that you are in the mix with us Jerry... We are all men under the bondage of Sin.

The only thing that has Michael and I set apart is we have found a place of grace on our knees before GOD Acknowledging our Sin-full state.

Finding that the blood of Christ has atonement for us.

Best

Ron

[Rick Cantrell]

"Your forgot to read the first line. Like many "christians" you use selective reading to ignore the truth."

No Jerry, I copied of one of thousands (?) of his sayings, just as Aaron did.
I was only showing that a few cut and pastes do not reveal all of a persons thoughts. Please note also that I did include the link back to the source.

As for " selective reading".
Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism)
" who did believe in one god (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism)"

But I must say, this is far better that insults and name calling.

[A.D. Miller]

To All Concerned:

Please do not make me post an exhaustive compendium on this subject. I certainly can, but this is not the forum for it.

Because I was reared in an extended family of flaming conservative fundamentalists I have made a life-long and in-depth study of the subject. My college degree is in philosophy. Should any of you have a sincere desire, coupled with the actual knowledge, to continue this discussion with me in earnest, feel free to contact me via email.

If your intent is to attempt to support fundamentalist religious "thought" be prepared for an education - free of charge.:D

[Ted Menelly]

To All Concerned:

Please do not make me post an exhaustive compendium on this subject. I certainly can, but this is not the forum for it.

Because I was reared in an extended family of flaming conservative fundamentalists I have made a life-long and in-depth study of the subject. My college degree is in philosophy. Should any of you have a sincere desire, coupled with the actual knowledge, to continue this discussion with me in earnest, feel free to contact me via email.

If your intent is to attempt to support fundamentalist religious "thought" be prepared for an education - free of charge.:D

I very truly, seriously, absolutely, undeniably understand quite clearly everything I was already leaning toward.

As in ....Your Opinion. If you think of where we live or should I say the universe we live in and how it, or should I say anything, actually appeared from nothing from nowhere one can only come to the conclusion that some way, some how, everything is possible.

Something, somewhere, somehow created something from nothing and then of course the question is............how did that something get created.

Not everything is as cut and dry as you want to believe. There is not always an answer to everything.

Close your eyes and try to imagine nothing. You cannot. Matter, a void, a solid, a liquid etc If you see black, it is something. If you see red from like coming through your eye lids it is interfering with your thought of nothing.

The human mind cannot think of nothing. It is totally impossible.

Something, somewhere, somehow created all of this and that something had to have always been here because you cannot create something from nothing.

All of that is to great for the human mind to contemplate and come up with any kind of answer so their answer will be................God. Whether they wish to believe it or not or have been talked into fearing any other answer for whatever reason or just needed something solid in life to believe in so they could escape what was happening in their life......They chose to and do believe in God....The supreme being......The beginning of all of this.....the always and everlasting.

No there is no scientific answer to how any of this came into being. The big bang??? It could have been part of it but how did the big bang come about from nothing and if it wasn't nothing then what was it and where did it come from.

There is no answer. God gives humans the answer. Why would anyone want to take that away from them.

No Aaron. You cannot give anyone an answer or education about creation. No one has or will ever have the answer to that or can educate anyone on the answer to that. Life long study??? Life long study of what??? Do you know how all this started??? I think not.

Was there a Jesus??? I do believe so. Was he the son of the creator of all this???? That my friend is an absolute yes. We all are in a round about way even if it took millions or billions or trillions of years to come about we are all an off spring of what initially created all of this. . Was he actually created directly by God or the creator of all this for a divine reason. That my friend is only for the believers to answer. Not me or you. That is what they choose to believe. The truth of the matter is that you or the believers do not know the physical answer to that.

Can someone heal the blind by putting their hands on ones face?????

I don't know the answer to that but again where did all of this come from ???????????????????????????????????????????????? Maybe someone can heal blindness from placing their hands on ones eyes !!!!!!!!!!


Life long study......of what????????????????????????

[Jerry Peck]

I was only showing that a few cut and pastes do not reveal all of a persons thoughts.

Got it.

I thought you had tipped to the dark side. :eek:

[A.D. Miller]

TM:
"...I would like to beg you dear Sir, as well as I can, to have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer." -Rainer Maria Rilke, 1903 in Letters to a Young Poet

[Ted Menelly]

TM:
"...I would like to beg you dear Sir, as well as I can, to have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer." -Rainer Maria Rilke, 1903 in Letters to a Young Poet

Now that is pretty funny. Ted has actually read that :o

Careful with all that reading stuff. You may go into overload.

[A.D. Miller]

Careful with all that reading stuff. You may go into overload.

TM: That happened about 40 years ago . . .

[Rick Cantrell]

Quote:

Careful with all that reading stuff. You may go into overload.

"TM: That happened about 40 years ago . . .

Pass that doob this way, please . . .:cool:"
That explains a few things.:D

[A.D. Miller]

Quote:

Careful with all that reading stuff. You may go into overload.

"TM: That happened about 40 years ago . . .

Pass that doob this way, please . . .:cool:"
That explains a few things.:D

RC: Perhaps, but what will you do with the information?:rolleyes:

[Ron Bibler]

TM:
"...I would like to beg you dear Sir, as well as I can, to have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer." -Rainer Maria Rilke, 1903 in Letters to a Young Poet

I must say Bagdad Bob That is off the wall...:eek:

No point and no return...

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

If your intent is to attempt to support fundamentalist religious "thought" be prepared for an education - free of charge.:DI wonder if you could define what "fundamentalist religious "thought"" is.

I'm am certain someone as arrogant as your self really does believe that he has it all figured out.

I for one have no doubt that one day your will be forced to face reality.

I suspect you will be quite surprised.

Good luck with your present course.

[A.D. Miller]

I wonder if you could define what "fundamentalist religious "thought"" is.

I'm am certain someone as arrogant as your self really does believe that he has it all figured out.

I for one have no doubt that one day your will be forced to face reality.

I suspect you will be quite surprised.

Good luck with your present course.


ML: An initiate may mistake arrogance for experience. As I said before, I welcome all intelligent discourse on this subject, just not here. This is not the place.

So then, for my last post on this thread:

1. I certainly do not have "it" all figured out. Life is one big question mark consisting of many questions. It is the journey through the questions that makes it interesting - not the answers.

2. Reality is whatever you believe it to be. Yours is significantly different than mine.

3. I like surprises.

4. There is no such thing as luck, unless you mean the kind one makes for himself.