NC License Board ties our Hands

[Mike Schulz]

NC adopts a new rule Oct !. Sorry if this is posted elsewhere. No more code statements unless you really know every detail of that Neighborhood. Here is the Rule.

State Building Code - If a licensee includes a deficiency in the written report of a home inspection that is stated as a violation of the North Carolina State Residential Building Code, the licensee must do all of the following:

(1) Determine the date of construction, renovation, and any subsequent installation or replacement of any system or component of the home.
(2) Determine the State Building Code in effect at the time of construction, renovation, and any subsequent installation or replacement of any system or component of the home.
(3) Conduct the home inspection using the building codes in effect at the time of the construction, renovation, and any subsequent installation or replacement of any system or component of the home.

In order to fully inform the client, if the licensee describes a deficiency as a violation of the State Building Code in the written report, then the report shall include the information described in subdivision (1) of this subsection and photocopies of the relevant provisions of the State Building Code used pursuant to subdivision (2) of this subsection to determine any violation stated in the report. The Board may adopt rules that are more restrictive on the use of the State Building Code by home inspectors.

:mad:

[Jerry Peck]

Mike,

Easy enough to avoid - simply describe it as a violation of nationally recognized codes, don't refer to the state code at all. :D

[Mike Schulz]

Thanks Jerry, I am going to use National standards or accepted building practices at the time of construction, and see how that flies. I got a feeling I'll be before the board justifing my position though. License is a double edge sword :cool:

[Jerry Peck]

I got a feeling I'll be before the board justifing my position though.


As long as you do not reference the state building code, which is *specifically* what that wording states, then they will need to give you a free pass until they change their wording, which would be to something like 'home inspectors are not allowed to reference codes', of course, that would prohibit you from referencing manufacturer's installation instructions as those manufacturer's installation become "code" by reference in the code to doing it in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions. :D

Sometimes those hot shots don't have the sense they were born with, or maybe they just were not born with any sense? :rolleyes: :eek:

[Jim Luttrall]

Sounds like the board is in the pocket of the Realtors and/or builders.
Follow the money!
The only person to gain by withholding information from consumers is someone with money to gain by the sale of non-compliant property, definitely not a gain for your clients.
Someone is trying to keep those pesky inspectors under control.
Maybe call the investigative reporters in to run the story and name names.
In the mean time I might post the rule in my report along with the name and number of the licensing board in case my clients wanted to give them a call.;)

[John Dirks Jr]

No need to cite codes.

1. Say whats wrong.

2. Say why its wrong.

3. Tell them to have a qualified contractor fix it.

[Bruce Ramsey]

Mike, try the phrase "commonly accepted building practices"

I have been using it for several years. I have had builders call and argue points of code with me based on the report. I refer them back to the report and ask them to point to the place where it says code. They can't find it.

Jim, no need to follow the money. It is widely known and publized. The NC Realtor Association and the Home Builder Association got together about 6-8 months ago and drafted proposed changes to the home inspector licensure laws. The state home inspector association was invited by NCRA and HBA to review their proposed changes. The HI association was able to modify and limit much of the proposed changes. The HI Association does not have the policical clout or money to kill the bill completely.

The bill was introduced and was recently passed through the law making process. Several good changes were made while others were less friendly.

[Randy Aldering]

There may be an extremely simple way around this one. "Contact local code official to verify . . . is acceptable under state building code, and provide written verification." That will protect your client, and place the burden exactly where it belongs - on the people who do not want you protecting your client.

[Dan Harris]

There may be an extremely simple way around this one. "Contact local code official to verify . . . is acceptable under state building code, and provide written verification." That will protect your client, and place the burden exactly where it belongs - on the people who do not want you protecting your client.


I can vouch that this does pi-s of the contractor/builder, and does work, providing the customer follows thru.
Last couple times was when the customer called the building dept. about a water softner drain line connected directly into a sewer vent pipe, and verify if the attic had proper access and if it was properly vented.
With the drain line, the customers option was have it corrected, or their water would be shut off.
On the attic venting/ access, for some reason the builder installed another attic access, and 6 more attic vents. :)

[Mike Schulz]

Randy I wish it was that simple. Reports have to be out that eve or next morning. Good luck getting an AHJ in that time frame.

John: Our problem is they don't want us to say the code word or reference it. But the first thing out of a builders mouth or Realtor is it past code or AHJ didn't write it up or was it code when the home was built.

I hate trying to explain to cleints on every inspection why we can't say the code word. Need to have a shirt made with it written all over it.

[Erby Crofutt]

YOU don't have to get an AHJ in that time frame. The client needs to do that in their extended time frame.

I don't have it on my shirt, but I do put it in my reports.
================================

If the response to an area of concern or a recommendation in my report is, "Well, they didn't have that (or they didn't do that) when the house was built," or that it was "grandfathered", I usually know that. When it comes to home repairs, "Grandfathered" is a term often tossed out by people who care more about their wallet than about you and your family's safety: as in "That eight inch gap in the balcony railing doesn't need to be fixed because it's grandfathered. It was okay to do it that way when this house was built.”

Is it going to comfort you, when your child falls through that gap and is badly injured, that the size of the gap was "Grandfathered"?
All "Grandfathered" really means is that no one can "force" you to change it, repair it, or replace it. Only you can choose what level of risk you want to live with. People with young children who could fall thru that 8 inch gap "should" choose to ensure it is changed to a safer gap but no one is going to force a change except you.

Since whatever issue was "grandfathered", our knowledge has increased considerably concerning safety in the home. I believe that you should be safe in your home and that taking care of your home should be as easy as possible. So I will recommend things that they didn't have or do years ago simply to keep you safe or help you take care of your home.

What's most important to me is that you and your family are as safe as possible in your home. Only you can choose what level of risk you want to live with and expose your family to. Just because I recommend it, doesn't mean you can expect the seller to pay for it.

Note that the Kentucky Home Builders Association lobbyists, among others, managed to have the Kentucky State Legislature include the following in the Kentucky Home Inspector Licensing Law:

Kentucky Revised Statutes (KRS) Chapter 198B.738
"198B.738 Home inspectors prohibited from indicating compliance or noncompliance with building code.
Home inspectors, when acting in that capacity, are prohibited from indicating orally or in writing that any condition is or is not in compliance with any building code enforced under KRS Chapter 198B.
Effective: July 15, 2008
History: Amended 2008 Ky. Acts ch. 100, sec. 9, effective July 15, 2008. --
Created 2004 Ky. Acts ch. 109, sec. 20, effective July 13, 2004."

Therefore, if you think an issue might be a code violation, you need to consult your local building code enforcement department, if there is one, for a determination, as it is illegal for me to tell you orally or in writing that any condition is or is not in compliance with any building code enforced under KRS Chapter 198B".

As they can answer questions that I, legally, am not allowed too, you may also want to call the:

Kentucky Department of Building, Housing & Construction
Division of Building Codes Enforcement
101 Sea Hero Road
Suite 100
Frankfort, KY 40601
Phone: 502-573-0364
E-Mail contact information is available on their website at:
Kentucky: Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction - Overview (http://dhbc.ky.gov/bce/)

If you have any questions, please call me.
===================================

Some people don't like to see it, but, oh well!

-

[Jim Luttrall]

YOU don't have to get an AHJ in that time frame. The client needs to do that in their extended time frame.

I don't have it on my shirt, but I do put it in my reports.
================================

If the response to an area of concern or a recommendation in my report is, "Well, they didn't have that (or they didn't do that) when the house was built," or that it was "grandfathered", I usually know that. When it comes to home repairs, "Grandfathered" is a term often tossed out by people who care more about their wallet than about you and your family's safety: as in "That eight inch gap in the balcony railing doesn't need to be fixed because it's grandfathered. It was okay to do it that way when this house was built.”

Is it going to comfort you, when your child falls through that gap and is badly injured, that the size of the gap was "Grandfathered"?
All "Grandfathered" really means is that no one can "force" you to change it, repair it, or replace it. Only you can choose what level of risk you want to live with. People with young children who could fall thru that 8 inch gap "should" choose to ensure it is changed to a safer gap but no one is going to force a change except you.

Since whatever issue was "grandfathered", our knowledge has increased considerably concerning safety in the home. I believe that you should be safe in your home and that taking care of your home should be as easy as possible. So I will recommend things that they didn't have or do years ago simply to keep you safe or help you take care of your home.

What's most important to me is that you and your family are as safe as possible in your home. Only you can choose what level of risk you want to live with and expose your family to. Just because I recommend it, doesn't mean you can expect the seller to pay for it.

Note that the Kentucky Home Builders Association lobbyists, among others, managed to have the Kentucky State Legislature include the following in the Kentucky Home Inspector Licensing Law:

Kentucky Revised Statutes (KRS) Chapter 198B.738
"198B.738 Home inspectors prohibited from indicating compliance or noncompliance with building code.
Home inspectors, when acting in that capacity, are prohibited from indicating orally or in writing that any condition is or is not in compliance with any building code enforced under KRS Chapter 198B.
Effective: July 15, 2008
History: Amended 2008 Ky. Acts ch. 100, sec. 9, effective July 15, 2008. --
Created 2004 Ky. Acts ch. 109, sec. 20, effective July 13, 2004."

Therefore, if you think an issue might be a code violation, you need to consult your local building code enforcement department, if there is one, for a determination, as it is illegal for me to tell you orally or in writing that any condition is or is not in compliance with any building code enforced under KRS Chapter 198B".

As they can answer questions that I, legally, am not allowed too, you may also want to call the:

Kentucky Department of Building, Housing & Construction
Division of Building Codes Enforcement
101 Sea Hero Road
Suite 100
Frankfort, KY 40601
Phone: 502-573-0364
E-Mail contact information is available on their website at:
Kentucky: Department of Housing, Buildings and Construction - Overview (http://dhbc.ky.gov/bce/)

If you have any questions, please call me.
===================================

Some people don't like to see it, but, oh well!

-
That's what I'm talkin' about, SIC'EM Erby!

[Erby Crofutt]

Nah, no "sic em", just information.

It actually takes a load off our back and places it where it belongs, on the code inspectors back.

I've always found the state building code guys to be very willing to answer people's questions. They've gone back and looked at a few things behind me and required fixes. Much more willing than some local code guys. But don't get me wrong. I know some REALLY GOOD code guys. Those just want it done right.

There's good, bad & ugly in every professiion, including ours.

-

[mathew stouffer]

After reading this I am glad Utah doesnt require licensure. Sounds like a pain. Plus I had a builder call me Sir today. I had to laugh.

[Bruce Ramsey]

Randy I wish it was that simple. Reports have to be out that eve or next morning. Good luck getting an AHJ in that time frame.

Mike that is a business decision, not a state law. State law says deliver the report within 3 days OR at an agreed upon date.

I have called the state electrical inspector, Ron Chilton, several times. Usually he gets back to me within several hours.

[Mike Schulz]

Bruce I appreciate the comments and to be fair I have called and gotten people right away. Then there is times I never get a call back. All the real estate agents I have dealt with in 15 years all want the report the next day. You take 3 days you loose business. And when you do two a day you can't let reports back up they will never get out. Only time I get to free load is on a Friday and they don't care if they get it till Monday.

In my opinion each township should have what they have adopted posted on there web site. Then all the confusion will go away with what, where and when. Need to have our lobbyist push for that around here. Our association does pay for one don't they?

[Jeffrey L. Mathis]

As a member of the board of the NC Licensed Home Inspectors Assn., I can tell you that the code section of the new regs was one of those "give to get" items. Much of the new law is good. It hamstrings the clowns that take the week-end class, get thier contractor's license and then back-door in to the Inspectors License with no experience and only the ability to pass a multiple choice test. It seriously stiffens educational requirements for new licensees and requires minimal liability insurance but you surely understand that in North Carolina there are under 1600 active licensed inspectors. There are tens of thousands of realtors and contractors. As someone said-follow the money. We had to split the difference on more than one issue. But the realtors were going to make a move and the contractors were not willing to give up the back-door route. The numbers are not on our side. Always remember, the licensure board is not there for our protection and they are political appointees.

JLMathis

[Scott Patterson]

After reading this I am glad Utah doesnt require licensure. Sounds like a pain. Plus I had a builder call me Sir today. I had to laugh.

Actually licensing solves many problems. A good law will provide working standards, a time limit of liability, what the inspector does and does not inspect, a source for a consumer to file a complaint, sets an education bar for the initial license and CE, provides the inspector with a legitimate credential, and the list goes on and on.

I have worked under a home inspection license in a couple states since 2001 and I have not seen any adverse effects on my business or life, only positive. Those that fuss and have trouble with license laws are trying to hard to find problems and are just not happy campers! :)

[Restoration]

Good information here again.Thanks for sharing the same.Yes may be they have to do it for the buyers point of view.