National exam [Archive] - InspectionNews

Ted Menelly

11-18-2009, 07:58 AM

What is a good national exam to take to be certified as a home inspector? NACHI or ASHI?

As a certified ??? Home Inspector ???

Well if you want to take a decent exam for home inspection the National Home Inspectors Exam is a good one. I think ASHI still uses it.

The only certification that you will get from ASHI or NACHI is there certification to you and if you send a sampling of inspection reports for them to scrutinize (which says nothing to how good you actually did your inspection) and after so many inspection (ASHI) you go up the ladder from their newbies to a certified home inspector. You are better off with a good local/state association. A national association will do nothing but maybe get you a few referrals during the course of the year and lighter in the pocket when you can do all that with a local association. There are many inspectors that belong to several associations. This again is to gain referrals but keep in mind that all these associations charge a fee to belong.

Go to this link

National Home Inspector Examination - The Examination Board of Professional Home Inspectors (http://www.homeinspectionexam.org/)

Scott Patterson

11-18-2009, 08:16 AM

As a certified ??? Home Inspector ???

Well if you want to take a decent exam for home inspection the National Home Inspectors Exam is a good one. I think ASHI still uses it.

The only certification that you will get from ASHI or NACHI is there certification to yo and if you send a sampling of inspection reports for them to scrutinize (which says nothing to how good you actually did your inspection) and after so many inspection (ASHI) you go up the ladder from their newbies to a certified home inspector. You are better off with a good local/state association. A national association will do nothing but maybe get you a few referrals during the course of the year and lighter in the pocket when you can do all that with a local association. There are many inspectors that belong to several associations. This again is to gain referrals but keep in mind that all these associations charge a fee to belong.

Go to this link

National Home Inspector Examination - The Examination Board of Professional Home Inspectors (http://www.homeinspectionexam.org/)

Ryan, Ted has answered your question pretty good.

Basically all of the home inspector associations provide a self serving type of certification. Outside of the organization they don't mean very much, but one of the associations is trying to change that.

This year ASHI stepped through the hoops to have their certification process accredited by NCCA Accreditation (http://www.noca.org/Resources/NCCAAccreditation/tabid/82/Default.aspx), which is a third party organization that approves certification programs. They are the only HI association that has done this. This is a step in the right direction for our profession. Maybe the other associations will do the same.

You have a very good ASHI chapter in your area. I think they meet in Midvale, Frank Larson is their contact person in the chapter 801-201-9583

Dan Harris

11-18-2009, 10:09 AM

What is a good national exam to take to be certified as a home inspector? NACHI or ASHI?

Anytime your ready to take one of the mentioned, let me know.
I will gurantee I will get you a 90% plus test score, on one of them, in 12-14 Min. :D

David McGuire

04-16-2010, 12:34 PM

Dan I recently took a class for home inspections. 80 hours over the course of 1 week. 5 of us in the class, 4 of which have taking the NHIE already. 2 passed and 2 failed. I am testing May 7. What is this 12 to 14 minute help you describe?

Michael Thomas

04-16-2010, 01:17 PM

Don't know if it's still true, but there used to be a substantial fail at rate on Illinois licensing exam, which I breezed through in around a quarter of the allotted time (including double checking all my answers) and which IMO anybody remotely competent to be inspecting homes ought to be able to breeze through as well.

To me these tests are sort of like municipal code inspections: the ability to pass them means only that you meet the absolute minimum standard.

The good news (at least from the standpoint of someone entering the business, from the standpoint of people hiring inspectors, perhaps not so much :() is that when I started out I was rarely asked - and I'm still rarely asked today - about professional association membership or even about the nature of my experience.

David McGuire

04-16-2010, 02:31 PM

When I took the practice 225 question test we had in class I breezed through it as well. It was supposed to be a good crass section of the test pool on the NHIE. But I finished the exam 45 minutes ahead of everyone else and was afraid I sped through it and finished far to early. All through the week our instructors all said the same, understand the theory of what and why your inspecting something, the operating parameters of the systems along with an understand of the Code of Ethics and SOP and you won't have a problem.

Well, I guess I'll see come May 7TH.

Ken Bates

04-19-2010, 06:58 PM

As a University freshman I was advised to learn the material rathter than just study it in order to pass exams. I.e. if you learned the subject you will pass the test.

Test preparatory classes should be made illegal as they only teach you how to pass the exam RELYING ON A REPRESENTATIVE QUANTITY OF QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ACTUALLY USED IN PRIOR EXAMS. What kind of ego and morality do you have if you need to take prep courses to pass exams??

There's no comparison between the NHIE and NACHI exam. I took the NHIE exam once without any prep class or cheat sheets or question samples. I took it with total honesty. I finished before the allotted time and scored high marks (B's and some A's)

As a joke, I took the NACHI exam online after reading about it in a blog.

I scored 98% correct marks using just one half of the allotted time and did this while consuming 4 stiff margaritas. Nuff said.

David McGuire

04-19-2010, 07:19 PM

Scott Patterson

04-20-2010, 05:48 AM

Thank you Ken. The class I took taught the theory and fundamentals of inspection. It did not teach the test pool. The sample test pool was there just for our own FYI. I know people from all over the country come to take the classes offered at this school. I am very comfortable with my knowledge of the theory and fundamentals. I spend about an hour a day going over the ASHI SOP/Code of Ethics and the Code Check book. I look at several inspection samples. I have 3D Elite installed and I am very comfortable with the software. So I feel I am ready and confident I will be alright.

David, the test will not be difficult if you know the material. Most have problems with Electrical, Structural, and HVAC. Keep in mind the exam is looking for the best answer out of the 4 that are given. You will not have any True/False or trick questions. You have about 50 seconds to answer each question, if you don't know the answer then come back and do not simply guess at it.

You need to know the ins and outs of an electrical panel and system in a home. Everything from wire/breaker size to problematic panels.

You should be familiar with Pools/Spas, Appliances, and law irrigation systems as well. They were added to the NHIE back in 2008. Many schools skip over these because they are not in the associations SOP's. But as an inspector you will see them in the field.

You also need to know how to write reports and also how to conduct yourself as a professional.

Michael Thomas

04-20-2010, 06:16 AM

I probably shouldn't tell you this, but since it sounds like you have already done the majority of your studying, and are just experiencing pretest stress:

For someone who has actually studied and understands the material provided in most training programs, I can predict pretty accurately how the exam experience is going to go.

First five questions: "Well, at least I seem to have some idea what's going on."

First ten questions: "Well, at least they seem to be asking me things I know."

First twenty questions: "Hey, this is actually pretty easy, so far anyway."

First fifty questions: "Hey, how come I'm going through these so fast with only one or two questions I'm sure about? it can't be this easy."

_________________________

Now, if you decide to get some code certs - then you will have some serious exams on your plate.

David McGuire

04-20-2010, 07:30 AM

Ted Menelly

04-20-2010, 07:43 AM

David, the test will not be difficult if you know the material. Most have problems with Electrical, Structural, and HVAC. Keep in mind the exam is looking for the best answer out of the 4 that are given. You will not have any True/False or trick questions. You have about 50 seconds to answer each question, if you don't know the answer then come back and do not simply guess at it.

You need to know the ins and outs of an electrical panel and system in a home. Everything from wire/breaker size to problematic panels.

You should be familiar with Pools/Spas, Appliances, and law irrigation systems as well. They were added to the NHIE back in 2008. Many schools skip over these because they are not in the associations SOP's. But as an inspector you will see them in the field.

You also need to know how to write reports and also how to conduct yourself as a professional.

Yeah think. If he knows the material about anything the test on it will not be difficult.

Yes, the law needs plenty of irrigation.

Just messing with you Scott

Scott Patterson

04-20-2010, 10:53 AM

Pretest stress, me? Now what would tend you to think I have that? Yea, I have it alright.

Hey Scott, our coverage with pools/spa's and irrigation systems lasted all of about 20 seconds. We were told we do not have to inspect them and that was that. Unless it was a permamnent fixture in the bathroom. And looking at my copy of the ASHI SOP/Code of Ethics I see that it is the 10-15-2006 version.

The electrical part is my weakest area. Always been intimidated by electricity in my life. But over the last few months I have become more comfortable with what I know and don't know. Learning structure, exterirors and roofing is easy. You can drive down any street and just park your car and study all the houses with-in sight and pick up 90% of what ya need to know. With an electrical panel, you have to be right in there to learn it. You can't learn very much with a book and pictures.

That is what I was saying about the standards. The NHIE does not use any association or state standard in designing the exam. The NHIE is based on what is called a Role Delineation Study (RDS), this is a study of the profession and what is the best practice or what is being done in the field. Association SOP's are like a building code, they are the minimal standard.

Go to this website National Home Inspector Examination - EBPHI - Preparing for the Exam (http://www.homeinspectionexam.org/exam_preparation.php) and take a look at the Exam Blueprint. This essentially tells you what you need to study.

David McGuire

04-20-2010, 04:41 PM

Scott Patterson

04-21-2010, 10:00 AM

Scott I want to thank you for the link. I had been all over their page but some how missed that. If ya ever come to this part of Kansas call ahead, I fix ya up a smoked pork butt and you can have a heck of a pile of pulled pork. This link is fantastic.

You need to fuss and yell at whoever was your instructor! They should have provided this information. Simply no excuse for anyone that purports themselves to be an home inspector instructor to not have this information and provide it to their students.

Glad to have been able to help... I like pork! :)

Bruce Ramsey

03-02-2011, 09:44 AM

Rick Cantrell

03-02-2011, 10:05 AM

Congrats Bruce
Come on down and I'll take you to lunch.

Scott Patterson

03-02-2011, 03:03 PM

Took the NHIE exam this morning and PASSED!

It is not required for state licensing but its been on the ToDo list a few years. Finally decided I shouldn't wait any longer. A few of the questions were head scratchers but overall I found it relatively easy and straightforward.

Missed 10 out of 200 with a score of 731 in 90 minutes. Whopee!

That is a great score.... 800 is as high as you can get.... I think the average score is around 600-650.

Experienced inspectors should not have much trouble passing the NHIE.

Garry Sorrells

03-03-2011, 07:20 AM

That is a great score.... 800 is as high as you can get.... I think the average score is around 600-650.

Experienced inspectors should not have much trouble passing the NHIE.

From what I have seen, the people teaching the HI instruction have not taken the test and do not know or really understand what is in it. They rely on presenting what they are told to present to meet some min course requirements. How someone can teach a course in HI and not have recently taken the NHIE and then prepare their students for what to expect are worthless. Many states now require the NHIE for lic. If you know the material involved in HI passing the exam is not hard. Being prepared for how the test is presented is another story. Preparing the students would not be hard, but it would take time and effort to prepare the presentation correctly. To many teaching teach to a minimum material presentation standard.

Scott Patterson

03-03-2011, 08:55 AM

From what I have seen, the people teaching the HI instruction have not taken the test and do not know or really understand what is in it. They rely on presenting what they are told to present to meet some min course requirements. How someone can teach a course in HI and not have recently taken the NHIE and then prepare their students for what to expect are worthless. Many states now require the NHIE for lic. If you know the material involved in HI passing the exam is not hard. Being prepared for how the test is presented is another story. Preparing the students would not be hard, but it would take time and effort to prepare the presentation correctly. To many teaching teach to a minimum material presentation standard.

BINGO!

I no longer serve on the EBPHI board, but I can tell first hand that a large percentage of the instructors and schools across the country are teaching out of date and old concepts when it comes to home inspections. EBPHI makes available the exam blueprint and much more to the various schools and it is amazing how few request the material. It amounts to the blind leading the blind when it comes to teaching.

A while back I had a owner of a home inspection school complaining that his students were not passing the NHIE. I asked him if he had requested the exam blueprint, he had not. I asked him if he had ever taken the NHIE, he had not. I then asked him when he last updated his material, he said that he was using Carson Dunlap material from 2004. Needless to say, I have a feeling that this is fairly common!

Nolan Kienitz

03-03-2011, 08:56 AM

From what I have seen, the people teaching the HI instruction have not taken the test and do not know or really understand what is in it. They rely on presenting what they are told to present to meet some min course requirements. How someone can teach a course in HI and not have recently taken the NHIE and then prepare their students for what to expect are worthless. Many states now require the NHIE for lic. If you know the material involved in HI passing the exam is not hard. Being prepared for how the test is presented is another story. Preparing the students would not be hard, but it would take time and effort to prepare the presentation correctly. To many teaching teach to a minimum material presentation standard.

Having to take the NHIE to be somewhat knowledgeable about the exam in Texas won't be a problem.

The TREC just lowers the required passing score to pass the exam!!! This was done in the past few months at the huge lobby effort of the "inspector schools" that were about to lose their accreditation to teach as the required percentage of their graduates were NOT passing the test on the "first try".

BTW - it is quite likely that the NHIE will replace the current Texas licensing exam (with a Texas module) in the near future.

Garry Sorrells

03-04-2011, 06:02 AM

If anything the NHIE should be increased to 400 or 500 questions and the passing percentage should be increased not decreased. I would say that min pass at 90% would be reasonable, provided the difficulty of the questions was not altered. Icould write a test that any idiot could pass with a 98% . I think that the entire problem stems from the industry wide insistence that a HI is a generalist and that the level of competency is that which will fulfill the most minimum adherence to a Stand of Practiced proclaimed by organizations. Additionally, many states have patterned their SOP after these organizations because the people who wrote the states SOP are those who are members of one organization or another. I went around in circles trying to force a local college that was teaching a course to meet the states licensing requirements for HI. The school was not preparing the students and I was attempting to have them so a better job. The school relied on a position that they were meeting the minimum requirements of the level of preparation which had been agreed on when they received accreditation from the state to teach the course. I only prevailed after after I asserted that the school's course description as printed in their catalog was in fact a contractual offer and acceptance situation. The wording offered me the leverage to force (and I do mean FORCE) the school to provide a higher level of performance. If only for a brief period. The point being that the instructors, head of the division that was responsible for the course, assistant Dean and Dean of that segment of the college all said that they were meeting (in their view) the minimum requirements as set forth in their course offering.

The real issue is the SOP which many hold up as the minimum and maximum point to which they required to aspire. The position that the current SOP is all that is legally required (if in fact there is a state lic. or control) and that is all which is required. Then having the (cop-out) fall back of the crutch that the HI is a generalist and further investigation is need by a professional in that area. I do not mean to say that the HI has to be all knowing (which is impossible) but the ability to obtain a license with absolutely no actual hands on (competent) experience in building and construction industry is the rub. The HI industry is one that lends itself to printed check box forms and cover your ass (CYA) inspection agreements. Then there is direct or indirect collusion with the Realtors. The process becomes corrupted. Now with so many people now rely on a HI (right or wrong) during a purchase process and so many have received so little from their HI.

Sorry for a rant. The bur under the saddle works it way through at times. It is that I went on a quest a while back. Trying to make a difference and found so much complaisance through the industry. Frustration in trying to alter fixed positions of people that would not admit that there was a problem and action was needed. Reciently I did see that the course description was altered so that it better reflects the level of what is presented. Therefore, I am sure the students still do not understand that they are receiving only the minimum required by the state. The students think that they will be prepared, which they will not. Even if they are licensed they will not be really competent and the public will suffer. Even 100, 500, 1000, 10000 inspections does not mean that they were good just that they were done. Maybe to a SOP of some kind maybe not. Placating to the Realtor for their referrals, possibly. Really looking but not seeing. Really seeing but not knowing. There are a lot of snake oil sales taking place.

Bruce Ramsey

03-04-2011, 03:53 PM

Then having the (cop-out) fall back of the crutch that the HI is a generalist and further investigation is need by a professional in that area. I do not mean to say that the HI has to be all knowing (which is impossible) but the ability to obtain a license with absolutely no actual hands on (competent) experience in building and construction industry is the rub.

I am all for more required education and/or a more defined sequence of training to move from a complete novice and up through several levels. The problem as I see it right now, there are no intermediate levels between reading The Big Book of Homebuilding and licensed Tradesman. No entity has defined that by knowing X, Y and Z, the student qualifies for in essence an associate degree or journeyman's knowledge base in plumbing, electrical, roofing, insulation, etc.

The unusual thing about home inspectors is we don't fix or do, we just point out that it is wrong or unsafe. The ICC Residential Inspector certs would be a good way to ensure that HIs are familiar with the appropriate code references but does not teach to look in the crawlspace under exterior doors for water intrusion or to tip the stove to check for the anti-tip bracket.

There are at least several sets of knowledge base necessary. 1) Building, Plumbing, Electrical, and Mechanical code knowledge. Current and a matrix of when common "safety" items were implemented over the years. 2) A set of common areas to check for frequent problems (under thresholds, anti-tip bracket, etc. 3) Building Science. Understanding air flow through homes helps to explain the dark stains along the edges of wall to wall carpet, chimney effect of stairways, etc. 4) Ability to write clearly and concisely, 5) Marketing and Business management 6) Product identification and ramifications. Be able to differentiate between blown cellulose and Vermiculite. Aluminum wiring vs Tinned copper, etc.

Working in the trades for 10 years doing new construction is not going to adequately prepare you for inspecting homes. Remodeling is probably a better learning ground so you can see what bad flashing and leaky pipes do to a house.

Code certifications, engineering degrees, and college building course teach how things are supposed to be built, not what happens to a house when it is done incorrectly. There are no courses out there that teach what home inspectors need to know, Building Forensics.

The problem is how many people would pay for and take a 2 yr course in Building Forensics. The NC licensing board executive director reported that 180 people attempted to sign up for the HI state exam last year. Half failed the test. Half will fail on the second attempt. Less than 200 people per year in the entire state attempted to become home inspectors. The community college system said not worth the effort to offer a course of study.

Almost 400 NC home inspectors did not renew their license or put it in inactive status last renewal deadline. That only leaves 1000 licensed inspectors statewide. I would imagine other states have similar numbers. 35,000 to 50,000 inspectors nationwide. Not enough nationwide to support the funding and development of a 2 yr college level program even if all existing inspectors had to go through the course.

If ASHI, NAHI, InterNACHI, CREIA, and all the other associations could agree on a program of study and fund developlment, it might happen. Maybe you could be the spark that changes everything.

Scott Patterson

03-05-2011, 10:37 AM

If ASHI, NAHI, InterNACHI, CREIA, and all the other associations could agree on a program of study and fund developlment, it might happen. Maybe you could be the spark that changes everything.

The key is funding! With all of the membership organizations suffering the same loss of members as we are seeing in all of the licensed states, they are doing good to just keeping their numbers in the black.

Garry Sorrells

03-05-2011, 02:25 PM

The key is funding! With all of the membership organizations suffering the same loss of members as we are seeing in all of the licensed states, they are doing good to just keeping their numbers in the black.

I would love to see the books on the organizations to see how the dues/fees are spent.

As things continue to shake out in the real estate market and the economy in general, it will also be interesting how much more heated the name calling and the casting of dispursinons on the competing organizations will become. As organizations strive to maintain their membership and attempt at attracting new members.

Bruce,
I wish I had the ultimate answer to the education and experience void that would make it all right. I also wish I could be able to vave a wand that would give people ethics and morals that so many seem to be lacking. I always get a chuckle when I hear about colleges and companys offering courses and classes in ethics.

I have wondered as to feasibility to create a good, in-depth online training system that could be offered at a low cost if not free. Of what I have seen the organizations video offerings seem a bit lacking. Maybe it's the teacher in me that says the presentation needs improvement.

Jerry McCarthy

03-05-2011, 05:04 PM

In 2007 I served on the NHIE exam review committee with Chris Ueland and Jack Feldman. (I think Scott Patterson was chair at that time?) I have also served on the ICC Residential Exam Review Committee, and currently a member of the ICC Residential Plans Examiner Exam Committee. I also serve on the California Real Estate Inspection Association entry level exam that all candidates have to take and pass to become a CREIA Certified inspector (CCI) and the Master CREIA exam committees (MCI), which all CREIA CCI’s have to take and pass to become a Master CREIA Inspector (MCI). These posts have supplied me with a fairly good opportunity for comparing them in difficulty. IMHO and not written in stone; the toughest is the CREIA candidate entry exam, followed closely by the NHIE, and then the ICC Combination Residential Dwelling Inspector exams about even with the CREIA Master Inspector exam.

The ICC exams go something like this in difficulty from easiest to toughest; Structural, Plumbing, HVAC, and Electrical. It is no secret that your average home inspector has the most difficulty with the electric codes probably due to the fact that so many of its sections are followed by exceptions. Again, these are only my opinions and others may well have had other experiences and therefore drawn other conclusions. I also believe that to be a competent property inspector one needs to build a building code library and take as many decent building inspection seminars as they can afford.

It has been my experience that far too many inspector schools teach how to take and pass these exams of which the ICC being the most popular. Therefore, I have never placed too much confidence of inspectors sporting a bunch of certifications, but if you really want to know just how knowledgeable an inspector is then I recommend you inspect a property they have recently inspected and then review their written report. I’m also one of two CREIA inspection report reviewers and have extensive experience performing EW in home inspector litigation. (That’s another story for another time) Also, when are we going to drop the term “home inspection” and use “real estate inspection” instead?

Oh, and BTW, are there any home inspectors out there that actually believe they’re not performing a code complying inspection when they conduct a home inspection for their client?

Jerry Peck

03-05-2011, 06:44 PM

Also, when are we going to drop the term “home inspection” and use “real estate inspection” instead?

West Coast Jerry,

I do not think we should ever change from "home inspection" to "real estate inspection" as that is not the only type of inspections "home inspectors" perform.

"Real estate inspections" may be the largest slice of the pie, but they do not encompass the entire pie.

As such, I have always promoted the idea of changing "home inspector/inspection" to "private building inspector/inspection" as that more accurately represents what "private building inspectors" do - they inspect "buildings", which includes "homes", and they inspect buildings for reasons other than "real estate" transactions.

I've been saying the above for over 20 years, and I will continue to say it until it comes to be :) ... or until I can no longer say anything ... :eek:

Jerry McCarthy

03-06-2011, 09:25 AM

EC Jerry - "home inspector/inspection" to "private building inspector/inspection." OK, I'll buy that.
Another thought; how much of the curtilage should the inspector inspect in a normal private building inspection?

John Kogel

03-06-2011, 04:55 PM

We have used "building inspection" interchangeably with "home inspection" here in my area, but "The Building Inspector" refers to the official from the municipality, (who has the power to shut you down and make life miserable, etc).
That may be why "home" is preferred by most people.
"Real Estate Inspector" is too much like "Real Estate Agent", and we need to maintain separation from that group.

What is wrong with "Home Inspector"?

Jerry Peck

03-06-2011, 06:09 PM

We have used "building inspection" interchangeably with "home inspection" here in my area, but "The Building Inspector" refers to the official from the municipality,

I agree that "building inspector" implies the municipal inspector, thus the reason I use "private" in "private building inspection" - to signify that this is not a municipal code inspection.

Lisa Endza

03-06-2011, 11:37 PM

What is a good national exam to take to be certified as a home inspector? NACHI or ASHI?You can't get certified by InterNACHI by passing an exam.

It is unconscionable that there are societies out there that award their highest "certified" membership status for passing one exam, once. InterNACHI doesn't use a single exam, and certainly doesn't rely on the NHIE, a beginner's exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school.

InterNACHI's many requirements are in addition, and above and beyond, the beginner's exam your state may make you take to enter the profession.

It's bad enough that they use the same exam as states use to license new inspectors, but even worse, these certification mills don't even require that you actually retake it again. If you took it to get licensed as a newbie, that's enough for them. Shazam! LOL

InterNACHI certification is based on a very robust educational ramp up which includes hundreds of quizzes and dozens of state-approved courses, each with their own final exam, and again, this is all on top of whatever beginner's exam your state requires.

Scott Patterson

03-07-2011, 06:56 AM

You can't get certified by InterNACHI by passing an exam.

It is unconscionable that there are societies out there that award their highest "certified" membership status for passing one exam, once. InterNACHI doesn't use a single exam, and certainly doesn't rely on the NHIE, a beginner's exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school.

InterNACHI's many requirements are in addition, and above and beyond, the beginner's exam your state may make you take to enter the profession.

It's bad enough that they use the same exam as states use to license new inspectors, but even worse, these certification mills don't even require that you actually retake it again. If you took it to get licensed as a newbie, that's enough for them. Shazam! LOL

InterNACHI certification is based on a very robust educational ramp up which includes hundreds of quizzes and dozens of state-approved courses, each with their own final exam, and again, this is all on top of whatever beginner's exam your state requires.

Lisa, you are a work of art.... You twist and tweak your post to baffle and trick the poor fools that are considering entering this profession. While your employer might have some good membership benifits it's negative reputation seems to outweigh them 10 to 1. The paid staff and owner of your organization are the only workers of a professional organization that I have ever seen post negative and misleading information about other professional organizations in the same profession. The first rule in business is that you never talk bad about your compatition.

Those of us that have been around for a few years know that your organization post and boast of its requirements but it does not enforce them. They might be on paper but that is it. I personally know 4 inspectors who have a membership in your organization as well as a few others; they all have said that they took the simple online exam, paid the fee and that is it. They have never done anything else to maintain their membership. They just send in the yearly check and life goes on.

That's all I'm going to post, if you want to post more that is up to you. Life is too short to walk around with a chip on your shoulder and worrying about how others tie their shoes.

Randy King

03-07-2011, 07:47 AM

Scott is exactly right, words a twistin!. This will probably bring about the stupid org. vs. org. dialogue which I feel like never goes anywhere, but I like Scott know a number of people that are members of inachi and have personally been both a member of inachi and currently ashi. The entrance requirements for ashi are constantly misconstrued by other org. members and I can't stand when people aren't dealing with FACTS!

From personal experience, I thought inachi's entrance exam was quite easy. I agree with Scott, I think it is stupid to bash each other because it does nothing for each other or our industry. I see benefits from each org. in the industry and everyone has their personal opinion on what they prefer, but can't it be left at that? The only other thing I will say is that certain inachi member's and promoters need to get their facts right on ashi's requirements. This claim of anyone can join ashi, even a pet is just plain stupid! When I joined almost 2 years ago, I had to send in a driver's license and verify my background and it took almost 2 1/2 weeks to receive my initial membership paperwork and a listing online. Now, I would love to see an entrance exam just to be a member to show a baseline of education or maybe even just verification sent of a x number of hours of education even to be an associate but that's just my opinion. All I know is after being a member of both organizations, I have my thoughts about both and wish ashi would get ahead of the times with some areas but they are very, very good with others. Anyone interested in membership should look ahead to what's available to them, get all of the facts and benefits and choose for themselves. ;)

Jerry McCarthy

03-07-2011, 09:21 AM

These are the current basic requirements for CREIA Candidates to upgrade to CCI membership:

Then upgrading your Candidate Member status to a CERTIFIED CREIA INSPECTOR (CCI) Member involves the following six (6) requirements:
1. You must secure/document thirty (30) Continuing Education Credit (CEC) hours relating to real estate inspection. One Continuing Education Credit (CEC) is awarded for each hour of attendance at a pre-approved inspector education program. A CREIA approved educational supplier must provide a certificate of attendance that is to be submitted by the inspector to CREIA Headquarters for recording. Attendance records at CREIA sponsored events — such as chapter meetings, toolboxes and CREIA conferences — are supplied directly by the hosting chapter(s); however, in order to ensure accurate recording of an inspector's attendance at such events, it is in the best interest of the inspector to maintain their separate documentation of attendance. Approved CECs are added to the inspector's file.
2. Attend two (2) of your local CREIA Chapter meetings.
3. Pass the California Home Inspector Exam (includes questions on CREIA Code of Ethics).
4. Participate in the CREIA Mentoring Program with a RideAlong with an approved CREIA mentor and ONE of the following:
5. Have a copy of one of your current Inspection Reports reviewed by an approved CREIA mentor
6. Take part in a parallel inspection with an approved CREIA mentor

Once you have successfully passed the above requirements you will be entitled to use the CERTIFIED CREIA INSPECTOR (CCI) designation and logo on your business and marketing materials. We strongly urge you to seek this CERTFIED CREIA INSPECTOR (CCI) Member status so that we can recognize and refer you to Realtors® and consumers seeking a CERTIFIED CREIA INSPECTOR (CCI) Member.
Established over 30 YEARS ago in California, CREIA is a hands-on, member-run organization committed to promoting the real estate and home inspection industry, providing educational programming, and maintaining ethical standards for inspections which keep our members at the top of their field. You are invited to attend and participate in local chapter and state wide CREIA events, seminars and conferences.

Rolland Pruner

03-07-2011, 10:56 AM

When I was inspecting I belonged to every Assc. I could, I learned everything I could this helps eliminate future problems, you can;t learn it all but can cut down on things you don't. This cuts down your liabilty. All assc are good? My opinion!!!!

Lisa Endza

03-07-2011, 11:56 AM

I am not qualified determine if the NHIE is a good exam or not. From what I understand it is a very good basic exam.

I was merely pointing out the fact that many states use this beginner's exam to license newbies fresh out of school. Even the EBPHI admits it is a MINIMUM-competency exam.

You can't have it both ways.

If the NHIE is a good, minimum-competency exam for licensing newbies, it then shouldn't be used by any association as the basis for awarding their highest membership status.

Scott Patterson

03-07-2011, 01:24 PM

Randy King

03-07-2011, 02:47 PM

Thanks Scott, was going to make that point myself but figured I would stay away from it. Personally, I don't think the NHIE is necessarily a basic exam but it does indeed show a level of competence. If you "can't have it both ways"? how exactly can one scream about that ASHI's entrance requirements aren't good enough or "shouldn't be used by any association as the basis for awarding their highest membership status" if you are only going to scruitinize the requirement without yourself having a more proficient or effective method?

With that being said, the NHIE isn't the only requirement, you also have to meet other requirements, so to make that statement is a pure generalization. Like I said in my previous post, get your FACTS straight! It's like dealing with disillusioned politicians that prefer to only see things their way. Gotta chuckle a bit I guess. :rolleyes:

Jerry McCarthy

03-07-2011, 04:25 PM

All of the questions contained in the exams used by NHIE and CREIA are supervised by professionally certified psychometric experts. This is vital in building an examination for a profession or industry. The questions are all weighted as to would an entry level home inspector candidate know the answer to the question posed. There are 4 answers to choose from for every question. One is correct the other three distracters ranging from close to correct to absurd. These exams are closed book as opposed to ICC exams which are open book. The entry exams are only one part of the hoops inspector candidates have to jump through before they are awarded membership in either ASHI or CREIA. BTW, the CREIA exams CCI & MCI are 150 questions each with a 2 hour time limit and given by the folks at ICC.

John Kogel

03-08-2011, 12:49 PM

Those of us that have been around for a few years know that your organization post and boast of its requirements but it does not enforce them. They might be on paper but that is it. I personally know 4 inspectors who have a membership in your organization as well as a few others; they all have said that they took the simple online exam, paid the fee and that is it. They have never done anything else to maintain their membership. They just send in the yearly check and life goes on.

Worth repeating. There are many reputable and professional inspectors in both of those orgs, but lack of enforcement allows for a lot of shiftiness on the iNACHI side. The honor system only works on the honorable inspectors.

Lisa Endza

03-08-2011, 03:35 PM

With that being said, the NHIE isn't the only requirement, you also have to meet other requirements, so to make that statement is a pure generalization. Like I said in my previous post, get your FACTS straight! It's like dealing with disillusioned politicians that prefer to only see things their way. Gotta chuckle a bit I guess.

This is news to me. Can you tell us what those other requirements are?

Dan Harris

03-08-2011, 04:45 PM

This is news to me. Can you tell us what those other requirements are?

Any one can go to American Society of Home Inspectors, ASHI (http://www.ashi.org) and see what they are. You know darn well what they are. Besides that it really doesn't matter what they are, it would be the requirements 97% of your members, that are not ASHI members can not meet. :)

Lisa Endza

03-08-2011, 04:52 PM

Dan says
Any one can go to American Society of Home Inspectors, ASHI and see what they are.I found them. Looks like there are three.

Let's see, pass an ethics quiz. Unethical inspectors give the right ethical answers on those, so that requirement is meaningless.

Submit some reports to see if they comply with SOP. Well, nowadays, all reporting forms and software produce SOP-compliant reports. That doesn't mean the inspection was done properly, so that requirement is meaningless too.

Oh yes, pass the very same beginner's exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school.

LOL! I don't agree with much of what my boss says, but I'm starting to see what he is talking about. :rolleyes:

Dan Harris

03-08-2011, 05:10 PM

What is a good national exam to take to be certified as a home inspector? NACHI or ASHI?

In the real world the end result is not what we think, it's what will the public think of you, and what association , and or other inspectors that you associate yourself with.
After reading all the crap and bashing of other inspectors from one association on this topic, my suggestion would be find two or three non inspectors in your family or local realtors, and send them to International Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) (http://www.nachi.org) and American Society of Home Inspectors, ASHI (http://www.ashi.org) then ask them what association would they hire an inspector from. :)

John Kogel

03-08-2011, 05:10 PM

I don't agree with much of what my boss says, but I'm starting to see what he is taking about. :rolleyes::D:D funny!

Randy King

03-09-2011, 07:31 AM

Lisa, the fact that you are within the realm of this argument considering you aren't even an inspector and quite obviously had to check to see what the other requirements just proves that you shouldn't even be involved in this argument or have an opinion.

You betlittle ASHI's requirements yet in my opinion they are far more involved than are inachi's and you propose nothing new or better, it's the same argument and point made by inachi over and over. If I understand this correctly, you are bashing ASHI's proctored test, the fact you have to prove the you performed 250 inspections, and you must pass a proctored ethical and standards test? Hmm...what does inachi do? Please, propose something better. If you really want to make an opinion about something get familiar with it, informed and have one that isn't your boss's. :D

Mike Moser

03-09-2011, 10:12 PM

I have taken and passed the ASHI as well as NAHI (National Association of Home Inspectors) I also took and passed the INTERNACHI exam ( it used to be NACHI but was sued over and over again on name infringement and lost each time ). I found the NAHI test to be the most difficult and the INTERNACHI the easiest . The NAHI test has also has had national certification for years (ASHI is not the only one)
Having passed the tests I further submited reports and became a CRI at NAHI. I also belong to the Minnesota Society of Housing Inspectors.
In short any test or credentials are good marketing tools and all have limitations . Pursue all but realize they are only tools.

The sharing of ideas and contact with other inspectors in your organizations will do much more to build your knowledge and or competence. Market your associations as well as credentails.

Lisa Endza

03-09-2011, 10:22 PM

Since you brought it up, this is something I know about. I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but InterNACHI was incorporated two years before your little association sued. Look it up, it is public information online. Nick duped your association into spending all your money to get him to do something he was already doing. Look at the date of this contest on the old message board. (http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=9032&start=0) While our in-house legal team got you to spend all your money on attorney fees, InterNACHI was already built and waiting to launch. Ever wonder why your association has no membership benefits (http://www.nachi.org/benefits.htm) but your attorney has a Mercedes Benz? Now you know. Worse for you, you settled with Nick for no money! How did that work out for your group? LOL! Does your mini association even have any members left? He played you like a violin.

Mike Moser

03-09-2011, 10:43 PM

Shame Linda

You apparantly have no response to my post other than to try to badmouth and cover the fact that my post was correct. I was working on MN State Licsensing during the legal troubles internachi had with NAHI. I am well aware of the issues and followed the court proceedings with interest.
I have all the public court records as well as the public decisions including follow up of Nick's failure to obey the court's ruling . They do not paint internachi in a positive manner . If you want a pissing match so be it . They can all be posted as they are public record.

NAHI at least has shown credibility and integrity unlike you . They were willing to spend money to correct plagurization . They won and the industry is better because of it. It is called " ethics " to stand for what is fair and honest.

The intent of the forum and my post was to let my peers ( professional inspectors not a marketing hack ) realize that all tests and creditials can help in advertising ,but by themselves they do not make a good inspector.
How about you let professional inspectors comment and sit on the sidelines ? sshhhh !

Your reply to my post ending " lol " shows lack of intrelligence as it is no laughing matter.

Mike Moser

03-09-2011, 10:48 PM

opps sorry Lisa

you are so well known I called you Linda LOL

Lisa Endza

03-09-2011, 11:13 PM

Darren Miller

03-10-2011, 04:11 AM

You got played. Now you're irrelevant. Take it like a man.

The peon's don't fall far from the tree hey?
Sounds like Nicky talking there.

Two days ago I stated I was beginning to like you Lisa; I take all that back.
The Kool-aid was spiked extra strong prior to that last post.

It's my opinion, exams and licensing requirements are too soft too easy. NACHI was leading the way to lower the standards and requirements to become a home inspector.
Now that the market is flooded with what I consider to be less than qualified inspectors, it the consumer who suffers.
Marketing, making someone 'look' better than they really are is, unfortunately is the way of the world.

Certified move-in
Certified master inspector

The people who think this s--t up are what I consider to be 'certifyable'.

NACHI wins the award hands down for the title 'The Fleecing of America'

Lisa Endza

03-10-2011, 07:54 AM

We are open to consider constructive criticism and always looking for ways to improve the profession. You complain about "less than qualified inspectors." Here is a list of InterNACHI's approved inspector training. (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm) Would you please post your group's list here?

Mike Moser

03-10-2011, 08:57 AM

Lisa, Lisa

Once again tooting your own horn and ignoring what the post was about. This is typical with you it seems.

It appears you feed off others comments and are paid to monitor the site.
I think I will ignore you and just read and listen to inspectors as you are a waste of time.

Darren Miller

03-10-2011, 10:10 AM

We are open to consider constructive criticism and always looking for ways to improve the profession. You complain about "less than qualified inspectors." Would you please post your group's list here?

Sure-

http://nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/forms/pdf_licensing/ucc_spring_2011_brochure.pdf

And uh, don't even go to where you're thinking of going.

Randy King

03-10-2011, 12:26 PM

Lisa, you are a pathetic example of your organization. All you do by making your worthless and biased statements is show people to what level you are continually willing to stoop to. You're a great representation of your org. and why so many people prefer to steer the direction of more professional avenues regardless of what you offer in regards to members' benefits.

The people that have posted here like Mike and I have formulated opinions based upon experience, actually being an inspector, which I am sure you no little about and trial. This isn't because we think inachi is better or isn't, acutally I plain don't really care other than the fact that you tout so much yet fall so very short of the actually reality at hand.

Like I said before, what do you truly know about the situation other than what has been fed to you through your position at inachi? Do you even know what the rest of the HI industry associations are really like? Have you ever been a member or had the opportunity to take all of the tests available as an inspector? Then how do you really know a damn thing? Let's face it, YOU DON'T! :D

Furthermore, why in the world would you be proud of the fact that you "intentionally" as you say keep another organization in court? That is plain classless and un-professional. Can someone say, LOSER or how about a lack of integrity. Oh, wait working at inachi you probably have no idea what integrity is.

By the way, if you are going to claim to be open to constructive criticism, acutally be open to it, don't pretend to be. Also, the link which you posted may be "InterNachi's approved inspector training" but by no means are the requirements to become "InterNachi Certified", but nice try of trying to create an image of such. You mine as well go back to your board where more of the people will actually believe your bull$#@!.

You got played, take it like a man! ;)

Mike Moser

03-10-2011, 01:30 PM

Well said Randy !!!!

Dan Harris

03-10-2011, 01:53 PM

Now compare your group to InterNACHI. You barely have any members left and no membership benefits. In contrast, InterNACHI grew into a global conglomerate with operations all over the world. You got played. Now you're irrelevant. Take it like a man.

Take it like a man??? What the heck are you talking about. The truth is a little HI org stood up and defended their their legal rights and cleaned your clock. :)

Ever since it's been proven in the courts that YOUR irrelevent, you resort to name calling lying and bashing the ones that kicked your butt, like a baby girl in hopes of getting back, since you were exposed for what you are.

Membership benefits, who are you to decide what association an inspector should join, and what benefits they want or should have.
All one has to do is go to your BB and see where nicko claimed your members use less that 10% of the crap you have anyways.

You may be impressing a few newbys, all I see with your crap about being the biggest is. The one that brags about having the biggest is the one thats the most insecure and has the smallest. :D

Bruce Ramsey

03-10-2011, 07:28 PM

Ok, Ok, Ok. Everyone take a breath and take 2 steps back.

This has degenerated into another pissing match that my association is better than yours. In the words of Rodney, Can't we all just get along?

Each association has its merits. We all have our personal favorites. This has been hashed out way too many times before. Each is setup differently with different goals. Home inspectors want different results from their association and so choose the one that best helps them meet those goals. Therefore join the one that meets your goals and don't worry about the other associations.

If you must post about your favorite association, sell me on the good points. If the only way you can convince me your association is good is by telling me how bad the other is, then your association has nothing to offer. Telling me how bad the others are does not make yours better.

But mostly just stop the incessent bickering you whinny little brats.

Darren Miller

03-11-2011, 05:13 AM

If the only way you can convince me your association is good is by telling me how bad the other is, then your association has nothing to offer. Telling me how bad the others are does not make yours better.

Hey Bruce

I am an independent inspector; currently I do not belong to any association.

I compare Lisa's spewing to that of Donald Trump (whom I despise). Everything he does is always 'the biggest', 'the most expensive', 'the best in the world' etc. It's like when he talks, he's trying to convince himself let alone the people listening (I know, I know, if you believe it, it's not a lie right?)

Anyway, I witnessed first hand how NACHI lowered the standards for home inspections. This happened wayyyyy back in the early 2000's.

NJ had set the requirements to become a licensed HI which include 300 hours of classroom work. Some guy cried the blues, saying it was too hard for him to achieve. He went looking for help and there was NACHI who took up his cause.
Anyway, a fight ensued, the lobbyists got rich and the standards got lowered to only 180 hours of classroom.
I'm a big advocate for making the standards tougher; to make our profession something other professionals respect; not what it is today.

How many times have you heard another professional talk down about us or actually laugh because, as he asks his client "was your inspector blind?'

In the trades, a 'master carpenter' is someone who is top notch; he's earned the title. What are the requirements to become a 'certified master inspector'? I been doing this for 15 years with well over 7,000 inspections; should one be considered a 'master' just because of the number of inspections or because they really are GREAT at what they do?

Bruce, what would it take YOU to certify a house is in move-in condition?
Oh, wait, NACHI doesn't certify the house, the owner does? Come on, just another 'scam' that an oblivious public gets fleeced on.

I'm not promoting any association, I just shining the light on questionable practices of a certain one.

Lisa Endza

03-11-2011, 06:40 AM

what would it take YOU to certify a house is in move-in condition?What do you think you've done on a traditional buyer's inspection when you don't find any major defects?

The only difference is that on a traditional buyer's inspection, you are working for a client who is moving IN to the home you inspected. For liability reasons, wouldn't you rather work for a client who is moving OUT of the home you inspected?

The Move In Certified program makes sense for inspectors.

Scott Patterson

03-11-2011, 06:57 AM

What do you think you've done on a traditional buyer's inspection when you don't find any major defects?

The only difference is that on a traditional buyer's inspection, you are working for a client who is moving IN to the home you inspected. For liability reasons, wouldn't you rather work for a client who is moving OUT of the home you inspected?

The Move In Certified program makes sense for inspectors.

Lisa, this comment just shows that you do not have a clue about the profession and conducting a home inspection.

First, we do not certify anything. We report what we find, tell our client what will happen if it is not repaired and then give them direction as to who needs to make the repair. I should say that this is how it should go..

Second, the inspectors liability is the same. If you screw-up for either a buyer or seller you will be held accountable. It makes no difference if it is for a seller or a buyer.

Third, when I have done an inspection for a buyer and the home has already had an inspection by the seller. I always find additional items that were not in the report.

Pre-listing inspections are not the answer, they tend to provide the owner with a false sense of security. I provide them buy I do not market them... :)

Ted Menelly

03-11-2011, 06:59 AM

Hey Bruce

I am an independent inspector; currently I do not belong to any association.

I compare Lisa's spewing to that of Donald Trump (whom I despise). Everything he does is always 'the biggest', 'the most expensive', 'the best in the world' etc. It's like when he talks, he's trying to convince himself let alone the people listening (I know, I know, if you believe it, it's not a lie right?)

Anyway, I witnessed first hand how NACHI lowered the standards for home inspections. This happened wayyyyy back in the early 2000's.

NJ had set the requirements to become a licensed HI which include 300 hours of classroom work. Some guy cried the blues, saying it was too hard for him to achieve. He went looking for help and there was NACHI who took up his cause.
Anyway, a fight ensued, the lobbyists got rich and the standards got lowered to only 180 hours of classroom.
I'm a big advocate for making the standards tougher; to make our profession something other professionals respect; not what it is today.

How many times have you heard another professional talk down about us or actually laugh because, as he asks his client "was your inspector blind?'

In the trades, a 'master carpenter' is someone who is top notch; he's earned the title. What are the requirements to become a 'certified master inspector'? I been doing this for 15 years with well over 7,000 inspections; should one be considered a 'master' just because of the number of inspections or because they really are GREAT at what they do?

Bruce, what would it take YOU to certify a house is in move-in condition?
Oh, wait, NACHI doesn't certify the house, the owner does? Come on, just another 'scam' that an oblivious public gets fleeced on.

I'm not promoting any association, I just shining the light on questionable practices of a certain one.

Texas just lowered the passing score on the exam because the schools needed accreditation and to many were not passing the test.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous for schools of any kind to be lowering requirement and passing scores.

With home inspectors there should be a required field experience such as a eriod of time in construction, construction management classes related to home inspection then a real course of 500 to 600 hours of solid class study followed by an apprenticeship for a year and then another year as a Real Estate Inspector and then and only then move on to a Professional Home Inspector.

A plumber has to put in his dues. An electrician has to put in his dues. Both cannot just walk out the door with just a small class under their belt and a lowered test score to come out that door as a Master Plumber or Master electrician.

Darren Miller

03-11-2011, 07:11 AM

What do you think you've done on a traditional buyer's inspection when you don't find any major defects?

The only difference is that on a traditional buyer's inspection, you are working for a client who is moving IN to the home you inspected. For liability reasons, wouldn't you rather work for a client who is moving OUT of the home you inspected?

The Move In Certified program makes sense for inspectors.

You just don't get it.

When you 'certify' something, you should be guaranteeing that product. When you buy a certified pre-owned car, the dealership will make repairs on things that break-down within a certain time period.

I have NEVER inspected a home that I could 'guarantee'. (I have never inspected a house; even a brand new house, that didn't have problems- I have not met the 'perfect' house)
My reports clearly define areas that need repairs or items past their life expectancy. I cannot guarantee something that is in need of repair or past it's life expectancy.

But there you go again; shifting liability. "hey buyer, this house is certified, but if there's a problem, look at the seller not me."

I'm willing to bet that your organization has a 'generic' agreement for your members. I wonder how many times it says "This inspection is NOT a guarantee or warranty"

You talking out of both sides of your mouth here Lisa.

I have done plenty of 'pre-listing inspections'. I tell the owner and potential buyers the condition of the house. I don't 'scam' people into believing something is better than it really is.

'people wake up; figure it out...' (fz)

Lisa Endza

03-11-2011, 07:16 AM

First, we do not certify anything. We report what we find, tell our client what will happen if it is not repaired and then give them direction as to who needs to make the repair. You missed the point. The point is that if you FAIL to find a major defect that exists, your client, the buyer, would have treated you no differently than if you had certified there were no major defects. Ask any inspector who has been sued. With Move In Certified, you don't work for the buyer.

Second, the inspectors liability is the same. If you screw-up for either a buyer or seller you will be held accountable. It makes no difference if it is for a seller or a buyer. It makes a huge difference. Again, who would you rather have as a client from a liability standpoint? A buyer moving IN to the home you inspected? Or a seller moving OUT of the home you inspected and heading to Toledo. Ask your attorney. She'll explain it better.

Third, when I have done an inspection for a buyer and the home has already had an inspection by the seller. I always find additional items that were not in the report. That's a bad thing? Let's make up a worst-case scenario Scott. Let's say you say you do a Move In Certified inspection for the seller and you report that the roof is new, but in fact it needs to be totally replaced. And let's say the buyer's inspector finds out that you goofed up. Congratulations! The second inspector saved you and eliminated your damages. Sure, you might be embarrassed having been "shown up" by another inspector, but the buyer suffers no damages because someone caught the defect in time. What would you rather be? Wrong and have to buy a roof for your client? Or wrong and not have to buy a roof for your client? Ask your accountant. She'll know.

Scott Patterson

03-11-2011, 07:29 AM

You missed the point. The point is that if you FAIL to find a major defect that exists, your client, the buyer, would have treated you no differently than if you had certified there were no major defects. Ask any inspector who has been sued. With Move In Certified, you don't work for the buyer.

It makes a huge difference. Again, who would you rather have as a client from a liability standpoint? A buyer moving IN to the home you inspected? Or a seller moving OUT of the home you inspected and heading to Toledo. Ask your attorney. She'll explain it better.

That's a bad thing? Let's make up a worst-case scenario Scott. Let's say you say you do a Move In Certified inspection for the seller and you report that the roof is new, but in fact it needs to be totally replaced. And let's say the buyer's inspector finds out that you goofed up. Congratulations! The second inspector saved you and eliminated your damages. Sure, you might be embarrassed having been "shown up" by another inspector, but the buyer suffers no damages because someone caught the defect in time. What would you rather be? Wrong and have to buy a roof for your client? Or wrong and not have to buy a roof for your client? Ask your accountant. She'll know.

Lisa, again your attempt at a rebuttal is sad. As I said before, you do not have a clue about our profession and your post confirms it. You are a paid shill who can only spout verbaige that promotes your company, nothing more or less.

If you are telling your members that a "Certified Move-In" inspection has less liability than an inspection for a buyer you are doing them a disservice. Just ask any attorney outside of your organization.

Lisa Endza

03-11-2011, 07:35 AM

If you are telling your members that a "Certified Move-In" inspection has less liability than an inspection for a buyer you are doing them a disservice. Just ask any attorney outside of your organization.LOL! We had a cash contest already. Every attorney agreed with us. If you can find an attorney who thinks there is more liability associated with Move In Certified than with a traditional inspection, bring him on.

Lisa, again your attempt at a rebuttal is sad. As I said before, you do not have a clue about our profession and you post confirms it. You are a paid shill who can only spout verbaige that promotes your company, nothing more or less.No Scott, what is "sad" is when you can't pick on my flawless arguments in post #66, you switch and pick on me and call me names.

Dan Harris

03-11-2011, 07:50 AM

LOL! We had a cash contest already. Every attorney agreed with us. If you can find an attorney who thinks there is more liability associated with Move In Certified than with a traditional inspection, bring him on.
.

LOL.. You are forgetting to disclose that 98% of your certifed inspectors that certified a home will be out of business before anyone is able to locate them and file a law suit against them.
So yes you are correct. The only poor fool that's left with any money for the lawyers to go after, is the home seller that bought into the certified crap.

Scott Patterson

03-11-2011, 08:33 AM

LOL! We had a cash contest already. Every attorney agreed with us. If you can find an attorney who thinks there is more liability associated with Move In Certified than with a traditional inspection, bring him on.

No Scott, what is "sad" is when you can't pick on my flawless arguments in post #66, you switch and pick on me and call me names.

Lisa, as I said.... You are a paid shill for Nick and his club. Nothing more, nothing less. Your job is to promote the club at any expense or exaggeration to the facts or truths at hand.

I don't know what "cash contest" means, is or was. Would you care to post the name of the attorneys that agree with your opine?

Lisa Endza

03-11-2011, 08:59 AM

Yours. Ask her. Direct her to my post #66.

But I really don't care if you participate in the Move In Certified program or not. I was only explaining why it provides reduced liability in comparison to what you do now.

Darren Miller

03-11-2011, 09:16 AM

but the buyer suffers no damages because someone caught the defect in time.

Actually Lisa, you are completely wrong.
If I hired someone to conduct a pre-listing inspection and then another inspector came along and found the roof needs to be replaced and I lost that deal; my pre-listing inspector would be sued for damages as a result of the deal falling through.

"LOL! We had a cash contest already. Every attorney agreed with us. If you can find an attorney who thinks there is more liability associated with Move In Certified than with a traditional inspection, bring him on."

I don't know or believe if anyone stated more liability but they would be liable and hopefully triple damages because of fraud.

But hey; I'm done here- clearly the kool-aid has taken it's toll.

C.Johnson

03-11-2011, 09:30 AM

That's a bad thing? Let's make up a worst-case scenario Scott. Let's say you say you do a Move In Certified inspection for the seller and you report that the roof is new, but in fact it needs to be totally replaced. And let's say the buyer's inspector finds out that you goofed up. Congratulations! The second inspector saved you and eliminated your damages. Sure, you might be embarrassed having been "shown up" by another inspector, but the buyer suffers no damages because someone caught the defect in time. What would you rather be? Wrong and have to buy a roof for your client? Or wrong and not have to buy a roof for your client? Ask your accountant. She'll know.

Lisa....In your scenario your "move in certified" can and probably would be held accountable.
Seller Inspector states "roofing is new"...
Buyers Inspector states "NO roofing is old and needs replaced"....
Let's see here, (assuming that the buyer's inspector is correct) since it is required for sellers to disclose information about the home, then my thought is that it will be stated in the "move in certified" report the roof was in good condition by said "move in certified" inspection..
That being said, when the buyer's inspector points out that the roof is defective and needs to be replaced.

What will happen? Now the buyer wants a new roof
Who will pay for it? IMO the buyer will come back with a request for the roof to be repaired or $$$ off for such repairs.
How will this go over with the Seller? Not good I bet
Who will the seller go after for saying that the roof was good when in fact it is not? That's right the "move in certified" inspector...
So, who will end up paying? my guess the original inspector Mr. "move in certified" himself for not disclosing proper information on said home...

I'm sure there are a couple lawyers out there that would agree...
The fact is you assume liability when inspecting a home whether its for the seller or the buyer!

Lisa Endza

03-11-2011, 09:32 AM

If I hired someone to conduct a pre-listing inspection and then another inspector came along and found the roof needs to be replaced and I lost that deal; my pre-listing inspector would be sued for damages as a result of the deal falling through. Wrong. In that scenario, you didn't cause the deal to fall through. They buyer didn't walk because you missed the defective roof. They buyer walked because the roof was defective.

Lisa Endza

03-11-2011, 09:34 AM

The fact is you assume liability when inspecting a home whether its for the seller or the buyer! Duh. You just assume less liability when inspecting for the seller.

C.Johnson

03-11-2011, 09:41 AM

Duh. You just assume less liability when inspecting for the seller.

DUH! Real mature Lisa....I will resist the temptation to fall into the name calling/mud slinging that you and you organization feels so inclined to do.

Liability is EQUAL get a lawyer on here to tell me otherwise!

Good Day to you.....

Darren Miller

03-11-2011, 09:48 AM

Wrong. In that scenario, you didn't cause the deal to fall through. They buyer didn't walk because you missed the defective roof. They buyer walked because the roof was defective.

Actually you did cause the deal to fall through.

I based the sales price of the house on your inspection report.
I turned away a potential buyer who offered 7 thousand dollars less then this buyer (the 7k less buyer waived the home inspection, maybe he 'knew' the roof needed to be replaced).

My buyer walked because the roof needs to be replaced; I go back to the 7k less buyer who has closed on a different house. My home is sitting on the market for an additional 6 months; a financial loss that YOU caused because if you told me the roof needed to be replaced, I would have accepted the 7k less buyer who waived the inspection process.

Sorry, you (and your thought process) lose...

Darren Miller

03-11-2011, 09:50 AM

DUH! Real mature Lisa....

The kool-aid, the kool-aid; it was grape, then orange, now it a real lemon.

Rick Cantrell

03-11-2011, 11:09 AM

Relationship when working for the seller:

Seller point of view
Advocate, Trust, acceptance, consultant
Seller is more likely to discuss known problems with HI.

Buyer point of view
No direct relationship exist.
Liability has been reduced, but has not been removed completely.

Relationship when working for the buyer:

Buyer point of view, Advocate, Trust, acceptance, consultant
Seller point of view, Adversary, possible contempt, uncooperative
Seller is unlikely to discuss known problems with HI, you have to find them, ALL

Property damage Liability
No change, you are still liable for property damage you cause.
However when you are working for the seller, the seller perceives you as an advocate instead of an adversary, settlement for damages are likely to be easier.

E&O liability
When working for Buyer
To buyer, High liability
Liability is limited only by the contract, if that.
To seller, Very little if any liability

When working for seller
To seller, Little to some liability.

To buyer, Little if any liability.
Liability is greatly reduced because;
You did not contract with buyer
You recommended buyer to have and inspector that is working for them to inspect the house.
Therefore, Buyers HI will be first in line, and held more liable
If you are found liable, liability is likely to be shared with the other HI
If buyer does not obtain their own HI, they are responsible for their decision.

Lisa Endza

03-11-2011, 05:32 PM

Good post. Thank you Rick.

Justin Tyme

03-13-2011, 11:05 AM

Even a Google Search using the most relevant keywords 'Home Inspection Associations' shows the Nachos for what they always will be - 3rd Rate & last place.

Unfortunately, Google cannot recognize that it has mistakenly given the Nachos a page rank presence as an 'Association' when it appears to operate as a club - 'The Nickey Mouse Club'.

home inspection associations - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=home+inspection+associations&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1)

Lisa Endza

03-13-2011, 11:53 AM

'The Nickey Mouse Club'.Any first grader can call another association names. But sooner or later you have to start asking yourself the tough questions.

Why were InterNACHI's free, online courses awarded nearly 700 government approvals? Why does InterNACHI's website get 260 million hits a year? Why is InterNACHI so successful in so many countries around the world? Why does InterNACHI have so many members in both licensed and unlicensed states? Why is InterNACHI so popular in Canada? Why is InterNACHI able to offer so many money-making benefits for their dues? Why does InterNACHI's message board get so much activity. Why is InterNACHI's renewal rate so high? Why is InterNACHI able to provide so many inspection business success tools? Why are so many inspection industry vendors aligned with or owned by InterNACHI? Why, in the past couple years, when all other inspection associations were shrinking, did InterNACHI expand in so many areas? Why is InterNACHI so big in indoor air, commercial inspections, and infrared. Why does the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of Energy work with InterNACHI? Why is InterNACHI's website so amazing? Why do so many P.E.s join InterNACHI? Why are InterNACHI's advanced inspection courses so popular? Why did InterNACHI's website grow to over 235,000 pages? What is going on here? !!!

Or you can just sit back, scratch your head, and call us names.

Dan Harris

03-13-2011, 12:27 PM

Any first grader can call another association names. .

The truth is... There is only one leader/spokesperson of any association in the world, that stoops low enough,[ on an open to the public chat board] to call inspectors from other home inspector associations that don't buy into his lies and bashing... names.

What grade, or pre-school would that person be in ? :D

Ted Menelly

03-13-2011, 12:53 PM

Any first grader can call another association names. But sooner or later you have to start asking yourself the tough questions.

Why were InterNACHI's free, online courses awarded nearly 700 government approvals? Why does InterNACHI's website get 260 million hits a year? Why is InterNACHI so successful in so many countries around the world? Why does InterNACHI have so many members in both licensed and unlicensed states? Why is InterNACHI so popular in Canada? Why is InterNACHI able to offer so many money-making benefits for their dues? Why does InterNACHI's message board get so much activity. Why is InterNACHI's renewal rate so high? Why is InterNACHI able to provide so many inspection business success tools? Why are so many inspection industry vendors aligned with or owned by InterNACHI? Why, in the past couple years, when all other inspection associations were shrinking, did InterNACHI expand in so many areas? Why is InterNACHI so big in indoor air, commercial inspections, and infrared. Why does the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of Energy work with InterNACHI? Why is InterNACHI's website so amazing? Why do so many P.E.s join InterNACHI? Why are InterNACHI's advanced inspection courses so popular? Why did InterNACHI's website grow to over 235,000 pages? What is going on here? !!!

Or you can just sit back, scratch your head, and call us names.

Because you are a for profit corporation, not a home inspector association, no matter what you want to call it or list it as.

The profits, salary, what ever you want to call it to the higher ups/owners is staggering, no matter how they want to list it.

If non profit associations handled their business and the heads of those Associations made fortunes off of everything they did then theirs would be what you claim your company to be. It is not hard to figure out why a true non profit association like ASHI has a very large inspector list and always has. If the heads of non profits took in what the owner/s of your company did then theirs would seriously take off.

Just say there is 7,000 inspectors that pay INACHI 250.00. 7000x250=1,759,000.00 per year take. Now take all the money the owner gets from all the companies they push to all there 7,000 members etc etc etc etc. Now take the real numbers for the money coming in. I would say your companies owner makes himself a nice fat paycheck every year. Now take out what the owner pays folks for salaries and overhead. How many real employees, how much overhead, what is left over for the owner.

Your companies is nothing but a marketing corporation. Not home inspector association. I really do not want to think of what your companies owner really brings in.

Justin Tyme

03-13-2011, 04:33 PM

Wait a second! Let's get this into perspective here because it sounds like the Club Owner gets to keep most of that. If we follow Brian's 'Cost of doing Business' it would look more like this:

(Everyone can keep adding to the list if they so choose)

$500,000.00 (Expense) - Spent on Attorney to drive NAHI in circles so they waste their money. (What a ROI for club members - now that's some bragging rights)

$17.50/hr + $1.00/delusional post (Expense) - Emporer's acute paranoia requires having hired help to monitor the internet and perform damage control, even on a Sunday? (some chromosome damage there for sure after that last posted list)

$57.00 for oodles of FREE messageboard giveaways to those successful club members who only take that crap to be polite. (like toy poodles that haven't gotten their biscuit for two weeks)

$52,000.00 (Expense) Webmaster salary to create 235,000 webpages, only to rank last on the totem pole when someone searches the most significant search terms in the Home Inspection industry. (even the Google spider recognizes b^!!$*!t when it looks to rank a site with relevance)

$5,000.00 (Expense) Have Staff research and plan conventions which are never executed. (well worth it to have club members feel good during the short few month's of announcements only to be let down year after year)

$250,000.00 (Expense) Useless publications which eventually need to be given away as consolation prizes by the boxload because no one wants them. (can you guess who owns the printing company that prints that crap? No bids on those jobs for sure! You think the club members got overcharged?)

I could go on but you get the picture. The Club Owner is lucky to walk away with a pittance of salary while Nanette here at least earns overtime pay with every bit if dribble on this message board.

Lisa Endza

03-15-2011, 06:04 PM

So let me see if I have your theory right.

The brilliant theory you've come up with, which is supposed to explain why InterNACHI was awarded nearly 700 government approvals, why InterNACHI's website gets 260 million hits a year, why InterNACHI is so successful in so many countries around the world, why InterNACHI has so many members in both licensed and unlicensed states, why InterNACHI is so popular in Canada, why InterNACHI is able to offer so many money-making benefits for their dues, why InterNACHI's message board gets so much activity, why InterNACHI's renewal rate is so high, why InterNACHI is able to provide so many inspection business success tools, why so many inspection industry vendors are aligned with or owned by InterNACHI, why, in the past couple years, when all other inspection associations were shrinking, InterNACHI expanded in so many areas, why InterNACHI is so big in indoor air, commercial inspections, and infrared, why the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of Energy works with InterNACHI, why InterNACHI's website is so amazing, why do so many P.E.s join InterNACHI, why InterNACHI's advanced inspection courses are so popular, and why InterNACHI's website grew to over 235,000 pages, is because InterNACHI's staffers waste money and bilk the organization of all its funds.

Hm. Interesting theory. Maybe a few holes in it? LOL!

Randy King

03-16-2011, 10:22 AM

Lisa, we've all it heard before, your proud of your association and its so popular ;). I think it's time for you to tout your biased beliefs and opinons of your org. somewhere else. For the professional inspectors which actually work within this industry and have experienced the multiple facets of it, we all know what your org. and intentions are here and it's getting a little old. Go be an inspector for a few years, try some other flavors and then come back and tell us your opinions.

Justin Tyme

03-16-2011, 12:11 PM

Bruce,

Congrats on passing the NHIE.

It's a good milestone to raise your own bar of knowledge. Many of us have also taken the NAHI CRI exam, regardless of affiliation or not, to quench one's thirst for conquering a legitimate professional accolade.

Gentleman,

Cease engaging in conversation with a child that doesn't even own a business or have professional experience in the occupation of being a Home Inspector.

The repetitive dialogue is comparable to a dependent child who has no clue yet about life and helplessly succumbs to an adult to feeding it some puree'd green peas, only to regurgitate it over and over.

Ooops! Let me wipe that little bitty chin of yours. Maybe next time your Sugar Daddy will put a bib on you.

Everyone just give Bruce a pat on the back and leave quickly before the child gets some of that green stuff on you.

Dan Harris

03-16-2011, 06:22 PM

Gentleman,

Cease engaging in conversation with a child that doesn't even own a business or have professional experience in the occupation of being a Home Inspector.
.

Not a bad suggestion.. On the lead topic she made it clear to Gary S. that she is not here to share experiences in the field.
She's only here stalking us :D to sell memberships to her club.

Garry Sorrells

03-17-2011, 06:20 AM

Not a bad suggestion.. On the lead topic she made it clear to Gary S. that she is not here to share experiences in the field.
She's only here stalking us :D to sell memberships to her club.

Hold the phone !

I do not think that anything is clear.

Because this thread has turned into a pissing contest.

Clarity is a mater of perception.
No two people see the same thing, they see versions of that thing.

Lisa--- Since you are so very engaged in this thread would you answer the question that I have been trying to get answered on the thread dealing with the EPA RRP Certification?

Lead Abatement Enforcement http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/building-envelope-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/21919-lead-abatement-enforcement-new-post.html
Does InterNACHI have the certified trainers in place to provide the required hands on training as required for the completion of the InterNACHI free EPA RRP certification to members, so that the certification can be completed and registered with the EPA for that member????

Where are these certified trainers located ???
Are there any in the Baltimore - DC area ??

Why does this seem to be a top secret, that you have to join InterNACHI to get ( you said that that information is only offered to members )??

Is there a problem with confirming the validity of InterNACHI free certification offer to members| ??

Is there a problem with demonstrating to a prospective member that the certification is not a bogus offer ??

If the certification can not be used to register with the EPA then it is not worth much, if it can be registered with the EPA then it has great value,,, which is it?

Sorry folks for throwing this into your pissing match. So many axes to grind and so little time. Not intended to distract you, but just trying to get an answer to what I thought was a simple question of confirmation of an offers validity. Getting a little frustrated in the other thread...

Justin Tyme

03-17-2011, 04:53 PM

Garry,

I warned you. Looks like she got some on ya'.

You've been Punk'd by NACHO

Lisa Endza

03-17-2011, 08:51 PM

Lisa--- Since you are so very engaged in this thread would you answer the question that I have been trying to get answered on the thread dealing with the EPA RRP Certification?

Lead Abatement Enforcement http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...-new-post.html (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/building-envelope-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/21919-lead-abatement-enforcement-new-post.html)
Does InterNACHI have the certified trainers in place to provide the required hands on training as required for the completion of the InterNACHI free EPA RRP certification to members, so that the certification can be completed and registered with the EPA for that member????

Where are these certified trainers located ???
Are there any in the Baltimore - DC area ??

Why does this seem to be a top secret, that you have to join InterNACHI to get ( you said that that information is only offered to members )??

Is there a problem with confirming the validity of InterNACHI free certification offer to members| ??

Is there a problem with demonstrating to a prospective member that the certification is not a bogus offer ??

If the certification can not be used to register with the EPA then it is not worth much, if it can be registered with the EPA then it has great value,,, which is it?Answered in order asked.
Yes.
Yes.
Across the U.S.
Yes.
So that non-members like you don't call our instructors and ask them a bunch of questions like the ones you've asked here.
No, there is not a problem. You can see the EPA certificate here. (http://www.nachi.org/epa-rpp.htm) I guess you would have to call the EPA to "confirm it's validity."
No, there is not a problem, but it isn't an offer, it is an InterNACHI course and an InterNACHI member benefit. None of our 700 government approvals are "bogus" but it shouldn't matter since it isn't available to you anyway.
Yes, it can be used.

Ken Rowe

03-17-2011, 10:19 PM

Why does InterNACHI's website get 260 million hits a year? Why is InterNACHI so successful in so many countries around the world? Why does InterNACHI have so many members in both licensed and unlicensed states? Why is InterNACHI so popular in Canada? Why is InterNACHI able to offer so many money-making benefits for their dues? Why does InterNACHI's message board get so much activity. Why is InterNACHI's renewal rate so high? Why is InterNACHI able to provide so many inspection business success tools? Why are so many inspection industry vendors aligned with or owned by InterNACHI? Why, in the past couple years, when all other inspection associations were shrinking, did InterNACHI expand in so many areas? Why is InterNACHI so big in indoor air, commercial inspections, and infrared. Why does the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Department of Energy work with InterNACHI? Why is InterNACHI's website so amazing? Why do so many P.E.s join InterNACHI? Why are InterNACHI's advanced inspection courses so popular? Why did InterNACHI's website grow to over 235,000 pages? What is going on here? !!!

Why? Because for the low, low price of $289 and by completing an online spelling test anyone can become a Nachi Certified Home Inspector and start duping the home buyers to pay them to do something they have no business doing. Nachi promises to never audit your records and works hard to keep outsiders from investigating their business practices. So don't worry about that pesky independent third party certification. Nachi doesn't need that outside certification. You passed your spelling test and your check didn't bounce so you're Nachi Certified. And, as long as you keep paying your fees each year, you can keep duping the public. Nachi was made with the intention to make money for Nicko. As a real estate agent he saw how easy it was to pass out certifications to home inspectors so they could advertise themselves as Certified. Knowing certified has no meaning whatsoever without independent third party accreditation and knowing the general public wasn't aware of this he decided to capitalize on it and make a ton of cash. So for the inspectors looking for the easy way out, they choose the Nicky Mouse Club. For those of us who actually take pride in our profession we take the road less traveled.

Lisa Endza

03-17-2011, 10:50 PM

Which of the certification courses (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm) are you talking about? I've taken most of them and I don't remember any spelling questions. Most are in excess of 25,000 words with hundreds of photos and diagrams, embedded video, downloadable course material, dozens of quizzes, and long final exams.

It is my job to submit hard-copy versions to government agencies for approval. Many of them, when printed out, end up being a 6" thick stack of paper. If you piled up all the hard-copy versions, the stack would be over 4 foot tall.

For example, InterNACHI's EPA-approved lead certification course, which is the topic this thread drifted to, is very robust for an 8-hour course.

InterNACHI's online Lead Safety for Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) course includes:
10 sections;
312-page student manual (downloadable PDF);
5 instructional videos;
many pictures and graphics;
8 quizzes;
a 45-question final exam (drawn from a larger pool);
instant grading;
a downloadable, printable Certificate of Completion; and
EPA approval, accreditations and state approvals.And it covers the following categories:
Introduction
Welcome
Course Agenda
Training Manual Overview
You Will Learn
Module 1
Why Be Concerned About Lead?
What is Lead-Based Paint?
Symptoms of Lead Poisoning
Tiny Amounts of Lead
Why are Dust and Debris a Problem?
A Little Dust Goes a Long Way
Sweetener Packet Math
Contractor Discusses Lead
Parent Discusses Child Poisoning
Now You Know
You Should Know
Module 2
Regulations
EPA HUD OSHA
The RRP Rule
The RRP Rule: Exclusions
Opt-Out Provision
Firm Certification
Firm Responsibilities
Individual Certification
Certified Renovator Responsibilities
Work Practice Standards
Enforcement
HUD’s Lead Safe Housing Rule
HUD’s Work Safe Practices
HUD’s Rule and Differences
Know the EPA and HUD Rules
State and Local Regulations
Now You Know
Module 3
Before Beginning Work
Educate Owners and Residents
How Widespread is Lead-Based Paint?
Determine if Lead-Based Paint is Present
EPA-Recognized Test Kits
Test Kits Video
Testing and Lead Safe Practices
Hands-On: Test Kit
Using Decision Logic Charts
Now You Know
Module 4
Contain Dust During Work
What is Containment?
Keep Dust Within the Containment
Limit Access and Post Signs
Remove or Cover Belongings
Cover Floors
Close Windows, Doors & HVAC
Work Area Entry Doorway
Overview of Interior Containment Steps
Exterior Containment
Establish Work Area
Close Windows and Doors
Extra Precautions
Overview of Exterior Containment Steps
Prepare the Work Area Video
Hands-On Exercises
Skill Set #2 through #5
Debrief of Hands-On Exercise
Now You Know
Module 5
Overview
During the Work
Traditional Renovations Create Dust
Prohibited Practices
Specialized Tools
Protect Yourself
Control the Spread of Dust
Cleaning During the Job
Exercise: PPE
Skill Set #6
Now You Know
Module 6
Cleaning Activities and Checking Your Work
Effective Cleanup
Interior Cleaning Requirements
Visual Inspection Procedure
Cleaning Verification Procedure
Dust Clearance Examination
Exterior Cleanup Requirements
Checking Effectiveness of Cleaning
Disposal
Disposal: Fed, State and Local
Exercise: Cleaning
Skill Set #7 through #11
Now You Know
You Should Know
Module 7
Recordkeeping
On-The-Job Records
Pre-Renovation Education Records
Sample Confirmation of Receipt
Non-Certified Worker Training
Test Kit Reporting
Post-Renovation Reporting
Now You Know
You Should Know
Module 8
Training Non-Certified Renovation Workers
Training Responsibility
Teaching Lead Safe Practices
The Role of the Certified
The Role of the Non-Certified
Teaching Lead Safety
Use the “Steps” Guide
Steps 1 through 7
Training Documentation
Now You Know
You Should Know
Appendices
Appendix #1: RRP Rule
Appendix #2: HUD Requirements
Appendix #3: Renovate Right
Appendix #4: Compliance Guide
Appendix #5: LEAD SAFE
Appendix #6: Exercise
Appendix #7: State and Local Regs
Appendix #8: Waste Generated
Appendix #9: More InformationNow if you personally believe it should be longer, don't complain to InterNACHI, the EPA mandated the outline. The EPA is a Federal agency, so complain to the White House I guess.

I couldn't help noticing that you have an ASHI logo on your website. Do you really think that a member of ASHI, a society that still has no approved courses, should be complaining about InterNACHI and its 700 government approvals? Kind of like a Junior High cheerleader complaining about the NFL.

Darren Miller

03-18-2011, 03:16 AM

Which of the certification courses (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm) are you talking about? I've taken most of them and I don't remember any spelling questions.

Lisa, now you done did it!

The above statement says it all.
You have taken (and probably passed) most of the certification courses. According to NACHI, YOU are now a Certified Home Inspector. Yet, you probably have never completed a home inspection.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE???????

Opps, open mouth, insert foot!!!!

Garry Sorrells

03-18-2011, 03:33 AM

Answered in order asked.
Yes.
Yes.
Across the U.S.
Yes.
So that non-members like you don't call our instructors and ask them a bunch of questions like the ones you've asked here.
No, there is not a problem. You can see the EPA certificate here. (http://www.nachi.org/epa-rpp.htm) I guess you would have to call the EPA to "confirm it's validity."
No, there is not a problem, but it isn't an offer, it is an InterNACHI course and an InterNACHI member benefit. None of our 700 government approvals are "bogus" but it shouldn't matter since it isn't available to you anyway.
Yes, it can be used.

Back to the major question that you can not answer with any clarity.
Ok, you say that there are certified instructors that can complete the EPA RRP on-line certification course in the Baltimore area. How far from Baltimore would someone have to go to get the hands on training that is require??

You say that you are refusing to provide evidence that these EPA RRP certified training instructors on the basis that you don't want people (InterNACHI non-members) calling them to ask questions.

Its not about asking them questions it is about just verifying that they exist and are certified to train.

Their certification can be checked on-line.

No need to call other than to see if in fact they are actually participating with InternNACHI as instructors.

To often claims are made that fall short when scrutinized closely.
I like many no longer take any claim at face value, we want to see that it is true via verification.

Something that sounds to good to be true, usually isn't that good.

Prove me wrong. Provide some verifiable verification that there are actually InterNACHI EPA RRP certified instructors participating in the free training.

Are there any of these instructors within 30 miles of Baltimore, Maryland????????

David Nice

03-18-2011, 12:40 PM

<snip> Kind of like a Junior High cheerleader complaining about the NFL.

Good One. Your in rare form. There is a lot of that going around. Perhaps Inspector Outlet should sell them some pom-poms.

Ken Rowe

03-18-2011, 01:19 PM

Which of the certification courses (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm) are you talking about?

I couldn't help noticing that you have an ASHI logo on your website. Do you really think that a member of ASHI, a society that still has no approved courses, should be complaining about InterNACHI and its 700 government approvals? Kind of like a Junior High cheerleader complaining about the NFL.

I'm talking about the short quiz you give online in order to join and claim to be certified once the spelling quiz is passes and the fees are paid. I'm not talking about the other sham online, non proctored quizzes you have.

Yes, I have an ASHI logo on my website. It's something that I earned. I didn't just pay my dues and take a spelling test. Plus, ASHI doesn't require I use their logo, like Nicko does. I used it because I've earned it and I'm proud of it. But, I don't speak for ASHI. As far as I know no employee or owner of ASHI has ever publicly complained about any other group of inspectors. Keep in mind, ASHI is an association. It is not a business or a school. It doesn't provide the training needed to be an inspector. Nachi, on the other hand, is a business with a sole owner, a real estate agent, who deceives the public by portraying his business as an association.

It's funny how you didn't even bother to defend the allegations that I levied, but chose to answer with another free ad.

David Nice

03-18-2011, 01:35 PM

$500,000.00 (Expense) - Spent on Attorney to drive NAHI in circles so they waste their money. (What a ROI for club members - now that's some bragging rights)

.

You revealed how bogus your contentions are when you lead off legal matters that were brought on by NAHI to drive NACHI in circles and waste their money by bringing a frivolous suit that would have ended up wasting everyone's money.

NACHI moved quickly to end the action by settling to prevent the bleeding of members money by settling in a very generous way by changing the logo (and even the name).
The joke is, had this actually gone to court it would have done more damage to NAHI than it would have to NACHI.

The primary issue was over the allegation that the NACHI logo was too similar to the NAHI logo. Now, if anyone actually would take time to look at the two logos side by side it would show just how ludicrous the allegation was. The legal filing actually cited the use of a house in the logo made it too much like the NAHI logo. The allegations in the filing went on with line after line of allegations that were pulled out of thin air and could and would never be found to be true.

Back to the point. Since your first example is so totally turned around, what might that say about the rest of your drivel? (Rhetorical Question).

Ken Rowe

03-18-2011, 02:11 PM

Again, this is something I know everything about because I was there. Our in-house attorneys intentionally kept you in court for so long to keep you spending. Even the judge figured out what the Cohens were doing and got mad at us. You sued for millions, but in the end, flat broke, you settled with Nick for no money! You ended up with nothing but legal bills. All you did was spend your members' dues to make Nick do something he had already done years earlier. Look it up. (http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/TradeNameSummary.do?quitButtonDestination=Business EntityResults&nameTyp=TRDNM&masterFileId=20051109670&entityId2=20051109670&srchTyp=TRDNM&fileId=20051109670) Now compare your group to InterNACHI. You barely have any members left and no membership benefits. In contrast, InterNACHI grew into a global conglomerate with operations all over the world. You got played. Now you're irrelevant. Take it like a man.

You revealed how bogus your contentions are when you lead off legal matters that were brought on by NAHI to drive NACHI in circles and waste their money by bringing a frivolous suit that would have ended up wasting everyone's money.

NACHI moved quickly to end the action by settling to prevent the bleeding of members money by settling in a very generous way by changing the logo (and even the name).
The joke is, had this actually gone to court it would have done more damage to NAHI than it would have to NACHI.

The primary issue was over the allegation that the NACHI logo was too similar to the NAHI logo. Now, if anyone actually would take time to look at the two logos side by side it would show just how ludicrous the allegation was. The legal filing actually cited the use of a house in the logo made it too much like the NAHI logo. The allegations in the filing went on with line after line of allegations that were pulled out of thin air and could and would never be found to be true.

Back to the point. Since your first example is so totally turned around, what might that say about the rest of your drivel? (Rhetorical Question).

Apparently what Nachi actually did and what they told their members were two different things. lol