Citadel Insurance

[Dennis Robitaille]

Looking to see if anyone has dealt with Citadel Insurance. A Ryan Osborne contacted me from that company and is promoting the InspectorPro Insurance Program. They are quoting 1/2 the cost of the FREA insurance I have. I'm leery for a few reasons, one being the depth (lack of) of questions asked to qualify for the insurance. He said Loyds of London was the underwriter.

Their deductible was $1500 as compared to $1000 for FREA.

I did a search on this forum and didn't come up with anything.

Update - The Insurance Division does not have them listed as being licensed in MA. An email sent to Ryan Osborne yesterday concerning this has not been responded to.

[Ron Bibler]

Looking to see if anyone has dealt with Citadel Insurance. A Ryan Osborne contacted me from that company and is promoting the InspectorPro Insurance Program. They are quoting 1/2 the cost of the FREA insurance I have. I'm leery for a few reasons, one being the depth (lack of) of questions asked to qualify for the insurance. He said Loyds of London was the underwriter.

Their deductible was $1500 as compared to $1000 for FREA.

I did a search on this forum and didn't come up with anything.

I have Loyds of London... No issue no other information...

No info on Citadel Insurance. or Ryan Osborne

Best

Ron

[Jim Luttrall]

Be careful, I don't know anything about them but it seems every few years there is another shyster scamming inspectors. Check them out with your state insurance department.

[Ron Bibler]

Be careful, I don't know anything about them but it seems every few years there is another shyster scamming inspectors. Check them out with your state insurance department.

You can contact LOYDS...

Best

Ron

[A.D. Miller]

You can contact LOYDS...

Best

Ron

RB: Why not?

Contact us (http://www.lloyds.com/About_Us/Contact_us/)

Additionally, if DR knew where he was from, we could provide him with his state board of insurance contact info.

[Dan Harris]

RB: Why not?

Contact us (http://www.lloyds.com/About_Us/Contact_us/)

Additionally, if DR knew where he was from, we could provide him with his state board of insurance contact info.

Heck I figured everyone knew who Dennis R was. :)

[Nick Ostrowski]

RB: Why not?

Contact us (http://www.lloyds.com/About_Us/Contact_us/)

Additionally, if DR knew where he was from, we could provide him with his state board of insurance contact info.

Massachusettes (sp?)

[A.D. Miller]

Heck I figured everyone knew who Dennis R was. :)

DH: Nope, but in the event he's the one who thinks he is even more independent than I:

How to Contact the Division of Insurance (http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=ocaterminal&L=3&L0=Home&L1=Consumer&L2=Insurance&sid=Eoca&b=terminalcontent&f=doi_contactdoi&csid=Eoca)

:D

[Scott Patterson]

RB: Why not?

Contact us (http://www.lloyds.com/About_Us/Contact_us/)

Additionally, if DR knew where he was from, we could provide him with his state board of insurance contact info.

E&O insurance is not regulated in many states, it is considered to be "surplus line" insurance. I think TX is one of the few states that even make them register with the state.

With Lloyd's being a "foreign" company they are required to have an "agent" in the state that the policy is being sold in. This is why with any policy that is underwritten by Lloyd's, many times you will see a fee for the agent and a foreign tax fee.

It is not hard to beat what FREA is now charging. I'm happy with Business Risk Partners, they allowed me to increase my deductible to 5K and lower my premium to a rate that I'm very happy with or about 2/3 of what FREA was charging and with better coverage than FREA.

[David Brauner]

Hi Dennis- This is David Brauner- OREP.org. I think we have spoken before. We are in our ninth year of business and, depending on what limit level you choose, we are close to the premium cost you reference (half your current insurance). Also, I visited your site and coverage for some of the add on services you provide are included in our base coverage (over certain thresholds there is small surcharge). Check us out and feel free to call me.

[David Brauner]

I see now I'm a little late!

[Dennis Robitaille]

Okay, since this Ryan Osborne has not replied to me, I think citadel is not legit.

Now I'm trying to check out GREIA.ORG (http://www.greia.org/insurance.html)

If anyone has experience with them, I'd like to hear about it.

[Ben Garrison]

E&O insurance is not regulated in many states, it is considered to be "surplus line" insurance. I think TX is one of the few states that even make them register with the state.

With Lloyd's being a "foreign" company they are required to have an "agent" in the state that the policy is being sold in. This is why with any policy that is underwritten by Lloyd's, many times you will see a fee for the agent and a foreign tax fee.

It is not hard to beat what FREA is now charging. I'm happy with Business Risk Partners, they allowed me to increase my deductible to 5K and lower my premium to a rate that I'm very happy with or about 2/3 of what FREA was charging and with better coverage than FREA.

Scott - how is the coverage better?

[Mitchell Toelle]

Okay, since this Ryan Osborne has not replied to me, I think citadel is not legit.

Now I'm trying to check out GREIA.ORG (http://www.greia.org/insurance.html)

If anyone has experience with them, I'd like to hear about it.

Dennis,

Try getting a quote from OREP on this site as well. Just like hiring a Contractor, you need to obtain several bids...and OREP should definitely be on the list of contenders (and they're certainly endorsed by Brian). No I don't work for them...and I don't have my E&O with them...but I think I'll get a quote soon.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

hey all

check out NAPLIA INSURANCE, North American Professional Liability Insurance Agency - Errors & Omissions Insurance (http://www.naplia.com). they are backed by lexington insurance company.they are the cheapest i.ve found. they are good with new inspectors and the price goes down with more experience and no claims. they cover radon and also bond you against any claims about stealing someones underwear.

$250,000-$500,000 E&O with $1500 deductible for $2411-

one thing to think about. if you are not custom to inspecting alot of million dollor homes.why e&o for a million plus, unless your state or realtors insist on that. or you suck.

charlie

[John Remark]

John Remark First Indemnity Insurance

OK-- A couple of things-I have not heard of Citadel--went to a website for a Citadel, some parts of which were not filled in/coming soon. a little weird to see that.

The other-- Surplus Lines Carriers. Most E and O insurance for home inspectors is provided by non-admitted/Surplus lines carriers. The notable exception being FREA-- They insure through National Fire and Union and they are admitted nationally.

Surplus lines mean that we are not regulated by the states. Our policy forms are not registered with the state, our rates are not registered with the state, and the state does not provide any protection to the insured if the carrier ever goes into insolvency.

This does not mean that the states do not know who we are. All insurance carriers wishing to do business in a state have to register with the Dept if Insurance. This includes Lloyds. The only way to determine if a brokerage can sell the product is to see if they are licensed in the state you are in.

Insurance can be purchased via a number of methodologies:

a Broker/agent- this is a person/company that has appointments from carriers or wholesalers for access to certain lines of insurance.

A Wholesaler- this is a company that does not sell retail (to the end consumer) and only works with agents/brokers. They have access to many carriers take applications and send them to the carrier. In some cases they have decision making authority granted to them by the carrier for certain "lines of business".

a Managing General Agent- this is a company that has been granted permission by the carrier to "Underwrite" or evaluate applications. These companies can "Bind" or obligate the insurance carrier to write a policy. MGA's can operate on a wholesale and a retail business model.

When choosing who to go to, you need to evaluate not just the price. You need to look at what type of insurance do they primarily sell. E and O is a very specialized business. Your typical local agent/broker probably does not know a great deal about the various policies, competitors and the needs/requirements (if any) for your state. The specialists in the industry-- FREA, Allen, Orep, First Indemnity can probably advise you better and give you a better understanding of what you are buying and what you need.

Going with your local agent/broker can be very dangerous. I say this, not to knock them, but because the mistakes they make through a lack of information can cost you $$$ and in some cases your license.

I have a potential client in TX right now. I quoted him. I called him up to see what his decison was and he chose to go with someone else. OK, thems is the breaks. So I asked him who he went with. He said The Hartford. Now this is a problem. The Hartford does not write e and o for HI's. What he had done is go with a friend of his wife, who I am sure is a great lady and is knowledgeable about Life, health and standard P/C coverages. She had no idea about the state requirements for TX. Now my inspector is scrambling for insurance--has to got to the TREC, resubmit everything and cannot make a living until the mess is straightened out.

So when shopping-- shop in many places-- find out how involved the agent/brokerage is and if they actually understand HI's E and O. Do they understand HI Risk management? Is HI E and O what they do, or just a side line.

Thanks for reading-- I know a little bit of a rant, but hey. This is what Sunday's are made for :-)

Have a great day!

John Remark
First Indemnity Insurance
john@homeinspectorliability.com

[Scott Patterson]

John Remark First Indemnity Insurance

OK-- A couple of things-I have not heard of Citadel--went to a website for a Citadel, some parts of which were not filled in/coming soon. a little weird to see that.

The other-- Surplus Lines Carriers. Most E and O insurance for home inspectors is provided by non-admitted/Surplus lines carriers. The notable exception being FREA-- They insure through National Fire and Union and they are admitted nationally.

Surplus lines mean that we are not regulated by the states. Our policy forms are not registered with the state, our rates are not registered with the state, and the state does not provide any protection to the insured if the carrier ever goes into insolvency.

This does not mean that the states do not know who we are. All insurance carriers wishing to do business in a state have to register with the Dept if Insurance. This includes Lloyds. The only way to determine if a brokerage can sell the product is to see if they are licensed in the state you are in.

Insurance can be purchased via a number of methodologies:

a Broker/agent- this is a person/company that has appointments from carriers or wholesalers for access to certain lines of insurance.

A Wholesaler- this is a company that does not sell retail (to the end consumer) and only works with agents/brokers. They have access to many carriers take applications and send them to the carrier. In some cases they have decision making authority granted to them by the carrier for certain "lines of business".

a Managing General Agent- this is a company that has been granted permission by the carrier to "Underwrite" or evaluate applications. These companies can "Bind" or obligate the insurance carrier to write a policy. MGA's can operate on a wholesale and a retail business model.

When choosing who to go to, you need to evaluate not just the price. You need to look at what type of insurance do they primarily sell. E and O is a very specialized business. Your typical local agent/broker probably does not know a great deal about the various policies, competitors and the needs/requirements (if any) for your state. The specialists in the industry-- FREA, Allen, Orep, First Indemnity can probably advise you better and give you a better understanding of what you are buying and what you need.

Going with your local agent/broker can be very dangerous. I say this, not to knock them, but because the mistakes they make through a lack of information can cost you $$$ and in some cases your license.

I have a potential client in TX right now. I quoted him. I called him up to see what his decison was and he chose to go with someone else. OK, thems is the breaks. So I asked him who he went with. He said The Hartford. Now this is a problem. The Hartford does not write e and o for HI's. What he had done is go with a friend of his wife, who I am sure is a great lady and is knowledgeable about Life, health and standard P/C coverages. She had no idea about the state requirements for TX. Now my inspector is scrambling for insurance--has to got to the TREC, resubmit everything and cannot make a living until the mess is straightened out.

So when shopping-- shop in many places-- find out how involved the agent/brokerage is and if they actually understand HI's E and O. Do they understand HI Risk management? Is HI E and O what they do, or just a side line.

Thanks for reading-- I know a little bit of a rant, but hey. This is what Sunday's are made for :-)

Have a great day!

John Remark
First Indemnity Insurance
john@homeinspectorliability.com

John, FYI.... The Hartford is writing E&O for home inspectors. They showed at InspectionWorld in January of this year. I even met the one of the VP's from The Hartford who came down for the show. They are underwriting if for a company who's name I don't recall right now.

[John Remark]

OK-- From my conversations with the hartford, they are now writing GL, not e and o for home inspectors. They suspended their GL program a couple years ago and have now reintroduced it.

I have made a number of calls to the hartford and I have access to their internal systems. I cannot find an e and o policy anywhere.

I would love to see it (as I would have access to this policy and could sell it), but I do not believe that they are currently selling e and o, just gl at this time.

I could be wrong and I will dig somemore.

Thanks for the heads up.

John Remark

[Scott Patterson]

OK-- From my conversations with the hartford, they are now writing GL, not e and o for home inspectors. They suspended their GL program a couple years ago and have now reintroduced it.

I have made a number of calls to the hartford and I have access to their internal systems. I cannot find an e and o policy anywhere.

I would love to see it (as I would have access to this policy and could sell it), but I do not believe that they are currently selling e and o, just gl at this time.

I could be wrong and I will dig somemore.

Thanks for the heads up.

John Remark

Hey John, This is the company Elite InspectInsure (http://www.eiipro.com/home/) who The Hartford was with at InspectionWorld Las Vegas | January 17-20, 2010 (http://www.inspectionworld.com)

[John Remark]

Thanks--- Their website is very careful not to mention who they represent/MGA for. Not normal, but not that strange either. I will research tomorrow. Thanks, John Remark

BTW-- I did see the Hartford Logo on the bottom. Their e and o description makes no mention of them. Kinda Strange. If they rep'd for the Harford, they would probably trumpet it from the tree tops. Then again, I could be wrong. Still looking and I have been through the icon system (internal system for hartford) and can find no mention of e and o for HI. tech, yes, GL for a ton of different specialities. E/O for lawyers. ... will be back in touch later.