Concrete E Electrode

[bob smit]

My Building Department does not require a CEE to be installed at time of pours if no rebar is used, due to the 'where available' language in the NEC.

My contractors and I like the CEE for obvious reasons. However, I haven't come up with an argument/interpretation that would seem reasonable to require a Cee due to the language.

Wondering if anyone has heard of thought of a good argument.
Remember, an AHJ Does Not have the authority to make code, only enforce what is adopted in his/her jurisdiction.
Bob Smit, County EI

[Jerry Peck]

My Building Department does not require a CEE to be installed at time of pours if no rebar is used, due to the 'where available' language in the NEC.


Bob,

Do you mean they DO NOT USE ANY steel in the footings, whether inverted T footing and stem wall or slab on grade?

[Jeff Remas]

Prob seismic B and no post tension slabs either.

[bob smit]

Jerry, Exact question I had. Back when I was a builder, I always used rebar no matter what. Building official told me only when the engineering/ architect specs such, that the builder need install rebar. Unless of course an extenuating circumstance demands rebar per the building inspector.
Bob Smit, County EI

[bob smit]

Our building code is included in our Residential Code.
I will inquire what the building code is modeled after.
The Electrical portion of the Residential Code is modeled after the Nec.
Bob Smit, County EI

[ken horak]

Bob-
When is your jurisdiction looking at it's next code adoption?
Why not try and convince them to add an admendment to their code stating that Concrete Encased Electrodes are required on All new construction ?

The jurisdiction I am involved with has such an admendment.

[bob smit]

Ben, Ken,; The Residential Building Code is modeled after the UBC.
I was hoping to get into researching at work today but time didn't permit..
to many plan reviews got in the way.
Capital idea, (amendment to require CEE on all new construction) however, in Michigan there are no local codes per-say, and this is a good thing. Any contractor can do work anywhere in MI and should expect same standards/requirements etc., no shirt-pocket or city add on codes.

In light of this one uniform code throughout the State, an amendment to the State code would be required. Of course we know how easy that endeavor would be. We have an amendment code for electrical, 'Code Part 8'. This idea we're considering here would be an amendment to the building portion of the residential code, not an easy task for a building department to persuade the State. This of course would be to assume I could convince the Department to take up this task. If the change/amendment would be to the electrical portion of the residential code, I'd have a fighting chance.

Bob Smit, County EI

[Jerry Peck]

Bob,

So, the answer is that you do, or do not, require steel rebar in your footings?

[bob smit]

Already answered that question Jerry......only if spec'd in plans.
Did a rough insp on two new homes lately, side by side, same builder.
Left a note, "where is the connection for the CEE".
This message and a few others have already created a S-storm.
The E-contractor is stroken out and the Builder with him. Our Building Inspector told me they only used some rebar in the corners that didn't equal the 20' required for a CEE connection.

Everyone is up in arms and I'm the bad guy; so be it. This is the only kink in the armour of concrete and I'm getting in.
Still open for suggestions/comments.
Bob Smit, County EI

[Jerry Peck]

Already answered that question Jerry......only if spec'd in plans.

That's not what I asked.

You said:


Ben, Ken,; The Residential Building Code is modeled after the UBC.

And I am asking you to *make sure* that steel is *not required* in the code as I know of no code which does not require the use of steel in the footings, which means the concrete encased electrode would be present if built to code.

What I am *not* asking is 'how it is done', but 'what is required by the code in your area'.

[ken horak]

Bob-
I'm curious why Michigan would not require rebar in footers, when their codes are based on the IRC and the IBC ?

[bob smit]

Doesn't make sense to me either Ken. I'm off till Friday and will research.
Bob Smit, County EI