Wye Connection

[Mike Schulz]

Is the connection from the washer trap to the wye coupler ok? The connection is fitting to fitting with no straight pipe viewable. I asked a plumber and he said it should have 2 pipe widths between them? That did not settle right with me either. What do you think.

[brian schmitt]

mike ,
real wrong! the trap is required to be 6" to18" ABOVE the floor. remove and install per code!

[Scott Patterson]

mike ,
real wrong! the trap is required to be 6" to18" ABOVE the floor. remove and install per code!

I have never heard of this, can you cite the code please?

[Scott Patterson]

Is the connection from the washer trap to the wye coupler ok? The connection is fitting to fitting with no straight pipe viewable. I asked a plumber and he said it should have 2 pipe widths between them? That did not settle right with me either. What do you think.

I don't know the answer for this, but I would have to wonder what is holding those two sections together! I hope it is more than the glue....

[Rick Cantrell]

I can't tell for sure, but that looks to be a 2" trap and a 1.5" Tee.
If it is, that's wrong.

[brian schmitt]

I have never heard of this, can you cite the code please?
scott
are you kidding? 804 uniform plumbing code. maybe the requirement is not in the i.p.c.?

[Wayne Carlisle]

Doesn't look like a problem to me!

[Scott Patterson]

scott
are you kidding? 804 uniform plumbing code. maybe the requirement is not in the i.p.c.?

No, not kidding. I have never heard of it, that was why I was asking. I see traps all of the time from the crawlspace or in a basement.

[Wayne Carlisle]

No, not kidding. I have never heard of it, that was why I was asking. I see traps all of the time from the crawlspace or in a basement.

Section 804 of the UPC deals with indirect waste receptors. Like for a washing machine box with the p-trap below. Which the OP says that is what this is!

[Mike Schulz]

Thanks guys. It is the washer trap. The picture is skewed from shrinking it down to post. It is 2" connector wye. I believe stub piece of straight pipe was installed but the ( can't think of correct term) couplers are butted together. Is that connection ok?

I need to check on the trap for indirect waste but seen it installed this way many times. This house is one year old.

[Wayne Carlisle]

From the IRC....nothing about specific trap location that I can find...yet but

P3201.6 Number of fixtures per trap. Each plumbing fixture
shall be separately trapped by a water seal trap. The vertical
distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed
24 inches (610 mm) and the horizontal distance shall not
exceed 30 inches (762 mm) measured from the center line of
the fixture outlet to the centerline of the inlet of the trap. The
height of a clotheswasher standpipe above a trap shall conform
to Section P2706.2. Fixtures shall not be double trapped.



P2706.2 Standpipes. Standpipes shall extend a minimum of
18 inches (457 mm) and a maximum of 42 inches (1067 mm)
above the trap weir. Access shall be provided to all standpipe
traps and drains for rodding.


The connection you question is OK.

[brian schmitt]

From the IRC....nothing about specific trap location that I can find...yet but



P3201.6 Number of fixtures per trap.

Each plumbing fixture

shall be separately trapped by a water seal trap. The vertical
distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed
24 inches (610 mm) and the horizontal distance shall not
exceed 30 inches (762 mm) measured from the center line of
the fixture outlet to the centerline of the inlet of the trap. The
height of a clotheswasher standpipe above a trap shall conform
to Section P2706.2. Fixtures shall not be double trapped.



P2706.2 Standpipes.


Standpipes shall extend a minimum of

18 inches (457 mm) and a maximum of 42 inches (1067 mm)
above the trap weir. Access shall be provided to all standpipe
traps and drains for rodding.



The connection you question is OK.


wayne,
o.k. i can work with that. let's say you install the washer drain 18 - 42" above the weir of the trap as shown in the op. how far above the floor would that pipe be? look at most installation instructions for the washers and they will specify a certain minimum and maximum height for the drain pipe. siphoning of the washer will occur if the pipe is too low in many cases. if it is too high i'm not sure exactly what will happen but 42" above the weir is maximum and therefore this install of the trap way below the floor is wrong! i rest my case:D
scott,
i see traps below the floor too! tubs,showers and jacuzzi's:p

[Scott Patterson]

wayne,
o.k. i can work with that. let's say you install the washer drain 18 - 42" above the weir of the trap as shown in the op. how far above the floor would that pipe be? look at most installation instructions for the washers and they will specify a certain minimum and maximum height for the drain pipe. siphoning of the washer will occur if the pipe is too low in many cases. if it is too high i'm not sure exactly what will happen but 42" above the weir is maximum and therefore this install of the trap way below the floor is wrong! i rest my case:D
scott,
i see traps below the floor too! tubs,showers and jacuzzi's:p
[/LEFT]

OK, I can go with that as well.... But.... what if the washer drain is 18-20" high inside the home? Then this setup would be OK, would it not? We really can not tell the the height of anything. Based on the picture, we can assume that the floor joist is 12" and that the trap is a few inches below the joist.

[Mike Schulz]

Short spans 8" joist

[David Bell]

If there is a washer box connection in the wall I prefer to see the trap below the floor rather than inside the wall. I would also like to see some type of cleanout at the change of direction.

[Mike Schulz]

The clients 1 year warranty. They only wanted exterior,crawl,attic inspected. Only briefly seen the interior to get to the attic. But a box is typical.

[John Kogel]

The clients 1 year warranty. They only wanted exterior,crawl,attic inspected. Only briefly seen the interior to get to the attic. But a box is typical.If it's a typical drain box in the wall. that would be about 36" above the floor.
If there's a short stub between the fittings, it's just a question of whether the length of the horizontal is sufficient to prevent siphoning of the trap, right?

Both are too tough to call from one distorted pic. I'll pass. :)

Would you say an incomplete inspection doesn't give you enough info to do a proper job?
I'd fire that back to your clients, unable to determine due to inspection constraints.

[Joshua Hardesty]

That's crown vented because the minimum distance from weir to vent needs to be twice the diameter of the pipe, 4" in this case. Definately doesn't have that if the hubs are butted up against eachother.

When doing laundry installations I tried to keep the trap above the floor but depending on the situation it wasn't always possible. Trap + 4" + Tee often meant there isn't enough room in a typical stud bay to get it to work. New construction isn't always a problem, no big deal to move a stud over. But older jobs, additions etc., where it's not that easy... well, we put it underneath. As long as the maximum height of the standpipe isn't passed, it works.

[Aaron Hayward]

Just a thought.

In colder climates wouldn't the water contained in the trap freeze to cause problems. Right or wrong i would think the trap should defiently not be below the insulation.

Aaron

[Mike Schulz]

Joshua can you show me where I can find it in print about the distance between the two. It sure would help ...........Thanks

Aaron around our area they don't require supply or drain waste to be insulated in the crawl space. Maybe Joshua can shed some light on why they require pipes to be insulated in the garage and attic but not the crawl space since it appears he may be a plumber in our area.

[Mark Haft]

Is the connection from the washer trap to the wye coupler ok? The connection is fitting to fitting with no straight pipe viewable. I asked a plumber and he said it should have 2 pipe widths between them? That did not settle right with me either. What do you think.

Technically it's a "Sanitary Tee" not a "Wye." The attached picture is a slightly different layout, but it explains the trap to vent distance (min 2 pipe diameters) - and where to measure from.

FYI - The max distance listed is using UPC.

[Joshua Hardesty]

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/plumbing-system-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/8099-traps.html

Check that thread out. There's more info and a code reference in there.

[Ted Glover]

I don't think the two pieces are butted together, unless they are leaking. There is probably a piece inside just long enough to glue them together. And home inspection is not code inspection. Looks like it would work fine for a washer drain.

[Wayne Carlisle]

In my opinion the drawing posted gives the wrong information for measuring the 2X the diameter. In my opinion it should be measured as I have noted in red in the picture. This is where the actual weir line is.

[Carlos Macias]

Wayne,

as far as i been tought the weir of the trap is the highest drain point of the fitting.

[Wayne Carlisle]

Me too.........I don't know why I drew the line there.........I was thinking that others were measuring from where the end of the fitting was instead of the weir of the trap..........the original picture is correct........duh!

Here is where I have seen others measure from....the end of the fitting and not the actual weir.

[Mark Haft]

...Here is where I have seen others measure from....the end of the fitting and not the actual weir.

In New Jersey and going by 2006 National Standard Plumbing Code;
12.8.3 Crown Venting Limitation
A vent shall not be installed within two pipe diameters of the trap weir.

The way I see it... the pipe goes in to the fitting's hub all the way to the weir, and this is where I would take the measurement, and this is how I interpret NJ's plumbing code. However I'm not sure whether NC follows the same code.

[ed ferraioli]

Do not know the reason for the drain to be 6 to 18 inch of the floor. the 18 inch to the trap is so no water will splash out of the pipe from water pressure during rinse cycle

[David Bell]

The arm of the tee-wye is of sufficient length in regard to the vent stack.

[brian schmitt]

Do not know the reason for the drain to be 6 to 18 inch of the floor. the 18 inch to the trap is so no water will splash out of the pipe from water pressure during rinse cycle
ed,
splash factor is a possibility, but siphoning of the washer during the washing cycle is a reality! think about it:D

[Joshua Hardesty]

The way I see it... the pipe goes in to the fitting's hub all the way to the weir, and this is where I would take the measurement, and this is how I interpret NJ's plumbing code. However I'm not sure whether NC follows the same code.


That's basically what I would do -- if I ran it in 2", I'd cut a piece of pipe 4" long. I might be able to shave a LITTLE off that, since the weir and the vent is probably 1/8th to 1/4th of an inch past the end of the hub, but that seems silly.

Ted: I didn't mean that there wasn't a pipe inside the hubs, just that it was so short that the hubs of the trap and tee were touching. A 2" hub is about 3/4ths to 7/8ths of an inch deep, so the total length of that pipe would have to be 1.5-1.75" long, definately shorter than the 2x diameter code.


And indeed it's not a code inspection, but should you still call out such things? Like (and this is a VERY extreme example) if you saw a trailer that was anchored by throwing 1/8" twine over the roof in a couple of places held by tent stakes driven into the ground -- Clearly that's not a code approved way to anchor it, but it "should work."

[Joshua Hardesty]

ed,
splash factor is a possibility, but siphoning of the washer during the washing cycle is a reality! think about it:D

That's something that's confused me about the washer drain line -- how is it ever going to self-siphon? It's not a single, large charge of water like a toilet flushing or a tub drain being opened. It's a stream of water that slowly reduces in pressure and volume as the water in the washer tub empties out.

[Joshua Hardesty]

Joshua can you show me where I can find it in print about the distance between the two. It sure would help ...........Thanks

Aaron around our area they don't require supply or drain waste to be insulated in the crawl space. Maybe Joshua can shed some light on why they require pipes to be insulated in the garage and attic but not the crawl space since it appears he may be a plumber in our area.

I'm not entirely sure of their reasoning -- I do know that temperatures in the crawlspace are always much more "mild" than they are outside the house. That is to say, it's cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than outside air. The attic seems more open to airflow with the soffit and ridge vents, and in the case of the garage I guess you could very easily leave the door wide open and freeze a pipe. Perhaps the heat from the ground, less airflow through the crawl space, and thicker walls of the foundation keep the pipes from freezing. If you ask Jerry Peck though, I think the code states that those pipes SHOULD be protected from freezing, it's just never inforced.

[Jerry Peck]

the original picture is correct........duh!


Yep. :)