CSST in cabinetry

[Matthew Barnicle]

Is this allowed? CSST under the kitchen cooktop in the cabinet. It passes through the cabinet base and then connects to the appliance connector. There is no support for the shutoff. How should this be setup?

Also: Is CSST allowed to pass through sheet metal where it enters the fireplace? Seems it should be hard piped similar to a furnace.

[A.D. Miller]

Is this allowed? CSST under the kitchen cooktop in the cabinet. It passes through the cabinet base and then connects to the appliance connector. There is no support for the shutoff. How should this be setup?

Also: Is CSST allowed to pass through sheet metal where it enters the fireplace? Seems it should be hard piped similar to a furnace.

MB: There are several things wrong with this installation:

(1) The sharp bends in the CSST are not allowed.
(2) The shut-off valve must be supported.

CSST can pass through the sidewall of a metal firebox, but must have a protective plate installed.

http://www.gastite.com/include/languages/english/downloads/pdfs/Nov2008_DI_Guide.pdf

[David Argabright]

I agree with Mr. Miller on all counts. That being said I often see it installed through the prefab walls without protection in this area. I guess the AHJs allow it.

[Sean Wiens]

IN BC, Canada, the CSST is not approved to enter the casing of any gas appliance. It must be converted to 'hard' pipe prior to passing through the outer shell of the appliance.

[Bob Harper]

Improper installation. Should have used a terminal flange w/ shutoff to flex connector. If passing through a cabinet or wall with it could be damaged, at least the first 6" would need to be encased in a flexible steel conduit or similar strike/ impact protection.

when passing through appliance cabinet walls, it must meet the requirements of the appliance, CSST, major and local codes. In most (but not all) cases, the AHJ will allow the CSST to pass through the wall of a Fp if it is protected by a grommet and electrically insulated from the Fp. I typically use rubbe fuel hose sliced to form the grommet and the AHJs love it.
You also would need to pack or seal the penetration with some sort of insulation or high temp. caulk.

HTH,

[A.D. Miller]

Improper installation.

BH: Yes, I believe that was already pointed out.


Should have used a terminal flange w/ shutoff to flex connector.

BH: That too.



If passing through a cabinet or wall with it could be damaged, at least the first 6" would need to be encased in a flexible steel conduit or similar strike/ impact protection.


BH: I do not believe that "need" is reflected in the manufacturer's literature.


when passing through appliance cabinet walls, it must meet the requirements of the appliance, CSST, major and local codes.

BH: While this may be true, manufacturers' instructions trump all else save perhaps CPSC.



In most (but not all) cases, the AHJ will allow the CSST to pass through the wall of a Fp if it is protected by a grommet and electrically insulated from the Fp. I typically use rubbe fuel hose sliced to form the grommet and the AHJs love it.


BH: That installation will not procure a green tag in the 16-county, 10,000 square mile area I service.



You also would need to pack or seal the penetration with some sort of insulation or high temp. caulk.


BH: I get to write this one up on 80% of the installations.:D

[Stuart Brooks]

I agree with Mr. Miller on all counts. That being said I often see it installed through the prefab walls without protection in this area. I guess the AHJs allow it.
They allow it because it isn't in the CODE. It's apparently not within their jurisdiction to enforce manufacturer installation requirements.

Doesn't the IRC include a statement like, "In accordance with manufacturer installation requirements" when a specific issue is not covered in the IRC?

[A.D. Miller]

They allow it because it isn't in the CODE. It's apparently not within their jurisdiction to enforce manufacturer installation requirements.

Doesn't the IRC include a statement like, "In accordance with manufacturer installation requirements" when a specific issue is not covered in the IRC?

R102.4 Referenced codes and standards. The codes and
standards referenced in this code shall be considered part of the
requirements of this code to the prescribed extent of each such
reference. Where differences occur between provisions of this
code and referenced codes and standards, the provisions of this
code shall apply.
Exception: Where enforcement of a code provision would
violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or
appliance, the conditions of the listing and manufacturer’s
instructions shall apply.

[Stuart Brooks]

R102.4 Referenced codes and standards.. snipped....

Thank you sir!

[A.D. Miller]

Thank you sir!

SB: Add this from the NFGC - NFPA 54,

Reference: Table A.5.6
TIA 09-2

[mathew stouffer]

Bob, I would love to see and example pic of your installation if you have one.

[Kenneth Bauer]

Did you find that there was a permit for this work and inpections were performed?

[Matthew Barnicle]

Although my inspections don't typically include verifying that permits were pulled and signed off on, the house was built in 2006 and CSST was installed throughout. So, the likelyhood of it going through the permit/inspection process is high. I would say 99%

[A.D. Miller]

From the 2006 IRC Commentary:


CSST is allowed by the manufacturers’ installation
instructions to connect directly to fixed-in-place, nonportable,
nonmoveable appliances such as furnaces,
boilers, gas fireplaces and water heaters. CSST is not
intended for direct connection to moveable appliances
such as clothes dryers or ranges nor is it intended to
connect to appliances suspended on chains or rods
such as radiant heaters and unit heaters. Also, connecting
directly to log lighters installed in solid-fuelburning
fireplaces is not allowed. Direct connection is
allowed for gas fireplace appliances in accordance
with the CSST and fireplace manufacturers’ instructions.

[Matthew Barnicle]

"CSST is allowed by the manufacturers’ installation
instructions to connect directly to fixed-in-place, nonportable,
nonmoveable appliances such as furnaces,
boilers, gas fireplaces and water heaters."

Ok, please clarify. The manufacturers of CSST allow it, but the furnace manufacturers do not allow it to pass through the sheet metal cabinet, correct? Must be rigid pipe? I mean, furnaces do move...they vibrate. And stainless is a soft metal and prone to damage from the harder and sharp steel of a furnace cabinet.

[A.D. Miller]

"CSST is allowed by the manufacturers’ installation
instructions to connect directly to fixed-in-place, nonportable,
nonmoveable appliances such as furnaces,
boilers, gas fireplaces and water heaters."

Ok, please clarify. The manufacturers of CSST allow it, but the furnace manufacturers do not allow it to pass through the sheet metal cabinet, correct? Must be rigid pipe? I mean, furnaces do move...they vibrate. And stainless is a soft metal and prone to damage from the harder and sharp steel of a furnace cabinet.

MB: Read the literature posted and think. It is not my job to think for you.:D

[Mike Schulz]

Pic 2 is allowed here but with a grommet of some sorts. Some times they have them foil taped so you can't see what the hole is protected by, also see that green mineral stuffed.

[A.D. Miller]

From Gastite Installation Manual


APPLICATION


• All Stubs create a fixed point “stub-out” on a wall or floor surface for meter and appliance attachment.
• Angle Stub-Out mounting plate provided at a 72-1/2° angle to facilitate mounting to angled side of
most fireplace inserts.

[A.D. Miller]

And then, there is this from the same manual:

The Gastite® Angle Stub is designed to create a secure mounting point or stub-out for the transition from CSST to log-lighters, gas logs, or firebox insert’s controls. Refer to Section 4.2 for Angle Stub Installation.

The Gastite® Angle Stub shall not be connected in such a way that the log-lighter, gas log, or other components angle out of the fireplace. To correct for the insertion angle into the firebox, metal shims such as fender washers can be used. (See the proper and improper installation Fig. 4-69)