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Bruce Breedlove
04-02-2010, 12:56 PM
The Consumer Product Safety Commission is recommending that homes with Chinese deywall should be gutted:

Feds: Homes with Chinese drywall must be gutted (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gD4avarflIqeq856bkEM8jMJRR_wD9ER44UG0)



NEW ORLEANS — Thousands of U.S. homes tainted by Chinese drywall should be completely gutted, according to new guidelines released Friday by the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

The guidelines say electrical wiring, outlets, circuit breakers, fire alarm systems, carbon monoxide alarms, fire sprinklers, gas pipes and drywall need to be removed.

"We want families to tear it all out and rebuild the interior of their homes, and they need to start this to get their lives started all over again," said Inez Tenenbaum, chairwoman of the commission, the federal agency charged with making sure consumer products are safe.

About 3,000 homeowners, mostly in Florida, Virginia, Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana, have reported problems with the Chinese-made drywall, which was imported in large quantities during the housing boom and after a string of Gulf Coast hurricanes.

The drywall has been linked to corrosion of wiring, air conditioning units, computers, doorknobs and jewelry, along with possible health effects. Tenenbaum said some samples of the Chinese-made product emit 100 times as much hydrogen sulfide as drywall made elsewhere.

. . .

U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., said now the question is who pays to gut the homes.

"The way I see it, homeowners didn't cause this. The manufacturers in China did," Nelson said. "That's why we've got to go after the Chinese government now."

Southern members of Congress have sought to make it easier to sue Chinese manufacturers and to get the Federal Emergency Management Agency to help homeowners pay for costs not covered by insurance. They also say the U.S. needs to pressure the Chinese government, which allegedly ran some of the companies that made defective drywall.

. . .

But Randy Noel, past president of the Louisiana Home Builders Association, said the Chinese drywall problem has been exaggerated. He called the new guidelines "overkill."

"Nobody has come up with a house yet that has caught on fire from the Chinese drywall, no one has come up yet with a house that leaks water or gas because of Chinese drywall," he said.

He has examined numerous homes containing Chinese drywall and found minor problems, he said.

"It's a black soot on top of the copper, brass and silver," he said. "You wipe the stuff off and it looks as good as new."

Jim Luttrall
04-02-2010, 01:06 PM
Good article Bruce,
Did everyone get the Louisiana builder?
But Randy Noel, past president of the Louisiana Home Builders Association, said the Chinese drywall problem has been exaggerated. He called the new guidelines "overkill."
"Nobody has come up with a house yet that has caught on fire from the Chinese drywall, no one has come up yet with a house that leaks water or gas because of Chinese drywall," he said.
He has examined numerous homes containing Chinese drywall and found minor problems, he said.
"It's a black soot on top of the copper, brass and silver," he said. "You wipe the stuff off and it looks as good as new."

I wonder where they dug up this guy?

Scott Patterson
04-02-2010, 01:14 PM
Like it is a big surprise that the home should be gutted if it has problematic drywall. I think we all were already thinking this and it is good to see the CPSC saying so.

Caoimhín P. Connell
04-03-2010, 06:34 AM
I can understand the recommendation on a regional scale, but not a national scale. For example, here in Colorado, the ambient moisture levels in homes are such that even houses with Chinese drywall are no more likely to experience problems than any other house.

So, while the CPSC has some foundation, we also have to remember that the CPSC is the same organization that banned ATVs for youths because there was lead in the handlebars! The Consumer Product Safety Improvements Act has done much to undermine the credibility and sanity of the CPSC. The CPSC concluded in an official statement that ATVs were dangerous for youths to ride because it would expose them to lead! Now – I’ve eaten my share of handlebars in my day, but I seriously think lead was the least of my concerns during such occasions.


Cheers!
Caoimh*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Applications Consulting Technologies, Inc. - Home (http://www.forensic-applications.com)

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Caoimhín P. Connell
04-11-2010, 07:07 AM
Hi Marc!

I’m not aware of a CO issue vis-*-vis Chinese drywall in the absense of humidity. I am aware of a connection between high relative humidity and the off-gassing of the drywall. I wasn’t able to find any info on off-gassing in the presence of just CO but in the absence of high humidity. Do you have something?

Cheers!
Caoimh*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Applications Consulting Technologies, Inc. - Home (http://www.forensic-applications.com)

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Jim Luttrall
04-11-2010, 09:48 AM
For example, here in Colorado, the ambient moisture levels in homes are such that even houses with Chinese drywall are no more likely to experience problems than any other house.

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Hello Caoimhin, your disclaimer not withstanding:D do you have anything research related to back up your statement indicating a correlation between ambient moisture and Chinese drywall?
I have had a hunch that was true but have not heard of anyone stating that there was such a relationship. Seems reasonable to conclude that the corrosion would be higher in humid (coastal) areas but since there are many causation factors in play not the least of which is the higher prevalence of imported drywall to be distributed near coastal ports, I have kept that opinion pretty much to myself. Do you have any insight you could share here in laymen' terms?

H.G. Watson, Sr.
04-11-2010, 10:55 AM
The hydrogen atoms - water being source, for the noxious hydrogen sulfide.

Humid climatic region not necessary! Trapped/sealed pockets in walls with liquid water - well sealed exteriors and moisture ladden activities inside not well ventillated or pockets of trapped moisture and low air exchange - and leaks from exterior or interior - add paint film to the living side (perm barrier) and you have the conditions for deterioration and the reaction.

Same breakdown/hydrogen sulfide occurs with "regular" drywall burried (no air) in wet landfills, and cavities which are anerobic (lack of oxygen/air exhange), moisture, and sulfur reducing bacteria (talked about that last year - on this thread: http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/building-interior-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/12786-help-chinese-drywall-inspections.html#post79601 before the CPSC and States started investigating the latest deep-pocket chasing (consumer alarming) band wagon.

Then there is the question as to if the symptoms are caused by suspect drywall or formaldehyde in better sealed (as opposed to formerly quite drafty construction methods and lower energy costs). Both cause darkening of copper, health issues, etc.

I'm still not entirely "sold" on the latest "mould is gold" or CPSC "aluminum wiring"/"radon vs. stone countertops/flooring" knee-jerk reactionary "condemnation".

By the way, I've spent some time in Colorado, various areas. It is not all airid all the time.

Caoimhín P. Connell
04-12-2010, 05:38 AM
Good morning, Jim!

Yeah, I do have something on it somewhere. I’m teaching all day today, and I’m in the field for the next three days. I won’t be able to look for the source until Thursday. But I will find that and get it to you. (Remind me if I forget).

Mr. Watson –

I think you misunderstood my post – geographical region was not my point. Rather the necessity of humidity is my point, and your post supports that point. To my knowledge, there is no connection with CO per se, rather there is a primary connection with humidity and off-gassing.

Cheers all!

Caoimh*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Applications Consulting Technologies, Inc. - Home (http://www.forensic-applications.com)

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

H.G. Watson, Sr.
04-22-2010, 07:13 AM
Good morning, Jim!

Yeah, I do have something on it somewhere. I’m teaching all day today, and I’m in the field for the next three days. I won’t be able to look for the source until Thursday. But I will find that and get it to you. (Remind me if I forget).

Mr. Watson –

I think you misunderstood my post –geographical region was not my point. Rather the necessity of humidity is my point, and your post supports that point. To my knowledge, there is no connection with CO per se, rather there is a primary connection with humidity and off-gassing.

Cheers all!

Caoimh*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Applications Consulting Technologies, Inc. - Home (http://www.forensic-applications.com)

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG


I can understand the recommendation on a regional scale, but not a national scale. For example, here in Colorado, the ambient moisture levels in homes are such that even houses with Chinese drywall are no more likely to experience problems than any other house.

So, while the CPSC has some foundation, we also have to remember that the CPSC is the same organization that banned ATVs for youths because there was lead in the handlebars! The Consumer Product Safety Improvements Act has done much to undermine the credibility and sanity of the CPSC. The CPSC concluded in an official statement that ATVs were dangerous for youths to ride because it would expose them to lead! Now – I’ve eaten my share of handlebars in my day, but I seriously think lead was the least of my concerns during such occasions.


Cheers!
Caoimh*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Applications Consulting Technologies, Inc. - Home (http://www.forensic-applications.com)

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Mr. Connell,

I didn't misunderstand.

My point was IF the recommendations are indeed valid - causal relationship of the presence of Chinese Drywall - metals failure (fasteners, pipes, wiring, etc.) then the would be valid for ALL regions, not exempting Colorado homes for any reason, geographical or climatic region not excepted or exempted. Building methods, moisture from ground infiltrating, living activites, etc. climatic region not withstanding.

I stated I am not yet "sold" as the "problem" being unique and exclusive to "chinese drywall" perhaps just more pronounced due to the unclean/non-climate controlled transport methods and extended periods of time so exposed {unclean containers in unclean, fuel oil, rodent urine & excrement-contaminated (etc.) cargo containers/holds, sea air/humidity, extended port of entry storage, etc.}, production date to date of delivery at installation site. I am also not yet sold that the problem is simply and uniquely due only the "chinese" origin mined material, but a constellation of factors that may be duplicated with other origin materials, perhaps with a missing (as of yet not identified) accelleration factor (such as a chemical compound treatment, etc. case in point - the problem with plant based food and feed products enhancing the "apparent" available amino acids/protein nutritional value by adding melmine (kidney & liver toxic) as found in many Chinese origin "products" that have formerly found there way into the food chain - both there and here (baby formula, food products produced in the US, and animal feeds) and exported/dumped elsewhere (Africa, disaster regions, etc.).

Finally, revisited and bumped as a Reminder for the material/information you promised from last week.