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Greg Jenkins
05-05-2010, 01:29 PM
Does anyone know how far an above ground pool should be from the house foundation and the below grade basement walls.
I am concerned about the load and the affect it could have on the basement foundation walls.
I don't see many pools and I can't find any info. on the subject.

John Dirks Jr
05-05-2010, 02:46 PM
The local code jurisdiction will usually address the distance from house requirement. Have you checked with your local AHJ?

Rick Hurst
05-05-2010, 04:47 PM
Having a best friend in the above pool business that carries a pool brand called Doughboy, I asked him and he said the only thing the manufacture recommends is the pool wall to be (6)ft. from the property line and (10ft.) from a street.
http://www.doughboy-pools.com/ServiceSupport/Images/documentsearch/AG02DOUGHBOYRND.pdf

As far as being constructed next to the house, there is nothing in the manufacture that states minimums. That pool wall is designed to hold and support that water *if* installed per the manufactures installation directions.

I've seen a number of these installed over the years and I have not seen too many AHJ even require a permit or inspection because they are not considered a permanent pool.

rick

Greg Jenkins
05-05-2010, 07:19 PM
I have not checked with the local ahj. I am not concerned about the pool structure. I am concerned about the load that the filled pool is placing on the below grade, rear foundation block wall. The weight of the water in the pool could exceed 50,000 lbs. (a wild guess). Some of that weight is located close to the rear foundation. See my point?

Raymond Wand
05-06-2010, 03:30 AM
Is the foundation poured concrete or block? Me thinks it may make a difference, but then again I would want to know how long the pool has been in this position, and if there are any signs of distress on this foundation wall.

H.G. Watson, Sr.
05-06-2010, 07:22 AM
Its proximity to electrical (AC and Service Lateral (or overhead) feeders, other services, and other - too close as pictured) is addressed in the Electrical Code (sections on pools, spas, fountains, etc.).

Proximity/obstruction for means of egress also addressed in Fire Code or Life Safety Code. Set-back to property lines usually addressed in Zoning - permitted uses. Set-backs to structures, others (pools, sheds, garages) also addressed in codes.

Body of water + electricity. This is the first issue of problem code-wise.

Your weight concern is negligable - A man standing on the dirt will exert more PSI or PSF on the soil than the water in that pool:

A U.S. liquid gallon of water is 3.785 liters weighs roughly 8.34 pounds. 42 inch depth would be for a sq. inch of area 42 cubic inches of water, which equals 0.181818 U.S. gallons or 0.181818 x 8.34 = 1.51656 pounds per square inch. A square foot of above ground pool footprint area that would be 42x12x12 cu. in. of water or 6048 cu. in. of water per sq. ft. of pool area, or 26.1818 U.S. gal. 26.1818 x 8.34 = 218.3562 pounds per square foot.

Another way to look at density and weight of water is to use approx 7.48 gallons per cubic foot of water.Area of a circle in square feet. Pi x radius squared (radius is half the diameter). So take a 16' perfect circle pool - radius = 8 feet. 8 squared is 64, 64 times Pi (we'll use rough 3.14) is about 201 square feet, lets multiply that by the height of the water (in this example 42 inches, or 3.5 feet) that would give us 201 x 3.5 = 703.5 cu. ft. of water. A cu. ft. of water is roughly 7.48 gallons. 703.5 cu. ft. x 7.48 = 5262.18 U.S. gallons x 8.34 pounds/gallon = roughly 43,887 lbs., but so what? That's still for an above ground pool, 42" water height, just 1.517 pounds per square inch, and 218.4 pounds per square foot with 3-1/2 feet of water.

I don't see a problem with the weight just the proximity as to electrical (and outlets), any controlls/pumps for the pool - unknown, emergency egress/exit path, encroachments to the required distance from the structure & its overhang (too close to house), Protecting the kids in the neighborhood from its dangerous/hazardous 'nuisance attraction' with a secure locked high-enough, and not easily climable, safety fence/gate as it is an "attractive nuisance" to other kids in the neighborhood, and potential flooding damage to the home should the pool fail.

It is too close to the egress windows, the overhang of the house, and the AC (equipotential grid for 36 in. near a/c disconnect; all directions beyond required path within 'zone' of pool) and electric disconnect & required outside receptacles. GFCI for all recps in 'zone' required ground bond.
Provisions to prevent syphoning/backflow (vac breaker, etc.) to the hose bib in place (contaminate water supply). The AC is under the low overhang from the roof, etc. Exterior lighting, receptacles, and AC electrical too close to pool. What provisions have been made to protect adjoining properties from inadvertant pool drainage/failure (lined swale, etc.) drainage or diversion from the rear lot pitch (pool location proximity to rise in slope leads me to believe this may not exist or has been compromised by placement of pool). The required slope away from the foundation likely has also been compromised to flatten the area for a level pool on the soil/rocks/pad (6-10 feet out) These are the more important issues.

Weight impact of the water in the above-ground pool itself upon the soil and thereby the nearby foundation is negligable. However, if you are in an area with soil that should be regularly and evenly wetted to avoid foundation damage - it (the pool covering the soil) would negatively impact. Near total yard coverage ratios (for absorbing versus redirecting rainfall, etc.) may also be of issue (zoning/codes, density, storm water, etc.). What I do see is an indication of a sloped lot pitched towards the pool, home, foundation & AC (first picture right foreground follow fence line to right goes uphill), which leads me to think hydrostatic pressure to soil and surface water runnoff & accumulation against foundation is likely, long shot from home behind you towards that area of higher elevation beyond the pool might further confirm that concern of a snow-melt, rain, or pool wall/liner failure to flooding the AC area and low foundation.

See also Article 680 NEC Parts I and III, see esp. Definitions in Part I for 'Pool' and 'Storable Swimming, Wading, or Immersion Pool' 10' zone outwards (horizontal) from walls upwards for overhead, 5' zone outwards from walls for underground, 6' zone for receptacles. Bonding and Grounding Requirements (GFCI receptacles must have ground in 'the zone'. Under eave protected receptacles, etc. that may have been formerly 'damp location' may have become 'wet location' in 'the zone' of the side walls of the errected semi-permanent or storable pool.

Greg Jenkins
05-06-2010, 10:58 AM
Wow - More info. than I bargained for. Lots of good stuff to contemplate.
Thanks for you insight.
Greg

Randy Mayo
09-07-2010, 05:54 PM
Greg

Without doing the engineering calculations you would be OK if the pool is as far away as the foundation is deep. For example if the foundation footing is 6-foot deep keep the edge of the pool 6-feet away.

Jess Moznot
12-06-2010, 11:33 AM
Having a best friend in the above pool business that carries a pool brand called Doughboy, I asked him and he said the only thing the manufacture recommends is the pool wall to be (6)ft. from the property line and (10ft.) from a street.
rick

I think this would be correct so far as the foundation is not more than 6 ft. deep. Also, keep in mind where you are going to run your spa filters (http://www.familyleisure.com/Pool-Spa-Filter-Cartridges/) as this will also greatly effect the placement of your pool. Cheers!

Marc M
12-30-2010, 07:20 PM
The local code jurisdiction will usually address the distance from house requirement. Have you checked with your local AHJ?

JD's correct...

Phil Brody
12-31-2010, 12:51 PM
As an engineer, what you perceive might be existing and what is are two different things. The lateral loading on the foundation will be virtually nonexsistent since the load will be rapidly dispersed throughout the surrounding soil. Remember the load will go straight down, so any load on the foundation would have to come from soil compression.

Door Guy
01-01-2011, 10:28 AM
As an engineer, what you perceive might be existing and what is are two different things. The lateral loading on the foundation will be virtually nonexsistent since the load will be rapidly dispersed throughout the surrounding soil. Remember the load will go straight down, so any load on the foundation would have to come from soil compression.

Totally agree... and it's not likely the soil will be compressed unless it was fill.

H.G. Watson, Sr.
01-01-2011, 11:36 AM
old threads being revived!

Which was already pointed out isn't much more than an average guy walking around on the soil.

However both LI and Mich overlook the discussion elements regarding the topography of the region, ledge, expansive soils and the presence of the large area soil covering's possible effect on same, and/or drainage, in regions prone to such issues.

I really think the subject was already pretty fully explored and exhausted long ago, specific to the OP's questions and photos.

Phil Brody
01-01-2011, 06:01 PM
True this was an old thread and I'm not sure how it came to light, but it really didn't seem the question was fully answered. The one thing I don't understand about these boards is a poster will ask a question which may or may not be answered but many will chime in to many tangential or colateral issues as if to show how thorough they can be. I totally apreciate their throughness but think it would be more constructive to limit the response to the question at hand unless the poster queries "any additional items that might be in question".

H.G. Watson, Sr.
01-02-2011, 08:02 AM
True this was an old thread and I'm not sure how it came to light, but it really didn't seem the question was fully answered. The one thing I don't understand about these boards is a poster will ask a question which may or may not be answered but many will chime in to many tangential or colateral issues as if to show how thorough they can be. I totally apreciate their throughness but think it would be more constructive to limit the response to the question at hand unless the poster queries "any additional items that might be in question".



Interesting. Seems you missed the actual original overall question, the poster's location, the provided photos, and the summarization/conclusion.




Does anyone know how far an above ground pool should be from the house foundation and the below grade basement walls.
I am concerned about the load and the affect it could have on the basement foundation walls.
I don't see many pools and I can't find any info. on the subject.

H.G. Watson, Sr.
01-02-2011, 08:39 AM
As an engineer, what you perceive might be existing and what is are two different things. The lateral loading on the foundation will be virtually nonexsistent since the load will be rapidly dispersed throughout the surrounding soil. Remember the load will go straight down, so any load on the foundation would have to come from soil compression.

Explain yourself!

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/attachments/pool-spa-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/17655d1273091305-above-ground-pool-close-house-foundation-dscn2993.jpg


http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/attachments/pool-spa-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/17656d1273091305-above-ground-pool-close-house-foundation-dscn3005.jpg

Rod Butler
01-05-2011, 11:34 AM
Explain yourself!




If I understand him he is in complete agreement with your May 6th post.

Heron Longoria Jr.
01-13-2011, 10:41 AM
Don't know if anybody's mention the "water bonding" now required by the 2008 N.E.C...Section 680.26(C)....intentional bond of the water from the rest of the bonded system of he pool...
This is something everyone needs to start looking at and probably no one is at all...

Rick Hurst
01-13-2011, 01:14 PM
Don't know if anybody's mention the "water bonding" now required by the 2008 N.E.C...Section 680.26(C)....intentional bond of the water from the rest of the bonded system of he pool...
This is something everyone needs to start looking at and probably no one is at all...

Mr. Longoria,

As a pool inspector, please don't assume we all fell off the turnip truck this morning.:D

rick