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Ryan Vega
11-10-2010, 12:45 PM
I have a few questions for you guys about our upcoming home inspection on the house we are hoping to sell very soon. Independent inspector chosen by buyer comes this sunday.

2 questions are related to this forum 1 is not so if I am out of line asking the unrelated one in this forum I am sorry ahead of time. We are in Indiana if it makes any difference.

1. Our home is on a slab and the duct work seems to run through the slab. It does not appear to have sheetmetal type ducts in the slab just an open area within the slab itself..like a concrete tunnel. Home was built in 1950. I suspect this will not be an issue since we passed FHA inspection when we purchased this house 5 years ago and it was the same way. Besides being inefficent, which our utility bills are always fairly resosnable, is this going to be an issue?

2. My AC unit has a quirk about it. When I first go to turn it on, the compressor outside cycles on for just an second, then about 90 seconds later it turns on and runs with no other issues. Not sure why, HVAC folks that do our mainteance have not seemed to be worried about it. Is this going to come back and cause me headaches with my sale?

3. Our laundry room had a floor drain when we moved in. A short time later we found it did not drain so when I redid our flooring, I just covered it up. Will this be an issue?

Thanks for reading. I hope your answers to each question are...not a big problem, but life tends to not work out that way for me. I worry so I thought I'd ask and see how much I should be worried, so when I find out one of these is an issue I won't be shocked.
Ryan

Nick Ostrowski
11-10-2010, 01:27 PM
Hi Ryan. I'll try and help here.

1 - Ducts running through the slab of a slab-on-grade home are far from ideal and could be problematic, especially if the ducts are just unlined concrete tunnels. Even if there was actual ductwork there, it would likely not prevent the duct runs from taking on groundwater or allowing insect or rodent entry. Any of these things getting into the duct runs could contaminate the air stream in the house (ie - stagnant water, rodent droppings, etc.). You most likely will not find many home inspectors who are OK with ducts installed in the nature you describe.

2 - If I were to observe this type of condition, I would document what I observed in the report and advise to have the system serviced by an HVAC pro. You already said you've had it looked it and the HVAC company is not concerned about it. Did they give any explanation as to why it is occurring?

3 - I would not have an issue with a covered floor drain that was never operable assuming it had been sealed properly to prevent anything from backing up in the pipe and into the room.

The duct work in the slab, or lack thereof, appears to be the most potentially significant of the three issues you mentioned. Have you experienced any type of air quality issues in the house like odors coming from the ducts?

Ryan Vega
11-10-2010, 01:48 PM
Nick,
Thanks for your response.

1. eeek and ugh :( This sounds like bad news for us. While I can't pin point any smells or air quality issues in the house, I also can't say that there are none since a person becomes acustom to the smells of a home over time. This sounds generally bad for us. However the only small saving grace I hold on to is that these same ducts passed FHA inspection in 2006. However we'll be subjected to independent and FHA inspections during our sale.

2. I do not recall what they said about this issue. Will an inspector run the AC if temps are in the 30's-40's outside? Maybe I need not worry? :) *hopeful* but then again my luck isn't that good :(

3. Yeah the floor drain never worked and there is no evidence of it in the room now, which is why I asked if an inspector would give us guff for not seeing one.

I appreciate your insight to this as it helps me prepare mentally for what will come back from this inspection. Which doesn't sound promising at this point.

Benjamin Thompson
11-10-2010, 05:21 PM
If you haven't already disclosed these items to the buyer, your bad! If so, they probably won't be an issue.

Ryan Vega
11-10-2010, 05:35 PM
If you haven't already disclosed these items to the buyer, your bad! If so, they probably won't be an issue.

Well we haven't disclosed anything because everything still works and is functional. I was just worried about the inspector commenting on the efficency of my setup and the unusual quirk with my ac unit. There is no known water in the slab duct work nor any known problems that prevent anything from working.. is it the most efficent setup? probably not. Air quality from slab ducts seem to be a nonissue as we've been in our house for nearly 5 years and have never had any different or unusual issues with health. We didn't disclose anything because there really isn't anything to disclose....maybe the AC quirk..but again it still works.

Thanks!
Ryan

Dub Smith
11-10-2010, 06:40 PM
Ryan, I was just thinking, if your buyer's Home Inspector is reading these posts, he will probably appreciate the "heads up" on these issues you have just raised. My advice is always to be open and honest in any business dealing.... it helps you sleep better at night.;)

James Duffin
11-10-2010, 06:58 PM
Ryan....the house has to meet the code it was built under. It the duct work was approved when the house was built and is still working properly it should not be a problem now....at least that would be my argument if I was in your shoes. The A/C and drain would either be a small or non-issue I would imagine.

Scott Patterson
11-10-2010, 07:54 PM
I have a few questions for you guys about our upcoming home inspection on the house we are hoping to sell very soon. Independent inspector chosen by buyer comes this sunday.

2 questions are related to this forum 1 is not so if I am out of line asking the unrelated one in this forum I am sorry ahead of time. We are in Indiana if it makes any difference.

1. Our home is on a slab and the duct work seems to run through the slab. It does not appear to have sheetmetal type ducts in the slab just an open area within the slab itself..like a concrete tunnel. Home was built in 1950. I suspect this will not be an issue since we passed FHA inspection when we purchased this house 5 years ago and it was the same way. Besides being inefficent, which our utility bills are always fairly resosnable, is this going to be an issue?

The FHA inspection was most likely the appraisal. This does not mean anything. HUD does not address in slab ducts.


2. My AC unit has a quirk about it. When I first go to turn it on, the compressor outside cycles on for just an second, then about 90 seconds later it turns on and runs with no other issues. Not sure why, HVAC folks that do our mainteance have not seemed to be worried about it. Is this going to come back and cause me headaches with my sale?
The fan runs first?


3. Our laundry room had a floor drain when we moved in. A short time later we found it did not drain so when I redid our flooring, I just covered it up. Will this be an issue?
How did you cover it up? Did you fill it or cap it?


Thanks for reading. I hope your answers to each question are...not a big problem, but life tends to not work out that way for me. I worry so I thought I'd ask and see how much I should be worried, so when I find out one of these is an issue I won't be shocked.
Ryan

Good luck....

Benjamin Thompson
11-10-2010, 07:55 PM
Well we haven't disclosed anything because everything still works and is functional. I was just worried about the inspector commenting on the efficency of my setup and the unusual quirk with my ac unit. There is no known water in the slab duct work nor any known problems that prevent anything from working.. is it the most efficent setup? probably not. Air quality from slab ducts seem to be a nonissue as we've been in our house for nearly 5 years and have never had any different or unusual issues with health. We didn't disclose anything because there really isn't anything to disclose....maybe the AC quirk..but again it still works.

Thanks!
Ryan

I disagree. The fact that you are bringing these issues up shows that you are aware that they may be problems. I don't know what the disclosure laws are in your state and may be way off base, but where I am, if you even think something may be a problem, you are required to disclose it.

James Duffin
11-10-2010, 08:12 PM
Everything may be a problem. I think the disclosure is to disclose things that the seller knows are a problem. I don't think that includes guessing.

Rick Hurst
11-10-2010, 08:14 PM
Ryan has made it public record now by posting it on the internet. Maybe the buyer won't be reading these posts. :rolleyes:

rick

Scott Patterson
11-10-2010, 08:17 PM
Ryan has made it public record now by posting it on the internet. Maybe the buyer won't be reading these posts. :rolleyes:

rick

Gee, did I just quote his entire post? ;)

Ted Menelly
11-10-2010, 08:17 PM
Possible ducts in slab

Ryan Vega
11-10-2010, 08:31 PM
Thanks for all your replies I appreciate it and if I sounded defensive I appoligize.

I think that a good point is raised in this dicussion...it seems like each inspector will be very different..and it sounds like it all depends. But i do appreciate everyones thoughts. and please don't think I'm trying to hide something from the inspectors or our buyers. I simply just wanted to know if my worries were valid or invalid. And it sounds like the only way to find out answers is to wait....the waiting is the worst :)

@ Scott
The outdoor units fan spins up and then stops when the thermostat is turned from OFF to COOL. Then about a minute later the system kicks on and runs properly with absoultely no issues. This ONLY happens when the thermostat is changed from OFF to COOL. It does not happen any other time. I think this is why my HVAC folks were not totally concerned since the unit runs fine after that. I think they may have even said something about a funky thermostat toggle. I don't recall though I know the ac works because I am not at all happy in the summer when it is hot :)

Per the floor drain. The only way I was able to take care of it to cover it was to place a small stopper inside the drain (small piece of wood) mix some concrete (i'm on a concrete slab) and put the concrete on top of the wood stopper. I tested the drain multiple times before filling and knew the concrete wouldn't drain down it because nothing was going down.

Ryan Vega
11-10-2010, 08:47 PM
Gee, did I just quote his entire post? ;)

why do i get the feeling you guys think i'm trying to be dirty or something?
I simply want to know how confident or unconfident I should feel about our home sale.
If my questions were phrased incorrectly I appoligize but please don't try to read between the lines or anything I just want to know if I can be excited about getting our new home or if we will continue to live in our house now for a while longer....
:( just trying to get an idea..i'm no inspector nor do I know the top of things you guys look for...

John Kogel
11-10-2010, 09:17 PM
Start with a happy inspector. Make sure there is good access to the electrical panel, the attic hatch and the furnace, no junk in the way. Put your excess stuff in boxes in the garage if you have to, but leave good access around them. Put the kitty litter somewhere he doesn't have to go near it. :) Clean up your breakfast dishes and clean out the stinking sink. Clean garbage pails and get recycling out from under the sink, and throw 3/4 of the junk under the bathroom sinks out so he can see under there. Replace burnt out lightbulbs. Don't put rugs over blemishes in the floor or bowls of fruit over burn marks in the counters. The inspector will look under them and know you've tried to hide things. He will dig til he finds them all, stuff you don't even know about. Clean the place up and picture it thru the buyer's eyes. Don't sweat the small stuff if the bigger items are ok. If the price is right, it will sell.

Ryan Vega
11-10-2010, 09:25 PM
Thanks John,
We had already planned on cleaning our house all up and doing anything we can to make the inspectors life as easy as possible. We are treating the inspection just like a showing and cleaning up everything possible so its presentable. Thanks for the notes about clearing under the sinks..didn't even think about that. Oh we weren't going to try to hide anything we figure stuff will be found anyways we just hope for the best with respect to what is found and hope it won't push our buyers away.

Darren Miller
11-11-2010, 04:41 AM
Ryan....the house has to meet the code it was built under. It the duct work was approved when the house was built and is still working properly it should not be a problem now....at least that would be my argument if I was in your shoes. The A/C and drain would either be a small or non-issue I would imagine.

He said the ducts looks "like a concrete tunnel". In my area, that usually means Asbestos.

Still think it should not be a problem?

Richard Stanley
11-11-2010, 05:03 AM
If the buyer wanted a pefect house they probably would not be interested in yours. Since they are interested and proceeding with the tranaction, my advice is to not worry about it. If there is something in the report from the HI that throws cold water on their intentions ,,, it can be negotiated - ie; fixed or bought (pay them via price concessions to close the deal). In any event, wait until you hear from them before you try to imagine a problem. I would imagine that you have better things to do.

Ted Williams
11-11-2010, 06:36 AM
The things people spend their time worrying about usually don't happen. Life's larger problems always come from the blind side.

Scott Patterson
11-11-2010, 06:59 AM
why do i get the feeling you guys think i'm trying to be dirty or something?
I simply want to know how confident or unconfident I should feel about our home sale.
If my questions were phrased incorrectly I appoligize but please don't try to read between the lines or anything I just want to know if I can be excited about getting our new home or if we will continue to live in our house now for a while longer....
:( just trying to get an idea..i'm no inspector nor do I know the top of things you guys look for...

I think most of us are just playing with you a bit... :)

I would not worry about the drain and since it is not even visible I would not even mention it. But, you have already done that on this public discussion board, so you should place it on the sellers disclosure form as being sealed and not functional.

As for the A/C, this sounds like more of an issue with the thermostat.

Your largest hurdle to overcome will be in the in-slab air ducts. It all depends on the inspector, maybe he will attend church on Sunday before the inspection and he will be in a benevolent mood.

Ryan Vega
11-11-2010, 07:45 AM
I think most of us are just playing with you a bit... :)

I would not worry about the drain and since it is not even visible I would not even mention it. But, you have already done that on this public discussion board, so you should place it on the sellers disclosure form as being sealed and not functional.

As for the A/C, this sounds like more of an issue with the thermostat.

Your largest hurdle to overcome will be in the in-slab air ducts. It all depends on the inspector, maybe he will attend church on Sunday before the inspection and he will be in a benevolent mood.


Scott,
Thanks for the reassurance. I am at a very high stress level right now with the buying and selling of our homes plus our first baby boy is due just about 2 months so I'm really stressed to the max...so thanks again for clearing that up. I just want everything to go ok.

Someone had mentioned asbestos...I'm almost 100% sure (never seen them it person but compared to pictures on google) that my heating does not run through asbestos. All sides look and feel exactly like concrete. Again hopefully if the inspector does mention it to the buyer they won't mind all that much. Our house is at a first time buyers price point, in ready to move in condition, and we are already taking a loss on selling it so we will be fixing nothing unless its less than $30. :) Plus our average utilities bill over the past few years is less than $90 a month which is pretty good so even if the duct work sucks it does the job at a fairly decent rate...not as good as it could but still not costing a ton.

Thanks again for your input. Sorry if I was a little sensitive, but again I'm super stressed and want our move to go through as seemlessly as possible before the holidays and baby arrives.

Ted Menelly
11-11-2010, 08:54 AM
Scott,
Thanks for the reassurance. I am at a very high stress level right now with the buying and selling of our homes plus our first baby boy is due just about 2 months so I'm really stressed to the max...so thanks again for clearing that up. I just want everything to go ok.

Someone had mentioned asbestos...I'm almost 100% sure (never seen them it person but compared to pictures on google) that my heating does not run through asbestos. All sides look and feel exactly like concrete. Again hopefully if the inspector does mention it to the buyer they won't mind all that much. Our house is at a first time buyers price point, in ready to move in condition, and we are already taking a loss on selling it so we will be fixing nothing unless its less than $30. :) Plus our average utilities bill over the past few years is less than $90 a month which is pretty good so even if the duct work sucks it does the job at a fairly decent rate...not as good as it could but still not costing a ton.

Thanks again for your input. Sorry if I was a little sensitive, but again I'm super stressed and want our move to go through as seamlessly as possible before the holidays and baby arrives.

$90.00 utility bills? I would say that you never run the air conditioner and the heat you must set at 65 in the winter and walk around with long johns, a double layer of clothes and a bath robe on top of that and some warm an fuzzy slippers

Ryan Vega
11-11-2010, 09:05 AM
$90.00 utility bills? I would say that you never run the air conditioner and the heat you must set at 65 in the winter and walk around with long johns, a double layer of clothes and a bath robe on top of that and some warm an fuzzy slippers


Yep $90 on average over the last couple years...and nope we stay comfortable :), infact I have bad circulation so my hands and feet are always cold so I tend to knock it up a couple notches in the winter, and I'm crabby when its too hot so in the summer i tend to keep it nice N cool. Its a small home, less than 800 sq feet, with a 95% efficency furance (at least it burns at 95% effency, the crappy duct design eats some of our efficency i'm sure), recently insulated exterior walls, and programmable thermostat, all our bulbs are CFL, we switched from desktop pcs to laptops because they use less power, I'm an enviromental nut so we do all we can to save energy and money... The utilities are what we are using to help market our house to buyers...Avg last 12 months only is $62.46... median of $57, lowest $44, highest 89. We are not on any special program or budget plan with our provider :) just low bills from controlled usage.

Rick Hurst
11-11-2010, 10:29 AM
Ryan,

You probably have nothing to worry about. If the inspector is coming out on a Sunday, he's probably what we refer to as a "newbie" and is performing home inspections as a part-timer.

Lucky for you, cause he probably doesn't know sh*# from Shinola.

He'll probably catch those loose door knobs though, so you might want to tighten those up.:D

rick

Ryan Vega
11-11-2010, 11:09 AM
Ryan,

You probably have nothing to worry about. If the inspector is coming out on a Sunday, he's probably what we refer to as a "newbie" and is performing home inspections as a part-timer.

Lucky for you, cause he probably doesn't know sh*# from Shinola.

He'll probably catch those loose door knobs though, so you might want to tighten those up.:D

rick

HAHAAH well we'll see. I'm to the point now where all I can do is hope. We can't afford to fix anything major if its found because we are already taking a loss on the sale. So its out of our hands now..and in the buyers and inspectors hands...Thanks for your input!

James Duffin
11-11-2010, 12:32 PM
He said the ducts looks "like a concrete tunnel". In my area, that usually means Asbestos.

Still think it should not be a problem?

In my area a concrete tunnel is called a concrete tunnel. Your area should change their terminology to an asbestos tunnel it seems if you folks are calling concrete asbestos. I see nothing wrong with blowing air through a concrete tunnel so I still won't see a problem until one exists. Never been one to make stuff up....sorry!

Jerry Peck
11-11-2010, 05:57 PM
He said the ducts looks "like a concrete tunnel".


Concrete is not an approved duct material.

If the ducts look like a concrete tunnel, that may mean the steel duct is rusted out and gone, and that would not be good.

Bob Knauff
11-11-2010, 06:27 PM
Seriously Ryan, the house is a bit older now and time takes it's toll no matter how well the owner tries to maintain it. What you are concerned about may not be a big deal to the buyers inspector (or they might) but they may find other issues that are important that you may not be even aware of. That is one of the reasons people hire a home inspector, to discover potential issues that may not be readily apparent.

I suggest hiring your own home inspector to give the place a once over. Express your concerns to them like you have done here, to be addressed on site. After that, you will have a good handle on the condition of the rest of the home as well as the problems you have or perceive to have now.

Then when the buyers inspector toddles in and "discovers" an issue you should be able to say, "Yeah, my inspector told me about that and I decided to just lower the price of the house a bit to compensate for it instead of fixing it. That way the buyer will have the money to fix it if they wish". Or, you can fix an issue your guy finds and then not have to say anything to anybody about it.

For a relatively few dollars, ultimately you will gain a detailed insight into the condition of your home at that point in time giving you the background to (hopefully) successfully argue against a price decrease because "things need to be fixed", as we HI's so often see happen after an inspection.

Ryan Vega
11-11-2010, 07:05 PM
Bob,
Thanks for your response. We thought about that but as I said we already are taking a loss so we'll just have to risk the buyers inspection and see what comes back if there is anything major then we'll know for next time.
*crossing our fingers and hoping*

Benjamin Thompson
11-11-2010, 08:14 PM
Everything may be a problem. I think the disclosure is to disclose things that the seller knows are a problem. I don't think that includes guessing.
So James, If you were filling out a disclosure on a home you were selling, would you mention any of the items he is asking about?

CHARLIE VAN FLEET
11-11-2010, 08:26 PM
now now rick

i do inspections on sundays---and i'm not a newbie, have done over 1000 inspections in my five years. yes i only do one inspection a day, because i want it that way, i take my days off mid week to play golf to avoid the weekend hackers. so go easy my good man.
there are some great inspectors who do weekend inspections. i'm sure more now adays with the business slow in some areas. but it's not slow for me

cvf

Jerry Peck
11-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Ryan,

Think of filling out your seller disclosure this way: For the house you are BUYING ... if the seller knew what you know ... would you want the seller to disclose that information on the seller disclosure FOR YOU when buying THEIR HOUSE?

Ryan Vega
11-11-2010, 09:33 PM
Ryan,

Think of filling out your seller disclosure this way: For the house you are BUYING ... if the seller knew what you know ... would you want the seller to disclose that information on the seller disclosure FOR YOU when buying THEIR HOUSE?

The thing is there is nothing broken to disclose...perhaps the quirk in the thermostat but again I was told to not worry too much about that by my HVAC folks since it cycles on properly once its in run mode...So thats what I have done..and I figure what is there to disclose ...is there any problems that will pop up 2 weeks after we sell that I am intentionally hiding? No absolutely not, at least not that I am fully aware of or been made aware of..In fact if we were to stay I expect everything in this home will continue to function for a good time with out problems... Ethics problem solved. My initial reason again for posting was to just see how confident I should feel about our home sale since its our first home we are selling, thus our first inspection we've been though. The things I bought up are just some things that I wondered about and if an inspector would note them and to what extent. I didn't want to get our hopes up if one of these factors (the only things I've noticed while owning the house that I could think of that may or may not be an issue). Not trying to hide anything....not covering up anything....using experts in areas that I'm not fully educated in and following their advice.. I understand that there may be visitors here that try to fool the system... I am not one of those people I just came here looking for an idea as to if I should get that home selling/buying joy and excitement yet or stay reserved and prepared that some of my items may be kinda bad. I don't know the first thing about home building, contractors, , or many of the things involved in building or analyzing a home. i'm an IT guy...so I came here to see if I was just over thinking our pending inspection or if I should be prepared to hear something bad about one of my items. I would like to feel happy that our house has a buyer and also the fact that we found a new home that accepted our offer for it..but with so many hoops to jump though before a house sells I thought this would be a great place to ask how happy or cautious I should feel. Thats all. Sorry for ranting the stress of dealing with all this home stuff, mortgage apps, new baby, and normal day to day stuff has really started to take its toll on me. For those of you who have provided a answer to my basic original questions I thank you once again. The answers to my questions seem to be mostly it depends on the inspector as to what is found and reported. And I am ok with that it was just worth asking to see if I could ease my curiousity ahead of time.

Patrick McCaffery
11-12-2010, 03:51 AM
Ryan,
I can certainly appreciate how you would feel having an inspector come through your house, I would not wish to have one come through mine right now.
A good inspector will report on the conditions as he finds them, he will describe the impact to his client and make recommendations as to how the problems should be fixed.
If for some reason, this particular deal does not go through, you should consider hiring your own inspector for a pre-sale inspection. You can them make the corrections and then your stress will be reduced.

Darren Miller
11-12-2010, 04:49 AM
In my area a concrete tunnel is called a concrete tunnel. Your area should change their terminology to an asbestos tunnel it seems if you folks are calling concrete asbestos. I see nothing wrong with blowing air through a concrete tunnel so I still won't see a problem until one exists. Never been one to make stuff up....sorry!

James,

I've never seen a 'concrete tunnel'. I've seen asbestos that sellers and 'contractors' thought was concrete.

I don't know the area he lives in; if asbestos was common during the period of construction. here in NJ, I see underfloor asbestos all the time.

Hey Ryan; open a register and shoot some pictures of these "ducts' for all of us to see. Take one look down from the living space then hold your camera inside the ducts and take a couple of shots.

James Duffin
11-12-2010, 05:56 AM
James,

I've never seen a 'concrete tunnel'. I've seen asbestos that sellers and 'contractors' thought was concrete.

I don't know the area he lives in; if asbestos was common during the period of construction. here in NJ, I see underfloor asbestos all the time.

Hey Ryan; open a register and shoot some pictures of these "ducts' for all of us to see. Take one look down from the living space then hold your camera inside the ducts and take a couple of shots.

I am not sure how you are identifying asbestos unless you carry a microscope around with you. The WAG method is not approved in the NC SOP. :)

Bruce Adams
11-12-2010, 08:46 AM
Ryan
You must have been a first time buyer when you purchased this home. And was under the misconception that you were getting an inspection through the HUD that you did pay for. And I do hope you learned something. HUD is not there to protect you. There purpose is to protect the loan. There is a big difference between a Home inspection and a HUD inspection.

If I was the inspector that was inspecting your home I would like to know about the covered drain. I would not make a big issue of it but would like for my client to know about it so it is not a surprise in the future. And them finding it and thinking what else were they hiding. And when they call me having and to tell them that they are going to have to call you. Disclose everything about the home that you know. Then it does not come back to bite you. The disclosure is to protect you.

Not seeing your ducts, an early 1950s home. there is the possibility of having asbestos in them. That does not make them bad in its self. They can be sealed. And that is all that is required. See Managing ASBESTOS. Allot of the Asbestos products were a hard concrete product. There are many good products out there today to seal the ducts with. When you remove Asbestos is when it becomes expensive. Your ducts may just be concrete ducts. It was allowed in the forty's and fifty's and was cheaper than putting in asbestos. Was used allot in the early slab and basement homes. If they are concrete asbestos or just concrete, makes no difference. If I was doing the Inspection I would recommend that the ducts need to be cleaned, further evaluated and possibly sealed by a qualified professional. I can only report on what I can see. The ducts are 60 years old. It is what I can't see that becomes the issue.

I have done inspections sense 1998 and have always given my clients the option of Sat. or Sunday.
Bruce Adams

Ryan Vega
11-12-2010, 09:06 AM
Bruce,
Thanks for your honest response. While its not exactly music to my ears I do appreciate your info. Yes we were first time home buyers for this house...:( live and learn I guess. I am hoping that based on the size and location of my house they went for the cheapest form of building it and skipped the asbestos..both for my family's health and financial security and for the hope of our sale.
I'm actually more fearful now of what we might have been living in and not just selling the house.. :(
The only way I will be able to find out what exactly the ducts are made of for sure is to hire a home inspector for ourselves or is that a different individual that would be able to tell me that? It sounds like from what others are saying that concrete...concrete asbestos...could be hard to distingush even if you saw it in person.
It looks like my only small piece of hope is that somewhere along the history of this house someone had an inspection done and it was deeemd asbestos free. I pray that we have not been putting our self in a health hazard.

Mitchell Toelle
11-12-2010, 10:16 AM
Ryan,

you said: "It looks like my only small piece of hope is that somewhere along the history of this house someone had an inspection done and it was deeemd asbestos free."

Hope will not keep you out of trouble later on. If the Inspector arriving Sunday is new and he does not inspect the ducts, or cannot determine the "possibility" of asbestos in the lining, and you had a hunch from previous posts here that it might, then this is exactly the reason "disclosure" is important to you. It is for your protection down the line. Just modify your disclosure and include that you do not know for sure. It will then fall to the buyers to have this reviewed by another professional should they be concerned and it will probably not fall on your shoulders. I don't believe you are required to pay for this type of testing if you disclose it. However, if you don't mention it in disclosure and the Inspector (Sunday) raises a concern you may be asked to have further testing performed.

This is only a possible scenario but is something to consider. You might want to discuss it with your Agent and modify your disclosure statement. Even mentioning the quirky thermostat could be important. IMHO

Also, do as suggested in an earlier post and put some digital pictures up on here so we can see the ducts (wide shots, inside, describe each and where it is shot from, etc ).

Good luck.

Ryan Vega
11-12-2010, 11:28 AM
Mitchell
Thanks for your response I am very grateful of the input you guys have provided but I fear that I am making myself super crazy over this. I have absolutely no hunch, thought, idea, consideration, fact, belief, opinion, or anything else as to any hazardous materials in my house. Others here are spectulating that is may be possible but that is based on only date information and vauge descriptions of materials from an unknowing home owner. My claim is that I am 100% unaware of any hazards my house poses to myself, my family, others, or buyers. If something is found at any point in time from it will be news to me and my wife. That is the claim I make now and that is the claim I made on my disclosure. We've not brought any materials into this home or done any modifcations since buying it to make the living environment a hazard to anyones health.

Gary DeWitt
11-12-2010, 11:54 AM
Asbestos is not only possible, it's likely to be in just about any older building. It was used in over 3,000 products, including many building materials during the last century. Here is a link to more information than you probably want:
Asbestos | US EPA (http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/index.html)
Please read up on it for your own peace of mind (or not).

It's far beyond the scope of a home inspection to detect environmental hazards, that would be up to a specialist. If I inspected your home, I would ask for an evaluation of your heating system, hopefully by a contractor with the equipment to video scope those "tunnels" to make sure there is nothing in there to threaten health, like water, mold, etc.
Your system could be just fine, but I would want to know for sure before living there.

Bruce Adams
11-12-2010, 12:09 PM
Bruce,
Thanks for your honest response. While its not exactly music to my ears I do appreciate your info. Yes we were first time home buyers for this house...:( live and learn I guess. I am hoping that based on the size and location of my house they went for the cheapest form of building it and skipped the asbestos..both for my family's health and financial security and for the hope of our sale.
I'm actually more fearful now of what we might have been living in and not just selling the house.. :(
The only way I will be able to find out what exactly the ducts are made of for sure is to hire a home inspector for ourselves or is that a different individual that would be able to tell me that? It sounds like from what others are saying that concrete...concrete asbestos...could be hard to distingush even if you saw it in person.
It looks like my only small piece of hope is that somewhere along the history of this house someone had an inspection done and it was deeemd asbestos free. I pray that we have not been putting our self in a health hazard.


Ryan
A home inspector is not the person you need for inspecting the ducts. I wish it was that easy. You would need to contact an enviromentalist for sampling and testing. Although I do Sampling using government standards there are not many Home Inspectors that have the equipment nor certification. And is not a part of the home inspection. If it becomes an issue, address it at that time. Have it sealed and move on. It does not have to be removed. Modify your disclosure statement to say that the home was built in 1950 and may have Asbestos and possible lead paint. And that you covered a floor drain. Most people know that if they are purchasing that old of home these are possible. If the sale falls through think about having the ducts cleaned and sealed with a proper coating. Then disclose what was done. Remember to me I do not care if they are Asbestos concrete or concrete, they both have issues. As the home owner you can do this yourself. I do not recommend you doing it yourself. Have someone that is qualified that can give you the certification that it was done correctly with the proper products. If you were to call me to sample the ducts for Asbestos. I would inform you the I would be more than happy to take your $150.00 per sample plus lab fees. But you are wasting your money. Spend the money to do what is needed to take care of the problem.

Darren Miller
11-13-2010, 05:12 AM
I am not sure how you are identifying asbestos unless you carry a microscope around with you. The WAG method is not approved in the NC SOP. :)

Identifying asbestos is not that difficult (if you know what to look for and are willing to look for it). If you're in an area that has lots of asbestos, you better be looking out for it and your clients best interest.
In this area it's fairly common on heat piping, duct insulation, furnaces and boilers, flue pipes, and of course what other people may call 'concrete tunnels'.
As a matter of fact, just last week on found asbestos on a transition pipe from the roof downspouts to the underground pipe. So even though it's outside the scope of a HI, I would rather 'mis-identify' a material then have my clients at risk.

WAG's may be common in your area, but here the good inspectors protect their clients. But then again, good inspectors don't kneel down to realtors ;-)

Garry Sorrells
11-13-2010, 06:32 AM
Ryan,
Like Home Inspector, Environment Inspector, Mold Inspector, Etc. who have expertise in their individual fields and can speak to issues that they have knowledge and experience about. Each is expected to be compliant in their field and usually require licensing to demonstrate that expertise. Your knowledge and relative expertise is limited to what yu know and what you have seen. To that fact state what you know as fact to all parties concerned in the sale of you property. Do not hide or obfuscate any issues you have with the property. It is possible through conjecture to come up with just about any thing imaginable. Is is possible that your house was built over a graveyard, hello Poltergeist the movie. Stick with what you know not what fears you can dredge up. Let the Home Inspector do his/her job answer questions with what you know as fact not speculation and take everything in stride.

Good luck with the sale

Bruce Adams
11-13-2010, 07:32 AM
Identifying asbestos is not that difficult (if you know what to look for and are willing to look for it). If you're in an area that has lots of asbestos, you better be looking out for it and your clients best interest.
In this area it's fairly common on heat piping, duct insulation, furnaces and boilers, flue pipes, and of course what other people may call 'concrete tunnels'.
As a matter of fact, just last week on found asbestos on a transition pipe from the roof downspouts to the underground pipe. So even though it's outside the scope of a HI, I would rather 'mis-identify' a material then have my clients at risk.
WAG's may be common in your area, but here the good inspectors protect their clients. But then again, good inspectors don't kneel down to realtors ;-)

Darren
I disagree with you. You can not always tell if something has asbestos by what you think you know. I can lay two materials of siding side by side one with asbestos and one without. They will look the same. I can take two peaces of tape one asbestos and one without. I can take two peaces of insulation one with. one without. You would not be able to tell the difference. I have done samples that I would have bet everything on to have asbestos and no asbestos was found. If you suspect it then tell your client that there is a possibility that there is asbestos and recommend further evaluation. The lab person will tell you that he does not always know until the test is complete. I have found Asbestos in buildings built in the 80s and asbestos has been outlawed sense 1973. I have taken samples from a 80 year old spider furnace that I would have bet that would have had asbestos. No asbestos was found. If you were looking at the ducts on this home and they looked like concrete would you be able to tell that they were asbestos. And then tell your client they are asbestos. Better not go there. Leave it to the lab. Tell your client that there is the possibility of asbestos and you recommend further testing. By the qualified people.

Darren Miller
11-14-2010, 03:42 AM
Ryan,

Tell us the outcome.

Bruce,

You have a PM

Scott Patterson
11-14-2010, 09:30 AM
Today is the big day! :)

Ryan Vega
11-15-2010, 08:35 AM
Hey everyone. The initial report, via what little the inspector could tell my agent legally, and by finding our buyer on facebook and the comments were positive about the inspection. I hope this is true because we have to get our inspection done on our new home before wednesday since thats the last day we put in the contract for an inspection, thus why my agent was trying to get any info possible from the inspector. I've never been so glad for a weekend to be over.

Any tips on what to look for when hiring a home inspector? I assume licensed, insured, and certifed...anything else? :)

Nick Ostrowski
11-15-2010, 08:40 AM
Facebook can be a dangerous thing. Precisely why I am not on it.

Glad to hear it sounds as though things went well Ryan. But I do wonder if the ducts in the slab raised any suspicions for the inspector or if they registered with him at all.

John Kogel
11-15-2010, 08:43 AM
Hey everyone. The initial report, via what little the inspector could tell my agent legally, and by finding our buyer on facebook and the comments were positive about the inspection. I hope this is true because we have to get our inspection done on our new home before wednesday since thats the last day we put in the contract for an inspection, thus why my agent was trying to get any info possible from the inspector. I've never been so glad for a weekend to be over.

Any tips on what to look for when hiring a home inspector? I assume licensed, insured, and certifed...anything else? :)Give us a location and someone here can give you a name. Need more time? Ask the seller of the new home for more time! You are the guy with the cash, remember that.

Bruce Adams
11-15-2010, 06:06 PM
Hey everyone. The initial report, via what little the inspector could tell my agent legally, and by finding our buyer on facebook and the comments were positive about the inspection. I hope this is true because we have to get our inspection done on our new home before wednesday since thats the last day we put in the contract for an inspection, thus why my agent was trying to get any info possible from the inspector. I've never been so glad for a weekend to be over.

Any tips on what to look for when hiring a home inspector? I assume licensed, insured, and certifed...anything else? :)

Ryan
Go to the site for American Society of Home Inspectors since they are the only ones that meet the requirement of certification of the government. Or the the site for National Society of Home Inspectors. There certification is verily good. They are both good organizations. The other one a 12 year old can pass there test. I know for a fact. Contact who ever you choose and be sure to talk with them on there qualifications. Ask if you can be there during the inspection. Get there at the beginning of the inspection and go over any concerns you have with the home then leave and come back towards the end. So the inspector can go over everything that they find. Be sure you understand. Ask questions. If the inspector says they do not want you there call another inspector. Remember he/she works for you.
Bruce

matt faust
11-15-2010, 06:28 PM
[quote=CHARLIE VAN FLEET;150206]now now rick

i do inspections on sundays---and i'm not a newbie, have done over 1000 inspections in my five years. yes i only do one inspection a day, because i want it that way, i take my days off mid week to play golf to avoid the weekend hackers. so go easy my good man.
there are some great inspectors who do weekend inspections. i'm sure more now adays with the business slow in some areas. but it's not slow for me

cvf[/quote

AS I SAID - DO THE MATH...............

Charlie has done 1000 inspections on Sundays in 5 years.
hmmmmmmmm that is mathematically impossible.
I didn't know there were 200 Sundays in a year!

With ALL DUE RESPECT - Charlie would not be my inspector of choice.
And even with 1,000 inspections would be considered a novice inspector
in my service area.

mf.

James Duffin
11-15-2010, 06:43 PM
So when in your area are you no longer a novice?

Ted Menelly
11-15-2010, 07:04 PM
[quote=CHARLIE VAN FLEET;150206]now now rick

i do inspections on sundays---and i'm not a newbie, have done over 1000 inspections in my five years. yes i only do one inspection a day, because i want it that way, i take my days off mid week to play golf to avoid the weekend hackers. so go easy my good man.
there are some great inspectors who do weekend inspections. i'm sure more now adays with the business slow in some areas. but it's not slow for me

cvf[/quote

AS I SAID - DO THE MATH...............

Charlie has done 1000 inspections on Sundays in 5 years.
hmmmmmmmm that is mathematically impossible.
I didn't know there were 200 Sundays in a year!

With ALL DUE RESPECT - Charlie would not be my inspector of choice.
And even with 1,000 inspections would be considered a novice inspector
in my service area.

mf.

No one is a novice at 1,000 inspections. It does not mean they are a good one nor does it mean that someone with 5,000 inspections is any good at it or any better than a novice.

Again, no one is a novice after 200 a year for 5 years. 1 inspection a day x 5 days a week with several weeks of slow and golf over the course of the year is about 200 a year x 5 years is about a 1,000 inspections. Is he any good at it? I have no idea. Are you any good at it ? I have no idea.

Rick Hurst
11-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Hey everyone. The initial report, via what little the inspector could tell my agent legally, and by finding our buyer on facebook and the comments were positive about the inspection. I hope this is true because we have to get our inspection done on our new home before wednesday since thats the last day we put in the contract for an inspection, thus why my agent was trying to get any info possible from the inspector. I've never been so glad for a weekend to be over.

Any tips on what to look for when hiring a home inspector? I assume licensed, insured, and certifed...anything else? :)


So it was a Newbie as I suspected.

Tips on an Inspector, yeah someone on this site.:D

rick

Scott Patterson
11-16-2010, 06:47 AM
Ryan, I know several experianced inspectors in Indiana. What part of the state are you in?

You do want a person with experience. Experience in our profession tends to mean a good amount of learned knowledge. Learned knowledge is the stuff they can't teach in the one week home inspector class!

Certified does not mean diddly squat. A person can become a Certifed Home Inspector in as little as an hour with this organization International Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) (http://www.nachi.org). You are in a licensed state, this is what you need plus an inspector that has been in the profession more than a few years.

Ryan Vega
11-16-2010, 07:58 AM
Hey guys, thanks for your reponses.
I checked out both the National Society of Home Inspectors and American Society of Home Inspectors websites, gathered some recommendations from my agent, and spoke with a few people who had home inspections done in the past. I did find one that I liked that was on both the ASHI website and our agents recommended inspectors list that we scheduled for the inspection and radon testing.

Thanks again folks!

Rick Hurst
11-16-2010, 08:01 AM
Share his report on here when you get it so we can rip him a new one. :D

rick

Scott Patterson
11-16-2010, 08:03 AM
Hey guys, thanks for your reponses.
I checked out both the National Society of Home Inspectors and American Society of Home Inspectors websites, gathered some recommendations from my agent, and spoke with a few people who had home inspections done in the past. I did find one that I liked that was on both the ASHI website and our agents recommended inspectors list that we scheduled for the inspection and radon testing.

Thanks again folks!

Sounds like you are good to go! Good luck and let us know the outcome. I feel like I now have an extended "Yankee" family! :)

CHARLIE VAN FLEET
11-16-2010, 09:01 AM
matt

where did i say i only do inspections on sundays???.
it was suggested that if an inspector works sundays, he is a newbie, but i disagreed. 1000 inspections and i'm a newbie. poppycock

i sometimes do 6-7 inspections a week, but read my lips,ONLY ONE A DAY. and that is my choice. i refer others out.

with the housing market slow these days--i still got my 200 in--and the year isn't over
read what was written not what you want it to say

good day


cvf

Bruce Adams
11-16-2010, 11:01 AM
matt

where did i say i only do inspections on sundays???.
it was suggested that if an inspector works sundays, he is a newbie, but i disagreed. 1000 inspections and i'm a newbie. poppycock

i sometimes do 6-7 inspections a week, but read my lips,ONLY ONE A DAY. and that is my choice. i refer others out.

with the housing market slow these days--i still got my 200 in--and the year isn't over
read what was written not what you want it to say

good day


cvf

Charles
I have noted that to often on here that someone reads something into what is said that isn't there. Don't take it to heart. I understood what you were saying. I have more than 5000 inspections and must still be a newby. Because I do inspections on Sunday when the client requests that. I work for the client.
Bruce

David Bell
11-16-2010, 04:28 PM
As a small business owner, there are only 2 kinds of days. Days you're making money and days you're spending money. The given name of the day means nothing.

Ian Page
11-16-2010, 05:12 PM
If the day of the week ends in the lettters 'd' , 'a' and 'y' in that order - I do inspections. Usually one - sometimes two if circumstances permit. Sundays, schmundays...whatever! I never really thought about 'fully qualified' and experienced Inspectors only working weekdays, hmmm, interesting, looks like I can give myself a day off.

ip

Scott Patterson
11-16-2010, 07:37 PM
Well this thread took a fun turn...

I work Monday - Friday. Weekends are for the family and Church. It has worked well for my family and I for the past 15 years.

Benjamin Thompson
11-16-2010, 07:47 PM
As a small business owner, there are only 2 kinds of days. Days you're making money and days you're spending money. The given name of the day means nothing.
If you really believe that, you are missing out on alot of life, probably because you are working all the time or think way too much about money!

Bruce Adams
11-16-2010, 08:14 PM
Well this thread took a fun turn...

I work Monday - Friday. Weekends are for the family and Church. It has worked well for my family and I for the past 15 years.

Scott
I commend you on your choice of just working five days a week. My family is gone and I do not believe in the church. My god is with me at all times. Wherever I may be. More on the aspect of the true followers of Christ. I respect those that need the church. I do not do inspections before noon on Sunday. I made the choice to honor my clients. You have a family and you should give them some time. All inspectors that do Inspections on Sunday are not all Newbies. They all have there own reasons why they do the things they do. I know some very good inspectors that do inspections on Sundays and I know some inspectors that have been in this Profession for a long time that should not be doing inspections at all. You should never assume because they do things different from you that they are not a good inspector. I do not know anything about the inspector that did the inspection on Ryans home. Hopefully he was a conscientious inspector. And did his job as he was paid to do.
Bruce

James Duffin
11-17-2010, 03:17 AM
If you really believe that, you are missing out on alot of life, probably because you are working all the time or think way too much about money!

It's called being flexible and accommodating for you client which apparently you are neither. Gheeze....I can hardly see you since you are so high up on your pedestal.

David Bell
11-17-2010, 05:18 AM
If you really believe that, you are missing out on alot of life, probably because you are working all the time or think way too much about money!

Neither actually, service work knows no boundries. Furnaces, rooftop units and the like break down every day. I am on call 24/7 and do my best to remedy peoples problems quickly. When my kids were younger it was a completly different situation, I was a 7 to 3:30 guy.

Eric Van De Ven
11-17-2010, 06:30 AM
matt

where did i say i only do inspections on sundays???.
it was suggested that if an inspector works sundays, he is a newbie, but i disagreed. 1000 inspections and i'm a newbie. poppycock

i sometimes do 6-7 inspections a week, but read my lips,ONLY ONE A DAY. and that is my choice. i refer others out.

with the housing market slow these days--i still got my 200 in--and the year isn't over
read what was written not what you want it to say

good day


cvf

The way I read it, you have done over 1K inspections and, work on Sundays.
On occasion, I'll work on a Sunday, if it is the only time available to the client.
I try to make it a rare occurrence as it interferes with my Sunday morning golf group!
Choosing the days you work has nothing to do with the amount of experience you have.
And speaking of golf, 11:15 tee time today!:D

Scott Patterson
11-17-2010, 07:04 AM
Scott
I commend you on your choice of just working five days a week. My family is gone and I do not believe in the church. My god is with me at all times. Wherever I may be. More on the aspect of the true followers of Christ. I respect those that need the church. I do not do inspections before noon on Sunday. I made the choice to honor my clients. You have a family and you should give them some time. All inspectors that do Inspections on Sunday are not all Newbies. They all have there own reasons why they do the things they do. I know some very good inspectors that do inspections on Sundays and I know some inspectors that have been in this Profession for a long time that should not be doing inspections at all. You should never assume because they do things different from you that they are not a good inspector. I do not know anything about the inspector that did the inspection on Ryans home. Hopefully he was a conscientious inspector. And did his job as he was paid to do.
Bruce

Hey, whatever works for you is what you need to do.

I don't have a problem with folks that work on Sundays. Not working on weekends is the choice I made when I started my home inspection business. Prior to home inspections for about 16 years I worked around 70 hours a week in the corporate retail world, I have worked my share of Sundays.

Who knows, when our last child is out of the house I might decide to work a Saturday or two.

I hear folks talk all the time about being flexible and that they are meeting their clients needs by working weekends. That is great that you are willing to do this, but is it really necessary?

I have a few inspections under my belt and I think I might have lost a handful by not working on a Saturday. I have never had a request to work on Sunday, that might have something to do with being in the bible belt. My logic about not working weekends is that as a profession we can decide the hours we want to serve our clients. It is my opinion that the client(buyer) can take the time needed for an inspection if they are able to buy a home. They take the time to look for the home; they take the time to go to the mortgage lender (they are not open on weekends);and they take the time to go to the closing that will be held during the week as well.

It is all about ones priorities in life and in business.

Nick Ostrowski
11-17-2010, 07:05 AM
My wife is a school teacher and our son is in 2nd grade. I prefer to leave the weekends for us since we all spend a lot of time apart during the week. During the summer when they are both off and during busier times, I'll work Saturday mornings. I've worked Sundays but don't like and have done so under special circumstances.

There's no right or wrong schedule. If whatever you do works for you and your family, that's what matters.

Rick Hurst
11-17-2010, 11:30 AM
My reasoning for the inspector being possibly a newbie is that a seasoned Professional Home Inspector wouldn't schedule a home inspection at a "occupied" home on a Sunday. I think that doing so is a lack of respect for that homeowner in that it's a day of faith and for time with one's family. Plain and simple.

If you choose to work on Sunday or the weekend that is one's personal choice but when it intrudes on someone's else time you should reconsider.

Its amazing when you tell your clients that you work Mon.-Fri. and that you keep your weekends open for family time and to attend church, all of a sudden they find time to show up during the week to an appointment.

JMHO

rick

James Duffin
11-17-2010, 11:52 AM
Sunday is not a day of faith for everyone. I do a lot of inspections for an Israeli client and I don't think Sunday means a whole lot to him. I also guess that the people who don't inspect on Sunday don't go to Lowe's or the grocery store on Sunday either since those heathens should not be at work either. The nerve of some people who are trying to make a living to work on Sunday. Give me a break! :rolleyes:

Rick Hurst
11-17-2010, 11:58 AM
Going to Lowes or the grocery store on Sunday doesn't intrude on someone's else home or privacy either Mr. Duffin. Give me a break!
You mentioned the word "heathen" not me.

Nick Ostrowski
11-17-2010, 12:02 PM
There isn't a whole lot of convenience in selling a house. Maybe needing to take pictures or deer mounts down, putting some property in storage to reduce the appearance of clutter, leaving the house so potential buyers can come traipse through for a showing or open house or the home inspection.

If somebody wants to sell their house, they have to be flexible and make temporary changes up to and including going elsewhere for a few hours on a Sunday, especially in this market. Hell, Sundays are typically the only days where open houses take place around here.

Rick Hurst
11-17-2010, 12:06 PM
Nick,

Funny you mention the deer heads.

I overheard an agent the other day while doing a presale inspection telling the homeowners that she would not list a home that had "things" with eyes hanging on the wall. :D

Oh, and by the way this was on a Monday.:)

rick

Nick Ostrowski
11-17-2010, 12:11 PM
HA HA. Funny stuff Rick. At the home I inspected yesterday, the owner came to the door holding a rifle. Mmmmmmmmm........interesting. He had a couple deer mounts in his basement storage area because his agent told him they needed to come down to sell the house. Luckily he wasn't intending to use the gun on me ;).

Rick Hurst
11-17-2010, 12:17 PM
Sunday is not a day of faith for everyone. I do a lot of inspections for an Israeli client and I don't think Sunday means a whole lot to him. I also guess that the people who don't inspect on Sunday don't go to Lowe's or the grocery store on Sunday either since those heathens should not be at work either. The nerve of some people who are trying to make a living to work on Sunday. Give me a break! :rolleyes:

As a member of the Jewish community, I find your comment about your client as bing disrespectful and of your opinion and probably not of his.

Maybe you should question him about his ideas of what Sunday means to him and not be so assuming of his.

rick

Benjamin Thompson
11-17-2010, 04:17 PM
It's called being flexible and accommodating for you client which apparently you are neither. Gheeze....I can hardly see you since you are so high up on your pedestal.
What?? I can't hear you down there:D

Jerry Peck
11-17-2010, 05:38 PM
Just to put another angle on it and another perspective on it ...

I had worked myself down to doing only 1 or 2 inspections per week, not working Saturdays or Sundays, and frequently taking Fridays off as well.

I was down to probably 75-100 inspections per year my last few years before I retired, and the last year was down to around 70 as I recall.

Yes, being "down to" fewer inspections was intentional, I made more money that way. :)

Ted Menelly
11-17-2010, 05:44 PM
I am probably going to catch some flack for this but here goes.

I was born and raised a Catholic. Enough about that,

There is no disrespect to a home owner doing an inspection on Sunday. They have to accept the appointment for an inspection in their home on Sunday. If they don't want an inspection on Sunday in their home then they would not accept the time frame.

Number 2. God works on Sundays. If he does not who the heck are all those folks talking to when they are praying or singing in church or home.

Working on Sundays has nothing to do with anything. The reason Sunday is set aside for worship, the lord, faith etc etc....Is because folks use to have to slave for centuries on Sundays under the hands of their masters or conquerors. It was talked about and written into the bible for those purposes.

Most Realtors work on Sundays. Tens of millions of folks in the US work on Sundays and most of them have some kind of faith and religion.

Most of the masters work worshipers and God fairing people.....for themselves. Their slaves worked seven days a week in most cases and anytime day or night for their masters while their masters dressed up and showed their faith and worship for the Lord....driven their by their slaves while other slaves were at home cleaning the house and grounds and whipping up dinner.

The folks at The Home Depot and Lowe's and any other store or restaurant for the most part have faith and religion of some kind. Putting gas in your car on Sunday on the way to church? The traffic cop at the corner directing traffic when one is getting out of church? Ambulance picking ones sorry but up off the street when there is an accident. Almost everyone of those folks are Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Jewish, Hindu's...millions and millions of them.

Not working on Sunday has absolutely nothing to do with anything with the exception of personal choice.

Sunday being a day of faith and not working? Your personal choice. I suggest you go no where and do nothing on Sunday what so ever. Don't go and try to get some nice wood to flavor the meat on the barbie. Don't go up to the corner and pick up some milk. If you do you are dealing with folks breaking their faiths rules to serve you. Without them you would be getting nothing what so ever on Sunday.

Like I said. I was born, raised and I am Catholic. This whole day off and do nothing on Sunday....Where or what would Sunday be without all those TV folks and athletes playing all their games and those studio folks playing the movies or the folks working at the movies to sell you your ticket and popcorn.

Sunday a day of faith for ?????????? Whom????? Just a matter of convenience when one wants it to be a convenience. Going out on that boat on Sunday? Hope you don't brake down. Everyone may be doing nothing on Sunday because of their faith. You may just have to tie a rope around your neck and paddle the boat back to shore.

Excuses for convenience.

And this is just my opinion.

David Bell
11-17-2010, 05:56 PM
Well said Ted

Jack Feldmann
11-17-2010, 07:16 PM
In my 20 plus years inspecting I have worked several Sundays. It was only for a special client, under special circumstances.

My reason for not working on Sundays has to do with my choices, and not some religious fundamentals. I do attend church probably 49 weeks a year. We usually get out around noon, then go to lunch with family and/or friends. Then my wife and I spend the rest of the day together doing whatever we feel like.

For a couple years I took off Fridays too, to have some ME time and hang out with my wife.

Just because I choose not to work on Sundays does not mean I feel that no one should work on Sundays. Bible belt or not - I didn't work on Sundays when I lived in CA.

Ryan Vega
11-18-2010, 09:29 AM
New house inspection results.....EEKkk!

Had the inspection for our potential new home yesterday and the results were astounding to say the least.


Please keep in mind that this house is priced at 190k. Not located in a big city or urban area, avg home prices in area are likely around 130k if I remember the last report I read.

Issues found...
1. Plumbing - inspector recommended reputable licensed plubmer be brought in for following issues: Water pressure went to basically nothing when 2 water fixtures were operated at the same time, 1 leaking drain, 1 sump pump takes water from washing machine and runs it to the lawn, 1 sump pump was unplugged/not functional?, no hot water - water heater not operational? and is 18 years old, water supply issue limited inspection of plumbing

2. electrical - Inspector recommended reputable licensed electrican come in to resolve following issues: outlets in kitchen near sink not GFCI, ones that are GFCI in home are wired improperly/won't reset/don't work. Outlets on exterior of home are not GFCI. Inproper use of multiple extension cords to power dishwasher or stove, improper wiring of lights and smoke detctors (hanging by wires), 1 multi-tap in breaker box

3. garage door opener does not have safety stop sensor. will not pass FHA apprisal?

4. disposal does not work

5. evidence of current or past raccon or other larger critter activity in crawl space

6. microwave door loose.

7. right side of french door does not open

8. some windows don't open properly...

9. stair rails leading to basement are: too short, spindles spaced too far for proper saftey, and entire railing is loose.

THere were a few other minor things but these are the things I remember...i'm at work...so don't have the report in front of me.

We are basically requesting that plumbing and electrical are delt with by licensed reputable electrican and plumber, fix garage door, fix stair rail, fix french doors, fix disposal, i think 1 or 2 others as well....

Crazy we wouldn't have thought this many things would be found......guess thats exactly why you guys exist
My question to you guys is now who is responsbile for hiring the electrical and plumbing contractors...the seller or us???

Garry Sorrells
11-18-2010, 10:35 AM
Ryan,
Question is who will you trust? Those working for you or someone else?

By contract negotiations you can be the one to select the contractors to preform the corrections. Who pays for the corrections will also be negotiable. That is fun part of making the deal.

If the seller makes the corrections I would recommend that you have those items reinspected by contractors (of your choice) licensed in each field and have the seller pay the cost for the those inspections of the work preformed.

Negotiate a personal guarantee (if warranty doesn't cover then seller is on hook) by the seller in addition to a separate warranty.

Your state may have the builder on the hook for repairs for the first year. That does not mean that the job will be done to your satisfaction or if the builder will be in business in a year. Many states have tries to protect the buyers but do not rely on the state t protect you. Rely on your self for creating your protection.

Bob Knauff
11-18-2010, 10:36 AM
New house inspection results.....EEKkk!

Had the inspection for our potential new home yesterday and the results were astounding to say the least.

Crazy we wouldn't have thought this many things would be found......




Now, wouldn't it have been easier and, as it turns out most likely cheaper, to have just hired your own inspector and discovered these relatively common issues in the first place so you could have addressed them then? You would have avoided the last minute wrangling and costs that will now surely happen.

Unfortunately we HI's experience this all the time. Buyers or owners think we "charge to much" and in the end spend much more than our fee to correct problems or reduce the price of the house by far more than our fee just to "get the deal done". Then let's not forget the added, unnecessary emotional stress involved.

Ya can lead a horse to water....

Ryan Vega
11-18-2010, 10:39 AM
Now, wouldn't it have been easier and, as it turns out most likely cheaper, to have just hired your own inspector and discovered these relatively common issues in the first place so you could have addressed them then? You would have avoided the last minute wrangling and costs that will now surely happen.

Unfortunately we HI's experience this all the time. Buyers or owners think we "charge to much" and in the end spend much more than our fee to correct problems or reduce the price of the house by far more than our fee just to "get the deal done". Then let's not forget the added, unnecessary emotional stress involved.

Ya can lead a horse to water....


Bob if you read more carefully these inspection results were on our potential new house...not on the house we are selling. I am actually grateful of the inspection that it found these things and happy we paid the money..please read carefully if you are going to be condensending :)

John Kogel
11-18-2010, 10:57 AM
Ryan, if this new home is 20 years old or so, you didn't say, those are fairly typical items you listed. It sounds like there has been considerable neglect, but we trust the roof is good and the foundation is sound? Where is your realtor? He/she should do the negotiating with the seller's agent. Ensure that the seller does not do the electrical or plumbing repairs himself, You want a contractor to do them, and you want documents and receipts. Sometimes, all you need is a cost estimate and that amount comes off the price.

Some of those items are required now but were not required in an older home. You may have to bite the bullet on the smaller fixes, but get the expensive safety issues taken care of.

If this is a FSBO, get a notary public to help you with documents. Good luck.


If it's an older home with a sump pump in the basement, you should have the perimeter drains probed and checked by a drain company. Are the water supply pipes galvanized steel by any chance? Well water or city water?

Ryan Vega
11-18-2010, 11:10 AM
Ryan, if this new home is 20 years old or so, you didn't say, those are fairly typical items you listed. where is your realtor? He/she should do the negotiating with the seller's agent. Ensure that the seller does not do the repairs himself, you want a contractor to do them. sometimes, all you need is an estimate and that amount comes off the price.

So of those items are required now but were not required in an older home. You may have to bite the bullet on the smaller fixes, but get the expensive safety issues taken care of.

If this is a FSBO, get a notary public to help you with documents. Good luck.

John
The home was built in 1980. Our agent is writing up the list of repairs we are requesting the seller have done before we move on. The big things are the plumbing and electrical issues. Those are deal breakers. We are going to ask for a long list of stuff and see what they agree to do. This was a remodel and sell so the seller did a lot of the work themselves I imagine. I just emailed our agent to put the verbage in for the electrical and plumbing that we want to provide the individuals to do this work. I took Garry's suggestion very seriously, I want to make sure at the very least the electrical and plumbing folks are ones that we approve of not an unknown half witt hired by the seller at the cheapest price. We don't know if the seller has contractor friends that can try to pull a fast one..

The inspector said water lines are copper and it is on well water. The home just had a water proofing system installed in the basement over the summer. Reciepts provided to us by seller.

Bruce Adams
11-18-2010, 12:18 PM
Ryan
I agree with Garry on the how to get the repairs you need. I have had several clients that have called me after the closing to come look at something that was supposed to have been repaired. That they had receipts for. When I looked at were either never done or done wrong. And there has been times that the person that they had the receipt from had never been to the home. Be sure to protect yourself.
It is always better to have that person doing the repairs working for you. I have always recommended to my clients to try to negotiate to have the price of the home reduced or have money put in escrow for the repairs. Get quotes from a Master Electrician and a Master Plumber that you trust. And you have the repairs made and put the paper work for those repairs in your records for when you sell the home in the future. And when the repairs are made have a third party check those repairs.
If you can not do this and the seller makes or has the repairs made. Get that Master Electrician and Master Plumber to make sure the repairs are correct. Or pay your Inspector to reinspect the things that were negotiated to be repaired, reinspected. Make sure that you do not have to deal with these things when you sell this home. Make sure at closing that you have the paperwork for the repairs and that they are in with everything else. Keep them for future reference. Keep your Inspection report with these papers. If your inspector took pictures during the inspection ask if you could buy a copy of them. I give copies of all the pictures taken at time of inspection even those that are not used in the report to my clients by e-mail.
Bruce

Garry Sorrells
11-18-2010, 12:24 PM
Ryan,
Glad you get the idea of who does the work.

Remember you are buying a 30yr old house. Be prepares to make repairs. To many people think that nothing big will pop up in the next couple of years. Some expect that the house be perfect. Some think that the seller will eat repairs. Be pragmatic not emotional in your expectations. There are reasons that the term fixer-upper was created.

You seem on the road to an informed decision.

Bob Knauff
11-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Ryan,

"Crazy we wouldn't have thought this many things would be found......"

Everything still applies.

Scott Patterson
11-18-2010, 03:26 PM
The house in on a well and it has flow/pressure problems when more than two fixtures are operated. Sounds like you need a well contractor or a plumber who understands wells and pressure tanks. My bet is on the pressure tank being bad. Worst case is that the well is no longer producing enough water.

I'm assuming the house is also on a septic tank...... At 30 years of age that critter needs to be pumped and inspected if it has not been done...

Ryan Vega
11-19-2010, 07:35 AM
The house in on a well and it has flow/pressure problems when more than two fixtures are operated. Sounds like you need a well contractor or a plumber who understands wells and pressure tanks. My bet is on the pressure tank being bad. Worst case is that the well is no longer producing enough water.

I'm assuming the house is also on a septic tank...... At 30 years of age that critter needs to be pumped and inspected if it has not been done...

We requested the right to bring in a contractor(s) of our choice to give quotes on the water and electrical problems. If major things are found then we will talk again.

If it gets there we also plan on using some of the closing cost money, paid by seller, to get water testing and the septic tank pumped and checked out. Seller does have a reciept of septic tank inspection from July 2008. Which is ok I suppose, but we'd want an up to date inspection on it.

We'll find out today at 5pm if the seller is going to do all 11 things we asked to be completed. We asked for nearly everthing and figured we would be able to make the final call on moving forward if they choose to not fix everything we asked for, putting the power in our hands.

It was funny when talking with the agent last night she had to bring in her boss because of the number of things we were asking to be fixed. I think they wanted to scare us into asking for less so we don't "shock the seller". We basically said that a house at this price point in this area shouldn't have these issues that we didn't really care what the seller is going to think.

Then they tried using the old car sales trick
"just so you know the seller does have another offer for the house..."

I promptly replied...

"if they don't fix everything I'll personally deliever the offer /accepted to the seller/other buyer myself. we like the house, but we don't need THIS house."

Garry Sorrells
11-19-2010, 07:47 AM
Ryan,
Pressure drop on well systems are common. When you say it went to practically nothing is not real quantitative. There are things that could be wrong or in need of adjustment. Some items expensive others just the use of a screw driver. Do not expect to run two bath tubs at same time quickly. The life of living on a well is one that you will have to become accustom to. There are was to modify the system so you will obtain a constant pressure under use, check with your plumber (not cheep fix) to see if it is worth it to you.

Ryan Vega
11-19-2010, 07:59 AM
Ryan,
Pressure drop on well systems are common. When you say it went to practically nothing is not real quantitative. There are things that could be wrong or in need of adjustment. Some items expensive others just the use of a screw driver. Do not expect to run two bath tubs at same time quickly. The life of living on a well is one that you will have to become accustom to. There are was to modify the system so you will obtain a constant pressure under use, check with your plumber (not cheep fix) to see if it is worth it to you.

Take pratically nothing exactly for its face value, but to estimate the flow change, when sink 2 was turned on the pressure dropped to approx 1/5 of what it was before sink two was turned on. At which point both fixtures were basically unsuable. I lived on well water for 24 years in the past and all my family lives on well water. I've never seen a house with pressure this bad. I understand well water and city water are different, but the water supply in that house has an issue that needs corrected.

Garry Sorrells
11-19-2010, 08:09 AM
Ryan,
Bringing the broker to put pressure on you or just their way to bring you into their view of reality. Glad you seem to understand the where they are coming from. They want to have the sale go through (pay day), else they have to work longer for less money. I do not know about Indiana real estate law, but it is possible that your agent has a fiduciary duty to the seller (has to look out for the sellers interest above the buyer). Stick by your guns and take the advice from the agent/broker with a grain of salt. Just be a pain in the _ _ s buyer, make them earn their commission. Guard your interests closely. Choose your council wisely. The seller's agent will be pushing to make a deal (pay day), use that agent to your benefit. Worse case (not common) take the negations to the seller face to face. It then becomes a game like poker. Know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

Ryan Vega
11-19-2010, 08:15 AM
Garry,
Thats basically where we are at. And we told the broker and agent last night.. "we have to look out for ourselves, because no one else is going to do that."
Their response... nothing.
They are out for the themselves and their money.

Oh we're being a pain in the ass...we think that the agent is regreting now that she is dealing with us.... but oh well.

Vern Heiler
11-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Take pratically nothing exactly for its face value, but to estimate the flow change, when sink 2 was turned on the pressure dropped to approx 1/5 of what it was before sink two was turned on. At which point both fixtures were basically unsuable. I lived on well water for 24 years in the past and all my family lives on well water. I've never seen a house with pressure this bad. I understand well water and city water are different, but the water supply in that house has an issue that needs corrected.
Ryan, I didn't notice if you said it is a 2" or 6" well. If it is a 2" well you already know you will need to have a new well (6") to be happy with your water.

The pressure drop you describe could be a bad or water logged volume tank. Easy to check. Empty the tank by turning off power to the well and running water to bucket. Measure how many gallons from full tank. Should be approx. 5 gal. for a 25 gal. volume tank. (You can get exact amount from mfg. spec sheet). Then measure air pressure with tire gage at the top of the tank (presuming it's a bladder type). The pressure should be 1-2 lbs. lower than the cut-in pressure of the switch. If there is no pressure the bladder might be broken. Pump in some air, if it doesn't hold pressure its broken.

Ryan Vega
11-19-2010, 08:33 AM
Vern,
I am actually not sure if it is a 2 or 6 inch well. Is that determined by the visible well cap in the yard? In the yard at the home there is a small part of the well with a metal cap on it that protruds about 8 inches out of the ground. Would I go off that size or if not how would I determine 2 or 6?

Vern Heiler
11-19-2010, 08:42 AM
Vern,
I am actually not sure if it is a 2 or 6 inch well. Is that determined by the visible well cap in the yard? In the yard at the home there is a small part of the well with a metal cap on it that protruds about 8 inches out of the ground. Would I go off that size or if not how would I determine 2 or 6?
Yes, thats the casing. If it is 6" there should be a metal tag on the side of it with the depth of the well, static water level (when drilled), depth of casing, and gallons per minute. If the tag is not there you should be able to call the county and get the info from them. (Should be recorded)

Ryan Vega
11-19-2010, 08:47 AM
Yes, thats the casing. If it is 6" there should be a metal tag on the side of it with the depth of the well, static water level (when drilled), depth of casing, and gallons per minute. If the tag is not there you should be able to call the county and get the info from them. (Should be recorded)


Vern,
Thanks for that info...could prove to be very useful!
If I remember correctly the casing that was protruding the ground was not 2 inches..it was larger than that...so i'd guess its 6...but i realy don't know.
Any ideas as to what branch of the county offices I might call..or at least what might be a good first try for that info?

Vern Heiler
11-19-2010, 08:51 AM
Vern,
Thanks for that info...could prove to be very useful!
If I remember correctly the casing that was protruding the ground was not 2 inches..it was larger than that...so i'd guess its 6...but i realy don't know.
Any ideas as to what branch of the county offices I might call..or at least what might be a good first try for that info?
Try "Environmental Health" or ask for department that gives well and septic permits.