Conductor corrosion and chinese drywall

[Roger Frazee]

I had no idea that chinese drywall could have corrosion effects on copper conductors both bare and insulated. The OCT.edition of ECM magazine had this photo of copper sulfide build up as a result of chinese drywall in the home.... I'm sure inspectors in Florida and the southern tier of states are familiar but thought a photo of a panel showing this may be of benefit to the members here.
http://ecmweb.com/construction/010ecmCDpic1.jpg

[Paul Kondzich]

Yep thats why the electrical wire needs replaced. Usually in severe cases there is no copper color left.

[Jerry Peck]

Roger,

There are some good photos on this Florida Department of Health web site: Copper Corrosion Case Defition Possibly Associated with Imported Drywall (http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environment/community/indoor-air/casedefinition.html)

[Roger Frazee]

Roger,

There are some good photos on this Florida Department of Health web site: Copper Corrosion Case Defition Possibly Associated with Imported Drywall (http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environment/community/indoor-air/casedefinition.html)

Jerry

Thank you for the link ... for me that was quite educational.

You know we hear about that drywall here in Kansas but I've never heard of any of it being used in construction around here. Is it limited to the hurricane impacted states ?

[Jerry Peck]

Is it limited to the hurricane impacted states ?

In a way ... but not entirely.

It was mainly limited to high construction volume areas, and recovery from the 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons did play a large part in the locations, but ... the beginning of the Chinese drywall use started around 2000 with the building boom in the building boom areas, then you add in the hurricanes (which caused many of those areas to have a rebuilding boom) and then all the rebuilding going on after Katrina, and not last and certainly not least of the causes was the rapidly expanding growth and building boom in China itself ... it all worked as a 'perfect storm' to reduce available supplies through the normal channels and cause many suppliers to seek supplies from elsewhere - mostly meaning from China.

An example of a very necessary building material which was also in short supply (in addition to gypsum and gypsum board) was ... concrete. So much concrete is/was being used in China that its availability here dropped and a shortage of sorts happened.

Here is another example of what the shortage of gypsum board did for construction (something most people do not even think about, but those specifying it, installing it, and inspecting for it did have to make choices on): STC ratings for condo. The STC (Sound Transmission Class) is entirely proprietary materials based. Each manufacturer will have its own STC rated designs, and those STC rated designs are *only* applicable when that proprietary material is used on *both sides* of the wall.

That means that when gypsum board became scarce, in order to achieve the required STC rating for any given wall on any given floor, the *entire floor* (is all but rare cases) had to use one brand of gypsum board. The only way to substitute another brand of gypsum board would be on another floor, and that entire floor would need to be that one brand.

There were many high-rises I was inspecting where the above applied and where the suppliers had to be able to supply enough for an entire floor or not supply any at all. And where the drywall company had to be very careful not to make substitutions for repairs or to finish out a unit when they came up short.

[Roger Frazee]

Ok that makes sense .. now my question is what is the course of action if you discover chinese drywall was used in an entire building or single/multi family dwelling ??

I just browsed some Florida real estate with chinese drywall on the internet that appear to be vacated ? Is it hazardous to people ? Don't mean to sound like the town dummy.

[Jerry Peck]

my question is what is the course of action if you discover chinese drywall was used in an entire building or single/multi family dwelling ??

The only course of action suitable to most, and the only sustainable course of action to date: gut the house of all drywall, all wiring, all copper piping, check the truss plates and tie-downs very well (may cause a future problem - not sure about that), and, if metal framing was used for the interior wall framing - that may also need to be removed.


I just browsed some Florida real estate with chinese drywall on the internet that appear to be vacated ? Is it hazardous to people ?

Some say it is hazardous to people, some say it is not, I have had clients get very ill 'because of' the Chinese drywall. Yes, these people were older people, but they were also in good health and had documented good health records, then they moved into a house with the Chinese drywall and their health deteriorated (all due to respiratory illnesses, which is supposedly the major health culprit with the Chinese drywall).

Typically, the major developers agree to pay for gutting the house and rebuilding it.

There are two ways to address this issue (well, there are more than two ways, but these are the two most frequent choices): 1) treat the drywall as a defective product; 2) treat it as a health hazard.

1) above is easy to prove - the drywall is defective, therefore replace it and everything it has damaged. That IS why the builders carry insurance.

2) is quite difficult to prove - there could be other causes for the sudden deterioration in health (is what the defense attorneys say).

In my opinion, if you do 1) above, then you are out of the environment while the house is being gutted and rebuilt, then back in with a new environment - problems corrected, and if that was a cause of 2) above, then the health will also more than likely slowly return back to 'normal' of before being in the environment.

But that is just my opinion.

[Roger Frazee]

Jerry

Thanks for the detailed replies. I think I have satisfied my need for information on the chinese drywall. I wonder if they use the same drywall in construction of homes and commercial property in their homeland.....:eek:

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Roger,

Not so much, our own investigators during tour in China had a hard time finding in the local construction marketplace - a few samples were acquired when not available during the "tours" - comments on blogs made by our own government employees on the www - esp. as how difficult was to acquire in the marketplace in China. Chinese prison and court system not anything like here, less than pleasant - and penalties severe.

You might find the following "informative" to a degree - esp. reviewing the various monthly reports.

(clickable link:) U.S. CPSC: Drywall Information Center (http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/index.html) (Drywall Information Center at cpsc.gov)

April 2010 Press release from CPSC.gov (with many embedded links to CDC, CPSC, FTC, etc.)This is a clickable link: HUD and CPSC Issue Guidance on Repairing Homes With Problem Drywall (http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/hud10068.html)

We've had a few threads on the subject before, esp. conductor corrosion, fastener corrosion, etc.

HTH,

H.G.

[Roger Frazee]

Roger,

Not so much, our own investigators during tour in China had a hard time finding in the local construction marketplace - a few samples were acquired when not available during the "tours" - comments on blogs made by our own government employees on the www - esp. as how difficult was to acquire in the marketplace in China. Chinese prison and court system not anything like here, less than pleasant - and penalties severe.

You might find the following "informative" to a degree - esp. reviewing the various monthly reports.

(clickable link:) U.S. CPSC: Drywall Information Center (http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/index.html) (Drywall Information Center at cpsc.gov)

April 2010 Press release from CPSC.gov (with many embedded links to CDC, CPSC, FTC, etc.)This is a clickable link: HUD and CPSC Issue Guidance on Repairing Homes With Problem Drywall (http://www.cpsc.gov/info/drywall/hud10068.html)

We've had a few threads on the subject before, esp. conductor corrosion, fastener corrosion, etc.

HTH,

H.G.

Thanks HG I'll review those posted links and do a search of the forums for more info. I know this is old news but it's new for me so I enjoy learning the details.