View Full Version : Whoopsie

Nick Ostrowski
07-25-2007, 04:33 AM
Looks like the chimpanzees are on the loose again. I saw this fine craftsmanship at a 2 year old townhome yesterday.

Jerry Peck
07-25-2007, 05:08 AM
At least they used read colored tape to show you where to look. :)

07-25-2007, 05:18 AM

The girls gave me the logic behind this.

Manly guys have 5 color choices.
Black, white, red, blue, and yellow.
Anything else is indescribable.
If the inspector can't describe the color he can't write it up.

Noticed they ran out before you got there.

Or is that one of those new "fresh attic air" exhausting flues?

07-25-2007, 04:52 PM
Wow, wonder how long that elbow has been busted?

Great catch Nick.

Nick Ostrowski
07-25-2007, 05:32 PM
I told the buyer after seeing the flue pipe shenanigans in the furnace utility closet that I was expecting to see some issues with the installation in the attic as well. I'm sure the lack of any kind of support strapping in the attic contributed to the disconnected B-vent.

Bruce Breedlove
07-25-2007, 10:43 PM
Better to kill the deal than to kill the client.

Nick Ostrowski
08-01-2007, 01:48 PM
Have any of you seen this read tape used in new construction in firestopping applications? This is the first time I have ever seen it and the builder is saying the tape is industry standard. My assertion is that if this is industry standard, then somebody needs to change the standards to something that is not going to fail and loose adhesion in 2-3 years time like in this house. In short, the builder is saying the tape needs to just be put back in place. I say it is just going to fail again.

John Arnold
08-01-2007, 02:01 PM
Self-Adhesive Fire Tape (http://www.eztapingsystem.com/fire_tape.htm)

Nick - I just did a quick google search - haven't even read it yet.

Nick Ostrowski
08-01-2007, 03:13 PM
Thanks John. It looks like it is considered acceptable for walls but the stuff should at least stay in place. I do see it is not rated for ceilings.

I'll pass this info along to my client.

Frank Kunselman
08-02-2007, 05:53 AM
Don't forget to look at the ICC-ESS ESR-1231 report on this product.

Under 'Conditions of Use: "The tape is applied to tightly butted joints of non-loadbearing one-hour fire resistive assemblies as described in section 4.2."

Sect 4.2 requires type W drywall screws @ 8"oc on the vertical edge, all joints blocked and fasteners treated with approved tape or joint compound.

Wasn't that a 2-HR wall? Also, the joints were not tightly butted from what I saw in the pics. If both are true, then the installation of the tape does not comply with the ESR report requirements and would be disapproved and would be required to be redone to comply with the listed UL assembly on the plans (townhomes without approved plans????).

Nick Ostrowski
08-02-2007, 06:48 AM
I saw a few violations of the manufacturer's installation instructions as well Frank. Like you mentioned, those butt joints are not tight. And, the product is not supposed to be installed on ceilings or overlapped. As for the peeling tape, it could be a few other factors preventing proper adhesion (tape applied in cold conditions, tape stored in a cold environment, dust and dirt on walls, large voids between drywall sections reducing surface area tape has to contact).

Jerry Peck
08-02-2007, 07:14 AM
Mental blank here - is that blue board rated as Type X? It's for plaster and I've forgotten if it is also equal to Type X.

I know you used to be able to get blueboard either way, can't remember if they still make blueboard as regular drywall and Type X, or, if all of it is now Type X rated anyway. For manufacturing/stocking/distribution reasons, they are reducing some of the choices to the more applicable options. Type X can be used for non-Type X installations, so why not make it all Type X with the various papers needed for specific applications. Simply making it all the same should lead to some cost savings, maybe enough to offset the higher other costs involved.

Frank Kunselman
08-02-2007, 11:08 AM

My computer HD crashed right after my post. Didn't have time to review the pics again, but you're right about not to be used on ceilings...nor any mention in the ESR-1321 about any approval for sealing penetrations in a rated assembly.


Just finalled a project where the Gold-Bond purple board was used in the locker room side of a rated assembly and it was type X.

So, Nick, what was your final report on this thing...personally I think the Trunk Monkey would have done a better job.

Jerry Peck
08-02-2007, 11:32 AM
Just finalled a project where the Gold-Bond purple board was used in the locker room side of a rated assembly and it was type X.

But is it still available as regular gypsum board, or is all it now Type X rated?

I think I remember that it is now all fire resistance rated (except regular gypsum board), just not sure.

Sure would make it easier to stock one type, purchase one type, and install one type, and not have to worry about which type was stocked, purchased or installed where it should have been installed.

If they have not already done that, I think the major manufacturers are headed that way (except for regular gypsum board) ... I think ... maybe ... :confused:

Nick Ostrowski
08-02-2007, 03:23 PM
Frank, my report on the tape applications stated improper, unprofessional, and failing application of the tape in firestopping areas as well as improper clearances to combustibles in the furnace room. I had a couple conversations with the seller of the property today and he said the builders insist the tape meets code. He got a little huffy with me but calmed down. I e-mailed him a link to the E-Z Fire Tape site so he could read the installation instructions himself and see what the builders did wrong and take it up with them. My client wants the situation fixed and I told the seller it may take a general contractor and an HVAC pro working in conjunction in the furnace room to get everything right and not impede on the other's work.

I'm sure the builder didn't read the instructions for the tape and just started slapping it up. Any mammal could see the level of the work here was child-like.

Jerry Peck
08-02-2007, 05:33 PM
Any mammal could see the level of the work here was child-like.

There you go ... that's the problem. :D

The builder is a reptile.

Michael Thomas
08-02-2007, 05:44 PM
I can guess what's likely NOT done right when using this tape:

4.1 General:

"The tape is applied directly to vertical or horizontal joints of
gypsum wallboard panels. The tape must be wiped down with
a 3-inch (72 mm) plastic blade provided by the manufacturer
or with an equivalent instrument to apply sufficient pressure
to establish full contact between the tape and drywall."

4.2 One-hour Non load-bearing Fire-resistance-rated

The construction consists of minimum 0.0185-inch-thick (0.46
mm), 35/8-inch-deep (92 mm) steel studs and tracks or 2-by-4
wood studs faced on both sides with 5/8-inch-thick (15.9 mm),
Type X gypsum wallboard. Studs are spaced a maximum of
24 inches (610 mm) on center. The wallboard is erected
vertically or horizontally and attached to studs and tracks with
11/2-inch-long (38 mm), Type S drywall screws for steel studs,
or Type W drywall screws for wood studs, spaced 8 inches
(203 mm) on center on vertical edges and 12 inches (305
mm) on center on top and bottom edges and in the field. The
wallboard panels must be tightly butted, with all joints
blocked. Joints must be centered on the stud face and
staggered one stud on opposite faces of the assembly. The
Fire Tape wallboard tape is applied to the wallboard joints in
accordance with Section 4.1. Fasteners shall be treated with
approved joint tape or joint compound.

http://www.eztapingsystem.com/pdf/ESR-1231-3-07.pdf (http://www.eztapingsystem.com/pdf/ESR-1231-3-07.pdfAround)

In my area not one rocker in 20 speaks English it's Spanish or Polish), or would bother to read or follow those instructions if they did.

Michael Thomas
08-02-2007, 05:59 PM
My computer HD crashed right after my post.


I can't speak highly enough of the free Foldershare software - if you have a high speed Internet connection you can mirror gigabytes of data - up to 10,000 files of any size - to any other Widows PC with the same and FS will keep everything in sync for you.

I mirror between 2PC s in the office, my laptop at home, and a PC at the office of a business associate in another city. (He mirrors his critical data to the two PCs in my office) - takes about 5 min to set up o each PC.

If you use a program like Homegauge, which lets you install the SW to multiple machines, you just work on whatever PC is handy - at home, in the office, on or the laptop at the coffee shop if they have WiFi - saving your templet and report every few minutes.

If one PC goes down, you just can just keep working on another - all you have lost is the input since your last save.

Frank Kunselman
08-03-2007, 12:43 PM
Michael, I'm not so freaked out now...turned out to be the monitor (whew!).

Had all my important data saved...I guess I even ned to start saving my 'favorites' and 'links' to my flash drive.

Anyway, from the clips visible in the pics, I would say 2-hr assembly and not two separate 1-hr walls (the aluminum clips are designed to melt away leaving the wall intact when the unit collapses - should be clips in the other unit also). If so, the tape is not approved for use on that assembly PERIOD. The ESR-1321 report only approved its use on a 1-hr assembly.

Jerry, Don't know the answer to that. I only pay close attention when rated assemblies. Incidentally, the "Perma-Base" cement board for wet areas has it's own UL Assembly listing. They used it too, and I had to require a copy in order to approve it's installation.

Chat more next week guys. Good luck Nick, just make sure the builder also sees the ESR-1321 report (http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-1231.pdf)

Frank Kunselman
08-03-2007, 12:44 PM
Just saw from the link that in my text message I inverted the numbers...the link is the correct report