Light Bulb Madness

[Nick Ostrowski]

I wonder how many of these the big orange is selling.

[Dan Harris]

This reminds me of an ad from my electic company.
Install sunscreens on my windows, I will save $40. per year.,.
Cost for the sun screens apx. $800- 1000..

Replace all my light bulbs with leds and I will save $65.00 per year..
Cost to replace them $500-600. Cost to dispose of ???????

[Ted Menelly]

This reminds me of an ad from my electic company.
Install sunscreens on my windows, I will save $40. per year.,.
Cost for the sun screens apx. $800- 1000..

Replace all my light bulbs with leds and I will save $65.00 per year..
Cost to replace them $500-600. Cost to dispose of ???????


Ohhh, but who cares about the cost.....you must think green. That is how all these new energy ideas from companies pushing the cheap to make crap for lots of money make their fortune and try to make all the tree huggers make you feel bad for not spending all that money.

Cost of radiant barrier....2,500 for a not so large home. Live in the home 5 to 7 years after you buy the home and you might make your money back before you move in heat and AC savings (you might make out on the deal) but just make out on the deal and reap a benefit before you move by a year. Now if you planted yourself and lived there for 20 years then you would make out by a huge amount. In the mean time all you are doing is making someone else money but isn't that what this is all about....giving what you have to someone else:confused:

[Dan Harris]

Ohhh, but who cares about the cost.....you must think green.
:

I'll leave their kind of thinking green to the youngins.
They keep saying SS is going broke, even after I paid a couple hundred thousand plus into it over the past 40 plus yrs.
I'm thinking green, green in MY pocket. :)

[Ted Menelly]

I'll leave their kind of thinking green to the youngins.
They keep saying SS is going broke, even after I paid a couple hundred thousand plus into it over the past 40 plus yrs.
I'm thinking green, green in MY pocket. :)

I hate to tell you this but there is no SS. As a quote from one of our fine Congressman. "There is no money in the bank waiting to pay anyone anything. That is not how the Government works." In other words all that money you paid into SS has already bean spent on something else. If we do go bust there is no trust fund waiting to pay you SS. You simply won't get any.

Now wouldn't you love to be able to work like that. Folks give you money all their lives and then in the end tell them "Sorry folks but i already spent your money and no one is paying into the fund anymore so you cannot have any. Further more our credit is so bad we cannot even borrow anymore money from China or Japan or India."

Dan...............................Your money has already been given to someone else. After all "That is how our government works."

[Nick Ostrowski]

Damn Ted, you're bringin' me down. I just wanted to show everybody how expensive lightbulbs are.

Please excuse me everybody. I'm going to put my head in the oven now. Oh............I have an electric oven. Never mind.

[Rick Hurst]

This was an unusual light fixture that I found yesterday in a condo. Thought it was interesting.

rick

[Jim Robinson]

About seven years ago I bought some CFL bulbs for my office. They had a five year guarantee. I actually saved my receipt and the cardboard from the packaging. When one blew out about three years later, I took the receipt and packaging into Home Depot. Of course, they no longer stocked that bulb, so I would have to contact the manufacturer. So much for the five year guarantee.

[Bruce Breedlove]

Now wouldn't you love to be able to work like that. Folks give you money all their lives and then in the end tell them "Sorry folks but i already spent your money and no one is paying into the fund anymore so you cannot have any. Further more our credit is so bad we cannot even borrow anymore money from China or Japan or India."

Dan...............................Your money has already been given to someone else. After all "That is how our government works."

It is called a Ponzi scheme - you pay early investors with money collected from later investors. Eventually the scheme will collapse when there are not enough new investors. Bernie Madoff is sitting in prison for running a Ponzi scheme that was a tiny, tiny fraction the size of the Ponzi schemes currently being run by the US Government.

[Vern Heiler]

It is called a Ponzi scheme - you pay early investors with money collected from later investors. Eventually the scheme will collapse when there are not enough new investors. Bernie Madoff is sitting in prison for running a Ponzi scheme that was a tiny, tiny fraction the size of the Ponzi schemes currently being run by the US Government.
But Bernie's clients thought they were going to get something back for there money:)

[Michael Thomas]

SS is actually an inter-generational transfer program, it ultimate depends on contributions from younger workers in a presumably more productive economy to support older retirees.

The thing I find most amusing about this is that most of the people I've met who like to carry on about the "Social Security Ponzi Scheme" would not have a pot to piss in in retirement without SS.

It's a wired sort of masochism, I guess.

[Ted Menelly]

SS is actually an inter-generational transfer program, it ultimate depends on contributions from younger workers in a presumably more productive economy to support older retirees.

The thing I find most amusing about this is that most of the people I've met who like to carry on about the "Social Security Ponzi Scheme" would not have a pot to piss in in retirement without SS.

It's a wired sort of masochism, I guess.

Ahh, but Michael. You me and everyone else could lose, for what ever reason, everything tomorrow. Not nice to go down on folks that may not have anything. You have absolutely no idea of those circumstances. They could have been taken by a Ponzi Scheme.

What is even more amusing is those that think they have nothing to worry about because they are all set :confused: They could lose everything tomorrow (figuratively speaking....over a small amount of time). Those folks are the ones that end up staring at a wall with crap in their pants and drool running out of the corner of their mouth thinking over and over and over again for eternity "what happened, I had it made."

[John Lindley-Howard]

I wonder how many of these the big orange is selling.
I've wondered that too...

[Bronson Beisel]

On a recent This Old House show, they were taking the tour of the final product, and in the kitchen they had "old fashioned" incandescent light bulbs. When the host asked why not LED, they noted the cost. The regular bulbs cost less than a buck. The LEDs costs $75 or more in some cases and don't give off the same amount of light.

Like others on this board, I save my CFL receipts. I but my CFLs from Costco, and they stock FEIT bulbs, which are not very reliable. About twice a year, I return a box of dead bulbs and get my money back. As I install a bulb, I write the date on the base in a sharpie, and when it dies, I write the date. So I know that not one of them has lasted over two years. Most of them die within a year. The old halogens I had were brighter, cost less, and lasted longer.

Costco has NEVER given me any grief about returning them, but then again, that's their policy.

In our pantry, we have some 100 watt 130 volt incandescent floods our electrician gave us that are going on 5 years old now and still going strong.

When LEDs can give off the equivalent of a 100 watt bulb for double the price, then I'll buy them.

[Dan Harris]

I wonder how many of these the big orange is selling.

Thats an good question.. After thinking about it, on my new home inspections I see apx 50% with them. Most of the customers that have them are under 40. and many of them are from another country.
These homes take another 2-3 min per inspection waiting for the light to light up :)

I see a lot of the solor tube sky lites on homes owned by the over 50 customer. These homes take 5 min longer to search for a lite switch to shut the light off. :)

Odd thing.. I have never seen any of these bulbs in a repo./ goverment owned home , I wonder why? :D

[Joel Mizrahi]

How much were the CFL's when they first arrived on the shelves?, how much were Edison's first incandescents?, how much was a high powered laptop 5+ years ago? Nick, those bulbs are the future, not CFL and incandescent. Lets revisit the price point in 5 years and see how much shelf space they have.

BTW- GE closed their last US incandescent light bulb factory in 9/2010.

[Wayne Carlisle]

Incandescents are being done away with. The energy code requires that 50% of the bulbs in new homes be florescent or other energy efficient bulbs.

[Glenn R Cummings]

I think I will like these for the Hard-to_Reach locations.

I'll wait for the price to drop.
It's high now because it's "New" and carries the new price to ride the new wave with out more competition.

I have avoided the CFL's... because I don't like being forced to use "green" products that cost more and aren't really green.

In the northwest, the 'wasted' heat of an indoor incandescent is not wasted, we use need that heat. It provides great localized on-demand heating if you use enough. (i.e. mornings in the bathroom)

I understand a bill has been formed to 'ban' the ban on incandescents.

[Ted Menelly]

Absolute absurd prices on those bulbs. Florescent bulbs I cannot stand thew vast majority of them. I don't like the light from them.

The bulbs that Nick is showing do not have the greatest lighting either.

The reason I turn a light on is to see. I do not want some dim light or funky bright or make believe light unless my light is on a dimmer switch so I can turn it down when I feel like it.

As far as those lights becoming the future. I am so sick of hearing that we absolutely must accept everything new and different in life with our ever changing. Those prices will come down but if they were interested in selling a lot of those bulbs and lowering energy use they would cut the price by 80% and sell millions. As it stands right now they will sell some and maybe many but not in the amounts that will make a serious difference.

If they were serious about solar ever taking off instead of making fortunes immediately off of them the price would drop in a serious way and every roof top would have some form of solar collector on them.

Everyone that puts out any money lately is in the same mind set that got us into this way over inflated life style we live in. "We must make our fortunes now. Not 10 years from now or build something for our kids but right now....we want it all.....now"

Those bulbs mass produced would be 5 bucks, if that. Not $54.00. How they make them right now they could be sold for a small fraction of what they are and they could make a profit.

[Robert Hronek]

On a recent Ask This Old House they helped an empty nest couple replace 2 waters with a solar water hear. Cost $10,000 after our tax money $3000 to the homeowners. Threw out 2 good water heaters. I wonder if they have enough hot water when they have guests.

They is a lot we can do to save energy but I suscribe to the low hanging fruit theory.

[Ted Menelly]

On a recent Ask This Old House they helped an empty nest couple replace 2 waters with a solar water hear. Cost $10,000 after our tax money $3000 to the homeowners. Threw out 2 good water heaters. I wonder if they have enough hot water when they have guests.

They is a lot we can do to save energy but I subscribe to the low hanging fruit theory.

Oh.....but its green.....green out of their pocket and into someone elses pocket.

[Nick Ostrowski]

I'm all for the green initiative and doing things that are good for the environment. But a price point of $54 for a new technology LED lightbulb is not going to win me over. That price is friggin' crazy. Maybe the price will get more reasonable in 5 years. But even if it does, I don't care if the packaging says it will last for 15 years. The light these things cast sucks. Soft-swirl style flourescent bulbs do have a place in my house........the basement. In living areas, I like to see and not have lighting that looks like a bulb is out somewhere in the room.

Green initiatives are nice but won't ever really catch on until prices of current systems and services which are considered environmentally unfriendly make switching worthwhile ($$$) and/or the quality/output from the green initiative product is at least equal to or exceeds what we are used to.

[Nick Ostrowski]

On a recent Ask This Old House they helped an empty nest couple replace 2 waters with a solar water hear. Cost $10,000 after our tax money $3000 to the homeowners. Threw out 2 good water heaters. I wonder if they have enough hot water when they have guests.

They is a lot we can do to save energy but I suscribe to the low hanging fruit theory.

The future maintenance/replacement costs that loom for this demographic of the population is nuts. The 55 and older communities are all over the place around here. These houses aren't small either. Most are 2,000 - 2,500 interior sq. ft. And in some of them the HVAC system has dual zones with high efficiency furnaces. Between furnaces and AC systems, you're looking at $15,000 in replacement costs (probably more) when these systems (heat and AC) have to be replaced. Seems great now when it's all new and working fine. But I wonder how well these houses will sell in 20-30 years when the HVAC systems and roofs approach replacement. These buyers are retired and want to get away from upkeep and expense.

[Rich Goeken]

About seven years ago I bought some CFL bulbs for my office. They had a five year guarantee. I actually saved my receipt and the cardboard from the packaging. When one blew out about three years later, I took the receipt and packaging into Home Depot. Of course, they no longer stocked that bulb, so I would have to contact the manufacturer. So much for the five year guarantee.

Jim,

I take a Sharpie and put the install date on the bulb. If it doesn't last "7 Years" I call them and ask for a replacement. Had to do that twice so far. However, I have noticed that some of the manufacturers have changed the labeling so they don't say "Lasts 7 Years". Now it's "Save XX". Marked a heat lamp the same way. It went. Figured that I only used 1/4 of the claimed life. Went to big Orange and explained my reasoning------they gave me a new one.

[John Kogel]

Jim,

I take a Sharpie and put the install date on the bulb. If it doesn't last "7 Years" I call them and ask for a replacement. Had to do that twice so far. However, I have noticed that some of the manufacturers have changed the labeling so they don't say "Lasts 7 Years". Now it's "Save XX". Marked a heat lamp the same way. It went. Figured that I only used 1/4 of the claimed life. Went to big Orange and explained my reasoning------they gave me a new one.You're the guy they warn people about at the training sessions - "Whatever, just get him out of the store". :D

[Bronson Beisel]

It's folks like Rich and me who enforce these satisfaction guarantees! I know Costco and Homers probably realize they can say "return it whenever" and MOST folks would NEVER think of it. So for the few who do, it's an easy write off.

My wife was shocked when I returned a partial gallon of soy milk to Kroger. We got it for the kids to try it, and they HATED it. But Kroger has a satisfaction guarantee, and the lady at customer service didn't bat an eye and even said, "whenever that happens, bring it back. We want you to be happy with everything you purchase from us. Feel free to buy it, try it, and return it if you don't like it." Now, they can't, by law, do that for alcohol, and I wouldn't try it with a Christmas ham. But it's nice to know a company stands behind the products. And I figure the more light bulbs I return to Costco, the more incentive they have to pressure their supplier into improving the product.

But then again, I might just be dreaming.

[Jim Port]

Some of the bulbs are specifying the conditions in which the lifespan is determined. Like used 4 hours per day for 5 years. If you leave the light on for 12 hours a day in the winter that would be 3 days of life every day. They also probably have so many switching cycles specified. Frequent switing will shorten the lifespan also.

It is all marketing spin. You read what the big print says and think it means one thing and it really means something else.

[Glenn R Cummings]

I'm all for the green initiative and doing things that are good for the environment. .

Unfortunaltely, Green and Good don't necessarily go to gether.

Let's watch the coal fired plants charge those electric vehicles using all those batteries from the new lithium mines using petrolium to ship it from SouAmer to Asia to US.

Now, I don't have a proplem with Incandecent lights or gas vehicles. I like them.

Should work out over time, tho as we move onto other technologies.

[Domenico Perrella]

I wouldn't buy those LED lamps at those prices and I've certainly had bad experiences with some CFLs (never buy a dimmable CFL), but I've also had good experiences.

I bought a very early CFL for use in a stairway in an apartment building I used to live in. I got tired of tripping on the stairs waiting for the manager to replace the bulb. That bulb was on 24x7 for about 7 years before I moved out and was still going strong. As for the color, CFLs will never have as even a distribution of colors as an incandescent bulb does, but you can get an overall hue that is much closer to natural light than the very yellowish light most incandescent bulbs give off.

The thing I've learned is that yellow light can be pretty dim without looking weird, but bluer light needs to be much brighter to look good. If you pile on several CFLs that are closer to daylight color, you get a result that I find very pleasing. My workbench in my garage looks like it has a skylight over it and that's just the way I like it. I don't save as much power as claimed, but I get a much more natural looking and brighter light and still save a little power. A 100-watt incandescent can be replaced with maybe 3 20-watt CFLs at around 3500-4000K color temperature and it will look good, but if you go for full daylight color at around 6000-6500K you might want one or two more bulbs.

[Dan Harris]

South Carolina is showing us that they are very clever and know how to think outside of the box. Six Republican and one Democratic lawmakers from the Palmetto State have introduced legislation that would get around federal law and bring back the incandescent light bulb through in-state only sales.

Here’s how the bill works….

The South Carolina Incandescent Light Bulb Freedom Act would require the bulb to be manufactured and sold within the state, thereby evading Commerce Clause arguments used to force South Carolina to comply with a federal regulation that raises the energy efficient minimums on light bulbs. While the new rules, to go in effect next year, don’t ban incandescents outright, the energy requirements would exclude incandescents and lead to wider use of LEDs (light-emitting diode) or CFLs (compact flourescent lamp).

“An incandescent light bulb that is manufactured commercially or privately in this state from basic materials that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported from another state and is offered for sale and sold for use only within the borders of this state is deemed to be in the stream of intrastate commerce, rather than interstate commerce, and is not subject to federal law or federal regulation,” reads the legislation introduced last Wednesday in the General Assembly.

[Domenico Perrella]

South Carolina is showing us that they are very clever and know how to think outside of the box. Six Republican and one Democratic lawmakers from the Palmetto State have introduced legislation that would get around federal law and bring back the incandescent light bulb through in-state only sales.

Here’s how the bill works….

The South Carolina Incandescent Light Bulb Freedom Act would require the bulb to be manufactured and sold within the state, thereby evading Commerce Clause arguments used to force South Carolina to comply with a federal regulation that raises the energy efficient minimums on light bulbs. While the new rules, to go in effect next year, don’t ban incandescents outright, the energy requirements would exclude incandescents and lead to wider use of LEDs (light-emitting diode) or CFLs (compact flourescent lamp).

“An incandescent light bulb that is manufactured commercially or privately in this state from basic materials that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported from another state and is offered for sale and sold for use only within the borders of this state is deemed to be in the stream of intrastate commerce, rather than interstate commerce, and is not subject to federal law or federal regulation,” reads the legislation introduced last Wednesday in the General Assembly.

Dan,

That's pretty funny, but if it actually passes, I don't think it will work.

Congress has used the interstate commerce clause to make it a federal crime for a person to grow and smoke marijuana in their own home without it ever leaving this house. So, while I haven't researched the issue, I don't think the courts would have much trouble finding that incandescent lightbulbs manufactured and used in South Carolina were subject to regulation by Congress under the commerce clause. By using power distributed through the interstate grid, those lightbulbs would actually have a fairly direct impact on interstate commerce, unlike the homegrown marijuana that Congress has also banned.

[Rick Cantrell]

Psst
Hey Buddy, ya needa light
I got some really HOT 100 Watt babies, if your interested
But you better getem now, cause they wont las long.

[Dan Harris]

Psst
Hey Buddy, ya needa light
I got some really HOT 100 Watt babies, if your interested
But you better getem now, cause they wont las long.

I use 8-10 bulbs a year.. I figure the max time that I'll care if a light bulb works or not is apx. 20 yrs. I'll take 200.. :D

[Benjamin Thompson]

Trouble with those bulbs is they cost you more than you think because you can't tell if they are on of off.

BUT, if they cost $55 and save you $90, how can you go wrong??

Last year I replaced all the windows in my house with those expensive double-pane energy efficient kind, but this week I got a call from the contractor, complaining his work had been completed a year ago and I had yet to pay for them. Boy oh boy, did we go around and around Just because I'm a blonde does not mean I'm automatically stupid.

So, I proceeded to tell him just what his fast-talking sales guy had told me last year - namely, that in one year, the windows would pay for themselves.... There was silence on the other end of the line, so I just hung up. I have not heard anything back.

[Jerry Peck]

I take a Sharpie and put the install date on the bulb. If it doesn't last "7 Years" I call them and ask for a replacement. Had to do that twice so far.

I did that on some halogen lamps for a bathroom fixture we used to have, the lamps were labeled as guaranteed for 5 years, after taking them back on a regular basis (each lamp would only last about 6-9 months, and there were 6 lamps, so I was going back regularly, they (the Big Box store) said writing the date on them would not suffice, that I had to bring in the dated sales receipt ... so I told them no problem, I would bring in a sales receipt where I paid for a new lamp and bring them an old lamp which was bad ... they said 'Huh?" and scratched their head trying to figure that one out. :)

So I did buy a new lamp, and brought the old lamp back with the new dated sales receipt showing that I just bought that lamp the day before, and, darn it, that lamp must have been defective ... so I need a replacement - and got it. :cool:

[Glenn R Cummings]

So, I proceeded to tell him just what his fast-talking sales guy had told me last year - namely, that in one year, the windows would pay for themselves.... There was silence on the other end of the line, so I just hung up. I have not heard anything back.


Is this as funny as I think it is ?

[Bruce Allen]

This is from the 2009 International Energy Conservation Code:
404.1 Lighting equipment (Prescriptive). A minimum of 50 percent of the lamps in permanently installed lighting fixtures shall be high-efficacy lamps.

HIGH-EFFICACY LAMPS. Compact fluorescent lamps, T-8 or smaller diameter linear fluorescent lamps, or lamps with a minimum efficacy of:
1. 60 lumens per watt for lamps over 40 watts,
2. 50 lumens per watt for lamps over 15 watts to 40 watts,
and
3. 40 lumens per watt for lamps 15 watts or less.

In lighting design, "efficacy" refers to the amount of light (luminous flux) produced by a lamp (a light bulb or other light source), usually measured in lumens, as a ratio of the amount of power consumed to produce it, usually measured in watts. This is not to be confused with efficiency which is always a dimensionless ratio of output divided by input which for lighting relates to the watts of visible power as a fraction of the power consumed in watts. The visible power can be approximated by the area under the Planck curve between 300 nm and 700 nm for a blackbody at the temperature of the filament as a ratio of the total power under the blackbody curve. Efficiency values for light from a heat source are typically less than two percent.


YES - This is funny:
So, I proceeded to tell him just what his fast-talking sales guy had told me last year - namely, that in one year, the windows would pay for themselves.... There was silence on the other end of the line, so I just hung up. I have not heard anything back.

[Wayne Carlisle]

Is this as funny as I think it is ?

You know...if that was stated in the contract that would be interesting to see how a court of law handled that!