Trac pipe by Omega Flex

[mathew stouffer]

Anyone familiar with the installation instructions on this. I can't find an area which addresses penetration through metal into thehousing of a gas fireplace. This is a new condo hotel which was just completed. (Montage in Deer Valley)

[Nick Ostrowski]

Matt, I see that same type of install all the time beneath fireplaces. Some fireplace manufacturer install manuals call for black iron piping through the knockout location, some say refer to local codes. I'm not sure what Omega Flex calls for in this situation. When I run across it, I just recommend installing a rubber grommet around the line where it passes through through the knockout unless the fireplace installation manual is very specific about the type gas line material they require.

[Nick Ostrowski]

Found it. Page #41.

http://www.omegaflex.com/trac/technical/111743_Omega_Flex.pdf

[mathew stouffer]

When it is necessary to install TracPipe

through sheet metal enclosures, such as
those commonly used in decorative gas
fireplaces, the manufacturer’s recommendation
is to leave the protective yellow
polyethylene jacket in place through the
sheet metal penetration. The TracPipe

should be clipped to the building structure
at a suitable location outside the fireplace
to limit the amount of motion after installation.
If additional protection is required,
such as an installation with a source of
vibration (fan, etc.) which may cause
abrasion, then a short piece of floppy
conduit or PVC pipe may be used
between the jacket and the enclosure.

So as long as there is a clip, which I can't see, its good to go:)

[Jim Robinson]

Matt, do they bond the CSST there? I seem to get a blank look from any plumber or electrician when I bring it up here. I have yet to find it bonded according to the manufacturer's instructions (usually Ward Flex here).

[Rodger McBride]

Anyone familiar with the installation instructions on this. I can't find an area which addresses penetration through metal into thehousing of a gas fireplace. This is a new condo hotel which was just completed. (Montage in Deer Valley)
If you can ,look in The2006 International Fuel Gas code section 411. This may help you. I don,t know if it has changed with the newer codes,hope it helps.

[mathew stouffer]

I get the blank look as well. I have to look, usually I see ward flex as well.

[Jerry Peck]

Found it. Page #41.

http://www.omegaflex.com/trac/technical/111743_Omega_Flex.pdf

Nick,

"Found it" as in 'is required' or 'is not required' ... ;)

[Nick Ostrowski]

Nick,

"Found it" as in 'is required' or 'is not required' ... ;)

I don't know. You tell me.

[mathew stouffer]

I say not required. Recommended if there is a fan.

[Jerry Peck]

Found it. Page #41.

http://www.omegaflex.com/trac/technical/111743_Omega_Flex.pdf


Nick,

"Found it" as in 'is required' or 'is not required' ... ;)


I don't know. You tell me.

"Most gas fireplaces and gas logs (Refer to ANSI Z24.60) fall into the definition of fixed appliances which can be directly connected to TracPipe without the use of a flange mount fitting. The attachment is generally to the shut-off valve which may be located in the control area beneath the burner unit or at the side of the log set. TracPipe can be run into the lower control area for attachment without removal of the polyethylene jacket. In vented fireplaces, attachment to gas logs is best accomplished by removal of the jacket inside the fire box. This precludes direct flame contact with the polyethylene jacket. Stainless Steel melting temperatures (2000o F) are consistent with black iron."

[Bob Harper]

The mfr. says you can connect directly to the appliance, which I have done many times and see no problem per se. However, you would have to remove the poly jacket to meet the stated clearances to combustibles whether factory built fireplace with vented logs or a gas appliance such as a direct vent. Too, you need a shutoff either within 6ft of the appliance or one that meets the three criteria: serves only that appliance, labelled, and readily accessible. It *should* have a sediment trap somewhere but fireplaces get special dispensation from the ICC as not mandatory within 6ft. With a basement, the better approach is simply incorporate a sed. trap with shutoff below the Fp that is 'readily accessible' and labelled.

Interesting perspective but I'm not sure any of the CSST mfrs. have tested their product passing through a factory built fireplace. The penetration into any fireplace should be sealed appropriately.

[Jerry Peck]

It *should* have a sediment trap somewhere but fireplaces get special dispensation from the ICC as not mandatory within 6ft.

Bob,

Questions for you (we are out camping to - hopefully - watch the shuttle launch tomorrow morning and I do not have my codes on this computer):
- I thought the IRC did not require a sediment trap at all for illumination appliances such as clothes dryers, gas light, ranges, fireplaces, and the like.
- I thought the 6 feet was applicable to the shut off, not to the sediment trap.

[Bob Harper]

JP, hope the lauch goes well.

A sed trap is not *required* but recommended which is what I said. G2419.4 calls for the trap (when installed) to be located downstream of the appliance shutoff. G2420.5 requires shutoffs within 6 ft of the appliance, which puts the trap within 6ft. However since fireplaces are allowed to have shutoffs remote from the appliance, so too are the traps for them. However, it would still be a best practice to locate the trap as close as reasonably practical to the appliance where it can be accessed for inspection, service or attach as gas pressure manometer. Putting traps downstream of shutoffs is intended to provide a point to tap into the piping for a direct inlet gas pressure reading.

HTH,

[Tom Rees]

In my opinion the real question is that the CSST will rub on the metal edges of that opening. Flex pipe is not allowed to penetrate opening at furnace, is this the same thing? I also never see the pipe grounded or bonded, I don't think they know how to. I have seen two installations in the last week where they ran the CSST through the clean out at exterior into firebox.

[Jerry Peck]

G2419.4 calls for the trap (when installed) to be located downstream of the appliance shutoff. G2420.5 requires shutoffs within 6 ft of the appliance, which puts the trap within 6ft. However since fireplaces are allowed to have shutoffs remote from the appliance, so too are the traps for them.

Bob,

Gotcha, it was the way I was reading what you wrote that threw me off, I was thinking you were saying there was a code which specified that the sediment trap had to be within 6 feet - no but ... as you pointed out, the shut off has to be within 6 feet, and (of course) the sediment trap is downstream from the shut off, ergo "within 6 feet" ... excepting the fireplace location stuff. :cool:

I've got to try to remember that 'sediment trap within 6 feet' thing as I bet I can mess with some gas pipe installers minds ... :)

[JB Thompson]

I really agree with your smart idea. Thanks

Brian,

Can you blacklist this guy? I don't know what he's doing or why, but all of his posts contain ad links.

Bruce