Breaker Labling

[Don Martin]

Aluminum wire connected to 50 amp 240 volt breaker. Breaker is labeled CU Only, but once I got home to finish the report I see the label also has CU/AL on it. How is this label to be interpreted?

[Jim Port]

Confusing to say the least. However, if I were to guess I would say that CSA has only listed the breaker for use with copper. I don't know why they would list it differently than Siemens.

Might be time for a phone call to Siemens Tech Support.

[Bill Kriegh]

The CU only is above the column for amperages 35 or under. The breaker is listed for aluminum for 40 to 50 AMPs.

Yes, confusing. The "cheap at any inconvienience" shows up here in the form of being too cheap to make a stamp for different sizes of breakers.

[Bill Kriegh]

The CU only is above the column for amperages 35 or under. The breaker is listed for aluminum for 40 to 50 AMPs.

Yes, confusing. The "cheap at any inconvienience" shows up here in the form of being too cheap to make a stamp for different sizes of breakers.

Why I have to carry copies of manufacturer's catalogs around in the "smart phone" for building inspections.

[Robert Meier]

Are these CB's feeding AC units? Otherwise the conductors look a little small.

[Don Martin]

Yes, to AC units

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

The wire connector screws don't look right to me. They appear to be simple slotted screws, and not combination slotted/robertson screw heads from what I can see in the first photograph of the four wire connector screw heads I can see in the first photograph in various positions. I may very well be mistaken, but I thought all residential Siemens QP breakers had combination slot/robertson wire connector screws on them.

I'm also not recalling EVER seeing a black label on a SIEMENS QP Breaker wherein SIEMENS hasn't been in ALL Capital Letters.

I'm also wondering why I am seeing the word "Listed" (in upper & lower case) to the right of the UL insignia & trademark lacking a US lower right of the UL insignia circle; and not below same, and how the word "Listed" has been run together with an abbreviated description. I am further concerned as to the improper proportion appearance of the CSA insignia and the lacking trademark mark which is always to the right center of the open C, as discussed in the second link whitepaper from CSA on Counterfeiting products and the improper use of their insignia marks dating back to 2002; and some other "typesetting" concerns on the labels.

I am suspicious that the pictured may be counterfeit. Unknown age of what is pictured, and obviously more details would be necessary to explore/confirm with the manufacturer, including the breaker side view and label information (origin, date code, etc.).

See white paper from Siemens attached. Although it focuses more on the 15 & 20 Amp QPs it does address the issue in general.

Contact information is included in the attached. If you prefer to read the Siemens white paper from last year on line it may be viewed here: http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/internet-dms/btlv/Residential/Residential/docs_Circuit%20Breakers/SIE_Counterfeit_WP.pdf

CSA's whitepaper on counterfeiting anti-counterfeiting efforts, hosted on NEMA.org's website: http://www.nema.org/gov/anti-counterfeiting/upload/CSA.counterfeit_marks_white_paper_e.pdf

[Don Martin]

HG you are a paranoid old..... :-)

20 year old house. I assumed the breakers are original except for one or two of the branch circuits. The house is vacant and the panel is accessible so I might just have to go back and get a few more photos. I won't be in the area tomorrow but possibly Friday.

I'll let you know

[Rollie Meyers]

Looks like the breaker is copper only for Canada, since the OP is in Bakersfield, what it is listed for in Canuckistan is irrelevent.

[Don Martin]

A few more photos of the suspect breakers.

Rollie, please explain about the Canadian listing.

[Rollie Meyers]

A few more photos of the suspect breakers.

Rollie, please explain about the Canadian listing.


The breaker is UL listed as shown by the photos in the orig. post, it is marked as "CU/AL 60/75°C WIRE" below it is the CSA trademark w/ "CU only" on it which means to me it a Canadian listing restriction that has no value outside of Canada.

[John Kogel]

The breaker is UL listed as shown by the photos in the orig. post, it is marked as "CU/AL 60/75°C WIRE" below it is the CSA trademark w/ "CU only" on it which means to me it a Canadian listing restriction that has no value outside of Canada.Thanks, Rollie. CSA - Canadian Standards Association.
Now tell us why those breakers had to be assembled in Mexico. :D

[Kristi Silber]

Perhaps when these were made the CSA knew something UL didn't, and listed them the way they did for good reason. Just because they're in a different country doesn't make them any safer.

[Rollie Meyers]

Thanks, Rollie. CSA - Canadian Standards Association.
Now tell us why those breakers had to be assembled in Mexico. :D


Just like everything else, 'cause of cheaper labor...... & the North American Fraud and Theft Agreement, NAFTA that Canukistan,the US & Mexico are part of.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

The first photo in Don's followup post/series clearly confirms that the wire connector screws are simple slot-only type and that

Combination slot/robertson wire connector screws are not present.

Would have expected combination slot/robertson wire connector screws for January 1992 mfg and esp. for Canadian approval/market labeling.

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/attachments/electrical-systems-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/24727d1330199836-breaker-labling-001.jpg

Suspected counterfeit, the panel as well, suspected counterfeit/bootleg.

The hotline number and contact information for SIEMENS has already been supplied earlier. Suggest verification of authenticity or suspected counterfeit-ness with Manufacturer.