Attic Insulation. What kind is this?

[Dan Joandrea]

The other day I inspected a home in Sterling Hts Michigan, and I have found an insulation that I never seen before. The house was build in 1950. Attached are some pictures of the insulation. It is white in color, and is almost like sand. Can someone tell me what type of insulation is this, or where can I find more information?

Thank you

[Nathan Thornberry]

Could be Zonolite.

[Peter Louis]

Kind of Vermiculite, mentioned to client

[Robert Ernst]

Possibly Perlite and it's R-3 per inch I believe.

[John Kogel]

It is not vermiculite.
That house was not built in 1950, or that part of the roof was built later.

Manufactured trusses and plywood sheathing = 1970 or later. JMO

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

It is not vermiculite.
That house was not built in 1950, or that part of the roof was built later.

Manufactured trusses and plywood sheathing = 1970 or later. JMO

FYI
Pre-fabs and mods were in full swing in the 50s. We've been using plywood since the post WWII Building Boom.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Possibly Perlite and it's R-3 per inch I believe.

Thats a possiblity.

[John Kogel]

FYI
Pre-fabs and mods were in full swing in the 50s. We've been using plywood since the post WWII Building Boom.FYI, the poster said 1950. I see steel plate gussets, not nailed plywood gussets from the 50's. I also see spruce plywood, not fir, with H-clips, not simply a gap.

FYI, here's some reading for you.
Wood Truss History, Design and Manufacture - Truss Frame Construction (http://www.truss-frame.com/truss-mfg.html)

In 1952, in Pompano Beach Florida, after experimenting with plywood gusset plates and varying concoctions and combinations of glue, staples, nails and screws, the metal plate connected engineered wood truss was invented and patented. The inventor, A. Carroll Sanford, founder of Sanford Industries, marked the beginning of the truss industry, that is still changing home, apartment and commercial building construction all over the world.


http://www.ehow.com/facts_7201823_history-roof-trusses.html
1. Invention

o A. Carroll Sanford invented the modern wood truss in 1952 in Pompano Beach, Florida. While playing around with plywood gusset plates, glue, staples, nails and screws, Sanford stumbled upon idea for the first metal plate-connected wood truss and patented that system.
Pre-fabricated

o In the late 1950s and early 1960s, pre-fabricated roof trusses were introduced. One common brand was Gang-Nail. These trusses used a multi-nail plate connector and companies could quickly and cheaply mass-produce them.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

What's your point? Your information doesn't dispute what I said, only what YOU said.

YOU INSISTED the structure HAD to be 1970s.

I simply pointed out that type construction has been quite popular and common in the OPs location and in FULL SWING since the 50s and that Plywood has been popular for use since the post WWII building boom.

Your claims that the entire home HAD to be 20+ years newer - and that the truss structure HAD TO BE 1970+ still doesn't jive. They could very well be mid-late 50s or 60s.

The OP typed "The house was build in 1950."

Said build, not built, so wouldn't be surprised if meant 1950s.

The cords are stamped. MIGHT even be a "kit home".

There is nothing pictured that suggests that the home could not have been built in the 1950s - which includes that later half of the gosh darn decade!

However, that's not the topic of interest of the OP, and your diatribe is entirely off-topic and off-base.


The other day I inspected a home in Sterling Hts Michigan, and I have found an insulation that I never seen before. The house was build in 1950. Attached are some pictures of the insulation. It is white in color, and is almost like sand. Can someone tell me what type of insulation is this, or where can I find more information?

Thank you

[Dan Joandrea]

Thank you for the info. I appreciate all your help.

[Raymond Wand]

diatribe |ˈdīəˌtrīb|
noun
a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something: a diatribe against the Roman Catholic Church.

ORIGIN late 16th cent. (denoting a disquisition): from French, via Latin from Greek diatribē ‘spending of time, discourse,’ from dia ‘through’ + tribein ‘rub.’

Watson before you accuse anyone of a diatribe you may wish to enlighten your ego. The only diatribe that has taken place is your continual need to put people down who don't agree with you.

John was simply expressing his opinion the same as you.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

It might be decomposing perlite plaster, or Perlite fill boards.

A more recent example of 80s/90s use can be seen on page 11/11 near the bottom of the first attached document which proports to afford a 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 rated ceiling to floor or roof protection to wood frame.

What may have been done 50s-80s can vary, including spray fill, formed boards, and loose, including site popped, and pumped/troweled. Also sound projects airports, formed shapes, etc. not just in masonry walls (see second & third docs attached), esp. if someone was scrounging "extras" from projects at their worksite.

It doesn't appear yellow, but gray, but suppose the possibility exists that it could also be decomposing UFFI.

Another possiblity, retrofit polystyrene boards covered over with perlite stucco, plaster or lightweight concrete.

ALso possibly, a lightweight concrete with perlite or mag insulation, pumped/foamed in such as "Thermal Krete", "Air Krete" or similar brands/formulae between 50s & mid-80s.


Would be interesting to note if your moisture meter/metal detector goes off at the ceiling from below. Any sign of prior metal grid ceiling based electric radiant heat below?



Good luck with your endeavors. As you know lots of pre-fabs, roll-off mods and even kit-based subdivisions of that vintage in the greater mo-town area.

[Nathan Thornberry]

Robert Ernst was right, it's Perlite, and yes this type of construction was being done widely in the 50's- same here in Indiana. Rarely see the Perlite, but it comes up every so often, and it's not hazardous.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Took some searching, but I finally found some info on the OLD "Thermal-Krete" (not the modern foam board insulated/filled basement concrete wall system, but the foamed retro-fit wall cavity and ceiling/floor insulation system)

Which was michigan based
Omni-Techn Energy Products,
1515 Michigan Avenue, N.E.
Grand Rapids, MI 49503
Trademarked "Thermal Krete" in 1983.
First used as a trade name May 1, 1983

System via franchised dealers installations.

"Insulating material, for sale only to franchised dealers, a cementitious composition with components that generate gaseous inclusions not for use on chimneys."

Ad, article, regarding an open-house installation demo:

(google newspaper scanned image of same): Ludington Daily News - Google News Archive Search (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=110&dat=19850819&id=UzVQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4lUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2162,7944884)

Expanded, the product produced approx R4 per inch and weighed 4-5 lbs per cubic foot.

Inspectapedia site has some scanned articles from 83-85 on the product, one includes description as "magnesite concrete".

Here is one of them:
http://inspectapedia.com/Energy/Wall_Cavity_Concrete.pdf

It offered no structural stability or strength. One of several articles indicates maximum applied application had been the cavities of a 2x8 cathedral ceiling/roof cavity.

I don't recall this company or "trade mark registered" product surviving the late 80s economic struggles of the state & country, or being around to the UFFI debacles, either. I don't recall a trade name registration being issued for more than 10 yrs. Obviously another entity is using the identical product name for something completely different, these days.

[John Kogel]

It is not vermiculite.
That house was not built in 1950, or that part of the roof was built later.

Manufactured trusses and plywood sheathing = 1970 or later. JMO


FYI
Pre-fabs and mods were in full swing in the 50s. We've been using plywood since the post WWII Building Boom.
Sorry , Dan. Thanks for being patient with us. We are fed false information every day in real estate listings, so that is why we need to use the clues we can find in the house to track its history sometimes.

I can accept that given the perlite insulation and the early form of steel truss plates, the trusses could be mid to late 50's.

The plywood looks like it was installed later. Those H-clips did not appear until the 1980's. In fact, the patent was granted for them in 1981. In my area at least, manufactured trusses became standard around 1970. Builders continued to use shiplap roof sheathing, as it was cheaper than plywood, well into the 70's.