High potential cost to correct "minor" defects at "commercial" sliding doors

[Michael Thomas]

Ran into this on at an inspection at a high-rise condominium building: no one had a key for the locking mechanism at a Efco "semi-commerical" door to a balcony.

Reported as such, of course.

Here's were we now stand, per clients agent:


This morning Vince from Atlas Door spent 2 hours trying to open the balcony door.

Efco patio door, 9 ft
6 pt latch
Removed escutcheons, tried to manipulate cylinder/mechanism manually

He thinks the thumb turn/mechanism attached to latch is stripped or broken.

Vince said it is possible to punch out the cylinder and replace. He will call Efco to see if replacement cylinders are available. Pulling back the aluminum cladding around the door is another option. So is replacing the whole door.

Michael T - will you post on the inspector boards & see if anyone has any insight?

My thoughts is the obvious: find a really good locksmith and/or contact the manufacturer.

That, and report that in the case of these "non-standard" doors missing keys / inoperative locking mechanisms could become significant or even major expenses....

.... every day I'm reminded that the list of "hidden" liabilities in our business is essentially endless.

[Jack Feldmann]

Good info

[Garry Sorrells]

Significant or even major expenses.... is a relative concept. Replace the door is a radical solution. Flat tire - replace car ?

The answer is to get in a locksmith, should make quick work of it.

I use to tell people to call in a locksmith (had a guy on speed dial I would call for them). Then one day I (personally) had a need to pick a lock. Where I found that it was really not that hard. I had done every thing else with locks but not pick one, no personal need. Understanding of design and a little touch, time and patience will get it done. I was surprised how easy it was to learn.

Door installers and mechanics typically have not learned the technique to pick the locks, not part of their job description. Install, repair or replace.

So recommend a locksmith, have a referral (good and honest) on your speed dial.

[Jerry Peck]

Efco patio door, 9 ft
6 pt latch
Removed escutcheons, tried to manipulate cylinder/mechanism manually

He thinks the thumb turn/mechanism attached to latch is stripped or broken.

This is what I got from reading that, and a locksmith may not be able to help:

The door has a 6 point latching mechanism, which likely means slides, levers, and joints in the mechanism to latch and unlatch the 6 point latch.

The thumb turn/mechanism turned, but did not operate the latching mechanism - this is because he said "He thinks the thumb turn/mechanism attached to latch is stripped or broken.". That does not, to me, indicate that the thumb turn did not turn as though it was locked, but that it did turn, but nothing happened with it was turned ... thus it might be "stripped or broken."

Just my take on what I read in what was said.

[John Kogel]

This is what I got from reading that, and a locksmith may not be able to help:

The door has a 6 point latching mechanism, which likely means slides, levers, and joints in the mechanism to latch and unlatch the 6 point latch.

The thumb turn/mechanism turned, but did not operate the latching mechanism - this is because he said "He thinks the thumb turn/mechanism attached to latch is stripped or broken.". That does not, to me, indicate that the thumb turn did not turn as though it was locked, but that it did turn, but nothing happened with it was turned ... thus it might be "stripped or broken."

Just my take on what I read in what was said.He also states the cylinder can be punched out and replaced, implying that a locksmith can fix it.
I would certainly give a locksmith a chance at it. With the cylinder out, he may be able to pull the latch.

[Jerry Peck]

He also states the cylinder can be punched out and replaced, implying that a locksmith can fix it.[quote]

He does state that, but I take that as meaning 'no great harm will come if the cylinder is punched out so the mechanism can be operated with tools because a locksmith can fix it'.

[quote]I would certainly give a locksmith a chance at it. With the cylinder out, he may be able to pull the latch.

I don't recall anyone here saying *not* to call the locksmith first, however, I suspect that Michael's post was intended to alert us all that 'something which may seem to be a minor cost could end up being a major cost, such as ending up replacing the door.

Which brings me to Garry's comment:

Significant or even major expenses.... is a relative concept. Replace the door is a radical solution. Flat tire - replace car ?

That is not even a close example. A closer example may be "The flat tire is on a wheel which is stuck on the hub ... may have to remove the entire rear drive/suspension carriage."

That is a real life example from years back: I had a 1967 E-Type Jaguar (XKE) and lost the tread on a rear tire, the spoke wheel hub splines had bound up on the hub splines and the tire place could not get the wheel off the hub after removing the knock off cap which held the wheel on. The only option was to remove the entire Jag rear carrier and work on it from the inside out, part by part ... then I came up with a 'let's see if this works to loosen the wheel' experiment - I put the knock off cap on loose and took the Jag for a number of sharp turn spins around the parking lot, forward and then in reverse, just as I was about to give up on it, I decided one more try with sudden shifts forward and reverse (I was getting desperate), and that worked, the wheel came loose from the hub (whew!).

No need to "replace the house" as Garry implied, and no need to "replace the car" as would have been the comparable result, at the worst it may be "replace the door" if they cannot get it to unlock and have to remove the door by cutting through all the anchors. And "replace the door" was a listed option.

Of course, though, ALWAYS try the easiest and least expensive options FIRST, then work toward the more complicated and expensive options until one works.

Garry was exaggerating for effect - we all exaggerate here at times for effect ... such as when someone says *all*, *always*, *never* - few, if any, things are "always" "all" or "never". :)

[John Kogel]

That is not even a close example. A closer example may be "The flat tire is on a wheel which is stuck on the hub ... may have to remove the entire rear drive/suspension carriage."

That is a real life example from years back: I had a 1967 E-Type Jaguar (XKE) and lost the tread on a rear tire, the spoke wheel hub splines had bound up on the hub splines and the tire place could not get the wheel off the hub after removing the knock off cap which held the wheel on. The only option was to remove the entire Jag rear carrier and work on it from the inside out, part by part ... then I came up with a 'let's see if this works to loosen the wheel' experiment - I put the knock off cap on loose and took the Jag for a number of sharp turn spins around the parking lot, forward and then in reverse, just as I was about to give up on it, I decided one more try with sudden shifts forward and reverse (I was getting desperate), and that worked, the wheel came loose from the hub (whew!).

That's funny, the knockoff design was to make for a quick tire change, but like a lot of good ideas, there was a down side as well apparently.

IIRC, that was how we used to get the mid-50's Dodge and Plymouth wheels to pop loose, by driving around with the lugs a bit loose. You had to be careful not to damage the studs, which were actually bolts and left hand thread on one side to boot. Another great automotive idea.

[Benjamin Thompson]

high-rise condominium building.....door to a balcony.
Do they really need to lock it??:)

[Garry Sorrells]

high-rise condominium building.....door to a balcony.
Do they really need to lock it??:)

Rappelling :D:D