Another Inspector Out Of Business [Archive] - InspectionNews

Brian Hannigan

07-20-2012, 04:16 PM

As a member of InspectionNews you get the email digest twice a week.

It is normal for me to get back several Auto Responses that are generic "On Vacation" or "thank you for the email, we will reply shortly".

Today I got the following....

"Hello,

Thank you for emailing us. Due to the economic climate and new legislation for regulations and tax increases such as the "Affordable Health Care Act" we have had to close our doors. It is with sadness that we are no longer in business and would like to thank you for attempting to contact us."

How sad is that?

I hope the rest of you can hang in there!

If you want to help me hang in there please click on the google ads every time you are on InspectionNews and click/visit the banner ad sponsors too. They are all responsible for keeping this site free for you to use and keep me fed.

Nolan Kienitz

07-20-2012, 07:15 PM

This is just sad, but (my opinion) just a sign of the times and the tip of the iceberg.

I know many HIs who are winding down and will not be inspecting anymore within a year.

And they are some of the best who work their backsides off for their clients and helping other HIs in the profession.

Jack Feldmann

07-21-2012, 05:32 AM

I think Tennessee has gone from around 900 inspectors to around 400 =/-.
We still have too many in Knoxville (for the size of the city).

Gunnar Alquist

07-21-2012, 08:32 AM

Due to the economic climate and new legislation for regulations and tax increases such as the "Affordable Health Care Act" we have had to close our doors.

"Affordable Health Care Act"? Really? :rolleyes:

Nathan Thornberry

07-21-2012, 09:41 AM

Any inspector going out of business in this market is doing so by choice, armed with nothing more than a stubborn mindset. In this guys case, add to it sitting in a chair watching cable news instead of working like he should have been.

Vern Heiler

07-22-2012, 05:56 PM

"Affordable Health Care Act"? Really? :rolleyes:
I had the same question Gunner! And if he is in the $250K bracket I don't know what he was doing crawling around down here:D . ( I think Glen Beck has found a new medium to spew his drivel.)

BridgeMan

07-23-2012, 03:10 AM

But it is all Obama's fault, right? Same for the lower gas prices, right?

Jeffrey L. Mathis

07-23-2012, 04:24 AM

A bitter man grasping at anything to rationalize failure. One thing this nation has always been no. 1 at is blaming. In North Carolina, we're down to under 900 licensees. That translates to opportunity to me.
JL Mathis

Lee Taylor

07-23-2012, 06:28 AM

Irony: The Affordable Healthcare Act is costing me almost twice as much.

Michael Thomas

07-23-2012, 07:42 AM

Irony: The Affordable Healthcare Act is costing me almost twice as much.

Could you be more specific?

Lee Taylor

07-23-2012, 11:04 AM

Yes, Michael,
Notified premiums will rise, co-pays will also rise. Instead of the remainder of the services are paid to the provider, only a portion is being paid. When I asked the insurance company, they said it was to fund the health care act. If this hasn't happened to you, it will very soon.

Rick Goble

07-23-2012, 02:51 PM

I got the same information from my health care provider as Lee. :mad:

Billy Stephens

07-23-2012, 04:40 PM

But it is all Obama's fault, right? Same for the lower gas prices, right?
.
Lower Gas Prices How / where ?
.

Ron Bibler

07-23-2012, 06:23 PM

Yup Due to the Affordable Health Care Act i Must now see my Doctor every months for a check up. This cost another $ 75.00 for the co/pay Then the lab-work required and another $ 40.00. Then we just got the bump from $ 900.00 a month to 1,040.00 a month...

I'm OK But what about the guy that is just getting by... you think he has an extra $ 500 or $ 600...

But don't get me started on Calif. and the wast of money... We need a new fast train like we need ? the Affordable Health Care Act...

Jerry Brown wants to have a new tax to pay for this kind of crap. When will you Liberals ever get it? You keep voting these wack jobs into office...

I know lets re-elect Obama... He just what we need. He can fix the housing market... Can you say"Tony Rezko"

Love you :D

Ron

Corn Walker

07-23-2012, 06:52 PM

Yup Due to the Affordable Health Care Act i Must now see my Doctor every months for a check up. This cost another $ 75.00 for the co/pay Then the lab-work required and another $ 40.00. Then we just got the bump from $ 900.00 a month to 1,040.00 a month...

Wait, where in the act does it say you must see your doctor? I can't believe people were up in arms about the insurance mandate when they should have been up in arms about the must see your doctor mandate.

Strangely enough, my insurance premiums went down for the first time ever. My neighbor got a rebate check on overpayment of premiums due to administrative cost caps. If any company claims it is being forced to charge you more money because of Obamacare I'd be very skeptical of the claim. Aside from the cost ratio caps and keeping college students on their parents' plans, most major parts of the law haven't gone into effect yet.

Remember, companies will and do lie to you about why they're doing anything. There was a story in the news today about Caterpillar making record profits and paying their executives handsome bonuses because they were able to dupe labor into a six year wage freeze because of a need to cut costs.

As for health insurance, I don't want to paint the insurance companies in too negative a light, but we should probably stop thinking of them as health care companies and start thinking of them as wall street bankers. After all, the way a lot of them actually make money is by investing your premiums in the market, not by becoming more efficient at delivering health care.

For our part (well, probably not you or I, since we're all likely to be self-employed here), we're too far removed from the cost of our health care services. When our employers pay the premiums, or when our co-pays are vanishingly low, we consume more unnecessary heath care services.

If you believe everyone should have access to health care, a single-payer system is most likely to provide the most efficient delivery of healthcare services (I know, we're not used to our government being called "efficient"). Some people believe most things, health care included, should be available to those who can afford it and those who can't, well, not my problem. For them, I can see how Obamacare, let alone single-payer, is anathema to their ideals.

Scott Patterson

07-23-2012, 07:13 PM

My health insurance will increase in September by $83 a month.

It is with United Healthcare and they sent a letter saying the increase is due to the healthcare act and the additional expensense that are placed on the insurance providers. I almost felt sorry for them for a few seconds.

I also got the refund of premiums, it amounted to almost one month of premunins! Yet they are still raising my rates! So if they have to issue a refund in 2013 it will amount to a free loan from the Patterson family!

Oh, I'm also responsible for the success of my company not his highness O"bama.

Ron Bibler

07-23-2012, 07:46 PM

[QUOTE=Corn Walker;203835]Wait, where in the act does it say you must see your doctor? I can't believe people were up in arms about the insurance mandate when they should have been up in arms about the must see your doctor mandate.QUOTE]

It has to do with the type of meds i take...

Like i said when will you Libs get it...

I just want to call up some Doctor and say hey can you see me today and how much do you charge and how long have you been inspecting People?

You sound like a good Doctor to me lets book the appointment for 3:00pm today.

Now why can't i do that? Why... Because some wack job Liberals came up with the idea of controlling Doctors and my health... HMO...

And i like Scott did start up and build my Inspection company 35 years ago when Obama was just a kid in grade school... I fed my kids and put a roof over there heads and prayed every night with them and gave them the 10 Commandments to keep all the days they live.:D Dad-blamed-wack-jobs-liberals...

Best

Ron

Corn Walker

07-23-2012, 08:18 PM

It has to do with the type of meds i take...

Like i said when will you Libs get it...

What's there to get? The ACA doesn't specify that, and the rules on treatment efficacy were ditched because someone called them "death panels."

I just want to call up some Doctor and say hey can you see me today and how much do you charge and how long have you been inspecting People?

You sound like a good Doctor to me lets book the appointment for 3:00pm today.

Now why can't i do that?

You absolutely can. Does your doctor not take cash?

Why... Because some wack job Liberals came up with the idea of controlling Doctors and my health... HMO...

Your outrage is misdirected. Your doctor isn't controlled by anyone, other than the state board of health and licensure. No one is preventing them from taking cold, hard cash. If your doctor can't fit you in, it's probably because they have too many patients. They should cut the number of patients in half and charge everyone double.

Except the insurance contract prevents them from doing that, so they'd have to triple or quadruple the rates of those paying with cash to make up for the revenue fall. Strange, everywhere else cash gets you a discount...

Ron Bibler

07-23-2012, 08:34 PM

H.G. Watson, Sr.

07-23-2012, 09:03 PM

You absolutely can. Does your doctor not take cash?

Wrong...All doctors must be connected to an HMO... or they can't get insurance.

Your outrage is misdirected. No My Outrage is not Misdirected...

all insurance for Doctors is under the control of Federal Law. this was set up by a Liberals Congress.

If your Doctor is not connected with an HMO. He don't work...

Dad-blamed-wack-jobs-liberals...:D

Best

Ron

Huh?!? WTHeck are you talking about?

The Doctor's malpractice insurance?
The patient's insurance plan?

There are loads of options, even in California, for other than HMO.

If you choose to utilize a doctor who is part of the Kaiser system that's yours and his CHOICE.

There is NO federal law that REQUIRES every doctor to be a participating provider with ANY HMO organization.

Dan Harris

07-23-2012, 09:20 PM

How sad is that?

I hope the rest of you can hang in there!

If you want to help me hang in there please click on the google ads every time you are on InspectionNews and click/visit the banner ad sponsors too. They are all responsible for keeping this site free for you to use and keep me fed.

Guys lets not forget the purpose of this post., and help make sure if Brians insurance goes up he can afford to keep tihs board open :)

Gunnar Alquist

07-23-2012, 09:36 PM

Guys lets not forget the purpose of this post., and help make sure if Brians insurance goes up he can afford to keep tihs board open :)

Dan,

No. Because it's much more fun to complain about the "wack job liberals" and the "anal retentive conservatives". :rolleyes:

Ron Bibler

07-23-2012, 10:16 PM

Dan,

No. Because it's much more fun to complain about the "wack job liberals" and the "anal retentive conservatives". :rolleyes:

Now Gunnar you started the drift in this post. All i did was point out the facts that Obamatax is costing people more money. And many others supported these facts.

I gust we have a new set of words for people that state facts.

Lets look at a fact. is it not best to call up a home inspector and interview him on the phone and these a date.

It was a Librial congress that required doctors to be connected to an HMO. and this set up new rules and paved the way for Obamatax.

The fact is all this HMO to Obamatax is going to cost us all more money.

Best

Ron

John Ghent

07-24-2012, 05:27 AM

Isn't this a great country?

Seems to me that if all or most HI's are independent businessmen (and I use the term businessmen loosely) and costs of insurance are rising, then increasing prices on your services would be in order. Even without our new health care laws the cost of health care has done nothing but go up. As has gas, E&O, flashlight batteries, computers, I think you get my point. One post stated a drop by half of inspectors in his area. I call that opportunity. As to who voted Brown back in in California, we only have Californians to blame.

As a " Dad-blamed-wack-jobs-liberal " I want to grace you with of of my favorite prayers:

Dear Lord:
I know that I don't talk to you that much, but this year you have taken away:

my favorite screenwriter Nora Ephron,

my favorite visionary Steve Jobs,

my favorite author Ray Bradbury,

my favorite children's author Maurice Sendak,

my favorite American Bandstand guy Dick Clark,

my favorite hairdresser Vidal Sassoon,

my favorite musician Earl Scruggs,

my favorite Monkee Davy Jones,

my favorite 60 Minutes guy Mike Wallace,

and my favorite singer Whitney Houston.

I just wanted to let you know

that my favorite radio announcer is Rush Limbaugh.

Corn Walker

07-24-2012, 08:30 AM

Now Gunnar you started the drift in this post. All i did was point out the facts that Obamatax is costing people more money. And many others supported these facts.
Wait, now it's Obamatax? Y'all got to slow down with your disparaging terminology, I can't keep up. I was just getting used to calling it "Evil Soshilized Medicine."

I gust we have a new set of words for people that state facts.
I gust we do.

Lets look at a fact.
I saw a picture of one once. I think it was in a Dr. Seuss book.

is it not best to call up a home inspector and interview him on the phone and these a date.
Positively Seussical! I thought that's where you were going with this.

It was a Librial congress that required doctors to be connected to an HMO. and this set up new rules and paved the way for Obamatax.
Those darn librials. They're so sneaky they create laws that only right-thinking conservatives can see, such as the requirement for all doctors to join HMOs. You need to wear those special glasses (you remember, the ones Roddy Piper wore in They Live (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/). You still have yours, right?) just to be able to read the law. If it weren't for a certain Mr. Sylvester McMonkey McBean who provided me with the finest pair of said glasses I wouldn't have believed you.

The fact is all this HMO to Obamatax is going to cost us all more money.
Since you're so fond of "facts" care to guess which president signed the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 into law? If you're not allergic to book learnin' you might care to look up the history of HMOs (they go back way before 1973), how they work, and what the HMO Act of 1973 actually did (hint: it did not require doctors to join them).

Scott Patterson

07-24-2012, 02:36 PM

Corn Walker

07-24-2012, 02:53 PM

Any of our Canadian friends that wish to chime on in and voice their opinions of their medical system are more than welcome. I think it might surprise a few...

Oh and don't forget to talk about the VAT! ;)

I don't expect anyone to believe a librial soshilist from Taxachusetts, so I found a proper God-fearing Conservative Christian woman for y'all to read.

How I Lost My Fear of Universal Health Care (http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/07/12/how-i-lost-my-fear-universal-health-care)

Ken Rowe

07-24-2012, 03:31 PM

It's funny how Obama or government is never responsible for successful businesses but always responsible for failed businesses.

Mister E

07-24-2012, 04:10 PM

Check out this video.

Thank You President Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRgB2eeHZEw)

Gunnar Alquist

07-24-2012, 05:07 PM

I just wanted to let you know that my favorite radio announcer is Rush Limbaugh.

John,

I think I ruptured my spleen. That was really funny!

Ron Bibler

07-24-2012, 05:35 PM

John,

I think I ruptured my spleen. That was really funny!

What i like Rush Limbaugh... And i think Dick Cheney can do no wrong:D

You should get some help with that spleen Gunnar...

Best

Ron

Mister E

07-24-2012, 06:20 PM

Check out this video.

Thank You President Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRgB2eeHZEw)

.#*!?

CHARLIE VAN FLEET

07-24-2012, 08:05 PM

john

you might be a redneck if your favorite singer is earl scruggs--hahaha
cvf

Ken Rowe

07-24-2012, 09:10 PM

Check out this video.

Thank You President Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRgB2eeHZEw)

The funniest thing about this video is she claims to have no job and kids but because of Obama she can now get health care. Sorry, but even 20 years ago if a person had no income and kids they could get healthcare.

Billy Stephens

07-25-2012, 05:33 AM

The funniest thing about this video is she claims to have no job and kids but because of Obama she can now get health care. Sorry, but even 20 years ago if a person had no income and kids they could get healthcare.
.
The Video is meant to be funny.

This one was not OBAMA'S GONNA PAY FOR MY GAS... - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc&feature=related)
.

Michael Thomas

07-25-2012, 09:06 AM

Ron Bibler

07-25-2012, 09:50 AM

WRT: "The ACA is increasing my premiums", here is factcheck.org's take:

FactCheck.org : The Truth About Health Insurance Premiums (http://www.factcheck.org/2010/11/the-truth-about-health-insurance-premiums/)

Obamatax makes no correction for the things that cause Health cost to go up. Tort reform, State lines, These are but a few of the real problem.

So one could say if it not helping its part of the problem...

Best

Ron

Ken Rowe

07-25-2012, 10:35 AM

Obamatax makes no correction for the things that cause Health cost to go up. Tort reform, State lines, These are but a few of the real problem.

So one could say if it not helping its part of the problem...

Best

Ron

Wait, I'm having a hard time following you. First you want less government involvement, now you want more?

First you claim health care reform is costing you money. Then you ask for more government involvement to reduce your cost?

Corn Walker

07-25-2012, 10:40 AM

Wait, I'm having a hard time following you. First you want less government involvement, now you want more?

First you claim health care reform is costing you money. Then you ask for more government involvement to reduce your cost?

Nobody said he had a consistent position. The only thing he's completely sure of is that them darned Librials have made a mess of things, and everything bad is their fault.

Dan Harris

07-25-2012, 10:56 AM

Nobody said he had a consistent position. The only thing he's completely sure of is that them darned Librials have made a mess of things, and everything bad is their fault.

That's not ture?
That's what I've learned from the Limbagh school /institute of advanced studies over the past 20 plus years. :D

Jerry Peck

07-25-2012, 06:11 PM

That's what I've learned from the Limbagh school /institute of advanced studies over the past 20 plus years. :D

So now you are ready to advance to the higher education of Kindergarten? :p

I've always had faith in you that you would eventually raise to a higher level and eventually even make it to 1st Grade. :D

Lee Taylor

07-26-2012, 11:11 AM

Well I guess the insurance thing is only affecting Rick and I, or anyone else in the Southwest.

And Nathan, Your statement may be true for your area. We are still struggling with the economy here. Over a hundred inspector's have closed shop and it doesn't matter how well you market. It does no good with investors that want to cover up problems with a coat of paint and rent the property, or the banks not getting paperwork back to those who can qualify in a timely manner. But I am continuing to make the contacts... BTW, I'm doing this while I eat lunch. Now it's time to go back to it.

Corn Walker

07-26-2012, 01:04 PM

Well I guess the insurance thing is only affecting Rick and I, or anyone else in the Southwest.

Part of the increases in premiums are due to the mandated minimum coverage plans have to offer, the largest of which are removing the lifetime caps (I have a friend in Aurora who is facing hundreds of thousands in medical care) and including dependents up to age 26.

But as far as I can tell, those increases are still dwarfed by the continuing rise in the cost of care. Here in Massachusetts, where we already had those mandatory minimum coverages (thank you, Mitt Romney) we haven't had huge premium increases. In fact my premiums went down this year for the first time ever due to the cost ratio cap in the ACA. Most of the increases others here have seen have been because of the cost of medical care continuing to spiral out of control.

Ultimately, the only way we're going to get costs down is either to make the insured pay out of pocket (you won't be so ready to get that MRI if it's a $150 copay or the full $1400 comes out of your HSA) or to have a single payer system where we ration health care. And by "ration" I mean limit what we collectively are willing to pay for. Liberals are afraid to use that word because they don't want to be accused of killing grandma, but the fact is, the last six months of my grandma's life ended up costing society hundreds of thousands of dollars. Either we have to not pay for that heart bypass for grandma or we have to suck it up and say we want those six months and pay for it. When I push my conservative friends on this point, they all want grandma to live, they just don't want to personally pay for it with more taxes. I'm sorry, but that wasn't one of the choices.

I'm not worried about the rich - if you have the means to pay out of pocket you'll be fine. The rest of us, those of us who need health insurance to protect against catastrophic losses, will either need to continue to pay more for it or support single-payer already. Not having insurance isn't an option - our society isn't going to let you bleed out in the hospital parking lot because you didn't pay your premiums. As a result, everyone who chooses not to get health insurance is either a freeloader or a soon-to-be freeloader on the system and the rest of us are paying for it.

Ron Bibler

07-26-2012, 10:49 PM

[QUOTE=Ken Rowe;204023]Wait, I'm having a hard time following you.QUOTE]

Ken...I'm not following you ? Thats not what i was saying. The Obamatax did nothing to lower the cost of health care.

A few things that they could have done that would have lowered health care cost.

1. Fix tort reform. Get the law suits under control.
2. Give people the chance to buy insurance across state lines.

I you look at the Republican plan these and other good ideas could have lowered health care cost.

Best

Ron

Jeff Zehnder

07-27-2012, 05:10 AM

I know this post has gone all over the map but no matter what your position is on the health care law you must understand that when you add 33 million people (now 30 after the recent supreme court ruling) YOU have to pay for it. The YOU is us and the cost is real. If you want to have it YOU have to pay for it… so far the bill is on VISA (Chinese and Saudis).

Ron Bibler

07-27-2012, 08:16 AM

Ken Rowe

07-27-2012, 09:06 AM

A few things that they could have done that would have lowered health care cost.

1. Fix tort reform. Get the law suits under control.
2. Give people the chance to buy insurance across state lines.

Weren't these included in the initial plan which the Republicans nixed?

Time to pay up suckers... Or vote in Mitt...:D

Isn't this nearly the exact same plan that Mitt implemented in his own state, well before Obama took office? If he did this in his own state what makes you think he would do anything differently as President?

Ron Bibler

07-27-2012, 09:30 AM

Weren't these included in the initial plan which the Republicans nixed?

Isn't this nearly the exact same plan that Mitt implemented in his own state, well before Obama took office? If he did this in his own state what makes you think he would do anything differently as President?

Ken The point is the Liberals did not put anything in Omamatax that will cut the cost of health care.

Now think hard Ken (it's about cutting cost)

Stick with us OK...

Things that cut cost... Obamatax is not one of them:eek: Wake up:o

Best

Ron

John Ghent

07-27-2012, 01:56 PM

Ken The point is the Liberals did not put anything in Omamatax that will cut the cost of health care.

Now think hard Ken (it's about cutting cost)

Stick with us OK...

Things that cut cost... Obamatax is not one of them:eek: Wake up:o

Best

Ron

We started cutting costs under Bill Clinton (balanced budget) but Bubba Bush had to kick Iraqi ass to atone for his daddy's errors. Look where we are now. ten years later, thousands dead, trillions wasted, no wonder we have a deficit. If it takes higher taxes to put us back on track, I volunteer to pay my fair share. I think the tax cuts the publicans have such a hard on over do not trickle down to the folks that need help, but they do help those who don't need any further help. Saw the new Batman movie last night and funny thing - he was battling against - Bain. Obama will be reelected. Mit comes off as a Stepford Husband and is running against what he fought so hard for in Mass. Talk about flip flops.

Ain't this a great country?

Ken Rowe

07-27-2012, 06:24 PM

Now think hard Ken (it's about cutting cost)

My mistake. I thought is was about healthcare reform.

Steven Turetsky

07-28-2012, 08:42 AM

I think "Obamacare" hurts more than it helps.

To help 30,000,000 they screwed with 311,000,000.

At the same time I realize that something had to be done.

The same people that are now covered with "Obamacare" were still costing us plenty. I don't hear too many stories about someone being turned away because they couldn't pay. Many would simply go to an emergency room for treatment and not pay the bill.

Lets not forget that there were always free clinics.

Perhaps the clinics should have been improved and expanded. It could be free and/or affordable rates. All of this would still have cost plenty, so all (or some) other solutions mentioned in previous posts should be enacted to bring down overall medical care costs.

I did an inspection last year. The client (who owned multiple medical centers) was having gold leaf applied to numerous columns, and having frescos painted on the ceilings. He showed me a poolstick that he bragged cost $15,000.

About six months later I ran into a contractor from the same job. He told me the FBI took the guy (and his wife) away in cuffs. Turns out they were bilking the HMOs/Medicade out of million$. I wonder how much of this goes on?

As far as those closing down; I'm sure there's more to the story.

Jerry Peck

07-28-2012, 09:45 AM

I started to wonder how this degenerated into a political spitting match ... then I remembered that Brian himself started it :) by posting that post which blamed the inspectors failings on Obama ... and it has gone downhill from there.

Seems to be a lot of people here who seemed to expect Obama to correct the economy in 4 years even though W spent 8 years running it toward the cliff and over the edge.

In case you've never tried it, ride in something downhill, you will have a fast and thrilling ride, but ... once you have hit bottom ... try pushing your ride back up the hill. Not any fun is it? And certainly nowhere near as easy or as fast.

Then, naturally it seems, this thread went further into the cesspool of politics by going over to Romneycare - that's right my Republican friends - the health care reform act is really Romneycare as it is patterned after his healthcare reform he did as Governor.

Corn Walker

07-28-2012, 11:18 AM

Then, naturally it seems, this thread went further into the cesspool of politics by going over to Romneycare - that's right my Republican friends - the health care reform act is really Romneycare as it is patterned after his healthcare reform he did as Governor.

Hey, I like Romneycare. There's a couple things about it that make it not so onerous here.

First, if healthcare is too expensive, you don't have to have it. Sure, there's a penalty but there's also an exemption from the penalty if you can't find an affordable plan. Based on the Commonwealth's definition of affordable, you have to be making six figures before the mandate kicks in.

Second, let's say times are rough and your inspection business just isn't bringing in the income it once was. Meanwhile you have a wife and two kids to feed. If you're making about $65k or less a year, you get subsidized health care. From what I've seen (depending on where you live) you pay about $250 - $500/mo for a family of four.

Third, it expanded medicaid. On that subsidized plan I mentioned above, the kids are actually on medicaid (what the Commonwealth calls "MassHealth") while the parents have a standard plan at a reduced rate. There has been a lot of skepticism about whether Medicaid is beneficial, but a recent study of Oregon's medicaid program showed that it absolutely is. Not only are people healthier, but they become more productive members of society. Emergency rooms and urgent care clinics should be just that, not preventable disease or routine health care.

Romney should be proud of his achievement.

Gunnar Alquist

07-28-2012, 11:22 AM

Jerry,

So, we should sensor Brian for starting this mess? :D

Darrel Hood

07-29-2012, 03:52 AM

Jerry Peck

07-29-2012, 07:51 AM

Jerry,
The four year expectation is in line with the President's public assessment. He said if it takes more than four years, his presidency would be a one term proposition. He never instructed us to adjust that expectation.

Darrel,

The President did not have to instruct us to adjust that expectation ... the President expected that the Republicans would work for the best interests of the country ... yes, in that respect he was a dreamer, but it would have been a realistic thing to expect ... but instead, the Republicans choose to stymie EVERYTHING that would have worked, the Democrats had to settle for less than what would have worked, and ...

... and you think WE are the ones who needed to be instructed as to what was going on in the news everyday? ;)

I am certain that we did not need to instruct the President that the Republicans only concern, without regard as to what happens to the country, is that they destroy whatever needs to be destroyed to make him a one term president. We should not think that it is his fault that we are not aware of what is going on.

Steven Turetsky

07-29-2012, 11:28 AM

Darrel,

The President did not have to instruct us to adjust that expectation ... the President expected that the Republicans would work for the best interests of the country ... yes, in that respect he was a dreamer, but it would have been a realistic thing to expect ... but instead, the Republicans choose to stymie EVERYTHING that would have worked, the Democrats had to settle for less than what would have worked, and ...

... and you think WE are the ones who needed to be instructed as to what was going on in the news everyday? ;)

I am certain that we did not need to instruct the President that the Republicans only concern, without regard as to what happens to the country, is that they destroy whatever needs to be destroyed to make him a one term president. We should not think that it is his fault that we are not aware of what is going on.

Jerry,

I have great respect for you and especially for your knowledge of code and other building issues, but in regards to your political views as described above; I believe you have tunnel vision.

Personally, I believe all pols are full of crap, and will say whatever it takes to get elected/reelected. I remember plenty that the Dems and the REPs did that I felt was wrong, and that caused this country to go downhill.

To stereotype either as the "Bad" ones or the "Good" one is blind.

Jerry Peck

07-29-2012, 12:24 PM

Personally, I believe all pols are full of crap, and will say whatever it takes to get elected/reelected. I remember plenty that the Dems and the REPs did that I felt was wrong, and that caused this country to go downhill.

I agree.

I also agree with the many of those who feel that trying to blame a slow recovery on President Obama and NOT on the Republicans in congress TOO is being blind and untruthful. With the help of BOTH the Republicans and Democrats in congress working in conjunction WITH, not against, the president would likely have help with a faster recovery.

You stated:

I think "Obamacare" hurts more than it helps.

To help 30,000,000 they screwed with 311,000,000.

At the same time I realize that something had to be done.

The same people that are now covered with "Obamacare" were still costing us plenty. I don't hear too many stories about someone being turned away because they couldn't pay. Many would simply go to an emergency room for treatment and not pay the bill.

Lets not forget that there were always free clinics.

And it is not as simple as that, and there are NOT "always free clinics" - thus my reply.

Your last response almost sounds like you are backtracking on your previous response?

There is NO arguable reason this great country of ours cannot provide FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL.

Billy Stephens

07-29-2012, 12:50 PM

There is NO arguable reason this great country of ours cannot provide FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL.
.
FREE HEALTHCARE is NOT FREE. Someone Must Pay The Tab.
* a lot of waste, fraud ( not the Mom trying to get care for her child ) by Dr. , Hospitals, Clinics into the Billions of Dollars. Get caught Go To Jail !

For starters let everyone qualified go to Medical School instead of limiting the number of Dr,s to keep the supply low, price high.
*why do you think you see a lot of Non US Doctors in practice there's a need but AMA limits the number of Medical School students ( at least for the last 50 years or longer.)

Doctor will not accept New Medicare Patient , Doctor loses License. Now the Doctor wants 5 grand retainer to limit number of patients, I want a Million Dollar a year Income Guarantee before I unlock the door and See the Firist Patient.:rolleyes:
.

Scott Patterson

07-30-2012, 06:34 AM

I think this horse is dead, but.....

Quick story about waste..

My son's ear was cut by the sharp tooth of a friends puppy. It required some sutures to keep it from scaring. At the Dr's office (a clinic operated by Vanderbilt Hospital) I was surprised when the nurse and doctor started complaining about the surgical tools they were being forced to use. The hospital changed to disposable stainless steel surgical tools (scissors, tweezers, hemostats, etc...). They said the they will open or go through 2-4 kits before they find one that works properly. All of the opened kits(tools) are then thrown away (unless the patient wants to keep them, like us! ;) ) into the bio-hazard container. I think they went through 2 kits (4 tools per kit) with my son.

The disposable are made in Pakistan and the good ones that are still used for surgery in the hospital and have to be sterilized and are reusable are made in Germany. They said that they have been told it is a cost savings to use the throwaways; I just can not see it.

Even the lower quality throwaways are better than what you can buy in most drug stores or a person would have in their home.

Steven Turetsky

07-30-2012, 07:11 AM

I agree.

I also agree with the many of those who feel that trying to blame a slow recovery on President Obama and NOT on the Republicans in congress TOO is being blind and untruthful. With the help of BOTH the Republicans and Democrats in congress working in conjunction WITH, not against, the president would likely have help with a faster recovery.

Does President Obama deserve any of the "blame"?
Or is he some pure and innocent "golden child" that had no idea what he was getting into when he became president?

Many Dems love to blame everything on George W. He was handed something that was unimaginable. Obama spent years blaming everything on Bush. I wanted to vomit every time he did that. Will anything ever be Obama's responsibility.

You keep blaming the Republicans. Is it only the Republicans that are to blame. The Dems screwed up plenty (or are they also pure?).

I think the word "blame" is a childish word.
I have always hated working where the "blame game" was practiced, and have always taught my children that it does not matter who is to blame. What matters is whose responsibility it is to fix. A great leader will find a way.

There is a difference between a hand out and a hand up.
We are becoming the hand out society. You would almost think that the president is a community activist.

Wait a moment, I almost forgot... the "rich" can pay for it.
Those damn rich!

And to all of you that are going through tough times, perhaps you should buy new televisions, computers, remodel your homes, repave your driveway and spend whatever other money you don't have. Use your credit cards. This seems to be the prescribed way of boosting an economy.

And it is not as simple as that, and there are NOT "always free clinics" - thus my reply.

Your last response almost sounds like you are backtracking on your previous response?

There is NO arguable reason this great country of ours cannot provide FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL.

There is no such thing as free for all. There is no such thing as free. Somebody has to pay for it.... wait a moment... I know... THOSE DAMN RICH!

Why does it have to be FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL? How about free healthcare for some, and lower priced healthcare for some others?

How about lowering costs of healthcare for all by stopping the waste?

Backtracking??? Not really. My NON TUNNEL VISION mindset is that while something had/has to be done, perhaps what was done was not the right thing. Perhaps some of what was done is good, and some is bad. Some of Obama is good and some is bad. Some of Bush is (was) good and some is (was) bad. Some of ASHI is good and some is bad. Some of INACHI is good, and some is bad.

Hey Jerry,
Does the Dems vs Reps debate remind you of the ASHI vs INACHI debate?

You got me started because your responses seemed SOOOOO one sided and blind to any shared responsibility.

Keep drinking the Koolaide!;)

Ted Menelly

07-30-2012, 07:33 AM

At this particular moment I do not have health care (rearanging). I moved my hand just quick enough for an attic hatch to just catch the edge of my index finger. Nothing more than a little owey. he next day is was slightly swollen, no big deal. The next morning I woke up in such pain that I thought my finger would explode from it swelling to twice its size.

Long story short some bacteria around the edge of the nail (everyone has it) caused the tremendous swelling from infection

So, I go to the doctors office. I wait for over an hour. I see the check in girl for a temp check and weight check, maybe a couple minutes. The doc comes in a half hour later and I see him for maybe a couple minutes. He recomends and xray before he stick a nife into the finger to relive pressure. It takes literally under 5 minutes getting to and taking the xray. I go ack to my room and wait for anothe twenty minutes. The docs comes in with cleaner and scalple and in about a total of a minute after he is in the room I get cut, the finger squeezed and wrapped and the doctor is gone.

Ha sanyone taken note of just how long I was in front of folks?

I am leaving ad stop to pay cash (dont want to bleed society).

$300.00

No paper work, follow up, accounting, billing, no getting only 60% of the total bill from the insurance company

$300.00 ?????????

Under a half hours time if that and ralistically half that for 300.00

The Antibiotics? enough for 4 times a day for 10 days? The most widely prescribed antibiotic that they sell multiple millions of per day......$100.00

So I now have a 400.00 finger. I could have cut myself to relive the pressure.

I asked the girl I was paying at the Doc office if that is what they charge the insurance company....."absolutely". Then if I am paying cash why arent I only pay theat 60% the insurance companies do. "We have to make up for it somewhere" True story.

No accounting, follow up, arguing with insurance companies, cash in hand, alll done, no worries and I have to pay more for my health care with cash in hand than the insurance companies do.

The antibiotics? Exact same story. Both are making up for their short comings because of the insurance companies.

First off. Way way way too expensive for health care and I don't ned to hear the stories about whhy it is so expensive. All those reasons are because those reasons are way to expensive.

I was in the hospital a couple years ago. different story. That weeks stay would have cost almost 60,000.00 if I had health care. As it was I think the total was 15,000.00. Even at 15,000.00 it was way way way too expensive.

My razor blades compared to a couple a years ago....doubled.

I am quite certain that those folks makeing the razor blades are not getting paid twice as much. But of course they are just laborers so why would they get paid twice as much????????

Perverted mentality today. Gotta take care of our investors? Maybe. Just maybe that is what is wrong today??? Ya think?

Scott Patterson

07-30-2012, 07:46 AM

Ted, I have lanced many a infected boils or cyst on cows over the years. Pretty nasty stuff comes spurting out of those things! Pocket knife and some betadine and tincture of Arnica works wonders! ;)

FYI, we have found that if you go to Wal-Mart that they have around 400+ meds that they sell for $4! We filled my sons antibiotic (augmentin) for his ear at WM for $4(Cash) and with our insurance at the drug store it was going to be $30 with our insurance co-pay!

Ted Menelly

07-30-2012, 08:35 AM

Dan Harris

07-30-2012, 08:52 AM

I don't have anything else to add, except I did click this web add to keep this site free/paid by someone else :D

http://www.medicaresupplemental.com/get-quotes/?CID=5150&SRC=mstal_google&bw_keyword=www.inspectionnews.net&Sub_ID=www.inspectionnews.net&bw_state=Arizona&bw_state_abbrev=AZ&bw_type=medicare+supplemental&gclid=CIS_keDfwbECFQxshwod90QANA

Corn Walker

07-30-2012, 09:10 AM

That was wally world. I asked. about the 4 d.ollars. It did not exist. For one of the most popular antibiotics around.

Which antibiotic was it?

At the pharmacy, a course of penicillin is $5.56 paid by insurance, $1.00 copay to me. If I wanted to pay out of pocket? $38.12

Insurance companies are able to negotiate the price down. You, as a single consumer? Not so much. You can tell them you want to pay the insurance rate - in fact I'd recommend it. There's nothing that says you have to pay the ridiculous 1000% markup on the drug. Sometimes it works to haggle, sometimes it doesn't.

Now strangely enough in the Medicare Part D legislation, the HHS was forbidden from negotiating drug prices with pharmaceutical companies. The one cost control they could possibly have added to the legislation, and the Republicans in Congress wouldn't allow it (check the votes on the proposed amendment if you don't remember).

The same is true of Obamacare. Republicans and "Blue Dog" Democrats thwarted nearly every attempt to introduce cost controls, because they conflicted with the special interest money they'd received. I point this out not to say that Democrats are somehow better or more noble, but only that on this particular issue of reducing health care costs to consumers, the Republicans were the ones who were more interested in protecting profits for insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and other providers. This should surprise no one.

Ted Menelly

07-30-2012, 09:35 AM

This whole thing about everybody must pay for insurance to keep insurance cost down. Absolutely absurd that will never happen insurance rate so are we just continue to climb. As far as those folks that don't pay for insurance guess what we're already paying for it now we're paying for infull all the time 24 47. The eye dear that does it didn't pay work driving a car sup bro it was already there. The eye dear that is acceptable to say insurance companies negotiate price. Absolute bull. The doctors and hospitals just continues to charge more because of person is they are getting paid is less every year. Insurance is the absolute number one factor why medical costs continue to rise
That and taking care of. Investors

Scott Patterson

07-30-2012, 02:39 PM

The doctors and hospitals just continues to charge more because of person is they are getting paid is less every year. Insurance is the absolute number one factor why medical costs continue to rise
That and taking care of. Investors

I do not think anyone can argue with this, but then I'm sure some will attempt!

Steven Turetsky

07-30-2012, 03:01 PM

I do not think anyone can argue with this, but then I'm sure some will attempt!
The doctors and hospitals just continues to charge more because of person is they are getting paid is less every year.

You're right !:confused:

Corn Walker

07-30-2012, 03:20 PM

I do not think anyone can argue with this, but then I'm sure some will attempt!

I'll make a go of it. :p

Except I agree, sorta. The current structure of insurance is the problem, not the existence of insurance in general. The way we arrived at our current system of employer-provided health insurance was mostly by accident. No one planned on tying your health and well-being to your being gainfully employed, but that's how it happened here. As it turns out, this is a terrible way to go.

As for costs, it's a combination of employer-provided insurance and the tax code. Currently health insurance premiums are tax-deductible. That means as an employer, I can provide my employees with a "Cadillac" health insurance plan and it's treated as non-taxable compensation. I can offer tax-free "café" plans that will even cover your deductibles that would otherwise come out of pocket (although there's an element of risk here, as café plans are use-it-or-lose-it).

All of this puts the consumer at some remove from the services they're consuming. I don't know how much an MRI costs, so if my doctor says it's an option I say "do it" rather than "How much will it cost me? Maybe the CAT is just as good and $1000 cheaper."

I see two solutions to this problem.
1) Make everyone pay out of pocket.
This would be absolutely horrid, as it means your ability to be healthy will be solely a function of luck. Either you're born rich, or were lucky enough to have been presented the right opportunities. Everyone else can die in the gutter.

2) Single-payer
With the Government as the sole insurer, our health is no longer tied to our employment. With the power to negotiate prices, and determine which therapies are effective, a Medicare-for-all type system is by far the most likely to bring down costs. And medicare is very lean; look at the overhead for Medicare compared to private insurance programs. And while we hear the occasional story of fraud, Medicare actually has one of the lowest fraud rates.

One other thing not to forget. In today's securitized age, insurance companies are now financial services companies. They use your premiums to gamble in the stock market rather than provide better service or value. That's not how Medicare operates - a single-payer system is exactly the type of insurance we need.

But that still doesn't deal with the consumer's remove from seeing the cost of services. I think we can better handle that with a sliding-scale of co-payments. By tying co-payments to income (or better yet, an assets test but that's a pipe dream) you can make it cost just enough to make patients think twice before requesting unnecessary services or procedures.

Hank Spinnler

07-30-2012, 05:07 PM

Tim Hawkins says it better than I can: Tim Hawkins - The Government Can - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0)

Jerry Peck

07-30-2012, 05:50 PM

FREE HEALTHCARE is NOT FREE. Someone Must Pay The Tab.

Yep, just like buy one get one free ... someone pays, but it is still called "buy one, get one free".

OF COURSE someone has to pay for ... WE ALL pay for it, at less than, or about the same as, we pay now, only more people are "paying for it" so the cost each is reduced.

Jeez, Billy, you drive on the ROAD FREE, and probably do so every day, do you complain about that too? SOMEONE HAS TO PAY for it, and it is not all covered by the cost of the license plate fees (TAX) we pay.

You drive on the roads for FREE.

You walk on the sidewalks for FREE.

You stroll through the park, or play ball with the kids in the park for FREE.

You ... (the list is almost endless) ... so why not have healthcare available for FREE?

Yeppers, somebody got to pay for all those freebies, by I don't hear you a bitchin' about those other FREE things. :rolleyes:

Corn Walker

07-30-2012, 06:17 PM

You drive on the roads for FREE.

You walk on the sidewalks for FREE.

You stroll through the park, or play ball with the kids in the park for FREE.

You ... (the list is almost endless) ... so why not have healthcare available for FREE?

Yeppers, somebody got to pay for all those freebies, by I don't hear you a bitchin' about those other FREE things.

Healthcare isn't free like those other things because we have to pay taxes for healthcare. Oh, wait...

Ted Menelly

07-30-2012, 06:33 PM

everybodies health care is already paid for by someone else.

Every good, service etc one buys that is asspciated with a particular company is paying for their health care.

As far as all those unisured driving health care costs up??????????

Think again. Someone already paid for your now you were and even mre so now paying for theirs.

Is there really any differnence. And this is coming from a man that will also tell you that things have already gone way to far to pay for all the promises made.

That is another whole story.

As far as the old folks. We have to pay for them if they cannot afford it themselves........and a whole lot more periods. If they can afford it themselves then they are going to have to just suck it up and admit to themselves that all that money they paid in was already for someone else. It was never for you and me when we paid.

If you can afford then pay for it dam it. If you truly cannot then everyone else will have to. There is no simpler and direct thought about it.

Health care costs are way to high and they will never do anything but go up, period. Get rid of the insurance plans now as we know it and all those true geniuses out there figure out a real sustainable plan and we need to go for it.
Insurance costs are way too high for the medical profession but in the same thought the medical profession thinks way to highly of themselves just like most professionals out there.

No matter which side of the fence one sits on we can no longer think that we must make more every year. We must pay more for the goods and services every year. We must make more every year to pay for our goods and services every year. We must make more to pay for our goods and services that keep rising every year because we keep making more every year.

It wont work much longer.

Socialism as all think of it wont work either. Everyone on the bottom wants to make more and everyone on the top believes they are worth more than those on the bottom.

These cycles will and do detroy countries.

Billy Stephens

07-30-2012, 06:45 PM

Yep, just like buy one get one free ... someone pays, but it is still called "buy one, get one free".

OF COURSE someone has to pay for ... WE ALL pay for it, at less than, or about the same as, we pay now, only more people are "paying for it" so the cost each is reduced.

Jeez, Billy, you drive on the ROAD FREE, and probably do so every day, do you complain about that too? SOMEONE HAS TO PAY for it, and it is not all covered by the cost of the license plate fees (TAX) we pay.

You drive on the roads for FREE.
Gas Tax, Wheel Tax, Tolls :rolleyes:.

You walk on the sidewalks for FREE.

You stroll through the park, or play ball with the kids in the park for FREE.

You ... (the list is almost endless) ... so why not have healthcare available for FREE?

Yeppers, somebody got to pay for all those freebies, by I don't hear you a bitchin' about those other FREE things. :rolleyes:
.

Yeppers The List is Almost Endless! :eek:
Property Tax, City, County, State, Income Tax, Sale Tax, Usage Tax and USC : Title 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE | LII / Legal Information Institute (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26)
.
What Planet Do You Live On?

Jerry Peck

07-30-2012, 06:57 PM

Property Tax, City, County, State, Income Tax, Sale Tax, Usage Tax and USC : Title 26 - INTERNAL REVENUE CODE | LII / Legal Information Institute (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26)
.
What Planet Do You Live On?

Gotcha!

Precisely my point.

Thus, there is NO REASON that this great country of ours cannot also provide FREE HEALTHCARE (just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).

Billy Stephens

07-30-2012, 07:08 PM

Gotcha!

Precisely my point.

Thus, there is NO REASON that this great country of ours cannot also provide FREE HEALTHCARE (just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).
.
Spoken Like a True Government Employee FREE MONEY !!! :confused:

If Taxes are Free I'll send ya some of mine. Thank You.:p
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You Haven't Been Listening. :mad:
.

Hank Spinnler

07-30-2012, 07:27 PM

I am devouring and trying to learn from DrRich's theory: A Theory of Progressive Thought, Progressivism and Obamacare (http://covertrationingblog.com/general-rationing-issues/drrichs-theory-of-progressive-thought)

An excerpt:

"By slowly re-interpreting the Constitution, and slowly addicting a critical mass of Americans to an array of government programs, Progressives are certain they will ultimately prevail. They have been at it for over 100 years, and have come a long way. DrRich cannot tell whether or not we have already passed the Event Horizon, the point beyond which restoring the Great American Experiment will become impossible. But we are at least very close."

Jerry Peck

07-30-2012, 07:49 PM

(just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).

You Haven't Been Listening. :mad:

You haven't been reading what has been written. :mad:

Steven Turetsky

07-30-2012, 09:05 PM

Since NOTHING is free, perhaps instead of calling it "free healthcare", we should call it "healthcare that someone else is paying for".

I don't have a problem helping those that are simply unable to make it without a little help, but I do have a problem with people that are playing the system.

We talk about free healthcare as if it is the only entitlement that exists... as if everything else is hunky dory, and all that is being asked for is health coverage. If that were so, it would be easy. It is the whole system that stinks.

If someone is employed and just needs a little help, well so be it. This past week I was in landlord tenant court with a tenant that simply does not want to pay ANY rent... zilch. She also wants free health care, food stamps, free utilities, etc.

They say G-D helps those that help themselves. If that is so (or reasonable), why should society care more about her than she cares about herself. Or maybe she cares about herself but is just too lazy to work... at all. Why should she be entitled to anything? Why shouldn't she be on the street? Maybe if she knew she was going to be on the street, she would get off her ass.

I think that if someone is unable to find a job and wants someone else to pay their way, they should have to enter some type of job training program. Even if it is not a glamorous job, everyone should have to carry at least some of their own weight.

I know of those that are milking unemployment, stating they cannot find a job within their field, or within the pay scale they desire. well maybe they should change fields. (they could become Home Inspectors). Or maybe they should work for less pay, so at least they would need less assistance.

Many out of work people on Unemployment collect checks and have jobs off the books at the same time.

Garry Sorrells

07-31-2012, 07:11 AM

Ever think about that those in Congress, the President and the Supreme Court (our three branches) make the laws for all but them selves. They have no concern for the cost of insurance since they do not pay for it, we pay it for them. As their expenses rise they just raise the revenue source (taxes). Though they seem to be able not to conform to the same tax laws that we all fear. Even though they write the law.

We pay for the First Lady to vacation with her friends in Spain and in the Vineyards and she is sure that she is entitled to it. Why? Its FREE and she is ENTITLED because of hubbies job.

When the House was controlled by the Dem party they had the ability to do as they wished with any restraint. Then oddly enough on the nest election they lost control because the people did not like what they were doing. Yet, no mater what, it is always someone other than themselves fault. The house changed as a direct result of the passing of The Health Care Act. Now its the evil ones that are attempting to reverse what has been done and its still Bush's fault. How about taking responsibility for raming through a law that the majority do not want. How about making the legislators responsible for their actions. Dem controlled committees created the ability for lenders to go hog wild in their lending practices and creation of the derivative markets. But it is Bush's fault.

A trip to the doctor that is billed out at $300 and the patient only had 15 mins with the doctor is excessive in the same way that a home inspection billed at $100 to $150+ per hour is not excessive. If the doctor is wrong he is sued for millions. If an inspector is wrong he is sued for a few thousand. Not to mention the general overhead of operating a medical practice. The doc is getting rich and the inspector is poor as dirt.

Just received a billing statement for my wife from the insurance company. Dock billed $369 and Insurance reduced it to $126 plus a $35 co-pay. Doc made $156 for 30 min evaluation and consultation. Which demonstrates that there is a problem with the system. But it is the system which creates the problem. If the Doc did not bill for $369 then the rates that the Insurance Co use to discount from normal billing would not be there and the Insurance company could not demonstrate how they are saving the insured money with the policy. Medicare and Medicaid work much in the same manor. Ted if you wanted to dicker the bill down you could have. You could have asked what the cost was before you had the service. But for some reason people do not ask the costs before service at the doctor, though they demand it for almost every other service they receive.

No business is created by an individual it is built on the backs of the worker. Sound a little socialistic? The excesses of the few are deserved by the many no mater what their contribution was.

Here is an Idea. Members of the three branches receive $30K / yr and med benefits and nothing else. 2 term limit. If they break the lay they go to jail with mandatory sentences. Restore the concept of service to the government and the people. A apposed to being in the goverment and being serviced by the people.

The Health Care issue is the beginning of the new order. Long live the King....

Billy Stephens

07-31-2012, 08:08 AM

You haven't been reading what has been written. :mad:
.
You be writing and I be reading. :D You keep saying FREE but "someone" is paying.

Just Who are these someones?
.

Jerry Peck

07-31-2012, 04:17 PM

Since NOTHING is free, perhaps instead of calling it "free healthcare", we should call it "healthcare that someone else is paying for".

Actually, that is why it is called the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act". :)

*I* am paying for others to drive on the roads, and, at the same time, *they* are paying for me to drive on the roads.

It works that way all the way up and down all things provided or required by the government, whether that be the local yokels, the county mounties, the state or the feds. :)

Jerry Peck

07-31-2012, 04:21 PM

You be writing and I be reading. :D You keep saying FREE but "someone" is paying.

By your own admission, and your post above, you have shown that you have 'not' been reading, or, maybe you were reading and just not comprehending? (I prefer to think you were just not reading as I am sure you are smart enough to comprehend it - unlike Ken Rowe in that other post and exchange about his reading and comprehension skills, or lack thereof.)

I will make it bold and red for you to make it easier to read, how about blue instead of red:

(just like those other things are provided for FREE, yeah, I know, someone pays for it, but, like I said, I don't hear you bitchin' about those other things).

*I've* been writing it ... *you* haven't been reading it. :p

Hank Spinnler

07-31-2012, 04:22 PM

Actually, that is why it is called the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act". :)

I have and will always refer to this unilateral edict as "Obamacare"

Jerry Peck

07-31-2012, 04:40 PM

I have and will always refer to this unilateral edict as "Obamacare"

Even though Romney created it in and for his state when he was governor?

I would think that Republicans, who are backing Romney, would want to take credit for this vast improvement over what the country had before Romneycare took effect. :p

Gosh, this has been fun, but I dislike political arguments as the best thing for the country is to work together and not fight each other.

That said, one party is currently trying to force their religion and their like on the rest of the country (the Republicans) while the other party is currently trying to be inclusive and promote tolerance for all (the Democrats).

The Republicans went to war to try to stop Iraq from becoming a religious state (because the religious state was not to their liking), yet they want this country to become a religious state (as long as all believe as they believe). :rolleyes: :eek:

Oh well, I will wait to see the outcries the above causes, but I will wait awhile and stay out of the fray and just not check this thread for a while so I can get a bigger picture of who says what ... :D :p

Billy Stephens

07-31-2012, 05:41 PM

By your own admission, and your post above, you have shown that you have 'not' been reading, or, maybe you were reading and just not comprehending? (I prefer to think you were just not reading as I am sure you are smart enough to comprehend it - unlike Ken Rowe in that other post and exchange about his reading and comprehension skills, or lack thereof.)

I will make it bold and red for you to make it easier to read, how about blue instead of red:

*I've* been writing it ... *you* haven't been reading it. :p
.
Please Get a Clue.
The Highway System was built for National Defense to facilitate the movement of the Nations Military needs. Not for Truckers ,not so the public could go see Grandma or to the beach.
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Steven Turetsky

07-31-2012, 05:42 PM

Even though Romney created it in and for his state when he was governor?

I would think that Republicans, who are backing Romney, would want to take credit for this vast improvement over what the country had before Romneycare took effect.

Gosh, this has been fun, but I dislike political arguments as the best thing for the country is to work together and not fight each other.

That said, one party is currently trying to force their religion and their like on the rest of the country (the Republicans) while the other party is currently trying to be inclusive and promote tolerance for all (the Democrats).

The Republicans went to war to try to stop Iraq from becoming a religious state (because the religious state was not to their liking), yet they want this country to become a religious state (as long as all believe as they believe). :rolleyes: :eek:

Oh well, I will wait to see the outcries the above causes, but I will wait awhile and stay out of the fray and just not check this thread for a while so I can get a bigger picture of who says what ... :D :p

Jerry,

Please tell me you are joking, and trying to get everyone's goat. :o

What I find intriguing is the way you paint Dems as so pure and good and Reps as evil and bad. Don't you believe there is good and bad in both?

Jerry, ya gotta lay off the Koolaid.

Do you think with the economy the way it is/was, the country can or should be spending and spending and spending more and more and more? Geesh! There, I said it and I'll say it again... GEESH!!!
Is there ever a limit? Where does the money come from? Borrow from China? Remember that? We were being taken over, we were being owned. Wait... I got it, The RICH, the rich.... the rich..... (do you hear the drums?). Get out the f_ _ _ _ _ _ g pitchforks mama, we're going hunting tonight!

I do bitch about the roads, and the sidewalk, and the police, and schools, and gas and tolls, parts and materials. Now you want more? How much more? You have a better chance at getting sex.

The pres says we all have to tighten our belts and do our parts. Shouldn't he have to tighten his belt too? Shouldn't he? Shouldn't he? He spends money like a drunk sailor on shore leave!

Then they turn around and raise the bridge from $8 to $12. SO does tighten my belt translate into "I should have to have less to do more, so I can give the gov't more, so they can do less.

I don't remember where I heard it, but I remember a talking head saying something like every $50,000 job cost $200,000.

Hank Spinnler

07-31-2012, 06:09 PM

Even though Romney created it in and for his state when he was governor?

I would think that Republicans, who are backing Romney, would want to take credit for this vast improvement over what the country had before Romneycare took effect. :p

Gosh, this has been fun, but I dislike political arguments as the best thing for the country is to work together and not fight each other.

That said, one party is currently trying to force their religion and their like on the rest of the country (the Republicans) while the other party is currently trying to be inclusive and promote tolerance for all (the Democrats).

The Republicans went to war to try to stop Iraq from becoming a religious state (because the religious state was not to their liking), yet they want this country to become a religious state (as long as all believe as they believe). :rolleyes: :eek:

Oh well, I will wait to see the outcries the above causes, but I will wait awhile and stay out of the fray and just not check this thread for a while so I can get a bigger picture of who says what ... :D :p

Romney vows to repeal Obamacare on Day 1 in office. He has said that decisions concerning healthcare should be made on a state and not a national level. I believe we must return to the basics and limit the role of government as set forth in The Constitution.

The other party is doing nothing to be "inclusive" because their leader continues to feed on and promote "divisiveness". Liberals and their fallacious ideology of tolerance is an empty concept because they are not tolerant of opposing views. That is because critical thinking, individualism and personal Liberty is against the Progressive agenda. Jerry, when in your lifetime has the country ever been more politically divided? Please don't say Bush because it wasn't even that bad during the Gore vs. Bush election.

Garry Sorrells

07-31-2012, 06:32 PM

Hank Spinnler

07-31-2012, 06:41 PM

Steve & Hank,
Can you say Cum By Ya.............

I can agree with Jerry and the concept that we all should get along and cooperate for the betterment of all,,,,, so long as you go along with what I want to do. Why? I know what is best for everyone else and my way is the right way.....and your way is evil.....

Bill Clinton was able to balance the budget despite the fact that the Rep controlled both houses and made him do it. Now that was working together.

Sorry that Jerry has a hard time with political discourse, he is usually so tolerant to diverse opinions. Hope the blood pressure goes down....

I know Jerry is a good guy so it's nothing personal. Jerry has helped me answer code related questions in the past and I appreciate him.

I thought about bringing up Clinton because at least he had to come closer to the center with Newt and Reps in the House back in the 90's. His administration likely produced a budget and at the end of the term, a "surplus". (At least on paper as some had said.) The stock market was doing better back then. This helped build a nest egg for my relatives.

Does anyone feel very confident about their retirement program, 401K, SEP, IRA or position in the stock market now? As we continue to print money, avoid addressing inflation, run up national debt and stick our heads in the sand? I am a proud small business owner. I left the corporate world 10 years ago. I never worked for a municipality and I don't have a pension. That's why my idea of "hope & change" is the exact opposite of theirs.

Rick Cantrell

07-31-2012, 06:44 PM

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

Garry Sorrells

08-01-2012, 03:27 AM

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

The problem is that to many in our society do not want to get dirty.
It is easier to blame someone else.
It is easier to allow someone else to do it for you. Not my responsibility.
The mantra of don't stop nor get involved its not my problem is to wide spread.
The mind set of if I do not obtain an immediate benefit it is not worth my time.
Being an isolationist country only serves to empower others and in the end we will get involved. With a higher cost for lack decisive action.

It is interesting that this thread has carried on so long. I have a hope that the facts introduce are actually considered rather than having mental lock jaw.