Wondering what kind of exterior I have, and how to patch it

[Chris Moore]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of exterior I have on our house so that I can figure out the right way to patch some holes - and secondarily, the right way to attach something like a hose reel to the wall.

The house is in the area of Sacramento, CA, and was built around 1998 by US Homes. Looking at the hole, from the outside in, this is what I see:
about 1/2" of what looks to me like stucco.
a layer of "chicken wire"
about a 1" layer of something that looks like styrofoam
a layer of some kind of black building paper
about 3-1/2" of space
then something solid - possibly the interior drywall

I'm not an expert on this stuff by any means, just a homeowner. The foam layer sounds sort of like some of the descriptions I've seen of EIFS, but the rest doesn't sound like it.

Can anyone tell from that description what the material is, and how I would go about patching it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Chris

[scott brown]

I would really like to be accurate with a reply, any way you could post a photo. I am a Certified EIFS/Stucco inspector. There is a type of EIFS that uses metal mesh a PM system.
True stucco does not have a EPS foam or styrofoam material which is the insulation of the system. Black tar paper is typical for an underlayment.
Is the drywall material a yellow color?
And lastly, how thick is the foam itself?

[Chris Moore]

I would really like to be accurate with a reply, any way you could post a photo. I am a Certified EIFS/Stucco inspector. There is a type of EIFS that uses metal mesh a PM system.
True stucco does not have a EPS foam or styrofoam material which is the insulation of the system. Black tar paper is typical for an underlayment.
Is the drywall material a yellow color?
And lastly, how thick is the foam itself?

Thanks for the quick reply. I've attached a few photos of the hole, I hope that helps.
I can't tell the color of the drywall material, but I was able to push in a long drill bit and give it a few gentle turns. It didn't meet resistance like OSB or plywood, so it's not hitting wood. When I pulled it out it had white dust on it, so I'm pretty sure it's hitting drywall.
The foam is about 1" thick.

This particular wall is a garage exterior wall. I assume if I had the same hole in a different part of the exterior, part of the living part of the house, I'd find insulation between the foam and the drywall.

Chris

[John Kogel]

Before closing up the hole, locate the studs either side with a piece of stiff wire. Attach the hose reel to a nice pair of painted planks or a sheet of plywood, not OSB, which is screwed to the studs.

It will be tricky to match the color of your patch, but it can be done if you bring a small chunk of the plaster to the paint store.

As far as how to patch, hopefully someone here knows of a good product that can be tinted and plastered in. I'd fill the hole in the foam with Great Stuff, canned spray foam, but I'm no expert.

[Kristi Silber]

Wow, that's crazy! All that's supporting that is 1" of styrofoam and chicken wire?! And the styrofoam is between the building paper and the wire? Is there a gap between the siding and the ground? I wouldn't be letting any kids bounce their balls off the side of the house if I were you. I'm interested to hear what others more knowledgable about this stuff say.

[Darrel Hood]

Whether it is "real" stucco or fake stucco, there is no good way to attach anything to the wall. Any penetration is a source for moisture entry, a recurring maintenance task and a place for a crack to start. Don't hang hose reels, planter pots, thermometers or anything else from stucco.

From the pictures, it looks like the house is sheathed with styrofoam, then standard stucco techniques were used to apply the finish.

[scott brown]

This is a mixed system. EPS foam is attached to the sheathing (fasteners or adhesive) the actual strength of the system is the base coat which is a cementuous product. A cross breed system is part EIFS and part "real" stucco. The EPS foam is the insulation for the outside walls, then the mesh and true cementuous stucco on the exterior.
A patch to the system is basically repaired like cement/concrete. The hole is made bigger, mesh needs repaired of patched as well.
So...you have a mixed system, EIFS and traditional stucco. The system is actually as strong as bricks (sometimes stonger) if it is maintained and kept water tight.
Scott Brown,
Certified EIFS/Stucco Inspector
Certified Water Intrusion Analyst

[Darrel Hood]

Note the emphasis in Scott's statement to keep it water tight.

[Chris Moore]

Thanks for all the great replies, this has been a huge help.
If I understand correctly it sounds like I need to enlarge the hole so that I can tie in some new lath, then patch the stucco itself. I'm guessing that for a hole this size (about 2") I can get a small amount of stucco patch.

Then, when it comes time to re-attach things to the wall, it sounds like the best bet is to put up a backer board that spans studs and attach things to that.

Thanks,

Chris

[Darrel Hood]

Chris,
The best bet is, "don't."

[Chris Moore]

Chris,
The best bet is, "don't."

Well, yeah, I suppose I can avoid it where possible. But there are some things I don't think I can avoid. Downspouts, the place where the fence meets the house, the exterior lights. And I could probably get a ground mounted hose reel, but the wall mounted one is so much better and more convenient.

But I do understand your point - avoid penetrating the exterior wall whenever possible.

Thanks,

Chris

[Jerry Peck]

Well, yeah, I suppose I can avoid it where possible. But there are some things I don't think I can avoid. Downspouts, the place where the fence meets the house, the exterior lights.

Chris,

For the downspouts, anchor a board the length of the downspout to the foundation wall below that wall system and to the top of the wall under the soffit where water is least likely to get, or to the underside of the soffit, then anchor the downspout to that board. No holes in the wall that way.

For where the fence meets the house, install another post and don't attach it to the house.

The exterior lights are, hopefully, mounted on boxes which were properly installed for that wall system and extend out to the surface of the wall.

I've never seen a wall system use chicken wire (which is what that looks like) for the wall system, and I haven't seen an EIFS with 1/2" stucco applied over the it either.

[Steven Turetsky]

Because there is EXTERIOR INSULATION; it is EIFS.

It is not polymer based, which is what we are used to seeing, but it is EIFS nevertheless. The chicken wire was (is) a technique that is/was used to apply sandbased stucco over EPS.

As far as mounting something; it would be best if you could locate studs. If not, screwing into the sheathing may be strong enough (depends what you are attaching). You should put sleeves over the bolts/screws in order to avoid compressing the stucco.

In areas that need small patches, just go ahead and patch with cement. I would use something like Structolite. For something small, I would worry about patching the chicken wire.

You are going to have cold patches showing, don't worry about it. Someday you can paint the entire house.

[Joseph Ehrhardt]

1998 they were still free style and un checked with stucco, even for a builder like US Homes.Thats 14 years ago and they could experiment with anything, especially in California. I was just out visiting a friend of mine north west of you in Layton for 2 weeks, theres a lot of organic building up there, his ranch is a post and beam redwood from the 60's. nieghbor has a earth home, a lot of free style of materials. 1998 was still experimenting with a lot of stuff.
I have never come across that size chicken wire, but the small stuff like my attached photo I have found. This building stucco was 18 years, people were not that educated ot savy to inspect or inquire what and how stucco was going to be installed.

[Robert Ernst]

Looks like what's called Traditional Stucco over EPS. They use the EPS as a thermal break and added insulation. That stucco lath looks common for the area. As for attaching anything they do sell stucco screws at HD they are like Tapcons. Use sealant.

[John Carroll]

Here are two ESR reports for what you have. Many hours have been wasted trying to educate the masses about this. Not going there anymore...

[Chris Moore]

Thanks to everyone for all the great help. I patched the holes by first spraying in some expanding foam, then using Quikrete stucco patch. The only thing left is to paint to match the house color and I think the patch won't even be visible.