Innocence of Muslims Trailer "Egypt Protest Movie"

[Raymond Wand]

Here is the trailer which is causing all the fuss.

And to think Iran is on the verge of having a working nuclear bomb.

Innocence of Muslims Trailer "Egypt Protest Movie"

Innocence of Muslims Trailer "Egypt Protest Movie" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6lcJxmdqWM&feature=youtu.be)

[Jerry Peck]

I'm not sure what that is all about, but there certainly is no reason to post it here.

[Raymond Wand]

Are you not aware of the events unfolding and what has been the result?

[Steven Turetsky]

Regardless of the trailer or its contents, or even its place within this forum, it is terrible to think that people are being killed because of it.

Yesterday was the anniversary of 9/11 (as we all know). I spent he day sobbing (sporadically) while listening to the Reading of the Names.

While I absolutely to not condemn the Islamic faith as a whole for 9/11, I curse the perpetrators of this crime and other similar crimes. I hope they spend eternity wrapped in pig.

[Aaron Miller]

Alex Jones - Hijacking Catastrophe 9/11 - Full - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9YAGjapIhM)

[Billy Stephens]

Are you not aware of the events unfolding and what has been the result?

Just an excuse to promote their political agenda.

[Raymond Wand]

Billy

Whose agenda, the Republicans or the Muslims, or both?

[Billy Stephens]

Billy

Whose agenda, the Republicans or the Muslims, or both?
.
As I see you still live in Canada may I suggest your political commentary is miss placed.
Eh :rolleyes:

[Raymond Wand]

Stuck for an answer I see. So much for enlightenment.

You never disappoint. :p

[Billy Stephens]

Stuck for an answer I see. So much for enlightenment.

You never disappoint. :p
.
As your just trying to Stir The Pot can't you find something else to amuse yourself with?
* you seem to enjoy the excision of our 1st Amendment Right.
**perhaps you could head out to the shooting range and exercise your 2nd Amendment Rights.

[Raymond Wand]

.
As your just trying to Stir The Pot can't you find something else to amuse yourself with?
* you seem to enjoy the excision of our 1st Amendment Right.
**perhaps you could head out to the shooting range and exercise your 2nd Amendment Rights.

:D :p Excision, okay Bubba.

[Scott Patterson]

It is just sad that Americans were killed for being, well Americans. The only agenda they had was to live and that was taken from them by radical individuals who hate anyone who do not not share their beliefs.

[Billy Stephens]

:D :p Excision, okay Bubba.
.
"an editor's deletions frequently upset young authors", "
*must everything be explained to you ?
** have a Good Night doing whatever it is that you enjoy.

[Raymond Wand]

Anyone who told you to be yourself couldn't have given you worse advice. :D

[Jerry Peck]

It is just sad that Americans were killed for being, well Americans. The only agenda they had was to live and that was taken from them by radical individuals who hate anyone who do not not share their beliefs.

Don't go blaming religious beliefs on any of that stuff ...

Think back to Oklahoma City and the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

Good Ol' American Boys, huh?

Don't forget those 'Good Ol' American Boys' when blaming "terrorists" for that stuff.

[Billy Stephens]

Anyone who told you to be yourself couldn't have given you worse advice. :D
.
Yes Dear. :rolleyes:

[Michael Thomas]

"The only agenda they had was to live and that was taken from them by radical individuals who hate anyone who do not not share their beliefs."

Well... in this case, by people hating by other people because some of the "other people" were very publicly mocking their beliefs, and proud of it.

No excuse, but not the same thing as hating people for "not sharing their beliefs", either.

As has just been demonstrated, this sort of calculated insult to other peoples gods can have very real consequences, and IMO it's worth asking what it's worth to protect this sort of speech, when it's clearly counterproductive when it comes to protecting US citizens both at home and abroad.

For example, some of the people this film is winding up still tighter live in a country with nuclear weapons under the control of a military riddled with Islamic fundamentalists.

Do we really want to stir that pot any more than we actually need to?

I sure don't.

[Billy Stephens]

Michael,

You cannot negotiate with someone who wants to kill you.
You cannot reason with a Policy of your own Eradication ( ask someone who lived in Europe during the 1930,40s.)

[Raymond Wand]

The Rise of Muslim Fundamentalism

by Daniel Pipes
St. Louis Post Dispatch
August 22, 1984

The Rise of Muslim Fundamentalism :: Daniel Pipes (http://www.danielpipes.org/5327/the-rise-of-muslim-fundamentalism)

[Michael Thomas]

No, you can't reason with the irrational.

But that's no reason to walk into a Biker bar, and start making fun of someone's tattoos.

Sure, you have the *right* to say what you want about those tattoos.

But don't be surprised if you end up with problems you didn't *have* to have as a result.

Same thing when it comes to mocking other peoples gods.

[Garry Blankenship]

Religion & politics are dangerous topics and probably do not belong here, but General Chit Chat pretty much opens all doors. One commonality I have noticed in both is so many believe they have a monopoly on "the correct" spiritual path and/or righteousness. If religions are not the worst of all businesses, they must be a close second.

[Joseph Hagarty]

Absent the English accents...
looks like the trailer of a bad Monty Python Comedy skit from the 70's....

and an Ambassador was killed over this?

[Steven Turetsky]

No, you can't reason with the irrational.

But that's no reason to walk into a Biker bar, and start making fun of someone's tattoos.

Sure, you have the *right* to say what you want about those tattoos.

But don't be surprised if you end up with problems you didn't *have* to have as a result.

Same thing when it comes to mocking other peoples gods.

Except they didn't kill the one(s) who were mocking.

[Michael Thomas]

"Except they didn't kill the one(s) who were mocking."

The movie mocks all of Islam, "we" are letting some of "us" mock "them".

So "rational" or not, it's hardly surprising that some Muslims consider all of "us" - Christian and secular, liberal and conservative alike - as detestable blasphemers, a crime punishable by death some in some Islamic cultures.

And you don't have to agree with their opinion to predict the likely effect of "our" insulting them wholesale: many of "them" are going to feel the same way about us.

So IMO the most useful question in this case is not "Does Islam deserve the insult?", or "Legally, do individuals and groups in non-Islamic countries have the right to do insult the Islamic religion and its followers in ways certain to enrage them?".

The most useful question IMO is "Is insulting every Muslim on the planet a smart thing to do?"

Do we really want to give some Pakistani IIS officer even more reasons to want to divert a fully functional nuclear device to al-Qaeda?

This does not seem like a smart move to me.

___________________

Also, there is a whole lot we don't yet know about this attack, for example:

- We don't yet know if the attack on the diplomats was a result of more-or-less spontaneous mob action fueled by outrage over the movie, of if some smaller group took advantage of the same public outrage to exploit the situation and undertake a previously planned attack.

If the latter, the killers successfully targeted exactly who they wished to.

- We don't even know for certain who produced the movie, or their actual motives, or who translated and posted it, or who was responsible for promoting it once posted in *any* language. (For example it appears that Coptic Orthodox groups in the US were largely responsible for the latter.)

It may be the case that we are getting "played" by the creators and promoters of this movie and/or the groups using it to gin up anti-US sentiment in ways we do not yet fully suspect or understand.

It worries me, for example, that some politicians were ready to jump on this for immediate political advantage before it was even clear what had actually happened - that was a stupid and impulsive thing to do, and I do not want to be ruled by stupid and impulsive people.

[Aaron Miller]

Don't go blaming religious beliefs on any of that stuff ...

Think back to Oklahoma City and the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

Good Ol' American Boys, huh?

Don't forget those 'Good Ol' American Boys' when blaming "terrorists" for that stuff.

Spot on. Common experience dictates that one must follow the money when searching for reasons in cases like this. Who stood to gain the most? Perhaps the military-industrial complex? They are in the business of profiting from war. When war is scarce it behooves them to insure more war. Think: Boeing, Raytheon, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman, United Technologies, L3 Communications, Finmeccanica, EADS, just to mention the biggest players. The combined income of just the corporations likely to gain exceeds the total of all Middle Eastern countries, religious factions, or entities that might be falsely accused of unilateral action.

And yet, the sheep fail to notice what is right in front of their faces.

God bless America, Land of the Knaves.

[Raymond Wand]

Well... the Genie is out of the bottle.

Besides the world is suppose to end on Dec. 21, 2012.

[John Ghent]

The Rise of Muslim Fundamentalism

by Daniel Pipes
St. Louis Post Dispatch
August 22, 1984

The Rise of Muslim Fundamentalism :: Daniel Pipes (http://www.danielpipes.org/5327/the-rise-of-muslim-fundamentalism)

Very intelligently laid out piece of reporting. Should be a must read for politicians.

[Billy Stephens]

"

"Is insulting every Muslim on the planet a smart thing to do?"

This does not seem like a smart move to me..

Your lifestyle and act of breathing is Insult enough.

[wayne soper]

Billy, I am surprized you have not started calling me "GAFORE" yet hahahaheeeehaw

[Billy Stephens]

Billy, I am surprized you have not started calling me "GAFORE" yet hahahaheeeehaw

Hey My Friend.
* just don't make light of "The King" and you'll be fine.;)

[wayne soper]

yeah, you got that right!!
long live the king!!

[Jerry Peck]

yeah, you got that right!!
long live the king!!

You mean that fat guy with the guitar in the tight white stretch suit? :p

Long live THE KING! Thank you ... thank you very much ... :D

In my area, Ormond Beach is right next to Daytona Beach, "THE KING" would be 'King Richard Petty'. :D

[John Ghent]

Meanwhile, (sorry elvis) back to topic.

APNewsBreak: US identifies anti-Muslim filmmaker - Yahoo! Movies (http://movies.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbreak-us-identifies-anti-muslim-filmmaker-144325233.html)

[Billy Stephens]

You mean that fat guy with the guitar in the tight white stretch suit? :p

Long live THE KING! Thank you ... thank you very much ... :D

In my area, Ormond Beach is right next to Daytona Beach, "THE KING" would be 'King Richard Petty'. :D
.
Nope This King BBC News - Thai king pardons US man jailed for royal insult (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18792430) ( Wayne spends the winters in Thailand.
.

[Jerry Peck]

.
Nope This King BBC News - Thai king pardons US man jailed for royal insult (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18792430) ( Wayne spends the winters in Thailand.
.

"( Wayne spends the winters in Thailand."

I know, but I read his post as being "The King" (Elvis) ... I could be wrong, I have been before and I will be again ... so I figured to throw in another "King" while I was at it. Does not matter at this time as I believe "Elvis has left the building". ;)

[Matt Fellman]

Chicken or the egg? Did radical groups start hating us or did we do things to make them hate us?

Most of us are convinced we have the answer.... but it's just based on whatever influence we've had in our lives (media, parents, friends, experiences, etc, etc).

The only thing I know is the issue gets more clouded rather than more clear as time passes.

[Aaron Miller]

Chicken or the egg? Did radical groups start hating us or did we do things to make them hate us?

Most of us are convinced we have the answer.... but it's just based on whatever influence we've had in our lives (media, parents, friends, experiences, etc, etc).

The only thing I know is the issue gets more clouded rather than more clear as time passes.

I think if one goes back just a bit in history to the origins of the relationship between the USA and Japan one will find the answer. There are many other such examples depicting our imperialist actions and how they have adversely affected our relations with other countries, factions, religions, et al.

[Raymond Wand]

The Crusades


Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades)

Started long before America came into being.

[Aaron Miller]

The Crusades



[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades]Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/middle-ages-religion.htm[/url)

Started long before American came into being.

Yes, the USA has been using that playbook all along.

[Raymond Wand]

This is just not about America. America is not the only player in all of this.

If you want to blame anyone maybe it should be Christianity.

[Aaron Miller]

This is just not about America. America is not the only player in all of this.

If you want to blame anyone maybe it should be Christianity.

Ya' think?:D

How about just religion in general?

[Raymond Wand]

Religion is a major part of the problem and always has been and always will be.

I note the omission of Russia exerting its dominance in the world from the equation as an atheist state.

China another atheist state with a policy of territorial or economic expansion.

[Steven Turetsky]

Although religion is used as a catalyst to inflame people, don't believe it is the reason for the problem. IMO the reason is money and power.

[Troy Hendrickson]

This entire thread is predicated upon the assumption that the film created is the cause of the violence, which is simply not true.

From a logical standpoint, if it was the film, the act would have been spontaneous. Look at the facts: an anti-tank armor penetrating grenade (very difficult to procure) was used on the embassy to create a diversion. Protesters storm the building, the ambassador is evacuated. News reports came out that Libyan security forces provided the islamists with the location of the safe house the ambassador was brought to, where he was taken by the islamists in a second wave. That is planned, not spontaneous.

Further, a former Libyan terrorist who saw the error of his ways had come out and stated the film was merely an excuse, the PR front of the action. The truth was it was an Al Qaeda planned event, intended to coincide with 9/11, and is the retribution for the death of the AQ #2. There were also reports today in a British news outlet that indicate we had warning of an attack on the embassy but did not heed it.

Of course, the media, being what they are, jump on the film story, because to admit we failed would reflect dimly on the Dear Leader and his failed foreign policy.

[Raymond Wand]

Whats even more disturbing are the actions of the Syrian government on its citizens and yet there is no rioting on behalf of the Syrians being brutally murdered. So much for objectivity of the Muslim brotherhood.

[Matt Fellman]

This entire thread is predicated upon the assumption that the film created is the cause of the violence, which is simply not true.


Agreed.... many news outlets (for whatever it is worth) are reporting it was the terrorists using the movie as an excuse and the 9/11 anniversary to form protests outside the embassy(s). Basically, to catch us off guard thinking it was just a "routine" protest. By the time anyone realized it was more than that it was too late to organize any real defense.

Yet another example of the craftiness of our enemy.... To me, the scariest thing about the muslim extremist is their patience. They wait decades sometimes to lull people into taking their eye off the ball for just a second.

How long has it been since you've heard of an "orange" terror alert? All I hear of anymore are the airports scaling back some of the screening. Think back a minute how vigilant everyone was in the weeks following 9/11....how about 6 months after? how about 5 years after? how about now?

[Randy Aldering]

Bibi said it best. Look at what is happening to our embassies. Why are we giving these people money? Do we really want to take the chance they will have nuclear weapons?

The Export: Radical Islam's Map to the End of Democracy (http://www.theexport.net)