state licensing for home inspectors

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

hey all

i am the president of the rocky mountain NAHI chapter. i just recieved a memo to attend a meeting from a re/max realtor trying to get inspectors here to be licensed. i would like to know the pros and cons of this. all of my inspectors have been in business for many years me included and all are certified with proper schooling and certified by that learning institution and have passed our associations advanced certification and or NEHI. we have monthly education meetings and a yearly all day session--as well as emails sent from all members when something of interest comes up. what do you think of this demand from realestate agents and what did it do to your inspection business and etc. seems it would only mean our prices would go up because what we have to pay--someone gets handed the cost--just looking for any help--meeting on 11/13--does a license make me a better inspector--does it weed out the unqualified

please give me your thoughts

thanks

cvf

[Eric Barker]

Charlie, I had mistakenly thought licensing would be good for our state. But the requirements were watered down and the CE requirements are pretty pathetic. As a result it has hurt us. The # of HIs shot up when licensing came along and the quality of inspectors dropped. A friend of mine just attended a class for state credit and he said it was pretty much a joke.

If the agents want their clients to have good inspectors then they need to learn how to scope them out and forget about licensing.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

thanks eric

notes for my meeting--can you or anyone tell me how do you get a license in your state to be a HI-requirements

cvf

[Bruce Ramsey]

Licensing does not keep people out of the profession. It defines a very specific path so that they can become licensed. Continuing education requirements is the way to keep the standards high. If licensed inspectors have to take 40+ hours of training a year, a lot of potential inspectors will balk at giving up a weeks worth of billing AND pay to take a class.

The second method to weed out wanna be's is require E&O insurance. That is a $2-3000 penalty tax to every home inspector. Part timers don't make enough to pay the insurance so they quit. But that also raises the cost of all existing home inspectors.

Make sure that the licensing board has legal responsibility to go after people who practice without a license. The NC licensing board only has domain over licensed home inspectors. Inspecting without a license is a crime but the state DA said he doesn't care and doesn't have the time, money, or manpower to go after such trivial things. So someone other than the law has to find out about unlicensed home inspectors, collect evidence they are inspecting and then hand carry the case to the DA. If it is an open and shut case and there is nothing else do to, he might. Just ain't going to happen.

Make sure that licensing board make bars Agents and Builders from becoming members. They tend to direct the board to be more stringent on inspectors for no particular reason. The Home Builders Association had the NC law changed requiring additional CE for home inspectors while there is no CE required at all for General contractors. The agents hopped on that bus and backed the law change. Inspectors already take twice what agents have to have but they still wanted inspectors to take more training.

The fallacy in their thinking was that if they could make inspectors take more training, the reports would all be the same and they would no longer have to argue about defects.

North Carolina link
NCDOI OSFM | Engineering and Codes - Home Inspector - Licensing Application-Home_Inspector_Licensure_Tools (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering_and_Codes/Default.aspx?field1=Home_Inspector_-_Licensing_Application&user=Home_Inspector_Licensure_Tools&sub=HILT_Licensing)

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

GREAT GUYS KEEP IT COMING--I HAVE SO MANY NOTES

THANKS

[Jack Feldmann]

When TN started licensing in 2005 there were aboiut 400 inspectors in the State. Within a year or so, there was close to 900.
With the downturn in the economy, the number is back down to around 400 again.
The interesting thing I learned about licensing was you could be a licensed home inspector without ever having inspected a house. I was hiring an additional inspector when licensing started, and got several applications. The guy I ended up hiring had never done a home inspection. He had taken the training, passed the exam, and got E&O insurance.

Licensing did nothing to protect consumers in the State (the intended purpose).

[Ted Menelly]

True, sadly you never have to have inspected a home to become a home inspector..

Licensing at the least adds one more threshold for a wanna be inspector to cross to start inspecting homes. He at the least has to take courses and pass tests on each section of the course and they are proctored and then a final exam whether it be thru the state in our case or the NHIE.

The next step states have to do is an apprenticeship. A full year should do it. At the least they have a guide, mentor if you wish to at the least handle themselves properly and the reports reviewed to see if at the least they are wording things in the real sense and not a Realtor friendly sense.

Next get rid of any association as in our state with the Texas Real Estate Commission being the overseer of home inspectors. Get rid of having to obtain a SUPRA thru a Real Estate Association.

Next take the absolute bonding of all inspectors and Realtors away once and for all. There should be no one to market to that has thousands in the balance depending in many cases on how nicely a report is written.


Show yourselves as real independent professionals and not skirt monkeys begging for a biscuit.

You have to approach the state legislature as a true group within your state and not just some arm of a National Association/marketing company. True concerned professionals putting yourself forth as such. Apprenticeship, journeyman if you wish, to Professional. When folks realize that they absolutely have to work for someone else and not be able to charge half price to win over many Realtors and no association at all with realtors then I truly think the State licensing will be affective.

Seriously. What does it take to be a plumber, electrician, HVAC trades person. They all have steps that must be taken to finally get out there on their own.

Oh, I think I will retire and become a Home Inspector. I can great some great money for easy work and just butter up to some Real Estate Agents and I will be floating in retirement cash and at the least 5 to 8 inspections a week brown nosing. Darn I can do all that buttering and turn down work when I don't want to be that busy.

How many times have you actually heard that and or new for a fact that an individual was thinking it. It is the greatest retirement job one can have and do no real work to get the work besides buttering Realtors and writing some nice stuff in the report even though the home is falling down.

Now, before anyone attacks meet about the Realtor crap again, think real hard about what I wrote. You all know it is true. You all know how often you have heard similar crap about the retirement thing. You all know that something truly has to change so we can be true professionals.

199.00 for all home inspections with no expiration date on that 199.00 Yes there is one in my area doing that crap. Does it steal away work from true professionals? Does it diminish the "Professional" status in "Professional Home Inspectors". Absolutely dam tutin it does. It will always.

How much do Plumbers around here get for a minimum of a half day for one plumber??? Many hundreds of dollars. On a Saturday "After Hours"???About 800 for a half day.

How much does an average 1600 square foot home cost to be inspected in the area? You are lucky to get mid 200s up to 300 max. How long will you take between getting the inspection, traveling to and from the inspection, doing the inspection and then a walk around with the client, doing the report, possible follow up after the report goes out....minimum half a day. A plumber 500 and up. A home inspector 250 and up. He knows plumbing. We know every single trade there is, or should.

Go figure.

State licensing??? Absolutely, but it has to be done right and complete.!!!!!!!!!! No short cuts. If you start out weak it will always be weak.If you start out complete as possible and absolutely independent as possible it will only get even more independent, professional and higher fees.

And the standing President is still standing. Deeper and deeper and deeper we go. Where it stops only one can guess.

[Jim Luttrall]

Texas has had licensing longer than any state (I think) and it has done absolutely nothing to raise the bar. In fact, it has provided an artificially low threshold for newbies and inspector schools. The schools crank them out as fast as they can get students to put down their money but hen 90% don't renew their license after it expires the first time.
The bottom line is the only reason the realtor wants to see licensing is because they think it is a way to limit THEIR liability since they only provide the names of LICENSED inspectors to their clients.

I liked the licensing when I started since it lent an air of credibility that I knew what I was doing... Now I realize that and that the public relies on that fallacy when looking at a state issued license for assurance of competency.

If you must get on the licensing band wagon, insist on some sort of apprenticeship program with a seasoned professional inspector and a limit of how many inspectors that seasoned inspector can sponsor. This would help to limit the "churn 'em out" schools from flooding the market with incompetent or ill equipped inspectors fleecing the public.

[Eric Barker]

Next get rid of any association as in our state with the Texas Real Estate Commission being the overseer of home inspectors.

Not sure how to interpret that - get rid of associations or state agencies governing H.I.s. Our state agency isn't much more than an income producer.

[Scott Patterson]

I have held a home inspectors license since 2001 and currently I'm licensed in two states as a home inspector. I was appointed by our Governor to be one of the first five commissioners to serve on the HI board in MS. We basically designed the rules, etc for the license law. We were all home inspectors serving on the board so we all pretty much had the same ideas when it came to what we felt was needed in the law. We took many parts of the law from NC simply because at that time we only had about 5 states that were licensing then.

A good license law needs an education requirement(including CE for renewal); A testing requirement(NHIE); A financial accountability requirement (insurance, not necessarily E&O); and most of all it needs teeth when folks do not follow the law. I don't feel an experience requirement is paramount to a good license law.

At first as Jack noted you will have a flood of folks wanting to get a license, they will and then in a couple of years it will go back down to more realistic numbers. It has happened in every single licensed state.

Licensing home inspectors is more of a feel good action than a save the public action. Sure the a license law will help to deter those with bad intentions or those that are looking for a quick buck, but that is really a side benefit of a good license law. The real benefit as I see it is the home inspector now has written rule and guidelines that they must follow. A good law will also spell out the liability of the inspector and the law can also help to protect a home inspector against frivolous lawsuits. But again, it all depends on how the law/rules are written.

All in all a license law puts the home inspector on the same playing field as other licensed professionals in a state. You are no longer an unlicensed or unregulated business/trade in the eyes of other professionals and sometimes the consumer. I would say that being licensed has actually helped my business by limiting folks from deciding they want to be a home inspector on a whim. It requires some effort and an investment on the part of that individual to get a license in most states now.

[Garry Blankenship]

Washington St. recently licensed Home Inspectors. It was a problem for me in that I had just completed my training, but that training did not meet the newly established requirements. Hence; the time and expense had to be repeated. Ulitmately; I believe licensing is the way to go. Too many with minimal mechanical inclination, ( or none at all ), and perhaps a home deck install under their belt feel more than qualified to do Home Inspections. The licensing standards require all, ( firemen, retired military and teachers included ), to make a substantial effort beyond saying "I R an Inspector" and hanging out a shingle. The job / task / charge / responsibility / profession is far too important to not have some answerable standards in play.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

garry

what else do you have to have besides the license--is there a minimum education hours--insurance--# of inspection completed --yearly ce hours--etc--how much for license and did inspection fees go up???

cvf

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

TED TED TED

is there a helpful answer in that ramble--please

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

again all states

have a meeting with this real estate agent 11/13- trying to get HI LICENSED--can you tell me

1] is it a good idea
2] what does it cost inspectors
3] did you raise your inspection fee
4] what requirements did it have--education hours yearly--# of inspections before license approved-insurance- prior training hours,such as approved training class and their certification
5] state enforcement when caught without
6] did you see an influx of new inspectors when required

just some thoughts
i have ILLINOIS-TENN-SO FAR-AND TEXAS

thanks

cvf

[Jim Luttrall]

again all states

have a meeting with this real estate agent 11/13- trying to get HI LICENSED--can you tell me

1] is it a good idea
2] what does it cost inspectors
3] did you raise your inspection fee
4] what requirements did it have--education hours yearly--# of inspections before license approved-insurance- prior training hours,such as approved training class and their certification
5] state enforcement when caught without
6] did you see an influx of new inspectors when required

just some thoughts
i have ILLINOIS-TENN-SO FAR-AND TEXAS

thanks

cvf
1- depends
2 - 3000+ per year between insurance and education, fees
3- yes
4- initial training, apprenticeship for 25 inspections with sponsor and another 175 of indirect supervision, test, 16 hours per year CE. Apprenticeship requirement has been removed or substantially changed a couple of times since 1995 when I was first licensed.
5- don't know
6- don't know

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

thanks jim

is that 3000 for insurance and education a requirement for license

cvf

[Nolan Kienitz]

CVF,

You and I both had prior lives with AT&T (I was with Labs for 15+ years) ... a whole different lifetime away.

Jim L. and Ted M. have provided some good observations for the Texas stuff we have to deal with.

The TREC Inspectors Advisory Committee just got TREC Commissioners approved for an update SOP and report template. It will be presented at the Texas Register for 60-days and then (depending upon public comments) will be adjusted (if necessary) and then will become the new "law" of how we are required to inspect.

This will be the third or fourth version of SOP and report template that we have had to deal with since TREC got control of the inspectors in Texas.

My caution is who is going to control the licensing of the inspectors and to what set of guidelines (SOP) will be the baseline?

If the state organization also controls the agents/brokers then (in my view) there is one helluva conflict of interest. I would keep as far away from that as possible.

In Texas we have TREC (Texas Real Estate Commission) they license/control: Agents/Brokers, Inspectors, Appraisers and the companies that offer the 'home warranty insurance' packages that most all agents have their clients buy.

Now ... tell me ... where the heck is the clear separation of church/state in that scenario?

We inspectors cannot do squat without approval from the TREC Commissioners and is there even "one" technical person on the Commissioners committee? Absolutely NOT. It is all controlled by Agents/Brokers. They OWN inspectors and inspections in Texas.

BTW - In my 10-years of inspecting in Texas (and being licensed for that entire timeframe) ... I've never had a client ask me if I was "licensed". It does absolutely nothing for your clients.

As noted by Jim & Ted it provides an out for the agent/broker to defer liability, but even they don't spend the time to ask if the inspector's license is current.


I'll get off my soapbox now !!! ;)

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

nolan

thanks the patrolling of this is also an issue in other states--

who does that agents the DA--that is the main problem i have and the lack of education and insurance

thanks

cvf

[Jim Luttrall]

thanks jim

is that 3000 for insurance and education a requirement for license

cvf

I pay $3000 just for insurance but I carry substantially more than the state mandated minimum along with a general liability rider. The CE classes are in addition to that for me. I have no idea what the current costs are for beginners.

[Lon Henderson]

Charlie and I belong to the same NAHI chapter here. Many years ago, I had some minor input in an effort to create licensing. At the time the Colorado legislature turned it down, but this attempt may have a better chance.

So, like Charlie, your experiences with licensing is very helpful. And I have a couple of questions for those of you in states with licensing.

1) Did your state "grandfather" in experienced inspectors or did everyone have to take educational courses and/or pass a test?
2) Does your state require O&E insurance and did requiring O&E insurance lower your rates?
3) Does your state have a very specific SoP or a standardized inspection and/or report requirement?
4) What effect has licensing had on the number of claims in your state?
5) It seems to me that an apprenticeship requirement would help with the quality of new inspectors. How many states require apprenticeship?

Thanks guys.

[Nolan Kienitz]

nolan

thanks the patrolling of this is also an issue in other states--

who does that agents the DA--that is the main problem i have and the lack of education and insurance

thanks

cvf

CVF,

In Texas TREC has their own investigative people. Also the Rules are written such that we inspectors are to also be honest and police ourselves ... IE: Turn your fellow inspector in. That's tough to enforce.

As I noted ... TREC has everything other their own roof/span of control AND the TREC Commission is all chaired by agents/brokers.

To get a TREC inspector's license one is required to also provide proof of E&O in a document that has to be sent by the carrier to TREC. Without that document/proof of E&O they will not issue a license.

[Nolan Kienitz]

Charlie and I belong to the same NAHI chapter here. Many years ago, I had some minor input in an effort to create licensing. At the time the Colorado legislature turned it down, but this attempt may have a better chance.

So, like Charlie, your experiences with licensing is very helpful. And I have a couple of questions for those of you in states with licensing.

1) Did your state "grandfather" in experienced inspectors or did everyone have to take educational courses and/or pass a test?
2) Does your state require O&E insurance and did requiring O&E insurance lower your rates?
3) Does your state have a very specific SoP or a standardized inspection and/or report requirement?
4) What effect has licensing had on the number of claims in your state?
5) It seems to me that an apprenticeship requirement would help with the quality of new inspectors. How many states require apprenticeship?

Thanks guys.

Lon,

Jim L., Ted M. and other TX inspectors will likely also provide some input to your list. Below is my observation.

1) I was not part of the inspector community when it initially started the licensing program.
2) E&O (not O&E) is required by the Texas Legislature and one has to have a certain form sent to TREC from their carrier proving they have paid for and have active E&O coverage. No ... mandated E&O does not get any breaks in fees.
3) See my post elsewhere in this thread RE: SOP. The Texas TREC SOP is the absolute worst and most detailed SOP. The most current (IE: proposed) version is better/cleaner and appears it will be approved and put into Rule by Feb or Mar/2013. Yes, we have a required template that we must follow.
4) As for claims I can't address that. Such information is held very close to the vest by the carriers. TREC also has a recovery fund that can provide a 'double-dip' in a legal suit along with the inspector's E&O. The recovery fund may go away with the 2013 TX Legislative session, but we don't know for sure.
5) I've never looked into the TX TREC rules regarding such, but there is a path to licensing that does involve such.

[Scott Patterson]

again all states

have a meeting with this real estate agent 11/13- trying to get HI LICENSED--can you tell me

1] is it a good idea
2] what does it cost inspectors
3] did you raise your inspection fee
4] what requirements did it have--education hours yearly--# of inspections before license approved-insurance- prior training hours,such as approved training class and their certification
5] state enforcement when caught without
6] did you see an influx of new inspectors when required

just some thoughts
i have ILLINOIS-TENN-SO FAR-AND TEXAS

thanks

cvf

1] Some think so and some don't
2] $300 Lic fee for TN $300 for MS every 2 years.
3]No most do not raise their fees
4] Pre lic education 85 hrs in TN by approved school. GL& E&O insurance $300K
5]State enforcement by lic division. Fines, revoke license, more education, etc.
6]Yes, the numbers increased and then went down next renewal period.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

thanks scott

good info

[Bruce Ramsey]

again all states

have a meeting with this real estate agent 11/13- trying to get HI LICENSED--can you tell me

1] is it a good idea
2] what does it cost inspectors
3] did you raise your inspection fee
4] what requirements did it have--education hours yearly--# of inspections before license approved-insurance- prior training hours,such as approved training class and their certification
5] state enforcement when caught without
6] did you see an influx of new inspectors when required


1) Maybe
2) Annual fee renewal $165, CE ~$350 for the class plus travel,hotel, etc.
3) Happened before I got in the biz
4)1 year apprenticeship, pass state test OR be a General Contractor, Architect, or PE.
To get your GC license you pass a test and pay $75. No previous experience, no CE, nothing. Guess how most inspectors met the requirement to become an HI?
5)State enforcement is through the courts but licensing board has no authority over non-licensed offenders.
6)Yes, there was an influx

[Garry Blankenship]

garry

what else do you have to have besides the license--is there a minimum education hours--insurance--# of inspection completed --yearly ce hours--etc--how much for license and did inspection fees go up???

cvf

120 hours minimum certified classroom training ~ $ 4 K prox
40 hours minimum field training ~ $ 500 prox
Take a test w/ a minimum 70% correct - - - $ 300.00 exam fee
Payment for license - - - $ 680.00
Insurance = none required
Previous experience = proof of 200 inspections and and two years minimum experience ~ fees the same for licensing and exam required, ( again $ 300.00 )

[Robert Ernst]

I like the licensing. The Real Estate division does a pretty good job of keeping people from doing them with out the license. I think out prices here are reasonable and from what I have heard that only 25% of people that take the required classes go into business. I get calls from California buyer to inspect because they want someone with a license and insurance. It seems I'm lower than the CA inspectors but the cost of living is lower and hour or so away where I am. You can see the NV requirements here. Nevada Real Estate Division (http://red.state.nv.us/Inspectandaudit/initial_certification.htm)

[Lon Henderson]

Lon,

Jim L., Ted M. and other TX inspectors will likely also provide some input to your list. Below is my observation.
5) I've never looked into the TX TREC rules regarding such, but there is a path to licensing that does involve such.
I see that Texas has two paths to becoming licensed. Do most new licensees take the education path?

[Hank Spinnler]

I am anti-licensing. Are they going to market your business for you and pay your employees? I may include whatever I want in my report. I can cite code or include things that others in licensed states cannot include in their reports and summaries. I can make my report template different than my competition. I do not want to give the Realtor association or government control over my business. I don't need to pay extra fees and increase my business operating expenses. I am anti-licensing.

[Jack Feldmann]

Lon,
Yes, they did grandfather inspectors that had been in business for (I think) 3 years and had done at least 250 inspections. They other requirement was that you had to have passed the National Home Inspector Exam. You had to also have insurance.

Hank,
While you may be against licensing, you may not have any choice at some point. BY the way, not all States dictate how reports are written with the exception that they must meet the minimum SOP. In TN case, its almost a direct copy of the ASHI SOP. But, there is not restriction on what all you can put in the report.

If I not mistaken, Texas is the only State that has a State approved inspection report format. Inspectors from Texas can address how they deal with that.

My additional costs due to licensing is $300 every two years. I had insurance anyway, and I get my continuing education anyway for ASHI. So the increase cost of being licensed is $12.50/month. Not exactly a justification for raising prices.

[Dan Harris]

All is good in AZ, for the public and inspectors.
I'm more than glad to compete with an inspector that met the states min. requirements of 80 hrs training, 30 ride along inspections, back gound investigation, report review/verification, and passed the NHIE, opposed to competing with someone that took an on-line quiz then call/market themselves a "certified " inspector to the public.

Additional cost.. Lic. and business lic renewal. $90. a year.
$100,000 E@O or $25,000 bond

[Lon Henderson]

Update: We had our big meeting with the Realtor and state senator who are advancing this effort to create licensing. They were under the impression that we could have something ready to go by Dec 1. It didn't take long to convince them that this was a far more complicated issue than they realized and Dec 1 was unreasonable to expect any kind of quality legislation. Both were reasonable but made it clear that licensing was coming with or without our input. This effort was coming from "above" even though neither had any thing more than anecdotal evidence of a problem with our industry.

So, the nine of us there, representing the "big three" inspector associations, are going to meet in the next few weeks to start the ball rolling. The good news for us is that you guys in other states have already invented this wheel and we can create our wheel based on the work already done.

[Raymond Wand]

The fact that legislators et al claiming that there are problems with inspectors, their standards, methods, liabilities et ceteras never are able to produce any documentation to back up that inspectors require licencing.


This effort was coming from "above" even though neither had any thing more than anecdotal evidence of a problem with our industry.

Okay ... well here is some ammo/facts and not anecdotal for ya ( :) ), so why don't the legislators get the 'facts' straight before they shoot their mouths off and provide no proof?

2010 Complaint and Inquiry Statistics - Canadian BBB (http://www.bbb.org/canada/2010-complaint-and-inquiry-statistics/)

Up here our government is studying licensing and have used Mike Holmes as a consultant to promote licensing! The guy is not even an inspector nor does he hold any qualifications, nor understand the standards or ethics of the profession.

[Lon Henderson]

It was our impression that they had decided that licensing was required and discussion on whether it was necessary was not of interest to them.

It appears that findings of the Belmont Tech College study and reports from other license states (and Canada) are not of interest to them.

Real estate agents, lenders, appraisers, and tradespeople are licensed and so should HIs be licensed. Either we drive the train or get run over by it was the message, even if diplomatically communicated.

[John Kogel]

The Canadian province of BC has licensing, and this is our 3rd year. We were lucky in that the govt agency took pointers from the 2 strong HI associations. But allowed members from weaker associations as well, and diluted the requirements to boost the numbers, maybe.

We pay the highest licensing fees in the world, over $450/year. This is to finance the administration of the licensing, which is basically a government agency which collects license fees. :confused:

The HI associations take care of CE and training, as they were doing before.
Mandatory E+O has reduced the numbers of part-timers, I think. You now have to be a member of one of the 4 associations.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

HEY ALL

have been reading and reading,trying to read the requirements for all state licensing to take to our meeting. i,ve read states that just gegister HI,{ penn} and licenses them. can you guys tell me how this is really enforced. do you fine unlicensed inspectors and also the real estate agents that hire them. can you ever stop them from inspecting. how is it done in your state.successful or not.

thanks

cvf

[Rick Bunzel]

Charlie,

I was around Colorado when Loveland was pushing to have registered HI's. When I moved to Washington State I got thrown into the Licensing Advisory Group. It took almost 3 years to get a language we could accept. I would be happy to share that information with you. Just give me a call.

//Rick

[Raymond Wand]

Charlie,

You may have seen this info, but for your enlightenment in case you didn't ...

State Regulation Directory
How To Become A Home Inspector | Home Inspectors | Home Inspection | NAHI (http://www.nahi.org/how-to-become-an-inspector/)

[Scott Patterson]

HEY ALL

have been reading and reading,trying to read the requirements for all state licensing to take to our meeting. i,ve read states that just gegister HI,{ penn} and licenses them. can you guys tell me how this is really enforced. do you fine unlicensed inspectors and also the real estate agents that hire them. can you ever stop them from inspecting. how is it done in your state.successful or not.

thanks

cvf

The agency that will be over the law needs to be the enforcement arm. The law and rules will define the punishments for violations.

As for unlicensed inspectors being used? This can be done a couple of ways but the most effective is for the real estate agents to be the police. In every single state that I have seen and reviewed their license laws it is against the agents fiduciary duty as defined in their license law for them to use an unlicensed professional in the transaction. It might not be worded that way but generally it is covered and it just needs to be publicized and the word gotten out that the agent will be in violation of their own license law if they use or their client uses an unlicensed inspector.

In MS & TN it is written into the home inspector rules that the agents were responsible for insuring that all home inspectors used by their clients were licensed by the state. This is actually in the HI law and not the real estate agents license law.

The most difficult part of enforcement of any license law is the proof. You have to have that written report, with the date, and other identifying information on it in order to enforce any action against the unlicensed inspector or against a licensed inspector who is screwing up. This is more difficult to obtain than you think.

[Ted Menelly]

Update: We had our big meeting with the Realtor and state senator who are advancing this effort to create licensing. They were under the impression that we could have something ready to go by Dec 1. It didn't take long to convince them that this was a far more complicated issue than they realized and Dec 1 was unreasonable to expect any kind of quality legislation. Both were reasonable but made it clear that licensing was coming with or without our input. This effort was coming from "above" even though neither had any thing more than anecdotal evidence of a problem with our industry.

So, the nine of us there, representing the "big three" inspector associations, are going to meet in the next few weeks to start the ball rolling. The good news for us is that you guys in other states have already invented this wheel and we can create our wheel based on the work already done.


OK

So you had a meeting with "Realtor" and a State Senator.

First off the biggest mistake you folks are making is having any Realtor or Realtor association involved in anything to do with the licensing of Home Inspectors.

They should have absolutely nothing to do or influence of the home inspection process or licensing.

One of the biggest mistakes in Texas is that the licensing for Home Inspectors is under The Texas Real Estate Commission which as mentioned earlier has Realtors sitting on that board.

Why everyone wants to go this route with Realtors being involved in anything to do with Home Inspections or Home Inspector licensing is beyond my comprehension.

They are to totally different worlds. Realtors represent the buyer in a home purchase or sale and a Home Inspector Is looking for and reporting concerns in the home that the buyer or selling should be made aware off for their financial best interest.

A Realtor is not a Home Inspector. A Realtor takes absolutely no courses in Home Inspection. A Realtor for the most part do not Know the building industry other than association with the building industry.The only involvement they should have is to add the concerns that a buyer wants fixed or an allowance for and or renegotiate the price based on the "Home Inspectors Findings"

To be able to dictate to or comment on any action from a Home Inspector on what he includes or does not include in his report is absolutely ludicrous.

That is what a completely separate board should be for. Realtors stand to make many many many thousands of dollars off of the sale of the home. They are compilers of information for the client and attorneys and Lenders in some cases.

I inspected a 5300 sq ft home yesterday. The selling agent alone is making a small fortune on that home. My clients contacted me so there could be a complete separation from the Realtor and Home Inspector. That is the case with 80% or more of my clients. If not a whole lot higher percentage than that.

In an hour or so I will be inspecting a 7300 sq ft home. These folks contacted me directly to have a complete separation from Realtor and inspector. A fortune will be made on this sale and the Realtor should have no input in the slightest which inspector should be inspecting the home.

The Realtor for the buyer asked me how the folks found me and I told him previous clients. I also told him that I do not market Realtors for my work. His question to me was "Then how do you get all the work that you do" I told him once again. Past clients and word of mouth thru others that know of me thru someone that had their home inspected. Add a bit of internet and a very slight pinch of Realtors and I manage pretty well. Still shocked and actually annoyed look o his face. The Realtors that refer me I have not talked to directly in so long I almost forget what they look like. A few of them I have not seen or talked to in years.

Forget about all of this Realtor interaction with Home Inspection Licensing. Decision of Home Inspector Licensing. Board sitting on a home inspectors licensing. What a report should look like or what it should include or not include.

Unassociated public folks that have no ties to Home Inspectors or Realtors. A couple of Lawyers thrown into the mixed to keep things legal.

A one year apprenticeship at the least along with courses taken before and during the one year process. Marketing classes taken to not include marketing Realtors. Continuing education for all home inspectors. The full ability for a home inspector to add his knowledgeable opinions on all findings in the home. If he thinks it is a concern for the home buyer then it should be included in the report. That is what he is getting paid for. Yesterday I helped out with a slight redesign for a media room and added whole heartedly my opinions about such.

Home inspectors differentiating whether it is a major concern or minor concern other than explaining to a client about possible simple fixes that are not costly to big expensive fixes. Other than that it should be all inclusive and forget the summary. The report should be the summary. It should be the clients decision as to what goes into a summary that is getting sent off to the seller or listing agent. Not the Realtors decision.

A broken receptacle cover ma be a big concern. Filthy carpet or even light stains should be mentioned as you have no clue as to whether or not they can be cleaned or if it will be acceptable to the buyer....Their choice. Not yours or the Realtors.

Anyways

If you gents are serious about this do not talk to Realtors about this. It is you Home Inspection world and you are there for your client, not a Realtor.

I am not understanding, and the only reason I keep writing, is because I am trying to find the magic reason as to why you want or think a Realtor should be involved in any of this. A meeting with a Realtor and Senator???? How about the Governors office or state licensing board. Have meetings with those folks to put the whole package together to present to the officials in charge of making these new laws that you may want enacted.

Directly to a Senator with a Realtor sitting between you and him???????

Please no bashing of my thoughts about Realtors and such. I know, a lot of you hate my rhetoric about this.

Think about it. Seriously. Stop hugging the Realtors. Unless you think they are hot :-) They have absolutely no place in the matter of Home Inspector licensing and reporting.

Play nice. I named no names and I want to keep it that way. I responded to Lon but it was meant for all to read and think about.

[Lon Henderson]

Currently, the Colorado contract allows the buyer to choose his/her inspector whether they choose a professional inspector or uncle bob the contractor.

You bring up an interesting factor that we will have to address.

[Ted Menelly]

The agency that will be over the law needs to be the enforcement arm. The law and rules will define the punishments for violations.

As for unlicensed inspectors being used? This can be done a couple of ways but the most effective is for the real estate agents to be the police. In every single state that I have seen and reviewed their license laws it is against the agents fiduciary duty as defined in their license law for them to use an unlicensed professional in the transaction. It might not be worded that way but generally it is covered and it just needs to be publicized and the word gotten out that the agent will be in violation of their own license law if they use or their client uses an unlicensed inspector.

In MS & TN it is written into the home inspector rules that the agents were responsible for insuring that all home inspectors used by their clients were licensed by the state. This is actually in the HI law and not the real estate agents license law.

The most difficult part of enforcement of any license law is the proof. You have to have that written report, with the date, and other identifying information on it in order to enforce any action against the unlicensed inspector or against a licensed inspector who is screwing up. This is more difficult to obtain than you think.

Scott

Great words as usual.

I do differ a bit (go figure). The absolute only involvement a Realtor should have is to hand the client a legal form stating that it is in the best interest of the client to get a Home Inspector. Also on that piece of paper it should state that the Realtor cannot refer any inspector or inspector association. As far as the licensed part, on that piece of legal paper it should list the website that the Inspectors license can be seen on to see if they even have one.. On that sight immediately after the search for that inspectors license should have a pop up to enter the name of the person and contact info of the person claiming they are in fact licensed.. And then a list of inspectors should pop up on that website of licensed inspectors.

Now the only problem with that as in someone very close to me experienced. That person sent all their CEUs in. They filled out the application for renewal. They paid for their renewal. They sent in their insurance documentation even though the insurance company sends it as well. All of this was done on the exact same day at the exact same time. A receipt was sent back confirming all was received and paid for. All of this the person has all receipts for all this information in hand and this was sent one month to the day before the expiration was to be.

Then this person just received a letter 15 days after the noted date that his license would have expired) stating that there licensed has expired due to non renewal (a month and a half after all was sent in and all receipts were in hand). All inspections must stop. A hundred dollar late filing fee must be sent in with the application along with all CEUs and Insurance info. Your Insurance info cannot be obtained more than 30 days prior to the expiration of you yearly insurance.


Just saying

So much for state licensing.

[Lon Henderson]

The Realtor is the one spearheading this effort. Twice before, and years ago, home inspectors tried to initiate licensing legislation in Colorado. Both times, the effort died in the Colorado legislature. As far as we were concerned, this was a dead issue until this Realtor who is a former Realtor Assoc. Prez, notified a few HI association presidents last month, that he had a Senator, lobbyist and backing to create licensing for us.

Ted, you make great points and I actually made similar ones to him and the Senator at our meeting. Home inspectors are the only persons involved in the home buying process, that have only the buyer's interest and no other conflict. Some might and do argue, that keeping agents happy to get their referrals is a conflict of interest, but no agent refers any of us enough business to be worth one law suit.

I disagree with not allowing Realtors to refer or recommend a home inspector. (and yep, most of my business is from agent referrals). Clients hire a real estate agent to help them buy or sell a home and part of that help should be aid with finding a good lender to do the mortgage, a good title company, and yes, a good inspector. Agents, particularly the ones that have been in business for awhile, know who to trust to provide quality service for their clients. They should be able to offer those referrals, imo.

I have never kissed any agent's royal behind and I am happy to say that the agents that I work with, appreciate that about me.

[Nolan Kienitz]

Another nuance that many of us in Texas have experienced is where some realtors have also become licensed inspectors.

Many of these 'inspectors' are embedded with a realty brokerage and such brokerage provides "one stop shopping" for their home buying clients.

Some of these folks are more honest than others about making such affiliations open/clear/transparent and there are just as many who are not so honest.

Goes without saying that most such inspections/reports in such circumstances are fluff to the point that the agent's commission does not get jeopardized.

Trying to police such is difficult when the licensing agency is owned/operated by the 'real estate' side of the industry.

Just another layer of "stuff" to deal with.

[Nolan Kienitz]

Assuming the folks get the information assembled and posted today I'll be posting on another thread the new/proposed Texas TREC SOP and TREC 7-3 Report Template and Rules associated for same.

This has been a two-year process by the SOP Sub-Committee of the IAC (Inspector's Advisory Committee) at TREC.

The TREC Commission provided the "go-ahead" a week ago and the proposed documents will be posted in the Texas Register for 60-days for public comment.

There may be some changes following such a time frame (usually there are none) and then the new SOP, Rules and 7-3 Template will become the new law/rules that we inspectors have to follow.

None of this would have gotten this far without approval from the agents/brokers that chair the TREC Commission. They and TREC staff had input as to how the template looks, what basic text has to be in the template and so on.

I watched a video of one meeting from last summer where the TREC Commission was grilling the sub-committee chair about why did we (inspectors) have to be so technical? Why couldn't we concern ourselves with more cosmetic things rather than all the technical stuff? She said her clients (she was from West Texas) didn't care about the technical stuff as it was confusing.

Just keep such in mind when dealing with such an atmosphere of having your industry controlled by agents/brokers and such. It is not 'clean'.

[Garry Blankenship]

The reality of license enforcement is that it is weak at best. There may be a designated entity with enforcement responsibility, but budgets dictate that you will never see any pro-active effort. When a home buyer victimized by an unqualified inspector complains they might get some action, but otherwise that inspector is good to go. I like Scott's suggestion that Realtors should share in the responsibility for appropriately licensed inspectors. Not only because they are dominate referral sources, but they can educate buyers with their own inspectors to the requirement for and value in licensed inspectors. There should be some verbiage to that end in the Realtor / Buyer contracts.

[Lon Henderson]

Things are different in Texas. When my brother and I sold, our parent's home in Lubbock, I was astonished when our agent (who was double ending the sale) told me that she had advised the buyers that they didn't need an inspection.

Still, we have airhead agents here too and more than once, I have had to explain to an agent why something is important. (They weren't all blonds)

[Ted Menelly]

The reality of license enforcement is that it is weak at best. There may be a designated entity with enforcement responsibility, but budgets dictate that you will never see any pro-active effort. When a home buyer victimized by an unqualified inspector complains they might get some action, but otherwise that inspector is good to go. I like Scott's suggestion that Realtors should share in the responsibility for appropriately licensed inspectors. Not only because they are dominate referral sources, but they can educate buyers with their own inspectors to the requirement for and value in licensed inspectors. There should be some verbiage to that end in the Realtor / Buyer contracts.


That is exactly why they should be left out of it all together. As in the letter I commented on them giving clients. State they need a home inspection. State that by law they can not refer in anyway at all. State the website they can check an inspectors license status.

I watched the same video of the Realtor asking about why we need to get into the technical stuff. Sitting on the board. Deciding what we write and how we write it and how our Report should look.

Come on now. Seriously ?????????????? And they should be an integral part of the home inspection and referral business.

And they are over us and we are their subs?????????.

Forget the Realtors involved in your decision making. It will not, does not and will never work.

[Raymond Wand]

Up here we had one half ass HI association hold a licencing symposium wherein the executive of CREA (Cdn Real Estate Assoc) who was the MC get up and said that she would use her members clout to have home inspectors licenced because this association thought it was a good idea. The association wanted nothing more than to have its entry requirements used as the measuring rod for licencing and wanting its foot in the door above all others.

Needless to say that attempt went over like a lead balloon because a number of us who attended made a big stink and wrote letters to CREA telling them what we thought.

[Lon Henderson]

It's hard, if not impossible, for politics to stay out of the process.

[Eddie Patin]

Increasing regulation is NEVER a good thing.

Some inspectors have already made the point that the sudden requirement of licensing means that more bad inspectors will market more effectively behind such licensing. Just like with certifications. Only now it will be the state trying to get a piece of the pie, and the industry will favor more the inspectors willing to fork over the cash instead of focusing on business ethics and the responsibility to investigate an inspector/company before doing business.

This is bad news.

[Raymond Wand]

Has licencing driven up E&O premiums vs. those with E&O in non licenced states to anyones knowledge?

[Scott Patterson]

Has licencing driven up E&O premiums vs. those with E&O in non licenced states to anyones knowledge?

From what I have seen E&O has gone down over the past few years, I don't think it matters if it is a licensed state or not.

[Ted Menelly]

If you get the basics 100,000 dollar requirement and you get some general liability insurance you looking at about 1000 dollars to 1200.

[Greg Filian]

"the state trying to get a piece of the pie,"

With all the lack of tax revenue, this appears to be a tax on home inspectors.
If a "HI" starts a business with no experience, his reputation soon gets around and he doesn't get much business or goes out of business. However if they have the experience, training, certifications, and let's not forget people skills and marketing ability to build a successful business then they may make a success of it.
I get the question all the time of "are handy men good to use"? I respond with "not all handy men are bad, and not all licensed contractors are good". Same with HI "not all licensed home inspectors are good and not all unlicensed HI are bad".
I truly believe that I have an unending source of work as a HI because of all the bad repair work be it licensed or unlicensed.

That's my experience.

[Garry Blankenship]

That is exactly why they should be left out of it all together. As in the letter I commented on them giving clients. State they need a home inspection. State that by law they can not refer in anyway at all. State the website they can check an inspectors license status.

I watched the same video of the Realtor asking about why we need to get into the technical stuff. Sitting on the board. Deciding what we write and how we write it and how our Report should look.

Come on now. Seriously ?????????????? And they should be an integral part of the home inspection and referral business.

And they are over us and we are their subs?????????.

Forget the Realtors involved in your decision making. It will not, does not and will never work.

It would not be my choice that Realtors should be a part of the referral process and we neither are nor should be their subs. If a client of yours asks for a contractor referral and you provide one, does that mean the contractor licks your boots ? However; convince anyone, including me, that Realtors are not dominate referral sources. Realtors setting standards for inspectors is not my/the intent. Making them aware of and accountable to liscensing requirements is. They are heavily involved in the process. Better to educate them and strive for some quality control than to complain about the bad ones.

[Ted Menelly]

It would not be my choice that Realtors should be a part of the referral process and we neither are nor should be their subs. If a client of yours asks for a contractor referral and you provide one, does that mean the contractor licks your boots ? However; convince anyone, including me, that Realtors are not dominate referral sources. Realtors setting standards for inspectors is not my/the intent. Making them aware of and accountable to licensing requirements is. They are heavily involved in the process. Better to educate them and strive for some quality control than to complain about the bad ones.

I respect your ideas Gary but no matter how much you or anyone for that matter tries to play it down this still leaves the Realtors overseers of Home Inspectors. We are on a very slow road here in Texas to be released from the Realtors grip and control. We still have to get a SUPRA key through a Real Estate association but we no longer have to rely on them to be available to get a code from them. We now have our own. If you could have heard some of the retoric that came from them, much like yours (no insult intended), about giving up control to just anybody. Yes , the inspectors, just anybody. If in fact you really new what the realtors talk about when it comes to home inspectors and the home inspection process and how most go about picking "their" inspectors you would be shocked. I have a few Realtor folks or should I say ex Realtor folks that I know. I have heard a hundred stories. Their little puppy dog inspector and so on. Like begging for a bone.

I am not questioning the fact at all, that for the mass majority of inspectors, there would be temporary starvation and mass hysteria if they lost 90% of their work due to Realtors not being able to refer them. But in a short time all the work would come back in the way of the normal marketing sources out there. You were taught as most inspectors were taught that they must market Realtors because they hold the purse strings. It is a known fact that they do. I just rely on a mass of past clients for referrals. Realtors percentage has almost but disappeared as the way the work comes to me. The percentage is so small it is not worth mentioning. More like a complete reverse of what most inspectors have.

You wan the Realtor to be in charge of looking up the license number of an inspector that a client chooses???? Seriously. That keeps them forever in charge. The ability to add other comments about particular inspectors they do not agree with and a report stile that serves a client extremely well and an inspector that 99.9 % of all clients are extremely happy with.

Gotta Go Gary. I carried this on way to far. No matter what you suggest it is still leaving the Realtors in charge. After all. Who better than to police the Home inspection business than Realtors since that is where 90% of most home inspectors work comes from, Ay.

This is why the Realtor connection will still take decades to remove from the home inspection business. Too many individuals count on their livelihood from them.

Oh, wait, that is what the problem is already and has been since home inspection started. Realtors in the business of not just home inspection but control and overseeing of inspectors. Lets just add policing of home inspectors!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously?????

Just some more food for thought. They need to be completely removed from the Home Inspection business. Not add more duties to it for them which will do nothing but give deeper control. Over something they no nothing about.

The first inspection I did I was 20. I am 58 closing in on 59. I think I might know just a bit more what may be best for the home inspection industry than a Realtor....yeah think????

Anyway. I have to finish both yesterdays report and today's report. Damn, I just came back to reality. The Realtor today has not used me for years. Guess what I just inspected for her. Literally for her. She is buying a home that her son is eventually going to buy from her.

Go figure huh!!!! Lets see. The first thought for her and her son was me. Not the first thought for her regular clients. What the heck might that be all about????? I think it has something to do with the easiest route to go and the less road blocks.

I respect your thoughts Gary. I really do. But in these decades doing this thing I do you will never convince me that Realtors have any place what so ever in the home inspection business.

[John Ghent]

Update: We had our big meeting with the Realtor and state senator who are advancing this effort to create licensing. They were under the impression that we could have something ready to go by Dec 1. It didn't take long to convince them that this was a far more complicated issue than they realized and Dec 1 was unreasonable to expect any kind of quality legislation. Both were reasonable but made it clear that licensing was coming with or without our input. This effort was coming from "above" even though neither had any thing more than anecdotal evidence of a problem with our industry.

So, the nine of us there, representing the "big three" inspector associations, are going to meet in the next few weeks to start the ball rolling. The good news for us is that you guys in other states have already invented this wheel and we can create our wheel based on the work already done.


My advice is to hire a lobbyist who has connections in your State. Whatever the cost is it will keep you from being steamrolled by the realtors. Most state licensing attempts fall flat because inspectors have so many diverse ideas about what they would like to see in a licensing program that the effort usually falls flat and others who are more organized take over the program. Inspectors begin to do the pro and con fight about licensing. Realtors are connected both in their states and nationally.

[Raymond Wand]

Speaking of Realtor influence(s) of inspectors, I was taken aback by the number of inspectors who openly advertise on their websites that they are members of the local real estate associations/bodies.

I guess we know who is licking whose boots, eh?

[Ted Menelly]

Speaking of Realtor influence(s) of inspectors, I was taken aback by the number of inspectors who openly advertise on their websites that they are members of the local real estate associations/bodies.

I guess we know who is licking whose boots, eh?

Having to be in association as in for your association dues to get your SUPRA (what a scam that is) SUPRA is one thing and mentioning something to the fact so you can ward off offenses is one thing. Licking bbbbbbababbaaaabbabaackaakkakakkakakkassssiides is another. That is a lot of Realtors for some folks as in explaining that stutter.

Back to the scam of having to pay dues to a Realtor association so you can get a SUPRA????? I am quite sure 200 a year is way way way over what admin cost there may be. We pay about 200 a year for the privilege of going to the Realtors Association to pay another 200 to get our Supra for the year.

As far as what John Ghent said. Very unfortunately most inspectors get almost all their work thru their favorite Realtors as in the Realtors favorite inspectors to ever even dream of anytime in my life time to see a complete separation.

Same thing in voting John. Lets see. Bail my company out and then bail my retirement fund that went south out, and I will vote for you. Be in favor or federal workers pay and raises and benefits as in fantastic plans but in the same breath say that we cannot afford to pay everyone's insurance and retirement and all those other benefit.

Gov work use to be lower pay in lieu of great benefits and retiring. Now it has become greaterrrrrrr pay and fantastic benefits.

Lets see. You feed me and my family and give me a great retirement and I can also afford great benefits and all I have to do is work for you....I mean my family.....oh I mean the client. I am not sure why there is not a hoard of Inspectors lobbying to work "under" the Realtors and get a flat fee depending on the size of the home and extras. Then they have to do nothing but get up and go do an inspection or two every single day and no advertising or marketing of any kind.

The realtors could even limit who works under them in their office ( Gee, they do that already) Limit the total amount of inspectors (gee they do that already by feeding those they want to) Control what goes into a report (hm, do hat already) Sit on a board over the Inspectors ( damn I am running out of things here. They do that already too).

Oh well. I guess things must just stay the way they are.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

ted

wtf- are you on something . can you please stop intercepting every thread on how you hate real estate agents and how you don,t take agents referrals and then you do but not many. so bull ****

can you please add something constructive to this thread, or stay off it. you seem to think you are the greatest inspector in the world and do not need agent help. remember we do not get work without real estate agents selling homes. i have asked for information on being licensed and what we here in colorado should be doing --NOT YOUR EVER CRAP ON HATING AGENTS AND YOU DON,T NEED THEM. PLEASE --seems you have so much time time to write endless ramble words. during those times you claim to be doing 7300 sq foot homes

help out or find another thread to bore us with

cvf

[Ted Menelly]

ted

wtf- are you on something . can you please stop intercepting every thread on how you hate real estate agents and how you don,t take agents referrals and then you do but not many. so bull ****

can you please add something constructive to this thread, or stay off it. you seem to think you are the greatest inspector in the world and do not need agent help. remember we do not get work without real estate agents selling homes. i have asked for information on being licensed and what we here in colorado should be doing --NOT YOUR EVER CRAP ON HATING AGENTS AND YOU DON,T NEED THEM. PLEASE --seems you have so much time time to write endless ramble words. during those times you claim to be doing 7300 sq foot homes

help out or find another thread to bore us with

cvf

Hey Charlie

Hows it going

I am glad you pay attention. You just don't follow things that well but hey, who cares. Oh well, I hope all is Good. You have a good night now hear!

Oh yeah. Don't hate the Realtors or much of anybody Charlie. That would not be the good man that I am. I just believe that there needs to be a separation. Hm. Its seems many others do. What do you think that is all about.

Hey, by the way. Did you get off all those thank you letters to all those Realtors for feeding you this year. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings Charlie.

Just sayin! Have a good night now. I think I'll go look at the big screen a for a while.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

ted

what are you watching . realtor hate channel or your own -I AM THE GREATEST INSPECTOR IN THE COUNTRY

[ren ramsey]

CVF, The other Ramsey inspector is right about NC licensing. I have been an inspector since before we were licensed. I'll add is that there was a influx of HI to the industry when we became licensed. Prices did go down and are still down. This year the state upped the CE from 12-16 hrs and requires GL insurance. GL is not that expensive and you can take CE online so expect for the cost I don't think it has kept many out. I feel the loss of inspectors has been due to the economy. We lost about 25%+ NC and my area , near Charlotte, has been hit hard. 75%+ of my inspections are on short sales and foreclosures. One thing to strive for is trying to make it part of your law to make it illegal for HI to solicit Realtors and for Realtors to even mention an inspector or give out a list, like the did the appraisers for the mortgage brokers. Realtors should not be part of the inspection process, referrals or planning regulation.

[Hank Spinnler]

One thing to strive for is trying to make it part of your law to make it illegal for HI to solicit Realtors and for Realtors to even mention an inspector or give out a list, like the did the appraisers for the mortgage brokers. Realtors should not be part of the inspection process, referrals or planning regulation.

I would pass on that idea Mr. Ramsey. I would oppose licensing as well.

My business is running along smoothly without more government regulation and without Realtor involvement regarding proposed licensing.

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

Ren

to each their own. i don,t agree with your last paragraph. my realtors know i don,t mess around and give them the best toughest inspection they can get. and i do more seller to buyer inspections then foreclosures and short sales. guess things are different state to state. don,t know why so many inspectors don,t like realtors. after all we would not be in business if they did not exist. remember there are bad and dishonest inspectors and agents. just find the honest ones

cvf

[Randy Aldering]

In Michigan, most licensing prohibits convicted felons from any professional practice. We do not have licensing, but we do have at least one convicted felon (breaking/entering - theft) performing home inspections. THAT has to be good for the profession.

[Ted Menelly]

In Michigan, most licensing prohibits convicted felons from any professional practice. We do not have licensing, but we do have at least one convicted felon (breaking/entering - theft) performing home inspections. THAT has to be good for the profession.

Lets see. A stupid kid regretfully follows some clowns into a home even though he new and felt and believed it was wrong and illegal and did nothing but want to get out of there before he went in. A cop sees them go in. The kid is regretful as hell even before entering and is already on his way out just after entering to get the hell away from there and.................................... He cannot hold a Professional license for the rest of his life.

Sorry. In many many many....big percentage of cases, people become career criminals. But one screw up from pier pressure and no Professional license for the rest of his life.

Sorry but I for one find that completely asinine. Maybe a long probationary period and some counseling to determine if he is one of those career criminals but seriously....the rest of his breathing days?????????????????

I find that to be one of the most alarming and ridiculous things our justice system ever put forth. I am not talking kid as in under 18 were it may not be on his adult record but a legal adult (which most kids are certainly not adults at 18 as far as I am concerned.).

When exactly has someone paid for one stupid act he did as a kid/adult. Oh I know.

For Life!!!!!!! After he is gone we absolve him from that sin.

Before you ask. If outlined something like I put forth would I trust a 30 year old man who had one stupid act into my home to inspect it. Yes. As resounding yes.

[Raymond Wand]

How do you feel about an inspector in a previous profession that stole $300k from the school board now plying his trade?

I make no apologies, I am tired of criminals up here being treated with kidd gloves.

I understand that flogging criminals has a very low recidivism rate.

We have criminals out on bail committing other crimes.

Or how about CMI supposed police background cheques that are not conducted.

[Dan Harris]

How do you feel about an inspector in a previous profession that stole $300k from the school board now plying his trade?


Or how about CMI supposed police background cheques that are not conducted.

Raymond. Do you really believe that a crook would lie about their past on a notorized statement?

[Ted Menelly]

How do you feel about an inspector in a previous profession that stole $300k from the school board now plying his trade?

I make no apologies, I am tired of criminals up here being treated with kidd gloves.

I understand that flogging criminals has a very low recidivism rate.

We have criminals out on bail committing other crimes.

Or how about CMI supposed police background cheques that are not conducted.

I am not talking about a true adult stealing 300,000 from a school board or someone that is a career criminal, or a rapist or mas murderer. As a matter of fact the last couple of churches I know have people that have never been arrested, adults, that I can guarantee they committed crimes but charges dropped for some foolish reason, or should I say, the law.

I am not asking you or anyone for apologies for anything. I am just supplying real food for real thought. Just because someone did something foolish in their young life and paid the price..............I just don't think they need to pay that price for the rest of their breathing lives. I am quite sure there are way to many people to count that have committed sins against man kind and have never paid the price. You may have just hung out with him quite unsuspectingly .....last night. The difference between him and the poor fool that screwed up once in life paid the price but has always has been truly a good person. I will not condemn that man for the rest of his life. No professional license? Why don't we extend that and not let him work under a professional for the rest of his life. Lets go one further and have him supervised and followed the rest of his life. Lets just take everything away from him and never let him ever have anything.

What is a "professional" (I really don't need that explanation). Where does that invisible line get drawn. Don't continue on with education or just learning itself because you can never be a "Professional"!!!!!

[Raymond Wand]

Dan

People lie for all sorts of reasons whether its on an affidavit or otherwise, even on the witness stand.

[Garry Blankenship]

When TN started licensing in 2005 there were aboiut 400 inspectors in the State. Within a year or so, there was close to 900.
With the downturn in the economy, the number is back down to around 400 again.
The interesting thing I learned about licensing was you could be a licensed home inspector without ever having inspected a house. I was hiring an additional inspector when licensing started, and got several applications. The guy I ended up hiring had never done a home inspection. He had taken the training, passed the exam, and got E&O insurance.

Licensing did nothing to protect consumers in the State (the intended purpose).

Casting no shadow on you, but a licensing agency that licenses an inspector that has never done an inspection is worse than bad. The "training" you referenced should have included mandatory inspections. A tip - - - never get surgery from a surgeon licensed in your state ;)

[Raymond Wand]

Mike Holmes has never done an inspection, he only thinks he knows how and further demonstrates that he knows nothing by sub contracting inspectors to do the work for him.

[Matt Fellman]

It's ironic that a common gripe on this board is that we should be treated like doctors, lawyers and other professionals but then there are complaints about bare minimum standards amongst us in regards to behavior and education to perform the profession.

I don't necessarily have a strong opinion about licensing one way or the other and am generally not running around expecting to be treated like a doctor.... I'm just pointing out the irony.

[Randy Aldering]

Ted; FYI, this fellow is an adult, was when he committed the crime, and was when he was sentenced last year. No excuses. As far as kids making mistakes, maybe it is time for this country to get back to raising kids with a sense or responsibility and self-discipline.

[Ken Amelin]

I'm all for licensing. It's an important step in becoming a professional organization, But it is only a first step. The intent is to provide protection for both the consumer and the inspector.

Right now licensing is regulated on a state by state basis, which means our fate is in the hands of politicians and their politically motivated objectives.

Some states are also influenced by Realtors or builders or other special interest groups. They can all control what we do and don't do. - They influence the standards of practice, Liability, and police our profession, which is not always in the best interest of the profession. The State Board writes the rules and standards as they see fit - They go through the process of "public" input but it has very little influence over their decisions.

Our long range goal should be to work toward a national regulating board that controls our "Standard of Practice" - governed by the profession and industry experts, not politicians.

Similar to the "National Electrical Code". The electric code usually changes for improved safety and not for "More Votes". It can also be modified or changed by input from the profession or experts in our field.

There was an effort by A.N.S.I. to develop a national standard which I thought was a move in the right direction. Unfortunately, too many "tree hugging" organizations and politicians put a quash on it.

In order to succeed we need a strong National Influence. Today it is too fragmented with no real strength in the numbers.

[Lon Henderson]

That study by Butler College that found no significant differences between states with HI licensing and those without is very interesting and shouldn't be surprising. In every licensed profession and trade, there are licensed individuals that are not proficient in their practice. In most professions, obtaining a license is usually, as simple as passing a test, even if a very difficult test.

As we work to create licensing in Colorado and I study what other states have done, I am realizing that creating meaningful and effective licensure is indeed difficult. And I am starting to wonder how beneficial existing licensure in the states with it, really is to both HI and the public.

[Larry Morrison]

The real proof as to if licensing would make better inspectors or rather protect the public, would be to check the rates of E&O of inspectors in states with licensing and those that do not require it. (I don't think unlicensed states have a higher rate, because they don't seam to have any bigger problem with (more) litigation. They play a #s game based on risk. I have held licenses in a couple of different fields. Frankly, I think licenses can limit a good inspectors freedom to do a complete job. I have heard many times where State regs will limit an inspector on how far you can report on WDI, Radon and or Mould. (or even if you can udder the "M"-word)

my opinion is that most licensing is a tax and someone is going to pay it (the consumer). I also like personal responsibility and accountability.

Why is it in most states, the hours of training required to cut hair is many times longer (about 10X longer) than it is to become a certified EMT?

[Jeffrey L. Mathis]

Well, this is one rambling thread. Bottom line is simple for my simple mind. Licensing presents an up-front investment of time and money on the part of the applicant. That automatically weeds out some competition. Continuing education weeds out some more. What little insurance requirements we have weed out some more. (I wish E&O was required) I'm quite happy to minimize my competition because reality is that no matter how much you'd like to have it different, Realtors will dictate the majority of our business. The out of town buyer will almost always tell the agent to call whomever THEY like. I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to get around the crap Realtors while not pissing off the ethical ones.
Licensing does protect the consumer. But mostly, it protects me.
Jeff Mathis
Greenville, NC

[Lon Henderson]

Update on licensing in Colorado:

At the last minute, or at least, the last week before a bill had to be submitted to the Colorado legislature, the Colorado Association of Realtors decided that the proposed bill might not be passed and instead, submitted an application regarding licensing to the Sunrise review process. Next October, the Dept. of Regulatory Agencies will make a recommendation as to whether they deem licensing home inspectors in Colorado is needed or not.

And so it goes..........

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- - - Updated - - -

[Randy Aldering]

Update on licensing in Colorado:

At the last minute, or at least, the last week before a bill had to be submitted to the Colorado legislature, the Colorado Association of Realtors decided that the proposed bill might not be passed and instead, submitted an application regarding licensing to the Sunrise review process. Next October, the Dept. of Regulatory Agencies will make a recommendation as to whether they deem licensing home inspectors in Colorado is needed or not.

And so it goes..........

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- - - Updated - - -



- - - Updated - - -

Isn't it funny how they always seem to get involved in home inspector licensing.

[Ted Menelly]

And to think "The Colorado Association of Realtors" had the yeah or neigh in all this?????

Why are they even involved in something they know nothing about anyway.

Home Inspections should be completely independent of Realtor Associations. They are two completely separate businesses.

Never mind!

[Rick Bunzel]

Randy,

In Washington State the association of Realtors (.ie WAR) was pretty neutral throughout our licensing effort. The main catalyst was a technical school that had some politicians in there pocket. The revised bills kept coming back with huge education and CE requirements. The local inspectors would ralleye and bring things into alignment until we got a bill we could live with. One thing that did change after we were licensed was the 3 inspector referral rule. Realtors can be fined if they only refer one inspector. This does make things a bit more competitive but the established Realtors still do what they want.

//Rick

[Ken Amelin]

Randy,

In Washington State the association of Realtors (.ie WAR) was pretty neutral throughout our licensing effort. The main catalyst was a technical school that had some politicians in there pocket. The revised bills kept coming back with huge education and CE requirements. The local inspectors would ralleye and bring things into alignment until we got a bill we could live with. One thing that did change after we were licensed was the 3 inspector referral rule. Realtors can be fined if they only refer one inspector. This does make things a bit more competitive but the established Realtors still do what they want.

//Rick

In our state the law makes it illegal for Realtors to make any referrals for inspectors. They can't provide a list of three, four, five or whatever. They are only allowed to provide their clients with a "hand out" sheet from the state that provides a website of all licensed inspectors.

But like Rick stated, it doesn't much matter what the law says, the Realtors still do whatever they want, and refer or badmouth the inspectors of their choice.

The home inspection law is much tougher on inspectors as they have to answer to the "Home Inspector Board" -- "Overzealous bunch" while Realtors face the "Realtor Board" for disciplinary action. The Realtor Board is not as tough and usually sympathizes with them.

[Scott Patterson]

In our state the law makes it illegal for Realtors to make any referrals for inspectors. They can't provide a list of three, four, five or whatever. They are only allowed to provide their clients with a "hand out" sheet from the state that provides a website of all licensed inspectors.

But like Rick stated, it doesn't much matter what the law says, the Realtors still do whatever they want, and refer or badmouth the inspectors of their choice.

The home inspection law is much tougher on inspectors as they have to answer to the "Home Inspector Board" -- "Overzealous bunch" while Realtors face the "Realtor Board" for disciplinary action. The Realtor Board is not as tough and usually sympathizes with them.

I thought it was only the listing agent in MA that is not allowed to recommend inspectors but a "buyers" agent can recommend inspectors for their clients......

[Ken Amelin]

I thought it was only the listing agent in MA that is not allowed to recommend inspectors but a "buyers" agent can recommend inspectors for their clients......

Your correct with that. It is only for sellers or listing brokers.

[Lon Henderson]

I'm all for licensing. It's an important step in becoming a professional organization, But it is only a first step. The intent is to provide protection for both the consumer and the inspector.

I disagree. I submit that licensing does next to zero in improving professionalism.

We might be seeing a reverse trend in professional licensing in it's earliest infancy being born. In July, Kansas let their five year old license law sunset. A few other states have tried deregulating some professions including home inspectors and a few others are discussing it. The Belmont University study in Ohio found little difference in professionalism between states with HI licensing and those without (in the sampled states).

Many people have a knee jerk reaction......"You mean anyone can hang their shingle and call themselves a home inspector? Why isn't there a law?"

That may be understandable but when pressed to name a profession where licensing has removed the incompetent, the lazy, or the bad characters, they confess that there aren't any.

I think licensing creates a false sense of security with folks. Most people fall into the trap of thinking, "he/she is licensed, so they must know what they are doing." When a profession is unregulated, people, at least some, will do more due diligence in researching when hiring someone rather than just pick a name based strictly on price.

A good argument for licensing is that bad licensees can be disciplined by a regulatory board, and while there is merit to that argument, for someone harmed by a licensed professional, the recourse remains the same.........sue them.

[Larry Morrison]

I agree with Lon Henderson 100%!

Licensing means nothing except it puts more money into the State coffers and creates a few jobs for those in government.

A good indication of if licensing has any effect on the quality of inspectors out in the field would be to look at E & O insurance rates. I'll those that are in a stat that requires licensing are not getting any break on their rates because they are les of a risk at screwing up missing things, or turning out bad reports...that put the public at risk.

Back in the early 80s, Colorado did way with Vehicle Inspections because those "they were licensing" were screwing over the pubic by selling them unnecessary break jobs, squirting oil on their shocks and claiming they needed new shocks or struts... After they did away with the "State Approved" inspection stations....accidents caused by faulty equipment actually went down, not up! Why? because people can take care of their own things better than if hey are lulled into
thinking the State is looking out for them.

I've been gone from Colorado for over 25 years, I hope they didn't get someone into the state legislature that reinstated the Car inspection requirement...But if they did, I'll bet that Legislator is getting a payoff somehow from that licensing requirement.

[Ken Amelin]

All professional people (in this state) are licensed

To name a few: Doctors, lawyers, Dentists, Nursing, Anesthesiologist, Teachers, Electricians, Plumbers, HVAC Contractors. AND ALL FOR GOOD REASON - It protects the people and it sets a STANDARD OF PERFORMANCE for these professionals. Additionally, it requires many of these professionals to carry E & O insurance to pay for errors or neglect. Licensing also requires the professional to have a level of experience, work under a mentor for a period of time and take continuing education and training.

All of the above - keeps the rift-raft out, It takes money, educations and commitment to remain licensed. Professionals that require licensing have to maintain a set standard or the can loose their privilege to practice.

Licensing "Increases professionalism" - MAKE NO MISTAKE.

Suing someone with no insurance or no assets means nothing - you can get all the suing-in you want but you get nothing from nothing.

Is it perfect - NO of course not,

"But to all those that are against licensing I ask you this - would you hire a non-licensed heart surgeon in a non regulated industry to operate on you???? Would you allow a non licensed surgeon to even practice the profession???

We need some sort of protection from sleaze bags. Would you buy a bottle that was labeled Aspirin, if you couldn't be sure it was real?

Really!! Be real!!

What benefit is there to the consumer if professionals are not licensed?
What protection is there to the consumer if the professional is not required to be insured? (don't say "take em to court").
What standard of performance would you expect from non-licensed, non regulated professionals (buyer beware attitude?)

I would like to hear the benefits of not being licensed?? Can you name a few?? I can't.

[Randy Aldering]

Randy,

In Washington State the association of Realtors (.ie WAR) was pretty neutral throughout our licensing effort.

//Rick

Sure. And back on 2009, the MAR claimed that they, too, were "neutral." But, I was able to throw a "privileged communication" clause into the bill. The people at MAR and the trail lawyers flamed out and went nuclear. Their response was a "strict liability" clause amendment. It would have been very interesting had the bill passed. One or the other of those would never have withstood court tests; my best guess is that it would have been the strict liability clause that would have been found to be unreasonable. We will never know.

In the end, we remain unlicensed, which is a double-edged sword. The true reason for licensing is industry capture - nothing else. There are peripheral benefits for some groups, but licensing tends to benefit those that are doing what is being regulated at the time regulation is initiated.

As it is, there are now more people in Michigan calling themselves home inspectors than ever before. Too many of those will end up being $25,250.00 home inspections for the buyers.

And so it goes.

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Randy,

In Washington State the association of Realtors (.ie WAR) was pretty neutral throughout our licensing effort.

//Rick

Sure. And back on 2009, the MAR claimed that they, too, were "neutral." But, I was able to throw a "privileged communication" clause into the bill. The people at MAR and the trail lawyers flamed out and went nuclear. Their response was a "strict liability" clause amendment. It would have been very interesting had the bill passed. One or the other of those would never have withstood court tests; my best guess is that it would have been the strict liability clause that would have been found to be unreasonable. We will never know.

In the end, we remain unlicensed, which is a double-edged sword. The true reason for licensing is industry capture - nothing else. There are peripheral benefits for some groups, but licensing tends to benefit those that are doing what is being regulated at the time regulation is initiated.

As it is, there are now more people in Michigan calling themselves home inspectors than ever before. Too many of those will end up being $25,250.00 home inspections for the buyers.

And so it goes.

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Now why the devil did it do that?

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Now why the devil did it do that?

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

ken does a license make you a good driver--a good dentist--a good real estate agent--a good lawyer--a good baker -a good chef--a good nurse. i dont think so it is a piece of paper--my people know how good i am---cvf

[Larry Morrison]

I think for the most part, Licensing is a mindset and those in states that grow accustomed to more regulation, "feel" it is better this way, when the #s really don't pan out. It's the same with may aspects when it comes to control. States like MA and CA have lots of rules and after a time the people accept this control and want more of it.

Is the cancer rate lower in California because of the requirement to put a label on everything that may cause cancer in the state of California? I'm not even going to ring up licensing and control of Firearms vs crime rates in different states.....MA vs UT or NY vs CO, ID, AZ....No, I will not bring that up...
I like living in a state were we have freedoms to succeed or fail. It is called personal responsibility. I do not see any evidence that Sates that license HIs protect the consumer. But I can see that the added cost of the regulations do figure in to the price of the home! And that harms the consumer and their ability to purchase a home.

[Jerry Peck]

ken does a license make you a good driver--a good dentist--a good real estate agent--a good lawyer--a good baker -a good chef--a good nurse. i dont think so it is a piece of paper--my people know how good i am---cvf

Charlie,

Not Ken here, but no license makes anyone "better", but licensing DOES provide the ability to place controls and punishment on the licensed persons who are "bad" at whatever they are licensed to do, whereas not having licenses means not having ANY controls other than 'take them to court', yeah, right, some of us here have been debating the relatively minor cost of inspection reports being passed along and used and that 'no one will go to court over that' - it is not 'the cost', it is the theft of the services, and one even stated that there is no comparison between architects and home inspectors because of - get this - 'cost value' - all 'cost value' has to do is whether or not the theft is 'petty' or 'grand' but it is still theft ... oh, yeah, this is still on topic as that 'theft' would not have occurred (in Oregon) without the inspector being licensed and the law stating such.

That is just one advantage of licensing ... however, there can be 'good' licensing and there can be 'bad' licensing, and sometimes in the same statutes.

There ARE distinct advantages to having to be licensed.

There ARE distinct dis-advantages to having to be licensed.

NOT being licensed does NOT make one a better inspector, so why do you and some other think that being licensed is supposed to make one a better inspector? Seems to me you and the other are putting forth the argument that NOT being licensed makes one a better inspector - are you really saying/meaning that?

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

jerry---say what--dont get where you are going with this---cvf

[Ken Amelin]

ken does a license make you a good driver--a good dentist--a good real estate agent--a good lawyer--a good baker -a good chef--a good nurse. i dont think so it is a piece of paper--my people know how good i am---cvf

Charlie, The piece of paper does not make a person a good anything, but it does as I mentioned previously protect the purchaser of the service through mandatory E & O insurance, it ensures that a minimum standard is met and it requires the person who conducts the service to have minimum qualifications and continued education.

So now will you please answer my question. - How does NO licensing or NO regulation make the home inspection industry more professional??

I challenge any of you who are against licensing to respond.

[Scott Patterson]

After reading and hearing the same arguments from folks on this thread and on similar threads over the years it is evident that most who do not agree with licensing also do not understand that a good licensing program also protects the inspector. Yes, a license law offers protection and in most cases some relief to the consumers who have been damaged in one way or the other; but on the other hand the home inspector is also provided a safety net of sorts.

I have also observed that many who are against licensing share a common fear; and that is the fear of having to meet any new requirements to obtain a license. Some are fearful, some just do not feel they need to justify anything and others just do no want to be told they must do something.

Prescribed state standards offer far more protection in the eyes of the court over the association standards that many spout about using. Many good licensing programs also place a time limit of liability, some have one year, many have 3 years. If you are in an unlicensed state you liability is most likely 5-7 years and in some cases even longer if an issue arises and is taken to court.

I have worked under a home inspector license for over 14 years in one state; 7 & 3 years in two other states and I have performed inspections in several other states that do not require a license. I can honestly say that I feel safer from the liability standpoint of working in a licensed environment.

This debait will continue but with only 16 or so states not being regulated in some form or shape it will become increasingly difficult to justify not being licensed to the consumer and to the law makers across the country. License programs are not cash cows for the States coffers, they normally produce just enough revenue to support the administration part of the program and often they do not do that. This is why many states lump all of their licensing programs in a licensing division instead of a freestanding department.

[Ted Menelly]

Your correct with that. It is only for sellers or listing brokers.


I guess I did not know that either. The sellers agent stands to make as much as a listing agent so why is it just the listing agent that cannot refer.

I could and do understand why both should be out of the picture of home inspection. But one and not the other.

Probably been answered but I skimmed by and caught that.

[Dan Harris]

Another perspective on lic or no lic.
From my experience from being involved in complaints against inspectors for the past 7 years in a licensed state 50% or more of complaints are not valid. A lot of them are a result of a contractor trying to sell the client something, others are simply due to the client not understanding what our limitations are.
If that's the case the state advises the alleger the inspector did meet the states standards, and the complaint is closed.
From my understanding once that happens its a lot harder for the client to prove his case with legal action, and or trying to collect on the inspectors insurance.

Question for inspectors in un licensed states.
If a client has a complaint against you how do you handle it without hiring a lawyer, paying to correct an item, or refund the inspection fee to make it go away?

[Lon Henderson]

For those in Colorado: The sunrise review was released yesterday. The conclusion of the review is:

Recommendation – Require all home inspectors in Colorado to obtain a license prior to providing home inspector services. Licensed home inspectors should be required to pass both an examination and a fingerprint-based criminal history background check prior to obtaining a license. A seven-member home inspector board should be created to provide regulatory oversight of home inspectors. Licensed home inspectors should be required to complete continuing education.

Presumably, a bill will be introduced creating licensing for home inspectors in this session. It still has to pass, of course. If passed, it's unlikely that it will take effect until late next year and more likely sometime in 2017.

[Raymond Wand]

Lon wrote in part:
A seven-member home inspector board should be created to provide regulatory oversight of home inspectors.

I think thats a very good idea it takes the conflicts and inadequacy of associations to oversee their own. Levels the playing field. Thats what I would like to see occur up here in Ontario.

[Lisa Endza]

Charlie, your state's Department of Regulatory Agencies, Office of Policy released an association membership requirement comparison on Friday. See page 8 of their Sunrise Review http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/Colorado-DORA-Home-Inspection-Industry.pdf

[Lon Henderson]

Charlie, your state's Department of Regulatory Agencies, Office of Policy released an association membership requirement comparison on Friday. See page 8 of their Sunrise Review http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/Colorado-DORA-Home-Inspection-Industry.pdf
In one our meetings, we had a representative from DORA (I forget his name), who told us that there was zero chance that DORA would accept any association's exam as a qualifier for a license. Rather, DORA would create its own test that all HIs would be required to take (read that as no grandfathering).

Of course, even if that is DORA's position today, it isn't in concrete or what will be in the actual license law.

The Sunrise recommendation of 24 hours of continuing ed every 3 years mirrors the requirement for Coloradan real estate agents. That that is far less than any of the HI associations require.

For Coloradan HIs, next year will be interesting.

[Lon Henderson]

In Colorado:
On 1/16 we had a final meeting with the Senator introducing the license bill for final tweaks. Senator Todd is planning to introduce the bill on 1/23.

The real fun is about to begin..........

[Raymond Wand]

Lon

I assume you've seen this?

2014 Sunrise Review: Home Inspectors

http://cdn.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&blobheadername2=Content-Type&blobheadervalue1=inline%3B+filename%3D%22Home+Insp ectors+-+2014+Sunrise+Review.pdf%22&blobheadervalue2=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1252040107101&ssbinary=true

[Mike James]

This may be a little late for your original post. But the change has been recent (6 mos). In Texas.. The Texas Administrative Code states that you first need to be a assistant inspector, get a license for that for a fee of 150.00 bucks or so and be sponsored. Only then can you apply for a HI license. You must submit fingerprints for background checks on each subsequent renewal. To get an HI license you must go through the apprentice process for at least 3 months B4 you can even apply. Then the cost is 220.00 for the next 2 years. Etc....

It seems to me that this is more about money and revenue as is most things in Texas. Then of course you have to have liability insurance to cover each occurrence if a dispute arises of at least 100,000 (per occurrence). You must show that insurance is in place prior to issuance of the license and it will be revoked if it is found that you have none. Additionally, if you violate any of the administrative laws in this process and are found guilty, the state will revoke any other licenses you hold with them even if they have nothing to do with HI.

As I have read in these posts, these laws have little if nothing to do with how good or bad you are as an inspector, and everything to do with recovering revenue that may not ordinarily get. But this is just my opinion. If any Realtor wants to champion license requirements.... My suggestion to them would be to bend over and spread them wide. Somebody has to pay for it.

Just one mans opinion....

notes for my meeting--can you or anyone tell me how do you get a license in your state to be a HI-requirements

[Lon Henderson]

Lon

I assume you've seen this?

2014 Sunrise Review: Home Inspectors

http://cdn.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&blobheadername2=Content-Type&blobheadervalue1=inline%3B+filename%3D%22Home+Insp ectors+-+2014+Sunrise+Review.pdf%22&blobheadervalue2=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1252040107101&ssbinary=true

Oh yeah. I was in regular contact with the author while he did his research.

[Scott Patterson]

This may be a little late for your original post. But the change has been recent (6 mos). In Texas.. The Texas Administrative Code states that you first need to be a assistant inspector, get a license for that for a fee of 150.00 bucks or so and be sponsored. Only then can you apply for a HI license. You must submit fingerprints for background checks on each subsequent renewal. To get an HI license you must go through the apprentice process for at least 3 months B4 you can even apply. Then the cost is 220.00 for the next 2 years. Etc....

It seems to me that this is more about money and revenue as is most things in Texas. Then of course you have to have liability insurance to cover each occurrence if a dispute arises of at least 100,000 (per occurrence). You must show that insurance is in place prior to issuance of the license and it will be revoked if it is found that you have none. Additionally, if you violate any of the administrative laws in this process and are found guilty, the state will revoke any other licenses you hold with them even if they have nothing to do with HI.

As I have read in these posts, these laws have little if nothing to do with how good or bad you are as an inspector, and everything to do with recovering revenue that may not ordinarily get. But this is just my opinion. If any Realtor wants to champion license requirements.... My suggestion to them would be to bend over and spread them wide. Somebody has to pay for it.

Just one mans opinion....

notes for my meeting--can you or anyone tell me how do you get a license in your state to be a HI-requirements

If you would do a little more research you will find that home inspector licensing usually cost more than it brings in to the coffers and for many states they are just happy to breakeven.

[Lon Henderson]

Looks like we are thinking on the right track Raymond. I don't think distance or Association can separate the thoughts of those who are true Professional's in this field.
7 is a good number.;)
In our deliberations, I advocated for no mention of any associations in the law, but was out voted. At last Friday's meeting, we approved a change in the HI Board from seven to five; three from each of the "big" three HI associations and two members selected at large by the governor.

If licensing becomes law here, Colorado will have reciprocity with other states having similar requirements for licensing. Existing HIs here having sufficient experience, i.e., 200 paid inspections, etc. will be "grandfathered", but will have to have E&O to continue to practice.

In Colorado, the Dept. of Regulatory Agencies, creates its own exams, so none of the HI association's exams will be accepted. If not grandfathered, new HIs will have to pass a test created by DORA after taking "approved" schooling or coursework.

Of course, the bill may not pass or could be heavily modified in legislative deliberations.

[Raymond Wand]

In our deliberations, I advocated for no mention of any associations in the law, but was out voted. At last Friday's meeting, we approved a change in the HI Board from seven to five; three from each of the "big" three HI associations and two members selected at large by the governor.


At least with two independent outside appointees the associations won't be able to sweep stuff under the rug. Hope that's the way things go up here. We have too many business interests and conflicts on the licencing panel set up by our consumer affairs ministry in my view.

Good for you Lon! Associations should be left out of the equation, too bad it didn't fly. You're not just another pretty face. You're a smart fella.

[Lon Henderson]

Update for licensing in Colorado: It's dead for now.

Today in the Senate committee hearing, they voted to kill it. We may well revisit this in a couple of years, but for now......it's over.

[Raymond Wand]

Congratulations, or should I say I am sorry to hear that? ;)

[Lon Henderson]

Congratulations, or should I say I am sorry to hear that? ;)
On one hand, we had compiled a good bill that all of us felt like we could support. On the other hand, most of us didn't see a need for it and none of us heard a demand from the public for licensing. Some of us have concerns that a future bill might be more objectionable, so it's a mixed response. No crying in our beer but no party either.

[Lon Henderson]

Wow! The Denver Post got on it quickly.

Senate committee kills bill to license Colorado home inspectors - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_27508159/senate-committee-kills-bill-license-colorado-home-inspectors)

[Lon Henderson]

I don't know how many inspectors from Colorado read this forum, but a heads up for any who do. Licensing for home inspectors is coming to Colorado. With the democrats regaining control of the Colorado Senate, the Colorado Association of Realtors (CAR) immediately began putting together a Sunrise request for a new license bill. The Sunrise has been assigned to an analyst and the Sunrise review is underway. The recommendations of the Sunrise will come out in October, 2019. A bill will be submitted for vote and the vote will likely be in January or February of 2020. We will probably see licensing requirements take effect in the summer of 2020.

The bill that the home inspector community put together and advocated back in 2014 was well thought out and balanced. I have started campaigning with CAR and a few legislators to dust off that bill and resubmit it when the time comes. Licensing will surely happen this time and we need to make sure the license bill is a good one.

And, the radon mitigation industry in Colorado has submitted a Sunrise request to license radon mitigators and testers in Colorado which would require any home inspector who does radon testing here to get certified and licensed. I don't know what chance this will have of passing, but I wouldn't bet against it.

[Gunnar Alquist]

I don't know how many inspectors from Colorado read this forum, but a heads up for any who do. Licensing for home inspectors is coming to Colorado. With the democrats regaining control of the Colorado Senate, the Colorado Association of Realtors (CAR) immediately began putting together a Sunrise request for a new license bill. The Sunrise has been assigned to an analyst and the Sunrise review is underway. The recommendations of the Sunrise will come out in October, 2019. A bill will be submitted for vote and the vote will likely be in January or February of 2020. We will probably see licensing requirements take effect in the summer of 2020.

The bill that the home inspector community put together and advocated back in 2014 was well thought out and balanced. I have started campaigning with CAR and a few legislators to dust off that bill and resubmit it when the time comes. Licensing will surely happen this time and we need to make sure the license bill is a good one.

And, the radon mitigation industry in Colorado has submitted a Sunrise request to license radon mitigators and testers in Colorado which would require any home inspector who does radon testing here to get certified and licensed. I don't know what chance this will have of passing, but I wouldn't bet against it.

Lon,

Please keep us updated as to what happens and how it progresses. CA is not licensed at this time either. I understand many of the positives and negatives and personally, I am on the fence as to whether it provides adequate protection for buyers and owners. I do see a conflict of interest when it is overseen by the same organization that oversees real estate agents.

[Marc M]

Lon,
I do see a conflict of interest when it is overseen by the same organization that oversees real estate agents.
Ya,.. we all know how ethical those idiots are.
On that note.. if they just did away with the realtors referring their "rubber stamping yes men" then that would also weed out the idiots and PTers.
It would effectively narrow the paying field down to two reasons the client will choose you.. price and / or experience.

Someone should've just called me before they write that bill into law, would save them a ton of time and effort. :p