Reversed polarity

[Gary Mohel]

What is the ramification of a receptacle that has the polarity reversed? Obviously we note it on inspections and I know it's incorrect but I would like to be able to explain to a client what the ramifications of this incorrect wiring is. Thanks.

[Vern Heiler]

What is the ramification of a receptacle that has the polarity reversed? Obviously we note it on inspections and I know it's incorrect but I would like to be able to explain to a client what the ramifications of this incorrect wiring is. Thanks.

If a lamp is plugged into the receptacle the base of the socket is hot instead of grounded.

[John Arnold]

Here's a diagram of correct wiring. With reversed polarity, as Vern said, the outside of the socket becomes energized, posing a shock hazard.

[Eric Barker]

I would like to be able to explain to a client what the ramifications of this incorrect wiring is. Thanks.

Tell them that their wide screen TV doesn't do well with power going backwards.

[Gary Mohel]

Thanks a lot. That's very helpful.

[Vern Heiler]

Tell them that their wide screen TV doesn't do well with power going backwards.

I've never tried it. What happens? Are reruns the only thing you can get?

[Steven Turetsky]

I've never tried it. What happens? Are reruns the only thing you can get?



I tried it, and the shows played in reverse. Totally screwed up Jeopardy.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

What is the ramification of a receptacle that has the polarity reversed? Obviously we note it on inspections and I know it's incorrect but I would like to be able to explain to a client what the ramifications of this incorrect wiring is. Thanks.

Death! That is the reason we now require polaraized cord caps and receptacles (and that the connections thereto are not reversed)!

[Lon Henderson]

You will be electrocuted in reverse unless south of the equator. So you can see how confusing this can be for the layman.

Just tell clients that polarity is very important for safety and proper function of any device that has a polarized plug. You can spend all day explaining if you aren't careful.

[Tom Iovanne]

I believe the other issue posed by reversed polarity regards any switched equipment that's plugged in. Switches are designed to stop power as it enters the equipment, keeping internal components from the potential of being energized, but reversed polarity allows internal components the potential of being energized... all the way back to the switch on the way out of the equipment! Bad situation for anyone messing around inside a piece of equipment when they think the switch is providing protection.

[Garry Sorrells]

Tom, Vern;
Glad to see a rational comment as apposed to the exaggerated DEATH answer.
You did hit it right on the nose with the switch. Most devices are not that picky. Alternating is alternating. Prior to the three prong plug we survived, some how.

[Jerry Peck]

Prior to the three prong plug we survived, some how.

Garry,

True, but remember .... FEWER OF US SURVIVED ...

It's thinking that which defeats general safety improvements - you probably think GFCI are a waste too. jeez. :rolleyes:

[Garry Sorrells]

Jerry,
Natural selection is being thwarted by man and his propensity to allow inferior genes to propagate through efforts to protect the stupid and the weak. :D

GFCI only allows the people that would dry their hair while taking a bath to survive. :eek:

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry,
Natural selection is being thwarted by man and his propensity to allow inferior genes to propagate through efforts to protect the stupid and the weak. :D

GFCI only allows the people that would dry their hair while taking a bath to survive. :eek:

Or use electric lawn mowers, other electric tools, refrigerators in garages and unfinished basements, boat lifts ... the list goes on and on ...

GFCI protection is not for STUPID PEOPLE ... STUPID PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO KILL THEMSELVES ... GFCI protection is for faulty equipment and accidents ... such as someone has a portable heater plugged in and on the bathroom counter to take the chill out of the room while taking a bath, then some else - or something else, anything else - causes that heater to fall into the tub.

You have not yet redeemed yourself on this one ... :p

[Garry Sorrells]

Or use electric lawn mowers, other electric tools, refrigerators in garages and unfinished basements, boat lifts ... the list goes on and on ...

GFCI protection is not for STUPID PEOPLE ... STUPID PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO KILL THEMSELVES ... GFCI protection is for faulty equipment and accidents ... such as someone has a portable heater plugged in and on the bathroom counter to take the chill out of the room while taking a bath, then some else - or something else, anything else - causes that heater to fall into the tub.

You have not yet redeemed yourself on this one ... :p

Only the stupid would put an electric heater on a counter next to the bath tub. :cool:
Only the weak would need the chill taken off. Natural selection would remove the wimpy that need the chill taken off in the bath room while they took a bath.;) Leaving the heartier stock to reproduce.:)

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

use a double insulated motor driven tool with a conductive case or carbonized plastic switch, via a polarized outlet with reverse polarity and should there be an event with the tool, you've electrified the case and dangerously shocked the user (which could or would lead to death with a dangerous fibrulation or worse, or possibly electrocuted the user outright).Double insulated - first "insulated" is insulated conductors, second "insulated" is the hot & ground are "insulated" from the case - reverse polarity and what wiring that is intended to be defaulted to the neutral is now sent to the case. Motors run just fine with reverse polarity.We switch the hot, not the neutral for good reason.The electrified shell of a lamp holder is also an example already provided by another poster.I'm not impressed with the eugenics/natural selection argument Sorry that's beyond sad and not the least bit funny.We went from tens of thousands of fatal shocks per year to thousands, to several scores from use of household appliances, toys, lamps (as intended) as polarized receptacle outlets were mandated. Improved further with mandated GFCI protections beginning with pools and extended to home areas: bathrooms, laundries, kitchen countertops, etc. Improved further getting rid of bootleg grounds in the mid 80s and finally corrected deficiencies in the bonding/grounding in the former two code cycles. The "code" still has a long way to go - the ITA and industry stall on packaged spas not requiring bonding to equipotential was a step backwards. If your commentaries and contributions are intended as ironic or sarcastic "humor" you also fail in that regard, IMO. If you're serious, that's very sad. Is a "deadly serious" subject. The OP asked what are the ramifications of reversed polarity - the ramifications are death. Property damage is secondary. Its a LIFE SAFETY "thing".

[Garry Blankenship]

Virtually everything manufactured with an electrical cord cap is made to be safe or at least relatively safe with correct polarity. Reversing the polarity renders those manufacturing safeguards useless and exposes users to shock hazzards. The alternating current function is probably not effected, but the reference to ground is. It's an imperfect example, but processing your Thanksgiving dinner backwards is contrary to design :rolleyes:

[Garry Sorrells]

Ramifications of reversed polarity can range from absolutely nothing to death. But jumping to death directly is to dramatic for a good answer. The ramifications of driving a car is not death and property damage, just one potentiality. He did not request the most severe ramification did he?

My comet about natural selection perceived as "ironic or sarcastic "humor"" possibly, it is more a philosophical statement about society in general. Knowing that some only see everything in the most negative without exception. I do not have a problem poking them with a stick one in a while. Also, there is no sacred cow here. Every thing has a deadly serious ramification.

Maybe this will help our day::)

Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU)

:)

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Ramifications of reversed polarity can range from absolutely nothing to death. But jumping to death directly is to dramatic for a good answer. The ramifications of driving a car is not death and property damage, just one potentiality. He did not request the most severe ramification did he?

My comet about natural selection perceived as "ironic or sarcastic "humor"" possibly, it is more a philosophical statement about society in general. Knowing that some only see everything in the most negative without exception. I do not have a problem poking them with a stick one in a while. Also, there is no sacred cow here. Every thing has a deadly serious ramification.

Maybe this will help our day::)

Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU)

:)

"Driving a car" is NOT a valid comparison. Operating an UNSAFE car (perhaps one with the exhaust routed to the interior, the windows and doors sealed, and no functioning brakes...down hill, and into cross traffic, MIGHT be.

Do you know what "ramifications" actually means? A consequence, problem, possiblity, outgrowth, etc. DEATH is a very real possibility from a reversed polarity (unsafe, miswired) energized electrical system!

[John Kogel]

Here's a potential for death from Friday PM. The laundry room is in the basement. There are plenty of ways to ground yourself on plumbing or a wet floor.
Hot and neutral are reversed. So the switch on the washer opens the neutral, and Hot goes to the circuit board and the motor, which are permanently energized.

The seller evaded death, so natural selection didn't work on him. If it kills my client or someone in his family, what is that, homicide? Or just an unfortunate accident?

[Jerry Peck]

Every thing has a deadly serious ramification.

And who just jumped directly to "death" ... as in "deadly serious". :p :)

[Donald Bissex]

When describing reversed polarity to a client, I keep it simple with Vern's light bulb socket example. Very easy to understand. Then I ask the client to think about their electronic gear with electricity going to the wrong places. They get the idea real quick. I recommend repair by an electrician as a health/safety item.

[Jimmy Roberts]

Tom, Vern;
Glad to see a rational comment as apposed to the exaggerated DEATH answer.
You did hit it right on the nose with the switch. Most devices are not that picky. Alternating is alternating. Prior to the three prong plug we survived, some how.

While alternating current is used, the center tap (neutral) of the utility transformer is connected to earth ground. Therefore, the neutral conductor at the receptacle and at the appliance, is at ground potential. The phase conductor is above ground. Older appliances which do not have a polarized plug, allow the potential for feeling the phase (hot) side. Few people have been injured by the old wiring method, but that leaves several people who have been injured by touching a "hot" appliance cabinet. Like all other updates to the NEC, polarized connections and proper grounding, are updated due to people or property being injured or damaged.

[Daniel Rogers]

reversed wiring (reversed polarity is a misnomer) is definately a risk of electrocution so I would say death is the worst ramificatiuon.

[William Zoller]

"Well, that just about covers the fly byes." (Top Gun)

[John Kogel]

John I am trying to figure out why you put the picture of the sink! Is it because of the upside down plug in extension cord or no GFCI protection near the wash tub?That is the washing machine cord on the right, grounded copper plumbing pipes in the middle, metal sink as well. Best shot I had of it.

You could likely be in contact with both machine and faucet at some point, as well as standing on damp vinyl on a concrete floor - well grounded and touching an energized device.

Yes the machine should be grounded by the cord, so if the chassis became hot from a loose connection, it should blow the breaker. However, we can't be sure the grounding is intact to the machine. The rubber feet could insulate the machine from ground. It is most certainly a shock hazard. All it takes to cause a heart muscle to fibrillate is 1/10 of an amp of electrical current.

It was a well known fact in the 30's and 40's that a way to dispose of someone was to drop a live radio into their bath water. Those radios have live current running thru their metal chassis. The wooden or Bakelite knobs helped to prevent shocks. Plenty of people were shocked and many of them died. The old and feeble and the very young are most vulnerable. Maybe that is why the younger lads don't see the hazard. We don't have to live with the daily hazards that older folk like HG had to endure. :D

[Garry Sorrells]

"Driving a car" is NOT a valid comparison. Operating an UNSAFE car (perhaps one with the exhaust routed to the interior, the windows and doors sealed, and no functioning brakes...down hill, and into cross traffic, MIGHT be.

Do you know what "ramifications" actually means? A consequence, problem, possiblity, outgrowth, etc. DEATH is a very real possibility from a reversed polarity (unsafe, miswired) energized electrical system!


HG, Yes I do really know what ramification means. The question may be do you.
Actually you incorrectly restated, though possibly not incorrectly interperated his wording when you wrote " The OP asked what are the ramifications of reversed polarity - the ramifications are death."

The OP did ask about the "ramification" (singular) and I was commenting on the direct jump to DEATH. I should have prefaced that we seem to use ramification in the plural even though not written as such. So a ramification can be death as it could produce no negative effect. So we are really talking about ramifications (plural). I may be wrong with my interpenetration of the OP by Gary "What is the ramification..." that he was looking for more than one ramification (consequence). I would agree that if you had to list one extremely serious ramification it would be death. Though being put into a vegetative coma would be worse than death in my personal opinion.

As for ""Driving a car" is NOT a valid comparison. ", it is possible to die as the result of the actions of another while in the car. Thus a ramification (consequence,possibility) of being in a car. Which is one of many ramifications (plural). Lets not be so myopic in the parsing of the words. :rolleyes:

Humor that is sarcastic, dark or otherwise is often lost to you. Sorry. :) Though John seemed to get it.

Still would like to know the definitions of the "Smiles" since many just do not see or understand them. :confused:

[Garry Sorrells]

Point of curiosity.

When were two prong plugs/outlets first made as polarized. Changed from plug prongs of equal dimensions.
Where the a male plug prong and a female outlet slot were of larger size? (Prior to the use of 3 prong plugs/outlet.)

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

The earliest polarized receptacles I am aware of date back to the first two decades of the last century, similar obsolete designs existed for cord caps as well ("plugs") as well as screw shell adaptors. The bladed "plug" or cord cap and bladed screw shell adaptors as well as receptacle patents go back to at least the later part of the first decade of the last century in the US.

Common to find polarized in obsolete designs even before the late 20s, including AC bladed "receptacles" as well as early DC systems (hence the "polarized" nomenclature which continues to this day).

I have linked to a wiki article numerous times in the past, you can find it readily by searching the forum, wiki, or the www.

Obsolete, pre-NEMA standard configurations were numerous and styles/history throughout the different parts of the world myriad.

Back to life-safety issues. UNLIKE portable GFCI tap sets, household GFCI breakers and GFCI combination receptacles, combination GFCI receptacle/switches, and GFCI "deadfronts": although monitoring differential in N & H: do NOT break the designated N (grounded conductor), but break (open) ONLY the "designated" HOT (ungrounded) when triggered.

WE have not allowed distribution system neutral fusing for many scores of decades. You DEFEAT the safety (opening/"breaking") features of the GFCI device by reverse wiring, a wiring error, or "reverse polarity" or a reverse-inserted-non-polarized cord-cap, for those precious moments (semi-cycles) sufficient to deliver an injurious or fatal shock.

Stored energy devices (caps, tubes, etc.) and the required configuration (example fuse btwn operator switch and operator) inherent and required safety wiring design can be likewise defeated by "reverse wiring" at the tap/supply. Objectional current can be evidenced esp in MWBC (shared source neutral) supplied convenience (120V) receptacle circuits, (backfeeding), etc.

Non polarized cord-caps on "cords" are still supposed to be correctly wired to the device. The "groove" and marking on the "zip" cord is desinative as to which "side" is to be used for the "hot" vs. the "neutral" for wiring the device.The "smileys" are named in the text editor window software the forum host has selected and set. There are a host of sources on the internet which discuss their use (going back to pre-graphical interfaces for text - pre "WWW" early direct b.b.s.).

Finally, your singular/plural "the ramification" vs. "the ramifictionS" argument doesn't "hold water"! Both singular and plural phrasing was used by the Original Poster, in his Original Post! HE used both the singular and PLURAL form of the word. He preceeded the closing with the PLURAL (although he used the singular form of the verb ("is" should have been "are").


What is the ramification of a receptacle that has the polarity reversed? Obviously we note it on inspections and I know it's incorrect but I would like to be able to explain to a client what the ramifications of this incorrect wiring is(sic). Thanks.

The Original post opened with a premiss including a "given" set which included a receptacle which is incorrectly supplied (reverse wiring). There was nothing shared as to what the circumstances actually were - nor how the hypothetical was determined (false indication of reverse wiring given by using an "outlet tester" with grounding type receptacle which is NOT supplied with a proper equipment grounding, for example) or use of same on a MWBC with one hot leg open). There was no mention of same having been of a grounding type, or for that matter a polarized type (although somewhat implied, but not necessarily) either .

Requirements to use polarized receptacles pre-date requirements those requiring the use of grounding-type receptacles for convienence outlets. IIRC were mandated about the time screw-shell adapters phased out and convenience receptacles required 15A supply (phase-out of 10A 120V receptacles) between the late 20s and early 40s. The first grounding-type receptacles were required in laundry areas (late 40s), expanded slightly in the late 50s, and throughout homes in the early 60s. The standards for safety first originated in the Listing requirements - they then were incorporated into the actual code as were myriad other safety factors all further interdependant.

I have no desire to trash the writing style of the OP, but Sorrells bringing such up to justify his trashing ot other's contributions or the style thereof is so hypocritical as HE can't grasp the use of TO vs. TOO, MANNER vs. MANOR, etc. has some nerve skipping over the use of the plural "the ramifications" by the Original Poster (OP) in his simple one-paragraph original post.

The ramification (singular) is that it would be an unsafe DEFECT, deficiency. The ramifications (plural) include DEATH. Life-safety/DEATH "drive it home" to the "client".

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

That is the washing machine cord on the right, grounded copper plumbing pipes in the middle, metal sink as well. Best shot I had of it.

You could likely be in contact with both machine and faucet at some point, as well as standing on damp vinyl on a concrete floor - well grounded and touching an energized device.

Yes the machine should be grounded by the cord, so if the chassis became hot from a loose connection, it should blow the breaker. However, we can't be sure the grounding is intact to the machine. The rubber feet could insulate the machine from ground. It is most certainly a shock hazard. All it takes to cause a heart muscle to fibrillate is 1/10 of an amp of electrical current.

It was a well known fact in the 30's and 40's that a way to dispose of someone was to drop a live radio into their bath water. Those radios have live current running thru their metal chassis. The wooden or Bakelite knobs helped to prevent shocks. Plenty of people were shocked and many of them died. The old and feeble and the very young are most vulnerable. Maybe that is why the younger lads don't see the hazard. We don't have to live with the daily hazards that older folk like HG had to endure. :D

The radio didn't have to be plugged in, undischarged vac tubes would discharge when chasis hit the water. I believe you are remembering use of a plugged in toaster which could still be in "off" position, but unpolarized plug engaged "in reverse" would still be energized, or in "on" position with plug either way.

Grounding an "Edison" system (3-wire 120/240 Vac) residential was "recommened" since 1903 NEC, required since 1913 NEC. Polarized receptacles were prominent and common in the 20s. Requirements to properly wire (shell connected to the groundED conductor) and "polarize" light fixtures (luminaires) present in the NEC since the late 20s, required use of "polarized" outlets (screw adapters & bladed receptacles) about the same time.

"reverse" wiring (reverse "polarity" convienence receptacle, luminaire, etc.) allows an appliance in the "off" position to still be energized while "plugged in". Switching the neutral (grounded) conductor hasn't been allowed for scores of decades - an open neutral elimiates the potential reference to ground - and the very SAFETY factor it provides.

Ever "unplug" an appliance while it is energized (not actually "off")? An arc at the receptacle face is not uncommon while doing so.

[Rich Goeken]

.....Maybe that is why the younger lads don't see the hazard. We don't have to live with the daily hazards that older folk like HG had to endure. :D

John... you're walking a tight plank with those fighting words! :D

I'd like to add two events that personally happened to me.

1st. Was working in a a hot attic, a long while back when electric drills were metal. Picked up the drill just as my arm just grazed a pipe (metal). Received the "Tinge" and immediately dropped the drill. House had receptacles that were old non-polarized. Changed to another drill (plastic) and didn't use the other one ever again. It could have been loose/no ground, winding breaking down in drill, receptacle wired wrong, whatever. I was lucky.

2nd. Recently a neighbor asked me to repair a very old converted oil lamp, probably from back in HG's time. It's a good thing that she wasn't using it---when I took it apart one side of the non-polarized line cord was connected to the button in the lamp socket, the other went to the switch and then to the outside of the socket and the frame. Needless to say, I replaced the socket and the line cord during the restoration.

Hello to the "young folk". With al the hemming & hawing about this topic---These are examples of why receptacles and line cords are now polarized.

[Tim Stolba]

I've been told by many people that if you were to plug a touch lamp into a reversed polarity outlet that you'd definitely be shocked. Plus it's bad for electronics. There are plenty of other Safety Hazards scenarios but that list is to long to write.

[Jerry Peck]

I've been told by many people that if you were to plug a touch lamp into a reversed polarity outlet that you'd definitely be shocked.

I recommend changing your wording from "definitely be shocked" to "increased potential to be shocked".

I've touched may socket shells which were 'hot' from reverse polarity before polarized plugs came out and was not shocked, because the lamp was not grounded and I was not grounded.

[Michael Chambers]

There may not be a direct correlation, but on a home maintenance inspection a couple of months ago, the client commented that she'd had bad luck with refrigerators. She had been having to buy a new one almost every year. When I checked the refrigerator outlet, it had reversed polarity.

By the way, Jerry's right, you won't get a shock from a hot wire if you're not grounded, or otherwise closing the circuit. Prudence dictates that it's still not recommended however.

[Jason Willgruber]

Well, I've been a member of this board for three years, and this is my first post, though I am not an an inspector (hence my lack of posts), but I am a homeowner and am here for general knowledge.

My home was built in the late 1940's, and had two-prong receptacles throughout the house, except in the laundry area. Thankfully, it was wired with BX cable, which was grounded, and the fuse box was replaced at some point with breakers. However, throughout the house I have found quite a number of wiring faults and some reversed wiring.

But! back to the point...

I have an older (1950's vintage) fryer, which has (well, had) a non-polarized cord end. I was cleaning it, (boiling out with detergent and water) and had it over the sink (stainless steel) to drain. The fryer was off at the time, and I had touched the fryer and the sink at the same time and got a pretty good zap from it. Needless to say, it received a new polarized cord after that.

We may have survived without grounding and polarized cords/receptacles, but for the most part it was likely by chance and common sense. I have many lamps, fans, vacuums, etc that do not have polarized or grounded cords, though I have the sense not to stick my finger in a lamp socket when it's plugged in, regardless of the type of cord it has.

Unfortunately, it seems as though we live in a sue-happy society where common sense is not so common, and the general public has to be protected from themselves...

As I saw mentioned, vintage radios (not to mention Television sets!) had a big issue with live chassis when plugged in the wrong way, or even the right way when turned on, depending on the design of the set. I collect and restore antique radios and TV's, and I have seen a few that have had notices printed on the back that state to reverse the plug under certain circumstances. However, the danger wasn't in the vacuum tubes - they're no more dangerous than a light bulb (at least the type found in most radios). The real danger lies in the electrolytic capacitors, which can remain charged if the circuit doesn't have bleeder resistors in the circuit, as many don't.

[Jason Willgruber]

Deleted due to multiple post

[Rick Cantrell]

Well, I've been a member of this board for three years, and this is my first post, though I am not an an inspector (hence my lack of posts), but I am a homeowner and am here for general knowledge.

My home was built in the late 1940's, and had two-prong receptacles throughout the house, except in the laundry area. Thankfully, it was wired with BX cable, which was grounded, and the fuse box was replaced at some point with breakers. However, throughout the house I have found quite a number of wiring faults and some reversed wiring.

But! back to the point...

I have an older (1950's vintage) fryer, which has (well, had) a non-polarized cord end. I was cleaning it, (boiling out with detergent and water) and had it over the sink (stainless steel) to drain. The fryer was off at the time, and I had touched the fryer and the sink at the same time and got a pretty good zap from it. Needless to say, it received a new polarized cord after that.



Jason
Glad your here and thanks for posting

The problem with your fryer is not likely caused by a non polarized plug, and replacing it is unlikely to completely correct the problem you describe.
I think what has happened is the heating coil has partly shorted to the fryer body. If so this is dangerous and the fryer should be discarded.
You can check by using a ohm meter.
Touch one lead to the body, and the other to a plug blade, test both blades.
If there is any continuity between either blade and the body, through it away (the fryer, not the meter).