Poly-B plumbing repair

[Peter Louis]

The Poly-B has to be cut & connnected to pex. But the plumber said it may result in further leaks on Poly-B. My question is once a section of poly-B needs to be replaced, what can we do?

[Rick Cantrell]

It is best to replace all PB pipe.

[Jerry Peck]

It is best to replace all PB pipe.

Yep ... re-pipe the entire house.

[Peter Louis]

repipe whole is not possible at this stage. this is a Town house strata repair due to a dripping hose tap (need to be replaced) but hard to access. Cut section of PB & repipe is an easy solution.

[Lon Henderson]

repipe whole is not possible at this stage. this is a Town house strata repair due to a dripping hose tap (need to be replaced) but hard to access. Cut section of PB & repipe is an easy solution.
HELLO!!! as stated above and from your plumber......you cannot "fix" just the leak on poly and think you have done anything. You might as well stick your chewing gum on the leak and wrap some electrical tape on it. That'll be real easy and do just as much. Poly is a "pay now or pay later, but you will pay" proposition. There is no easy solution unfortunately. Townhouses and condos can be repiped even if inconvenient. I've seen two done.
Sorry, sometimes the answer isn't what we want.

[Peter Louis]

this 20 yrs TH complex never had problem with Poly-B. This case is from the Tap replacement.

[Benjamin Thompson]

You got your answer. If you don't like it, ask a different question.

[Peter Louis]

You got your answer. If you don't like it, ask a different question.


Well, the easy solution is to tell the owner to re-pipe the whole. But it does not make sense just because of a worn tap. I talked to another local plumber & found this one Watts PEX Poly-B Adapter | Canadian Tire (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/Plumbing/PexPipeFittings/PRDOVR~0631480P/Watts+PEX+Poly-B+Adapter.jsp?locale=en)

even the sharkbite could do.

Thank you everyone's input.

[Dom D'Agostino]

Well, the easy solution is to tell the owner to re-pipe the whole. But it does not make sense just because of a worn tap....

Re-pipe is the only answer.


... 20 yrs TH complex never had problem with Poly-B.
And a light bulb is fine for years, until one day--it isn't. That logic about "never had a problem in umpteen years" makes no sense at all.

[Raymond Wand]

Hi Peter

Here is information for you to sort through.

What You Need to Know About Polybutylene Plumbing (http://www.repipenews.com)

CSA International - Consumers - Consumer Tips (http://www.csa-international.org/consumers/consumer_tips/default.asp?load=polybutylene&language=english)

Polybutylene Piping, Plumbing - Environmental Hazard (http://www.propex.com/C_f_env_polybu.htm)

Polybutylene Pipe Class Action | Products Liability Class Actions, Polybutylene Pipe Class Action Lawsuit - Class Action Canada (http://www.classaction.ca/actions/Products-Liability/Current-Actions/Polybutylene-Pipe.aspx?caredrected=1)

CBC Marketplace: Leaky Plastic Pipes (http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/pre-2007/files/home/pipes/index.html)

[Dave Hill]

I had to have my home re-plumbed due to PB piping. Luckily I was able to get in on the class action lawsuit against Shell Oil. It was all paid for. I also want to comment on the "it can't be done" statement. Anything is possible. I'm sure this isn't the first townhouse to have this problem. Good luck with the re-plumb, it will be over before you know it.

[Dennis Webber]

this 20 yrs TH complex never had problem with Poly-B. This case is from the Tap replacement.The reason is, poly fails in the connectors due to exposure to chlorine in the water supply. This is why some installations are working well after 40 years and other failed after 10.

The general thought is, once one connection fails, the others are not far behind. But, they could go for years without problems. If it didn't fail due to water condition, that is tap connection, then the system could last for ... who knows. It all comes down to how much exposure to chlorine the connectors have been exposed to.

[Lon Henderson]

The reason is, poly fails in the connectors due to exposure to chlorine in the water supply. This is why some installations are working well after 40 years and other failed after 10.

The general thought is, once one connection fails, the others are not far behind. But, they could go for years without problems. If it didn't fail due to water condition, that is tap connection, then the system could last for ... who knows. It all comes down to how much exposure to chlorine the connectors have been exposed to.
While there has been failure of the brass connections because of the zinc leaching out of the brass, the other major point of failure is stress points in the installation. Over time, the actual poly is deteriorating and weakening as some of the compounds that give it flexibility are leached out. I've seen a few leaks at sharp bends.

Some years ago, I inspected a 16 year old townhome with poly. I cautioned the buyer about poly. She called me six months later to tell me that she wished she had taken my advise. She had just spent a few thousand replacing all the poly. A leak had sprung at a bend inside a wall.

Earlier this year, I inspected a condo with poly. The buyer called me the next day. She had contacted the HOA who told her that the complex had had numerous problems with leaks. She got the seller to repipe the condo. Being a top floor unit, she doesn't have to worry about anyone above her.

But I bet, every HI here who has done this for a while has similar or better stories about poly.

[Dale Trach]

The OP is from British Columbia, Canada & the earliest PolyB pipe we see here is about 1981-82.
Acetyl fittings were used until approx. 1989-90 and are flagged as an insurance issue.
In the last 6-8 months we are getting feedback from clients & Realtors that home insurers are asking for plumbers to check all PolyB piping regardless of the type of fittings.
We have not experienced the leaks like we hear of in the eastern & SW states.

[Vern Heiler]

The OP is from British Columbia, Canada & the earliest PolyB pipe we see here is about 1981-82.
Acetyl fittings were used until approx. 1989-90 and are flagged as an insurance issue.
In the last 6-8 months we are getting feedback from clients & Realtors that home insurers are asking for plumbers to check all PolyB piping regardless of the type of fittings.
We have not experienced the leaks like we hear of in the eastern & SW states.
Do you know how the plumber checks the PB pipe? Do they cut out a piece or just look at the outside like we do?

[Ron Hasil]

I love it when a poster comes along with a question about the right way to do a plumbing repair. Then when they get the answer they do not want to hear, they get all defensive. They will come up with all these other solutions to avoid doing it right. One of the reasons I stopped posting on DIY forums. To many came on asking questions, us plumbers tell them how to do it to code. Then they say they do not have to follow their local codes since they are doing the work themselves, or they are out in the boonies so no code applies (which is 100% wrong they have to follow state minimum codes).

[Mike Clarke]

I would agree that replacing it all would be the best solutions. but there are many people that just can not afford to do the totally right thing at that time, so not knowing the circumstances, maybe they just can not afford to do so at this time ?

[Ron Hasil]

I would agree that replacing it all would be the best solutions. but there are many people that just can not afford to do the totally right thing at that time, so not knowing the circumstances, maybe they just can not afford to do so at this time ?

I always ask them this " Can you afford all the water damage that is caused by the PB failing when you are not home to turn it off?" You either pay now to fix it right, or pay a lot more latter to fix it right and repair all the damage caused by it.

**NOTE*Images are provided for dramatic effect, it is unknown what kind of pipes are used in the pictures**NOTE**

[Raymond Wand]

Peter did not say whether this is a common element (the spigot) in which case its the corporation who ultimately decides what gets replaced and to what extent.

[Dale Trach]

Do you know how the plumber checks the PB pipe? Do they cut out a piece or just look at the outside like we do?

Very good question, did not think to ask.
Is there an ASTM in the U.S?
I know Engineer's will cut out copper pipes on circulating systems to analyze life remaining.

Have you seen a cut out piece Vern?
What is it we don't want to see at cross-section or inside?

[Vern Heiler]

Very good question, did not think to ask.
Is there an ASTM in the U.S?
I know Engineer's will cut out copper pipes on circulating systems to analyze life remaining.

Have you seen a cut out piece Vern?
What is it we don't want to see at cross-section or inside?

I was hoping you were going to answer that! I have seen cuttings from PB repairs but have not seen the scaling or crystallizing that is pictured in link provided by Raymond Wand. The chlorine level may be much lower than in many parts of the country here, I don't know? I do know that I have never seen the PB leak other than at plastic fittings. I have seen a half dozen copper pipe pin hole leaks in the last nine years. I have also seen many splices form PB to PEX and copper with no leaks, usually at a water heater replacement. I still inform the client of the history of PB and put the mandated statement, required by the NC licensure board, in the report.

I don't know how a plumber could inspect the condition of the inside of the pipe without cutting it. If the pipe is crystallized it would not be possible to repair the test cut. Who would be responsible for the replacement of the full section of pipe, or as many have suggested, the full system?

[Peter Louis]

Hi, guys:

Sorry, I did not make it clear. The story was the GC came in to fix the dripping hose bib(anti-frost tap), which he noticed it had a broken seat other than just a washer replacement. He cannot remove the seat then decided to replace the tap. I imagined the easy way was to cut the poly-B pipe close to foundation in crawl & couple with a piece of Pex, then pull the whole tap & pipe out. In this case he can put on the new tap on Pex & couple the Pex to Poly-B in crawl, done. But after he talked to a plumber, he hesitated to touch the Poly-B. I talked to another plumber who said my suggestion was fine. Though I left him alone, I post here to get some idea.

There was nothing wrong with PB in the case. Yes, I knew PB had bad fame & disappeared on market. But in our area, most PB piping with copper tubing, actually I had never seen any damage caused by PB since I start HI. I have seen the failed copper piping.

Thanks