NH Bill to have wood stoves removed

[Garry Sorrells]

New Hampshire Bill to force removal of older wood stoves by seller.
Thought it was interesting. Wounder if stove manufactures were behind it.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legi...13/HB0307.html (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2013/HB0307.html)

HB 0307 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2013/HB0307.html)

[Eric Barker]

That isn't such a bad idea. Most stove I see are incorrectly installed and when you add age into it you're starting to look at a significant safety concern.

[Jim Robinson]

I'm pretty sure they are coming at it from a clean air angle, more than safety. Is the smoke from a fireplace much different than from a wood stove? 1986 would be about 25 years old, which would cover A LOT of stove in NH.

[John Kogel]

I don't suppose there will be any sympathy for the hundreds of guys that cut and sell firewood for a living?

Firewood is renewable and employs local Americans. Petroleum is not renewable. Petroleum purchased from the Middle East helps fund Al Quaeda.

End of rant. Good luck with it. :D

[Benjamin Thompson]

They voted for it now they got it. One step closer for those environmentalists to freeze in the dark:D

[Bob Harper]

They could have hosted a "Great Stove Changeout" as done in other states including Vt. This is where mfrs. offer discounts on stoves, liners and factory chimney. The old polluting clunkers get recycled, the new cleaner burning stoves reduce pollution while stretching wood supplies and everyone uses less energy while burning a fuel that might otherwise have gone to waste. Part of a stove changeout is a professional safety inspection. This law circumvents that so by simply removing old stoves, may unsafe installations will remain. More bad gov't intrusion.

For links to other hearth issues, you can always check the HPBA's website on legislation, local issues, etc.: Hearth, Patio and Barbecue Association (http://www.hpba.org)

HTH

[Peter Russell]

This bill is in it's early stages and has not been voted on yet and I doubt it will pass.

There is wording in there that says these wood stoves must be destroyed and notice of such sent to NH Dept. of Environmental Services. This will create paperwork on an already over burdened dept.

It also requires the designation of densely populated areas within the state and only wood stoves in these designated areas would be required to be removed/destroyed.

It's poorly written and doubt it will pass, especially in a state were our residents depend on wood for heat.

I believe the NH BOR are apposed to this bill as are many others.

A true clean air initiative would be to do something about all the pollution and gases that fall on our state from the mid west factories.

[Bob Harper]

The hearth industry has been under attack by the EPA for pm2.5 emissions. Never mind that one small forest fire generates many times more such emissions than all the woodstove smoke for a whole year. The hearth industry is an easy target and they want trophies to hang on their wall. They are not about to go after the trucking industry with their unions so we are the logic choice to them.

The hearth industry is also being attacked by the CPSC and the DOE. The DOE just lost in federal ct. this week blocking their attempt to outlaw your typical vented gas logset. The Hearth, Patio and BBQ Assn. had to sue in federal ct. for the right to sit at the table and argue their case as the primary stakeholder in this initiative. It was overturned in favor of the HPBA as being too overbearing and unfair. We're sure they will appeal to the Supreme Ct. All this is costing taxpayers a fortune while bankrupting the hearth industry, which is their goal all along.

The CPSC wants us to make screens to fit over glass front direct vent fireplaces to protect unsupervised children from burning their hands. Parents are too stupid and too lazy to watch their kids so they have sued to force this industry to not only make cool to touch screens but add ugly warning labels that a fireplace gets hot. This is intended to be retroactive while would require millions of dollars in re-listing every fireplace they can and drive many from the marketplace thus costing thousands of jobs in the process.

Your government at work for YOU!

[Terry Beck]

May be a bit off topic, but it we have rules about old wood stoves.

Missoula County in Montana has rules about fireplace inserts and old wood stoves, but that is due specifically to air quality issues (http://www.co.missoula.mt.us/airquality/AirQualityTopics/WoodstovesAndFireplaces/index.htm). Upon sale of a home, wood insets and old stoves are supposed to be removed or disabled. Older homes with fireplaces are grandfathered and can keep them. Newer pellet stoves and high efficiency wood stoves are allowed. All wood burning devices are supposed to be registered with the county (yeah, right!).

Missoula sits in a valley that tends to have weather inversions in the winter. Air quality was horrible in the 70's, but that was also partly due to a number of pulp mills and wood product manufacturers that used to be in the area (now all out of business). We have burn and non-burn days that apply to a variety of smog producing activities including wood stoves.

Now, as to enforcement, that is another question.

Air quality has improved a lot, except for the horrible smoke we get from wild fires in the forests in Western Montana, and smoke that drifts in from huge forest fires in the wilderness areas of Idaho. Beetles have killed off millions of pine trees in the forests, making them into great fire tender. With global warming, it is getting worse (it takes a couple of weeks of cold below -20 degrees to kill the beetles, and our winters have been getting warmer). Unfortunately they can't seem to do much to control the bad air quality from forest fires.

[Bob Harper]

The Great American Wood Stove Changeout (http://www.woodstovechangeout.org/fileadmin/templates/clearing_the_smoke.html)

Missoula Fire Lab (http://www.firelab.org/)

Montana is thought of as big clean air country but as Terry pointed out, local conditions can and do impact outdoor air quality in a big way. See the first link for a major success in Libby (yes, the WR Grace vermiculite/ asbestos case)

The second link is to show that Missoula is one of the major centers for forest fire research and firefighting in the us. It is where they train smoke jumpers, too.

I'm all for replacing these polluting clunkers but I'm even more interested in weeding out all those unsafe installs and such programs must include the inspection piece for me to get behind it. What's the point in clearing the air if no one is left to breathe it?

[BridgeMan]

It's been a State law here in Oregon since 2010--any wood stove not on the EPA's clean burn list has to be destroyed when a property is sold. And it applies to any other building on a sold property, too, such as separate work shops or studios. It's even illegal to sell a wood stove that's not on the clean list. Not sure how strictly the law is enforced, though.

[Stephen Tilleux]

I don't suppose there will be any sympathy for the hundreds of guys that cut and sell firewood for a living?

Firewood is renewable and employs local Americans. Petroleum is not renewable. Petroleum purchased from the Middle East helps fund Al Quaeda.

End of rant. Good luck with it. :D

You do know that clean burning stoves and fireplaces are availble and will still need wood deliveries. Also natural gas is a domestic product.

[Matt Fellman]

It's been a State law here in Oregon since 2010--any wood stove not on the EPA's clean burn list has to be destroyed when a property is sold. And it applies to any other building on a sold property, too, such as separate work shops or studios. It's even illegal to sell a wood stove that's not on the clean list. Not sure how strictly the law is enforced, though.

From what I see here in Oregon it's not strictly enforced at all.... Somehow, in all their glory, the banks on REO properties have put the responsibility back on the buyers. On normal purchases everyone just kind of looks at each other, scratches their heads and moves on. There's really no way to enforce it unless a buyer were to complain afterwards and they've usually, at least verbally, agreed to keep it.

The only real enforcement of things like this in houses comes from homeowner's insurance companies. I just did a house for an adjuster (or something related) from Allstate that said they are one of the only companies doing interior on-site inspections before they write policies. Old woodstoves and Fed Pacific panels were on the "must be removed" list. He suspected within the next 5-10 years the industry would move this direction and all insurance companies would start coming inside.

It's kind of like the "Snapshot Discount" for plugging that thing into your car.... it's billed as a way to save money. Pretty soon if you don't let big brother watch you you'll pay a HUGE premium.... and after that you won't be able to get auto insurance.

[Bob Harper]

75% of all our "natural gas" comes from wells here which takes very little refining. There are private wells that burn unrefined gas as well. 25% of our methane is derived from the refining of crude oil, whether domestic or imported.

We are now importing Liquified Natural Gas or LNG as well.

Wood is considered carbon neutral since it would rot and release the carbon back into the environment anyway. As stated, modern EPA Phase II stoves burn very cleanly and efficiently meaning that's less oil and gas we have to mine or import. Meanwhile our governments are striving to ban woodburning in the name of pollution while not saying boo to the trucking industry for the same pm2.5 emissions.