bare bulbs in closets - important reminder

[Markus Keller]

As many probably do I call out bare bulb fixtures in closets. I'd say about 1/2 the time I do that and the listing agent is nearby they go into some routine about how ... "that's just overboard, that doesn't really happen, the inspector is just being picky or trying to find things to write up", etc.
You know the routine.
On today's inspection I checked the bedroom closet and looky what I found.
The buyer was horrified. The listing agent was actually really nice and left the Seller a letter explaining the issue.
I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.
I'm going to print out a few copies and keep them in my kit.

[Jerry Peck]

I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.

Markus,

Excellent photos of what can happen.

To download the photos from IN, click on the thumbnail, after it opens through the magic of Brian's software, click the photo and it will (at least they do on my Google Chrome) open in a new tab, now right click over the photo and select 'save image as' or whatever wording it says indicating that you can save it.

[Bob Elliott]

Yes people knock into them with boxes and I also ask them to not use metal pull chains on them which might conduct electricity if threaded side is live and exposed by busted porcelain.

Article 410 Luminaries (Lighting Fixture), Lampholders, and Lamps

Article 410.8 (B) Luminaries (Fixture) Types Permitted. Listed. The following types of light fixtures shall be permitted to be installed in a closet. Closets (Clothes and storage) eight (http://www.nachi.org/forum/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif square feet (0.74 m²) or larger one of the following type of light fixtures shall be installed:

1. A recessed incandescent fixture with a completely enclosed lamp operated by a wall switch.

2. A surface mounted or recessed fluorescent fixture with a completely enclosed tube(s) operated by a wall switch.

410.8 (C) Luminaries (Fixture) Types Not Permitted. The following fixtures are not permitted:
1. Surface mounted incandescent fixture with enclosed, partially enclosed or open bulbs.
2. Pendant Style
3. Lampholders

Exception:
Walk-in closets of larger area where no storage exists within forty (40) inches (1016 mm) in any direction of a vertical line extending from the floor to ceiling, away from the wall, incandescent fixtures with totally enclosed bulb(s) may be used. Said light fixtures shall be operated by a wall switch.

[John Kogel]

Thanks, Marcus. Here's one from my library.

[Raymond Wand]

Its not only closet lights. Pot lights above shelving or even interior doors under pot lights can be of concern.

Good find Markus.

[D. Murray Watson]

How did your write your statement
As many probably do I call out bare bulb fixtures in closets. I'd say about 1/2 the time I do that and the listing agent is nearby they go into some routine about how ... "that's just overboard, that doesn't really happen, the inspector is just being picky or trying to find things to write up", etc.
You know the routine.
On today's inspection I checked the bedroom closet and looky what I found.
The buyer was horrified. The listing agent was actually really nice and left the Seller a letter explaining the issue.
I thought some of you might want these two pics to use as examples. I don't actually know if they can be downloaded from IN or not. If not send me a PM and I'll email them to you.
I'm going to print out a few copies and keep them in my kit.

[wayne soper]

my boilerplate Bare bulb fixtures are present in the home.We recommend globed fixture installation for safety.
There are dangers associated with light fixture bulbs that are not covered with a globe in an area like a closet. These bare light bulbs often get very hot and can become an ignition source to start a fire in your home. These light bulbs are usually found in attics, closets and crawl spaces. The worst case scenario usually is a closet light. This will either be a plastic or porcelain light fixture, with or without a pull chain.
The danger starts when this hot bulb is either placed too close to combustible materials and they touch or nearly touch the light bulb, or something in the closet falls off of a shelf and right into contact with the bulb.
By installing a light fixture that has a glass globe, the combustible materials will not be able to come into contact with the light bulb, thus nearly eliminating the chance of a fixture starting a fire. Be sure to leave ample room around light fixtures when storing thing s in a closet. This will lessen the dangers of a fire and bring you peace of mind.

[D. Murray Watson]

WOW! Thank You

[Welmoed Sisson]

Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.

[Billy Stephens]

Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.

That would not make my Report.

[Welmoed Sisson]

That would not make my Report.

Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.

[Billy Stephens]

Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.

Wire Insulation Identification and Application Guide (http://www.omega.com/temperature/z/wireinsulation.html)




MAKE
WATTS
TYPE of BULB
TEMP (°F) @ 12"
TEMP (°F) of Lamp Fixture





2 min
5 min
10 min
2 min
5 min
10min


ZooMed
150
Infra-red Spot
149
159
171
77
80
82


ZooMed
160
MV Flood 'Powersun'
96
106
115
85
95
102


Westron
160
MV Flood 'MegaRay SB'
98
112
128
74
77
84


ESU
150
Incandescent 'Nocturnal BL'
143
164
165
100
118
118


ESU
150
Incandescent 'Brightlight'
191
209
218
75
77
79


ZooMed
150
Flood 'Basking Lamp'
181
186
195
105
114
123


ZooMed
100
MV Flood 'Powersun'
118
131
136
98
116
118


T Rex
100
MV Spot 'Active UV Heat'
93
114
136
84
102
113


ESU
100
Incandescent 'Nightlight'
134
150
152
78
80
83


ESU
100
Incandescent 'Brightlight'
165
188
194
77
79
81


ACE
100
Halogen Flood
205
226
226
77
82
86


ZooMed
100
Ceramic Heat Emitter
101
127
140
75
99
104


GE
100
Halogen Spot Lamp
158
257
271
75
82
87


GE
100
Halogen Flood Lamp
128
178
187
74
86
88


GE
75
Incandescent Spot 'Black Light'
92
101
103
89
96
97


GE
60
Incandescent 'Black Light'
102
109
112
93
94
105


GE
60
Incandescent Clear Glass
169
176
178
75
81
86


Westron
60
Inline MV Flood Lamp
95
97
103
90
93
98


Westron
60
Inline MV Spot Lamp
130
146
150





Westron
60
Heat Emitter
98
112
130
77
79
80


GE
50
Halogen Spot Lamp
185
193
196
76
85
88


GE
50
Halogen Flood Lamp
123
138
141
74
78
81

[Raymond Wand]

Welmoed

Wise to have mentioned the concern.

As you can see by the chart, there is no indication of a bulb touching the wiring only from 12 inches away.

[Billy Stephens]

Welmoed

Wise to have mentioned the concern.

As you can see by the chart, there is no indication of a bulb touching the wiring only from 12 inches away.

The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
* put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.

[Raymond Wand]

Yes 'fixture' temperature, not the light bulb temperature.

Check via Google what the temp of the exterior bulb can reach.

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/uts/essay1.pdf

Globe of a bulb can reach 300-400 Celcius.

[Billy Stephens]

Yes 'fixture' temperature, not the light bulb temperature.

Check via Google what the temp of the exterior bulb can reach.

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/uts/essay1.pdf

Globe of a bulb can reach 300-400 Celcius.

Published by the World Renowned Expert Philip Austin ?
* hope things pickup for ya Raymond.:)

[Raymond Wand]

For your further edification.

The surface of a 75 watt incandescent bulb reaches about 125 C, whereas the surface of a halogen lamp ranges from 250 to 600 C.

[Billy Stephens]

For your further edification.

The surface of a 75 watt incandescent bulb reaches about 125 C, whereas the surface of a halogen lamp ranges from 250 to 600 C.

Thanks Ray, I'll take that under advisement.

[Raymond Wand]

Thats okay I knew you couldn't defend your proposition.

So I did a reading using an iR thermometer on an bare 50-100-150 (wattage) tri-light bulb.

After the bulb had been on for 5 minutes the surface temp taken at the top of the bulb was
302 f. and when switched up to 100 watts the temp measured at the top of the bulb was 420 f.

Of course at 150 watts the temp went to 560 f.

You should care your negligent advice could find an inspector in trouble. Then you say you don't care.. real professional of ya. Like they say, you can't fix stupidity.

[Billy Stephens]

The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
* put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.


Thats okay I knew you couldn't defend your proposition.

So I did a reading using an iR thermometer on an bare 50-100-150 (wattage) tri-light bulb.

After the bulb had been on for 5 minutes the surface temp taken at the top of the bulb was
302 f. and when switched up to 100 watts the temp measured at the top of the bulb was 420 f.

Of course at 150 watts the temp went to 560 f.

You should care your negligent advice could find an inspector in trouble. Then you say you don't care.. real professional of ya. Like they say, you can't fix stupidity.

Ray, Ray, Ray,

My post have been on a wire touching the fixture and bottom of a bulb in a Supply Closet.
*not a cloths closet with a foam pillow stuffed around it.
** find something else to Fret About ( have you had your Meds Checked as of late? ):confused:

[Raymond Wand]

If you can't support your claims claiming you were only speaking about the bulb touching the wire; is nonsense. Then to ad disclaim to your theory you post a chart which doesn't even relate to the issue. And if you cared to enlighten yourself you will see the temp of a bulb from an authoritative article, and by fact actual measurement of a 50 watt bulb can exceed the rating of the pvc sleeve as indicated on the link to the wire chart you provided.

If you have comprehension problems please don't repeatedly try to indicate who may be off their meds..

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/watts-heat-lights-lamp-heat-output.htm

[Billy Stephens]

That would not make my Report.


Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.


Could you say why not? Having a bare incandescent bulb in contact with an electrical wire seems like a pretty bad idea.


Wire Insulation Identification and Application Guide (http://www.omega.com/temperature/z/wireinsulation.html)




WATTS
TYPE of BULB
TEMP (°F) @ 12"
TEMP (°F) of Lamp Fixture




2 min
5 min
10 min
2 min
5 min
10min


ZooMed
150
Infra-red Spot
149
159
171
77
80
82


ZooMed
160
MV Flood 'Powersun'
96
106
115
85
95
102


Westron
160
MV Flood 'MegaRay SB'
98
112
128
74
77
84


ESU
150
Incandescent 'Nocturnal BL'
143
164
165
100
118
118


ESU
150
Incandescent 'Brightlight'
191
209
218
75
77
79


ZooMed
150
Flood 'Basking Lamp'
181
186
195
105
114
123


ZooMed
100
MV Flood 'Powersun'
118
131
136
98
116
118


T Rex
100
MV Spot 'Active UV Heat'
93
114
136
84
102
113


ESU
100
Incandescent 'Nightlight'
134
150
152
78
80
83


ESU
100
Incandescent 'Brightlight'
165
188
194
77
79
81


ACE
100
Halogen Flood
205
226
226
77
82
86


ZooMed
100
Ceramic Heat Emitter
101
127
140
75
99
104


GE
100
Halogen Spot Lamp
158
257
271
75
82
87


GE
100
Halogen Flood Lamp
128
178
187
74
86
88


GE
75
Incandescent Spot 'Black Light'
92
101
103
89
96
97


GE
60
Incandescent 'Black Light'
102
109
112
93
94
105


GE
60
Incandescent Clear Glass
169
176
178
75
81
86


Westron
60
Inline MV Flood Lamp
95
97
103
90
93
98


Westron
60
Inline MV Spot Lamp
130
146
150





Westron
60
Heat Emitter
98
112
130
77
79
80


GE
50
Halogen Spot Lamp
185
193
196
76
85
88


GE
50
Halogen Flood Lamp
123
138
141
74
78
81






If you can't support your claims claiming you were only speaking about the bulb touching the wire; is nonsense. Then to ad disclaim to your theory you post a chart which doesn't even relate to the issue. And if you cared to enlighten yourself you will see the temp of a bulb from an authoritative article, and by fact actual measurement of a 50 watt bulb can exceed the rating of the pvc sleeve as indicated on the link to the wire chart you provided.

If you have comprehension problems please don't repeatedly try to indicate who may be off their meds..

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/watts-heat-lights-lamp-heat-output.htm

Here in The US of A we read / or listen to what was said.
* please try that . :D

[Raymond Wand]

This is from the 2008 NEC.
- 410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
- - (A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Listed luminaires of the following types shall be permitted to be installed in a closet:
- - - (1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire with a completely enclosed lamp
- - - (2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire
- - - (3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identified as suitable for installation within the storage area
- - (B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.
- - (C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a storage space shall be as follows:
- - - (1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
- - - (2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
- - - (3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed in the wall or the ceiling
- - - (4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires installed in the wall or the ceiling
- - - (5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall be permitted to be installed within the storage space where identified for this use.

http://ask-the-electrician.com/electrical/electrical-code/lighting-code.html

[Billy Stephens]

Here's an example from today's condo inspection. This was inside the utility closet.


This is from the 2008 NEC.
- 410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.

Thanks Ray,
Now what about Utility ( Service ) Closet Requirements ?
*you did read utility closet , Right ?

[Raymond Wand]

The bulb is still in contact with the wiring. Common sense prevails whether there is a code provision or not. The code whether it states clothes closet is moot given what is evident in the photo.

More importantly how would our colleagues write it up? My bet is they would put it in the report, again based solely on the photo.

[Billy Stephens]

The Chart does show @ the fixture temp.
* put whatever makes you comfortable in your report.
** just wouldn't make mine ( as shown) in a supply closet.


The bulb is still in contact with the wiring. Common sense prevails whether there is a code provision or not. The code whether it states clothes closet is moot given what is evident in the photo.

More importantly how would our colleagues write it up? My bet is they would put it in the report, again based solely on the photo.

" put whatever makes you comfortable in your report."
*again please read what is posted .

[Raymond Wand]

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
― Euripides (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/973.Euripides)

[Billy Stephens]

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
―
Euripides (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/973.Euripides)

Ray, Ray, Ray,

If you would just read the post before assuming you ( and only you ) have an answer.
* don't let me keep you from your "Important Research."

[Billy Stephens]

A simple cartoon for a simple person.
Thank You Raymond.
* Such ,Style, Flare, Class, (in a short bus kinda way.)
** nighty night Buddy.