Owens Corning Roof data tech

[Fidel Gonzales]

Hi All,
interNachi introduced a joint venture with Owens Corning for roof data techs. The program consist of training, then data collection. My question for anyone participating in the program, what they think of it.

[Scott Patterson]

Hi All,
interNachi introduced a joint venture with Owens Corning for roof data techs. The program consist of training, then data collection. My question for anyone participating in the program, what they think of it.

I don't know anything about the INACHI program but over the past few years I have done several warranty claim inspections for Owens Corning. They pay $150 but the jobs can be difficult if you are in an area with high and steep pitched roofs. Take photos, take a sample if needed and replace the sample with another shingle, fill,out the form and send it all in. I think the check takes around 30 days.

I no longer do them as the pay was too low for the risk and work that was involved.

[Garry Sorrells]

And guess who is now responsible for the replaced shingle and the area around it.

[Jeff Zehnder]

The theory may be good but in my case it has been too sparse to from much of an opinion. Since last fall I have only had one inspection and it was fairly straight forward. However I also do other inspections for other relayed building product industries and they have joint agreements from all of the major players and all use one or two central dispatch offices that you can work thru. This means more regular and dependable work flow.

[Lisa Endza]

The Owens Corning program has gone national and is generating many thousands of inspections for our industry Roof Data Technician Program with InterNACHI, Owens Corning Roofing, and Lowe's - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/roof)

[Scott Patterson]

News Flash! It has been a national program for years.... A person does not need a membership in your orginization to partisapate in the Owens Corning roof technician program.. The main problem with this program is that it does not pay enough to justify the risk and time involved in doing the roof inspections.

[Lisa Endza]

News Flash! It has been a national program for years.... A person does not need a membership in your orginization to partisapate in the Owens Corning roof technician program.
News Flash! Scott Patterson is wrong again on all counts.

The program only went nationally recently. InterNACHI was hired to roll it out. You MUST BE AN INTERNACHI MEMBER to participate. Owens Corning requires InterNACHI membership and does not accept any other inspection association membership. You have to take InterNACHI's online training course to be one of their Certified Roof Data Technicians. And you have to maintain membership in InterNACHI. The program and online video training were both developed under an EXCLUSIVE partnership between Owens Corning and InterNACHI. The training videos were produced by Owens Corning at NACHI.TV's movie set. The inspections are dispatched through a computer system owned by InterNACHI, running InterNACHI-authored software. And InterNACHI administers Owens Corning's entire warranty inspection program for them under an exclusive contract.

Read Roof Data Technician Program with InterNACHI, Owens Corning Roofing, and Lowe's - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/roof)

[Ken Rowe]

Yep, Scott's even wrong on how much the inspector is paid. According to the inachi site, they pay even less now that Nick has to take his cut. Roof Data Technician Program with InterNACHI, Owens Corning Roofing, and Lowe's - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/owens-corning-roof-warranty-program-press-release.htm)

[Lisa Endza]

Many of our members are reporting that they can do them in 10 to 20 minutes and so squeeze them between home inspections. Some of our members do as many as 12 a day. It's just another way being an InterNACHI member pays.

[Jerry Peck]

Many of our members are reporting that they can do them in 10 to 20 minutes and so squeeze them between home inspections. Some of our members do as many as 12 a day. It's just another way being an InterNACHI member pays.

10 to 20 minutes? Includes drive time and everything?

12 per day? That's 240 minutes. 240 ÷ 60 = 4 hours

So ... how many home inspections are they doing between those roof inspections?

[Scott Patterson]

Well, it sounds like it has gotten even worse than when I did them a few years back. I hope those that are doing the roof inspections make a ton of money doing them.....

- - - Updated - - -


10 to 20 minutes? Includes drive time and everything?

12 per day? That's 240 minutes. 240 ÷ 60 = 4 hours

So ... how many home inspections are they doing between those roof inspections?

Apparently very few home inspections are being done!

I'm just surprised at all of the problem roofs across the country.

[Garry Sorrells]

Many of our members are reporting that they can do them in 10 to 20 minutes and so squeeze them between home inspections. Some of our members do as many as 12 a day. It's just another way being an InterNACHI member pays.

Interesting;
1) Pull materials, 3 to 5 bundles plus nails and mastic.
2) Receive referral (claim)
3) Pull up on Google Earth to check and verify information
4) Call customer, obtain additional information and check on dogs ect.
5) Go to location, pull ladder and set up (don't talk to owner or you are lost in a time warp)
6) Take pictures of house(front and back), ventilation
7) Take picture of damaged shingle area.
8) Remove 2 shingle strips making sure that you do not damage them.
9) Take pictures of shingle nails and underlayment as you remove shingle
10) Install replacement shingle and seal while not damaging others in process
11) Take picture of replaced shingle
12) Package and go to UPS/Fed Ex to ship
13) Take picture of shipping label and tracking number
14) File report of observations and down load and send all the pictures for claim
15) Review to make sure that all the "i" are dotted and the "ts" are crossed.
16) Kick back and wait for the checks to roll in.
17) Call Nick if there is a question or problem
PS>>18) Have to measure sq ft of roof from roof not ground.. (missed that originally sorry)

Yep, easy peasey 10 or 20 min tops. $100 to $140 pure gravy for the day. Dang, you can even have someone else do it for you. Send the newbie.. Let The Good Times Roll - Laissez les bons temps rouler .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSdB74zl4cE

[Lisa Endza]

10 to 20 minutes? Includes drive time and everything? No, not including drive time. But you can do them when you like, so you can schedule them near other ones or near your home inspections.

[Jerry Peck]

No, not including drive time. But you can do them when you like, so you can schedule them near other ones or near your home inspections.

But ... you still have to DRIVE to them, stop the vehicle, get out, get the ladder, etc., - those are all parts of the inspection.

So, what you are saying is that they spend 20 minutes "on the roof"? That's not even half of the inspection time, which means the inspection time is more like 40 minutes each ... that 4 hours just became 8 hours ... or more ... and ... you say they are doing this 8 hours BETWEEN their home inspections?

A Scott said (implied) just how many actual home inspections are they doing ... none?

[Lisa Endza]

No. It's about 20 minutes total (not including driving). Some guys on our message board report that they've got it down to 10 minutes, but use 20 minutes as an average. There is no inspection report to generate.

InterNACHI handles all the accounting for Owens Corning as well, and we pay ($100 to $140) within 3 weeks.

It really makes financial sense if you schedule them before or after a nearby home inspection.

[Garry Sorrells]

You could call in an order to the oriental carryout as you start and you would be there before it was ready for pick up.:o Now that would be an efficient use of time.

[Lisa Endza]

If you are looking to make additional revenue efficiently, nothing beats Generate a Home Energy Report in Just a Few Extra Minutes - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/home-energy-inspection.htm) which you can offer with your home inspections.

InterNACHI authored the reporting software which interfaces directly with the U.S. Department of Energy laboratory database to produce the report on site.

[Garry Sorrells]

No. It's about 20 minutes total (not including driving). Some guys on our message board report that they've got it down to 10 minutes, but use 20 minutes as an average. There is no inspection report to generate. ......

Yep you are right that some , 2 other than Nic, say it's 20 min on site. At least from what I could gleam from postings. The rest say something else. Maybe I just didn't find the thread that had all of the 20 min completion postings and really missed the "got it down to 10 min" hit and run. Most of what I found was discussion of payment by OC.

The National Program as you call it and who sought out whom to be involved as opposed to the old program of having roofers or OC company reps do the warranty investigation may be a chicken and egg discussion. Left to another day.

So after looking at postings this is some of what I found as excerpts of postings.
The sources of the threads are listed first. Comments are from many individuals. Tried not to take out of context just an effort to condense. Enjoy reading..:)

Owens Corning Roof Inspections - InterNACHI Inspection Forum (http://www.nachi.org/forum/f73/owens-corning-roof-inspections-85341/)

Have you all been receiving your check$ from our Owens Corning project promptly? - InterNACHI Inspection Forum (http://www.nachi.org/forum/f77/have-you-all-been-receiving-your-check-our-owens-corning-project-promptly-93038/)

Owens Corning - InterNACHI Inspection Forum (http://www.nachi.org/forum/f73/owens-corning-84472/)

“The actual inspection went just fine...about 45 min with a very talkative client”

“I'm certain after a few more jobs I will have it down to 30-40 minutes.”

“I completed the job last week so I don't know the fee. They determine the fee based on the complexity of the home.”

“Every time I tried to release the bond, the shingle would flake/tear/or just plain shred at the bottom. ……roof. 1.5 hours, only because of bond issue.”

“I have done two Roofing jobs this year and both took 2 months to get paid from the date I performed the work to the day I received the check. Both took a number of emails to get the checks or I don't think I would have gotten them.”

“I did receive payment for, but only after much correspondence with Kelsea and Ben.”

“The pay is way too low for the time required to do the work. And it appears that we are expected to do it for free.”

“As with any inspection there are some of these jobs that are worth the money and some that take much more time due to conditions of the shingles .”

“The jobs have not been difficult and usually take about 30-60 minutes depending on difficulty, not counting drive and preparation time.”

“I was at the property for 30 minutes. When I got home I had the paperwork and shingles packed in about 15 minutes”

“Been contacted for a few of these jobs and I have to admit, it's not a very good program. One was the address of a Lowe's and the other I could never get in touch with the client. “

“But be sure to take only the "gravy" jobs - the easy to do ones that are both: close to your office and easy to do. If you don't want the leads that are generated in your area, don't take them. “

“…assignments have also shown unreliable for giving the correct shingle style and color,…”

“…Nothing like showing up with no clue of what the problem is or even if the claim is the shingle or just the caps (the problem was specialty caps...no materials with me to change out). …”

“….my own opinion to myself the shingles were properly installed we just had to strong of wind. So I believe I just messed with a roof that was in good shape and the shingles matched. Now they have 2 shingles way to dark in the middle of the roof. I think Owens Corning will respond sorry about your windy luck. So who repairs the 2 shingles that don't match the rest of the roof? “

“Personally I would have gone to the closest Lowes once I saw that my shingles on hand were not even close………warranty issue. If they are not then it is a labor issue and OC may not cover them in which case I would replace with a closer match. OC will pay for the material so all you have is gas. Caulk it up to education. “

“…Everyone is different. Think about it, call the homeowner, schedule the visit, drive out to the job, climb the roof, take pictures, measure the roof area, pull two shingle strips, replace the two strips with new ones from your truck, mail the two shingle strips, and fill out the online questionnaire and send to Owens Corning. You guys know what your time is worth. You tell me. “

“…But realistically it's a bot more than 20 minutes onsite. It's travel time and its uploading information, again more time…”

“…who is liable if the roof leaks where the inspector pulled the shingle?”

“My only concern about this program, is if the roof leaks after we have been up there.”

[Garry Sorrells]

If you are looking to make additional revenue efficiently, nothing beats Generate a Home Energy Report in Just a Few Extra Minutes - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/home-energy-inspection.htm) which you can offer with your home inspections.

InterNACHI authored the reporting software which interfaces directly with the U.S. Department of Energy laboratory database to produce the report on site.

But then there is the question of: (((well not so much a question as a statement)))

""InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents"

This is our latest blog post on InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents." (http://www.bigskytrial.com/blog/x/11/19/2014/realtor-r-beware-internachi-s-free-negligent-referral-protection-for-real-estate-agents-is-a-classic-lesson-in-you-get-what-you-pay-for) Not something we'd recommend. ""

http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-commercial-inspectors/41540-international-association-certified-home-inspectorss-free-negligent-referral-protection-real-estate-agents.html

[Lisa Endza]

Garry, I'm a little lost. It looks like you made one post where you very selectively plucked out some comments from a thread on InterNACHI's message board where members are revealing how long they are waiting to get paid. I'm not sure what your point is. Here is the actual thread in its entirety: Have you all been receiving your check$ from our Owens Corning project promptly? - InterNACHI Inspection Forum (http://www.nachi.org/forum/f77/have-you-all-been-receiving-your-check-our-owens-corning-project-promptly-93038/)

Then you made a post about our free negligent referral program for real estate agents. Agents love it. The negligent referral program and the Owens Corning program are not related.

And like Generate a Home Energy Report in Just a Few Extra Minutes - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/home-energy-report.htm) , none of these programs are available to inspectors who aren't members of InterNACHI. Scott can tell you the programs are open to all inspectors from all associations until the cows come home, but he is very mistaken.

[Garry Sorrells]

Lisa,
Lets see if I can guide you out of the woods.

Maybe you did not read the quotes I posted such as; " “The actual inspection went just fine...about 45 min with a very talkative client” or “The jobs have not been difficult and usually take about 30-60 minutes depending on difficulty, not counting drive and preparation time.”

The quotes were about how long it took to deal with the inspection and related tasks. Problems and issues that occurred. maybe you skipped over "... Maybe I just didn't find the thread that had all of the 20 min completion postings and really missed the "got it down to 10 min" hit and run. Most of what I found was discussion of payment by OC."

Like I stated the quotes were from the payment threads since that was the only reference I found to how long the process took from the forum threads and posts. In other words each thread had more than just "when am I getting paid" in them.

Don't get hung up on the thread source but rather what was said. Simple as that.

I know you like to obfuscate and redirect. The

""InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents"

This is our latest blog post on InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents." (http://www.bigskytrial.com/blog/x/11/19/2014/realtor-r-beware-internachi-s-free-negligent-referral-protection-for-real-estate-agents-is-a-classic-lesson-in-you-get-what-you-pay-for) Not something we'd recommend. ""

was a response/posting to your posting the advertisement about "... looking to make additional revenue efficiently,..." which had no direct relation to the thread (other than ways to make an extra buck) and was just another advertisement post by you. Also I thought I would carry it over from the thread This is our latest blog post on InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents." (http://www.bigskytrial.com/blog/x/11/19/2014/realtor-r-beware-internachi-s-free-negligent-referral-protection-for-real-estate-agents-is-a-classic-lesson-in-you-get-what-you-pay-for) Not something we'd recommend. ""
"" since you were not posting there for some reason. :confused: I thought I would get it attached to your posting of Generate a Home Energy Report (http://www.nachi.org/home-energy-report.htm). Nope not related but feel free to expound on "This is our latest blog post on InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents." (http://www.bigskytrial.com/blog/x/11/19/2014/realtor-r-beware-internachi-s-free-negligent-referral-protection-for-real-estate-agents-is-a-classic-lesson-in-you-get-what-you-pay-for) Not something we'd recommend. "

As for available or not to participate seems not to be much of an issue other than to you. The discussion was about merits, value, problems and time involved. In the original post to the thread Fidel asked in part "My question for anyone participating in the program, what they think of it. ". Granted those responding may not be participating in the program, but that does not mean this forum and its contributors do not have an opinion. Opinions that seem to be experience oriented and anchored in real world application.


On a side note and out of morbid curiosity. Why do you not post in other forums ????:confused: Just here and your home base forum are the only ones that I have seen. Just a passing thought....

[Lisa Endza]

Some claim it takes them 10 minutes. Some claim it takes them 45 minutes. But each inspector can incorporate the amount of time it takes them into their calculation to determine if a particular inspection makes financial sense to accept. You don't have to accept all of them, just the ones that make sense. So if one comes up near where you are or are going to be, take it. Otherwise, leave it for another member who is closer by.

Your same arguments can be made about your own home inspections. You have to drive to them, you have to drive home from them. But unlike these Owens Corning inspections that InterNACHI offers, when you do a home inspection you not only have time and costs getting there and back, you have marketing costs, insurance costs, time writing the report, liability with the report, etc. You have none of these costs with our inspections. Also, I suspect that a home inspection takes you bit longer than 20 minutes, or even 45 minutes, especially when you include report writing time.

You have to do the math. Take your fee for a home inspection, subtract your costs of getting there, your costs of getting home, your costs to manage your risk, your marketing costs, etc. (Brian Hannigan sells a product to help you determine this). That leaves you with a net fee. Now divide that net fee by the number of hours it takes you to sell the inspection, get to the inspection, do the inspection, get home from the inspection and write the report. Your net fee (fee less costs) divided by the total number of hours put into that inspection is what you make per hour. I'm going to guess that it is about the same or maybe even less than InterNACHI pays.

Roof Data Technician Program with InterNACHI, Owens Corning Roofing, and Lowe's - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/roof)

As for our U.S. DOE energy report, nothing comes close to what it pays per hour. You are already on the inspection, so if you charge an extra $100 for something that takes you only a few minutes to generate, you are making thousands of dollars per hour.

Generate a Home Energy Report in Just a Few Extra Minutes - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/home-energy-report)

As for any of our marketing-to-agents programs like our negligent referral program, what can I say? Agents love it. And despite all the legalese, Nick has paid to defend every agent sued for negligent referral without question, even paying much more than $10K in one instance. We've only had three claims in the long history of the program, none of them qualified for the protection, and he paid all of them.

Agents also love our "We'll Buy Your Home Back" program. When they have a hesitant homebuyer, they use the program as a selling tool. Most top-producing agents have their "pet" inspector whom they've been working with for years. You aren't going to get these agents to start referring you by merely dropping off your inspection business card at their office. To get their attention, you re going to need something with the "WOW!" factor. Here it is InterNACHI's "We'll Buy Your Home Back" Guarantee - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/buy.htm) You'll like the "fine print" found at that link :).

But even that program isn't as good as popular as our free, online, state-approved continuing education for real estate agents. InterNACHI now has more real estate agents taking our courses than we do home inspectors. Our members can give all their local real estate agents free access to the courses they are required to complete to keep their real estate licenses. Garry, I believe you are in Colorado. This program is approved by your Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies for real estate agents The State of Colorado's Department of Regulatory Agencies Approves InterNACHI as a School for Licensed Real Estate Professionals - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/colorado-department-real-estate-education-approval.htm) It's totally free.

The cards for inspectors to use to market their inspection businesses to their local real estate agents are also free. Free Colorado Real Estate Agent Marketing Cards (Pack of 50) (http://www.inspectoroutlet.com/free-colorado-real-estate-marketing-card-pack-of-50.aspx)

Programs like this take technically strong inspectors (like you) and make them financially rich. The purpose of being in the inspection business isn't to perform great inspections. That's a requirement, but not the goal. The goal of being in business, any business, is to make money.

[Garry Sorrells]

Aaaaaah the world of redirection. You can stick with the party line though many know better. Sorry :sorry: to those that have read this far in the thread, but it is the way of the internet.

The party line holds solid....

Many of our members are reporting that they can do them in 10 to 20 minutes .....do as many as 12 a day.... .


No, not including drive time. But you can do them when you like, so you can schedule them near other ones or near your home inspections.


No. It's about 20 minutes total (not including driving). Some guys on our message board report that they've got it down to 10 minutes, but use 20 minutes as an average. There is no inspection report to generate. ....


Some claim it takes them 10 minutes. Some claim it takes them 45 minutes..........

.....negligent referral program, ..... despite all the legalese, Nick has paid to defend every agent sued for negligent referral ........We've only had three claims in the long history of the program, none of them qualified for the protection, and he paid all of them.......
. Bless his heart...:o But there is something that smells fishy in your claim. :confused:

So as you state "none of them qualified for the protection" which confirms that qualifying is not realistic. It also reaffirms our jurist blog, thanks for the affirmation Lisa.
""InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents"

This is our latest blog post on InterNACHI's "Free Negligent Referral Protection for Real Estate Agents." (http://www.bigskytrial.com/blog/x/11/19/2014/realtor-r-beware-internachi-s-free-negligent-referral-protection-for-real-estate-agents-is-a-classic-lesson-in-you-get-what-you-pay-for) Not something we'd recommend. ""

:focus:
Yep you are right that some , 2 other than Nic, say it's 20 min on site. At least from what I could gleam from postings. The rest say something else. :flypig:....
Enjoy reading..:) :deadhorse:

“The actual inspection went just fine...about 45 min with a very talkative client”

“I'm certain after a few more jobs I will have it down to 30-40 minutes.”

“I completed the job last week so I don't know the fee. They determine the fee based on the complexity of the home.”

“Every time I tried to release the bond, the shingle would flake/tear/or just plain shred at the bottom. ……roof. 1.5 hours, only because of bond issue.”

“I have done two Roofing jobs this year and both took 2 months to get paid from the date I performed the work to the day I received the check. Both took a number of emails to get the checks or I don't think I would have gotten them.”

“I did receive payment for, but only after much correspondence with Kelsea and Ben.”

“The pay is way too low for the time required to do the work. And it appears that we are expected to do it for free.”

“As with any inspection there are some of these jobs that are worth the money and some that take much more time due to conditions of the shingles .”

“The jobs have not been difficult and usually take about 30-60 minutes depending on difficulty, not counting drive and preparation time.”

“I was at the property for 30 minutes. When I got home I had the paperwork and shingles packed in about 15 minutes”

“Been contacted for a few of these jobs and I have to admit, it's not a very good program. One was the address of a Lowe's and the other I could never get in touch with the client. “

“But be sure to take only the "gravy" jobs - the easy to do ones that are both: close to your office and easy to do. If you don't want the leads that are generated in your area, don't take them. “

“…assignments have also shown unreliable for giving the correct shingle style and color,…”

“…Nothing like showing up with no clue of what the problem is or even if the claim is the shingle or just the caps (the problem was specialty caps...no materials with me to change out). …”

“….my own opinion to myself the shingles were properly installed we just had to strong of wind. So I believe I just messed with a roof that was in good shape and the shingles matched. Now they have 2 shingles way to dark in the middle of the roof. I think Owens Corning will respond sorry about your windy luck. So who repairs the 2 shingles that don't match the rest of the roof? “

“Personally I would have gone to the closest Lowes once I saw that my shingles on hand were not even close………warranty issue. If they are not then it is a labor issue and OC may not cover them in which case I would replace with a closer match. OC will pay for the material so all you have is gas. Caulk it up to education. “

“…Everyone is different. Think about it, call the homeowner, schedule the visit, drive out to the job, climb the roof, take pictures, measure the roof area, pull two shingle strips, replace the two strips with new ones from your truck, mail the two shingle strips, and fill out the online questionnaire and send to Owens Corning. You guys know what your time is worth. You tell me. “

“…But realistically it's a bot more than 20 minutes onsite. It's travel time and its uploading information, again more time…”

“…who is liable if the roof leaks where the inspector pulled the shingle?”

“My only concern about this program, is if the roof leaks after we have been up there.”

Lisa if you can post links to all of the postings that are spending 10 to 20 min I would love to see them. Like I said I only found 2 claiming such time which is certainly not many, where are the rest??? But then as you have demonstrated claims are what dreams are made of.

Still On a side note and out of morbid curiosity. Why do you not post in other forums ????:confused:

Must be our good looks, do you think??? :laugh: :wink:

[Lisa Endza]

Lisa if you can post links to all of the postings that are spending 10 to 20 min I would love to see them. Like I said I only found 2 claiming such time which is certainly not many, where are the rest??? But then as you have demonstrated claims are what dreams are made of.Then disregard the inspectors who claim they can do it in 10 minutes or even 20 minutes. Let's say that it takes you a full hour to complete. I can't imagine how you could take an hour, unless you took a 30 minute nap on the job, but for the sake of this discussion, lets pretend a really slow inspector takes an hour.

Each inspector can incorporate the amount of time it takes them into their calculation to determine if a particular inspection makes financial sense to accept. If the inspector is one of those who takes an hour, maybe few inspections make financial sense for that inspector. If the inspector is one of those who takes 10 to 20 minutes, maybe many inspections make financial sense to that inspector. You don't have to accept all of them, just the ones that make sense. So if one comes up near where you are or are going to be and you do them quickly, take it. Otherwise, leave it for another member who is closer by and not as slow as you.

Your same arguments can be made about your own home inspections. You have to drive to them, you have to drive home from them. But unlike these Owens Corning inspections that InterNACHI offers, when you do a home inspection you not only have time and costs getting there and back, you have marketing costs, insurance costs, time writing the report, liability with the report, etc. You have none of these costs with our inspections. Also, I suspect that a home inspection takes you bit longer than an hour, especially when you include report writing time.

You have to do the math. Take your fee for a general home inspection that you offer every day of the week, subtract your costs of getting there, your costs of getting home, your costs to manage your risk, your marketing costs, etc. (Brian Hannigan sells a product to help you determine this). That leaves you with a net fee. Now divide that net fee by the number of hours it takes you to sell the inspection, get to the inspection, do the inspection, get home from the inspection and write the report. Your net fee (fee less costs) divided by the total number of hours put into that inspection is what you make per hour. I'm going to guess that it is about the same or maybe even less than InterNACHI pays for that same hour.

If you still don't like this program, InterNACHI has dozens of others that might make financial sense to you. I named a few in my previous post. We're here to make you money.

[Garry Sorrells]

Lisa, nice reply and on topic. :clap2: See it is not hard to do.

If it were not for you the thread may have stayed dormant, but you like to advertise here and I can understand why. This active and large forum brings you attention which may be why you do not post on other forums. Or you figure that they would kick you out or block your advertising posts. But then you did have to buy advertising space as pop up ads. I can only guess that is why Brian allows you to keep posting the way that you do.:mad:

The real crux of the entire thread since you resurrected it is basically about truth rather than fiction. Many in the forum see through the exaggeration and embellishment; thus, it may be the simple fact that we just don't like being lied to. No mater how you guild the Lillie. Quite literately it is "mean what you say and say what you mean". This has been demonstrated by the most recent elections where the people say accept that they were being lied to and voted for a change.

Unlike those who drink of the holy water of advertising and self promotion and discount the requirement of truth and ethics touting that the ends result trumps the means of achievement. Then possibly it may be age, experience or personal ethics that cause many here to question statements by others as misleading (false) and when done intentionally just a plain lie. Or it may be that we have, at some time, been suckered into believing the advertising hype to only find out that we had been taken for out time and money. Many people in sales demonstrate situational ethics as a function of their life. Something like the Subway sandwich commercial where they show you a sandwich that appears to have copious amounts of meat when in fact it is just four slices fluffed and folded for appearance. Aaah, just a mater of presentation you might say. Just not realistic.

Which return me to the thread discussion. Some (few ? 2) might be saying that they claim 10 or 20 min and that seems to be the first selling point. Which is what became one of the first point of contention/discussion. Then the insistence and repetition of that point by you, which you tend to do, in defending the indefensible and resulting with your attempts to redirect and obfuscate the discussion. Only to be dragged to the point where you acknowledge that the time mentioned may not be realistic and that it may not work for some/many. Now I must admit and congratulate you on the first time that you have taken a more rational approach to the discussion. Really refreshing. :o Your post "Then disregard the inspectors who claim they can do it in 10 minutes or even 20 minutes. " is what we have been driving at, which is the realistic time involved and what the work is worth to the individual. Though the question of liability on the job and future ramifications is still a added consideration.

{{{{ I will concede that under the most optimal conditions. Meaning that the owner is there waiting for you, the house that is quickly/easily accessible, the shingles come up with absolutely no problem, no time is spent talking to the owner, the damage shingle is only on one side of the house and is easily determined for pictures and all of the information required was provided in the original work order and was correct, then 10 to 20 min on site can be achieved. }}}}

Advertising a product/service/program can be difficult. The desire to present it in the best light is always the first decision. Yet, when reality seems to dictate something else don't be upset when attention and the light of truth is brought to bear on statements made.

Advertising and promotion is a tough game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijIq_-8HJo8

[Lisa Endza]

I think that even if it took you 2 hours to do this 20 minute inspection, InterNACHI might still be paying you more per hour than you are netting per hour doing home inspections, especially if your market is in an urban cluster and you selectively choose projects near your regular home inspections.

On a regular home inspection, you suffer the cost of marketing, the cost of managing risk, vehicle travel costs to and from the property, the time marketing, the time selling it, the time getting to the home inspection, the time at the home inspection performing the home inspection, the time driving home from the home inspection, the time generating the home inspection report, and the time discussing your report.

A common mistake in financial analysis is to focus at how much a job pays, rather than compare how much a job pays less costs divided by time.

If you don't like this program though, InterNACHI offers many more ways to help you make money.

[Ken Rowe]

Just curious why the pay to the inspector is less now that inachi is involved with this?

[Lisa Endza]

No, it's a totally new program. It's now profitable for inspectors to participate.

First, we developed online video training at our NACHI.TV movie set so that every member wishing to participate in the program can now get the training conveniently for free, online.

We then have a dispatch system that finds the nearest participating member so as to likely reduce the inspector's travel time.

InterNACHI then partnered with Lowe's nationwide to provide members with everything they need for free. InterNACHI members can just walk into their local Lowe's home improvement store and get it from the Lowe's Pro Services Desk using nothing more than their InterNACHI photo I.D., also free.

We also ship the boxes to our participating members. They are designed to exactly fit the shingle that blew off. They are also free and shipped to the inspector for free.

The boxes include shipping labels that get the shingles back to the Owens Corning laboratory where they take over from there. The pre-paid labels are also free.

We then also took over the accounting for Owens Corning. You don't ever have to wait long for your checks like you do with most other Fortune 500 corporations. InterNACHI cuts the checks and gets you paid within 30 days or often faster.

Roof Data Technician Program with InterNACHI, Owens Corning Roofing, and Lowe's - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/roof)

[Ken Rowe]

Old program, new program...it doesn't matter. Why are the inspectors paid less now that inachi is involved?




So, let me get this straight. I become an inachi member for $49. Take your online training and get on the list. I have to get additional insurance coverage since I'm now doing invasive inspections (removing shingles) and most likely a general contractors license. Since most of the cities in my area require a license to do work on houses I'd probably have to get licensed with them also.

Anyways... You send me a warranty inspection. I have to schedule the appointment with the home owner. I show up, it's a two story home with a 12-12 pitch. I lug out my 40 foot ladder. I see it appears to be defective so I take a shingle off.

I then have to drive to Lowe's and get a replacement shingle that matches. Go back to the house, reinstall the new shingle. Once done, I package the shingle and have to arrange shipment. You provide the box and shipping label, but it still has to get to the shipper. Fed Ex and UPS won't pick up without a corporate account and the box will be too big for USPS pickup at your door. And the very most I'll get paid is $140?

It's no wonder Owens Corning teamed up with you. Nobody else would do it for that fee.

[Lisa Endza]

No, you're way off base. No one joins InterNACHI to land additional revenue from our Owens Corning program. That would be nuts!

InterNACHI provides thousands of ways for inspectors to make money, crazy money. Most members use less than 100 of them. None use just one.

Inspector Membership Benefits - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/benefits.htm)

[Ken Rowe]

No, you're way off base. No one joins InterNACHI to land additional revenue from our Owens Corning program. That would be nuts!



Nice of you to admit that a person can't make money doing this.

[Lisa Endza]

No one takes a road trip with just a steering wheel either. The program is perfect for home inspectors because home inspectors already have home inspections to do.

The way to make good margins on this program (one of many that InterNACHI offers) is to do as I explained. Take the projects that are nearby your regular home inspection jobs. You're basically selling your time it takes you to do them for $100 to $140 a piece. That's really good money. Your costs are travel. So again, take the gravy jobs, the ones near wherever you are going anyway, on the way to wherever you are going anyway, or on the way back from wherever you are going anyway.

One of the reasons our Home Energy Reporting program (http://www.nachi.org/home-energy-report.htm) makes inspectors so much money is that the inspector is already there. His/her travel costs have already been suffered. Run this program similarly.

Still don't like it? Ignore it. InterNACHI provides thousands of other ways for you to make more money.

[Ken Rowe]

You're basically selling your time it takes you to do them for $100 to $140 a piece. That's really good money.

How does taking time to schedule the appointment with the client, driving to the house, driving to Lowes, driving back to the house, driving to ship the shingle, plus doing the inspection, shingle removal and replacement for $100 to $140 equal good money?

Sure, the inspector may spend 20 minute on site, but the inspector will easily spend 2 to 3 hours running to Lowes and shipping the shingle. Since you're in charge of paying the inspectors and the inspectors have to be inachi members to participate, don't you think you should pay them around the same wage they would make doing a regular home inspection?

Are you covering the inspector's insurance for these? They won't be covered under their typical home inspection insurance.

[Lisa Endza]

The many members who happily participate in this program publicly disagree. But if you think they are all lying or you just don't like this one, don't participate. InterNACHI is like a nearly endless buffet of membership benefits all designed to make you money. Pick what you like, eat all you want.

[Ken Rowe]

The many members who happily participate in this program publicly disagree.

I haven't seen anyone agree with you on this thread. Where are they?

[Lisa Endza]

Spending all the money we send them?

InterNACHI became larger than all other inspection associations combined by having an amazingly high membership renewal rate. You can't trick inspectors... they inspect for a living. What do they all know that you don't?

[Raymond Wand]

Spending all the money we send them?

InterNACHI became larger than all other inspection associations combined by having an amazingly high membership renewal rate. You can't trick inspectors... they inspect for a living. What do they all know that you don't?

That's a result of low, low, low entry requirements!

BTW hows the code of ethics enforcement going? Still expelling members without trial?

[Ken Rowe]

Basically inachi obtained a national contract with Owens Corning. Inachi is being paid to implement this program. Owens Corning is probably paying inachi millions to do this. In return inachi is taking the cream (probably 50 to 75%) of the fees being paid by Owens Corning and paying the inspector crap. Kind of like working for a temp agency or a national home inspection company. Being that inachi is a non-profit, we'll find out soon enough through their public tax returns.

Lisa, are your inspectors so lacking actual home inspections that they need to work for inachi for crap fees?

[Lisa Endza]

Again, you're focused on only one of thousands of ways InterNACHI makes inspectors money. You don't have to participate in that one if you don't like it. InterNACHI is like a huge buffet of ways for inspectors to make money. Pick what you like, eat all you want.

InterNACHI grew so much bigger than all the other inspection associations combined because of our outrageously high renewal rate. We enjoy the highest renewal rate of any trade association in any industry on earth. We can't trick inspectors into renewing, they inspect for a living. We don't hold a gun to their heads each year. We don't have a magic wand that sends them into a trance and causes them to renew year after year.

Why do your fellow inspectors in your industry keep renewing their membership in InterNACHI?

[Jack Feldmann]

Lisa,
I have a a couple questions. I have not read every comment on this thread, but there was one that got my attention.
If I understand correctly, the inspector is supposed to remove a shingle thats a problem, and then patch it. Is that correct?

My first question is the potential liability of having to answer for leaks that may show up in the area where the shingle was removed. How is this addressed?

The second question has to do with a business license (and / or contractors license) for doing "work on a rook. Is this a requirement for being in the program? I know in my area, my home inspectors license prohibits me from doing work for pay on a house I'm inspecting. There is also a requirement for a contractors license to do work on homes you don't own.
How is this addressed?

[Lisa Endza]

To answer your first question, Owens Corning handles customer complaints (before and after) directly and provides the consumer with a phone number for that purpose. The consumer is not your client.

To answer your second question, it is highly unlikely that your local government will require you to get a contractor's license to replace one shingle as part of a manufacturer's warranty inspection. Everywhere we check into this, we're told it is not necessary, in part again, because you are not performing this service for the consumer. The consumer is not your client.

[Ken Rowe]

To answer your second question, it is highly unlikely that your local government will require you to get a contractor's license to replace one shingle as part of a manufacturer's warranty inspection. Everywhere we check into this, we're told it is not necessary, in part again, because you are not performing this service for the consumer. The consumer is not your client.

Right, the inspector is performing work on a home for the shingle manufacturer, which would still require a contractors license anywhere around me and a building permit in most cities.

Inachi is so excited to get money from Owens Corning that they couldn't care less about their inspectors getting in trouble.

Next Lisa will come back with the line that it's the inspectors responsibility to follow their state and insurance guideline and not all inspectors can participate. But, in my opinion it's the responsibility of the contractor (inachi) to verify the credentials of the subs (inachi inspectors) they hire to perform the work.

In the State of MN it's the contractor's (inachi) responsibility to hold the contractor's license, insurance, and pull the building permits for work done by subs. And no, there is no reciprocity between a sewer contractor's license in Colorado and a building contractors license in MN.

[Lisa Endza]

Ken, on Monday I will contact the government agency that regulates contractors in your jurisdiction and see if they require a contractor's license to perform this warranty inspection. It may take them some time to look into it and give me an answer. Perhaps you are correct. I'll find out.

[Dan Harris]

Again, you're focused on only one of thousands of ways InterNACHI makes inspectors money. You don't have to participate in that one if you don't like it. InterNACHI is like a huge buffet of ways for inspectors to make money. Pick what you like, eat all you want.

InterNACHI grew so much bigger than all the other inspection associations combined because of our outrageously high renewal rate. We enjoy the highest renewal rate of any trade association in any industry on earth. We can't trick inspectors into renewing, they inspect for a living. We don't hold a gun to their heads each year. We don't have a magic wand that sends them into a trance and causes them to renew year after year.

Why do your fellow inspectors in your industry keep renewing their membership in InterNACHI?

Who cares? Keep promising useless benefits and continuing your non-stop /repeating your bull,t sooner or later another newby will believe you and send you his hard earned $s for something that can be found on this, and many other sites for 1/3 of your orgs dues.
Smart inspectors and Realtors soon figure out , Santa only comes once a year and you aint santa..
Kinda interesting to not see any response from you to a well worded opinion about your $10 thousand gimmick posted by an attorney.. :)

[Lisa Endza]

You keep pointing out that you don't like one or two particular membership benefits as if it is an amazing revelation that all of our thousands of members might not find all of our thousands of membership benefits useful to each and every one of them.

Think about it. Our website is more than 235,000 pages long! We have more members than all other inspection trade associations combined (12,106 in North America alone). And we literally have tens of thousands of membership benefits. To point out that you found one or two that some non-member doesn't care for, is probably the biggest "duh! no kidding?" ever posted on this message board.

This list keeps growing: Inspector benefits. (http://www.nachi.org/benefits.htm)

[Ken Rowe]

Your referral to the number of members you have have no relevance whatsoever to this thread. We've already discussed how inachi cooks their books to inflate their membership numbers in other threads.

[Lisa Endza]

You're off topic, but we truly are the largest.

First of all, once a member stops paying his/her dues, our system drops them from our database automatically (unlike the other associations who leave inspectors on their site who have retired, switched to InterNACHI or died).

Secondly, InterNACHI lists all of its members and their contact information in numerous ways listed below. We do this to make those who publicly raise doubts about our size look foolish.

Find an Inspector with InspectorSeek.com (http://www.inspectorseek.com/)
North American Directory of Inspectors - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/directories.htm)
Featured Inspectors - Int'l Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) (http://www.nachi.org/memberlist.htm)

You can also see and count our members in any particular state or province by adding the two-letter code to our URL. For example, if you wanted to see our 2,000+ members in Florida, you can go to www.nachi.org/FL (http://www.nachi.org/fl)

And lastly, a much smaller association (ASHI) looked into this issue a couple years ago. Their attorneys were supplied with all of our membership information to audit. After they investigated, they then informed all their members to stop referring to ASHI as the "largest." ASHI also removed the claim of being the "largest non-profit home inspection association" from all their marketing material and website. And finally, ASHI issued this statement: http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf

Back on thread topic again?

[Scott Patterson]

You're off topic, but we truly are the largest.

First of all, once a member stops paying his/her dues, our system drops them from our database automatically (unlike the other associations who leave inspectors on their site who have retired, switched to InterNACHI or died).

Secondly, InterNACHI lists all of its members and their contact information in numerous ways listed below. We do this to make those who publicly raise doubts about our size look foolish.

Find an Inspector with InspectorSeek.com (http://www.inspectorseek.com/)
North American Directory of Inspectors - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/directories.htm)
Featured Inspectors - Int'l Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) (http://www.nachi.org/memberlist.htm)

You can also see and count our members in any particular state or province by adding the two-letter code to our URL. For example, if you wanted to see our 2,000+ members in Florida, you can go to www.nachi.org/FL (http://www.nachi.org/fl)

And lastly, a much smaller association (ASHI) looked into this issue a couple years ago. Their attorneys were supplied with all of our membership information to audit. After they investigated, they then informed all their members to stop referring to ASHI as the "largest." ASHI also removed the claim of being the "largest non-profit home inspection association" from all their marketing material and website. And finally, ASHI issued this statement: http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf

Back on thread topic again?

ASHI might not be the largest but it is the oldest and most respected of all home inspector organizations.

[Lisa Endza]

And Scott takes us off thread topic again. OK, I'll play.

In your comment lies the question to be answered. If ASHI is so respected, why, with a 20-year head start, did ASHI lose the race to InterNACHI. ASHI didn't just lose, they got owned. And don't give us your newbie nonsense because InterNACHI is bigger even in licensed states that have adopted the exact same exam that ASHI uses. Yet despite that, most licensed inspectors choose InterNACHI and renew with InterNACHI year after year. Why? If ASHI is so respected, how did ASHI become so unpopular in its own industry compared to InterNACHI? You've seen your membership numbers.

[Ken Rowe]

Back on topic. Sorry for the negativity on my part Lisa. But, since I've worked for a national home inspection company in the past I have a huge problem with companies taking the majority of the income and paying the inspector so little.

[Lisa Endza]

I also apologize for my negativity.

But I have to tell you that InterNACHI doesn't take a cut out of anything, ever. In fact, when we first launched the program, Owens Corning paid our members direct. But like most Fortune 500 corporations, they took 60 days or more to cut a check. Nick didn't want members to have to wait to get paid so he now fronts all the money so that we can pay members direct within 3 weeks.

The dollar per hour for these warranty inspections is comparable or better to what home inspectors net on general home inspections which takes much longer and have additional costs. That wouldn't be true if InterNACHI siphoned off a chunk of the action for itself.

It's almost our corporate culture at InterNACHI. We bring our members zillions of offers to help them make money. But we do it for them, not us. You can ask any vendor in our industry, InterNACHI never cuts itself in. We have 18 million visitors on our website and don't even sell one banner ad. We don't make money off of the backs of our members. We make them money.

[Rick Cantrell]

The way I see it, this service could be of value to some inspectors.
Not everybody, but some.
Good job NACHI.

[Scott Patterson]

And Scott takes us off thread topic again. OK, I'll play.

In your comment lies the question to be answered. If ASHI is so respected, why, with a 20-year head start, did ASHI lose the race to InterNACHI. ASHI didn't just lose, they got owned. And don't give us your newbie nonsense because InterNACHI is bigger even in licensed states that have adopted the exact same exam that ASHI uses. Yet despite that, most licensed inspectors choose InterNACHI and renew with InterNACHI year after year. Why? If ASHI is so respected, how did ASHI become so unpopular in its own industry compared to InterNACHI? You've seen your membership numbers.

Sorry to get off topic... Lisa, this discussion gets old... It is simple why and how INACHI has grown so quickly. When the Certification title is basically given away for the cost of admission and most of the younger generation are looking for instant gratification in the way of a professional title, this is why and how. With ASHI, inspectors must earn the certification title with experience, knowledge and testing it is not given to them when they join.

ASHI is very popular with those that matter, to those that want to work and they and see the relavence of the third party endorsed certification, this would include the general public, HUD, VA, United States Military, EPA and around 19 states who have adopted the ASHI Standards or a sanatized version of the Standards for their own.

Ok, enough of the rebuttal... Sorry for getting off track.

[Ken Rowe]

Lisa, Please post a copy of your contract with Owens Corning. Remember, inachi is a non-profit and this contract is public information.

[Lisa Endza]

Scott Patterson drags the thread off topic again. O.K. I'll play.

Let me get to your last point first by saying that times have changed. States that adopt their own SOP these days, write them themselves. As for HUD, perhaps you didn't know, but HUD officials are members of InterNACHI. That's how HUD management gets its in-house education, through a contract with InterNACHI. HUD has them join InterNACHI, not ASHI. The U.S. military is the largest purchaser of InterNACHI's hard-copy commercial SOP books. The EPA chose InterNACHI to build its first approved online Lead Paint course. The EPA worked with InterNACHI to build it on InterNACHI's course platform. They chose InterNACHI, not ASHI. It's the same with the Home Energy Report that many home inspectors use. InterNACHI created the software for it and the U.S. Department of Energy's laboratory approved InterNACHI to interface with it on each inspection, not ASHI. As for inspection courses, InterNACHI has been awarded more than 1,200 governmental approvals and accreditations. InterNACHI has been awarded approvals for real estate agents to take our inspection courses. InterNACHI has IDECC approval. InterNACHI has ARELLO approval. InterNACHI has AARST and NRPP approval for its online radon course. I can go on and on. You can view many of the home inspection approvals by scrolling down the right column of Inspector Training. (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm) InterNACHI has been awarded more governmental approvals than all other inspection associations combined.

Now lets get to ASHI's certification. ASHI is a known diploma mill. Unlike InterNACHI which requires the passing of entrance requirements, anyone with a credit card can join ASHI online in 30 seconds or less using ASHI's online application. Here is a link to ASHI's embarrassing online membership application. (https://www.homeinspector.org/join/application/default.aspx)

ASHI's highest membership level, it's ACI (ASHI Certified Inspector) is no better. ASHI awards its highest membership level, ACI, based on the passing of only one "minimum standard" (EBPHI's phrase, not mine) NHIE exam used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school. It gets worse for ASHI. ASHI doesn't even require the inspector to pass this "beginner's exam" again when they apply for their ACI designation. ASHI just uses the same NHIE test results the applicant got back when he or she came out of school and was first entering the profession.

Imagine if ASHI certified race car drivers and issued their highest professional designation for race car drivers based on the passing of one driving exam, the one you took when you were 16 years old to get your state driver's license. LOL.

This goes back to your absurd claim that ASHI is the most respected. It is notable that you chose a statement of opinion (most respected) rather than a statement of fact (largest) to defend. But don't take my word for it. Look at your own online application that anyone can fill out in 30 seconds. Look at how ASHI uses a beginners exam (that many states use to license newbies fresh out of school) as the basis to award their highest ACI professional designation. Look at all the government agencies that chose to award approvals to and work with InterNACHI, not ASHI. Look at how many inspectors left ASHI for InterNACHI. InterNACHI is clearly the most approved organization. ASHI has publicly released a statement admitting that they are not longer the largest non-profit home inspection organization. http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf When is ASHI going to admit they are the least respected?


Ok, enough of the rebuttal... Sorry for getting off track

Me too. Lets get back on thread topic.

[Ken Rowe]

Since you're back on topic Lisa, how about responding to my previous request.
Lisa, Please post a copy of your contract with Owens Corning. Remember, inachi is a non-profit and this contract is public information.

Also, please tell us, if in fact, inachi holds accreditation for any of its school or education, (not approvals, actual accreditation) or if inachi is simply a marketing association.

[Lisa Endza]

Also, please tell us, if in fact, InterNACHI holds accreditation for any of its school or education, (not approvals, actual accreditation) or if InterNACHI is simply a marketing association.

The two most difficult accreditations for home inspection schools to get are ARELLO and IDECC. InterNACHI's school has both accreditations. And our courses have been awarded more than 1,200 governmental approvals. See InterNACHI's inspector education. (http://www.nachi.org/education.htm)

But we also provide a ton of marketing for our members. Go here and scroll down to the Inspector Marketing section. (http://www.nachi.org/benefits.htm)

We have six basic divisions at InterNACHI and they are the best in the inspection industry at what they each do. They are



Inspector Education and Training Division. This division is charged with the duty of making sure our inspection courses are the very best (they are), approved by every government agency that approves inspection courses (they are), and that our members have free and unlimited access to all of them forever (they do).
Member Benefits, Deals and Discounts Division. This division is charged with giving our members a competitive advantage by saving our members money and making sure they pay less than their competitors for everything. InterNACHI now provides more than 110,000 deals, discounts, or free membership benefits.
Member Marketing Division. This division is charged with the duty of making sure our members get plenty of inspection work. From designing our members a custom logo for their inspection businesses to SEO, this division does it all.
Ancillary Inspection and Additional Revenue Division. This division is charged with helping inspectors get qualified and licensed to offer ancillary inspections and services. An example would be our AARST and NRPP-approved radon course.
Inspection Business Success Tools. This division is charged with helping inspectors run their businesses successfully. An example would be our free, electronic signature pre-inspection agreement system.
Real Estate Agent/Broker Course Division. This new division is charged with the duty of creating inspection-related courses for real estate agents and getting them approved by all the various real estate commissions. It's underlying purpose is to promote members to real estate agents by providing the entire real estate industry with free, online, approved courses forever.


We have a 7th division but it doesn't do anything for members quite yet. It is charged with legally turning InterNACHI's school into a real University that will be issuing an actual college degree in inspections. We only recently released enough courses and textbooks to support a curriculum robust enough to issue a college degree.

[Ken Rowe]

The two most difficult accreditations for home inspection schools to get are ARELLO and IDECC. InterNACHI's school has both accreditations.

That's funny because ARELLO has no inachi listing on their member list (NHIA) is listed though https://www.arello.org/index.cfm/about/member-list/

And IDECC would certify specific courses, not schools. inachi courses aren't listed in their course list at all. https://www.idecc.org/content.cfm?page=isearch

It's funny that you keep claiming inachi is a "certified school" when your tax exempt status and IRS forms don't back up your claims whatsoever.

Since you've ignored my previous requests, I'll try once again,
Lisa, Please post a copy of your contract with Owens Corning. Remember, inachi is a non-profit and this contract is public information.

[Lisa Endza]

We publicly post every school, instructor, and inspection course approval we have from organizations like ARELLO, IDECC, NRPP, AARST, EPA, and more than 1,200 other government agencies on our website. We have more approvals and accreditations than all other inspection associations and schools combined. Use the search button to find them all. The original approval documents are all there for you to review.


It's funny that you keep claiming InterNACHI is a "certified school" when your tax exempt status and IRS forms don't back up your claims whatsoever.Wrong again. Here is our tax exempt status letter from the IRS with an effective date going all the way back to 2004 http://www.nachi.org/documents/InterNACHItaxexempt.pdf


Please post a copy of your contract with Owens Corning. Remember, inachi is a non-profit and this contract is public information.Does the NFL make all its contracts public information?

[Ken Rowe]

t's funny that you keep claiming InterNACHI is a "certified school" when your tax exempt status and IRS forms don't back up your claims whatsoever.
Wrong again. Here is our tax exempt status letter from the IRS with an effective date going all the way back to 2004 http://www.nachi.org/documents/InterNACHItaxexempt.pdf

All that form shows is your tax exempt status. It says nothing about inachi providing education or is a "certified school".


Does the NFL make all its contracts public information?
The NFL isn't a non-profit organization. Non-profit organizations are required to provide these documents when requested. Remember to list your income from Owens Corning on your tax returns. Keep in mind, it's not "membership dues" as listed for all your other income.

[Lisa Endza]

It's funny that you keep claiming inachi is a "certified school" when your tax exempt status and IRS forms don't back up your claims whatsoever.


All that form shows is your tax exempt status. It says nothing about inachi providing education or is a "certified school".
But Ken, you're the one who oddly claimed that our tax exempt status don't show that we are a certified school. I hate to once again explain that you are wrong, but you are again wrong. No tax exempt status reveals anything about a school's accreditation. You are very wrong about the IRS having anything to do with certifying inspection schools, instructors or courses. You're just wrong about that.


Lisa, Please post a copy of your contract with Owens Corning. Remember, inachi is a non-profit and this contract is public information.
Non-profit organizations are required to provide these documents when requested.The contracts corporations (for-profit or non-profit) enter into are not public information nor are they required to be provided to anyone. Where are you getting this nonsense? Ken, you are wrong again on both counts.

Ken Rowe claims
The NFL isn't a non-profit organization.Uh, I don't know how to break this to you Ken, this is getting very embarrassing. But you are wrong once again. The NFL is a non-profit organization. The NFL is a non-profit organization just like InterNACHI is.

Look Ken, you're probably a nice guy. But you are just plain wrong about nearly every statement you make, so much so that it is really a waste of my time to keep interacting with you. No hard feelings. And please, don't ever go into the inspection business :rolleyes:.

[Raymond Wand]

Ken,

Just remember InterNacho is a non-profit marketing endeavour. Nothing more, nothing less.
Always has been and always will be. If we are lucky the IRS will one day raid the head office and Humpty Dumpty will have a great fall!

Remember Lisa is a paid advocate. She knows her place or else. Just like many employees before her who have been shown the door, she to one day will be discarded once she has been used to the fullest extent by you know who.

Hey Lisa when is Nacho going to have a properly functioning discipline standard and a proper functioning ethical discipline committee, or forum rules which are enforced?

[Scott Patterson]

Many not for profit originazations will have a for profit education corporation and some have several additional for profit corporations under the parent orginization. The funds, accounting, corporate charter are all separate from the parent orginization.

[Jerry Peck]

I go away ... and come back to this thread ...

Go away again ... and come back again ...

It's basically the same three posters posting to each other ...

We know that Lisa is an internet troll ... time to stop feeding the troll, let her go back under her bridge. :)

[Ken Rowe]

But Ken, you're the one who oddly claimed that our tax exempt status don't show that we are a certified school. I hate to once again explain that you are wrong, but you are again wrong. No tax exempt status reveals anything about a school's accreditation. You are very wrong about the IRS having anything to do with certifying inspection schools, instructors or courses. You're just wrong about that.

Inachi's NTEE Catagory code is S41 (Chamber of Commerce or Business League)
If you were a school in the eyes of the National Center for Charitable Statistics and the IRS your code would be B03 ( Professional Societies & Associations) Here's a list of the NTEE classifications, since you're obviously unfamiliar with them. http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/kbfiles/324/NTEE_Two_Page_2005.pdf


The contracts corporations (for-profit or non-profit) enter into are not public information nor are they required to be provided to anyone. Where are you getting this nonsense? Ken, you are wrong again on both counts.

Thanks for pointing out that inachi is a Corporation and not an association. This is confirmed on your tax forms. The word "association" in your title is only a ruse. However, inachi is a 501.c.6 tax exempt corporation meaning you have to abide by the disclosure laws. Here's a copy of them since they are unfamiliar to you. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eo_disclosure_faqs.pdf



Ken Rowe claims Uh, I don't know how to break this to you Ken, this is getting very embarrassing. But you are wrong once again. The NFL is a non-profit organization. The NFL is a non-profit organization just like InterNACHI is.

Well, at least you're partially correct. Yes, part of the NFL is non-profit. The other parts, with the contracts for income are actually different companies called NFL Properties and NFL Ventures. So when you claim the NFL contracts aren't public information, you're correct, because they are a for profit company. But, unlike the NFL, inachi does not list any affiliated companies on their tax forms. Here's an article from CNN which explains different companies of the NFL, since you're obviously unfamiliar with it. Is the NFL skirting the tax man? - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/22/us/nfl-nonprofit-taxes/)

[Lisa Endza]

inachi is a 501.c.6 tax exempt corporation meaning you have to abide by the disclosure laws. Here's a copy of them since they are unfamiliar to you. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eo_disclosure_faqs.pdf


This is really getting embarrassing for me Ken. You are wrong again. The IRS PDF you posted doesn't include contracts in the list of documents tax exempt organizations must make public. If you do a search on your link for the word "contract" you'll find it doesn't even appear in it, not even once. Look, I'm sure you are a nice enough fellow, but nearly every statement you make is wrong.

[Ken Rowe]

Ken,

Just remember InterNacho is a non-profit marketing endeavour. Nothing more, nothing less.
Always has been and always will be. If we are lucky the IRS will one day raid the head office and Humpty Dumpty will have a great fall!

Remember Lisa is a paid advocate. She knows her place or else. Just like many employees before her who have been shown the door, she to one day will be discarded once she has been used to the fullest extent by you know who.

Hey Lisa when is Nacho going to have a properly functioning discipline standard and a proper functioning ethical discipline committee, or forum rules which are enforced?


You're correct. I just can't believe how stupid they seem to think we are. They just want us to believe everything they say, without question. Friggen lemmings.

[Ken Rowe]

This is really getting embarrassing for me Ken. You are wrong again. The IRS PDF you posted doesn't include contracts in the list of documents tax exempt organizations must make public. If you do a search on your link for the word "contract" you'll find it doesn't even appear in it, not even once. Look, I'm sure you are a nice enough fellow, but nearly every statement you make is wrong.

You must have missed this section:


A section 501(c)(3) organization must make available for public inspection and copying any Form 990-T, Exempt Organization Business Income Tax Return, filed after August 17, 2006. Returns must be available for a three-year period beginning with the due date of the return (including any extension of time for filing). For this purpose, the return includes any schedules, attachments or supporting documents that relate to the imposition of tax on the unrelated business income of the charity. See Public Inspection and Disclosure of Form 990-T for more information.

You don't have to disclose them now, but will have to on your tax forms. Seems you want to hide the information from us.

[Lisa Endza]

Ken writes:


You must have missed this section:


A section 501(c)(3) organization must make available for public inspection and copying any...

OMG. Ken, this is really, really getting embarrassing. I have to break it to you again. You are wrong once more. InterNACHI isn't a 501(c)(3). Look Ken, you seem like a nice fella, but nearly everything you say is wrong.

I just can't watch you do this to yourself on a public forum any more.

[Rick Cantrell]

I just can't watch you do this to yourself on a public forum any more.

Yeah
Lisa's leaving.

[Raymond Wand]

Ken

Thank you for your diligence and perserverance!

Anything coming from Nacho must be questioned, and exposed. As you have found out Nacho is a corporation and not an association. That reads a 'marketing' corporation.

These matters only scratch the surface, there are other well documented matters which don't pass the muster and scrutiny.

Lisa is and will always be the proverbial mouth piece for you know who, after all she is a paid spokesperson. If she doesn't tow the line - hasta-la-vista Lisa. She knows what side the bread buttered on.

Now I also notice Lisa never answers my well founded concerns why people like Michael Larson, gets away with cyber bulling of my good buddy Roy Cooke who has bent over backwards for Nacho. As I said before as long as NG can use someone he will use them. Pitiful! Or why Kevin Woods for instance was not what is routinely and legally a right to a fair hearing in camera and not on an public forum. Or why NG called another association a very vulgar term and thought nothing wrong with it. And no Nacho member said anything! What a piece of work you people are. What a travesty on the public!

How is the public protected Lisa from rubes within your organization?

Please Lisa no more links which are nothing but marketing endeavours by you to support your job description. Any thing you say or post must be taken as NOT being accurate, Ken has done an admirable job in exposing your corporations inconsistencies.

Act don't react!

[Ken Rowe]

Ken writes:



OMG. Ken, this is really, really getting embarrassing. I have to break it to you again. You are wrong once more. InterNACHI isn't a 501(c)(3). Look Ken, you seem like a nice fella, but nearly everything you say is wrong.



It's ok with me Lisa if you want to hide the amount Owens Corning is paying you to run this program for them. It will have to be shown in your tax return eventually. However, I'm saddened by the fact that you're taking advantage of your members by offering slave wages, when you're making two or three times as much from Owens Corning. Must be to pay Nick's half million dollar paycheck. You should demand a raise, as you don't even make enough to be required to be listed on inachi's tax return.

[Dirk Jeanis]

[QUOTE=Ken Rowe;[/QUOTE]
THis is the craziest thread I have read in years.
Generally speaking I dont think that non profits have to divulge thier contracts, just thier tax returns and means of income (for instance show the income from Corning which will also be taxable income if filed properly as a service was provided for Corning in the process, therefore value was received)

However, as a MEMBER of a non-profit there is other information that can be demanded. I remember this to be true but do not remember what the circumstances are.

Also, if a non-profit with paid membership there should be elections or other ways to change management.

Maybe the idea should be to gain control by membership.

ROFL