drip legs

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

guys--1995 townhouse with unconventional drip legs

cvf

[Bruce Ramsey]

Not only unconventional, but also wrong.

2419.4 Where a sediment trap is not incorportated as part of the appliance, a sediment trap shall be installed downstream of the appliance shuttoff valve as close to the inlet of the appliance as practical. The sediment trap shall be either a tee fitting having a capped nipple of any length installed vertically in the bottom most opening of the tee or other device approved as an effective sediment trap. Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers, and outdoor grills need not be so equipped.

[Jerry Peck]

As installed, that dead end (not calling it a drip leg) is nothing more than a particle accelerator with a built in random collider refractor to reflect the particles back out of the collider and down into the vertical trap for testing (testing to see how long it takes to clog up the gas controller valve).

:)

[CHARLIE VAN FLEET]

JERRY

say what--does that mean what i wrote up that it is wrong and needs to be repaired

cvf

[Rick Cantrell]

Both the WH and furnace are wrong,
Both need a sediment trap installed between the shutoff valve and the appliance.

[Jerry Peck]

JERRY

say what--does that mean what i wrote up that it is wrong and needs to be repaired

cvf

Yes, it is wrong and needs to be replaced.

I was referring to the long gas line as a particle accelerator as it allows sediment particles in the gas to accelerate, then those particles collide with the end cap (the collider) and then bounce back into the gas going down to the appliance. :)

Yesterday, my 8 year old granddaughter and I watched a program on two particle accelerators, one of them was the largest in the world ( The Large Hadron Collider | CERN (http://home.web.cern.ch/topics/large-hadron-collider) ). They were still in my mind when I was replying - sorry about that. :)

[Ken Amelin]

I happen to be one of those people that believe the requirement for a drip leg in gas piping systems is ridiculous.

I spent more than 15 years designing HVAC, plumbing and fire protection systems and have never once heard of any issues with sediment build up in gas pipes drip legs. So if a drip leg is something you get hung up about, can anyone tell me how long the drip leg should be and how often one should remove sediment build up in a drip leg??

Nonsense!! Archaic and not required.

[Jerry Peck]

I happen to be one of those people that believe the requirement for a drip leg in gas piping systems is ridiculous.

I spent more than 15 years designing HVAC, plumbing and fire protection systems and have never once heard of any issues with sediment build up in gas pipes drip legs. So if a drip leg is something you get hung up about, can anyone tell me how long the drip leg should be and how often one should remove sediment build up in a drip leg??

Nonsense!! Archaic and not required.

Are you referring to a drip leg or a sediment trap? Sediment trap ... you already knew that with your experience ... right?

Regarding the length of the sediment trap leg, many manufacturers state (show) in their drawings that they want 3" minimum between the edge of the cap and the edge of the tee (i.e., a 4" nipple would provide that or close to it). But you already knew that with your experience ... right?

By the way, you should already know this with your experience designing such systems, but the code states the sediment trap nipple shall be of any length, so that takes you back to the installation instructions ... but you already knew that with your experience ... right?

[Bob Harper]

I happen to be one of those people that believe the requirement for a drip leg in gas piping systems is ridiculous.

I spent more than 15 years designing HVAC, plumbing and fire protection systems and have never once heard of any issues with sediment build up in gas pipes drip legs. So if a drip leg is something you get hung up about, can anyone tell me how long the drip leg should be and how often one should remove sediment build up in a drip leg??

Nonsense!! Archaic and not required.
Very nice Ken. I'm sure all those people who suffered fires, explosions, delayed ignition or sooting appreciate your indignation. However, the efficacy of a proper sediment trap has been proven to protect gas valves against solid as well as liquid foreign matter. As a quality assurance manager for a major gas appliance mfr. and now as a consultant for product liability litigation I can assure you they do have a place and are justified. Personally, I don't share your sarcasm.

[JC Warner]

Years ago( before I knew anything) my old furnace would cycle on-click-off-on-click-off, etc. My heating repair friend found that the ports were clogged with tiny debris. He cleaned them out and installed a sediment trap. All was well with the world once again.
I was wondering when sediment traps became required in California. I'm having a "discussion" with an agent about this subject.
Thank you!

[Ken Amelin]

Very nice Ken. I'm sure all those people who suffered fires, explosions, delayed ignition or sooting appreciate your indignation. However, the efficacy of a proper sediment trap has been proven to protect gas valves against solid as well as liquid foreign matter. As a quality assurance manager for a major gas appliance mfr. and now as a consultant for product liability litigation I can assure you they do have a place and are justified. Personally, I don't share your sarcasm.

I realize that I was a "Bit" sarcastic with my previous comment and I apologize for that (I may have been too quick with the send button), but my opinion remains the same. I believe the "drip leg" or "sediment trap" was needed years ago when only metal pipe was used for main distribution in the street and in the home and the gas supply contained more moisture. Today the gas supply is much cleaner and dry with most grid piping now synthetic and distribution in the home is flexible stainless. Some limited use of legacy black iron remains for penetrations or connections but is disappearing. Older requirements for sediment traps or (drip legs :o) should be questioned and revisited.

[Chris Weekly]

Plumbing code and manufacturers both require it. I have seen a number of gas fired furnaces that have intermittent ignition, pulsating flame, on and off cycles, and other peculiar workings. One, at a home I was inspecting, and called attention to the heater firing intermittently (which also had no sediment trap), the owner quickly called out HVAC who confirmed that the valve was clogged or obstructed, and he began the repair - as I recall it was $300 or $400 for the repair.
Maybe brand new equipment, brand new piping, clean and dry gas from the supplier may minimize the need for sediment traps....but, I inspect lots of older properties, and see quite a lot of misbehaving gas appliances, almost all of which had no sediment traps.
Seems reasonable that given the requirement for, the demonstration of problem equipment, and the relatively minor cost to install....why wouldn't you put into your report: "Lack of a proper gas sediment trap at the appliance. Recommend correction." Sure you can go into a lengthy explanation, but it mostly is not necessary to do so. Clients get it when you quickly explain why - so just back it up in your report with a quick comment. These are relatively easy fixes, and there are probably a lot more about the house that needs a greater deal of your attention.

[JC Warner]

I was just wondering WHEN sediment traps became required?

[Chris Weekly]

My 1958 UPC only talks about a drip leg (when water vapor is present in the fuel gas).
Nothing about a sediment trap.
Perhaps that was left up to the manufacturers of the time.