trim applied over James Hardie lap plank siding

[Jeffrey Dyell]

I'm in Austin, TX. Contractor has applied corner and window trim over James Hardie lap plank siding. Claims it is how they have always done it here. Everything I read on the Hardie site states that trim must be applied first, then the siding cut to but against it with caulking. Has anyone heard different?

Thanks,

Jeffrey

[Jerry Peck]

Has anyone heard different?

Only from contractors who don't know how to install it. :)

[Jeffrey Dyell]

Only from contractors who don't know how to install it. :)

I emailed JamesHardie, following one of their Contact Us links, and got the following response: (see below)

JamesHardie <JamesHardie@Jameshardie.com> Jeffrey Dyell;
Dear Jeffery,

Yes, it is okay to install trim over the siding.

Thx!

-----Original Message-----
From: JamesHardie
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 12:49 PM
To: Info
Subject: New Contact Us Request

New Contact Us Request - Response Needed

Comments: Contractor told us that corner and trim boards could be applied over our Hardie lap-siding. Is this OK? All I have seen in Installation docs is that it must be butted to the trim.

[Jerry Peck]

If it's not in the installation instructions, then it's not an approved installation method.

Is James Hardie going to stand behind their installation instructions or behind an email?

My guess is that they will stand behind their published installation instructions over an email should something not end up correctly.

What do their installation instructions show (I'm not able to get to them right now)?

To clarify - if the email was more restrictive than the installation instructions, they would likely stand behind the email ... but not with an email which is less restrictive.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

If it's not in the installation instructions, then it's not an approved installation method.

Is James Hardie going to stand behind their installation instructions or behind an email?

My guess is that they will stand behind their published installation instructions over an email should something not end up correctly.

What do their installation instructions show (I'm not able to get to them right now)?

To clarify - if the email was more restrictive than the installation instructions, they would likely stand behind the email ... but not with an email which is less restrictive.

Now lets be clear, James Hardie was emailed and can be contacted directly about the matter again although I think one time is enough.

Mr. Peck, I do think you are making a point BUT James Hardie in this case gave the nod to the installation. If the contactor created a method of application that is satisfactory then why not?

You can always verify you findings again by emailing the company with photos of the work and express you are a home inspector and wish to have validation for when you see this style of installations again.

Remember, they are the manufacturer.
Just my opinion.

[Stan Dulaney]

Hardie used to sell a trim that is cut to fit the laps in its horizontal siding.
But, the original post led me to believe that it was a regular piece of trim leaving gaps at all intersections, which is totally unacceptable.

[Charles Buell]

It depends on climate zone---there are Hardi instructions per climate zone. Gotta check which zone you are in.

[Travis Franzoy]

Trim over the top of Hardie siding is the norm in Houston. I have it on my personal home as well.

[Jeffrey Dyell]

Trim over the top of Hardie siding is the norm in Houston. I have it on my personal home as well.

Travis - I'm in Austin, so I assume the same zone. Did you caulk gaps between trim and siding, or use shims to fill gaps? Contractor is using 1X4 trim over lap siding.

[Don Doyle]

I'm in Austin, TX. Contractor has applied corner and window trim over James Hardie lap plank siding. Claims it is how they have always done it here. Everything I read on the Hardie site states that trim must be applied first, then the siding cut to but against it with caulking. Has anyone heard different?

Thanks,

Jeffrey

Dear Jeffery,

Just spoke with JH rep this weekend and he confirmed both methods are per JH specs. They have tested it both ways. Around windows they prefer butt joints however they accept the other.

Blessings,
Don

[Jerry Peck]

I emailed JamesHardie, following one of their Contact Us links, and got the following response: (see below)

JamesHardie <JamesHardie@Jameshardie.com> Jeffrey Dyell;
Dear Jeffery,

Yes, it is okay to install trim over the siding.

Thx!

-----Original Message-----
From: JamesHardie
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 12:49 PM
To: Info
Subject: New Contact Us Request

New Contact Us Request - Response Needed

Comments: Contractor told us that corner and trim boards could be applied over our Hardie lap-siding. Is this OK? All I have seen in Installation docs is that it must be butted to the trim.




Now lets be clear, James Hardie was emailed and can be contacted directly about the matter again although I think one time is enough.

Mr. Peck, I do think you are making a point BUT James Hardie in this case gave the nod to the installation. If the contactor created a method of application that is satisfactory then why not?

Now lets be clear, James Hardie sent a GENERIC email (no location specified) stating "Yes, it is okay to install trim over the siding."

Mr. Young, I do think you are making a point BUT James Hardie in this case gave a GENERIC (no location specific limitations included) response to a specific question based on the location of the person who asked the question - that is what lead to my questioning the email.

I have received a reply from James Hardie which CLARIFIES the specificity of the original generic answer.

Dear Jerry,





The trim is allowed over the lap siding in HZ 10 regions but is not allowed in the HZ5 zones. See attachment. Florida is in HZ 10.





Thank you

I also received an attachment which specifically states where trim is permitted to be 'over the HardiePlank' and where the trim IS NOT permitted to be over the HardiePlank - I have attached it.

A blanket statement of "Yes, it is okay to install trim over the siding." is incorrect as that statement needs to be accompanied by the required location information which limits the application of that statement - that is, 'it is only permitted in an HZ10 zone location'.



First, to all who already do not know this, HardiePlank is noW made in two versions: HZ5 and HZ10 with each being location specific - do not install HZ10 in an HZ5 area and do not install HZ5 in an HZ10 area.

For published installation instructions for HZ5 products - the HZ5 zone is shown on page 2 here:
http://www.jameshardie.com/pdf/HardieZone-HZ5-Care-and-Maintenance-Guide.pdf
- Go here: http://www.jameshardie.com/d2w/installation/hardieplank-hz5-us-en.pdf
- - On the first page, at the lower left corner of Figure 1, you will see this: "DO NOT Install Trim over HardiePlank /HardieShingle"


For published installation instructions for HZ10 products - the HZ10 zone is shown on page 2 here:
http://www.jameshardie.com/JamesHardieMainSite/media/ResourceCenter/PDF/HardieZone-HZ10-Care-and-Maintenance-Guide.pdf
- Go here: http://www.jameshardie.com/d2w/installation/hardieplank-hz10-us-en.pdf

The document which was sent to me is attached.

[Travis Franzoy]

Travis - I'm in Austin, so I assume the same zone. Did you caulk gaps between trim and siding, or use shims to fill gaps? Contractor is using 1X4 trim over lap siding.

Always wondered about the caulk myself. No caulk on any that I have seen. I'm guessing the 4" overlay and *fingers crossed* proper flashing under the siding, negate the need for caulking the openings.

[Jeffrey Dyell]

Always wondered about the caulk myself. No caulk on any that I have seen. I'm guessing the 4" overlay and *fingers crossed* proper flashing under the siding, negate the need for caulking the openings.

My last email reply from James Hardie, where I asked about caulking:

JH recommends for trim to be "butt to" and then caulked. The reason for this is one can see if the caulking has failed and needs to be maintained.
JH allows "trim over" in HZ10 regions, but again it is up to the individual/installer to ensure there are flashings/caulking to prevent water/pest intrusion.

So it would seem that just slapping the trim over the siding is not quite enough.

[Lon Henderson]

First, to all who already do not know this, HardiePlank is not made in two versions: HZ5 and HZ10 with each being location specific - do not install HZ10 in an HZ5 area and do not install HZ5 in an HZ10 area.

Did you mean that JH is made in two versions?

Good info. I'm in HZ5. Live and learn

[Jerry Peck]

First, to all who already do not know this, HardiePlank is not made in two versions: HZ5 and HZ10 with each being location specific - do not install HZ10 in an HZ5 area and do not install HZ5 in an HZ10 area.

OOPS! TYPO! "NOT" should have been "NOW"


Did you mean that JH is made in two versions?

Good info. I'm in HZ5. Live and learn



To clarify the above, yesterday I sent an email verifying that very same issue - I asked if the product is the same for HZ5 and HZ10, or if the difference is only in the installation instructions - no reply back at this time.

I will go back and edit my other post.

Lon, THANK YOU FOR CATCHING THAT!

[Jerry Peck]

To clarify the above, yesterday I sent an email verifying that very same issue - I asked if the product is the same for HZ5 and HZ10, or if the difference is only in the installation instructions - no reply back at this time.

Just received their reply - the products ARE DIFFERENT, as are the installation instructions!

"After studying the long-term effects that different climates have on siding, we created the HardieZone® system, to ensure that you get the right product for your region. HZ5® products are made to resist wet, freezing conditions. HZ10® products protect homes from heat, humidity, blistering sun and more."

The main difference in the installation instructions, from glancing through them both, is that the HZ10 product is permitted to have the trim installed over the siding - while the HZ5 product is not.