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View Full Version : NAHI wins again in US District Court



Scott Patterson
11-16-2007, 02:46 PM
Opinion and Order from the United States District Court, Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division in the matter of NAHI (Plaintiff) vs. InterNACHI (Defendant):
First reported on TIJ by Chad Fabry.

Michael Thomas
11-16-2007, 03:24 PM
The Cliff Note's Version:

"Upon discovering possible violations of the settlement agreement, Plaintiffs counsel sent a message to Defendant's counsel and local counsel. Plaintiffs counsel informed Gromicko that Plaintiff would be filing the instant motion if Gromicko did not comply with the terms of the settlement agreement. In an email dated July 23,2007, Gromicko responded:

P.S. [Plaintiffs counsel], I am an honest man and am doing what I agreed to. We've already done much. We'll have the announcement for of the master InterNACHI plan including an announcement to members that they may want to prepare for the change to INTERnachi up on our site by this coming weekend. I'd say that is lightning speed. As for the rest of your other requests which we never agreed to . . . . go f*** yourself. I know. I'm offensive and immature."

Lewis Capaul
11-16-2007, 03:56 PM
Opinion and Order from the United States District Court, Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division in the matter of NAHI (Plaintiff) vs. InterNACHI (Defendant):
First reported on TIJ by Chad Fabry.

I'll have to quit laughing so hard before I can enter the discussion that will surely follow this. What a laugh, and to think, I was "kicked out" of that silly association for coming to the same conclusion as Judge Borman, I guess like myself and many others the Judge doesn't share Nick and his followers sense of humor

Thanks for the post Scott, like they say it's "priceless", except of course to Nick.

Nolan Kienitz
11-16-2007, 04:01 PM
Scott,

Thanks very much for posting the 'facts'. Here's hoping you don't get slammed like Chad when he posted similar at TIJ.

As I noted ... it is an education for all of us ... then we can formulate our positions from that.

Kind of like any 'good debate'.

Most appreciated Scott.


:)

Brandon Chew
11-16-2007, 04:01 PM
More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned that a US District Court has decreed:




III. CONCLUSION


For the foregoing reasons, the Court hereby:


(4) ORDERS that if Defendant does not replace the instances of "NACHI" with "INTERNACHI" by November 20,2007, the Court ORDERS that Defendant shut down and remove fiom the internet the NACHI.org and INTERNACHI.org websites until such time that Defendant can comply with its obligation under the settlement agreement to replace the instances of "NACHI" with "INTERNACHI."

SO ORDERED.




because the court record says:





In response to Plaintiffs contention that Defendant is not moving quickly enough in transitioning to its new name, Defendant points out that: (1) its webmaster opined that technical and logistical issues in changing the name website-wide would take "up to two years" to complete (Def. Br. Ex. B, Gromicko Aff. 38; Def. Br. Ex. D, Cohen Decl. 9)


Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?

Lewis Capaul
11-16-2007, 04:45 PM
More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned that a US District Court has decreed:





because the court record says:



Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?



Another concern will be the expense and trouble of changing the Logo's and wording on all their marketing materials, web sites, etc. Nick, and others, told members back in July that individuals would not have to change their logos under the original settlement, and even if they were required to do so, there was no time limit, which according to Nick, ment never. So much for his spin.

Dan Harris
11-16-2007, 06:48 PM
More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned that a US District Court has decreed:


Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?


Sounds like ole nick is going to have to call on his vender angles again, this is if there are any left to bail him out on this one..:) :)

Jerry Peck
11-16-2007, 07:33 PM
I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread.

As everyone knows, I am not in NACHI's corner, nor in NAHI's, nor in ASHI's, they have all discredited themselves by bashing each other - at that is my opinion.

Richard Rushing
11-16-2007, 11:22 PM
I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread.

As everyone knows, I am not in NACHI's corner, nor in NAHI's, nor in ASHI's, they have all discredited themselves by bashing each other - at that is my opinion.


I don't take that same stance...
If the truth is out there, by all means, let's have it. No conjecture. No propoganda. Just the facts. Nothing more. Nothing less.

What's so difficult about getting the facts straight. I for one, am appreciative to this and any other forum or media type that will provide me with facts that can and do make a difference in my professional and personal life.

Thanks, Scott and Chad.

rr

Kevin Luce
11-17-2007, 08:02 AM
I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread.

As everyone knows, I am not in NACHI's corner, nor in NAHI's, nor in ASHI's, they have all discredited themselves by bashing each other - at that is my opinion.


I agree with Jerry P. What benefit does posting this information here and making comments about it have since NAHI and ASHI have their own private chat areas? In my opinion, the people that are NACHI members are going to stay a member and the people that do not like NACHI are going to stay not liking NACHI. For the people that have membership to both ASHI and NACHI, I would think that they find benefits spending money to be in both organizations.

Even though I have had a taste of ASHI and NACHI, I do not belong to either.

Jerry Peck
11-17-2007, 08:25 AM
If the truth is out there, by all means, let's have it. No conjecture. No propoganda. Just the facts. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Richard,

Did you read what I said?

"is the evident intent by the title of this thread."

I was not commenting on the contents of Scott's post, just what he chose to title it. To me, that was an unnecessary dig at an association he (and most of us, including myself) feel is a joke.

To avoid potentially pulling in participants who only rant on about association bashing, why head line the post with a title to encourage their participation?

Chad Fabry
11-17-2007, 09:55 AM
The case was NAHI vs NACHI.

NAHI won in court.

What's divisive about that?

There's no association bashing in the title of this thread or in the court order.

It's all statement of fact.

If anyone sees the rendering of a court verdict as divisive or bashing .... well, I just don't get why.

I think it's damn important for independent thinkers and lemmings alike to have a clear understanding of what's going on.

I personally believe that all associations don't have altruistic goals, but also that they have impact on the publics perception of home inspectors. To that end it is important to know what they're up to.

Lewis Capaul
11-17-2007, 09:58 AM
This Court decision was about Association Bashing at it's worst, and the "bashing" was done mostly by Nick Gromicko and his followers, not most Nachi members. Why shouldn't this case be discussed, it concerns the HI Industry as a whole, not just the two Associations involved.

Nick's defenders and spinners have, on this message board, denied every charge this Judge found to be true. One member, a local chapter President, stated he called Nick personally and was told that the original agreement did not concern local chapters or individual members, even though the agreement said exactly the opposite.

The conduct of Gromicko and his group celebrating their self declared victory should have been an embarrassment to all Nachi members and all Home Inspectors everywhere. Nick's celebration was carried out on a public Message board using personal attacks, sexual slurs and innuendos, and outright lies, this has been decided in court, as pointed out in this decision, why is it "Bashing" to point out such conduct?

Scott Patterson
11-17-2007, 10:10 AM
Richard,

Did you read what I said?

"is the evident intent by the title of this thread."

I was not commenting on the contents of Scott's post, just what he chose to title it. To me, that was an unnecessary dig at an association he (and most of us, including myself) feel is a joke.

To avoid potentially pulling in participants who only rant on about association bashing, why head line the post with a title to encourage their participation?

What would be an appropriate title?

NAHI lawsuit against NACHI enforced by US District Court?
NAHI lawsuit against NACHI upheld by higher court?

I thought that the title covered it well

Richard Rushing
11-17-2007, 05:23 PM
What would be an appropriate title?

NAHI lawsuit against NACHI enforced by US District Court?
NAHI lawsuit against NACHI upheld by higher court?

I thought that the title covered it well


Scott,
I agree... there is nothing subversive or subliminial in the content of, "NAHI wins again in US District Court (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-commercial-inspectors/4318-nahi-wins-again-us-district-court-post24589.html#post24589)"

Or was it the word, "again" that has some folks splitting public hairs?

I guess an appropriate response to this post would be;
"Depends on what your definition of *IS*... is.

To repost Jerry's statement:
"I'm not sure why so many feel the need to "association bash" other associations, which (to me) is the evident intent by the title of this thread."

Could it have been that you (Jerry) pre-judged the author of this thread, thinking that you knew why (and apparently you didn't) he did so with alterier motives.

I can't speak for Scott. But, I believe you have to take things at face value instead of making something where it wasn't otherwise there.


rr

Dan Harris
11-17-2007, 05:26 PM
I fail to see how the post is org bashing , what ever the title..
To me it clearly addresses an indivudal that for years has been bashing anybody that does not pay him $ to be certified, and or anybody that does not think the way he does.
His actions that he got nailed for in the lawsuit were the same he used against the owner of this org. that included name calling, adding one letter to this web site address to get inspectors to his site, them bragging about it.

I will admit I find it disturbing knowing that 10,000 [ per his count, ]fellow inspectors, our competition, supports, defends and promotes his, destroy the competion marketing methods.

Jerry Peck
11-17-2007, 05:36 PM
Could it have been that you (Jerry)

Did you read the:


... which (to me) ...

In my post?

Richard Rushing
11-17-2007, 05:44 PM
Yup... read it. :D

Joseph Michalski
11-17-2007, 05:47 PM
I'm not one for organization bashing. I didn't like it when nick did it while I was a member of internachi, and often called him on the carpet for his references to NAHI and ASHI.

I am not a fan of it from any other associations, either. I understand many of the criticisms of the owner of internachi, but that doesn't make the whole org and all its members bad people or bad inspectors (or even any less professional). They demsonstrate their own competence and professionalism individually, by their own conduct.

This decision does reinforce, for me, my recent decision not to rejoin internachi, and instead to join ASHI (we must belong oto a national org here in PA.)

Michael Greenwalt
11-17-2007, 08:06 PM
I don't know maybe:

Nachi loses 2nd lawsuit
or
Nahi wins 2nd lawsuit
or
two associations sue each other, one loses
or
Home inspectors lose out as one association has to sue another
or
Industry full of lawsuits, inspectors lose
or
Associations full of crap, lawsuits fly
or
PC correct to appease everyone.


I thought the first one did just fine, but ahem,,,I read it out of curiosity not disdain.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-17-2007, 08:25 PM
Make sure you join the right association. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org/confusion.htm)

David Nice
11-17-2007, 09:54 PM
What would be an appropriate title?

NAHI lawsuit against NACHI enforced by US District Court?
NAHI lawsuit against NACHI upheld by higher court?

I thought that the title covered it well

Neither. NAHI has won NO case and NO lawsuit was upheld.

What is true is this:
NAHI sued NACHI
NACHI made a settlement offer
NAHI accepted
NAHI didn't like the way NACHI was complying before they had even signed an agreement and filed a motion with the court.

Item 1. of the motion was a requirement of the court regardless of the other parts of the motion. That is a victory for NAHI?

Item 2 The court could not grant enforcement until the agreement was reduced to writing and signed by the appropriate parties, making this an essential requirment for the courts involverment in seeing the agreement was kept by all parties. Not just NACHI. Nearly all aspects of the agreement fell far short of what NAHI was trying to accomplish by filing the lawsuit to begin with.
The victory here is that both parties win by not having to pour thousands of dollars into a court case!

Item 3. Pertains excusively to the costs incurred in preparation of the motion.

Even before the order was issued the judge asked that NACHI alter the logo more. This was done promptly.

There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

NACHI did not even show up for the hearing on the motion. That shows how concerned NACHI was over this.
If this was going to be such a big victory for NAHI, why would NACHI not fight it?

It is sad that any organization can take pride in filing such a bogus lawsuit to begin with. I have yet to meet a sole that actually had NAHI confused with NACHI. All the while NAHI has been blowing $ on lawyers while their memberships are declining like a lead baloon. Do you think this "victory" will pull them out of the hole they dug for themselves?

Since nobody really ever confused NACHI for NAHI, I doubt it!

John Arnold
11-18-2007, 04:31 AM
Make sure you join the right association. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org/confusion.htm)
When I click on that url, my foxfire tab says "Make sure you join the right ass..."

Dan Harris
11-18-2007, 09:45 AM
Neither. NAHI has won NO case and NO lawsuit was upheld.

What is true is this:
NAHI sued NACHI
NACHI made a settlement offer
NAHI accepted
NAHI didn't like the way NACHI was complying before they had even signed an agreement and filed a motion with the court.

Item 1. of the motion was a requirement of the court regardless of the other parts of the motion. That is a victory for NAHI?

Item 2 The court could not grant enforcement until the agreement was reduced to writing and signed by the appropriate parties, making this an essential requirment for the courts involverment in seeing the agreement was kept by all parties. Not just NACHI. Nearly all aspects of the agreement fell far short of what NAHI was trying to accomplish by filing the lawsuit to begin with.
The victory here is that both parties win by not having to pour thousands of dollars into a court case!

Item 3. Pertains excusively to the costs incurred in preparation of the motion.

Even before the order was issued the judge asked that NACHI alter the logo more. This was done promptly.

There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

NACHI did not even show up for the hearing on the motion. That shows how concerned NACHI was over this.
If this was going to be such a big victory for NAHI, why would NACHI not fight it?

It is sad that any organization can take pride in filing such a bogus lawsuit to begin with. I have yet to meet a sole that actually had NAHI confused with NACHI. All the while NAHI has been blowing $ on lawyers while their memberships are declining like a lead baloon. Do you think this "victory" will pull them out of the hole they dug for themselves?

Since nobody really ever confused NACHI for NAHI, I doubt it!


It's always good to hear both sides of the story.
After reading this side.. I guess my oponion is ...dangit, I hate it when the legal system agrees to take on bogus cases, and then make the wrong party a victom, by rendering an oponion based on their liminted understanding, opposed to doing research first on topics beyond their knowelge.

Scott Patterson
11-18-2007, 12:42 PM
There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

Sorry, but this does not fly. I'm afraid that a US District Court Judge would be versed on the topic before issuing a ruling. They have an entire support staff that advises them on issues like this.


There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

And just how do you know this? Let me guess, Nick said so! David you are just a member with no ownership in the organization. You have no vote in what the organizations does or says. The only voice in your organization is Nick and he is like the Wizard of Oz.

This is Nicks Spin on the lawsuit:

Make sure you join the right association.
The little Minneapolis associatin's recent assertion that it won some sort of victory against the defendant, the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Inc is not exactly correct. The defendant named in this very recent motion did not appear in court to fight it at all, giving the Judge no choice. The defendant didn’t even respond to it. Why? Because the defendant agreed with the motion and did not have much of problem with it.

In a previously settled-out-of-court complaint, the little Minneapolis association, which is run by a for-profit company oddly owned by the association’s own Executive Director, claimed that there existed confusion between the 2 organizations and claimed that some inspectors who accidentally joined their Minneapolis association were later displeased to discover that they could not access any Membership Benefits - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nac.org/benefits.htm). The inspector victims of this confusion were even more displeased to discover that they had to fulfill Become Certified! Join InterNACHI today. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nac.org/membership.htm) and pay again to join the right association if they wanted to access and enjoy the member benefits they sought. The embarrassment this was causing the little Minneapolis association is quite understandable.

Both parties, each desiring to reduce this alleged confusion, entered into an mutual agreement (not a forced court order) whereby the National Association Certified Home Inspectors, Inc., though not agreeing to change its corporate name or any website domain name (URL) it used, would however agree to speed up its pre-existing plan begun in 2001, to go international. Part of our willingness was fueled by the resistance experienced in using the "N" word, "National" in other countries where the word means U.S.-only, nationalism, and/or NAZI-ism. And part was fueled by a pre-existing plan to upgrade our logo design to something more emblem or certification seal-like for member marketing purposes. The mutual agreement included an offer by the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Inc. to arrange to change on nachi.org, the logo and acronym, which was but one letter different than the little Minneapolis association’s acronym. This change was made by adding the letters “Inter” in front of its acronym so that it reads "InterNACHI." These brand-maintained changes have been made on all 215,000 webpages.

The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Inc. has never violated any agreement and is confident that the number of victims of confusion has been reduced by these efforts to put distance between the 2 organizations. We are unable to waive our entrance requirements, offer our membership benefits, or give free memberships to inspectors who accidentally joined the wrong association.

Lewis Capaul
11-18-2007, 02:17 PM
Neither. NAHI has won NO case and NO lawsuit was upheld.

What is true is this:
NAHI sued NACHI
NACHI made a settlement offer
NAHI accepted
NAHI didn't like the way NACHI was complying before they had even signed an agreement and filed a motion with the court.

Item 1. of the motion was a requirement of the court regardless of the other parts of the motion. That is a victory for NAHI?

Item 2 The court could not grant enforcement until the agreement was reduced to writing and signed by the appropriate parties, making this an essential requirment for the courts involverment in seeing the agreement was kept by all parties. Not just NACHI. Nearly all aspects of the agreement fell far short of what NAHI was trying to accomplish by filing the lawsuit to begin with.
The victory here is that both parties win by not having to pour thousands of dollars into a court case!

Item 3. Pertains excusively to the costs incurred in preparation of the motion.

Even before the order was issued the judge asked that NACHI alter the logo more. This was done promptly.

There are some issues with repspect to the website that the judge was just plain wrong on but it makes no difference. A lot of judges have little understanding of the nuances of the Internet and the technical nature of some of its uses.

There are some facts not in evidence that may be revealed someday, that might make those who think this is some sort of real victory for NAHI look like idiots.

NACHI did not even show up for the hearing on the motion. That shows how concerned NACHI was over this.
If this was going to be such a big victory for NAHI, why would NACHI not fight it?

It is sad that any organization can take pride in filing such a bogus lawsuit to begin with. I have yet to meet a sole that actually had NAHI confused with NACHI. All the while NAHI has been blowing $ on lawyers while their memberships are declining like a lead baloon. Do you think this "victory" will pull them out of the hole they dug for themselves?

Since nobody really ever confused NACHI for NAHI, I doubt it!


Are you sure Nick is not lying to you again David? I seem to recall a post you made back in July or so where you said you talked to Nick personally and he told you that neither members or local chapters were effected by the "agreement" and that, for one thing, members would not have to change their logo's to the New InterNachi logo.

Also back in July, before I was "kicked" out for questioniong Nick's Great Victory, I asked Nick, on your message board, which Logo members should or could use, his new inter-Nachi with the little letters, or the InterNachi logo that had already existed for a year or so, which I posted. He claimed that I was confusing his sheep by showing both logo's, isn't it funny though that he later changed his logo to a slightly modified version of the InterNachi logo I had posted. Even more interesting is that now, as myself and others stated back then, all members are required to change their logo's also, just as it said in the original agreement, that the Court is now enforcing. It seems that Nick lied to you once again when he told you that there was no enforceable time limit on changing things, now InterNachi has two more days to comply, funny.

Maybe Nick didn't show up in Court this time because he knew he had already lost, I'd say maybe he didn't show up because, after his conduct celebrating his Great Victory, he was too embarrassed to do so, but we all know Nick is never embarrassed or wrong in his actions don't we. For what ever reason Nick still ends up paying for all the legal fees this time around, at least maybe he saved the money he'd have paid his incompetent attorney to defend a lost cause.

I like how Nick, in his spin, refers to Inspectors who "Accidentally joined the Wrong Association", looking at the requirements and procedures to join the various Association it appears that the only one that could be "accidentally" joined would be InterNachi, which with it's simplistic online exam is the only one someone could join without leaving home, the others require a proctored exam and the completion of a couple of hundred inspections to claim full membership rights and benefits.

I also find it interesting that Nick brings up the "N" word as he calls it, Nazism, which according to his appointed spokesman and dirt deed doer Bushart, is a sign that the argument has been lost, by the person who chooses to use the word.

His claim of having preplanned his change of logo to the current one would make some sense, if he had not defended the original, inadequate, change so vigorously and loudly by telling us how he had "outsmarted" NAHI once again. His spin must work, at least on sheep who continue to believe his every "fabrication" and story line.

I see some "Non-Member" finally posted the Court Decision on your Website at around 1:00PM yesterday, so far only two responses, and one of those is Nick. Quite a different response than to Nicks earlier claims of Victory back in July or so, I wonder why Nick or Bushart weren't in such a big rush to post this new information, and just when they are going to inform the general membership that ALL Nachi Logos must be changed?

Lewis Capaul
11-18-2007, 03:44 PM
Having been affiliated with the NACHI Organization since the days of fewer than 50 Members, this case deservedly needs to go back to the Courts.

Case should not have been settled.

NACHI will ultimately prevail.

Seeing as Nick did not appear or provide a defense, according to him, in this latest Court Case he will have a very, very difficult time in getting an appeal. According to his posts on your message board no appeal should be necessary, he's not concerned and the Courts finding's. like the original agreement, mean nothing and are of no consequence, at least, again, according to Nick, He claims that he will not pay any legal fees this time, because he didn't incur any, the Judge seems to disagree. Like I asked Mr. Nice, just how many times are you going to believe Nick's stories before you begin to show some doubt as to his honesty.

It seems that the Court, by Nick's statement, has found that InterNachi Members are part of this legal battle and are effected by its decision, contrary to what Nick and his followers, like you, have been preaching. He says he made no response, yet the Court Record shows that he responded at least twice. hmmmm? I'm wondering that seeing as members are apart of the settlement, if Nick refuses to pay NAHI's legal fees, whether or not NAHI could take action through the Court to collect those fee's from Michigan InterNachi Inspectors and Chapters, just a thought.

Dan, we have no legal bills for defending that little Minneapolis association's latest attack. We presented no defense to it at all. We didn't even respond to the motion they filed. Now can you figure out why?.... N. Gromicko
NACHI Inspectors are stupid - InterNACHI Message Board (http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22496)

Jerry Peck
11-18-2007, 06:35 PM
:D

I *knew* this is where this thread would lead to.

:D

Rick Bunzel
11-18-2007, 06:57 PM
I predict that this is far from over and that the lawyers will be back before the judge when NAHI (I am a member) goes to collect on the legal fees it is now entitled to. Kinda reminds me of when Richard Butler of the Aryan Nations lost the 20 acre headquarters compound in Idaho....


Could Nick lose as well? Nederland may be a nicer place..

Sorry I couldn't resist,

//Rick

James Duffin
11-18-2007, 07:23 PM
I'm just glad you can be a HI without being a member of any aftermarket organization. These groups are like "glass-packs" on a stock vehicle. They sound good but don't improve the performance.

Jerry Peck
11-18-2007, 07:48 PM
I'm just glad you can be a HI without being a member of any aftermarket organization.

That's the problem, and the reason NACHI came to exist ... PA requires their members to belong to an 'national' association. I have been told that this was promulgated by PA ASHI members who were trying to protect their territory from newer inspectors who could not 'just join' a 'national association', that they had to go through the hazing process to join and become a 'member' before the new inspectors could actually begin inspecting and start taking 'market share' from the 'olde guard'.

Thus, if the above has any ring of truth in it, ASHI method and intelligence is responsible for the existence of NACHI. :)

How about those apples? :D

Billy Stephens
11-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Maybe Nick didn't show up in Court this time because he knew he had already lost,


If I Knew I was Not in Compliance with the Federal Courts earlier Ruling and was not compelled to attend a compliance hearing I would not GO! Contempt of Court would be a very Real Possibility.

As far as Having a Judgment Entered against you and saying there are no Legal Fees.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-18-2007, 08:07 PM
That's the problem, and the reason NACHI came to exist ... PA requires their members to belong to an 'national' association. I have been told that this was promulgated by PA ASHI members who were trying to protect their territory from newer inspectors who could not 'just join' a 'national association', that they had to go through the hazing process to join and become a 'member' before the new inspectors could actually begin inspecting and start taking 'market share' from the 'olde guard'.

Thus, if the above has any ring of truth in it, ASHI method and intelligence is responsible for the existence of NACHI. :)

How about those apples? :D

Pretty accurate representation.

NACHI was originally formed (in the Early 1990's) to be comprised of a select (few) number of Elite Inspectors. Legislation spearheaded by ASHI in PA defined a Home Inspection Organization as having Members in 10 States.

As a result, the Pennsylvania Association of Home Inspectors (PABI) ceased to exist.

NACHI (without an internet presence in 2000-2001) expanded its recruitment efforts to become not only a National but International Organization in market penetration. I worked with Nick to recruit and establish the Singapore Chapter of NACHI.

PA Legislation (in small part) along with the up and coming ASHI Branding Efforts (a large factor) drove the NACHI membership ranks into the thousands.

The early growth of NACHI was planned and deliberate focusing on key geographic markets and opportunities afforded by the Alternative Associations who failed to fulfill the needs of their respective Members.

James Duffin
11-18-2007, 09:05 PM
Wow....those tales are pretty amazing! I now feel fortunate that I am able to inspect without the blessing of anyone but the state.

David Nice
11-18-2007, 09:12 PM
Are you sure Nick is not lying to you again David? I seem to recall a post you made back in July or so where you said you talked to Nick personally and he told you that neither members or local chapters were effected by the "agreement" and that, for one thing, members would not have to change their logo's to the New InterNachi logo.

<snip>...Even more interesting is that now, as myself and others stated back then, all members are required to change their logo's also, just as it said in the original agreement, that the Court is now enforcing.

Lewis,

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Do you have a problem reading? NACHI members are not a party to the suit and are under no obligation to change anything, ever! If you will notice in the order, it was NAHI that referenced Nick's statement and the judge addressed the other issues but kept silent on that issue and granted NAHI nothing in that regard.

It doesn't take a law degree to understand that a judge cannot enforce an order on people (or organizations) who are not a party to the matter. NACHI members are not NACHI owners and have no control over what the corporation does. The court can only enforce a matter (as it has) to the corporation and it's paid employees, period. Get over it.

No doubt most members will eventually use the new logo but no judge in Michigan is going to order thousands of businesses across the country to change the logos on their marketing materials and those painted on the side of their vehicles. (Hence the judges silence) Expecting them to do so is just another example of NAHIs malicious intent and hope to also drive NACHI members out of business. Some of their members and a chapter in PA has crossed over the line and will likely pay dearly.

David Nice
11-18-2007, 09:39 PM
More significant than a NAHI "victory" or any association vs association bashing that may erupt as a result of this thread, if I was a NACHI inspector I would be extremely concerned...,<snip>


Is NACHI going to be able to meet the court imposed deadline that is four days from today? If not, what happens then?

A 2-3 year appeals process.

Lewis Capaul
11-18-2007, 09:55 PM
PA Legislation (in small part) along with the up and coming ASHI Branding Efforts (a large factor) drove the NACHI membership ranks into the thousands..

PA Legislation drove Nachi membership and ASHI desertions drove "thousands" of members into Nachi???? Do you even think before you spout Nick's propaganda Joe?

You know as well as the rest of us that what drove "Nick's Club" membership up was an internet marketing campaign and lack of standards for becoming "Certified", along with the right to use a "Certified" logo instead of having to be a Candidate or Associate to market an Inspectors membership in an Association. The ability to advertise a Certification without the need to have any experience at all by taking a simple online test, that anyone could take in someone else's name. As I understand it the "Test" wasn't even a requirement when you first started, is that true?

Like one of you and Bushart's favorite Nachi memberrs said earlier this year, ""I've been told behind the scenes that NACHI is for newbies until they get their feet and then they move on to ASHI when they are ready to fly and be professionals. "

As far as being confused, the only confusion that many Inspectors suffer are those InterNachi members who believed they had joined a real Home Inspector's Association , it seems that many are leaving once they realize the mistake they made, or as your favorite member said, performed enough inspections to join a Real Association, if they feel the need to belong to one at all.

David Nice
11-18-2007, 10:23 PM
... it seems that many are leaving once they realize the mistake they made, or as your favorite member said, performed enough inspections to join a Real Association, if they feel the need to belong to one at all.

Funny that it took your getting thrown out to get you to leave.

OH, I forgot. I had agreed (some time back) not to engage you due to your circular thinking and antagonism. So go ahead and get the last word. It will probably be another fabrication of yours anyway. Too bad you don't realize how incredibly transparent you are. Bye

Billy Stephens
11-18-2007, 10:28 PM
A 2-3 year appeals process.

Dave,

Please take a deep breath and reread the Federal Court Review.

The parties agreed to dismiss all other pending proceedings.

The Defendant named in the suit is NACHI.

Nick was excluded by agreement from any liability,individually,as an officer,director. Page 6 of 20

Defendant agrees to change it's name------in all other public uses--commercial,publicity and marketing purposes. Defendant will use the name "INTERNACHI"

This is a Federal Court and not some judge in Mich.

I have no dog in this just Reading.

Lewis Capaul
11-18-2007, 10:36 PM
Lewis,

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Do you have a problem reading? NACHI members are not a party to the suit and are under no obligation to change anything, ever! If you will notice in the order, it was NAHI that referenced Nick's statement and the judge addressed the other issues but kept silent on that issue and granted NAHI nothing in that regard.

It doesn't take a law degree to understand that a judge cannot enforce an order on people (or organizations) who are not a party to the matter. NACHI members are not NACHI owners and have no control over what the corporation does. The court can only enforce a matter (as it has) to the corporation and it's paid employees, period. Get over it.

No doubt most members will eventually use the new logo but no judge in Michigan is going to order thousands of businesses across the country to change the logos on their marketing materials and those painted on the side of their vehicles. (Hence the judges silence) Expecting them to do so is just another example of NAHIs malicious intent and hope to also drive NACHI members out of business. Some of their members and a chapter in PA has crossed over the line and will likely pay dearly.

Maybe the Judge should have included cartoon drawings in his opinion so people like you can understand without having to read. Maybe you missed this part: On September 17,2007, Defendant filed a Reply to Plaintiffs Response arguing that: (1)
changing all references from "NACHI" to "INTERNACHI" requires a substantial and timeconsuming
effort; (2) Defendant's MEMBERS will be REQUIRED to switch to the "INTERNACHI"
name once the new INTERNACHI.org site is launched;

I do believe the Defendant is Nick Gromicko and Nachi and NAHI the Plaintiff. Of course Nick told all you sheep that he didn't respond or take part in this at all seeing as it was so insignificant and unimportant to him, he also responded on Sept 12 if you read the Judges opinion instead of Nick's latest spin.

As far as an Appeal, if what Nick said is true, that he ignored this action, then he will have a very difficult time in convincing any Judge to accept an appeal. When you don't show up at a hearing you waive that right in most instances, by not showing up you accept the judgment of the court, however it comes out. Nick's disdain for the court and his publicly posted remarks after this judgment, like his remarks after the first agreement, won't play too well in any Judges Court.

He says he doesn't have any legal costs to pay, the judge says different. According to this judgment or opinion, members are included in the court ordered settlement, I'm not saying they can or even would, but NAHI may have a claim against Nachi members in Michigan if Nick refuses to settle and they the members continue to use the NACHI Logo.

What you don't seem to understand is that except for on the paperwork that was used to set up Nachi as a corporation and nonprofit organization, NACHI no longer exists. Nick, by this order can no longer call his Association NACHI or refer to it as such in any marketing, it is now InterNachi, neither can any other business, and yes a Federal Judge's ruling can effect all Nachi Inspectors, if not then NAHI could file the same lawsuit against individuals who continue to use the NACHI logos, using this judgment as precedence.

We've had this discussion before, you were wrong on every point, the Judge decided almost exactly as myself and others predicted, and Nick by his reply on Sept. 17 sealed the deal, if you had any argument about whether or not changing your logo was mandatory or not you don't now, read his reply once again...MEMBERS....REQUIRED.

Two more days and at least one of Nick's sites should disappear, Home Inspector - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org), it's mirror site INTERNACHI.ORG (http://www.internachi.org) is up and running, it will be interesting if it doesn't.

Confused seems to be the new catch phrase for InterNachi sheep, I can see why, the sheep can't read.

Lewis Capaul
11-18-2007, 10:59 PM
Funny that it took your getting thrown out to get you to leave.

OH, I forgot. I had agreed (some time back) not to engage you due to your circular thinking and antagonism. So go ahead and get the last word. It will probably be another fabrication of yours anyway. Too bad you don't realize how incredibly transparent you are. Bye

You keep making accusations of fabrications David, show me one, your buddy Mr Larson couldn't demonstrate any fabrication on my part either after making the same accusations, unfounded accusations and name calling seem to be the only play book you guys have. If you want to read fabrications goe to your own message board and start reading Nick's statements over this matter beginning around the middle of July, compare his statements then about Logos , who had to change them, and the "confusion" caused by my posting the InterNachi logo that he now uses in a slightly modified form, how adding "inter" to his logo wasn't a change, and then compare it to the logo he now uses and his statement to the court on 17 Sept......there's fabrication.

Poor Dave, sold out by his fearless and wonderful leader.

David Nice
11-18-2007, 11:55 PM
Dave,

Please take a deep breath and reread the Federal Court Review.

The parties agreed to dismiss all other pending proceedings.

Except for tose in PA (that is part of the agreement) page 9 item #10 and I'm breathing fine thanks.

The Defendant named in the suit is NACHI.

Nick was excluded by agreement from any liability,individually,as an officer,director. Page 6 of 20

Defendant agrees to change it's name------in all other public uses--commercial,publicity and marketing purposes. Defendant will use the name "INTERNACHI"[/quote]

So what s your point.



This is a Federal Court and not some judge in Mich.

I have no dog in this just Reading.It is a Federal Court because it is a Federal Matter but the juristiction of the Southern Division of the Eastern district of Michigan was mutaully agreed upon by both parties. That does not give it juristiction over people who are not officers or employees of the corporation and still no authority over business owners in 50 states+.

An agreement that al members will be required to change logos would simply be unenforcable. The click to verify logos on members websites changed automatically. They are on the NACHI server system. That is the only use of logos that NACHI has any control over. One can see in the order itself that the terms of the agreement never included requiring mermbers to switch logos..

Can you just imagine the US District Court Souther Division of the Easter District of Michigan mobilizing the FBI to run around the country arresting inspectors for having a NACHI logos on their trucks and brochures, on NAHI's behalf. One might have to change the NAHI name by switching the "H' for a "Z".

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4024/usa26mo.gif

Billy Stephens
11-19-2007, 12:41 AM
Except for tose in PA (that is part of the agreement) page 9 item #10 and I'm breathing fine thanks.


Thats a PA State matter.

The Defendant named in the suit is NACHI.

Nick was excluded by agreement from any liability,individually,as an officer,director. Page 6 of 20

Defendant agrees to change it's name------in all other public uses--commercial,publicity and marketing purposes. Defendant will use the name "INTERNACHI"
So what s your point.

Billy
NACHI is the defendant Not Corporate Officers or Individuals the whole Group.
The Federal Court System has many Jurisdictions. They agreed on this one instead of say New York, Missouri, Western Tennessee.


Dave
It is a Federal Court because it is a Federal Matter but the juristiction of the Southern Division of the Eastern district of Michigan was mutaully agreed upon by both parties. That does not give it juristiction over people who are not officers or employees of the corporation and still no authority over business owners in 50 states+.


Billy
A Federal Judgment is good in any part of the country and is enforceable anywhere
not just in say Michigan.


Dave
An agreement that al members will be required to change logos would simply be unenforcable. The click to verify logos on members websites changed automatically. They are on the NACHI server system. That is the only use of logos that NACHI has any control over. One can see in the order itself that the terms of the agreement never included requiring mermbers to switch logos..


Dave
Can you just imagine the US District Court Souther Division of the Easter District of Michigan mobilizing the FBI to run around the country arresting inspectors for having a NACHI logos on their trucks and brochures, on NAHI's behalf. One might have to change the NAHI name by switching the "H' for a "Z".

Billy
No but I can imagine Federal Court houses all over that would hear a complaint
brought before it based on this case.

The still pending litigation in PA is a Pennsylvania State Law matter not Federal


The agree upon dropped litigation was with prejudice so they can not be reinstated.

Lewis Capaul
11-19-2007, 01:25 AM
Can you just imagine the US District Court Souther Division of the Easter District of Michigan mobilizing the FBI to run around the country arresting inspectors for having a NACHI logos on their trucks and brochures, on NAHI's behalf. One might have to change the NAHI name by switching the "H' for a "Z".[/B][/I]

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4024/usa26mo.gif[/QUOTE]

You really are a lamb aren't you David, blindly following the ringing of the head sheep's bell. Nick make's reference to Nazism in his spin about being confused, and here you are just tagging along making the same sounds.

Another of your Hero's though, Bushart, claims that the first person to bring up the Nazi reference has already lost the argument, but then you, Nick and others lost this one 4 months ago, the Judge just made it official.

Associations already enforce the unauthorized use of their logo's and marketing materials David, some like InterNachi and ASHI threaten inspectors with lawsuits if they do not remove them from marketing materials. InterNachi even kicks people out for NOT Displaying the InterNachi Logo, so it would not be too difficult for NAHI to use the same methods in enforcing the Judges order anywhere in the Nation. No need for the FBI.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-19-2007, 06:19 AM
PA Legislation drove Nachi membership and ASHI desertions drove "thousands" of members into Nachi???? Do you even think before you spout Nick's propaganda Joe?



I do not recall Nick ever making a suggestion. I posted only what I Know to be Factual.

I participated with Nick in a national recruitment campaign to expand the Membership of NACHI. Hundreds of Member Applications were received by myself for processing / forwarding.

- ASHI missed the mark with Branding.
- NACHI capitalized upon it.

Win-Win for all...

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-19-2007, 06:24 AM
As I understand it the "Test" wasn't even a requirement when you first started, is that true?



In the early days of NACHI, Most Inspectors were already Members of ASHI and NAHI.

THE ASHI, NHIE, NAHI, NIBI, etc... exams were (and continue to remain) qualifiers for Membership. NACHI developed its own exam sometime in 2000 to the best of my recollection.

Scott Patterson
11-19-2007, 08:25 AM
A question for those of you who know or are student of this court case.

Does this new ruling mean that after November 20, 2007 (tomorrow) that the NACHI Internet address of Home Inspector - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org) can no longer be used? And that it must now be INTERNACHI.ORG (http://www.internachi.org?)

I really do not know the answer to this, but this would be the largest blow of all. Nick depends so much on the Internet that this could really hurt.

Thread drift: Has anyone ever put a pen to the paper and compared what NACHI tax forms say to what Nick purports? I was shown the 2006 figures last week and if you take the amount of money NACHI took in and divide it by $289 you come up with about 4,000 members, far short of the famed 10,000.

Nolan Kienitz
11-19-2007, 08:35 AM
... Thread drift: Has anyone ever put a pen to the paper and compared what NACHI tax forms say to what Nick purports? I was shown the 2006 figures last week and if you take the amount of money NACHI took in and divide it by $289 you come up with about 4,000 members, far short of the famed 10,000.

I personally know several 'members' that were gratis. Now ... can that be summed up to 6K free membership? ;)

David Nice
11-19-2007, 10:40 AM
A question for those of you who know or are student of this court case.

Does this new ruling mean that after November 20, 2007 (tomorrow) that the NACHI Internet address of Home Inspector - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org) can no longer be used? And that it must now be INTERNACHI.ORG (http://www.internachi.org?)

I really do not know the answer to this, but this would be the largest blow of all. Nick depends so much on the Internet that this could really hurt.

No,the domain name can continue to be used.


Thread drift: Has anyone ever put a pen to the paper and compared what NACHI tax forms say to what Nick purports? I was shown the 2006 figures last week and if you take the amount of money NACHI took in and divide it by $289 you come up with about 4,000 members, far short of the famed 10,000.Most recent stats put the membership at right about 8000+. That is down a bit as one would expect in a supressed market. The numbers do not add up because everyone does not pay the $289. There are free 1 year memberships raffled of at many chapter meetings as well as discounts in conjuction with educational events. There is no way to use the tax returns to determine membership.

Campare that with the 890 members left in NAHI. That is nearly half of their recently claimed total of 1700+ (which was really more like 1200+). That is some pretty grim handwriting on the wall. So after spending a bunch of money on legal fees to try to persue a pretty bogus case to begin with, can they really convince their members that they are somehow winners of anything of real value?

Richard Rushing
11-19-2007, 11:04 AM
Quote from D. Nice:
"Campare that with the 890 members left in NAHI. That is nearly half of their recently claimed total of 1700+ (which was really more like 1200+). That is some pretty grim handwriting on the wall. So after spending a bunch of money on legal fees to try to persue a pretty bogus case to begin with, can they really convince their members that they are somehow winners of anything of real value?"
__________________________________________________ ______

You might want to go back and review the document posted... the legal fees are to be paid by INterNachi... not NAHI.
:confused:

The court awarded reasonable attorney's fees in connection with bringing the July 27th motion, including the Plaintiff's counsel's briefing and the appearance at the September 5th 2007 motion hearing. The only thing the court did not award attorney's fees for was in connection with the supplemental briefing (see page 19).

rr

Lewis Capaul
11-19-2007, 11:27 AM
I do not recall Nick ever making a suggestion. I posted only what I Know to be Factual.

I participated with Nick in a national recruitment campaign to expand the Membership of NACHI. Hundreds of Member Applications were received by myself for processing / forwarding.

- ASHI missed the mark with Branding.
- NACHI capitalized upon it.

Win-Win for all...

How many InterNachi members are there in PA Joe, and how did any legislation there drive "thousands" into Nick's Association. Recent polls conducted on your own message board show that most members join Nachi and then move on to ASHI than join after being members of ASHI. Ms Forsyth seems to have been correct when she posted her "behind the scenes information about why people joined your association.

I don't disagree with your story of why or how Nachi began, only in the exaggeration that "thousands" were driven there by PA legislation and ASHI policy. No doubt many ASHI members may have joined because of dissatisfaction with ASHI, but many (most?) of those kept there ASHI memberships, and still do today.

As far as numbers go today, supposedly Nick claims 8000, down from 10,000 in February. As Scott pointed out, membership fees collected only show around 4000 members, does that mean that the missing 4000 may be Nick's Vendors?

10k to 8k, that's a 20&#37; drop in membership, just months after Nick was telling everyone how their memberships would be worth Thousands of $$$$ due to membership having reached his 10k limit, I asked him back then about after reaching his 10k membership limit he was still giving away free memberships every where you looked, and if he was doing that because of the great number of members who left after their first free year of membership, I was told membership numbers were none of my business.

20% seems pretty low for what I've seen around here and what others have reported in different areas of the West, InterNachi has suffered 70% to 80% drops in membership here, while ASHI, NAHI, and the franchises have remained the same. Why is that?

I do agree with Nick though, many Inspectors and wannabe Inspectors were confused when they joined Nachi, they thought they were joining a Home Inspectors Association, not a Public Relations Firm.

The issue in this thread though is the Case in Michigan and the consequences to InterNachi members who must, as many of us said months ago, now change there logos and marketing, just as it was stated in the original agreement before Nick's lies about members not being effected.

Why isn't this getting all the attention over there in Nick's World that his original Victory celebration received, it seems his flock have little to say about the judgment there, and those who agree with the Judge are too afraid to argue about it for fear that they may be "Kicked Out" before their memberships expire. That has been known to happen in Nick's World.

Billy Stephens
11-19-2007, 11:31 AM
David Nice,

A review of your 95 post and 3 threads shows NACHI or related (maybe 3 other being nice),inputs.

Your wed site and Google search shows Server Not Found.

Are you a party of this litigation?

Is your name correct?

Where are you from?

What do you do for a living?

Please post something creditable to confirm your identify.

Dave,

Never mind as I see you are Founder and President of Wisconsin Chapter NACHI.

Strange you have not commented on this subject at INTERNACI site.

David Nice
11-19-2007, 01:26 PM
Quote from D. Nice:
"Campare that with the 890 members left in NAHI. That is nearly half of their recently claimed total of 1700+ (which was really more like 1200+). That is some pretty grim handwriting on the wall. So after spending a bunch of money on legal fees to try to persue a pretty bogus case to begin with, can they really convince their members that they are somehow winners of anything of real value?"
__________________________________________________ ______

You might want to go back and review the document posted... the legal fees are to be paid by INterNachi... not NAHI.
:confused:

The court awarded reasonable attorney's fees in connection with bringing the July 27th motion, including the Plaintiff's counsel's briefing and the appearance at the September 5th 2007 motion hearing. The only thing the court did not award attorney's fees for was in connection with the supplemental briefing (see page 19).

rr

Not quite. There was the prep and filing for the case, earlier hearings and all the depositions $$ and work towards nailing down the agreement. NAHI was not awarded attorneys fees for any of that AND not for the supplimental briefing. 1 motion and 1 hearing, that's it.

David Nice
11-19-2007, 01:42 PM
David Nice,

A review of your 95 post and 3 threads shows NACHI or related (maybe 3 other being nice),inputs.

You reviewed 95 of my posts to tell me that? Now who are the sick ones here.


Your wed site and Google search shows Server Not Found.Server is temporarily down, try again later.


Are you a party of this litigation?No


Is your name correct?That depends.


Where are you from?Read my sig


What do you do for a living?

Please post something creditable to confirm your identify.

Dave,

Never mind as I see you are Founder and President of Wisconsin Chapter NACHI.

Strange you have not commented on this subject at INTERNACI site.Not strange at all. For the most part we understand the settlement and have moved on. I can see that some here don't really understand some of the details and nuances of the settlement but claim that they do. It is not easy to wade through court documents and figure out what it really means.

David Nice
11-19-2007, 01:47 PM
The issue in this thread though is the Case in Michigan and the consequences to InterNachi members who must, as many of us said months ago, now change there logos and marketing, just as it was stated in the original agreement before Nick's lies about members not being effected.

You apparently think that if you keep repeating it that it will somehow magically become true.

Billy Stephens
11-19-2007, 02:14 PM
Dave,

Thank You for unblocking your site.

Thank You for displaying the INTERNACI Logo on your site.

Thank You for your Interpretations of a plainly written Federal Court Order.

Thank You for your concerns for my health.(wasted 18 seconds scanning subject topics listed for you)

Surely you have many things to do in the state of Wisconsin concerning upcoming changes other than Help some of us understand,get over it and move on.

Lewis Capaul
11-19-2007, 03:16 PM
You apparently think that if you keep repeating it that it will somehow magically become true.

The fact that all InterNachi members must change their marketing to InterNachi is already true David, Nick said so in his own statement.

You may be right that members can get away with not changing because of lack of enforcement, that seems to be the Nachi/InterNachi response to any Law of Judgment they don't like, just read the hundreds of posts made by your buddy Bushart about Washington SPI Licensing and the thread about his loophole logic and how he could get around any HI Law written, and even that might be true, not honest and not in accordance with your COE, but then Bushart controls that, but it does seem to be the InterNachi way.

Ignoring State Laws, Court Judgements, using Loopholes, that says a lot right there about many of the Inspectors in your organization, thankfully there are many honest and capable Inspectors there who don't go along with your leader's policies regarding that. You don't seem to be one of those.

I could post Nick's "reply" regarding the Change in Logo etc. again, but you've proven that you can't read or comprehend, others can, they've already read what Nick said, and find it clear.

Me I'm just trying to stir the pot and get as many InterNachi replies on this matter as I can, if InterNachi fails to obey the Judges order in the way he described, then he will have many more Internet postings to use as to why his order was not complied with, just like he had for making his decision this time.

Just think, if Nick and the Gang had not celebrated so "loudly" back in July, Nick may have had a defense when it came to this motion, he won't have any the next time either.

Dan Harris
11-19-2007, 06:31 PM
I hope Brian is collecting advertizing $s from nick for all the publicly he's getting here..especially when nicks moto is.. any source of advertizing is good advertizing for him. :)

Billy Stephens
11-19-2007, 06:41 PM
. any source of advertizing is good . :)



Dan,

I would not think this is the case.

David Nice
11-19-2007, 07:30 PM
Dave,

Thank You for unblocking your site.

Thank You for displaying the INTERNACI Logo on your site.

Thank You for your Interpretations of a plainly written Federal Court Order.

Thank You for your concerns for my health.(wasted 18 seconds scanning subject topics listed for you)

Surely you have many things to do in the state of Wisconsin concerning upcoming changes other than Help some of us understand,get over it and move on.

1. Never blocked my site, just a server problem.
2. The InterNACHI logo was not my doing. It is part of a click to verify link that is on the nachi.org server. Not my doing.
3. Some people can't seem to differentiate the allegations from the order.
5. Though I don't wish it on anyone, I probably don't care if you drop dead tomorrow.
6. There is plenty to do here in Wisconsin but nonthing that is even remotely related to any alleged reqirements.

Billy Stephens
11-19-2007, 07:43 PM
Though I don't wish it on anyone, I probably don't care if you drop dead tomorrow.




Does that Mean We can't be friends Dave ?

David Nice
11-19-2007, 08:00 PM
Does that Mean We can't be friends Dave ?

No, its just the current truth. Nothing is engraved in stone, unless of course it is something engraved in stone.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9036/deatheo8.gif

Billy Stephens
11-19-2007, 08:10 PM
No, its just the current truth. Nothing is engraved in stone, unless of course it is something engraved in stone.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9036/deatheo8.gif


Ah Dave and I was pulling for you on that Truck Driving Gig.

Rick Bunzel
11-19-2007, 11:29 PM
In Michigan its 11/20/07 and InterNachi is going to have either prove that it has met the terms or face the cold hard wheels of justice.

Will they meet the terms? stay tuned!

Deleted Account
11-20-2007, 06:11 AM
In Michigan its 11/20/07 and InterNachi is going to have either prove that it has met the terms or face the cold hard wheels of justice.

Will they meet the terms? stay tuned!


Who in Michigan will be required to provide this proof? The inspector on the street? The association located in Colorado? Nick Gromicko?

Do you think that NAHI (spit) can really win anything here, once NAHI has pissed away its last members dollars in legal fees what then prevents InterNACHI from moving its operations to the Grand Caymans outside the grasp of this district court? Grab cold beverage and relax, we ain't even at half-time.

If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you have obviously underestimated your opponents strength. ;)

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-20-2007, 07:10 AM
Make sure you join the right association. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org/confusion.htm)

Update: The Judge dismissed the National Association of Home Inspectors, Inc's lawsuit on November 15, 2007 but will retain jurisdiction to make sure both parties abide by the settlement agreement.

Brandon Chew
11-20-2007, 07:31 AM
Update: The Judge dismissed the National Association of Home Inspectors, Inc's lawsuit on November 15, 2007 but will retain jurisdiction to make sure both parties abide by the settlement agreement.

The dismissal is routine court business related to carrying out the order that was posted at the start of this thread. Once the court issues an order and takes jurisdiction then the suit which brought it about needs to be dismissed. From the original Opinion and Order:





D. Entry of Order of Dismissal


The Court will enter a separate Order of Dismissal incorporating the terms of the parties' settlement agreement. The Court will further insert a provision retaining jurisdiction over that settlement agreement.

Lewis Capaul
11-20-2007, 11:52 AM
Make sure you join the right association. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org/confusion.htm)

Update: The Judge dismissed the National Association of Home Inspectors, Inc's lawsuit on November 15, 2007 but will retain jurisdiction to make sure both parties abide by the settlement agreement.



Why shouldn't the Judge dismiss NAHI's Lawsuit against InterNachi, a court ordered agreement has been reached, Lawsuits don't go on after the Courts have taken charge of enforcing an agreement.

More Nachi Spin, Gromicko tells his members he never responded to Nahi's motion, he says that he offered no defense at all to the motion because it was meaningless. When confronted though and presented with the facts shown in the Judges Opinion, the one we are discussing and the one that has been posted on sever message boards, he claims wee are discussing the wrong "Motion", he's talking about, he says, one filed on 8 November, which would appear to be the motion to dismiss the lawsuit that the Judge stated in his opinion on 13 Nov, the one we are discussing. Nick once again attempts to use deception to keep his members in the dark.

He told me that he, InterNachi, had no need to present a defense or to respond to the motion because the two associations had reached an "agreement" back in July, of course he won't discuss the fact that it took a U.S. Federal Judge on 13 Nov to force him to comply with that July Agreement.

Joe once again performs his function as Nick's Spin Doctor on other Message Boards. The Lawsuit as Joe says was probably dismissed, but the Court still has authority over InterNachis actions regarding the settlement, and Nick and his sheep don't want to discuss that, other than to boast about how they can avoid complying which is standard InterNachi policy when it comes to Laws they don't like.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-20-2007, 03:27 PM
Joe once again performs his function as Nick's Spin Doctor on other Message Boards.



Nothing to spin. The NACHI Organization is alive and well....

Dan Harris
11-20-2007, 05:36 PM
Nothing to spin. The NACHI Organization is alive and well....

Joe... Is there any truth to the rumor thats going around claiming nicks moving his headquarters to the caymon islands, and sharing office space with that insurance, Ladow guy, the guy he endorsed and then ripped off 100s of inspectors for e@o ..

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-20-2007, 05:47 PM
Joe... Is there any truth to the rumor thats going around claiming nicks moving his headquarters to the caymon islands, and sharing office space with that insurance, Ladow guy, the guy he endorsed and then ripped off 100s of inspectors for e@o ..



As YOU appear to be the Source of the Rumor...

I can Honestly say that there is NO Truth whatsoever to your posting...

Billy Stephens
11-20-2007, 06:13 PM
For Those Who Might Have a Need.


International Extradition - McNabb Associates, P.C. (http://www.internationalextradition.com)

Deleted Account
11-20-2007, 09:26 PM
I can Honestly say that there is NO Truth whatsoever to your posting...




Hey Joe, stop screwing with my experiment. Like Pavlov, I'm working on my own version of classical conditioning, soon with just the mention of NACHI they will begin to salivate & bay at the moon. :)


NACHI

John McKenna
11-21-2007, 04:19 AM
FACT... Defendant did not show up for court the day of the ruling.

Why?

FACT.... Changes completed... why bother?

FACT.... NACHI is still online.

yawn... much ado about nothing.

Read this please.
Make sure you join the right association. - The National Association of Certified Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.org/confusion.htm)

Lewis Capaul
11-21-2007, 10:25 AM
As YOU appear to be the Source of the Rumor...

I can Honestly say that there is NO Truth whatsoever to your posting...

No Joe, that would be your buddy the other Joe, the one attempting to "condition" us so that we don't automatically laugh when we hear or see the words Nachi or InterNachi.

Once again you try to place the actions of one of your own on the back of someone else. Duck and Dodge, the Nachi way.

And once again John M. you are "confused", this thread was about a Michigan Judges order and opinion that resulted from the failure of your great leader to abide by the agreement he made in July, not the dismissal of the Lawsuit that brought on both that agreement and the Court's enforcement of it. But yes Nick was a great hero in the eyes of the blind, for not having sent an attorney to "Court" on the day the no longer necessary or relevant Lawsuit was dismissed, seeing as it was an action that the Judge said he would initiate in his order, my bet is that no one showed up in Court because it was only a paperwork action.

You guys should celebrate that great victory, just like you did back in July, yet instead of Celebration, Nick and his blind sheep give us Diversion. Again, the Nachi way.

I don't know if I'm supposed to "In All Honesty' mention this every time I criticize Nick and his Club members, but I told him I would demonstrate what a fair minded guy he would like people to believe he is. The other night he offered to reinstate my membership and pay a year of my membership, I politely declined, then he offered me two years after June 08, when my current membership would have expired, again I politely declined. Seeing as he claims every one ever kicked out of his Club has been for violation of His COE, not of course for exercising their free speech, and that I agreed that almost everything I have to say about him and his gang of lackeys is and would be a violation of His COE, what sense would it make to come back, I'm at times a hypocrit, as most of us are, but I'm not that big of one, otherwise I'd have Bushart or Farsetta's job.

John McKenna
11-21-2007, 02:20 PM
Excuse me... you are confused.
BTW.... the 20th has come and gone... this is a non issue... as I stated.

Deleted Account
11-21-2007, 03:53 PM
I have so much fun here it ought to be illegal :D

Lewis Capaul
11-21-2007, 04:03 PM
Excuse me... you are confused.
BTW.... the 20th has come and gone... this is a non issue... as I stated.

John, You might remember comments from some of your members who said almost the same thing about the Motion that NAHI "hadn't" filed after your guys last big celebration and humorous post were made in July.

We'll have to wait and see what comes from Nick's refusal to change things again, my belief is that, as in the matter of all members "HAVING" to change their logo's and marketing, Nick will change things behind the scenes. Any action on the part of the Court will take some time, as will any action against NACHI members who refuse to change their marketing by NAHI, I doubt any of those will make it to court, just like when NACHI or ASHI notifies someone of unauthorized use of their logos, they get changed, without going to court.

I agree, most of this is about nothing, the biggest thing is the hypocrisy and deception by InterNachi used against its own membership, which were told in July they were not effected by any agreement and that there was no time limit for Nachi to change anything, which meant "never".

How's that CMI thing going, can a client now check the status of one of your Masters or the so called requirements to purchase the designation, and be assured that the Master they hired has performed 1000 inspections and not maybe just one or two? We'll probably see aa Court Case sometime in the future over that too.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-21-2007, 08:05 PM
John, You might remember comments from some of your members who said almost the same thing about the Motion that NAHI "hadn't" filed after your guys last big celebration and humorous post were made in July.

We'll have to wait and see what comes from Nick's refusal to change things again, my belief is that, as in the matter of all members "HAVING" to change their logo's and marketing, Nick will change things behind the scenes. Any action on the part of the Court will take some time, as will any action against NACHI members who refuse to change their marketing by NAHI, I doubt any of those will make it to court, just like when NACHI or ASHI notifies someone of unauthorized use of their logos, they get changed, without going to court.

I agree, most of this is about nothing, the biggest thing is the hypocrisy and deception by InterNachi used against its own membership, which were told in July they were not effected by any agreement and that there was no time limit for Nachi to change anything, which meant "never".

How's that CMI thing going, can a client now check the status of one of your Masters or the so called requirements to purchase the designation, and be assured that the Master they hired has performed 1000 inspections and not maybe just one or two? We'll probably see aa Court Case sometime in the future over that too.

And the point that you are trying to make is???

Billy Stephens
11-21-2007, 08:30 PM
Gentlemen,

Before I unsubscribe to this invigorating,useful and productive intercourse of ideas,I leave you with this.

Good Day,

Lewis Capaul
11-21-2007, 09:12 PM
And the point that you are trying to make is???

That is if the Judges Opinion and Order is so insignificant, then why all the effort on the part of Nick and a few of his sheep to hide the decision from your members and to misdirect them in an attempt to change the subject to a dismissed lawsuit? For such an insignificant action there certainly is a lot of chest beating "they can't make me do this" crying going on in the InterNachi ranks, along with "we never replied, responded, or defended", maybe that's true for something, but not in what is being discussed here, an Opinion and order on a motion filed in July.

John McKenna
11-21-2007, 10:44 PM
yawn...

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-22-2007, 08:10 AM
...the Judges Opinion and Order is so insignificant, ...
...to misdirect them in an attempt to change the subject to a dismissed lawsuit? ...
...For such an insignificant action there certainly is a lot of chest beating...



If the Members of NACHI feel the circumstance is insignificant, why are you concerned as a Non-Member?

Stuart Brooks
11-22-2007, 08:26 AM
:D

I *knew* this is where this thread would lead to.

:D

Let's have a hand for the combatants for maintaining a mostly civil air to the thread! I didn't see any foul personal attacks or the use of 4-letter words or remarks about one's heredity combined with 4-letter words. It must have something to do with the maturity level. So far anyway.

Very tame and well behaved in comparison to older flame wars, which I'm sure you can still find ongoing skirmishes on Usenet. :cool:

Brian M Jones
11-22-2007, 12:09 PM
Let's have a hand for the combatants for maintaining a mostly civil air to the thread! I didn't see any foul personal attacks or the use of 4-letter words or remarks about one's heredity combined with 4-letter words. It must have something to do with the maturity level. So far anyway.

Very tame and well behaved in comparison to older flame wars, which I'm sure you can still find ongoing skirmishes on Usenet. :cool:

Only cuz Bushart is busy elsewhere:D

Jerry Peck
11-22-2007, 05:04 PM
It must have something to do with the maturity level. So far anyway.

I'd guess it has more to do with Brian's new rules on being civil to each other 'or else'. :D

John McKenna
11-22-2007, 05:47 PM
The divine part of my nature is showing.

Michael Larson
11-23-2007, 07:22 AM
Lewis,

You should have taken Nick up on his gracious offer to pay your membership dues in I-NACHI for the next 2 years.

But I want to thank you for not doing so.:).

Better to have you over here spewing your bile and and incredibly ridiculous ranting disguised in verbosity.

What is is sad is that you are unable to recognize your own attempts at spinning facts to suit your own agenda.:(

Have a nice day Lewis.;)

Deleted Account
11-23-2007, 07:58 AM
I'd guess it has more to do with Brian's new rules on being civil to each other 'or else'. :D


Don't worry your head... What needs to be said gets said and if not here then elsewhere, even if you can't see it.

Lewis Capaul
11-25-2007, 04:03 PM
If the Members of NACHI feel the circumstance is insignificant, why are you concerned as a Non-Member?

I just like to point out such blatant hypocrisy and deceptions Joe, the original agreement back in July caused a lot of Celebration over there on your message board, many people asked questions back then about how Nachi members would be effected, your leader, Nick told them that they wouldn't be effected at all, and that he didn't really need to make any changes there at all seeing as he had outsmarted the lawyers by not including a time in which to make the changes. Many asked about the Logo, I even asked about the InterNachi Logo that already existed, and which you have now adopted. Back in July your leaders told many "untruths" to your members about the settlement, this Judge cleared things up and the same guy, Nick, who had told members that the agreement would not effect them and that they would not have to change their logo's and marketing, went behind their back and told the Judge they would. Now Nachi Leadership, or rather InterNachi, attempts to hide the fact that they actually did lose in the original agreement, as I said back then, and now they lie once again about offering no defense, reply, etc. to this Motion.

Do you, like Bushart, speak for all members of NACHI/InterNachi Joe, I don't and have never implied that I did, I speak for myself, the trouble once again is that I and others have a document that shows that what we say is true, you on the otherhand have nothing but SPIN.

Lewis Capaul
11-25-2007, 04:20 PM
Lewis,

You should have taken Nick up on his gracious offer to pay your membership dues in I-NACHI for the next 2 years.

But I want to thank you for not doing so.:).

Better to have you over here spewing your bile and and incredibly ridiculous ranting disguised in verbosity.

What is is sad is that you are unable to recognize your own attempts at spinning facts to suit your own agenda.:(

Have a nice day Lewis.;)

Michael, Why would I have even considered taking Nick up on his offer, it wouldn't change my opinion of his "Club" and it wouldn't stop my criticism with his lack of standards and constant attempts to deceive his members, other inspectors, and most importantly Clients.

I worked pretty hard to get kicked "Off the Island", my statements since have not been any different in regards to your "Club" than they were when I was a member. I agreed I violated Nick's Rules, that Bushart says he enforces on a Case by Case basis, wouldn't I still be violating Nick's Rules if I accepted his offer?

Like I told Nick, the only people on his message board that have Free Speech are the non-members who are not restricted by his COE, that Bushart uses in an attempt, successful most the time, to intimidate those who disagree with him. I suppose I could get enough of your little Red Boxes, another form of censorship, to be banned from your board, but then, as I told Nick, I could come back as Harry Hemplestern, Harvey's long lost brother.

No thanks, this time when State Licensing comes up I can use the Mickey Mouse requirements for joining your club and things like your "Masters" designations for sale in my discussion with the legislators involved, last year I was restricted by your COE, not any more.

Right off hand I can't think of any other organization that works so hard to keep standards so low as InterNachi does, can you?

Michael Larson
11-25-2007, 04:47 PM
Lewis, Try and find some happiness in life that doesn't involve bashing an org you are no longer a part of. You keep stating that your former org works at keeping the bar low but again that is only half truth and spin to your liking.

Most who stay are happy with the benefits and a lot of great inspectors are on board to help members.

P.S.
Some of us even like the free wheeling open message board. :)

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-25-2007, 05:49 PM
I just like to point out such blatant hypocrisy and deceptions Joe, the original agreement back in July caused a lot of Celebration over there on your message board, many people asked questions back then about how Nachi members would be effected, your leader, Nick told them that they wouldn't be effected at all, and that he didn't really need to make any changes there at all seeing as he had outsmarted the lawyers by not including a time in which to make the changes. Many asked about the Logo, I even asked about the InterNachi Logo that already existed, and which you have now adopted. Back in July your leaders told many "untruths" to your members about the settlement, this Judge cleared things up and the same guy, Nick, who had told members that the agreement would not effect them and that they would not have to change their logo's and marketing, went behind their back and told the Judge they would. Now Nachi Leadership, or rather InterNachi, attempts to hide the fact that they actually did lose in the original agreement, as I said back then, and now they lie once again about offering no defense, reply, etc. to this Motion.

Do you, like Bushart, speak for all members of NACHI/InterNachi Joe, I don't and have never implied that I did, I speak for myself, the trouble once again is that I and others have a document that shows that what we say is true, you on the otherhand have nothing but SPIN.

You have no idea about my involvement with NACHI activities.

I do not care about what information you may think you have.

If the Members of NACHI feel the circumstance is insignificant, why are you concerned as a Non-Member?

Deleted Account
11-25-2007, 07:11 PM
I just like to point out such blatant hypocrisy and deceptions, horseshit, cowshit, bullshit, blah, blah, blah SPIN.



Picture this, its midnight at the movies and the Rocky Horror Picture Show (http://www.rockyhorror.com/) is on the silver screen and here is Lewis screaming Fire! Fire! Fire! and everyone turns around shoots him the bird and says in unison... I ain't friggin' leaving till they sing the NACHI Time Warp (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zdu7xoHU9DA).

Here is the bottom line Dweasel, I'll believe your scatological dissertation when a disgruntled ex-NACHI member from Washington and some unshaven judge from bumscrew Egypt can come to Florida and force someone like me to remove the NACHI logos from my truck. Till then your just another one of those raving lunatics (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8tZIaapf2gU&feature=related) who could not make it at NACHI.


Remember... It's just a jump to the left!

Lewis Capaul
11-26-2007, 11:44 AM
Picture this, its midnight at the movies and the Rocky Horror Picture Show (http://www.rockyhorror.com/) is on the silver screen and here is Lewis screaming Fire! Fire! Fire! and everyone turns around shoots him the bird and says in unison... I ain't friggin' leaving till they sing the NACHI Time Warp (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zdu7xoHU9DA).

Here is the bottom line Dweasel, I'll believe your scatological dissertation when a disgruntled ex-NACHI member from Washington and some unshaven judge from bumscrew Egypt can come to Florida and force someone like me to remove the NACHI logos from my truck. Till then your just another one of those raving lunatics (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8tZIaapf2gU&feature=related) who could not make it at NACHI.


Remember... It's just a jump to the left!

Joe, Maybe you should read this Judges Opinion and Order a little more closely, especially the part where Nick states that ALL members "will be required" to change their logos.

On September 17,2007, Defendant filed a Reply to Plaintiffs Response arguing that: (1)
changing all references from "NACHI" to "INTERNACHI" requires a substantial and timeconsuming
effort; (2) Defendant's members will be required to switch to the "INTERNACHI"
name once the new INTERNACHI.org site is launched

Wouldn't a member's failure to change their logo, as Nick has stated, be considered a violation of your COE?

Sometimes Joe there is a "Fire" in a theater, and the only ones left inside to burn are the sheep who huddle in a corner listening to someone tell them that they will be safe, he can "Certify" that, for a small fee of course.

Lewis Capaul
11-26-2007, 12:23 PM
Lewis, Try and find some happiness in life that doesn't involve bashing an org you are no longer a part of. You keep stating that your former org works at keeping the bar low but again that is only half truth and spin to your liking.

Most who stay are happy with the benefits and a lot of great inspectors are on board to help members.

P.S.
Some of us even like the free wheeling open message board. :)

Michael, I actually agree with you about some things, there are a lot of very qualified and competent inspectors in your organization, and your message board is often very entertaining. As far as my opinion of your Association and its leadership, show me where I have been anymore critical than I was when I was a member.

Why is it that you Nachi guys only cry about "Bashing" when the criticism is directed at you instead of you "bashing" other Associations.? As far as those who stay, I imagine there are many different reasons, qualifying for E&O Insurance as a member of a "national" association, the benefit of access to answers to inspection questions, a love affair with "certifications" that can be purchased instead of earned, and the "flock mentality" of feeling safer as a member of the flock.

Is it "bashing" to point out that what Nick said in July is the opposite of what he said in September? Is it "bashing" to point out that "members" who say they are not required to obey the Judges order are going against what Nick has said and leaving themselves open for potential legal problems in the future?

Michael Larson
11-26-2007, 01:07 PM
As was stated earlier, as a non-member why should you care?

I wish you well Lewis. Have a nice day.:)

Scott Patterson
11-26-2007, 01:48 PM
As was stated earlier, as a non-member why should you care?

I wish you well Lewis. Have a nice day.:)

My guess is the way he was treated and his membership revoked. Who knows, but this thread is getting tiresome. Kind of sorry I started it.

Michael Larson
11-26-2007, 01:52 PM
My guess is the way he was treated and his membership revoked. Who knows, but this thread is getting tiresome. Kind of sorry I started it.Scott,
Lewis and I use to go round and round when he was member.
It wasn't worth it there and I'm sorry to say it's not here either.
I'm out of this thread.

Deleted Account
11-26-2007, 01:59 PM
Joe, Maybe you should read this Judges


I personally could give a rats-ass what the judge in Missouri has to say in this matter; his decrees are completely unenforceable here in Florida.




Wouldn't a member's failure to change their logo, as Nick has stated, be considered a violation of your COE?


Again I ask, what friggin' business is it of yours if I choose to violate the NACHI COE, WTF are you gonna do turn me in, or maybe show up at my office with a judge to rip the NACHI logos off my inspection vehicle? :D

Please explain what possible recourse do you have when I say "screw you Lewis I ain't never gonna comply with whatever gets decided in Missouri"` Now... Just what are you gonna do, write another thousand word post, who cares? :D

Dom D'Agostino
11-26-2007, 02:14 PM
Who knows, but this thread is getting tiresome. Kind of sorry I started it.


Yes, Please, end it now....enough is enough.:mad:

Lewis Capaul
11-26-2007, 02:25 PM
I personally could give a rats-ass what the judge in Missouri has to say in this matter; his decrees are completely unenforceable here in Florida.





Again I ask, what friggin' business is it of yours if I choose to violate the NACHI COE, WTF are you gonna do turn me in, or maybe show up at my office with a judge to rip the NACHI logos off my inspection vehicle? :D

Please explain what possible recourse do you have when I say "screw you Lewis I ain't never gonna comply with whatever gets decided in Missouri"` Now... Just what are you gonna do, write another thousand word post, who cares? :D

I really like it when you begin to foam at the mouth Joe, when what little brain process you have begins to shutdown...what has any Judge in Missouri done to you lately Joe, we were discussing Michigan and your leaders statement I believe. It's a sad, sad day Joe, but your NACHI Logo no longer has an Association linked to it.

Pound your chest a little harder Joe, you're arguing against something your leader said, not me.

Deleted Account
11-26-2007, 02:26 PM
Yes, Please, end it now....enough is enough.:mad:


Sorry, complete thread deletion is no longer possible. Yes, you can delete your post, but that no longer deletes the entire thread.

Lewis Capaul
11-26-2007, 02:26 PM
As was stated earlier, as a non-member why should you care?

I wish you well Lewis. Have a nice day.:)

Pretty simple Michael, as the so called largest Home Inspection in the World, Nick and InterNachi's policies and worthless Certifications effect the image of the Home Inspection Industry as a whole, mostly for the worse.

Deleted Account
11-26-2007, 02:40 PM
Michigan, Missouri means the same friggin thing, really who cares. :D

What I enjoy, what I revel in, what really does it for me... Is when you spend yourself meticulously attempting to get your message across making sure to cross your "t"'s & dot your "i"'s and no one acknowledges your effort, such a powerless washed-up loser.

Remember this money talks, you should put some where your mouth is.

Jerry Peck
11-26-2007, 03:16 PM
Remember this money talks, you should put some where your mouth is.

Jeez Joe B., now you've really gone and done it ... remember that thread - THOSE THREADS ... AND POSTS ... about *YOU* betting a certain someone money about something, and then about which you have failed to put where your mouth is?

Remember?

Please, OH PLEASE! Don't get that one going again. :( :D :p

Deleted Account
11-26-2007, 03:40 PM
Remember?





Of course I remember oh feeble minded one... I have no doubt that a guy like that won't make it in this profession, my bet stands. :)

David Nice
11-26-2007, 05:08 PM
Sometimes Joe there is a "Fire" in a theater, and the only ones left inside to burn are the sheep who huddle in a corner listening to someone tell them that they will be safe, he can "Certify" that, for a small fee of course.

And you (smelling of gasoline) should be warning the "sheep"?

Lewis Capaul
11-26-2007, 05:34 PM
Michigan, Missouri means the same friggin thing, really who cares. :D

What I enjoy, what I revel in, what really does it for me... Is when you spend yourself meticulously attempting to get your message across making sure to cross your "t"'s & dot your "i"'s and no one acknowledges your effort, such a powerless washed-up loser.

Remember this money talks, you should put some where your mouth is.

The only money that would need to be involved Joe is any that NAHI would like to spend enforcing the removal of Logo's covered by this Judges order and the statement of your leader. Your refusal to remove your NACHI logo's just helps to prove my point, that many self appointed spokesmen for your Association, just like their leader, have little regard for the Law or even your own rules. You make it easy for critics of your club Joe, if you want to continue flying the flag of a defunct organization go right ahead. I'm counting on you to spend some of your money on Attorneys if and when NAHI's lawyers come calling, you and the other macho NACHI members who refuse, or say you do, to obey Nick's statement remind me of an inspector here in
Washington that thought the legal system did not apply and who took the advice of the legal experts there at Nachi.

Was Nick lying in his reply to the Judge Joe?

Deleted Account
11-26-2007, 06:14 PM
Was Nick lying in his reply to the Judge Joe?


You must have really mistaken me for someone who gives a flying fart about the state of NAHI, Nick & NACHI. My posts here are specifically to show just how powerless you are to act on any of your beliefs.

Actually, what I want, what I really need to get my jollies off, is for a schmuck like you to piss away his waking hours plotting & scheming how to get the NACHI logos removed from history, what a joke you are.

Here is my promise to you... The only way logos on my personal privately owned vehicle will ever be removed will be through the shedding of blood, there are some things still worth dying for. Mark my word... No one, and I mean NO ONE will dictate to me what logos I can fly on my truck, send your army I dare you!

BTW When you do send my info over to the NAHI lawyers make sure to spell my name right, there is only one FU in Burkeson. :D

Lewis Capaul
11-27-2007, 08:50 AM
You must have really mistaken me for someone who gives a flying fart about the state of NAHI, Nick & NACHI. My posts here are specifically to show just how powerless you are to act on any of your beliefs.

Actually, what I want, what I really need to get my jollies off, is for a schmuck like you to piss away his waking hours plotting & scheming how to get the NACHI logos removed from history, what a joke you are.

Here is my promise to you... The only way logos on my personal privately owned vehicle will ever be removed will be through the shedding of blood, there are some things still worth dying for. Mark my word... No one, and I mean NO ONE will dictate to me what logos I can fly on my truck, send your army I dare you!

BTW When you do send my info over to the NAHI lawyers make sure to spell my name right, there is only one FU in Burkeson. :D

Once again Joe, the mandatory change of logo comes from Nick, who owns both the old and the new one, he dictates their use.

What gets my 'JOLLIES OFF" Joe, is getting people like you to react like a spoiled 10 year old, chest thumping, flag waving, threats of bloodshed, all over a logo that has no link to any organization, promise that you will truly fight to the death over it Joe.

I admit I have no "power" over changing Nachi logos, and I don't really care if anyone does. Any "power" I do have is to make macho guys like you cry loudly and often on public message boards, to those who are really interested in enforcing the change, the loudest protesters make the best and easiest examples.

Making you react also demonstrates the hypocrisy and lack of leadership in Nick's Club, he made a statement to a U.S. Court that requires members to change, yet, even though the subject of "change" has been discussed on his message board, Nick has yet to deny his statement or inform his members of the required change, although he did claim that he had this planned all along.

If I were NAHI, I might not even waste my money on attorneys going after individual members, I would go after InterNachi again for not enforcing the change, which is InterNachi's responsibility. Permitting members to use a defunct logo is also in violation of Nick's COE, and InterNachi leaders like Farsetta have been known to make threats of legal action against inspectors who misuse or misrepresent a logo copywrited by Nachi/InterNachi.

So cause Nick as much trouble as you can Joe, that's my goal anyway.

By the way, in the one "FU" found in Burkeson, I know what the "F" stands for, I take it from yours arguments and threats here that the "U" stands for "UP".

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-27-2007, 09:25 AM
Been using the NACHI logo long before I even knew NAHI existed. There was no concern on the part of any Association about the growth of NACHI. People honestly believed NACHI could not Survive and would Fade Away as a memory.

While others rested, NACHI took advantage of the shortcomings of Others and developed as a Leader in delivering the Tools (Technical and Marketing) that Inspectors were searching for.

Like it or not, Everyone is concerned about NACHI.

They should be as the Memory of the alternative Affiliations slowly drifts away.......................

Lewis Capaul
11-27-2007, 10:08 AM
Now it's really getting to be funny......

http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum/uploads/hausdok/NACHILawyersWithdraw.pdf

Does anyone really expect Nick to pay NAHI's legal costs when he won't even pay his own?

Rick Bunzel
11-27-2007, 03:24 PM
I will stick with my prediction that NAHI may end up going after Inacho's assets to pay for legal costs. However having been to the international headquarters in Nederland, I am not sure it worth it. Thats probably just what the founder wants us to think. The trick will be to find the accounts in the Caymans......

Just gotta love the intrigue,

//Rick

Lewis Capaul
11-28-2007, 12:34 PM
You posted:
"....Inspectors are sold meaningless certifications that have no true requirements, doesn't that reflect on every other Certification or designation in the industry?"

If you truly examine the various applications, you will find that there really is no difference between any of the Organizations. All require an affidavit (signed / notarized) attesting to completion of requirements.

Welcome Homebuyers and Sellers | ASHI, American Society of Home Inspectors (http://www.ashi.org/inspectors/join/joininfo.asp)

How do I prove I have performed 250 fee paid inspections?
After passing the verification process you will be mailed a personalized affidavit of completion that you will need to get signed, dated and notarized attesting to 250+ inspections

http://www.nahi.org/NAHI-Membership-App-07.pdf

Notarized Statement
I, the undersigned applicant, hereby declare that the information contained in this application is true and that I will use most recent edition of the NAHI Standards of Practice and Code of Ethics as a guideline to perform home inspections. I further agree to hold the National Association of Home Inspectors harmless in the event of a claim or proceeding arising out of the performance of service for customers referred to me by the NAHI's referral service. I authorize NAHI to investigate and confirm the information declared by me in this application.

http://www.nachi.org/documents/app_66.pdf

I have participated in or performed more than 100 home inspections

Sign Below
X______________________________________________

Thanks for pointing that out...


One of the main differences Joe, as you already know, is that Associations like ASHI require applicants to take a proctored exam where their identity is checked by photo I.D., not some login name created by the applicant for an online test that anyone could take for, or assist the applicant with.

Your wonder CMI is another example, how many of its 200 or so members signed up back when the requirement was 100 hrs of HI "education" and $75 or $175, or how many signed up and became Masters when the requirements were increased to 150 hours. If I were to hire one of your Certified Masters and I checked the CMI Website to find what requirements they had to meet to become Masters wouldn't I find this?

The Master Inspector Certification Board, Inc. is a non-profit 501(c)(6), tax-exempt organization dedicated to promoting excellence in the inspection industry. The Board holds the registered Trademark Certified Master Inspector® (CMI), the inspection industry’s top professional designation, and awards it qualifying inspectors who have demonstrated a high level of competency by:

1.
Completing 1,000 fee-paid inspections or hours of inspection-related continuing education (combined) in their lifetime.

Even though we know that all Masters do not meet those requirements and that some may have purchased that "Certification" without ever having performed an inspection, me I call that fraud, don't give me your crap about all ASHI Inspectors haven't taken the NHIE, I've said for years that I believe even members who have been there for many years should be required to do so.

Or how about this, Nick's encouragement a membership sales promotion about hiding the lack of experience:

".....Furthermore, since no law requires a public disclosure of an inspector's experience (or lack of it), InterNACHI does not require it either. If you are only a new working member you need not alarm your clients. If you are a full member there is nothing preventing you from touting it. You must be one or the other though. InterNACHI does not "brand" new inspectors with derogatory terms such as "Associate" or "Candidate" because InterNACHI has entrance requirements. Many agents blacklist associates and candidates. If you are a member you may call yourself a "Certified Member" or a "Certified Home Inspector."..........

True, but just another example of InterNachi's policy of deception.

Another is the story that Nick and many of his chapter presidents try to sell to potential members, Realtors, and clients, that Nachi is the only association that requires members to meet requirements before they join, again true, but deceptive, after taking an online exam , or having someone else take for you, a New Nachi Member has full rights to display and advertise his "Certification", yet in Associations like ASHI you sign an agreement that includes:

That I understand that I cannot use the ASHI logo until I have completed two required exams, completed a minimum of 50 inspections and
successfully completed verification

And that's just to use the Candidate or associate logo. Nick's statement and InterNachi policy makes an effective sales pitch to wannabe Home Inspectors who want to hide their inexperience, but as a Home buyer, an informed Home buyer who knew how HI Certifications were earned, who would get the most business based solely on their logo, an inspector displaying his NACHI Logo or an inspector displaying his ASHI logo. You have many good and very qualified Inspectors in your association, I've always considered you to be one, but that doesn't hide the fact that many don't have any experience in inspection or construction at all, and may not have even taken the online exam themselves.

Even all that though doesn't explain why Nachi won't pay its attorneys, of course the first step would probably have to be to get Nick to admit to his members that there ever was any legal action taken that he replied, responded, or offered a defense to. He denies that any case exists, and that these attorneys did not represent "HIM", he doesn't mention Nachi, other than he is not the owner.

What I find really amazing is that so many of his members go along with his denials even when documents are posted in the same thread where he denies their existence. I can understand those who don't like my, and others, interpretation of those documents, but to have them right in front of your eyes and to still not question Nick's denials is truly amazing. Are people in your association really so afraid to oppose Nick's Pack?

An example, a Nachi member, that's what it still says on your message board, yesterday posted the latest document about failing to pay Nachi attorneys, he just posted it, called it an interesting legal document, and made no comment about its meaning. The Pack then descended on him, not arguing about the document, but about the lack of an InterNachi logo on his website, along with quotes from your COE and denials from Nick. I wouldn't be surprised to find you have lost another member or two.

Deleted Account
11-28-2007, 01:37 PM
I will stick with my prediction that NAHI may end up going after Inacho's assets to pay for legal costs.


Rick,

Maybe you are a better spokesman for NAHI (spit) then Lewis, but I say NAHI (spit) ain't got the balls to go after one home inspector in Florida that refuses to refrain from using the NACHI logo. My guess is NAHI's (spit) newest public mouthpiece Lewis has his head firmly stuck up his butt and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-28-2007, 02:07 PM
One of the main differences Joe, as you already know, is that Associations like ASHI require applicants to take a proctored exam ....

That is the only difference. Pretty amazing.

No Experience. No Training. No Insurance...Just an Affidavit and a contribution to the Organizations Exam funds.

So what do you suggest makes NACHI less than Certified?

Lewis Capaul
11-28-2007, 03:02 PM
That is the only difference. Pretty amazing.

No Experience. No Training. No Insurance...Just an Affidavit and a contribution to the Organizations Exam funds.

So what do you suggest makes NACHI less than Certified?

No affidavit is even required at NACHI Joe, seeing as new members have the same rights to the logo as a full member, why would they bother with an affidavit, all that is required is an online exam, and supposedly the submission of 4 mock inspections. Remember operation Deadwood earlier this year, the attempt to get rid of all those who were not current on their membership dues? Why was there such resistance back then to including getting rid of all members who had not met the continuing and changing membership requirements? Was Nick afraid that he's lose most of his members. That was one of the most entertaining times at Nachi, those of us who brought it up were amazed at the absolute silence from the general membership, I wonder why.

Nachi requirements probably meet the definition of Certified, but the designation has no value as no experience, even by affidavit is required and there is no proof that the person certified even took the test, along with the failure of the Association to enforce the rest of its membership requirements. Take a test, pay $289 and you're as qualified as someone with hundreds of inspections, if that makes you happy, that's good, myself I will continue to criticize those policies and to explain them to interested parties in my area.

Speaking of logo's Joe, what does this one mean. Nick, John, Joe F., and others all say that NACHI an CMI aren't connected in any way, does this mean they're wrong?

Lewis Capaul
11-28-2007, 03:19 PM
Rick,

Maybe you are a better spokesman for NAHI (spit) then Lewis, but I say NAHI (spit) ain't got the balls to go after one home inspector in Florida that refuses to refrain from using the NACHI logo. My guess is NAHI's (spit) newest public mouthpiece Lewis has his head firmly stuck up his butt and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Joe, Joe, trying to spin things again. I told you how I would go after you if I were NAHI and wanted to make an example of an individual NACHI member, I also told you that if I was NAHI I'd go after NICK/INTERNACHI who would end up paying my legal costs, again, to force NICK/INTERNACHI into complying with the Judges Order and enforcing his statement about members changing, it's Nicks responsibility to see that the Order is complied with. If you refuse him then he would likely still be liable for your use of the logo unless he or InterNachi took you to court for using a logo they own without permission.

Whether NAHI has the balls to do anything is up to them, if they do then my bet is that Nick will be the one telling you to change.

A question Joe, if your logos are worth fighting to the death over, what was HI Licensing in Florida worth, or are you going to refuse to become licensed and fight them to the death over that?

Deleted Account
11-28-2007, 03:22 PM
myself I will continue to criticize those policies and to explain them to interested parties in my area.


Talk about your small world, here is a photo someone took of you publicly discussing NACHI. Not for nothing big fella but, it looks to me like you are struggling to reach your intended audience.

Rick Bunzel
11-28-2007, 06:08 PM
JoeB,

Why go after the back end of the snake when you can go for the head? Anyone who has gone after a cottonmouth knows that....

The Court will enforce the terms of the Judges decision. If NAHI has to pursue collection the Boulder County Sheriff will do the knocking for us.

//Rick

Deleted Account
11-28-2007, 06:21 PM
If NAHI has to pursue collection the Boulder County Sheriff will do the knocking for us.



Of what possible interest could this veiled threat be to me living here in the Greater Tampa Bay area?

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-28-2007, 06:30 PM
Speaking of logo's Joe, what does this one mean. Nick, John, Joe F., and others all say that NACHI an CMI aren't connected in any way, does this mean they're wrong?



Logo has been around and in use for quite some time but since you are not a Member, what is your concern?

Scott Patterson
11-28-2007, 06:36 PM
Folks, does anyone really care about who is going to enforce what? My word, you would think that this is about the saving of the polar ice cap and baby seals!

This has to do with one person and his organization that he is head of, organization as we knew as NACHI has now been replaced by InterNachi. Not a big deal, but if folks still want to advertise the old organization let them. It is no skin off you back for them to do so. Sooner or later it will all be a moot point.

Lewis Capaul
11-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Logo has been around and in use for quite some time but since you are not a Member, what is your concern?

Once again I'm fascinated by Nachi lies, only the other day Nick told everyone, again, that CMI had nothing to do with Nachi/InterNachi, that they are completely separate entities. I was even told that it was open to all inspectors who had $375. It seems the Nachi elite once again have different rules and that CMI is really another tier in InterNachi membership, which Nick also denies. A "NACHI CERTIFIED INSPECTOR", interesting. Not as interesting as Nick flip flopping or not paying his attorneys, but still interesting.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-28-2007, 06:53 PM
Once again I'm fascinated by Nachi lies, only the other day Nick told everyone, again, that CMI had nothing to do with Nachi/InterNachi, that they are completely separate entities.


Where is the lie that you suggest?
CMI has nothing to do with NACHI.
CertifiedMasterInspector.org is a separate entity unrelated to NACHI.



I was even told that it was open to all inspectors who had $375. It seems the Nachi elite once again have different rules and that CMI is really another tier in InterNachi membership, which Nick also denies.


CMI is not another tier of Membership in NACHI.
CMI is unrelated and separate from the NACHI Organization.
You seem to be having difficulty understanding. Since you are not a Member, what is your concern?

Rick Bunzel
11-28-2007, 06:54 PM
Speaking of interesting - I noticed Nick has CMI after his name. I didn't think that he was a home inspector.... Probably dreamed doing 1,000 inspection or was it 1,000 radon inspections???? Oh well never mind a inspection is an inspection no matter what kind, right?

//Rick

Deleted Account
11-28-2007, 07:04 PM
Scott,

Obviously Lewis does. Thing is that today Lewis is a man without a logo, that cold hard reality is most likely what is driving his mania and feeding his fetish. His ravenous need to be a part of an association has forced him to go out on a limb attacking NACHI in a valiant attempt to court the favors of NAHI and reestablish himself in another association, once again securing a logo for his use.

It is all very textbook Psychology 101 stuff. ;)

Joe.

Lewis Capaul
11-28-2007, 07:06 PM
Folks, does anyone really care about who is going to enforce what? My word, you would think that this is about the saving of the polar ice cap and baby seals!

This has to do is with one person and his organization that he is head of. The organization as we knew it, NACHI has now been replaced by InterNachi. Not a big deal, but if folks still want to advertise the old organization let them. It is no skin off you back for them to do so. Sooner or later it will all be a moot point.

We started out discussing a legal action against Nachi and how things said by Nachi in July was so much different than what was said in September, especially in regard to whether or not all members were effected, Nick, in plain old language stated that they were.

A question was made on how the required change could be enforced in Florida, I gave an explanation of a couple of ways, stating just about what Rick just said, go for the Head, the Head owns the Logos and has the authority to order any changes in the use of its logo. Pretty simple stuff until it got humorous with threats of "fights to the death", that's too funny to ignore and old Joe is too much fun to wind up.

It doesn't matter which logo they use, neither has any credibility when the requirements are explained to clients or other parties, and either way Nick and his supporters lose, keep the logo after the great one said they would change, or change as was explained in the Order and Opinion. If Nahi has the balls then poor old Joe will end up changing, if not then he will demonstrate that Internachi is an association with no one at the helm. I like both options.

Me, I'm easily entertained, and find success in making Joe foam at the mouth, this has been especially enjoyable because he has now claimed, on his clubs message board, to have sent all my posts regarding this issue to the Attorney General in Michigan and I guess, D.C....Like the Larry the Cable Guy says "I don't care who you are, that's funny", and it beats shoveling snow.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-28-2007, 07:13 PM
Speaking of interesting - I noticed Nick has CMI after his name. I didn't think that he was a home inspector.... Probably dreamed doing 1,000 inspection or was it 1,000 radon inspections???? Oh well never mind a inspection is an inspection no matter what kind, right?

//Rick

Nick G. was a Home Inspector for many years. The Company that he was with PEACH Inspections - Certified Home Inspections - Home Page (http://www.s135577378.onlinehome.us/) is still operating today.

Rick Bunzel
11-28-2007, 07:41 PM
Interesting Peach Website.

No Inacho or nacho logos found. Maybe they are trying to distance themselves..............

//Rick

Deleted Account
11-28-2007, 07:51 PM
Interesting Peach Website.



I believe that Nick's brother at one time was an ASHI member, I know his partner Dan (http://www.s135577378.onlinehome.us/5.html) is for sure.

Joseph Michalski
11-29-2007, 01:15 PM
Boy, talk about thread drift.....

I could care less about logos, but when you have made an agreement to pay a debt (as aserted in the legal document where the NACHI lawyer is withdrawing from the case for non-payment) it is implicit that you accept that you rightfully incurred the debt, and are obligated to pay it.

Failure to do so reflects poorly upon all those associated. I know too many Internachi members that I respect to believe that they are happy with this development or swallowing a line of crap about the non-payment. If I was still a member, I would be pissed.

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 01:53 PM
Boy, talk about thread drift.....

I could care less about logos, but when you have made an agreement to pay a debt (as aserted in the legal document where the NACHI lawyer is withdrawing from the case for non-payment) it is implicit that you accept that you rightfully incurred the debt, and are obligated to pay it.

Failure to do so reflects poorly upon all those associated. I know too many Internachi members that I respect to believe that they are happy with this development or swallowing a line of crap about the non-payment. If I was still a member, I would be pissed.

An Agreement is an Agreement Joe, whether it's over payment for services, or changes in logos and names, failure to abide by either or both just demonstrates what's wrong over there in Nick's World.

The defense from Nick has been that there is no Motion and that he or Nachi (No One he says) made any defense, reply or response to anything, that these attorneys never worked for him or Nachi, that the case was taken outside of the venue, and that he could not have responded to a motion filed on Nov. 8, I believe, back in September, he totally ignores the motion filed in July which was acted upon on Nov 13 by this Judge in Michigan.

Maybe there's more fun coming down the line, InterNachi, the land of Denial.

All the good guys there in InterNachi are probably pissed, but they are very quiet, anything members say that the pack may disagree with is not allowed there any more, that's why it's fun to be a nonmember. Look at what happened to Nolan there the other day, he posted a public document about nonpayment that should have been of interest to all members, made no comment, remained completely neutral and a was attacked by the pack, because of his lack of NACHI Logo, none of the faithful wanted to discuss the document.

It finally came to me last night why I enjoy winding Nick and the boys up so much, I used to argue religion a lot, I won't go there on this board, but it came to me while making a post on the InterNachi message board, that I was arguing "religion", attack or argue with Nick, you are attacking their god, attack Nachi policies, you're attacking their bible, that must be why they get so mad.

Michael Larson
11-29-2007, 02:10 PM
Lewis, Can you spell delusional?

Scott Patterson
11-29-2007, 02:34 PM
Look at what happened to Nolan there the other day, he posted a public document about nonpayment that should have been of interest to all members, made no comment, remained completely neutral and a was attacked by the pack, because of his lack of NACHI Logo, none of the faithful wanted to discuss the document.


You have go to be kidding me! I know and have even had dinner with Nolan Kienitz he is a good guy and about as impartial to the various association BS as one can get. Sorry to hear that they are beating up on their own. Nolan is an asset to that association and as far as that goes to any association and he would be missed if he left, and I bet that the ones berating him are a liability and would not be missed.

Michael Larson
11-29-2007, 02:43 PM
You have go to be kidding me! I know and have even had dinner with Nolan Kienitz he is a good guy and about as impartial to the various association BS as one can get.Scott, that may well be the case. I hope so. I think the fact that Nolan chose to post the document in the public area of the NACHI forum caused some of the resulting conflagration. Had he posted it in the members only area I think a much more useful and interesting debate would have occurred. Members are not afraid to express there opinions in all matters NACHI but many think it is better to leave it in the members area. IMHO

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 03:42 PM
Scott, that may well be the case. I hope so. I think the fact that Nolan chose to post the document in the public area of the NACHI forum caused some of the resulting conflagration. Had he posted it in the members only area I think a much more useful and interesting debate would have occurred. Members are not afraid to express there opinions in all matters NACHI but many think it is better to leave it in the members area. IMHO

Your Pack Michael did not attack him about the document or even mention it, the very first post that replied to him was about his not having a Nachi logo on his website, no mention of the document or its meaning.
Interesting legal document ... - InterNACHI Message Board (http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22827)

The document had already been posted and argued on your message board and others hours before the attack on Nolan began. Someone questioned why he joined Nachi if he was already an ASHI member. my bet would be that he received a freebie from Nick, and that you have lost a very accomplished and knowledgeable member, keep up the good work.

This thread though is still my favorite over there in the Land of Denial:


Lewis Capaul Acting As An Agent For NAHI? - InterNACHI Message Board (http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22832)

Nachi paranoia, what a joke.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-29-2007, 03:44 PM
.....If I was still a member, I would be pissed.


But you are not. So why do you care?

Michael Larson
11-29-2007, 03:50 PM
Your Pack Michael I do not belong to any pack ans reserve my right to disagree with my fellow members just as I often did with you when you were a fellow member.

As to Nolan's non use of the NACHI logo, it is supposed to be given equal prominence to other associations logos in any marketing materials when it is used.:)

Deleted Account
11-29-2007, 03:51 PM
This thread though is still my favorite over there (http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22832)...


Understandable, 81% of the members who once supported you have now categorized you as a "lonely broken ex-NACHI member who should be pitied".

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 03:52 PM
But you are not. So why do you care?

You need a new question Joe, there are getting to be an awfully lot of ex-members you have to ask that question too, you would be better off trying to dazzle your newbies who don't know any better.

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 04:04 PM
Understandable, 81% of the members who once supported you have now categorized you as a "lonely broken ex-NACHI member who should be pitied".

Wow Joe, that must have meant that at one time I had 100% approval for my opinions over there, pretty amazing numbers for someone who was supposedly kicked out for voicing those same opinions, and a very good demonstration of your lack of intelligence and your pitiful attempt at polling.

Seeing as all the choices you offered in your poll could have been taken as negative, I figure I've reached my goal of 100% disapproval by the clowns you call peers, which is your little pack of Nick worshippers.

I do not know the answer to this question as I have no legal training, but regardless I have spent all morning copying his rants & ravings from both boards and have sent them off to the both the Michigan and Federal Attorney Generals for them to review. So, what is your opinion? J. Burkeson

Priceless Joe!

Joseph Michalski
11-29-2007, 04:10 PM
Lewis, I agree about the direction that the discourse on the other board took. Disappointing (but hardly surprising) would be a mild description of my reaction to the attack of Nolan for his post. I wouldn't know Nolan if I tripped over him, but his post was impartial and simply a link for others to make of what they would.


Joe H., "care" may be a strong word for my reaction. I stated an opinion, as is commonly done on boards such as this (except where members of certain organizations may fear posting critical remarks, lest they be suddenly deemed "seditious.")

I am also not a Republican, but I follow with interest what happens within their party and primary as it has a bearing on things as a whole. In this case, what internal politics occur at other orgs are not of specific concern to me, but as they may impact people I know and care about, I follow them and develop opinions. You will note I did not say I am pissed, I said I would be.

Michael Larson
11-29-2007, 04:11 PM
Wow Joe, that must have meant that at one time I had 100% approval for my opinions over there, pretty amazing numbers for someone who was supposedly kicked out for voicing those same opinions,....
Is that what you really believe Lewis, that your were kicked out for just sharing your opinions? Get real.:(

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 04:28 PM
I do not belong to any pack ans reserve my right to disagree with my fellow members just as I often did with you when you were a fellow member.

But Mike, every time the pack feeds there you are howling right along with the rest. Why is that? Disagreements great Mike, you used to disagree, but now you're one of the first to go into the personal attack mode without even bothering to say what you disagree with.

Take Nolan's thread for instance, he apologized for having offended anyone, here's your response:


Quote:
Originally Posted by nkienitz
My apologies then to those of you who have taken offense.


So your apologizing to the offended and not for what you did eh?
Sounds like a politician when he gets caught with his pants around his ankles

Sounds to me like someone who believes in censorship Mike, freedom of speech only for those who agree with you right Mike?

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 04:38 PM
Is that what you really believe Lewis, that your were kicked out for just sharing your opinions? Get real.:(

As I explained to your leader Mike I was kicked out of his club for voicing my opinions because those opinions violated his COE, do you deny that?

As I also explained to Nick, members don't have Freedom of speech on his board, they are bounded by the COE as to what they can say, read it very carefully Mike, any disagreement is against the COE if you want to get technical. Only Non-Members have freedom of speech there, I even thanked him for that, when I turned down his second offer to reinstate me and pay my dues for two years, my opinion of your club got me kicked out, that opinion has not changed. I argue the same thing today as I did 5 months ago.

Michael Larson
11-29-2007, 04:48 PM
But Mike, every time the pack feeds there you are howling right along with the rest. Why is that? Disagreements great Mike, you used to disagree, but now you're one of the first to go into the personal attack mode without even bothering to say what you disagree with.

Take Nolan's thread for instance, he apologized for having offended anyone, here's your response:


Quote:
Originally Posted by nkienitz
My apologies then to those of you who have taken offense.


So your apologizing to the offended and not for what you did eh?
Sounds like a politician when he gets caught with his pants around his ankles

Sounds to me like someone who believes in censorship Mike, freedom of speech only for those who agree with you right Mike?Nolan did not apologize for anything beyond offending some individuals. That is not an apology for a misjudgment or error. It is the typical politician type of apology that basically means "I'm not admitting any error on my part but I'm apologizing to make you think I care." all too common these days.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-29-2007, 04:51 PM
....there are getting to be an awfully lot of ex-members you have to ask that question too....



As a self described "ex-member", what answers are you deserving of?

Move On....Ex-NACHI Members can join alternative Organizations where "ex-members", such as yourself, can commiserate together.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-29-2007, 05:03 PM
Joe H., "care" may be a strong word for my reaction. I stated an opinion...,

I am also not a Republican, but I follow with interest what happens within their party and primary as it has a bearing on things as a whole....



Informed People will generally follow what is occurring with all available candidates (Republican, Democratic, etc...). The reason they follow is that after the Election, there is One Representative. The party lines fade.

In the example of Home Inspection Organizations, each operates independently of the other representing the interests of those Members that choose affiliation. Each is autonomous in their day to day operation.

I was not aware that Inspectors have bought into this concept...

"World's biggest, best inspection association
"PlanetNACHI... resistance is futile" "

You learn something new every day from this BB.

:)

Dom D'Agostino
11-29-2007, 05:51 PM
You learn something new every day from this BB.



It's OK to admit that you don't learn anything new on your own board, that's why you can't resist coming back.;)

(Sorry, couldn't help myself. All this bickering between you guys makes me feel left out...I'll pratice more self-control from now on. Continue your volley...:) )

Dom.

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 06:01 PM
Nolan did not apologize for anything beyond offending some individuals. That is not an apology for a misjudgment or error. It is the typical politician type of apology that basically means "I'm not admitting any error on my part but I'm apologizing to make you think I care." all too common these days.

Nolan posted a public document on a public message board that braggs about its Free Speech, he made no comment he only posted the document, he apologized to those he had offended, which must have included you.

So you believe that on this great Freedom of speech message board that he should have to apologize for providing information of interest to members and nonmembers alike. How is that not censorship Mike? That is all most the definition of censorship..."Don't Post anything Mike Might Find Offensive or embarrassing to him or his leader", isn't that what you are saying Mike? You're the one acting like a politician caught with his pants down.

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 06:06 PM
As a self described "ex-member", what answers are you deserving of?

Move On....Ex-NACHI Members can join alternative Organizations where "ex-members", such as yourself, can commiserate together.

Are you and Burkeson connected in some physical way Joe, or is "Deserving Of" just the latest catch phrase for your pack. Talk about pack mentality, Burkeson just used the exact same words when he threatened to have me kicked of the InterNachi Free Speech board. Just how "close" are you two Joe?

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-29-2007, 06:20 PM
"Deserving Of" the latest catch phrase for your pack.


Maybe Yes....Maybe No. Which answer would you like to believe?



Just how "close" are you two Joe?


How close are you suggesting?
Hve you ever met either one of us?
Have you ever seen us both together in the same room at the same time?
Have you ever heard our voices?

Let me guess. Your next post will suggest we are one and the same sharing NACHI Identities.:) :)

Michael Larson
11-29-2007, 06:29 PM
Nolan posted a public document on a public message board that braggs about its Free Speech, he made no comment he only posted the document, he apologized to those he had offended, which must have included you.

So you believe that on this great Freedom of speech message board that he should have to apologize for providing information of interest to members and nonmembers alike. How is that not censorship Mike? That is all most the definition of censorship..."Don't Post anything Mike Might Find Offensive or embarrassing to him or his leader", isn't that what you are saying Mike? You're the one acting like a politician caught with his pants down.
Members-Only Discussion (http://www.nachi.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
This forum is only viewable by NACHI members. Use it to discuss topics that are only relevant to NACHI members, or should not be made public.

I maintain that the link posted was primarily relevant to NACHI members and posting in a member only area would have promoted much more free discussion without interference from non members with an ax to grind.

Joseph Michalski
11-29-2007, 06:45 PM
Joe H, I form opinions all the time on things that impact my life and livlihood, even when I am not party to the decisions or processes.

There are, as you point out, many difference between political parties and trade associations. However, one may still draw opinions of the quality and character of those represented by each through the demonstrated deeds and character of their chosen leaders.

I didn't think it was possible for me to think any less of nick. After having read the document Nolan linked, I realize that I should never underestimate how little I can think of him.

I do not think any less of the outstanding people I know in Internachi, but I believe that this provides fodder for those who would like to take shots at or attempt to hurt their livlihood based on their choice of association (I think we all know there are Internachi bashers out there). I hope that this doesn't impact my Internachi friends even a little.

If my forming opinions bothers you, I don't know what to tell you.

Lewis Capaul
11-29-2007, 06:57 PM
Members-Only Discussion (http://www.nachi.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
This forum is only viewable by NACHI members. Use it to discuss topics that are only relevant to NACHI members, or should not be made public.

I maintain that the link posted was primarily relevant to NACHI members and posting in a member only area would have promoted much more free discussion without interference from non members with an ax to grind.

That's your opinion Mike, not the same as other might or do have. Where you believe things should be posted doesn't matter to anyone else.

I used to suggest that certain things be discussed in the members only forum, like licensing which always leads to a battle royal, and the penile implant humor that your buddies displayed in a public forum, I didn't notice you criticizing them Mike, Pack members?

Nick had Bushart post a NAHI deposition in a public forum Mike, he even told him in public to post this or that part, wouldn't that have been of more interest to members and less embarrassing to the Association if it had been done, if at all, in the members only forum.

You seem to be pretty picky on who and what you criticize Mike, you didn't used to be that way, I think you've been hanging around with the wrong sort of people.

Joseph P. Hagarty
11-29-2007, 06:57 PM
...I do not think any less of the outstanding people I know in Internachi, but I believe that this provides fodder for those who would like to take shots at or attempt to hurt their livlihood based on their choice of association (I think we all know there are Internachi bashers out there). I hope that this doesn't impact my Internachi friends even a little.

If my forming opinions bothers you, I don't know what to tell you.


Joe,

I would not try to sway you in your opinion.
I also do not internalize or view alternative opinions as a personal attack.
We agree to disagree and move on. Quite simple.

Michael Larson
11-29-2007, 07:33 PM
That's your opinion Mike, not the same as other might or do have. Where you believe things should be posted doesn't matter to anyone else.I stand by my opinion and the reason for posting it.


I used to suggest that certain things be discussed in the members only forum, like licensing which always leads to a battle royal, and the penile implant humor that your buddies displayed in a public forum, I didn't notice you criticizing them Mike, Pack members?You weren't paying attention then.


Nick had Bushart post a NAHI deposition in a public forum Mike, he even told him in public to post this or that part, wouldn't that have been of more interest to members and less embarrassing to the Association if it had been done, if at all, in the members only forum.So? If you had posted "Nolan's document" her I would have no issue with that and remain perfectly consistent with my view.


You seem to be pretty picky on who and what you criticizeI don't enter in to all possible points of contention.:)


Mike, you didn't used to be that way, I think you've been hanging around with the wrong sort of people.huh?

Jerry Peck
11-29-2007, 08:11 PM
I am truly amazed that these posts have gone on ... and on ... and on ... and on ... offering no new information and only digs at one another ...

Actually, I guess I am not really amazed at that, I guess it was to be "expected" ...

bruce m graham III
11-30-2007, 05:27 AM
Jerry,
It's like watching children at play, kids can say the darnedest things.:)

Deleted Account
11-30-2007, 09:08 AM
I am truly amazed that these posts have gone on ... and on ... and on ... and on ...



So much so that you just couldn't resist the urge to add to the length of the thread without contributing anything of value could you?

One of the reasons for the length & the repetition is because one of the posters (much like you) is publicly mourning the loss of his membership at NACHI and wants everyone to share in his pain, the other reason of course is that his claims are so far removed from truth that he is left with repetition as his only tool to attempt to convince the masses of his sincerity.

I suggest that everyone who posts on threads like this of course be allowed to speak their peace but after that the poster should make a valid attempt to raise consciousness by adding something of value or impart some type of information which might offset the valueless mumbo jumbo, what do you think?

Joe's Thought for Today: Pirate Facts

How did pirates actually go about attacking an enemy vessel? When pirates commanded a superior vessel they could easily confront any victim with cannon fire, crippling the ship and stimulating a quick surrender. However, pirates rarely commanded superior vessels, in fact, most often pirates commanded small lightly armored but highly maneuverable ships. For this reason, pirates seldom relied on fire power. Instead, pirates generally preferred to quickly board the enemy ship, robbing of goods, and rapidly retreating. Often, pirates would be greatly outnumbered, but because pirates employed various scare tactics they paralyzed their victims with fear.

Richard Rushing
11-30-2007, 09:55 AM
quote from joe b to Jerry P:
"So much so that you just couldn't resist the urge to add to the length of the thread without contributing anything of value could you?"
__________________________________________________ ___


Now, that may have been one of the more accurate post ever made by (all) the idoits who only post regarding association non-sense. These same folks always contribute nothing meaningful to the progression of the profession related to the inspection side of the business. You can search high and low, but it appears that about 90% of these contributors only contribution to this board is childish name-calling and only promotes lactating from their upper torso protuberances.

Of the folks in this thread who think so highly of themselves, go back and do a search of all your posts and read through them... you'll find that you will pretty much be embarrased by your own childish behavior. These same folks post in the associations related threads exclusively.

The really funny thing is when someone will jump onto this board that NEVER posts unless they have been advised by someone else that there is a thread regarding their association. This is equivalent to a crack junkie who just can't help themselves-- they just have to go back for more because.... well, that's all they know and it's what makes them 'feel-good'.

I guess it's a sad state when one's psychy is dependent upon getting a 'fix' by means of cyber-drive-by-shootings.

By the things you folks post regularly, your future is partially written for you in the way of;
-Court ordered 'Anger Management'
-Divorce (if not already happened)
-Discriminating outlook on other people and races
-Always looking external instead of internally to place blame for anything.

Good luck with the rest of your lives.

Lewis Capaul
11-30-2007, 10:22 AM
So much so that you just couldn't resist the urge to add to the length of the thread without contributing anything of value could you?

One of the reasons for the length & the repetition is because one of the posters (much like you) is publicly mourning the loss of his membership at NACHI and wants everyone to share in his pain, the other reason of course is that his claims are so far removed from truth that he is left with repetition as his only tool to attempt to convince the masses of his sincerity.

I suggest that everyone who posts on threads like this of course be allowed to speak their peace but after that the poster should make a valid attempt to raise consciousness by adding something of value or impart some type of information which might offset the valueless mumbo jumbo, what do you think?

Joe's Thought for Today: Pirate Facts

How did pirates actually go about attacking an enemy vessel? When pirates commanded a superior vessel they could easily confront any victim with cannon fire, crippling the ship and stimulating a quick surrender. However, pirates rarely commanded superior vessels, in fact, most often pirates commanded small lightly armored but highly maneuverable ships. For this reason, pirates seldom relied on fire power. Instead, pirates generally preferred to quickly board the enemy ship, robbing of goods, and rapidly retreating. Often, pirates would be greatly outnumbered, but because pirates employed various scare tactics they paralyzed their victims with fear.

Good old Joe,

He comes over here implying that he loves and supports Free Speech, yet on his own board he attempts to have people, now a non-member, kicked off the message board completely.

He claims that he is an anarchist, he probably heard the word back when he was a kid and thought it was cool, yet he attempts to use threats of "Attorney Generals" when he has no defense against an argument. He says that posters should contribute, yet he has not once discussed the document this post started out to be about, he went immediately into his attack mode, refusing to explain statements made in the document by his leader or the findings of the Judge. He did ask how this Order could be enforced, and, I apologize to the readers of this board, I explained a couple of ways that it could and hopefully will.

Sorry, Joe is just to much fun to wind up for me to resist, he twists and twirls throwing out insults and threats hoping that one will stick, and the more they don't the faster he spins.

Over one little document and a now defunct logo he's threatened to "fight to the Death" and use Florida's "Castle" Law to justify shooting anyone knocking on his door. He's said that he spend all one morning copying my post and sent them to two Attorney Generals (a strange thing for an anarchist to do), on his message board within a thread that includes my name and asks the question why isn't this a free speech message board, the threatens to have me kicked off the board for exercising that same free speech, and now I'm Bin Laden!! and faster and faster he spins.....

First Joe claims to be an anarchist, but he runs to the government for "protection", not much of an anarchist is he. Then he's going to have me sued for slander and libel, like his favorite female Nachi member often did, but to be slanderous or libelous my statements would have to be proven to be untrue AND malicious, so poor Joe he's not much of a legal expert either.

Now he's a PIRATE, that's waaaay!! too funny.

Poor Burkeson, he so wants to be "cool" and be known as an anarchist, but he has no understanding of anarchy itself and can't recognize anarchy or the tactics of an anarchist when it is staring him in the face and challenging him constantly. Maybe he'll have better luck being a PIRATE!

I apologize again to the readers of this board, Joe's fight to the death was just to hard to resist. I'm done, unless someone wants to actually discuss the subject of this thread, for any other arguments that have been discussed here that involve me, let's take them to the "Association in Denial's" message board where threats, name calling, attempts at intimidation, and all the "FU" crap passes for intelligent conversation.

Michael Larson
11-30-2007, 10:44 AM
--------------------

Deleted Account
11-30-2007, 10:51 AM
In regards to my current avatar, I was kindly asked to refrain from using my NACHI logo on this website due to the threat to involve the criminal justice system to help prohibit it's public display. The logic here is that the fair use of the NACHI logo has nothing to do with Brian or this message board and that those parties should not be subject to a mad man's warped ambitions, and I agree.

I will honor the request and no longer fly the NACHI logo as my avatar here on this board, the fact that the NACHI logo is still in prominent use on my website, vehicle, correspondence & on other message boards is proof enough that I am still in complete defiance and contempt of whatever court made whatever ruling that says I can no longer use the logo.

Joe's Thought for Today: SMALLSWORD
Several different types of swords were used by pirates. They would have mainly used the most common ones found in their particular part of the world. For European pirates in the 'Golden Age of Piracy', these were normally the one handed type popular in Europe at the time called a smallsword. This straight bladed short sword was designed mainly as a thrusting weapon, and was normally used for dueling. This sword weighed about two pounds, and was thirty to forty inches long. Some skill was needed to wield this sword in anger. And it could be broken if used against a heavier blade.

Dan Harris
11-30-2007, 11:26 AM
Gosh guys, you guys are getting rough on ole Joe.
Heck, he's just doing what he's told that he "shall" do by following his orgs requirements to maintain membership.

His orgs code requirement.
The InterNACHI member shall assist the InterNACHI leadership in disseminating and publicizing the benefits of InterNACHI membership.

Deleted Account
11-30-2007, 12:08 PM
Gosh guys, you guys are getting rough on ole Joe.



Don't worry about me Dan, enmity is the way of the world when you are are willing to stand up for your beliefs. Just imagine how different life would be for me here if only I was willing to sip the kool aid (spit). :)


Joe's Thought for Today: Pirate Ships
Sloops - The favorite little wonder boat of Caribbean and Atlantic pirates in the late 1600's was first produced in large numbers by master builders in Jamaica, and the Bermudans augmented her one-mast design later in the 1700's. It was usually rigged for a large fore-and aft mainsail, but could easily be altered for various sail combinations, the huge bowsprit adding more canvas area for maneuverability