Taco recirculating pump

[Ian Page]

Having a problem uploading a pic so I'll do my best to describe...
I've seen dozens of recirculating pumps in residential application. Typically installed on the hot side, either on the discharge outlet of a water heater with a looped plumbing system, or at a distant fixture with a check-valve connecting hot and cold supply - thus providing the recirculation back to the water heater.
I came across a Taco pump today, seemingly 'professionally' installed, though not confirmed, just connected in-line to the hot side riser directly out of the top of the WH. The system was not looped in any way, just a basic supply with runs and risers to fixtures. So...am I missing something? I fail to see how a pump installed in this manner can have any beneficial effect whatsoever in improving hot supply. Water pressure was better than average.
I have done some research and came across one similar 'approved' installation application but still fail to see the benefit. Looking to be enlightened...

[Jim Luttrall]

Having a problem uploading a pic so I'll do my best to describe...
I've seen dozens of recirculating pumps in residential application. Typically installed on the hot side, either on the discharge outlet of a water heater with a looped plumbing system, or at a distant fixture with a check-valve connecting hot and cold supply - thus providing the recirculation back to the water heater.
I came across a Taco pump today, seemingly 'professionally' installed, though not confirmed, just connected in-line to the hot side riser directly out of the top of the WH. The system was not looped in any way, just a basic supply with runs and risers to fixtures. So...am I missing something? I fail to see how a pump installed in this manner can have any beneficial effect whatsoever in improving hot supply. Water pressure was better than average.
I have done some research and came across one similar 'approved' installation application but still fail to see the benefit. Looking to be enlightened...

I think you are correct "unless" there is a hidden valve/crossover to a return line. For a recirculation pump to work, it must... recirculate.

- - - Updated - - -

When in doubt, check it for function by timing the hot water delivery time at a distant location or two.

[Jerry Peck]

Was the cold water supply line warm or hot?

The return line could have been connected into the cold water supply line to the water heater someplace in the wall or where it was not visible.

[Dom D'Agostino]

The bypass was probably installed under a vanity (http://www.watts.com/images/aux_images/whatsnew/IHWRS/install_2_hi-res.jpg), easy to miss if there are stored items in the cabinet.

Dom.

[Ian Page]

No Bi-pass. The home was vacant and all vanities empty, so nothing missed. I took pics of all (8 sinks in all, including kitchen). Looked and re-looked at every one and...nada.
Jerry, the cold side was cold, though the home was unoccupied and the WH set at 'vacation'. I fired up the WH - Cold still cold and hot still took several minutes to get to a distant fixture, though I suppose that could have, in part, been due to the house being unoccupied.

The Taco valve was clearly an add-on and not originally installed to the 1990 home but the sweated joints looked clean and professionally installed. The installer clearly went to some trouble to install by running an additional surface mounted receptacle, just for the pump.

Even if any cross-over was hidden a check valve would / should be visible and accessible but again...nada.

These pumps seem pretty durable and have a replaceable cartridge, has anyone had any experience with them?

[Raymond Wand]

Ian

There are good schematics here to aid in your diagnoses.

https://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/100-41.pdf

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Thanks Ray!
Ian, did the pump assembly look like this Watts system.
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[Ian Page]

Thanks Ray!
Ian, did the pump assembly look like this Watts system.
32417

Robert, pretty much the same - different pump of course and a little higher up the riser. Basically just inserted into the riser off the hot.
http://s3.supplyhouse.com/images/products/zoom/007-f5-6.jpg

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Robert, pretty much the same - different pump of course and a little higher up the riser. Basically just inserted into the riser off the hot.
http://s3.supplyhouse.com/images/products/zoom/007-f5-6.jpg

Faster hot water on demand.
Not instant but still $$$ in your bank not the power corporations and shareholders.

[John Kogel]

A plumber too clueless to perform a basic installation? Hmm, yes I suppose it's possible. :D:D

How about this? A mixing valve in the master bathroom. Warm water at both tub valves. Plumber tells my clients this is correct. :confused:

You have probably seen a few of these pumps unplugged, either because they did nothing or they were perceived to be wasting power. But the good ones have computer chip timers to make them pretty efficient.

[Jerry Peck]

... did the pump assembly look like this Watts system.
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Anyone else notice that T&P relief valve discharge pipe is going ... UP? :photo:

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Hope this helps Ian.

What about Installation?
The do it yourselfer or professional plumber can easily install this system in less than 30 minutes! The pump attaches to your existing water heater's hot water line out. Then you would attach a comfort valve at the water source (like a bathroom or kitchen sink). That's it!
In the past this type of system would cost thousands of dollars, as a return line would have to be run back to the water heater. The patented comfort valves solve this problem, by using your existing cold water lines as a return line. An ingenious retrofit system that saves you money.


Easy Installation
No Return Line Required
One Pump Is Installed At Your Water Heater
A Comfort Valve Is Placed On Your Sink At The End Of Each Branch In Your Home
Works With Multiple "Comfort" Valves For Complete Home Comfort At Every Water Source

The positive effect of this hot water circulator can also greatly affect your pocket book! The water utility savings alone can allow this system to pay for itself in as little time as its first year of operation.

(http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html)Whole House Instant Hot Water Circulator (http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html)

Look for a comfort valve.
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[Jim Luttrall]

The positive effect of this hot water circulator can also greatly affect your pocket book! The water utility savings alone can allow this system to pay for itself in as little time as its first year of operation.

(http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html)Whole House Instant Hot Water Circulator (http://www.rewci.com/whhohotwaci.html)

Look for a comfort valve.
32419

From your link "The system works by putting hot water into the hot water line instantly, using a pump with a built-in timer at the water heater and one or more bypass valves."
The pump cannot work by itself. It must use some sort of a return or bypass valve.
They call it a "comfort" valve in this brochure.

Also, note these do NOT save energy. Yes they save water but actually do require energy to operate as well as having continuously hot water being cooled and reheated.

Also, note that the cold water won't be truly cold any longer, lukewarm is more like it.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Anyone else notice that T&P relief valve discharge pipe is going ... UP? :photo:
Besides too busy looking at the possible flooding concern on the cold water side on another thread:-)
Good catch.

[Ian Page]

Anyone else notice that T&P relief valve discharge pipe is going ... UP? :photo:
I just thought the tank was upside down 🤔

[Ian Page]

From your link "The system works by putting hot water into the hot water line instantly, using a pump with a built-in timer at the water heater and one or more bypass valves."
The pump cannot work by itself. It must use some sort of a return or bypass valve.
They call it a "comfort" valve in this brochure.

Also, note these do NOT save energy. Yes they save water but actually do require energy to operate as well as having continuously hot water being cooled and reheated.

Also, note that the cold water won't be truly cold any longer, lukewarm is more like it.

Jim that was my thought...pump not working by itself, well ...'working' ...but having little effect. I fully expected to find one or more bi-pass (comfort) valves somewhere accessible. As for the energy savings. In view of the installation, I advised my clients to unplug it as it really served little purpose and gave them a link to the company web-site.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Anyone else notice that T&P relief valve discharge pipe is going ... UP? :photo:
Ian was close.

I took the photo standing on my head just the way you taught me yoga master:-)

PS: Not from one of my HI's
Pulled it off the Internet for Ian.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Jim that was my thought...pump not working by itself, well ...'working' ...but having little effect. I fully expected to find one or more bi-pass (comfort) valves somewhere accessible. As for the energy savings. In view of the installation, I advised my clients to unplug it as it really served little purpose and gave them a link to the company web-site.

A client informed me, hearsay never the less, that after installing one such pump device, I forget the manufacturer, all bathrooms serving their large family, 3 plus bathrooms and a water closet, get hot water faster with a more reliable temperature than the old water heater and plumbing setup they had.
Mornings were anxious on all parties when everyone wanted to shower so mom said.

The new water heater was a 60 gallon fast heating model and Energy Star rated.
They also noted an energy saving $$$.
Significant he said but the attic was also insulated, which to me helped decrease the over all energy bills.

Thought I would throw that in.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Here is a WATTS INSTANT HOT WATERRECIRCULATING SYSTEM.
Might be they changed the pump to a TACO and left the Sensor Valve Installation from the original manufacturer.
http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/1127462/16945591/1330891610320/watts-instructions.pdf?token=NK0%2FLeXXl%2BwoxN%2FwfPcyf ZcvWEQ%3D
Never know...It could happen.

Ian, if you can post a pic please do.
Thanks for the thread.:)
Always eager to see and learn more things on InspectionNews.
Makes the treasure hunt more fun thanks to you guys and gals.

[Ian Page]

Taco recirculating pump install - no cross-connections.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Taco recirculating pump install - no cross-connections.
All the chatter for nothing Ian?
Makes me want to cry.:mad:

[Barry Williamson]

Yea, Thanks for sharing