Expansion joints

[Tom Hennessy]

We are putting in expansion joints in our plumbing system and my son and I and the plumbing warehouse guys are at odds which way the arrow/flow should point on the vent stacks. I think the flow in the vents goes upwards therefore the flow is up/arrow should point up but in the drain stack the flow is down so the arrow/flow should point down but the fella at the plumbing warehouse says he thinks the arrow on the vent stack should go down , "because stuff can flow down the vent", he says.
Can't find anything anywhere about it?
This is the type of expansion joint.
Product Specification (http://www.canplasplumbing.com/DesktopModules/Canplas.Prodmenus/SubmittalSheet.aspx?PartID=45002)

[Jerry Peck]

Okay, that's a new one on me - I looked it up and, from the expansion joints for plumbing pipes I found ... I doubt they are the ones you are referring to - so, any photos?

Are they marked for DWV? If so, then the Drain and Waste would be the direction, and the vent would follow that same direction (air flow is in high and flows down, just like water flow is in high and flows down ... "vent" lets water in to keep traps from siphoning dry ... the vent does allow odor and air to 'vent' up and out, but the main air flow is in high and flows down).

[Tom Hennessy]

Okay, that's a new one on me - I looked it up and, from the expansion joints for plumbing pipes I found ... I doubt they are the ones you are referring to - so, any photos?

Are they marked for DWV? If so, then the Drain and Waste would be the direction, and the vent would follow that same direction (air flow is in high and flows down, just like water flow is in high and flows down ... "vent" lets water in to keep traps from siphoning dry ... the vent does allow odor and air to 'vent' up and out, but the main air flow is in high and flows down).

I was told by my brother they were required. They are marked DWV , for vertical use only, and the inner sleeve of the 'shock absorber' would allow for the 'flow' to flow/drip into the other pipe if the arrow points down, so the joints are correct it would seem.
Why would this be a 'new one on you', are you not around the Northern parallel?
I did include a photo ..
Product Specification (http://www.canplasplumbing.com/DesktopModules/Canplas.Prodmenus/SubmittalSheet.aspx?PartID=45002)

Thanks for the help,

[Jerry Peck]

For some reason I didn't see the product specifications?

The correct orientation of that fitting is with the directional arrow pointing down.

I've never seen an expansion joint installed in plumbing systems ... and yes, I am in the Northern Hemisphere.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

For some reason I didn't see the product specifications?

The correct orientation of that fitting is with the directional arrow pointing down.

I've never seen an expansion joint installed in plumbing systems ... and yes, I am in the Northern Hemisphere.
I concur, down direction. With the flow or air.

Here is a link (http://www.flexicraft.com/?gclid=CI79xsrxps4CFYGHaQod2UwOlA), Jerry. Used in convectional/industrial applications.

Tom, you added on an addition and reconfigured the floor planes?

[Raymond Wand]

Plumbing (http://www.canplasplumbing.com/plumbing.aspx?categoryID=759)

Flow direction and proper degree of extension indicated on expansion joint.

http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta.ca/documents/ss/STANDATA/plumbing/2012-P-07-03.pdf

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Ray, 4 stories in that pdf.
Residential/Commercial usage.

From the manufacturer, (For Log Homes) I just picked up on it.

Learn something new every day.
Thanks Tom!

PS: You stumped Jerry.

Sorry for the edits everyone. Dam, do I need my coffee.
Why start a new post.
Waste no want not.;)

[Jerry Peck]

Here is a link (http://www.flexicraft.com/?gclid=CI79xsrxps4CFYGHaQod2UwOlA), Jerry.

Yep, that's some of the ones I found in my search.

Under what conditions would one be needed in residential constrution?

[Tom Hennessy]

Yep, that's some of the ones I found in my search.

Under what conditions would one be needed in residential constrution?

I'm going to have to ask around a bit more to see if they are required for a split level. I may have wasted everyones' time.

[Raymond Wand]

Ask your municipal building department whats required. The buck stops at their door.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Yep, that's some of the ones I found in my search.

Under what conditions would one be needed in residential construction?

Consider the wall assembly; substrate length = height in Sq. Ft.
Here is one link (http://file:///C:/Users/rober/Downloads/Installation%20of%20Stucco%20Exterior%20Finish%20O ver%20Wood%20Structural%20Panel%20Wall%20Sheathing .pdf)that might help. I have not read the entire PDF.
Like brick veneer of other expansive solid surfaces.

Jerry, in my opinion, within reason it does not hurt to add an expansion joint, as long as it was correctly installed.

Raymond makes a case as well. Ask the municipality, although I do not know if they would consider that their jurisdiction.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry, in my opinion, within reason it does not hurt to add an expansion joint, as long as it was correctly installed.

Raymond makes a case as well. Ask the municipality, although I do not know if they would consider that their jurisdiction.

Robert,

It never hurts to do more than is required - the observation was one of it being required - I've never seen one that I recall, or a need for one to be installed - remember ... vertical installation ... if the structure moves that much ... I would want to know why.

Regarding asking the AHJ ... we say that often here as that is the ultimate answer.

[Raymond Wand]

http://www.hdpe.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tr-21_thermal_expansion_contraction_plastic_pipe.pdf

See page 23
Drain, Waste & Vent (DWV) Installations

Also
http://www.ppfahome.org/abs/absspec.pdf

[Tom Hennessy]

http://www.hdpe.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/tr-21_thermal_expansion_contraction_plastic_pipe.pdf

See page 23
Drain, Waste & Vent (DWV) Installations

Also
http://www.ppfahome.org/abs/absspec.pdf

"Drain, Waste & Vent (DWV) Installations – Expansion/contraction does not present anyproblems in DWV installations in structures up to 2 stories."

So, I would assume then my bi-level won't need them.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Robert,

It never hurts to do more than is required - the observation was one of it being required - I've never seen one that I recall, or a need for one to be installed - remember ... vertical installation ... if the structure moves that much ... I would want to know why.

Regarding asking the AHJ ... we say that often here as that is the ultimate answer.

Sorry, Jerry.
I got mixed up replying to this thread.
I thought I was replying to the past thread, is this a crack above the garage door opening. IMO an expansion joint.
Ops.:o

[ROBERT YOUNG]

"Drain, Waste & Vent (DWV) Installations – Expansion/contraction does not present anyproblems in DWV installations in structures up to 2 stories."

So, I would assume then my bi-level won't need them.

May I ask whom recommended or suggested them please.

[Tom Hennessy]

May I ask whom recommended or suggested them please.

My brother, he's been fixing houses for a couple decades and I didn't question his 'input' just thought he was right. Come to think of it my new plumber wasn't sure whether my offset stack would be good enough because of the bend in it, but he didn't say it was wrong to install.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

My brother, he's been fixing houses for a couple decades and I didn't question his 'input' just thought he was right. Come to think of it my new plumber wasn't sure whether my offset stack would be good enough because of the bend in it, but he didn't say it was wrong to install.
Thanks, Tom.

Why such an off set?
What stack, the soil or DWV?
Ask the plumber his recommendations.

To be honest, the plumbing terminology is not what I am use to.
Jerry, points out some remarks worth considering in post # 12.
Good luck with your project. :D
Keep us posted.

[Tom Hennessy]

Thanks, Tom.

Why such an off set?
What stack, the soil or DWV?
Ask the plumber his recommendations.

To be honest, the plumbing terminology is not what I am use to.
Jerry, points out some remarks worth considering in post # 12.
Good luck with your project. :D
Keep us posted.

The soil stack runs down the wall and then just before the floor it jogs out to the drain, just above the cleanout, it still is cast where it meets the drain in the floor. My plumber said the bend may compensate for any need for an expansion joint but now that we know the houses today aren't flexing to any great extent, those expansion joints probably won't be required.

[ROBERT YOUNG]

Three statements there.
Under lined is mine.

1: The soil stack runs down the wall and 2: then just before the floor 3: it jogs out to the drain,

Everything sound correct if the floor is the slab.

What bend are he/you referring to.
It should be a wye, quarter bend.
It all sounds good but refer everything to the plumber.

[Tom Hennessy]

Three statements there.
Under lined is mine.


Everything sound correct if the floor is the slab.

What bend is he/you referring to. It should be a capped off laterally placed Y.
So what seems to be the problem?It's just that I mentioned the expansion joint to my plumber and he wasn't sure about the need but in the same breath said he thought since the soil stack had a bend in it , it may allow it to flex enough so that the need wouldn't be there for an expansion joint if they were required.