Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI? [Archive] - InspectionNews

Jim Mosiuk

12-23-2016, 01:10 PM

Does that statement include OACHI?

They claim the following on their website - Statistics for Home Inspectors in Ontario - OntarioACHI (http://www.ontarioachi.ca/statistics/)

Something does not jive. How can OACHI be larger than InterNachi in Ontario? Can you clarify this for me and others? While there maybe overlapping memberships no one outside of OACHI who is also an InterNachi members knows anything about OACHI representing them, nor have they ever been asked to be represented.

Even Nick says he has nothing to do with or any knowledge about OACHI, because I have asked him about this.

Merry Christmas Lisa.

Ray,

You bad mouth InterNachi every chance you can. Do you really think Nick is going to tell you anything?

OntarioAchi IS the Ontario chapter of InterNachi and operates with the full support of Nick and InterNachi

Do you really think Nick would allow OntarioAchi allow them advertise that they are InterNachi if they were not?

Merry Xmas

Jim Mosiuk

- - - Updated - - -

Does that statement include OACHI?

They claim the following on their website - Statistics for Home Inspectors in Ontario - OntarioACHI (http://www.ontarioachi.ca/statistics/)

Something does not jive. How can OACHI be larger than InterNachi in Ontario? Can you clarify this for me and others? While there maybe overlapping memberships no one outside of OACHI who is also an InterNachi members knows anything about OACHI representing them, nor have they ever been asked to be represented.

Even Nick says he has nothing to do with or any knowledge about OACHI, because I have asked him about this.

Merry Christmas Lisa.

Ray,

You bad mouth InterNachi every chance you can. Do you really think Nick is going to tell you anything?

OntarioAchi IS the Ontario chapter of InterNachi and operates with the full support of Nick and InterNachi

Do you really think Nick would allow OntarioAchi allow them advertise that they are InterNachi if they were not?

Merry Xmas

Jim Mosiuk

Raymond Wand

12-23-2016, 01:39 PM

Jim Mosiuk

12-23-2016, 01:49 PM

Thats odd I don't see anywhere in my post to Lisa where I knocked Nachi. Thats your bias coming out.

From Nick's email to me,
I suggest you get your facts straight before you cast aspersions. I believe Nick over you any day.

And before you make further disparaging remarks, this is not the Nachi forum, no one will put up with such nonsense, so consider taking it back to that forum.

No gripe here Ray. Just stating the facts as I too have had emails with Nick.

I have as much right to post here as you do.

Once again Merry Xmas

Jim Mosiuk

12-23-2016, 02:08 PM

Raymond Wand

12-23-2016, 02:47 PM

[QUOTE=Raymond Wand;270798]Thats odd I don't see anywhere in my post to Lisa where I knocked Nachi. Thats your bias coming out.

From Nick's email to me,
I suggest you get your facts straight before you cast aspersions. I believe Nick over you any day.

And before you make further disparaging remarks, this is not the Nachi forum, no one will put up with such nonsense, so consider taking it back to that forum.[/QUO

You totally changed your post as I was responding to the original.

I have been on this forum for 5 years so have seen your hate for InterNachi

You have a right to your opinion as I do mine.

I read something that I knew was false and responded accordingly which I have the right to do.

Have a great day

Jim

Yes, you have a right to your opinion(s) so long as they are factual and can be backed up.

I'll leave it at that; and since it's Christmas, and I am of good cheer.

I look forward to your posts on more enlightening home inspection subjects in the future.

Merry Christmas Jim.

- - - Updated - - -

It's only a marketing piece for InterNACHI if it is true. The website appears to be a copy/paste directly from the associations.

Thanks Lisa.

One question can you clarify "copy/paste directly from associations"?

Merry Christmas Lisa.

Raymond Wand

12-23-2016, 02:53 PM

Why not just ask for the thread to be deleted as it is just marketing / advertisement on Lisa/Nick's part.

Go to the RED Triangle to the left and let your feelings be known.

Merry Christmas and a Happy Hanukkah to all.

Hi Garry,

Good point, but InterNachi and CMI are advertisers here. Seems to be a privilege that comes with advertising?

I didn't mind the post, but at times the answers just become one endless sales pitch with no meat.

Fwiw.

Merry Festivus!
Merry Christmas
Happy Hanukkah
Joyeux Noel
Boun Natale
Felice Navidad
:bounce:

Jerry Peck

12-23-2016, 03:05 PM

Ray,

Now a days they call it "Fake News" ... all words, no real meaning, not based on factual events, and no support needed for the believers - the simple 'fact' that it supports what they already think is good enough for them.

Fake News is a hot item down here in the states ... just say whatever you want, and the louder and more often you say it ... it becomes 'real' and 'accepted' ... even though there is nothing behind it but air.

Cheers and Happy Holidays to all!

Raymond Wand

12-23-2016, 03:14 PM

Jerry, ain't that the truth!

Happy Holidays!

Lisa Endza

12-23-2016, 05:52 PM

Thanks Lisa.

One question can you clarify "copy/paste directly from associations"?

If you scroll to the bottom of each column, there is a link at the bottom of each column that leads to the benefits page of each association showing that the chart isn't "fake news." It's not even news. It's just a list of each association's membership benefits copied and pasted from each association's website.

Which Home Inspection Association Should I Join? (http://www.joinhomeinspectionassociation.com/)

Raymond Wand

12-24-2016, 04:35 AM

Thanks Lisa,

My question remains. Is OACHI part of InterNachi?

OntarioACHI also provides administrative assistance to maintain the Ontario Chapter of the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI).

Thanks

Lisa Endza

12-24-2016, 09:07 AM

No. All InterNACHI Chapters run autonomously.

Garry Sorrells

12-24-2016, 10:45 AM

Why not just ask for the thread to be deleted as it is just marketing / advertisement on Lisa/Nick's part.

Go to the RED Triangle to the left and let your feelings be known. ........

Hi Garry,

Good point, but InterNachi and CMI are advertisers here. Seems to be a privilege that comes with advertising?

I didn't mind the post, but at times the answers just become one endless sales pitch with no meat.
Fwiw.........................:bounce:

It's only a marketing piece for InterNACHI if it is true. The website appears to be a copy/paste directly from the associations.

Ray,
Advertisers, yes.
But, if they wanted their own forum they could start their own and make every thread marketing/advertisement.
OH,,,, blinded by the Holidays, :sorry: forgot they already have their own.

Lisa,
True or not, your sole purpose was to market/advertise your product. I realize that since CO legalized pot there appears to be a lot of fuzzy thinking taking place.

Either you knew before you posted the thread what you were coping and pasting what you wanted oooooooor . you have no clue what you were doing, " appears to be a copy/paste directly from the associations", and you were confused from the 2nd hand smoke in the office ..

No mater how you slice it, width wise (sandwich) or length wise (sub/hoagie) it is still bread.:thumb:

Lisa Endza

12-24-2016, 11:06 AM

Garry Sorrells

12-24-2016, 02:27 PM

Garry, yes. The website and membership comparison chart was very flattering to InterNACHI. That's why I posted it. But again, it appears the chart was created by information directly copied and pasted from each association's own website, so I can't help that the truth is so flattering to InterNACHI.

Sadly you are being obtuse again in your response to you thread as marketing. Can't find another forum to market on I guess.

Have a Merry Christmas or a Happy Hanukkah with family or friends.

Raymond Wand

12-24-2016, 02:48 PM

Garry,

Thats why Lisa is the Communications Director. :becky:

Merry Xmas

Lisa Endza

12-24-2016, 06:20 PM

Again, I said YES. YES, I posted the article because it is so flattering of InterNACHI. The truth always is flattering to InterNACHI. Nothing I can do about that.

Merry Christmas.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-25-2016, 10:06 AM

Now to the best of my knowledge, if you are not marketing you are not being a prudent business entity.
As well, if marketing is an indignant form of sales, than Google is the biggest offender.

As well, if everything is free, except the price of admission to which remains the same once you enter if you do not leave, and there are no more membership fees after ten years, then I guess the marketing comes from satisfied users.
Just saying.:rolleyes:

ROBERT YOUNG

12-25-2016, 10:18 AM

Jim Mosiuk

12-25-2016, 10:38 AM

Jim, knowing Mr. Raymond Wand as well as his close friend Roy Cooke for quite some time now, including returning emails often and conversations with Roy Cooke, you statement is erroneous, or in err.

As for YOUR OntaioACHI argument, while some may agree, others may not.

Have any proof or facts:confused:

Robert

What does my comment have to do with Roy Cooke?

My statement about Ray is not wrong. All you have to do is read all the threads where he shows his hate for Nick and InterNachi. This is his right to say what he wants but to say it is not true is ridiculous.

As for facts about OntarioAchi I know what Nick has said face to face to me as well as emails. I also know what Nick has done behind the scenes to support the guys at OntarioAchi.

Have a Merry Xmas

Jim

- - - Updated - - -

Jim, knowing Mr. Raymond Wand as well as his close friend Roy Cooke for quite some time now, including returning emails often and conversations with Roy Cooke, you statement is erroneous, or in err.

As for YOUR OntaioACHI argument, while some may agree, others may not.

Have any proof or facts:confused:

Robert

What does my comment have to do with Roy Cooke?

My statement about Ray is not wrong. All you have to do is read all the threads where he shows his hate for Nick and InterNachi. This is his right to say what he wants but to say it is not true is ridiculous.

As for facts about OntarioAchi I know what Nick has said face to face to me as well as emails. I also know what Nick has done behind the scenes to support the guys at OntarioAchi.

Have a Merry Xmas

Jim

ROBERT YOUNG

12-25-2016, 10:59 AM

Robert

What does my comment have to do with Roy Cooke?

My statement about Ray is not wrong. All you have to do is read all the threads where he shows his hate for Nick and InterNachi. This is his right to say what he wants but to say it is not true is ridiculous.

As for facts about OntarioAchi I know what Nick has said face to face to me as well as emails. I also know what Nick has done behind the scenes to support the guys at OntarioAchi.

Have a Merry Xmas

Jim

Well when you hear it from Ray and Roy it becomes evidence.

As for the "facts" about OntarioACHI, let me say this, although some may agree while others not, and that's not many, the few word he says can be misinterpreted.
Any proof:confused:

Jim Mosiuk

12-25-2016, 11:10 AM

Well when you hear it from Ray and Roy it becomes evidence.

As for the "facts" about OntarioACHI, let me say this, although some may agree while others not, and that's not many, the few word he says can be misinterpreted.
Any proof:confused:

What a joke

ROBERT YOUNG

12-25-2016, 11:31 AM

What a joke
Mr. Mosiuk.
I am not joking.

It was you that masqueraded as an OntaioASHI BOD was it not?
I think you did the same with the PHPIC stating you were a junior member.
Both of which have been taken down from your website after much a fuss from you denying it.

So as whom believes whom? I asked for proof and facts and that is what you offered.

Show some evidence Jim.
It appears I trust Ray's word over yours.

Jim Mosiuk

12-25-2016, 11:35 AM

[QUOTE=ROBERT YOUNG;270848]Mr. Mosiuk.
I am not joking.

It was you that masqueraded as an OntaioASHI BOD was it not?
I think you did the same with the PHPIC stating you were a junior member.
Both of which have been taken down from your website after much a fuss from you denying it.

So as whom believes whom? I asked for proof and facts and that is what you offered.

Show some evidence Jim.
It appears I trust Ray's word over yours.[/QU

I see you drink a few flavours of Kool Aid

I did not comment here to have a pissing match with you as that would be a waste of my time.

Have a Great Day

JIm

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=ROBERT YOUNG;270848]Mr. Mosiuk.
I am not joking.

It was you that masqueraded as an OntaioASHI BOD was it not?
I think you did the same with the PHPIC stating you were a junior member.
Both of which have been taken down from your website after much a fuss from you denying it.

So as whom believes whom? I asked for proof and facts and that is what you offered.

Show some evidence Jim.
It appears I trust Ray's word over yours.[/QU

I see you drink a few flavours of Kool Aid

I did not comment here to have a pissing match with you as that would be a waste of my time.

Have a Great Day

JIm

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=ROBERT YOUNG;270848]Mr. Mosiuk.
I am not joking.

It was you that masqueraded as an OntaioASHI BOD was it not?
I think you did the same with the PHPIC stating you were a junior member.
Both of which have been taken down from your website after much a fuss from you denying it.

So as whom believes whom? I asked for proof and facts and that is what you offered.

Show some evidence Jim.
It appears I trust Ray's word over yours.[/QU

I see you drink a few flavours of Kool Aid

I did not comment here to have a pissing match with you as that would be a waste of my time.

Have a Great Day

JIm

Raymond Wand

12-25-2016, 01:39 PM

Jeez, just when I though it was safe to put down the egg nog and put some more coal on the fire. :pound: :laugh: ;)

Happy Festivus Day

ROBERT YOUNG

12-25-2016, 05:23 PM

I heard an enlarged prostate decrease one's stream.

Merry Christmas Ray and the gang at InpectionNews.

Raymond Wand

12-25-2016, 05:45 PM

No! Thank you! :first:

Joyeux Noel

Marc M

12-28-2016, 10:12 AM

Just wondering... what do the associations do to help or get you the inspector business? In my 20++ years Ive never received an inspection from any of the many associations I've belonged to.
IMO.. it only helps give credibility to those who are new and therefore have no provable experience.

Not you guys tho...we all know the IN guys are the smartest-est...;)

Raymond Wand

12-28-2016, 10:21 AM

Hi Marc,

Inspectors should not rely on any inspection body to provide them with leads, that is the responsibility of the individual inspector.

Personally speaking I think over the years I rec'd one or two from ASHI and OAHI. But my questionnaires over the years indicate at least for my biz, titles and association membership were not the reasons they chose my service.

Even newbies cannot rely on inspection bodies to help them get a leg up. What affiliation does is show your professionalism and commitment to COE, SOP et ceteras. But then again all associations are not created equally and we know which ones.

Best, and Happy New Year!

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 10:54 AM

Inspectors should not rely on any inspection body to provide them with leads https://www.nachi.org/inspection-leads.htm

Raymond Wand

12-28-2016, 11:09 AM

How do we know those are actual stats? After all its not the first time InterNachi has embellished facts.

How many free membership have been given out? I see there are few destitute inspectors looking for a hand out in OACHI.

Better check on this so called member referral too. Chinese or some other oriental language.
????????????????????????? (http://www.summitinspections.info/) (Summit Inspection)

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 11:51 AM

How do we know those are actual stats? After all its not the first time InterNachi has embellished facts. Fair question. If you scroll down on that page and watch for a couple minutes, you can actually watch the inspection leads come through in live time. It shows exact time the consumer comes through in live time, the InterNACHI search engine they are on, and the InterNACHI member's website they go to: InterNACHI Inspection Leads - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/inspection-leads)

You can also independently test it. Go to any of InterNACHI's 4,500 inspector search engines such as those at North American Directory of Inspectors - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/directories) Pretend you are a consumer. Get taken to an InterNACHI member's website. Then go back to the inspection leads page and wait a moment. You'll see your lead come through in live time.

Most InterNACHI members aren't even aware of where the traffic to their inspection websites is coming from as we don't use contact forms (that give InterNACHI credit for the leads) because consumers hate filling out forms.

Raymond Wand

12-28-2016, 12:15 PM

Digital Detective | Hit Counter Accuracy (http://www.digital-detective.net/hit-counter-accuracy-caveat-emptor/)

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 12:20 PM

You didn't scroll down enough. They aren't just hits. InterNACHI gets millions of hits: InterNACHI Ticker - Int'l Association of Certified Home Inspectors (InterNACHI) (http://www.nachi.org/ticker) They are click-throughs to members' inspection websites.

Don't look at the hit counter at the top of the page. Scroll down to see the click-throughs in live time (you have to watch for at least a minute as it only updates every minute), the inspection search engine that generated the traffic, and the InterNACHI member's website the consumer clicked through to. The page displays the most recent 100 click-throughs in live time. Here is the page again.

InterNACHI Inspection Leads - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/inspection-leads)

ROBERT YOUNG

12-28-2016, 12:22 PM

Just wondering... what do the associations do to help or get you the inspector business?

InterNACHI does. I do not know about other associations. Their members can speak for themselves.

In my 20++ years Ive never received an inspection from any of the many associations I've belonged to.
So sorry to hear that, Marc.

IMO.. it only helps give credibility to those who are new and therefore have no provable experience.
Experience comes in many forms. The true test is performance I guess.

Not you guys tho...we all know the IN guys are the smartest-est...;)
I concur.;)

Marc. I can count the leads monthly provided by interNACHI.
I expect I get 25% of my leads that way if not more.
Actual calls, over 10% directly from InterNACHI InspectorSeek and other useful marketing tools.

Hope that helps answer your questions.
Happy New Year buddy.
All the best..

Raymond Wand

12-28-2016, 12:44 PM

My own experience. I get clients telling me they found me on the web by Googling under home inspections for the geographic area.

- - - Updated - - -

Marc said in part:

In my 20++ years Ive never received an inspection from any of the many associations I've belonged to.

Judging by your many posts over the years you don't need an association to make you successful. Which gives more credence to my earlier comment.

Keep on doing what you are doing, if it works it ain't broken.

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 01:09 PM

My own experience. I get clients telling me they found me on the web by Googling under home inspections for the geographic area.Everyone gets clients like that. Consumers use google. That isn't a competitive advantage that gets you additional inspection jobs.

Raymond Wand

12-28-2016, 01:14 PM

Have to disagree. You know nothing about my biz and what works for me.
I spent 15 years in advertising so I think I know what I am talking about.

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 01:23 PM

I spent 15 years in advertising so I think I know what I am talking about.I don't think you do. That's probably why you "spent 15 years advertising."

For example, your website: www.raymondwand.ca (http://www.raymondwand.ca) doesn't even have NAP. I just googled you and you don't come up in your area. You said
My own experience. I get clients telling me they found me on the web by Googling under home inspections for the geographic area.Google has trouble finding you locally if your website lacks NAP.

Go here: The Importance of NAP and How to Use It - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nap)

Raymond Wand

12-28-2016, 02:22 PM

Lisa

I have a niche market, I don't cater to the type of clientele that Nachi marketing is directed to.

No need to lower myself to the likes of Nachi branding for my business. That's not an image suitable for me or my clients. (Rated R) No need for your education either. What useful purpose would Nachi be to me, and the answer is ZERO.

As for my website, its fine and serves the purpose for my needs and the business I do. I am not interested in looking at another link provided by you. Thank you anyway.

I don't know what a Nap is other than the nap I take after reading your exhaustive replies laden with more marketing links. ZZZzzzz. :)

Ps. I hope Nick appreciates me getting the hits up? :pound:

Jack Feldmann

12-28-2016, 04:27 PM

NAP is Name, Address, and Phone number.

Jerry Peck

12-28-2016, 06:07 PM

I don't think you do. That's probably why you "spent 15 years advertising."

For example, your website: www.raymondwand.ca (http://www.raymondwand.ca) doesn't even have NAP. I just googled you and you don't come up in your area. You said Google has trouble finding you locally if your website lacks NAP.

Go here: The Importance of NAP and How to Use It - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nap)

Raymond sounds like I was my web site was not there to advertise for business, it was there to let people referred to me check me out (basically, that was the purpose of it).

You remember the phrase "Batteries not included?" Advertising not needed.

When an inspector is at the head of the class, no reason to look back and get involved in the spit ball fight going on at the back of the class.

Just wanted to comment on this too: " That's probably why you "spent 15 years advertising." " ... soooo ... if 15 years of advertising means one does not need to advertise any more (your implication), then why or why does Nick's company continue to ... advertise?

Based on your implication, anything advertising past, say, 5-10 years is wasted and not needed.

Raymond Wand

12-28-2016, 06:30 PM

Jerry wrote in part:
Raymond sounds like I was my web site was not there to advertise for business, it was there to let people referred to me check me out (basically, that was the purpose of it).

Bingo. When I receive a call from a client and interview them, I ask them to take a look at my website for my contract, and fee. So its a reference tool rather than a marketing machine. To repeat myself I cater to a niche market which means better clientele, high fees, less grumbling, happy clients.

I have a lot of competition in my area, and these competitors brochures can be found in the Realtor offices. One office I stopped in at had 11 brochures from various inspection companies. Since I do not solicit Realtors I don't advertise to them.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Jack, I now realize its Name, Address, Phone.

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 07:02 PM

Then you don't understand the purpose of marketing. The purpose of marketing is not to get more work so that you have all the work you can handle.

Jerry Peck

12-28-2016, 07:25 PM

Then you don't understand the purpose of marketing. The purpose of marketing is not to get more work so that you have all the work you can handle.

Then why were you making negative comments on Raymond's marketing if continued marketing is okay.

You either need to stop complaining about people when they say they marketed for 15-20-30 years ... or stop marketing because it's been about 20 years for Nick's company.

You need to grow up, smell real roses, and comment on real things instead of continuing to spew 'the company line'.

If 'the company line" (continued marketing) is good for 'the company' then it is therefore also good for others.

If continued marketing is not good for others, then you are degrading 'the company' (Nick's company) for his continued marketing efforts.

Do everyone a favor and choose one, then stick with it. Just stop flip-flopping to suit your mood swings ... it is unbecoming to you.

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 07:37 PM

Then why were you making negative comments on Raymond's marketing if continued marketing is okay.

I don't think my comments were negative. I think they were helpful.

Ray said that his clients come from Google searches in his geographic area. Here is his exact quote:
I get clients telling me they found me on the web by Googling under home inspections for the geographic area.

But as I explained, his site ranks poorly in geographic Google searches because it lacks NAP. Home inspection searches are local nowadays and without NAP, his site is going to continue to rank poorly.

Ray also said he doesn't know what "NAP" is. Here is his exact quote:
I don't know what a Nap is So I gave him some information about it: The Importance of NAP and How to Use It - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nap)

Mark Reinmiller

12-28-2016, 07:42 PM

One organization is controlled by an elected board of experienced home inspectors. The other is run by one guy who knows how to market himself. No other profession that I know of has a professional association run by one guy.

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 07:52 PM

One organization is controlled by an elected board of experienced home inspectors.Well maybe that's why they are so small with so few membership benefits. What would home inspectors know about running an international trade association or an enormous website?

Using your system, the world would have the best professional football players building and running football stadiums. LMAO. Different skill set... no?

Anyway, InterNACHI has plenty experienced home inspectors on staff: Good people working every day to help your inspection business succeed. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/staff)

Jerry Peck

12-28-2016, 07:53 PM

The other is run by one guy who knows how to market himself. No other profession that I know of has a professional association run by one guy.

That's why I started referring to it as "Nick's company" a while back ... because that is what it is - Nick's company.

Nick's company sells "marketing", Nick's customers call themselves "members", but it is nothing more than "being a member" of Sam's Club, Costsco, or BJ's, or any of the other wholesale companies - Nick's company is a wholesale club where "members" 'get stuff at reduced prices', and, I suspect, they even get a "membership card" they can show to get into club gatherings.

Really, that pretty much defines what Nick's company is - a wholesale club, complete with membership cards and fancy logo.

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 08:04 PM

There's some truth to that. More accurately, InterNACHI provides almost everything to its members for free. But saving our members money isn't the main thing we do at InterNACHI. Although we are committed to making sure we save each and every member more than what we charge them in dues (making membership a profitable business decision). We don't just save them money though, we make them money. But even that isn't the main thing we do at InterNACHI. The main thing we provide to the inspection industry is technical education and training. With more than 1,400 governmental approvals and accreditations, InterNACHI is the most approved inspection school on earth: InterNACHI's inspection courses and exams are the most recognized, approved and accredited in the inspection industry. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/approved)

Second to education and training, InterNACHI provides marketing and business success tools to InterNACHI inspectors.

And Lastly to education, training, marketing, and business success tools, we provide absolutely everything else, mostly for free: Inspector Membership Benefits and Competitive Advantages - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/benefits)

Jerry Peck

12-28-2016, 08:13 PM

There's some truth to that. More accurately, InterNACHI provides almost everything to its members for free.

That's not any more accurately than I said - but you have to try to keep looking like you are not behind the curve even when you are, I understand that.

I said: "Nick's company is a wholesale club where "members" 'get stuff at reduced prices'"

You said: "almost everything to its members for free"

How much more "reduced prices" can one get than "free"?

But it is against your policies to accept the truth as stated by others, and, in fact, I was surprised when you admitted "There's some truth to that." - which is about as close you will likely ever get to admitting it ... but that is a start, one cannot accomplish redemption without first acknowledging the problem.

But saving our members money isn't the main thing we do at InterNACHI.

It's the only thing Nick's company/club does - look at your list, you listed all those ways that Nick's "club" saves his club members money ... a wholesale club through and through.

Lisa Endza

12-28-2016, 08:25 PM

How much more "reduced prices" can one get than "free"?Couldn't have said it better myself!

But the important part isn't that most everything is free at InterNACHi. As I explained, we only do that so that membership in InterNACHI is a profitable business decision for every one of our members. InterNACHI makes its members money.

Yes, a member can save thousands of dollars by utilizing just one free membership benefit. But the important part is what those free membership benefits are. The products and services that InterNACHI provides for free are outrageously valuable to home inspectors, their constantly-improving technical competency, and their financial success.

And even more importantly, InterNACHI is the sole source for most of those outrageously-valuable, free products and services. In other words, you can't acquire them anywhere else and are only available to members, thus giving thousands of competitive advantages to InterNACHI members over non-members.

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 04:30 AM

Lisa,

Those products you keep expounding on are not free because membership fees fuels the free benefits. The only true free aspect are those memberships given out for free to those who ask. In turn the benefits, trinkets or whatever you want to call them are actually free.

The other missing aspect of your employer is the lack of ethics, and misbehaviour, prompted and courted and nurtured by a bankrupt membership. One need look no further then the flaunting of the rules simply placed in an effort to make a non professional body appear professional. But to the discerning person its all window dressing.

You really don't have anything worthy of consideration because this is just a game for you directed by your boss to keep the hits, the name out in front.

Frankly your continued blabbing about InterNachi and lack of professionalism is a industry disaster, what with cheap titles, grade school multiple choice questions, and that other farce title which has no credibility CMI, which has no checks and balances as openly admitted. Oh and many of those have been handed out gratis. Gratis means free, a term your aptly familiar with and promote regularly.

My suggestion is you take your sanctimonious lecturing, your double talk, and your inability to answer a question(s) honestly about InterNacho and ply it on the sheep who are so deeply hypnotized by merde because this is a professional board. Lots of opportunity (sheep) to be had on your mother board since we are all too astute, professional and ethically above board to buy into baloney about your ability to market a half assed marketing body. Note the word 'marketing body'. I would use association but that is for prime time, not half time.

I am most certain we won't be disappointed by yet another meaningless reply since you are paid to be a so-called marketing guru who can only muster replies consisting of more useless marketing links.

When you finally decide the job description that suits your mantra and employers need maybe you should take one or two courses on advertising that fit industry standards and not the standards according to the ring master.

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 05:09 AM

.............just curious, what is your experience in the construction industry Lisa?

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 09:45 AM

Those products you keep expounding on are not free because membership fees fuels the free benefitsDuh.

But again, they are even better than free. Just utilizing one membership benefit will make you thousands of dollars. Here, read how InterNACHI members save thousands on just our deal with FORD: https://www.nachi.org/forum/f32/international-association-certified-home-inspectors-member-saves-7-000-00-ford-using-his-international-association-certified-home-inspectors-discount-117665/

And again, this isn't me claiming InterNACHI membership makes you money. It's your fellow inspectors saying it.

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 10:48 AM

=Lisa Endza;270933]Duh.

But again, they are even better than free. Just utilizing one membership benefit will make you thousands of dollars. Here, read how InterNACHI members save thousands on just our deal with FORD: https://www.nachi.org/forum/f32/international-association-certified-home-inspectors-member-saves-7-000-00-ford-using-his-international-association-certified-home-inspectors-discount-117665/

And again, this isn't me claiming InterNACHI membership makes you money. It's your fellow inspectors saying it.

Once again more unsubstantiated baloney marketing. I don't see any fellow inspectors claiming anything here about being inundated with monies. Quiet the contrary as displayed by the thread complaining competitors undercharging for inspection services. https://www.nachi.org/forum/f48/cheap-inspectors-117889/ I also noticed two members are so hard up that they asked for free memberships which lessens those who did pay and subsidize the rest who can't or are too cheap to begin with. Cheap skate are cheap skates no matter how you size it.

If anything the only thing Nacho has done is drive the market prices down because your marketing has flooded the market with inspectors. Also regardless what you try and instill which isn't much the market up here is tight, low inventory, high housing prices of which inspections are being waived. I think you need to look at the market before you make false claims about everyone making alot of money. But then again I don't think you post anything here that Nick hasn't told you to post.

... and more links which prove absolutely nothing. Nothing in, nothing out.

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 11:24 AM

I went back to the thread and read it slowly: https://www.nachi.org/forum/f32/international-association-certified-home-inspectors-member-saves-7-000-00-ford-using-his-international-association-certified-home-inspectors-discount-117665/

I'm convinced you're wrong. Members are making $7K on just that one membership benefit.

I'll read it again. Hold on.

Yep. He saved $7,000. And membership is only $499.

Let me get out my calculator. Hold on.

Dang, where is my calculator? I misplaced it.

Ray, do you have a calculator handy? Can you subtract $499 from $7,000 for me?

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 11:44 AM

To the cheap inspectors
https://www.nachi.org/forum/f48/cheap-inspectors-117889/

May want to send out a rescue squad to quash the post. Looks like the marketing machine has failed to parlay how to price ones services. Maybe some more freebies will keep the natives happy and not disgruntled. Perhaps a couple of free memberships will do the trick, you know lessen the membership and then ply them with some Kool Aid.

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 11:49 AM

how to price ones services.Home Inspection Fee Calculator - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/fee-calculator)

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 12:40 PM

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 12:45 PM

That calculator is a joke. It doesn't take in all the parameters of costs associated with inspecting or running a biz.. I guess only the low ballers are using it thus the cheap, cheap, cheap fees they charge.

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 01:12 PM

I hate to state the obvious here, but you do realize you're having a discussion with someone who knows nothing about Home Inspections, is not a licensed Home inspector, has never performed a Home Inspection, and has never started or owned a Home Inspection business?

While I like to debate as much as the next guy, you might as well be having this discussion with a Florist.....

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 01:21 PM

I'm here to answer any questions you have about this enormously long, ever-growing list: Inspector Membership Benefits and Competitive Advantages - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/benefits)

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 01:35 PM

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 01:43 PM

Robert,

I realize Lisa is not a communications director thats a given. Its a title only the same as all the other irrelevant titles bestowed by Nachi. I don't even think she has the background in communications to direct or instil any confidence in what she says, given that all she can do is provide links. Even a florist with limited education could provide links. CMF - Certified Master Florist. :pop2:

I understand what you're saying, but I still think it's pointless. Do you really think they are going to wake up one day and say "you know what, Ray was right, we do promote a lesser level of inspections and standards for home inspector licensure"? Don't think so....

Guess I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig in the mud, you just end up getting dirty..........and besides, the pig actually likes it.....

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 01:48 PM

I noticed she didn't answer your question. I think she likes me and not you. ;)

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 01:51 PM

I noticed she didn't answer your question. I think she likes me and not you. ;)

could be....let's just say I'm not exactly on the inacho Christmas list.

Although I did get the CMI letter last week.....;)

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 01:55 PM

Did you join? If you did I hope you got it for free.

I did send Nick a Xmas card, just cause I am a nice guy and like Nick, hard as that is to believe.

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 02:04 PM

Did you join? If you did I hope you got it for free.

I did send Nick a Xmas card, just cause I am a nice guy and like Nick, hard as that is to believe.

Naaaa, I stay away from Associations now, too much childsplay for me.

I know 3 guys who got it for free (CMI).....boy, that must really piss those off who had to pay for it.

I have never actually met Nick. Although he did approach me through a second party to help rewrite their wind mitigation course. Pretty sure I wasn't the first choice as I was not exactly there greatest fan.

I never take any of this stuff personally. But, I did have a few of his cohorts put me in a difficult situation once and that kinda pissed me off a bit.

The Association I used to belong to had dealings with Nick, the founders of that organization actually help him set up inacho. He went an entirely different direct and they bailed. but like I said, never met him.....

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 02:11 PM

.............just curious, what is your experience in the construction industry Lisa?

None.

............. just curious, what is your experience in operating international trade associations Robert?

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 02:14 PM

None.

............. just curious, what is your experience in operating international trade associations Robert?

Same as yours.....none.

I also have no experience being a cobbler, auto mechanic, doctor, physicist, meteorologist, journalist....(do you want me to name them all?)

Damn it Raymond, now you got me doing it.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-29-2016, 02:21 PM

Who's nacho?

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 02:38 PM

Thanks Robert S.

How come I always get blamed? ha ha.
Remember, confession is good for the soul! ;)

Happy New Year!

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 02:42 PM

Nick reached out to Brian and offered to come here and answer any question anyone asked if Brian would make a separate section for him. Maybe that will happen.

Happy New Year.

Jerry Peck

12-29-2016, 02:47 PM

I understand what you're saying, but I still think it's pointless. Do you really think they are going to wake up one day and say "you know what, Ray was right, we do promote a lesser level of inspections and standards for home inspector licensure"? Don't think so....

If they do wake up and realize that, they will go ... 'we achieved our goal' ... and their members will not understand what went on or that they were willing participants in it.

Guess I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig in the mud, you just end up getting dirty..........and besides, the pig actually likes it.....

That's the saying 'arguing with an inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a while you realize the inspector loves it'.

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 02:48 PM

Who's nacho?

InterNachi/NACHI

Nacho is a humorous term for InterNachi/NACHI often compared to a brand of corn chip.

Similar to the Kool Aid comments.

Jerry Peck

12-29-2016, 02:54 PM

Nick reached out to Brian and offered to come here and answer any question anyone asked if Brian would make a separate section for him. Maybe that will happen.

Happy New Year.

Maybe Brian will call that section 'The Pig Sty' ... Nick likes dealing in the mud so much, it should feel like home to Nicky.

- - - Updated - - -

InterNachi/NACHI

Nacho is a humorous term for InterNachi/NACHI often compared to a brand of corn chip.

Similar to the Kool Aid comments.

Also compared to nachos and cheese ... because it's all so cheesy over there. :pop2:

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 03:06 PM

Nick reached out to Brian and offered to come here and answer any question anyone asked if Brian would make a separate section for him. Maybe that will happen.

Happy New Year.

Just so happens you're in luck.....this forum has an entire section with 16 individual threads of technical questions.

......he can start there.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-29-2016, 03:09 PM

InterNachi/NACHI

Nacho is a humorous term for InterNachi/NACHI often compared to a brand of corn chip.

Similar to the Kool Aid comments.

Heard it many times, Ray.
All the trash talk as well.:pop2:

I just wonder why intellectuals talk like children, make up names, and gang up on defenceless girls.
Hope you see my point.:confused:

Kinda childish but I guess the difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys and the games they play.

Best.

Jerry Peck

12-29-2016, 03:14 PM

Kinda childish but I guess the difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys and the games they play.

Which is why you come here and trash talk others and inspection associations while praising Nicky and his company?

Robert, you really do have to grow up and do better than that.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much (as do you, Robert).

ROBERT YOUNG

12-29-2016, 03:27 PM

Which is why you come here and trash talk others and inspection associations while praising Nicky and his company?

Robert, you really do have to grow up and do better than that.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much (as do you, Robert).

? ? ?
Jerry?
I do admit I might get heated every now and than but I never compared myself to an intellectual or even thought of myself as formerly educated.

I give credit were credit is due.

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 03:41 PM

InterNACHI has the best training school for home inspectors: https://www.nachi.org/school/

Raymond Wand

12-29-2016, 03:42 PM

Robert Sheppard

12-29-2016, 03:52 PM

Heard it many times, Ray.
All the trash talk as well.:pop2:

I just wonder why intellectuals talk like children, make up names, and gang up on defenceless girls.
Hope you see my point.:confused:

Kinda childish but I guess the difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys and the games they play.

Best.

Who ganged up on you?

(couldn't help myself;))

ROBERT YOUNG

12-29-2016, 04:05 PM

Who ganged up on you?

(couldn't help myself;))

Never implied myself.
(I realize you can't);)
No hard feeling.

Jerry Peck

12-29-2016, 04:11 PM

Only 11 more posts to go and this thread will turn into a 100 post thread - this is my last post (if I can resist) on this thread ... let's not allow this useless continuation reach the 100 post mark.

:deadhorse:

ROBERT YOUNG

12-29-2016, 04:36 PM

Robert,

No offence intended, however...

Lisa is here because she has been told she has to be here. She is representing and selling Nachi and as such her continued use of this forum is it appears for recruitment and marketing purposes.

The other purpose of Lisa here is to ensure Nachi receives hits on all those links we see in the replies. Its all about the hits.

None of the other players (associations) ply their wares here full of links.

If I spoke harshly to Lisa I apologize for doing so since I do not have the patience of a saint. ;)

Best,
Happy New Year!

With all due respect, Lisa is very intelligent.
I suspect she comes here on her own.
Nick does not keep members or employees on a leash, nor does he have to.
You should know that Raymond. Roy Cooke is very outspoken.

Lisa represents herself as a true professional and always has.
Give credit where credit is due.

So you do not like marketing, things should be different, you wish you could make it better.
All I can say is, give it a try and keep us posted.
I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q29u0WCiCUQ) Just share.:)

I pointed this out before, and I will do so again. From the best of my recollection, >< 61 years on this earth, parents and students alike beat down the doors to have their sons, daughters or themselves educated by the best and are willing to paying the top dollar, or not, to be educated by the best.

Association memberships number reflect what they offer, or lack thereof.
But when state and provincial governments recognise your education, standard of practice, and COE, and give it the stamp of approval for licensing, then I say that's good enough for me.

That is not fact nor proof, but evidence that InterNACHI is doing something right.

Happy New Year.
All the Very Best as always.

Garry Sorrells

12-29-2016, 04:38 PM

Nick reached out to Brian and offered to come here and answer any question anyone asked if Brian would make a separate section for him. Maybe that will happen.

Happy New Year.

Without any reservations, I HOPE NOT.

It is notable that Lisa nor Nick make any posts on any other forums except their own.

Garry Sorrells

12-29-2016, 04:54 PM

With all due respect, Lisa is very intelligent.
I suspect she comes here on her own.
Nick does not keep members or employees on a leash, nor does he have to.
You should know that Raymond. Roy Cooke is very outspoken.

Lisa represents herself as a true professional and always has.
Give credit where credit is due.

.....................

Robert, regretfully, you seem to have the kool aid mentality on what "true professionalism" really means.

Your concept of "intelligence" seems to be greatly divergent than mine, again it may be that kool aid mentality at work that fogs your perceptions.

Garry Sorrells

12-29-2016, 05:07 PM

Jim Mosiuk

12-29-2016, 09:42 PM

Is there a prize for getting it to 100

LOL

Lisa Endza

12-29-2016, 11:50 PM

It is notable that Lisa nor Nick make any posts on any other forums except their own.

Is there a third? As of right now, InterNACHI's message board and InspectionNews are the two top forums:

#1: InterNACHI's message board: 1,572,899 posts made by 58,784 registered users.
#2: InspectionNews: 230,503 posts made by 9,495 registered users.

I'd hate to think of how small #3 is.

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 03:59 AM

Is there a prize for getting it to 100

LOL

What; no comment about all the Nacho bashing by others? :biggrin: But if this thread reaches critical mass maybe Nick will give you yet another free membership that you so desperately want and asked for on the Nacho forum. :biggrin: :dance:

LOL!

- - - Updated - - -

Is there a third? As of right now, InterNACHI's message board and InspectionNews are the two top forums:

#1: InterNACHI's message board: 1,572,899 posts made by 58,784 registered users.
#2: InspectionNews: 230,503 posts made by 9,495 registered users.

I'd hate to think of how small #3 is.

What; you don't have a link to send us to? Very disappointing. As Donald Trump would say, "you're fired!" :laugh:

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 04:17 AM

In an effort to take this worthless thread to the 100 post level.

I do ponder why Robert Y. and others that seem to put nachi on such an exalted pedestal of teaching, knowledge and professionalism; that they would bring their questions to this forum at all. how could us mere mortals be able to answer their questions? How could it be that we may have the answer that all of these free courses haven't provided?

From all of the nachi self aggrandizing that takes place I would think that they would feel abased in their association with this forum and its' members.

As I said, just a pondering thought.:confused:

Nothing really to ponder. I think Robert is passionate about his membership that is very obvious. Nothing wrong with passion. Actually Robert has been subjected to many taunts on the Nachi forum, unruly behaviour, COE violations, et cetera. And like many before him subjected to kangaroo discipline in the form of taunts and bullying.

I believe he is here to escape that lack of professionalism shown constantly and condoned by others who are frankly lacking in leadership. We help him build his confidence and help him along his path of inspecting.

Thats one major professional item lacking in Nacho, the proper vetting of complaints, the enforcement of the forum rules and the COE which are window dressing, and no proper due process as afforded by other associations rather than a marketing company.

I bet Lisa has nothing to say on this aspect after all what can one say when you have no recourse to defend that which is blatantly obvious. Links are not going to help with lack of professionalism. But then when did a marketing company ever concern itself with actual professional ethics, all talk no beef on that aspect.

Only when the bullies are being exposed do they suddenly realize that the open forum is not the place to misbehave, better to act a fool behind closed doors.

Well I guess we should top out at 1000 pretty soon. Anyone else want a kick at the can?

:clap2:

Happy New Year to all those detractors who don't love Raymond! ;)

Garry Sorrells

12-30-2016, 05:07 AM

I think Jerry mentioned getting to 100.

Is there a prize for getting it to 100

LOL

There hasn't been one in the past. Maybe we should initiate one.

Ginzu Knife, Veg-O-Matic or Ronco GLH Hair-in-a-Can come to mind.

Of course there has to be some criteria about the value of the thread.:boink:

Jerry Peck

12-30-2016, 05:17 AM

Nothing really to ponder. I think Robert is passionate about his membership that is very obvious. Nothing wrong with passion. Actually Robert has been subjected to many taunts on the Nachi forum, unruly behaviour, COE violations, et cetera. And like many before him subjected to kangaroo discipline in the form of taunts and bullying.

I believe he is here to escape that lack of professionalism shown constantly and condoned by others who are frankly lacking in leadership. We help him build his confidence and help him along his path of inspecting.

If that is the case, then why does Robert so adamantly defend Nick'so company?

As Spock would say "Illogical."

As (I forgot who said this, maybe the robot who accompanied Will Robinson?): "Does not compute."

Jim Mosiuk

12-30-2016, 05:22 AM

Ray

Your BFF offered a free membership and I accepted it, never did receive it but did not expect to either.

Happy New Year

Robert Sheppard

12-30-2016, 06:35 AM

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 08:22 AM

If that is the case, then why does Robert so adamantly defend Nick'so company?

As Spock would say "Illogical."

As (I forgot who said this, maybe the robot who accompanied Will Robinson?): "Does not compute."

Are you kidding? Robert doesn't have a choice, if he agrees with anything said here, he will be taken to task for sedition on his home forum. They are not a nice bunch over there.

There maybe other reasons, but then again I am not Robert so who knows why he would defend a marketing company.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-30-2016, 08:25 AM

You really need to ask yourself, is joining an home inspection association really necessary? I don’t belong to one. I have been a member of an association, even went so far as to be Legislative chairman and ran for President. Turned out to be nothing but smoke and mirrors. In my honest opinion, if you really want to be a good inspector (not a realtor brown-noser working for $300 inspections) you need specific education in the building codes. And not “online” courses where you sit in the living room eating a sandwich while the computer runs.
You are very astute and I agree. There are others avenues to becoming a home inspector. Unfortunately though, not everyone has free time at their disposal Examples, family, current job, and life.
Let's not forget, becoming a home inspector is only one part of becoming a successful business. As well, how many business fail as startups within a three year period.
Feel proud of your accomplishments. You are cut from a cloth many are not woven from nor have the ability of achieving. From my view, calling others forms of education or certifications not required or not advisable shows short sightedness from someone of your stature.

I joined my local and state level building officials’association. Costs me $75 a year for complete membership. I also attend hands-on training in my states building code. Heads and tails over any education you get at a home inspection organization…..trust me, I know some of the home inspectors who are instructors in our state, most don’t even have a background in construction. They make it up as they go along and for some reason home inspectors think it’s fact…..puzzling.
Too bad.
So sad.

My advice? Don’t join a home inspection association and get your training locally from building inspectors or via ICC inspection certs. Joining a home inspection association is wasted money if you ask me. $500 a year? Really? You can’t take the same courses over from year to year, although some have been caught doing it. Maybe if you need an inspection warrantee or guarantee,whatever it is, you shouldn’t be doing home inspections?
Joining home inspection association offers value. You are correct saying you don't have to join a home inspection association but that is dependant upon time and what is offered in your area.

In our state the home inspection license is the easiest to attain, and we have inacho to thank for that. Now every Tom, Dick, and Harry who was a shoe maker last week is a licensed home inspector now. As I tell all new home inspectors “if you really want to make good money, lose your home inspections license as fast as you can”. I learned that the hard way. After spending some time in Tallahassee, I quickly found out how our profession is viewed…..they think we are idiots. As soon as you tell anyone that you are a licensed home inspector, they roll their eyes and get that glazed over “another idiot who thinks he knows everything” look.
Why you blaming InterNACHI? Robert, please explain how did InterNACHI affected your state's licensing position and why you think InterNACHI educational platform is lacking.
As well, how come ASHI did not achieve this goal?

Inacho is the lord of the flies, it supports an entire cottage industry of realtor brown-nosing inspectors who know little to nothing about actual building practices. It’s dragging the entire industry down the tubes faster than fat collects on Jack Osbourne’s ankles. While we are licensed individually, we are dragged down together as an industry by realtor referral inspectors.
Why do you compare Lord of the Flies to InterNACHI? The premise of Lord of the Flies focuses on a group of boys stranded on an uninhabitable island. InterNACHI is not an island and the internet makes everyone accessible to it.
Realtors is another story. REA referrals are dragging the industry down. There should be a state by state movement to lobby for an (APL) at arm's length principle to be established then legislated in the residential real estate industry. It would not affect homes being sold. What it would do is remove all chances for conflicts of interest. I can not understand why inspectors begrudge others. Be happy you achieved success.

Think your realtor recommends you because you “are the best in your area”? Double your prices and find out exactly where you stand. If you did half the work you are doing now, but at twice the price, would that be bad?Trust me, your realtor recommended you because they know how to impeach your reports when you are either not around or during the inspection.
I agree.

The cost of a home inspection is dropping every day with no end in sight, and inacho can’t do anything to stop it because they promote it that way. Soon, a home inspector’s value will be next to zero. It’s already down to $150, with free insurance inspections, in Florida. The realtors are eating it up while we all pay the price…..and they can get “free CEU’s” too.
I know home inspectors in FLA doing well charging $350.00 and more. That would be $500 Canadian dollars or metric money.;) The idea is to market your skills and experience. If you can't seal the deal then learn.

There’s only one way to separate yourself and it takes experience, effort, and training. You can’t get experience in building “online” and you can’t get effort “online”.
That is a blanket statement. It depends upon the market. During buyers markets home inspectors do well. In a sellers markets the reverse happens. The market dictates the highs and lows in our industry.
Robert, think of this, all home inspectors under one free trade association able to lobby our needs state by states and province by province.

Nick took on Home Safe when industry giants would not dare. I heard lots of rumors, speculation, to down right poor comments about Nick Gromicko. Never really paid attention. Better things to do cast doubt on someone that has treated me with respect.

As expressed, marketing is a way of life now.
Think word of mouth will keep you alive in the internet age. Good luck. Keep us posted.

It is a pleasure meeting you.
Health, happiness and peace to you and your family this new year, Robert.
All the Best.
Best.
Robert

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 08:26 AM

Ray

Your BFF offered a free membership and I accepted it, never did receive it but did not expect to either.

Happy New Year

Pray tell what is BFF? I don't have a decoder ring.

Claude Lawrenson

12-30-2016, 08:54 AM

You really need to ask yourself, is joining an home inspection association really necessary? I don’t belong to one. I have been a member of an association, even went so far as to be Legislative chairman and ran for President. Turned out to be nothing but smoke and mirrors. In my honest opinion, if you really want to be a good inspector (not a realtor brown-noser working for $300 inspections) you need specific education in the building codes. And not “online” courses where you sit in the living room eating a sandwich while the computer runs.

I joined my local and state level building officials’association. Costs me $75 a year for complete membership. I also attend hands-on training in my states building code. Heads and tails over any education you get at a home inspection organization…..trust me, I know some of the home inspectors who are instructors in our state, most don’t even have a background in construction. They make it up as they go along and for some reason home inspectors think it’s fact…..puzzling.

My advice? Don’t join a home inspection association and get your training locally from building inspectors or via ICC inspection certs. Joining a home inspection association is wasted money if you ask me. $500 a year? Really? You can’t take the same courses over from year to year, although some have been caught doing it. Maybe if you need an inspection warrantee or guarantee,whatever it is, you shouldn’t be doing home inspections?

In our state the home inspection license is the easiest to attain, and we have inacho to thank for that. Now every Tom, Dick, and Harry who was a shoe maker last week is a licensed home inspector now. As I tell all new home inspectors “if you really want to make good money, lose your home inspections license as fast as you can”. I learned that the hard way. After spending some time in Tallahassee, I quickly found out how our profession is viewed…..they think we are idiots. As soon as you tell anyone that you are a licensed home inspector, they roll their eyes and get that glazed over “another idiot who thinks he knows everything” look.

Inacho is the lord of the flies, it supports an entire cottage industry of realtor brown-nosing inspectors who know little to nothing about actual building practices. It’s dragging the entire industry down the tubes faster than fat collects on Jack Osbourne’s ankles. While we are licensed individually, we are dragged down together as an industry by realtor referral inspectors.

Think your realtor recommends you because you “are the best in your area”? Double your prices and find out exactly where you stand. If you did half the work you are doing now, but at twice the price, would that be bad?Trust me, your realtor recommended you because they know how to impeach your reports when you are either not around or during the inspection.

The cost of a home inspection is dropping every day with no end in sight, and inacho can’t do anything to stop it because they promote it that way. Soon, a home inspector’s value will be next to zero. It’s already down to $150, with free insurance inspections, in Florida. The realtors are eating it up while we all pay the price…..and they can get “free CEU’s” too.

There’s only one way to separate yourself and it takes experience, effort, and training. You can’t get experience in building “online” and you can’t get effort “online”.

Good commentary, but as an educator I would not categorize ALL online learning as being depicted by what you stated. For the record I taught for over 25 years as a Professor in the Ontario Post-Secondary College architecture and engineering programs. I also delivered online training for another College specifically recognized as advanced training for home inspectors.

As one example we (my business interest) deliver online home inspector training to meet the "regulatory" standard for the Province of BC. It requires approximately 1/3rd of the course hours to be directed by the instructor and simply not your suggested delivery system. Through a variety of face-to-face personal delivery modalities one can go well beyond the post it and access it delivery modality of educational training. I studied and deliver through a number of professional attributes where online training must be interactive and engaging. It may take more work initially to set up, but it also meet the needs to fulfill true online adult education.

On the other side I also have taken several of those "other" online courses and completed those "unproctored" exams and quickly received credit for doing so. So I cannot fully disagree with your comments. But certainly not all online training falls into that state of delivery.

Now on the issue of "code courses", I also believe that the code courses are beneficial. But on the other side code courses provide at least in my opinion the fundamental minimum building standards. As a home inspector we are not at least in most every part of Canada, afforded the power or authority to act as the code enforcer. Again even in our courses we talk about that difference and certainly the benefit of code knowledge. We all know that the role of home inspector and municipal building inspector has clear lines of delineation. Albeit we do share some things in common.

Just my POV, on your post. Again thanks for offering your feedback on this discussion!
Cheers.....

Robert Sheppard

12-30-2016, 08:57 AM

You are very astute and I agree. There are others avenues to becoming a home inspector. Unfortunately though, not everyone has free time at their disposal Examples, family, current job, and life.
Let's not forget, becoming a home inspector is only one part of becoming a successful business. As well, how many business fail as startups within a three year period.
Feel proud of your accomplishments. You are cut from a cloth many are not woven from nor have the ability of achieving. From my view, calling others forms of education or certifications not required or not advisable shows short sightedness from someone of your stature.

Too bad.
So sad.

Joining home inspection association offers value. You are correct saying you don't have to join a home inspection association but that is dependant upon time and what is offered in your area.

Why you blaming InterNACHI? Robert, please explain how did InterNACHI affected your state's licensing position and why you think InterNACHI educational platform is lacking.
As well, how come ASHI did not achieve this goal?

Why do you compare Lord of the Flies to InterNACHI? The premise of Lord of the Flies focuses on a group of boys stranded on an uninhabitable island. InterNACHI is not an island and the internet makes everyone accessible to it.
Realtors is another story. REA referrals are dragging the industry down. There should be a state by state movement to lobby for an (APL) at arm's length principle to be established then legislated in the residential real estate industry. It would not affect homes being sold. What it would do is remove all chances for conflicts of interest. I can not understand why inspectors begrudge others. Be happy you achieved success.

I agree.

I know home inspectors in FLA doing well charging $350.00 and more. That would be $500 Canadian dollars or metric money.;) The idea is to market your skills and experience. If you can't seal the deal then learn.

That is a blanket statement. It depends upon the market. During buyers markets home inspectors do well. In a sellers markets the reverse happens. The market dictates the highs and lows in our industry.
Robert, think of this, all home inspectors under one free trade association able to lobby our needs state by states and province by province.

Nick took on Home Safe when industry giants would not dare. I heard lots of rumors, speculation, to down right poor comments about Nick Gromicko. Never really paid attention. Better things to do cast doubt on someone that has treated me with respect.

As expressed, marketing is a way of life now.
Think word of mouth will keep you alive in the internet age. Good luck. Keep us posted.

It is a pleasure meeting you.
Health, happiness and peace to you and your family this new year, Robert.
All the Best.
Best.
Robert

“After a thorough review of the HomeSafe patents by our legal team, we came to the conclusion that the HomeSafe patents are, in fact, valid,” said Nick Gromicko, president of InterNACHI. “We can find no evidence of prior art that has not been reviewed by the patent office, and all six patents are approved and in good standing with the USPTO. Therefore, we reached out in good faith to HomeSafe and negotiated on behalf of our membership and found that HomeSafe was more than willing to develop a reasonable license package that would protect InterNACHI members. We are pleased that we have structured an agreement that will immediately protect our members.”

Koolaid tastes great......

ROBERT YOUNG

12-30-2016, 09:10 AM

Are you kidding? Robert doesn't have a choice, if he agrees with anything said here, he will be taken to task for sedition on his home forum. They are not a nice bunch over there.

There maybe other reasons, but then again I am not Robert so who knows why he would defend a marketing company.

To be honest, Ray, Jerry, Garry, and members, its my choice.
I am not saying everything is perfect, but I am satisfied.
Good enough for me.:D

I am happy and will promote the association I am proud of belonging to when anyone passes disparaging remarks or attacks Lisa unfoundedly.

She brings up good points during her presentations.
If you do not have anything credible to counter with, other than disparaging names, comments and accusations, who's dispensing the kool-aid that many here appear to be drinking at InterNACHI's InspectionNews website? :confused:
All food for thought.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-30-2016, 09:34 AM

“After a thorough review of the HomeSafe patents by our legal team, we came to the conclusion that the HomeSafe patents are, in fact, valid,” said Nick Gromicko, president of InterNACHI. “We can find no evidence of prior art that has not been reviewed by the patent office, and all six patents are approved and in good standing with the USPTO. Therefore, we reached out in good faith to HomeSafe and negotiated on behalf of our membership and found that HomeSafe was more than willing to develop a reasonable license package that would protect InterNACHI members. We are pleased that we have structured an agreement that will immediately protect our members.”

Koolaid tastes great......

Never tasted it to tell you the truth.

You know why InterNACHI is litigating Home Safe owner Kevin Sugden?
Didn't think so.

I see you dispense the homemade product though, unless a settlement has been reached and the association members have not been informed...:confused:

Here is some free information. Free being the operative word.

InterNACHI is only going to settle if HomeSafe relinquishes the patents to InterNACHI. It is a condition of us dropping our lawsuits against the owner of HomeSafe (the Judge ruled that we were free to sue the owner personally).

I remember most of what transpired seeing I am a member in good standing and pay <$300 to renew yearly to which all becomes FREE after ten years.
CD courses are 4,000 just to enter. Hmm.

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 09:56 AM

After stripping away all the bla bla bla from Robert's post, I boiled it down to one lone piece of advice from him:

get your training locally from building inspectors or via ICC inspection certs.

Really? ICC? Where in the world would I find ICC approved courses? Do you know who offers ICC courses?

Wait! I found the largest provider of ICC courses. They have more ICC courses than any other provider.

Here is a link to them: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

:)

Robert Sheppard

12-30-2016, 10:09 AM

After stripping away all the bla bla bla from Robert's post, I boiled it down to one lone piece of advice from him:

Really? ICC? Where in the world would I find ICC approved courses? Do you know who offers ICC courses?

Wait! I found the largest provider of ICC courses. They have more ICC courses than any other provider.

Here is a link to them: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

:)

No, these ICC certs: Certified Code Safety Professional Exams | ICC (http://www.iccsafe.org/education-certification/certified-code-safety-professional-exams/)

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 10:21 AM

Robert S.

The reason I remain a member of ASHI is because we are likely going to be licenced sometime in 2017. One requirement that may be relevant are those who are currently members in good standing with an association will be grandfathered.

Otherwise as I have stated numerous times, my client surveys indicate that my clients chose me not because of my affiliation with any association, but because of my reputation and experience.

Best,

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 10:28 AM

Here you go all those of you who are to cheap to pay for your membership.

Lessening the profession one free membership at a time!

Home Inspection Report Software (http://www.bestinspectors.net/)

FREE InterNACHI Membership or $1,500 off CMI Certification

Free InterNACHI ($499 value) membership* or $1,500 off CMI Certification with any Inspection Report purchase!**

:pop2: :whoo:

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 10:42 AM

The reason I remain a member of ASHI is because we are likely going to be licenced sometime in 2017. One requirement that may be relevant are those who are currently members in good standing with an association will be grandfathered.

Otherwise as I have stated numerous times, my client surveys indicate that my clients chose me not because of my affiliation with any association, but because of my reputation and experience. And the last Canadian province to adopt licensing was Alberta and they grandfathered all the Certified Master Inspectors (CMIs) (http://www.certifiedmasterinspector.org), not ASHI which has almost no presence in Canada. Looks like you picked the wrong horse.

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 10:51 AM

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 11:06 AM

Better take a geography lesson I am not in Alberta, but Ontario. I wouldn't want to belong to half ass inspection marketing company, its beneath me, and InterNachi is not worthy.

The reason that CMI got approved in Alberta is because they (government) have to go with the minimum, lowest qualification, lowest denominator. That is not saying much in honour of Nacho.

OAHI represents ASHI in Ontario.

I give you credit for trying though.

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 11:16 AM

The reason that CMI got approved in Alberta is because they (government) haveCMI didn't just get approved... all Certified Master Inspectors (CMIs) (http://www.certifiedmasterinspector.org) got grandfathered for licensing.

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 11:22 AM

Face it... InterNACHI is the most approved inspection course provider on earth:

Alabama Building Commission. Initial approval in 2004. Alabama Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. Alaska Department of Business and Professional Licensing. Initial approval in 2008. Alaska Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2013. Alberta Government, Service Alberta. Initial approval in 2012. American Association of Radon Scientists and Technologists (AARST). Initial approval in 2014. American Council for Accredited Certification (ACAC). Initial approval in 2011. Arkansas Home Inspector Registration Board. Initial approval in 2014. Association of Real Estate License Law Officials (ARELLO). Initial approval in 2014. Building Performance Institute (BPI). Initial approval in 2012. California Bureau of Real Estate. Initial approval 2014. California Department of Pesticide Regulation. Initial approval in 2009. Chimney Safety Institute of America (CSIA). Initial approval in 2015. City of Toledo. Initial approval in 2009. Clemson University. Initial approval in 2009. Colorado Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies, Division of Real Estate. Initial approval in 2014. Connecticut Home Inspector Licensing Board. Initial approval in 2008. Delaware Board of Home Inspectors. Initial approval in 2013. Delaware Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Delaware Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2013. Delaware State Housing Authority. Initial approval in 2007. District of Columbia Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. Dubai government. Initial approval in 2015. ENERGY STAR. Initial approval in 2012. EPA Indoor airPlus. Initial approval in 2012. Florida Construction Industries Licensing Board (CILB). Initial approval in 2011. Florida DBPR Mold-Related Services. Initial approval in 2012. Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation (DBPR). Initial approval in 2009. Florida Department of Education Division of Rehabilitation. Initial approval in 2015. Florida Department of Financial Services. Initial approval in 2013. Georgia Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Georgia Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2016. Hawaii Real Estate Branch, Professional and Vocational Licensing Division. Initial approval in 2015. Idaho Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Idaho Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2016. Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation. Initial approval in 2012. Illinois Emergency Management Agency. Initial approval in 2016. Indiana Professional Licensing Agency. Initial approval in 2008. Indiana Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2016. International Code Council (ICC). Initial approval in 2015. International Distance Education Certification Center (IDECC). Initial approval in 2014. Iowa Department of Health. Initial approval in 2014. Iowa Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2015. Kansas Department of Health and Environment, Radiation Control Program. Initial approval in 2014. Kentucky Public Protection Cabinet Office of Occupations and Professions Board of Home Inspectors. Initial approval in 2009. Louisiana State Board of Home Inspectors. Initial approval in 2010. Maine Department of Agriculture, Food & Rural Resources. Initial approval in 2009. Maine Division of Environmental Health Radon Section. Initial approval in 2014. Maine Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2015. Maryland Department of Agriculture, Office of Plant Industries and Pest Management. Initial approval in 2009. Maryland Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation: Commission of Real Estate Appraisers, Appraisal Management Companies, and Home Inspectors. Initial approval in 2013. Massachusetts Division of Professional Licensure. Initial approval 2008. Massachusetts Department of Agricultural Resources. Initial approval in 2009. Massachusetts Health and Human Services. Initial approval in 2014. Michigan Department of Labor & Economic Growth. Initial approval in 2008. Michigan Department of Licensing & Regulatory Affairs (LARA). Initial approval in 2014. Michigan Governor's Office, Michigan Saves Program. Initial approval in 2014. Mississippi Home Inspector Board. Initial approval in 2008. Mississippi Real Estate Commission. Initial approval of 2013. Missouri Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2008. Montana Board of Realty Regulation. Initial approval in 2015. Montana Department of Labor and Industry, Business Standards Division. Initial approval in 2008. Mountain Metro Association of REALTORs. Initial approval in 2007. National Environmental Health Association (NEHA). Initial approval in 2010. National Radon Proficiency Program (NRPP). Initial approval in 2014. Nebraska Department of Public Health, Office of Environmental Health Hazards & Indoor Air. Initial approval in 2014. Nebraska Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. Nevada Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Nevada Department of Health and Human Services. Initial approval in 2014. Nevada Real Estate Division. Initial approval in 2013. New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services (NHDES) Radon Program. Initial approval in 2014. New Hampshire Home Inspector Licensing Board. Initial approval in 2013. New Hampshire Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2013. New Jersey Office of the Attorney General, Home Inspection Advisory Committee. Initial approval in 2008. New Jersey Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2015. New Mexico Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. New York Department of State Division of Licensing Services. Initial approval in 2015. New York Division of Licensing. Initial approval in 2016. New Zealand Real Estate Agents Authority. Initial approval in 2014. North Carolina Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. North Carolina Home Inspector Licensing Board. Initial approval in 2014. North Dakota Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. North Dakota Secretary of State Home Inspector Program. Initial approval in 2006. OACIQ. Initial approval in 2015. Ohio Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Ohio Department of Commerce, Division of Real Estate and Professional Licensing. Initial approval in 2014. Ohio Department of Health. Initial approval in 2014. Oklahoma Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Oklahoma Department of Environmental Quality Radon Program. Initial approval in 2014. Oklahoma Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2013. Oklahoma State Department of Health, Occupational Licensing Division, Construction Industries Board, Home Inspector Examiners. Initial approval in 2008. Oregon Construction Contractors Board. Initial approval in 2008. Oregon Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Oregon Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. Owens Corning Roofing. Initial approval in 2013. Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2014. Quebec Real Estate Brokerage Regulatory Organization. Initial approval in 2014. Rhode Island Department of Business Regulation. Initial approval in 2014. Rhode Island Department of Health. Initial approval in 2014. Rhode Island Division of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2014. South Carolina Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation, Residential Builders Commission. Initial approval in 2010. South Carolina Department of Pesticide Regulation. Initial approval in 2009. South Carolina Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2015. South Dakota Department of Labor and Regulation, Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2008. South Dakota Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. Tennessee Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance Division of Regulator Boards, Home Inspector Licensing Program. Initial approval in 2009. Tennessee Radon Program. Initial approval in 2014. Tennessee Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. Texas Professional Real Estate Inspectors Association (TPREIA). Initial approval in 2008. Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC). Initial approval in 2008. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Initial approval in 2011. U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). Initial approval in 2013. U.S. Department of Energy Better Buildings Residential Network training provider. Initial approval in 2015. Utah Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Utah Department of Commerce, Division of Real Estate. Initial approval in 2014. Vermont Agency of Agriculture, Food & Markets. Initial approval in 2009. Vermont Department of Health. Initial approval in 2014. Vermont Office of Professional Regulation for Home Inspector Licensing. Initial approval in 2014. Virginia Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation, Board for Asbestos, Lead, Mold, and Home Inspectors. Initial approval in 2011. Virginia Housing Development Authority. Initially added in 2015 Washington Department of Licensing. Initial approval in 2010. Washington State Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Washington State Department of Health. Initial approval in 2014. West Virginia Office of the State Fire Marshall. Initial approval in 2008. West Virginia Radiation, Toxics & Indoor Air Division. Initial approval in 2014. West Virginia Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2014. Wisconsin Department of Health Services. Initial approval in 2014. Wisconsin Department of Safety and Professional Services. Initial approval in 2008. Wyoming Department of Agriculture. Initial approval in 2009. Wyoming Department of Health. Initial approval in 2014. Wyoming Real Estate Commission. Initial approval in 2015.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-30-2016, 12:14 PM

CMI didn't just get approved... all Certified Master Inspectors (CMIs) (http://www.certifiedmasterinspector.org) got grandfathered for licensing.

Doesn't matter how many times I say it, Lisa. I even get one Alberta home inspector that was involved with the provincial licensing saying, "I do not know how that got done. Vern was not pushing the CMI. He was just trying to insure InterNACHI members sat at the table during regulation and licensing talks." It appeared at one point franchises were about to be the only way to be employed. Vern Mitchinson and the 13 Alberta InterNACHI members instituted change through hard work and bias as others dispensed koolaid.
InterNACHI members did this of their own free will so the home inspection community could work independently and not have work in bondage through franchises.

Bloody koolaid pederalars been around since I became involved/an involved InterNACHI member, back in 2010. I watched and listened on MB as I shopped around for my third educator. InterNACHI seemed to have everything I wanted including "paid for ancillary courses." As well, I am the only Quebec member that paid for his CMI if I recall. Marcel Gratton maybe another. You will have to confirm that with/through him.

I do not begrudge any members that had won the CMI awarded freely. Why would I?
Some are given the designation as an award for helping the association or the being a pillar in the inspection community as a whole. Bravo I say.
They give free doctorates and other educational achievements all the time don't they?
Free does not mean without substance. It means you have been recognised and that money is now yours to do as you wish.

When governments institute educational recognition, that is an achievement.
Lisa, I sent in a request to have Vern Mitchinson recognised. I hope this does not go/get overlooked. See if you can look into this please. Vern is now retired but I will bring up his contribution every chance I get. Another of Vern's achievements, proctoring members through CMI's or through libraries or educational centers. A great InterNACHI member. InterNACHI use to get put down because of inline course tests. If someone wants to cheat in class they will.

All the best Lisa.
PS: Tell Nick he does not have to send me my cheque for promoting InterNACHI on InpectionNews. Tell him to use the money to allow someone else to be a CMI.;)
Gees Louse. Koolaid. What next?

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 12:18 PM

Nick also credits Vern for that legislative success in Canada that grandfathered all the CMIs.

Robert Sheppard

12-30-2016, 12:30 PM

Robert, I'm pleased to see that you have so much respect for ICC-approved courses. InterNACHI offers 70 of them and InterNACHI is the largest provider of ICC-approved courses: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

It appears you prefer the courses about code. You do realize that most defects found by home inspectors are on systems and components installed to code. For example, most plumbing leaks occur in plumbing that is up to code.

It's one thing to walk through new construction before it is occupied and before time, use, abuse and weather has taken its toll over many years. It's quite another to inspect a 40-year old home that has many issues unrelated to code.

LOL.....you're doing it again. You know, that thing were you comment on something you are not qualified, trained, or educated to comment on.

There were no building codes in Florida in 1976? If you had the slightest idea what you were talking about you would know that Florida adopted the SBC as a uniform building code in 1974.....42 years ago.

Dade and Broward counties adopted a uniform building code (the countries first engineered building code), the South Florida Building Code, in 1957....59 years ago. I have copies of both if you need.

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 12:34 PM

Robert Sheppard

12-30-2016, 12:52 PM

Who said anything about Florida? Again, regardless of what state or province you are in, most defects found on home inspections are not code violations. They are just stuff that wore out, blew off, broke, got damaged, leaked, or just got old. We live in a world where everything, even systems and components installed to code, get old and fail.

You're doing it AGAIN.....

I would love to discuss home inspections with you, but as previously stated, you are not qualified.

It's nothing personal, I'm sure you're a canny lass, just not qualified to comment in the field of home inspections unfortunately.

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 01:39 PM

Robert Y. wrote in part:
They give free doctorates and other educational achievements all the time don't they?
Free does not mean without substance. It means you have been recognised and that money is now yours to do as you wish.

Background noise - car tires screeching.

Free doctorates are a courtesy designation, as such it's not a licence to practice medicine.

Ditto home inspector freebie licences. Many CMi's where given out with no conditions. Since no one other than the grantee knows the truth whether he/she is qualified or not the public is left with only marketing hype, and that is not an assurance of anything, legally speaking.

Background noise - car tires screeching yet again...
Its also been disclosed that CMI doesn't have an audit process, this was confirmed by Nick himself.

Best,

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 01:46 PM

Robert S.

You do realize you are not talking to a real PR person, right? More like the postal lady, who is only delivering the message.

Dealing with Lisa you will develop, if not already, a flat spot on your forehead from perpetually banging your head against a wall. This is not only because Lisa is told to post, but because she is an expert on ... well anything that she is trying to articulate. More links, more nothingness, more links... :frusty:

It has been reported that not only is Lisa a PR director, but the person in charge of the Kool Aid water cooler. Personally I think she is taking more than the prescribed dose and has repeatedly shown that she has OD on it by her overuse of meaningless links and double talk. Typical for a comatose OD patient. :laugh:

Now back to more links, spam and sausages.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-30-2016, 02:41 PM

Robert Y. wrote in part:

Background noise - car tires screeching.

Free doctorates are a courtesy designation, as such it's not a licence to practice medicine.

Ditto home inspector freebie licences. Many CMi's where given out with no conditions. Since no one other than the grantee knows the truth whether he/she is qualified or not the public is left with only marketing hype, and that is not an assurance of anything, legally speaking.

Background noise - car tires screeching yet again...
Its also been disclosed that CMI doesn't have an audit process, this was confirmed by Nick himself.

Best,

Never said they were.
No twisting the words I wrote to suite your narrative, Ray. That's dispensing kool-aid to the thirsty want to believe.
What they are is a recognition for achievements by a society, educator, group of third party community members, etc.

Let's look at Free Doctorate or doctorate program. (When a doctoral program indicates that they provide full funding to their PhD students, in most cases this means they provide each admitted student full tuition.)
Does this mean their are not real doctors after? Please.

Now to be more precise, doctoral degree is an academic degree awarded by universities that is, in most countries, a research degree that qualifies the holder to teach at the university level in the degree's field, or to work in a specific profession.

Please, stop dispersing kool-aid throughout the crowd, Ray. Some might just believe and start to like it.
Poor souls. Too bad, so sad.

Let's get to NACHI education.
Worth the price of admission?
What would any of you pay to be granted full use of a program that prepares you to be a successful business. This includes legal advice, marketing brochures, business cards. logo's, website building, SEO, and all the education you could ever need to be a home inspector.

As for Lisa. Its her job and she performs it well. Gees, wish I had the good fortune as I bet we all do if you wish to become a multi inspection firm.

Please, just one of you discredit what she has provided with evidence.
I was going to use the word proof or facts but I felt I would keep the massage on tract.;)

I understand you do not like marketing or how the COE is conducted.
Lets brush that aside until later.
Verify what Lisa is saying is incorrect with evidence.

Garry Sorrells

12-30-2016, 03:06 PM

I think Jerry mentioned getting to 100.

There hasn't been one in the past. Maybe we should initiate one.

Ginzu Knife, Veg-O-Matic or Ronco GLH Hair-in-a-Can come to mind.

Of course there has to be some criteria about the value of the thread.:boink:

Ray

Your BFF offered a free membership and I accepted it, never did receive it but did not expect to either.

Happy New Year

Congratulations :applouse::applouse::applouse: to JIM MOSIUK for being the 100th person through the door to one of the most worthless thread discussions to come along in a long time.

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 03:25 PM

Robert Y. posted in part:

Let's get to NACHI education.
Worth the price of admission?
Oh, just off the cuff, I think it would be worth $499. But; that would only be the reason for joining. And for the record I have never to my knowledge scoffed at education.

What would any of you pay to be granted full use of a program that prepares you to be a successful business. This includes legal advice, marketing brochures, business cards. logo's, website building, SEO, and all the education you could ever need to be a home inspector.

Are you talking about a franchise home inspection deal? In that case I guess $40K+. Of course some probably maybe worth more due to their name, market share, profits, blah, blah. ..

As for Lisa. Its her job and she performs it well. Gees, wish I had the good fortune as I bet we all do if you wish to become a multi inspection firm.

Please, just one of you discredit what she has provided with evidence.
I was going to use the word proof or facts but I felt I would keep the massage on tract.

Evidence? Links linking back to a marketing website are not evidence that anything Lisa says is correct. The spokesperson is paid spokesperson not versed in home inspections. She can't deviate from the companies PR strategies. That would be suicide. Hence she would be fired.

Every answer from Lisa is the same, subjective, repetitive, double talk. Tow the line, tow the line. Put those links in there. Thats part of the game Robert the links, the links....

I understand you do not like marketing or how the COE is conducted.
Lets brush that aside until later.
Yes lets talk about the discipline process (COE) or lack there-of. One of my favourite subjects. :)

Verify what Lisa is saying is incorrect with evidence.

Okay; Lisa is incorrect about what she is posting. ;) Just look at her responses. She provides more questions than answers. And no, links do not count as evidence given how we know things operate or don't operate due to the fact it's private company and you can't believe everything a marketing company tells ya, eh?

Anyway Robert you are a good sod, and I enjoy the banter.

And in my opinion, given your state in life, you don't need Nachi to make you successful. From what I read you are accomplished and your reputation should be able to carry you without the drama of your associations and its affiliates. YOU, are your best marketing tool.

Best to you in the new year!

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 03:45 PM

And no, links do not count as evidence given how we know things operate or don't operate due to the fact it's private companyWhat makes you think InterNACHI is a private company?

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 03:54 PM

Its not a membership driven society. I am not sure what you call it state side. Perhaps the term is the members do not have share capital, but also no bylaws, financials, et ceteras that would embody a true association.

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 04:45 PM

Ray Wand writes:
the members do not have share capital, but also no bylaws, financials, et ceteras that would embody a true association.

the term is the members do not have share capitalYou couldn't be more wrong. Issuing shares would make it a for-profit company. InterNACHI never issued shares and isn't owned. It's a non-profit organization. Furthermore, it has also been granted federal tax exemption going all the way back to 2004. No other inspection association can claim that.

also no bylawsYou couldn't be more wrong again. It not only has bylaws, it voluntarily publishes them publicly online.

financialsYou couldn't be more wrong again. It not only has financial statements but is the only inspection association that publishes them publicly online. No other inspection association publishes their 990s publicly. Only InterNACHI does.

Anyway, you are wrong on all three counts again.

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 05:14 PM

Please post the links to bylaws and financials.

No voting rights for members got that. Check. And no right to appeals due to complaints. Got that. Check.

And how about the structure of the complaint process, and make up of that body and how external and internal complaints are dealt with?

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 05:44 PM

Please post the links to the tax exempt status, bylaws and financials.

But I thought you said they don't exist?

Here they are: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

ROBERT YOUNG

12-30-2016, 06:00 PM

Robert Y. posted in part:

Oh, just off the cuff, I think it would be worth $499. But; that would only be the reason for joining. And for the record I have never to my knowledge scoffed at education.
I have heard you say it is great educational platform.

Anyway Robert you are a good sod, and I enjoy the banter.

And in my opinion, given your state in life, you don't need Nachi to make you successful. From what I read you are accomplished and your reputation should be able to carry you without the drama of your associations and its affiliates. YOU, are your best marketing tool.

Best to you in the new year!

Learned alot from you Raymond. I could not be prouder knowing you and Mr. Cooke.

As for marketing, I concur.
I got some ideas that appear to work.
You know me, I am shy and say little.:laugh:

As well I give it everything I got. Clients deserve a real home inspection and not just minimum SoP.

Dam, when the yp.ca, Yellow pages, approached me to do an independent article, it damn near floored me. I still remember the editors words to this day. " If everything you are telling us is the truth, we will be happy to do it." 4 months later they called and I was being interviewed.

I still remember when the photographer came over to the home. I had not slept for days. Mother was acting up and we had been in the hospital several times that month. Gees Louise never knew how I got to work some days.
I had not shaved, it looked like I combed my hair with an egg beater and he by passed the mess, took about 40 shots and want along his way.
6 months later they ran the article.
Never looked back since then.

Had lots of help from homies all over North America.
David Snell from the Snell Experts not knowing me more than 6 months offered me a job few would say no to. Damn nice kind man.

Sure love this industry Ray. After 3.5 decades of repairing and building it sure takes a load off your mind.

Sure miss you at NACHI, but even I avoid the forums mostly and it looks like others are headed this way as well.

Happy New Years Everyone at InpectionNews.
YOU'RE THE BEST!

Raymond Wand

12-30-2016, 08:32 PM

But I thought you said they don't exist?

Here they are: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

Okay so your tax filing is public, but what about quarterly financial statements other than tax filings?

As to by-laws you haven't included any information so at this point they don't exist.

Also I gleaned this - Part 1 Summary - TO HELP ITS MEMBERS MAINTAIN
INSPECTION EXCELLENCE THROUGH INFORMATION AND EDUCATION. Okay nothing about issuing certifications, but marketing and education.

3. Number of voting members of the governing body (Part VI, line 1a) 2 Only two voting members! Members don't get a vote period.

Part 3 4 A - THE TAXPAYER PUBLISHES NEWSLETTERS, THE PURPOSE OF WHICH IS TO EDUCATE
HOME INSPECTORS ABOUT STANDARDS OF SAFETY, STRUCTURE AND IMPROVEMENT OF
PROPERTY WITH REGARDS TO THE HOME INSPECTION INDUSTRY. Again nothing about issuing any kind of certifications.

More links I need more links.

Lisa Endza

12-30-2016, 11:50 PM

Okay so your tax filing is public, but what about quarterly financial statements other than tax filings?We don't generate quarterly financial statements because we have no stockholders. Again, InterNACHI isn't owned. We do publish publicly our 990 annual statements.

As to by-laws you haven't included any information so at this point they don't exist. They are at the bottom of that page I gave you. Next to the last link from the bottom: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

Also I gleaned this - Part 1 Summary - TO HELP ITS MEMBERS MAINTAIN
INSPECTION EXCELLENCE THROUGH INFORMATION AND EDUCATION. Okay nothing about issuing certifications, but marketing and education.Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

3. Number of voting members of the governing body (Part VI, line 1a) 2 Only two voting members! Members don't get a vote period. No, they don't. Home inspectors have a different skill set than what is needed to make decisions about governing an international trade association. Pro Bowl NFL players likely don't have the skill set necessary to operate a football stadium either. ASHI and NAHI had large governing boards full of home inspectors and it didn't work out very well for them, did it? Besides, every member votes every year with his/her feet and dues. Each year, we have to work hard to win that vote and those dues. InterNACHI is proud to have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) in all of human history.

Part 3 4 A - THE TAXPAYER PUBLISHES NEWSLETTERS, THE PURPOSE OF WHICH IS TO EDUCATE HOME INSPECTORS ABOUT STANDARDS OF SAFETY, STRUCTURE AND IMPROVEMENT OF
PROPERTY WITH REGARDS TO THE HOME INSPECTION INDUSTRY. Again nothing about issuing any kind of certifications.Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. We certainly educate our members. We have hundreds of free courses: Free Inspector Training and Education Courses - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/education) approved by hundreds of government agencies: InterNACHI's inspection courses and exams are the most recognized, approved and accredited in the inspection industry. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/approved) And this year, we made Free Live, Online Classes for Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.tv) free to all inspectors, not just members. So we definitely provide what we agreed to provide our members. So we're perfectly free to offer more if we choose. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

InterNACHI essentially delivers each member an entire 24/7 pizza shop. I'm quite certain that these people: Good people working every day to help your inspection business succeed. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/staff) produce more each day than any member can consume.

More links I need more links.www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm has a lot of links describing what is going on at InterNACHI. www.nachi.org/benefits has a lot of links to our membership benefits.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 04:17 AM

Ha ha ha.
Satisfied Ray?

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 04:33 AM

Lisa, who are the directors?

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 05:33 AM

Thanks Lisa,

Didn't see the by-law link cause I didn't go down to bottom of page - duh.

I see now what I suspected. The members have no say and no rights. The corporate by-laws are just that. Corporate provisions. Nothing in the by-laws protecting members rights only corporate governance. Nothing in there giving members anything. No rights, screw you, we will determine solely how things run and if you don't like it go join a proper functioning member driven professional association.

Since InterNachi is a marketing company, you are correct, members don't need rights. Professional associations are established for the good of the corporation and state what and how the biz is to be carried out, but also enshrine members in good standing to have certain rights.

Those by-laws do not enshrine any member rights, no policies. Every professional association I have been part of has a complete set of by-laws structured to ensure certain actions are carried out for the benefit of both members and the corporation, public facing ensuring the consumer is protected by the requirements for membership of the association.

Comparing members rights to voting with their membership doesn't quiet cut it. If they don't like what management says, 'too bad, quit'. While members have no rights the public can't be said to have any protection via the by-laws because there is no mention of rights and protection or what should transpire with complaints and how a discipline committee is set up and the rights and powers via bylaws to enact hearings, number of committee members, appeal process, et ceteras.

This explains exactly why members don't have any rights as to the management and conduct of the biz. Comparing the running of a professional association has nothing to do with the NFL.

Again it appears through your tax filings that things are run by two directors. Members have no rights again because Nachi is a marketing company, that is very, very clear.

Robert, you should never count the chicks before they hatch eh? ;)

Thanks for the info Lisa. Wishing you a Happy New Year!

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 05:36 AM

Ray,

You bad mouth InterNachi every chance you can. Do you really think Nick is going to tell you anything?

OntarioAchi IS the Ontario chapter of InterNachi and operates with the full support of Nick and InterNachi

Do you really think Nick would allow OntarioAchi allow them advertise that they are InterNachi if they were not?

Merry Xmas

Jim Mosiuk

Morning Jim.
Hope you are in good spirits today.

I am going to make two points. It will wander a bit, but worth the read.

1: Your PHPIC Free Membership, verbal or otherwise.
If you were promised something from PHPIC you should have brought it up with the sitting president. I would.
Jim, if that member had the authority to allow free memberships to be passed out in the association to whom he/she sees fit, it does not show good faith on the association's behalf to renege such offers.
That member can and should be held accountable either way. Dig in Jim.
You appear to be a level headed sort. Dig in and email Allan Spisak.

PHPIC. I get monthly emails from the PHPIC association. I think Alan is doing good/great things with the association and appears to be a real/bonafide stand up guy. Much needed by the association by the way.
Could not be happier.

Gilles Larin sat as interim PHPIC leader/president for a short time back in 2011 or 2012.
I think the association's then sitting president, Gees Louise his name slips my mind!!!!, but I certainly know his questionable marketing tactics offended me as well as many and he would disappear when hard questions were being asked. Hmm? They appeared to have momentum going on there side back in 2011 while pushing the National Standard...
That's another long story unto itself.:pop2:

Anywho, Gilles Larin made a move to act as interim president with hopes of being full time president next election. I emailed Gilles and warned him in advance that dispersions maybe cast upon him because the association appeared to be in flux and whose shoes he appeared to be filling maybe tied to him.
I did my part to only to see Gilles making a move 0ver the next few months to become "full time InterNACHI member" in 2011 after starting a Quebec chapter that remained members up until last year while he pushed forward to have InterNACHI provincially recognised through the regulatory body of real estate brokers, the OACIQ.

As you know, Gilles Larin won InterNACHI/Nick gromicko member of the year "yet almost every InterNACHI member that visits the MB regularly, about >< 100 or so members, does not know whom he is." Hmm?
Oh well. I know whom I voted for.

2: Raymond disgruntled attitude with INACHI and dispensing kool-aid.
Sorry Ray. I had to use the kool-aid analogy. As you know I can help myself unlike others.;)

Early days. Ray and Roy were boosting InterNACHI membership throughout Ontario. Yes Jim. They were talking to many about this new association. Both had seen how OAHI operates from within the association.
Roy Cooke junior was acting president at one time. Roy and Ray are best of friends and it does not get closer than that.

The deal: It has to deal with the association ethics rules, or lack thereof, the defined ethics structure, and the associations, ESOP committee chair/cofounder, if still, Joe Farsetta.

The Sting: Roy and Ray were falsely (put on suspension) by a kangaroo court.
Nick is now in charge.

Roy Cooke never wavered throughout turbulent times.
Ray bailed and did not fight to get back in as he should have.

Ray believes the ESOP committee and the committee chair did not act responsibly.
Roy can back this up knowing they both had done nothing wrong.
I was not there at that time but know the ESOP chair was then very bias and used coarse rude language many times. I think it is his working within the commercial construction industry, but that is no excuse.

When I arrive: In March 2010 Roy was being piled on by every destructive member at InterNACHI, about 12 to 15 in all back then, every time he went to the MB. They brought friends.
I was just posting and answering threads. I came to Mr. Roy Cooke's defence right away. I was wondering, "what the hell this poor guy getting an ass whooping for all the time." He acted in good faith, proved himself over and over, time and time again, acted as a professional every time, did not use foul language, was factual, outwitted & outmaneuvered those halfwits cohorts, yes bloody halfwits, every time, which made them even more volatile.
Very credible, very ethical man. damn proud to know him and that he reached out to me. Could not be more proud!

Ray made several return appearances but did not stand his ground. I helped when I could, as did Roy Cooke, but man it not easy and I know full well. ray should have moved in slowly and stayed away from the MB with his eyes fixed sitting on and becoming a committee chair where he could do the most good.

We (3) have been friends ever since. Best choice in friends I have ever made as a new kid on the block!
More to it than that Jim but that's the short version of the Ray, Roy & Robert story in a nutshell. The condensed version.

Pretty good summary Ray?

I tells it as I sees it. That's my take on it anyway.

As for kool-aid. Seen the sponsors and dispensers every since I joined InterNACHI. The thing they can't understand, Math Does Not Lie, the real numbers, and resistance is futile.;)

All the best in the new year, Jim.
You never know Jim, I might be filling a vacant position at OntioACHI and be able to dispel you officially.
Always best to be on the my good side. Ha ha ha.
Gilles knows what I mean.;)

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 05:51 AM

Robert, I'm pleased to see that you have so much respect for ICC-approved courses. InterNACHI offers 70 of them and InterNACHI is the largest provider of ICC-approved courses: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

It appears you prefer the courses about code. You do realize that most defects found by home inspectors are on systems and components installed to code. For example, most plumbing leaks occur in plumbing that is up to code.

It's one thing to walk through new construction before it is occupied and before time, use, abuse and weather has taken its toll over many years. It's quite another to inspect a 40-year old home that has many issues unrelated to code.

The American Wood Council offers 71 ICC approved courses and are a "ICC Preferred Education Provider". I don't even see inacho listed as a Preferred Provider (ASHI is listed though).......you can access it here: Scheduled Courses (http://ppp.iccsafe.org/index.php?option=com_iccppp&view=courses&layout=viewcourses&Itemid=102)

Click on the dropdown box "select provider".

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 06:16 AM

We don't generate quarterly financial statements because we have no stockholders. Again, InterNACHI isn't owned. We do publish publicly our 990 annual statements.

They are at the bottom of that page I gave you. Next to the last link from the bottom: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

No, they don't. Home inspectors have a different skill set than what is needed to make decisions about governing an international trade association. Pro Bowl NFL players likely don't have the skill set necessary to operate a football stadium either. ASHI and NAHI had large governing boards full of home inspectors and it didn't work out very well for them, did it? Besides, every member votes every year with his/her feet and dues. Each year, we have to work hard to win that vote and those dues. InterNACHI is proud to have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) in all of human history.

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. We certainly educate our members. We have hundreds of free courses: Free Inspector Training and Education Courses - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/education) approved by hundreds of government agencies: InterNACHI's inspection courses and exams are the most recognized, approved and accredited in the inspection industry. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/approved) And this year, we made Free Live, Online Classes for Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.tv) free to all inspectors, not just members. So we definitely provide what we agreed to provide our members. So we're perfectly free to offer more if we choose. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

InterNACHI essentially delivers each member an entire 24/7 pizza shop. I'm quite certain that these people: Good people working every day to help your inspection business succeed. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/staff) produce more each day than any member can consume.

www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm (http://www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm) has a lot of links describing what is going on at InterNACHI. www.nachi.org/benefits (http://www.nachi.org/benefits) has a lot of links to our membership benefits.

That's not completely accurate.......there have been many ex-players who are now and have been actual team owners. Here's a list:

Mike Illitch
Jerry Richardson
Dale Hunter
Venus & Serena Williams
Warrick Dunn
Oscar De La Hoya
LeBron James
Mario Lemieux
Nolan Ryan
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson

Skillset is subjective and dependent on the individual in question. Case in point, can you name how many actors are verifiable geniuses with an IQ above 135? Using statistics that are based on non-verifiable information is both irresponsible and unprofessional.

As I have said, you are commenting in a field that you are neither qualified or educated to comment on. It's nothing personal, just a fact.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 06:30 AM

Robert, I'm pleased to see that you have so much respect for ICC-approved courses. InterNACHI offers 70 of them and InterNACHI is the largest provider of ICC-approved courses: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

It appears you prefer the courses about code. You do realize that most defects found by home inspectors are on systems and components installed to code. For example, most plumbing leaks occur in plumbing that is up to code.

It's one thing to walk through new construction before it is occupied and before time, use, abuse and weather has taken its toll over many years. It's quite another to inspect a 40-year old home that has many issues unrelated to code.

Did you come to this conclusion based on your extensive experience as a home inspector, or did you just make it up? I can tell you this, over 98% of the defects I find, no matter the age of the home, can be directly attributed to an installation that was either originally or currently not to code. The other 2% is typically service life related......

Would 98% be considered "most"?

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 06:40 AM

Did you come to this conclusion based on your extensive experience as a home inspector, or did you just make it up? I can tell you this, over 98% of the defects I find, no matter the age of the home, can be directly attributed to an installation that was either originally or currently not to code. The other 2% is typically service life related......

Would 98% be considered "most"?

Now to be fair Robert, you admitted you were not a home inspector per say.
Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

Give Lisa time to comb her lovely hair, get something to eat, and check in with the office.
She will answer all your questions.
By the looks of things you are chomping at the bit to be proven wrong again, but I could be wrong saying that.

:pop2:I will peak in every now and then to see what transpires between you two and see who dispenses kool-aid, and whom provides facts.

All the best.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 06:42 AM

Now to be fair Robert, you admitted you were not a home inspector per say.
Let's compare apples to apples, shall we?

Give Lisa time to comb her lovely hair, get something to eat, and check in with the office.
She will answer all your questions.
By the looks of things you are chomping at the bit to be proven wrong again, but I could be wrong saying that.

:pop2:I will peak in every now and then to see what transpires between you two and see who dispenses kool-aid, and whom provides facts.

All the best.

I'm a licensed Home inspector......seems like you pull your facts from the same apple tree Lisa does.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 07:02 AM

I'm a licensed Home inspector......seems like you pull your facts from the same apple tree Lisa does.

Gees Louise. Do you ever stop?
Oh that right, you openly admitted you can't help yourself.
No worries.

Well Robert, if I am wrong I will admit it. I make mistakes. But I thought I read were you told Lisa you were not a home inspector.

I will review the string and be back.

Best.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 07:11 AM

I'm a licensed Home inspector......seems like you pull your facts from the same apple tree Lisa does.

Just because you are a "licensed home inspector" does not mean you inspect home for a living per say.
As well, you post to Lisa staes, "Robert Sheppard (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/robert-sheppard.html) replied to a thread Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI? (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-and-commercial-inspectors/47400-home-inspection-association-should-i-join-ashi-internachi.html) in Associations, Ethics, Standards, Licensing, Legislation:Home Inspectors & Commercial Inspectors (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-and-commercial-inspectors/)I hate to state the obvious here, but you do realize you're having a discussion with someone who knows nothing about Home Inspections, is not a..."

Yes. I recognize you even though we have not meet.
Aren't you one of those idealist home inspectors dispensing kool-aid that loves using those hand picked narratives, while some may agree others not?

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 07:17 AM

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 07:27 AM

We don't generate quarterly financial statements because we have no stockholders. Again, InterNACHI isn't owned. We do publish publicly our 990 annual statements.

They are at the bottom of that page I gave you. Next to the last link from the bottom: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

No, they don't. Home inspectors have a different skill set than what is needed to make decisions about governing an international trade association. Pro Bowl NFL players likely don't have the skill set necessary to operate a football stadium either. ASHI and NAHI had large governing boards full of home inspectors and it didn't work out very well for them, did it? Besides, every member votes every year with his/her feet and dues. Each year, we have to work hard to win that vote and those dues. InterNACHI is proud to have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) in all of human history.

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. We certainly educate our members. We have hundreds of free courses: Free Inspector Training and Education Courses - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/education) approved by hundreds of government agencies: InterNACHI's inspection courses and exams are the most recognized, approved and accredited in the inspection industry. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/approved) And this year, we made Free Live, Online Classes for Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.tv) free to all inspectors, not just members. So we definitely provide what we agreed to provide our members. So we're perfectly free to offer more if we choose. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

InterNACHI essentially delivers each member an entire 24/7 pizza shop. I'm quite certain that these people: Good people working every day to help your inspection business succeed. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/staff) produce more each day than any member can consume.

www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm (http://www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm) has a lot of links describing what is going on at InterNACHI. www.nachi.org/benefits (http://www.nachi.org/benefits) has a lot of links to our membership benefits.

I guess that depends on what your definition of success is? Inacho is the largest "trade association" now? ASHI has been around since 1976, 14 years before inacho was even a thought, and they maintained the largest membership for how many years before inacho?

Exactly how many years have you been the largest "trade association"?

As for your membership renewal rate, I personally know of 5 individuals that actually had to request to be removed from your membership.......they NEVER paid to renew. Are these non-paying "members" part of that figure? I bet they are.

And to finish, you are aware that their are many other trade associations? For example, the NAHB is listed as a "trade association with over 140,000 members". How many members does inacho have again....remind me.....?

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 07:34 AM

Just because you are a "licensed home inspector" does not mean you inspect home for a living per say.
As well, you post to Lisa staes, "Robert Sheppard (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/robert-sheppard.html) replied to a thread Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI? (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-and-commercial-inspectors/47400-home-inspection-association-should-i-join-ashi-internachi.html) in Associations, Ethics, Standards, Licensing, Legislation:Home Inspectors & Commercial Inspectors (http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/associations-ethics-standards-licensing-legislation-home-inspectors-and-commercial-inspectors/)I hate to state the obvious here, but you do realize you're having a discussion with someone who knows nothing about Home Inspections, is not a..."

Yes. I recognize you even though we have not meet.
Aren't you one of those idealist home inspectors dispensing kool-aid that loves using those hand picked narratives, while some may agree others not?

Naaaa, I'm just a Home Inspector with an actual background in construction......33 years. But I understand your thought process.....kinda.

I'm just a Home Inspector, plain and simple. I'm "idealist" to those who can't defend themselves with facts and verifiable information......that's something you get from years of being in the construction industry and actually building homes.

There are many of us, more than you think. An entire subculture of Home inspectors who are actually experts in the field.....court verified experts.

Without even knowing it, you have had a conversation with one of the best Home Inspectors in the world right here on this very forum.....would you know who?

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 07:43 AM

Going back to the financials and giving time for Lisa to comb hair, do nails, pick out clothes for the day and not to mention like most women a nice pair of shoes .... and matching purse, with matching change purse/wallet, and some trinket jewelry and some nice cologne. Oh and not us not forget she still has to do the other chores associated with women, you know cooking, cleaning those pesky domestic chores... :blah: :applouse:

Ray, In poor taste.

Let's compare business strategies on a presidential level.

I see/invision InterNACHI marketing professional, Lisa, as personally hand picked women able to make decisions on the association's behalf.

What I enjoy, InterNACHI EMPLOYEES. Diversified by gender, race and creed.
All professionals excelling at what they do.

Look at Trumps team. The best of the swamp. Older white males many of which caused the financial meltdown and trickle down economics...

[QUOTE=Raymond Wand;271046]I see that Ms. L. has a 40 hour work week and remunerated very well. Guess Lisa will be billing overtime considering how much time it takes to post link backs, and pulling all the info and putting correct spin on the information. I think she should be getting at minimum time and a half $.

Happy New Year!

The devil made me do it. :)
I know.

PS: I think she is awarded handsomely for any work above and beyond.
Nick is well known for treating employees with respect.
Many have been awarded graciously.
Criss the brains behind InterNACHI's IT for one. Joe Farsetta another.
Nick's good friend Nathan Thornberry another.

Raymond, that's not like you. You enjoy using facts.

Garry Sorrells

12-31-2016, 08:08 AM

Mr. Young (less tobe confused with the Roberts)
Kinda hate to break into your love fest, but still a pondering.

Would you say that you are a product of the nachi training system/offerings ?

Garry Sorrells

12-31-2016, 08:14 AM

[QUOTE=Raymond Wand;271046]Going back to the financials and giving time for Lisa to comb hair, do nails, pick out clothes for the day and not to mention like most women a nice pair of shoes .... and matching purse, with matching change purse/wallet, and some trinket jewelry and some nice cologne. Oh and not us not forget she still has to do the other chores associated with women, you know cooking, cleaning those pesky domestic chores... :blah: :applouse: .......

My my in this new age world of being politically and socially correct your statement would be determined as very condescending...... I think the Human Relations Department wants to have a talk with you.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 08:25 AM

[QUOTE=ROBERT YOUNG;271049]

My my in this new age world of being politically and socially correct your statement would be determined as very condescending...... I think the Human Relations Department wants to have a talk with you.

Ha ha ha.
Bravo.

Only the best of Health, Happiness and Peace to you and yours.
Robert

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 08:34 AM

Robert,

Those figures for salary I took from the financials. We know Ms. L. is here 24/7, personally I would be asking for Nick to increase her salary, with quarterly dividends, bonus, and hardship pay for putting up with the likes of me and a few others. ;) :)

Thats the problem today, everyone is politically correct, doesn't have a sense of homour and take anything meant as fun as an insult.

Is it politically correct to wish everyone a happy new year or would it be politically un-correct to those who are not having a happy new year or who wish to not have a happy new year? That is the question. ;)

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 09:12 AM

[QUOTE=Robert Sheppard;271048]Naaaa, I'm just a Home Inspector with an actual background in construction......33 years. But I understand your thought process.....kinda.

Happy you do. I am still trying to figure it all out for myself. Ha ha ha...:laugh:

My take on it, you were presented opportunity, working construction as a professional, and did so as a professional. So happy everything worked out. Individuals like yourself are assets to the industry.

Some are forced to work with/for companies that do not have the client's or employer's best interest in mind until some else comes along.

Must be very rewarding. Feel proud to be privileged.
The interaction between defendant and plaintiff orchestrated for the courts would be truly a dream come true for someone like myself.
Been there several times and was unprepared at first.
If you have any links as to where I can obtain information or training I would be greatful.
All the best, Robert.

Robert, in all fairness, colleagues were to discus, ASHI VS InterNACHI.
I think the conversation should have been steered on comparatives. Not trying to demote Lisa's message.
She offered her evidence. It would have been nice to see comparative examples.

As for you stating I have just conversed with, "one of the best Home Inspectors in the world."
We are judged by our peers.
To further that thought, and having only meet you on this MB, I hope the rest of the court experts conduct themselves professionally on open MB. Be a shame if they acted as you have.
I think it would be wise to apologize to Lisa to retain your good name. Nothing wrong telling someone you are sorry.

Happy New Year.
Wishing you only the best.
Robert Young. 3.5 decades in residential and commercial building and restriction trades. Most trade facets.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In collaboration with, would be more defining, Garry. I have educated with other home inspection educators and work the trades over 3.5 decades, including my own "small" exterior maintenance company.
I used the term "maintenance" to avoid government interference and tax grabbing but paid men union scale by cheque with everyone in the books and worked with hydro, natural gas and submitted and had pains to municipalities for approval. I did everything by the book.

Happy New Years!
Only the best to you and yours!
Robert

Are you for real?

Is it April 1st yet...........?

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 09:17 AM

[QUOTE=ROBERT YOUNG;271055]

Are you for real?

Is it April 1st yet...........?

One thing I like about pompous individuals,Hmmm...I will tell you when it comes to me.

Best In The world.
Is it April 1st yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?
Does anyone have any comparisons besides Lisa?
A simple yes or no will do.

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 09:17 AM

Robert Sheppard wrote in part:

Without even knowing it, you have had a conversation with one of the best Home Inspectors in the world right here on this very forum.....would you know who?

Robert you da man! Glad you came on this forum, its always enlightening to read objective thinking! Not many of us here that are actual home inspectors with court recognition as experts in construction and/or home inspections. What a breath of fresh air. Critical thinking, not taking everything construed to be accurate as accurate. Bravo! :first: :clap2:

Would you happen to know if the courts state side recognize home inspectors as experts who have InterNachi qualifications as opposed to an inspector with ASHI membership since qualifications for entry are vastly different?

Thank you.

Happy New Year!

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 09:17 AM

[QUOTE=Robert Sheppard;271056]

One thing I like about pompous individuals,Hmmm...I will tell you when it comes to me.

Best In The world.
Is it April 1st yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Which home inspection association should I join? ASHI or InterNACHI?
Does anyone have any comparisons besides Lisa?
A simple yes or no will do.

I can offer you both this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 09:26 AM

Robert Sheppard wrote in part:

Robert you da man! Glad you came on this forum, its always enlightening to read objective thinking! Not many of us here that are actual home inspectors with court recognition as experts in construction and/or home inspections. What a breath of fresh air. Critical thinking, not taking everything construed to be accurate as accurate. Bravo! :first: :clap2:

Would you happen to know if the courts state side recognize home inspectors as experts who have InterNachi qualifications as opposed to an inspector with ASHI membership since qualifications for entry are vastly different?

Thank you.

Happy New Year!

No idea....but I do know that there was a recent forum topic on the inachi site that stated home inspectors are generalists and not experts......funny stuff.

The "expert" moniker is specific to each case, you must first be deemed an expert in that specific case. It's not what you think, lots of sitting and waiting followed by intense scrutiny that is often times both insulting and demeaning. But that's the game....

If you do not have a background in construction....don't even attempt it. I have had contractors and engineers refuted and even thrown out of the courtroom, and I only have a Home Inspectors license.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 09:34 AM

Robert Sheppard wrote in part:

Robert you da man! Glad you came on this forum, its always enlightening to read objective thinking! Not many of us here that are actual home inspectors with court recognition as experts in construction and/or home inspections. What a breath of fresh air. Critical thinking, not taking everything construed to be accurate as accurate. Bravo! :first: :clap2:

Would you happen to know if the courts state side recognize home inspectors as experts who have InterNachi qualifications as opposed to an inspector with ASHI membership since qualifications for entry are vastly different?

Thank you.

Happy New Year!

Raymond. I am confused why such an critical thinker and expert witness for the courts would allow himself to be personally critiqued on an open message board.

As well, I have seen BOD act better in public, Claude Lawrence for one, and think more objectively while being rational and without emotion... Hmm?

1: Objective opinion: intent upon or dealing with things, external to the mind, rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.
2: Objectivity means staying in touch with the facts.

Hope that helps.
Best.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 09:55 AM

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 10:00 AM

Raymond. I am confused why such an critical thinker and expert witness for the courts would allow himself to be personally critiqued on an open message board.

As well, I have seen BOD act better in public, Claude Lawrence for one, and think more objectively while being rational and without emotion... Hmm?

1: Objective opinion: intent upon or dealing with things, external to the mind, rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.
2: Objectivity means staying in touch with the facts.

Hope that helps.
Best.

Robert,

How am I being critiqued? I am asking questions of information posted that raises more questions.

Having read all of Robert Sheppards comment you might also want to ask him about his critiques and response to Lisa.

Thus far I think this forum has been very civil with a generous amount of humour thrown in to ensure its not what you seem to think it is. I see nothing I have posted that would be held against me in future legal matters. If you know something I don't please share, since you have been around awhile and I respect your comments.

I'll tout my own horn here, something I don't like to do, but I have never ever experienced defeat in assisting those who come to me for help vis-a-vis being drawn into a law suit. The last one was a home inspector with WETT certification, wherein a fire resulted in the house burning down. The inspector was named as a party in the suit as having been negligent in carrying out his duties. The report was prepared for the first party and was fully documented on findings and limitations. Subsequent purchasers came along, and relied on the report. The house burned down, no fault of the inspector but we know how a shot gun approach works.

Subsequently the inspector came to me seeking guidance. I coached him and helped him write and put together his defence statement to the claim.

Inspector went to pre-discovery wherein there were other parties named in the suit including the title company, the realestate agent, the previous home owners, and the WETT inspector and their lawyers.

Upon presentation of the defences statement all indexed and tabbed in a binder the lawyers look it all over. They asked who helped him with his statement. He explained to the parties. At which point they called a recess. The lawyers came back into the room and expounded how well the defence statement was written and presented and where most impressed. Upon saying this the lawyers all agreed right then and there the inspector should be dropped from the suit.

There have been other instances where others have sought my help. This includes home owners and and inspectors and one case dealing with Construction Lien Act. I have succeed in defeating those suits as well by quoting case law and other info I have gleaned through extensive reading and experience from a previous life dealing with the courts. All those were settled out of court favouring my clients with the exception of the Construction Lien which went to court and the contractor had his amount owing reduced and the homeowner had their amounts reduced. I would say I have a very good success rate. ;)

Best,

PS. I was saddened to learn that an individual on your home forum wished I would die along with someone else. But I let sleeping dogs be.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 10:04 AM

No idea....but I do know that there was a recent forum topic on the inachi site that stated home inspectors are generalists and not experts......funny stuff.

The "expert" moniker is specific to each case, you must first be deemed an expert in that specific case. It's not what you think, lots of sitting and waiting followed by intense scrutiny that is often times both insulting and demeaning. But that's the game....

If you do not have a background in construction....don't even attempt it. I have had contractors and engineers refuted and even thrown out of the courtroom, and I only have a Home Inspectors license.

Honest answer.
Refreshing.

To bad you expertise is dishing out poor information on associations.
I highly recommend them and so do provinces.

From InterNACHI: Are you an inspector who wants to expand his business by giving testimony in court cases as an expert witness? Put your expertise to use and get paid for it. Click here to read “Inspectors as Expert Witnesses.”

RAYMOND, Guessing is not the best way to inform oneself. InterNACHI offers inspectors a lot of ancillary services. Did I mention they are free?

I have been expert witness on 2 occasions. Been in the courts 6 times as expert or witness.
As expressed, I was not prepared the first time by providing the courts with my CV and work related background when being presented as expert witness.
The first question asked by the opposing legal team is, "are you an engineer, what expertise do you have pertaining to this case?"

Two weeks ago a past client from 3 years suing the vendor.
I was called as witness. My testimony ended what could have been several more days in court as expressed by the judge as she wrapped up the case to my clients surprise.

I agree it is challenging, but if you are prepared in that specific field or component, it can be an enjoyable learning experience. It's like a good game of chess or bridge so to speak and the lawyer must pay attention.

As for refuting contractors or engineers, they did not come prepared and again it is topic specific. Anyone can make a mistake by commenting on something haphazardly because they think their title will win over the courts. It does not work that way most times. Be prepared to sharpen your pencil by doing research.

Best.

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 10:09 AM

Robert Sheppard,

Thank you for the link. Thank you. Thank you. How true. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 10:25 AM

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 10:53 AM

Thank you Raymond.
I will review Deputy Judge Lyon Gilbert long trial and take notes.

Raymond, Robert and InspectionNews colleagues.
Please excuse me if I misread or misunderstood posts.

Happy New Year's.
All The very Best.
Robert

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 10:56 AM

Robert,

If you apologize one more time, I'm going to slap you silly with a wet noodle. :sorry: ha ha.

Best of the New Year!

Lisa Endza

12-31-2016, 11:05 AM

ICC Preferred Education Provider". I don't even see inacho listed as a Preferred ProviderWell, that never stopped me from proving you wrong. See attached screenshot:
33178
Also, go here: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

- - - Updated - - -

Inacho is the largest "trade association" now?Has been for years. We're obviously talking home inspection trade associations.

NAHB is listed as a "trade association NAHB is not an inspection trade association.

How many members does inacho have again....remind me.....?Our membership numbers aren't touched by human hands anymore and haven't been for years. If you become a due-paying member you are added to this chart instantly. It updates in live-time. If you stop paying your dues, you are automatically removed from InterNACHI's membership by the computer systems and you are subtracted from this chart instantly. Again, it updates in live-time. InterNACHI Membership Stats - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachi-stats)

InterNACHI has about 17,000 North American members.

Here is an interactive cluster map to see generally where they are located: https://www.nachi.org/clustered-map.htm

ASHI has been around since 1976, 14 years before inacho was even a thought, and they maintained the largest membership for how many years before inacho? I don't know. And I don't know what it feels like to have a 14-year head start in a race and still lose. It must feel pretty horrible I would imagine.

Exactly how many years have you been the largest "trade association"? At least 3 years according to ASHI. I'm just going off of what ASHI's own legal counsel says in this letter:

https://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf (http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf)

giving time for Lisa to comb hair, do nails, pick out clothes for the day and not to mention like most women a nice pair of shoes .... and matching purse, with matching change purse/wallet, and some trinket jewelry and some nice cologne. Oh and not us not forget she still has to do the other chores associated with women, you know cooking, cleaning those pesky domestic chores...And between "doing my nails" and "other chores associated with women" I proved you wrong on all counts... publicly. You know we women are good at multitasking.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 11:16 AM

We don't generate quarterly financial statements because we have no stockholders. Again, InterNACHI isn't owned. We do publish publicly our 990 annual statements.

They are at the bottom of that page I gave you. Next to the last link from the bottom: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

No, they don't. Home inspectors have a different skill set than what is needed to make decisions about governing an international trade association. Pro Bowl NFL players likely don't have the skill set necessary to operate a football stadium either. ASHI and NAHI had large governing boards full of home inspectors and it didn't work out very well for them, did it? Besides, every member votes every year with his/her feet and dues. Each year, we have to work hard to win that vote and those dues. InterNACHI is proud to have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) in all of human history.

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. We certainly educate our members. We have hundreds of free courses: Free Inspector Training and Education Courses - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/education) approved by hundreds of government agencies: InterNACHI's inspection courses and exams are the most recognized, approved and accredited in the inspection industry. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/approved) And this year, we made Free Live, Online Classes for Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.tv) free to all inspectors, not just members. So we definitely provide what we agreed to provide our members. So we're perfectly free to offer more if we choose. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

InterNACHI essentially delivers each member an entire 24/7 pizza shop. I'm quite certain that these people: Good people working every day to help your inspection business succeed. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/staff) produce more each day than any member can consume.

www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm (http://www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm) has a lot of links describing what is going on at InterNACHI. www.nachi.org/benefits (http://www.nachi.org/benefits) has a lot of links to our membership benefits.

That does say "in any industry", does it not? It also says "any trade association"......not "home inspection" trade association.

Yes?

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 11:26 AM

Lisa Endza

12-31-2016, 11:26 AM

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 11:36 AM

Yes, when I say "association" I am over, over obviously referring to inspection associations. Note the article in post #1 which is the topic of this thread. I am over, over obviously not referring to the NRA or NAMBLA.

And when I say "inspection" I am over, over obviously not referring to inspections of luggage performed by the TSA.

How would I know you are referring to home inspection associations when you said, and I quote "IN ANY INDUSTRY". You're not even a licensed home inspector.

Actually, your not a licensed anything in this industry.

......and it's "over, over, obvious"

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, when I say "association" I am over, over obviously referring to inspection associations. Note the article in post #1 which is the topic of this thread. I am over, over obviously not referring to the NRA or NAMBLA.

And when I say "inspection" I am over, over obviously not referring to inspections of luggage performed by the TSA.

"IN ANY INDUSTRY"

Those are your words, are they not?

Lisa Endza

12-31-2016, 11:38 AM

As I said, the American Wood Council has 71:InterNACHI offers 70 ICC-approved courses, so if you only count the number of courses we divided our ICC-approved training into, we are #2. But that's silly because InterNACHI's courses are so huge and could easily be spilt up into many more.

If you correctly count number of hours of training ICC approved, InterNACHI is BY FAR the largest provider of ICC-approved courses: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm No other provider even comes close.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 11:44 AM

Well, that never stopped me from proving you wrong. See attached screenshot:
33178
Also, go here: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

- - - Updated - - -

Has been for years. We're obviously talking home inspection trade associations.

NAHB is not an inspection trade association.

Our membership numbers aren't touched by human hands anymore and haven't been for years. If you become a due-paying member you are added to this chart instantly. It updates in live-time. If you stop paying your dues, you are automatically removed from InterNACHI's membership by the computer systems and you are subtracted from this chart instantly. Again, it updates in live-time. InterNACHI Membership Stats - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachi-stats)

InterNACHI has about 17,000 North American members.

Here is an interactive cluster map to see generally where they are located: https://www.nachi.org/clustered-map.htm

I don't know. And I don't know what it feels like to have a 14-year head start in a race and still lose. It must feel pretty horrible I would imagine.

At least 3 years according to ASHI. I'm just going off of what ASHI's own legal counsel says in this letter:

https://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf (http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf)

[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]And between "doing my nails" and "other chores associated with women" I proved you wrong on all counts... publicly. You know we women are good at multitasking.

LOL.......

- - - Updated - - -

InterNACHI offers 70 ICC-approved courses, so if you only count the number of courses we divided our ICC-approved training into, we are #2. But that's silly because InterNACHI's courses are so huge and could easily be spilt up into many more.

If you correctly count number of hours of training ICC approved, InterNACHI is BY FAR the largest provider of ICC-approved courses: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm No other provider even comes close.

Being as the AWC could do the same, split the courses up, your point is invalid.

You were/are wrong.....you are #2, not #1.......it's that simple. I used your own method and web link to show you were wrong.

In the overall context of things, it's not that big an issue.....just admit you were wrong and we can all move on....

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 11:49 AM

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 11:50 AM

Lisa wrote in part:

And between "doing my nails" and "other chores associated with women" I proved you wrong on all counts... publicly. You know we women are good at multitasking.

Lisa, I am sorry if you took offence to my sexist remarks. I am really a nice guy. At times using my fork tongue gets in the way of trying to be humorous to a mixed crowd. ... And only because I am not a politically correct sorta guy.

It might also help if I told you I like to multi task too. Between inspections I vacuum, do dishes, cut my nails, brush my teeth and comb my hair, run a household, cut the grass take out the trash, and run a business, amongst other manly endeavours. See we do have something in common. :) :)

Thank you for your patience in putting up with me. That alone is worth a pay increase for you. Right Nick?

All the best to you in the New Year Lisa.

Good points Robert Sheppard.

Lisa Endza

12-31-2016, 11:51 AM

Here is what you said:

the NAHB is listed as a "trade association with over 140,000 members". How many members does inacho have again....remind me.....? You were showing that there are other associations larger than InterNACHI.

You then went to quote me as if I had claimed InterNACHI was larger than any other association in "any other industry"

Here is what you said:

"IN ANY INDUSTRY"

Those are your words, are they not?

I hate to do this to you Robert because I know you take pride in being a home inspector and are paid to notice things and be accurate, but you forced me to: I never said InterNACHI was the largest association "IN ANY INDUSTRY." I'm sorry to have to have publicly embarrassed you again.

Here is my exact quote pulled from the post I made yesterday:

InterNACHI is proud to have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) in all of human history.

Proving you wrong is interfering with me completing my "chores associated with women." Gotta run.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 12:02 PM

Here is what you said:

You were showing that there are other associations larger than InterNACHI.

You then went to quote me as if I had claimed InterNACHI was larger than any other association in "any other industry"

Here is what you said:

I hate to do this to you Robert because I know you take pride in being a home inspector and are paid to notice things and be accurate, but you forced me to: I never said InterNACHI was the largest association "IN ANY INDUSTRY." I'm sorry to have to have publicly embarrassed you again.

Here is my exact quote pulled from the post I made yesterday:

Proving you wrong is interfering with me completing my "chores associated with women." Gotta run.

LOL......just admit you were wrong so we can all move on. Honestly, do you not think people are capable of using the link you provided to show that in fact you are #2 and not #1? How can anyone believe anything you say when you are so easily proven wrong?

You are not the largest trade association, you do not have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) or human history, and you are #2 not #1 on ICC approved courses behind the AWC........and, you have been the largest "home inspection" trade association for only 3 years. That's hardly the test of time for any successful association or business, it's barely an antibiotic cycle.

You are not an industry professional Lisa, you need to understand that.

p.s. I think you are confusing me with Raymond on the sexist remarks.

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 01:28 PM

To both Roberts

For your delectation from a Canadian court pov. Expert Witness

CanLII - 2013 ONSC 6989 (CanLII) (http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2013/2013onsc6989/2013onsc6989.html?searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAdUGF1bCBXaW xzb24gKGhvbWUgaW5zcGVjdGlvbikAAAAAAQ&resultIndex=1)
Interesting case.

[32] The Appellant at trial presented an expert witness, in the person of Mr. Paul Wilson, to speak to that main issue of a standard of inspection of roofs by which the Appellant’s conduct during his inspection of the home in question could be measured or judged.
I find it unusual a fellow OAHI RHI, Paul Wilson, a name that rings a bell from years back, is allowed to be expert witness in the first place.

[34] For the reasons given by the Deputy Judge he rejected the evidence of Mr. Wilson. At page 29 of his decision the Deputy Judge stated that he found the evidence of Mr. Wilson to be “self-serving given for the express purpose of legitimating CAHPI and OAHI as the only legitimate representatives of the industry. He did not find Mr. Wilson’s evidence as to what standard should be followed to be of any help to the Court.

Good read.

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 02:03 PM

Yes but further on ...

[66]** ** ** * I can take no issue with the Deputy Judge’s prerogative in deciding what evidence to accept or reject.* In this task he is to be accorded appropriate deference.** For the reasons given by him he rejected the evidence of the Appellant and his expert evidence Mr. Wilson.* There is no question that there are aspects of the testimony of these two witnesses that can be characterized as “problematic”.

[67]** ** ** * Nonetheless, a finding that a witness’s evidence is “self-serving” is a strong statement and ought to be supported by specific reference to the evidence. This was not done by the Deputy Judge.* Nor can my examination of the Appellant’s evidence and that of Mr. Wilson persuade me of that apprehension of their evidence.* The testimonies of the Applicant and of Mr. Wilson were clearly in support of a particular conclusion, namely that the standard to be applied to the facts of the case ought to be those endorsed by the OAHI and the CAHPI.* Both these witnesses had an association with these organizations.* They were testifying for one side of this litigation as were the witnesses presented by the Respondents.* This alone, in my view, does not reasonably lead to the conclusion that their evidence is “self-serving”.

[68]** ** ** * The position advanced by the Appellant at the trial has found favour with other courts which extends beyond the individual interests of the Appellant in this case. As counsel for the Appellant submitted the standard advanced by the witnesses for the Appellant, namely that in certain circumstances visual home inspections are an acceptable standard to be imposed has been* raised and accepted in other cases. (See Brownjohn v. Ramsay, [2003] B.C.J. No. 43 (Prov. Ct.); Rayne v. Martin, supra, and Biggs v. Harris (c.o.b. Harris Homes Inspections), [1999] O.J. No. 4831 (S.C.J).* The Deputy Judge does not seem to have given any consideration to this.*

Lisa Endza

12-31-2016, 02:11 PM

and, you have been the largest "home inspection" trade association for only 3 years. Wrong again. InterNACHI isn't larger on the day when ASHI finally concedes so. That's silly.

InterNACHI has been larger than ASHI for almost a decade. The evidence presented to ASHI in 2012 (more than 4 years ago) was so overwhelming and indisputable that InterNACHI was many times larger than ASHI, that even ASHI's legal counsel conceded it in writing in April of 2013. Read the letter from ASHI's attorney: https://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf

But size doesn't matter honey (I'm sure you've been told this before ;) ). What matters to individual members is membership benefits. Scroll baby scroll... Which Home Inspection Association Should I Join? (http://www.joinhomeinspectionassociation.com/)

Gotta run. Getting my nails done for New Years.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 02:56 PM

Well, that never stopped me from proving you wrong. See attached screenshot:
33178
Also, go here: https://www.nachi.org/icc-safe-international-code-council-training-educational-courses.htm

- - - Updated - - -

Has been for years. We're obviously talking home inspection trade associations.

NAHB is not an inspection trade association.

Our membership numbers aren't touched by human hands anymore and haven't been for years. If you become a due-paying member you are added to this chart instantly. It updates in live-time. If you stop paying your dues, you are automatically removed from InterNACHI's membership by the computer systems and you are subtracted from this chart instantly. Again, it updates in live-time. InterNACHI Membership Stats - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachi-stats)

InterNACHI has about 17,000 North American members.

Here is an interactive cluster map to see generally where they are located: https://www.nachi.org/clustered-map.htm

I don't know. And I don't know what it feels like to have a 14-year head start in a race and still lose. It must feel pretty horrible I would imagine.

At least 3 years according to ASHI. I'm just going off of what ASHI's own legal counsel says in this letter:

https://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf (http://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf)

[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]And between "doing my nails" and "other chores associated with women" I proved you wrong on all counts... publicly. You know we women are good at multitasking.

I didn't say that.....you did. My statement merely reflected the information you sourced.

Are you providing non-credible information about the industry again Lisa? Is this like the 70 approved ICC courses? Have you no shame?

:pop2:

Raymond Wand

12-31-2016, 03:11 PM

Lisa

If you haven't finished your nails (ha ha only kidding) can you kindly provide some links to how complaints are handled who is the so-called SOP Committee? If you can't do it, after all its New Years Eve, I understand.

Catch ya later.

Thank you.

Happy New Year.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 03:13 PM

We don't generate quarterly financial statements because we have no stockholders. Again, InterNACHI isn't owned. We do publish publicly our 990 annual statements.

They are at the bottom of that page I gave you. Next to the last link from the bottom: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

No, they don't. Home inspectors have a different skill set than what is needed to make decisions about governing an international trade association. Pro Bowl NFL players likely don't have the skill set necessary to operate a football stadium either. ASHI and NAHI had large governing boards full of home inspectors and it didn't work out very well for them, did it? Besides, every member votes every year with his/her feet and dues. Each year, we have to work hard to win that vote and those dues. InterNACHI is proud to have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) in all of human history.

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. We certainly educate our members. We have hundreds of free courses: Free Inspector Training and Education Courses - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/education) approved by hundreds of government agencies: InterNACHI's inspection courses and exams are the most recognized, approved and accredited in the inspection industry. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/approved) And this year, we made Free Live, Online Classes for Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.tv) free to all inspectors, not just members. So we definitely provide what we agreed to provide our members. So we're perfectly free to offer more if we choose. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

InterNACHI essentially delivers each member an entire 24/7 pizza shop. I'm quite certain that these people: Good people working every day to help your inspection business succeed. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/staff) produce more each day than any member can consume.

www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm (http://www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm) has a lot of links describing what is going on at InterNACHI. www.nachi.org/benefits (http://www.nachi.org/benefits) has a lot of links to our membership benefits.

Shall we tackle this one now?

Before we get started, I want you to remember something. I was on the Board of Directors for a Home Inspection Association, I was also their Legislative Chairman.

:pop2:

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 03:19 PM

We don't generate quarterly financial statements because we have no stockholders. Again, InterNACHI isn't owned. We do publish publicly our 990 annual statements.

They are at the bottom of that page I gave you. Next to the last link from the bottom: The International Association of Certified Home Inspector, Inc.'s (InterNACHI) annual tax exempt status. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/nachitax)

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

No, they don't. Home inspectors have a different skill set than what is needed to make decisions about governing an international trade association. Pro Bowl NFL players likely don't have the skill set necessary to operate a football stadium either. ASHI and NAHI had large governing boards full of home inspectors and it didn't work out very well for them, did it? Besides, every member votes every year with his/her feet and dues. Each year, we have to work hard to win that vote and those dues. InterNACHI is proud to have the highest renewal rate of any trade association (in any industry) in all of human history.

Correct. As long as we do what we agree to do for our members, we are perfectly free to do more. We certainly educate our members. We have hundreds of free courses: Free Inspector Training and Education Courses - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/education) approved by hundreds of government agencies: InterNACHI's inspection courses and exams are the most recognized, approved and accredited in the inspection industry. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/approved) And this year, we made Free Live, Online Classes for Home Inspectors (http://www.nachi.tv) free to all inspectors, not just members. So we definitely provide what we agreed to provide our members. So we're perfectly free to offer more if we choose. If you agree to deliver someone a medium pizza, you are free to instead deliver a large pizza.

InterNACHI essentially delivers each member an entire 24/7 pizza shop. I'm quite certain that these people: Good people working every day to help your inspection business succeed. - InterNACHI (http://www.nachi.org/staff) produce more each day than any member can consume.

www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm (http://www.nachi.org/whats_new.htm) has a lot of links describing what is going on at InterNACHI. www.nachi.org/benefits (http://www.nachi.org/benefits) has a lot of links to our membership benefits.

.......I almost forgot, you're 0 for 2 now.

1. Quote: "I found the largest provider of ICC courses. They have more ICC courses than any other provider"

2. "You do realize that most defects found by home inspectors are on systems and components installed to code. For example, most plumbing leaks occur in plumbing that is up to code"

Jerry Peck

12-31-2016, 03:49 PM

.......I almost forgot, you're 0 for 2 now.

1. Quote: "I found the largest provider of ICC courses. They have more ICC courses than any other provider"

2. "You do realize that most defects found by home inspectors are on systems and components installed to code. For example, most plumbing leaks occur in plumbing that is up to code"

ALL .. I repeat ... ALL ... plumbing leaks are code violations.

Any leaks in reasonably new plumbing is a code violation of its construction.

Any leaks in old plumbing is a code violation of any property maintenance code.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 04:04 PM

ALL .. I repeat ... ALL ... plumbing leaks are code violations.

Any leaks in reasonably new plumbing is a code violation of its construction.

Any leaks in old plumbing is a code violation of any property maintenance code.

When the best Home inspector in the business is telling you something, you may want to listen.....

:pop2:

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 04:13 PM

When the best Home inspector in the business is telling you something, you may want to listen.....

:pop2:

If it is an installation error provides a leak by not following "the manufacturer's installation recommendation," is that considered not following code?

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 04:18 PM

If it is an installation error provides a leak by not following "the manufacturer's installation recommendation," is that considered not following code?

Please tell me you are being sarcastic?

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 04:24 PM

Wrong again. InterNACHI isn't larger on the day when ASHI finally concedes so. That's silly.

InterNACHI has been larger than ASHI for almost a decade. The evidence presented to ASHI in 2012 (more than 4 years ago) was so overwhelming and indisputable that InterNACHI was many times larger than ASHI, that even ASHI's legal counsel conceded it in writing in April of 2013. Read the letter from ASHI's attorney: https://www.nachi.org/documents2012/InterNACHI-largest-inspection-association.pdf

But size doesn't matter honey (I'm sure you've been told this before ;) ). What matters to individual members is membership benefits. Scroll baby scroll... Which Home Inspection Association Should I Join? (http://www.joinhomeinspectionassociation.com/)

Gotta run. Getting my nails done for New Years.

Robert S. you must admit, when a lady is spot on, she's spot on!

Ha ha ha.
Lisa, I am looking at you in a whole new light right now.
My kinda woman.

Ray, Give That Wet Noodle To Lisa Post Haste!!!
Baby am I ready.
Let the whippen games begin!;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please tell me you are being sarcastic?

No sir. Define what code provides please.
As well, what manufacturer's provide as warranties for there products.

Robert Sheppard

12-31-2016, 04:36 PM

Robert S. you must admit, when a lady is spot on, she's spot on!

Ha ha ha.
Lisa, I am looking at you in a whole new light right now.
My kinda woman.

Ray, Give That Wet Noodle To Lisa Post Haste!!!
Baby am I ready.
Let the whippen games begin!;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No sir. Define what code provides please.
As well, what manufacturer's provide as warranties for there products.

Manufacturer's installation instruction are enforceable extensions of the Building Code. How can you not know this?

R106.1.2 Manufacturer’s installation instructions. Manufacturer’s installation instructions, as required by this code, shall be available on the job site at the time of inspection.

Throughout the code, it directs that materials or equipment be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions. An example is the installation of modified bitumen roofing, as set forth in Section R905.11.3. The code recognizes that the manufacturer can best relate the specific installation requirements applicable to its specific product. Where the code mandates that the manufacturer’s installation instructions be followed, those instructions must be available at the job site. In this way, both the installers and inspector are able to see that the directives of the manufacturer are being followed.

Jerry Peck

12-31-2016, 05:35 PM

If it is an installation error provides a leak by not following "the manufacturer's installation recommendation," is that considered not following code?

Read P2503 - what does it say the plumbing system needs to be?

"leak free"

ROBERT YOUNG

12-31-2016, 06:58 PM

Thank you Robert S.
I did not know that.
I will try to refer to an article I found tomorrow.

Now where Lisa with that wet noodle Ray gave her:-)

ROBERT YOUNG

01-01-2017, 05:58 AM

"Happy News!"everyone at Inspection news.
Sorry for shouting if you have a hangover. Ops.

ROBERT YOUNG

01-01-2017, 06:20 AM

Hey look mom I can become certified in as little as 5 days. God help the public.

https://www.nachi.org/school/event/become-a-certified-home-inspector/

Better post the fee calculator here - soothe the natives.
https://www.nachi.org/forum/f48/cheap-inspectors-117889/

Raymond, to be fair to the statement, "become certified in as little as 5 days." if I am not mistaken Claude Lawrence was a professor at a school that did the exact same thing. wasn't it Humber College.
Moreover, I think he had the title teacher as his official capacity until an Ontario grandfathering clause kicked in with all teachers being designated professors.

You use to use that "personally well developed narrative" directed at him if I am not mistaken. He use to explain the facts behind the course if I remember correctly. Moreover, look how he is recognised now throughout Canada. Must be something to hands on training. As well, become certified in as little as 5 days does not denote, will be a certified in as little as 5 days.

I think Robert S. summed it up well saying, construction experience is an asset and I agree.

Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda at least allow the providers and professors a/the chance to explain the curriculum and prerequisites involved for certifications before say, "God help the public." I think the correct term to use would be the home purchasing consumer as well.

ROBERT YOUNG

01-01-2017, 07:34 AM

Manufacturer's installation instruction are enforceable extensions of the Building Code. How can you not know this.
???
For one, I am not a building code inspector or an authority having jurisdiction, AHJ.
Secondly, I do not work for Building Code enforcement officials in any capacity.
This work is generally carried out by municipal building departments.
As well, the SoP I follow excludes this type of assessment process unless provisions are made within the PIA. As well, the client must request and agreeing to those provision in written form.
Hope that helps.

I am a home inspector to which you told Lisa you were not.
I belong to the largest home inspection association in North America, to which you appear to be disgruntled with along with Raymond Wand and several others here at InspectionNews.
Not many thank goodness.
Robert S. I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

The certification process will play an import role in North America in the very near future.
Millions of manufacturing sector workers all over North America lost good paying jobs due to the global economy. The US and Canadian governments are well aware of this.
Just infrastructure building, modifying and modernizing can stabilize the economy.
Infrastructure will be one of the leading economic forces creating a stronger more robust middle class with good paying jobs.

Individuals can educate and pass examines from the comfort of their home. Provider can develop forms of proctoring. Home monitoring for a fee, libraries or other municipal centers are right around the corner.

Robert, technology and marketing is here to stay as you well know being the Best Home Inspector in the World. That's even if you do not inspect home, per say...
We are no longer restricted to colleges and universities for education and monitoring.
The home inspection cottage industry is expanding in Canada and with it come individuals willing to educate, work for, or attempt to become a successful home inspection business.
Marketing is all part of the process.
Do not get mad at evolution.
Be happy you have a job and wish everyone the very best success they can obtain.

Hope that helps.
Best.
Robert.

Claude Lawrenson

01-01-2017, 08:14 AM

Raymond, to be fair to the statement, "become certified in as little as 5 days." if I am not mistaken Claude Lawrence was a professor at a school that did the exact same thing. wasn't it Humber College.
Moreover, I think he had the title teacher as his official capacity until an Ontario grandfathering clause kicked in with all teachers being designated professors.

You use to use that "personally well developed narrative" directed at him if I am not mistaken. He use to explain the facts behind the course if I remember correctly. Moreover, look how he is recognised now throughout Canada. Must be something to hands on training. As well, become certified in as little as 5 days does not denote, will be a certified in as little as 5 days.

I think Robert S. summed it up well saying, construction experience is an asset and I agree.

Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda at least allow the providers and professors a/the chance to explain the curriculum and prerequisites involved for certifications before say, "God help the public." I think the correct term to use would be the home purchasing consumer as well.

Robert Y - again, it's unfortunate that you continue to make assumptions.

I taught for over 25 years as a Professor of Architecture in the St. Clair College School of Engineering. I actually started at the college in 1988 and prior to that was a supply teacher in local high schools for tech programs. In the college I was never a teacher that rolled over to be a professor. Education and earned qualifications still count in the Ontario College system. Educators are never "grandfathered" in a provincial education system, one must attend a formal education and training system. I attended several universities including one that specifically focused on "adult education" and additionally successfully completed mandatory college training programs. So I hope that clarifies what you claim.

So wherever, or by whoever you got that load of rubbish about teacher to professor status, is certainly not the case. So I certainly find it unprofessional to see your statement to undermine my credibility.

Next regarding teaching for Humber College in Ontario. The company I am a business partner with created and contracted with the college to provide the very first online home inspection program in Ontario. It certainly was a far cry from being a 5 day program. It never was. It was over 480 hours in duration to complete the program. It involved 7 courses and each course averaged 40 to 80 hours. Even today our education, now updated is recognized in several other provinces including most recent licensing requirements for the Province of BC.

Regarding hands-on-training, we offer mentoring or what some call field supervised training. Even within courses other means of delivery enhance the practical experience through a variety of adult training methodologies.

Certainly 5 days of training is a good basic start, but a far stretch to gain the required depth of knowledge to be a "professional". Further to that I'm a firm believer in accountability and rigor, which includes proctored exams and peer evaluations.

So you are truly way off base on your facts regarding me, or any training that I have been involved with. Furthermore I suggest that you get your facts straight and do your research in earnest before making posting.

ROBERT YOUNG

01-01-2017, 08:36 AM

Robert Y - again, it's unfortunate that you continue to make assumptions.

I taught for over 25 years as a Professor of Architecture in the St. Clair College School of Engineering. I actually started at the college in 1988 and prior to that was a supply teacher in local high schools for tech programs. In the college I was never a teacher that rolled over to be a professor. Education and earned qualifications still count in the Ontario College system. Educators are never "grandfathered" in a provincial education system, one must attend a formal education and training system. I attended several universities including one that specifically focused on "adult education" and additionally successfully completed mandatory college training programs. So I hope that clarifies what you claim.

So wherever, or by whoever you got that load of rubbish about teacher to professor status, is certainly not the case. So I certainly find it unprofessional to see your statement to undermine my credibility.

Next regarding teaching for Humber College in Ontario. The company I am a business partner with created and contracted with the college to provide the very first online home inspection program in Ontario. It certainly was a far cry from being a 5 day program. It never was. It was over 480 hours in duration to complete the program. It involved 7 courses and each course averaged 40 to 80 hours. Even today our education, now updated is recognized in several other provinces including most recent licensing requirements for the Province of BC.

Regarding hands-on-training, we offer mentoring or what some call field supervised training. Even within courses other means of delivery enhance the practical experience through a variety of adult training methodologies.

Certainly 5 days of training is a good basic start, but a far stretch to gain the required depth of knowledge to be a "professional". Further to that I'm a firm believer in accountability and rigor, which includes proctored exams and peer evaluations.

So you are truly way off base on your facts regarding me, or any training that I have been involved with. Furthermore I suggest that you get your facts straight and do your research in earnest before making posting.

with all due respect, I am in no way undermining your credibility. The opposite I feel.
Sorry if it appears I hurt your feelings but you should read the post again.

He use to "explain the facts" behind the course if I remember correctly. Moreover, look how he is recognised now throughout Canada.
You think I was trying to tarnish your reputation?

As well, teachers were grandfathered professors from what I understand. How does that tarnish anything.
I was supporting the credibility of professors to be able to educate individuals.

Now, if I am mistaken about you taught at Humber College, I retake that statement.
You explained yourself and do not have to be so defensive.

Live class studies, be it a week or a year is acceptable. Live training by teachers with proctored exams is a damn sight more than online classes "that are acceptable" in MOST provinces.
Hope that helps.

One last thing. You are allowed your perception of the industry Claude as well as everyone within the industry.
Look at a major home inspection players that dropped the ball due to conflicted interests I feel. You can add most associations as well.
Does not take a blind man to see all the education in the world says you are good or ethical.
Want to really make a change, be at arm's length, and lobby a separation between realtor referrals and home inspectors. That's when the real homie comes out to work off their merits ALONE and on their clients behalf...

Best.

Claude Lawrenson

01-01-2017, 09:10 AM

with all due respect, I am in no way undermining your credibility. The opposite I feel.
Sorry if it appears I hurt your feelings but you should read the post again.

He use to "explain the facts" behind the course if I remember correctly. Moreover, look how he is recognised now throughout Canada.
You think I was trying to tarnish your reputation?

As well, teachers were grandfathered professors from what I understand. How does that tarnish anything.
I was supporting the credibility of professors to be able to educate individuals.

Now, if I am mistaken about you taught at Humber College, I retake that statement.
You explained yourself and do not have to be so defensive.

Live class studies, be it a week or a year is acceptable. Live training by teachers with proctored exams is a damn sight more than online classes "that are acceptable" in MOST provinces.
Hope that helps.

One last thing. You are allowed your perception of the industry Claude as well as everyone within the industry.
Look at a major home inspection players that dropped the ball due to conflicted interests I feel. You can add most associations as well.
Does not take a blind man to see all the education in the world says you are good or ethical.
Want to really make a change, be at arm's length, and lobby a separation between realtor referrals and home inspectors. That's when the real homie comes out to work off their merits ALONE and on their clients behalf...

Best.

Robert Y - again, don't try to smooth it over. You made very incriminating statements, that are not based on fact. It does not make it right to post without realizing that false statements will likely solicit feedback or pushback.

It's no wonder you may feel picked on. Rather than shoot from the hip in cowboy mentality at what seems to be a target. I would rather choose my words wisely and be best possible to assure reasonable if not absolute accuracy in my posts, rather than make numerous posts that detract from the topic.

My point being before you mention names and make this "personal", at least be accurate in your claims or comments. I offered you facts, and that's a far cry difference from what you initially stated.

So I challenge you on your claim that "teachers were grandfathered to professors". Please provide a source not just for my gratification, but for every professor that you choose to undermine in their hard work and accomplishments to achieve that title. To me it's akin to a home inspector that claimed to hold a PHD in Home Inspection or even certified master inspectors that have come to the realization that it's mainly a marketing tool. Yes and admittedly likely most every other home inspection designation.

Again Robert S offered you an explanation and sound reasoning. Others that I consider valued have also provided statements to respond to this topical thread, but I fail to see how your initial response in which you name me personally has anything to do about which home inspection to join.

So back on topic - I belong to many associations including ASHI and InterNACHI, etc. They all have their good and bad points. Likewise it's not always about who is the biggest or proclaimed best, it's about which association model one chooses or opts not to join.

Raymond Wand

01-01-2017, 09:33 AM

ROBERT YOUNG

01-01-2017, 09:49 AM

Claude Lawrenson

01-01-2017, 10:12 AM

Claude,

Just saying; but I did not read Roberts post as putting you down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_Canada

What do you call a professor? - Macleans.ca (http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniandcollege/what-do-you-call-a-professor/)

I can remember in college the teachers were called instructors. Then one day I woke up and realized something happened overnite, and instructors somehow started referencing themselves as professors. College teachers were instructors and university instructors/teachers where always referenced as professor.

Thanks Raymond - my understanding is that he named me and associated a "5 day Humber course" that he claimed I was associated with is what I see as the "false statement". He also claimed that "teachers were grandfathered as professors".

Robert Y stated - "Raymond, to be fair to the statement, "become certified in as little as 5 days." if I am not mistaken Claude Lawrence was a professor at a school that did the exact same thing. wasn't it Humber College.
Moreover, I think he had the title teacher as his official capacity until an Ontario grandfathering clause kicked in with all teachers being designated professors.The other thing I note is the the term professor would appear again by his comment to infer that professors were simply "teachers" grandfathered by title. Again I fail to see proof to support such as statement."

Yes there are instructors in the college system as well as professors. In fact the instructor and professor titles have very distinct roles. Instructors cannot create curriculum, however they can deliver it under the guidance of a professor. Likewise a professor designs/creates, reviews and revises courses and curriculum in a program of study. The "university system" in Ontario is different when it comes to full time positions.

As I stated, I was hired in 1988 as an instructor, and by completing further education and mandatory courses within my 2 year probationary period made it to position of professor. After I took further training to become a program coordinator, which simply reduced my schedule and take on more administrative duties with students and faculty.

NOTE: there are two major categories for the person delivering education in the college system in Ontario - "instructor" or "professor". It's been that way since the beginning (creation) of the college system in Ontario since the mid-1960's.

Regarding your links - interesting thoughts about ones "personal" understanding. But never-the-less fact or simply ones belief. What about "technicians" and "support staff", chairs and deans? (None of these typically have teaching duties.) So unless one has a real understanding of the various roles and functions, has actually been in front of a college class, I can understand some misunderstandings. But than why take it to a "personal" naming me and that associated reference level?

Raymond Wand

01-01-2017, 10:31 AM

Claude,

I too was under the impression that instructors where grandfathered. (for lack of a better term).

Well know I know too! And thats a good thing.

Happy New Year.

ROBERT YOUNG

01-01-2017, 11:30 AM

Thanks Raymond - my understanding is that he named me and associated a "5 day Humber course" that he claimed I was associated with is what I see as the "false statement". He also claimed that "teachers were grandfathered as professors".

Robert Y stated - "Raymond, to be fair to the statement, "become certified in as little as 5 days." if I am not mistaken Claude Lawrence was a professor at a school that did the exact same thing. wasn't it Humber College.
Moreover, I think he had the title teacher as his official capacity until an Ontario grandfathering clause kicked in with all teachers being designated professors.The other thing I note is the the term professor would appear again by his comment to infer that professors were simply "teachers" grandfathered by title. Again I fail to see proof to support such as statement."

Yes there are instructors in the college system as well as professors. In fact the instructor and professor titles have very distinct roles. Instructors cannot create curriculum, however they can deliver it under the guidance of a professor. Likewise a professor designs/creates, reviews and revises courses and curriculum in a program of study. The "university system" in Ontario is different when it comes to full time positions.

As I stated, I was hired in 1988 as an instructor, and by completing further education and mandatory courses within my 2 year probationary period made it to position of professor. After I took further training to become a program coordinator, which simply reduced my schedule and take on more administrative duties with students and faculty.

NOTE: there are two major categories for the person delivering education in the college system in Ontario - "instructor" or "professor". It's been that way since the beginning (creation) of the college system in Ontario since the mid-1960's.

Regarding your links - interesting thoughts about ones "personal" understanding. But never-the-less fact or simply ones belief. What about "technicians" and "support staff", chairs and deans? (None of these typically have teaching duties.) So unless one has a real understanding of the various roles and functions, has actually been in front of a college class, I can understand some misunderstandings. But than why take it to a "personal" naming me and that associated reference level?

Thank you Claude. I stand corrected. Claude Lawrence was the name I was referring to. I have mistakenly associated your name and his for too many years I confess.
Ray, lend Claude that wet noodle to whip me with. That is once Lisa has finished. That's if she ever gets here.

Looks like my assumptions require corrections utilizing real understanding of the various roles and functions of the above mentioned.

Thank you for the much needed name clarification.

Being hearing impaired is truly a regrettable experience.

.